Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Antigen on April 07, 2005, 10:50:00 AM
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I don't want to dis the discussion going on under My Opinions. But the topic has changed from CCM to AA.
Any of you folks care to look over this site:
http://springcreeklodgeexperience.blogspot.com/ (http://springcreeklodgeexperience.blogspot.com/)
And comment on the similarities and differences between SCL and CCM?If you want to get together in any exclusive situation and have people love you, fine- but to hang all this desperate sociology on the idea of The Cloud-Guy who has The Big Book, who knows if you've been bad or good- and CARES about any of it- to hang it all on that, folks, is the chimpanzee part of the brain working.
--Frank Zappa, American musician
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My computer wont let me read it. Is there any way you could copy it or something so I can read what it is you are talking about?
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Really? What sort of error are you getting? It's a pretty straightforward blog page.
Anyway, here's one entry.
Discovery and Focus
When you first arrive you start to hear about seminars. The seminars are repeated every few months, and Discovery is the first one you must attend. You are required to attend the first Discovery that comes up, whether it?s your second day or your second month; this depends on the timing of your arrival. You must pass seminars to progress in the program, and to progress further up the levels. This process takes about 18 months. Since I was just waiting out my time, I never took the seminars too seriously. But most kids did, they had to, they knew they had to pass them in order to progress, and they were not easy to get through. We heard rumors of trainers failing entire seminars, every single participant. We heard the names of trainers, of their different personalities and who was the best trainer to hope for.
The first time I went to a seminar, was the first time we had got to walk outside the confines of the compound in a few months, so it was rather exciting. The seminar was held in a big wooden barn about a quarter mile down the main road. It was a very isolated location. They had us all line up outside, there was a lot of us. There were lines of port potty?s for us to use while we were waiting or during the lunch break. My first seminar was in the middle of the winter, so there was a lot of snow. There were a bunch of nametags they were handing out, and it was a very busy and confusing situation.
Our anticipation grew and we wanted to get inside the building already. They started playing music inside the building, opened the doors and told us all we must be seated before the song ended. (Years later I heard the song again, recognized it, and found out the title. It is David Lanz?s ?Cristofori?s Dream?, a piano and violin duet.) There was a rush to sit down and get quiet before the song finished. There were several dozen chairs lined up on each side of the large room. The girls were on one side, the boys on the other. Seminars were the only time we would be anywhere near the girls.
There were two big paper writing boards set up in the front, with big permanent markers ready to write. There were posters all over the walls with small phrases such as, ?There are no accidents?. It was strange, to say the least. The seminars are a whirlwind of an experience. It?s hard to explain. The guy who was in charge was David Gilcrease, in the beginning of the seminar he was randomly walking around the room making people stand up, and then verbally humiliated them in front of the large crowd. He did it to me; he makes you stand up and then proceeds to ask you questions and humiliate you based on your nervous and confused responses. For a great detailed account of what a seminar is like, please click on the link to the right, ?Breaking the Vow of Silence?.
Discovery lasted for 3 days. The first day is spent mostly humiliating everyone, and pressing people for deep dark secrets. David Gilcrease spoke in the beginning about emotions. There was no substance to anything really, it seemed like mind games. It was common for him to put people on the spot, making you speak in front of everyone, and then he?d press you by screaming things like, ?you brought your self here!? or ?your parents don?t love you?. It seemed like he would do anything to illicit an intense, negative emotional response from anyone not already in an overly emotional state. Throughout the day the emotional tension builds and then through more games at night, for example, beating the floor with towels wrapped up with duct tape, are used to relieve the tension. Everyone is in their own world, it?s very strange. Then they make you stay up all night, at least until 3 or 4 am writing 10 pages or more of ?homework?, front and back, about your childhood, and why you are at Spring Creek.
The next day we turned in our homework, and the staff went to go review it all. Then we hear more talk from Gilcrease, and he explains they?re breaking us up into groups to evaluate each other. If you didn?t have any dark secrets revealed in your homework, and didn?t blame yourself completely for being at the facility, you were not being responsible. It seemed to me like Gilcrease wanted us to break down and admit it was 100% our own fault for being at Spring Creek. Any mention of your parents, he?d tear you down and make you admit something and then rub it in your face.
At one point he tells us the staff knows everything we?ve ever did wrong at Spring Creek, even if we were never punished or confronted, they said they know because of what people wrote in their homework the night before. Gilcrease told people to stand up and admit what they had done wrong, before he reveals what they know in front of everyone. If you admit to it, they said you wouldn?t be punished. They said if we didn?t admit to anything, the punishment for our secret misdeeds would be much more severe than normal. You could see everyone get worried. Of course, we all had broken some rule while being there, so some people started admitting to stuff. They ended up all being punished for what they admitted to it turns out. Those of us who kept quiet, our secrets remained intact. They didn?t really know our secrets, just another mind game.
I never took any of the seminars seriously, I pretended the best I could, and would even pretend to cry, but most people did take it seriously. While being barraged by verbal intimidation from Gilcrease, some would admit to startling and shocking secrets in front of everyone. Rape, incest, molestation, you name it- we heard about it. It was pretty obvious some kids would get more emotional than the rest when we were doing certain ?exercises?, and they?d push these kids for admissions and secrets because they were close to breaking. Then they?d admit to something outrageous in front of everyone, and then from then on they were popular in the group. It?s difficult to explain to someone who has never been to one. The sense was if you didn?t hold back, the crowd of emotionally charged people, would accept you. There were many games played throughout the seminar that enforced whether people ?trusted? you or not.
It became obvious a few kids made up overly outrageous stories, that I definitely questioned in my own mind, but their emotional confession, real or not gained the respect of the crowd. I don?t have any shameful secrets from my past, so I just made something up as I?m sure many had to.
The activities the first day and a half were ridiculing and degrading. One game involved everyone standing in a circle facing toward the inside. One at a time, we would walk around the interior of the circle, facing the person on the outside, looking directly in the eyes. We were told to imagine we were on a sinking ship, and we could only save 5 other people. We were then instructed to walk around the circle of about 60 people, and let the person know if we intended on ?saving? them or letting them ?die?. They instructed people to scream ?DIE? like they meant it, screaming right into the faces. There were many games like this, which were emotionally charged. Either you were accepted by the group, or not. Each game reinforced this feeling, whichever way it might be. This was the test if you passed the seminar. If they felt you were ?manipulating? your way through, you wouldn?t pass. If they felt you were sincere, you would pass the seminar.
The last part was almost like a celebration. At the end we were broken up into groups and made to do skits, child like performances in costumes. They told everyone they had passed Discovery, so of course now everyone was very happy and relieved. It was a combination of exhaustion and euphoria and nobody was thinking clearly by this point. We just wanted to go back to sleep. Everyone was told to make a poster with three adjectives. You would then go up in front of everyone and scream with all your heart, ?I am a HAPPY, LOVING, CARING young man!? for example.
Now that I look back on the experience many years later, it is much easier to know what was going on. There is no substance to the seminars, just emotional games. I eventually went on to pass Focus as well, the seminar required to get to level 3. I bullshitted my way through that one too, but barely. They are much more discriminating with how ?real? you are being at the seminars. It was a very strange experience to say the least. I urge you to read the link on the right; it has a much more detailed accounting of the TASKS seminar experience.
Besides the seminars, I could just wait out my time at Spring Creek. Sometimes I?d get mad and say something I wasn?t supposed to towards staff or Jr. Staff and they?d take all my points away. It felt good to let out an insult or threat every once in a while, even if it cost you your brown sugar for a week. I was in the hobbit maybe three or four times, for different reasons. I tried to run once, only made it about 250 feet before a Jr. Staff tackled me and then a bunch of staff dragged me up to Special needs for several days. It gets so frustrating; darting into the snowy woods doesn?t seem like a bad idea at times. We would hear a train go by in the distance every day, I was trying to head towards that train.
posted by Spring Creek Dropout at 2:14 PM
If we had been born in Constantinople, then most of us would have said: "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet." If our parents had lived on the banks of the Ganges, we would have been worshipers of Siva, longing for the heaven of Nirvana.
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I can only write a small amount cuz my time is short. I have a stupid old computer and it dosnt work for no reason some times. Ill keep trying get the link up, but thanks for doing that. Hope you didnt have to write it all out! I can only read the first part for now till my daughter goes to bed, but from what I read, mostly the first part is about the seminars. It sounds similar, except we did seminars at the facility. The only difference is that in my group the therapist you see daily determins if you are ready to go to a seminar. I didnt know many people from my group who went right away, like the day after they got there. I really dont like David gilcrese. He is a big butt head and he is my main complaint wiht the program. I think he is arrogant and rude. I went through all my seminars with Jan. She is an amazing person and a really great lady. I coulnt have done it without her. I think the seminars have the potential to be really helpful depending on who is staffing. I had a few other staffers but i gladly chose out of their seminar and am greatful i was able to do it wiht Jan. Even though I chose out of two seminars I graduated in 14 months. It all depends I guess. Well I'll continue this later.
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I thought the seminars were bullshit, and I think I have enough evidence via testimony of them to be able to assert that they *ARE* bullshit factually.
I mean, if they werent so fucking secretive about it, we'd already know, but whatever. If I am of the opinion that it is inexpedient to assign to the government the task of operating railroads, hotels, or mines, I am not an "enemy of the state" any more than I can be called an enemy of sulfuric acid because I am of the opinion that, useful though it may be for many purposes, it is not suitable either for drinking, or for washing one's hands.
Ludwig Von Mises
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Ginger,
You asked and now I will deliver. Ok here we go. I went to both Casa and CCM.
Housing/Bedding: Ok well the beds were actually lined up the same way at Casa. However in CCM we had 3 big oak bunk beds in one room. That room had it's own full bathroom. Casa had about 5 or 6 showers one next to the other. The doors were clear and so we put our towels over the doors or handles to get privacy. Lice thing? Yeah that was abundunt. But it's common in schools as well. At Casa there was a Scabbies outbreak. That was not fun.
School: Yeah school was easy for me too. However I did go to the local college in St. George. I was on level 5 at that time. It was great. School was text book self-taught. At Casa it was a joke. Just like SCL.
Lines: Well on lower level yes we were in lines. However there was no "Nut to butt" crap. And yes we did have space between us and the other girl. On upper levels we didn't have that line. At Casa they had implemented a rule the day before I left. They said that the girls not only had to look forwards at all times but they had to also walk in form of a etch-a-sketch. Meaning no curves.
Staff: Um well in life no one is going to be Suzie Homemaker constantly. We had some staff that were nice and others that were way strict. It happens. Staff taking things out on the girls? Never experienced that myself.
Worksheets: Well at Casa and CCM they were tapes of 100 greatest people or 100 greatest novels. We sat straight up and took a quiz at the end of each 45 minute tape. No shoddy quarters.
Junior Staff: Well, at Casa this was true. But in Cross Creek it wasn't. The upper levels were more like big sisters that still had to follow the rules. They couldn't give consequences.
Seminars: All on how you perceive them. Yes we had big posters. But their was no need to dramatize life. I never did. I told the truth. It's scary to blurt out your fears, past, mistakes, and such. I had nothing to lose. I thought "Why not? They aren't going to judge me. Why would they. They hurt just as badly." Some of the facilitators sucked. Jan was my favorite. She had a purity to her that I loved. Humiliation? No one can make you feel humiliated without your permission. I found it relieving to discuss my thoughts and past. I found I was not alone in my experiences. Everyone has a sob story.
Did I miss anything? If I did please tell me.
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Seminars: All on how you perceive them.
I could say the same about almost any activity! Its like a blank check to do what you want to the kids and say its THEIR fault for not taking it right! But as we've said repeatedly, these seminars are cookie-cutter, FORCED (unless you want to sit on your ass until 18 and take the exit plan, thats coersion, thast force) and potentially damaging.
I might as well demand you try bondage or sado/masochism or anal sex. Hey, its all in how you perceive it, right?
Also, maybe you in your seminar somehow didnt get a bad facilitator, but plenty have, apparently. I've read and heard from those who say they do judge you and demean you with it. Also, saying nobody can make you be humiliated without permission is an ideal, and a pep-talk, but its not true.
Plenty of people could do so to you in a controlled environment, unconsentually. It boils down to how much time they have, and if its limited, how good they are at finding your buttons and pushing them. It can be done. I dont feel like doing so to prove it, but trust me, it could be done. Now, here in the real world you could just walk away, right? CAN'T in a program seminar!
Now, you, and i'm sure plenty of people all can find it relieving to discussing their thoughts and past. However, when its part of a forced seminar, or if that person is of the type that DOES NOT like to talk about it, guess what? Its not so relieving to THEM. People are different, Perrigaud.
I have seen signs that there are psychological archetypes of people... maybe some actual psych. peer evaluation and refinement of these 'seminars' might help to tailor them for the kind of people who go into them, or at least screen out those who dont get a a benefit - especially those who might be hurt about it.
But in the end, its back to what we've been repeating like a broken record for some time. Saying its a sob story or "life goes on" or people make mistakes or its all in how you take it/make it/perceive it is just ridiculous! Its basically excusing away the behavior and actions of the program while its busy punishing and 'fixing' the behavior of the kids. If you use the "stop complaining" and "its all in now you take it" excuse then the seminar could be practically ANYTHING. There ARE problems and they DO need to be changed.
History does not record anywhere or at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unkonwn without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author
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I have to say, as far as accountability goes, good idea, bad seminar. But Discovery and focus helped me. I liked the things I learned there. They may be bullshit for you and didnt help, but I thought they did good for me. It also depends on the facilitator. I had Jan for every one.
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On 2005-04-07 19:23:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"I thought the seminars were bullshit, and I think I have enough evidence via testimony of them to be able to assert that they *ARE* bullshit factually.
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Oh, they most surely *ARE* bullshit, you can be sure of that. They are about as helpful as going to see a TV evangelist to 'heal' you.
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All I have to ask is:
Why the hell do you need to get in a large group, in a controlled setting, under the control of others, be it a emotional/psycholgoical sort of peer-pressure for the adults or TOTAL control of the form program kids have, and be lead through a emotional rollercoaster with back ground music, lighting, and all sorts of bullshit "processes" to learn anything?
I'd wager to say you DONT. The problem isnt what they (should) teach, its HOW its done. Maybe to you or any sort of program/LGAT supporter it is normal or even necessary, but to the rest of us who havent yet gotten to the punch bowl its bizzare and needless.
But, I degress. You WERE out of control if you were a child in those two seminars, and its better to somehow get something out of it than to not, but seminars are not necessary and its not the people's fault if they get screwed up by it. Its a double-bind. The program getting paid a ton of money should hire a real psychologist and fix it or just DROP it and use regular psychotherapy that *DOES* work.The hypothalamus is one of the most important parts of the brain, involved in many kinds of motivation, among other functions. The hypothalamus controls the "Four F's": 1. fighting; 2. fleeing; 3.feeding; and 4. mating.
-- Psychology professor in neuropsychology intro course
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On 2005-04-08 13:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have to say, as far as accountability goes, good idea, bad seminar. But Discovery and focus helped me. I liked the things I learned there. They may be bullshit for you and didnt help, but I thought they did good for me. It also depends on the facilitator. I had Jan for every one."
Do you think they may have been overly stressful for some of the other kids?Clancy's Law: The perceived role of governments is to deploy ever increasing resources to the attainment of ever diminishing end results.
--Home Page (http://ozinfo.com/)
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Ok. The seminars helped me and didn't screw me up. I know plenty others that went through them and are not traumatized. It's easy to focus and point out the negative. However, the positive is seldom looked at. As for being traumatized. The actual events I went through in my lifetime were far worse than speaking about my real issues. I survived the events. I was happy to work on my issues.
Again, I am with you as far as they should not be forced upon on some kids.
Antigen,
These seminars can be way too much for some individuals. Is it their fault? No it's just that they don't deal that way.
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On 2005-04-09 03:05:00, Perrigaud wrote:
Antigen,
These seminars can be way too much for some individuals. Is it their fault? No it's just that they don't deal that way.
Ok, and how do you feel about having had to take part in something that was harmful to some other participants?This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.
--John Adams, U.S. President
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Antigen,
Its hard to say exactly why some people dont like seminars. I dont know about overly stressful. Learning something new ingeneral can be stressful for sure, wethere its in a seminar or in colledge or whatever. New lessons can be tough. I think the reason I likes Discovery and Focus was because i didnt have reservations about what would happen. I was willing to take it as it came and see the good i coudl learn from it, cuz what I was doing wasnt working. It was nice to learn a diffeent way of looking at things. Life is so damn short (especially for those who smoke 1 pack a day like me) and I like to look for the good in life now. Its too short to look at all the bad. I mean seminars and programs and AA aside. There are alot scarier things facing the youth of today than that! Hell global warming and the environmental threats facing all of us are scarier to me than any expereince I had in the program or anything! I think the reason I liked the seminars was because I have a hard time being in groups let alone speaking in front of them .Luckily I had a facilitator who didnt make me feel wrong or bad for what I said. She really did what she was doing because she cared about helping me. I never felt uncomfortable saying things around her. I never felt demeaned by her. So I felt comfortablew facing my fear of public speaking and dealing with my past. Accountability was blah. I didnt see the point but I think taking accountablilty for your actions is always a good lesson to learn. Now that i am able to do that, i can see many people in my life who blame everyone else for their problems and their attitude, even though it is clear they are responsible. I think the hardest thing about going through the program isnt what you learn, its the fact that the peopel outside the program rarely use the tools you learn there so you end up being accountable, have slef respect (depending on the program) and treat others the way you want to be and other people who havnt been through that dont. Its hard for me to practice positive thinking and accountqablility and treating others with respect when so many peopel in America are rude, selfish, unaccountable, and just plain mean. But I also choose the people I want to be around and dont hang out with those with a negative attitude (for the most part. Cant choose your family)
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Ok, yet again... why even bother with all the bullshit seminars drag along with them and talk about how its the person (Being forced into it) who has to make something of it? Why not dump the shit totally and tell Gilcrease to get a job?
The assumption of its necessity is the real problem here, not children internalizing it correctly or whatever term exists for how participants of LGATs take what is done to them. They dont NEED it and the proof of it 'working' is pretty hard to come by when you dont get out of them until you at least act like it "sunk in". But well, hey, its their fault for keeping the seminars so damned secretive, not ours.
And, PLEASE stop bringing up OTHER things if we're talking about SEMINARS. Its getting off topic and trying to marginalize our issues with them. WTF does global warming have to do with this? I'm not going to accuse you of dodging because it doesnt seem like thats your goal... but it feels like it somewhat.
They dont HAVE to be in programs or HAVE to be in seminars in the first place, despite what others might tell you. And the other thing is changing how you look at things... playing with perception is a slippery slope.
If peoples perceptions and world-views are being changed, whats the chance they could also be manipulated when in the seminar and not be the best unbaised source for info about them, hmm? BTW, please dont reply with double-speak about bias. I'm already anticipating something like that. Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
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I got the site up! I can only write for a sec.
There were 2 bunk beds in one room. a private bathroom. The beds had to be made but not flawlessly. I was there 4 years ago so it might have changed now, dont know. We had a place to hang our cloths and a dresser to put our underwear and stuff away in. We had bins for our personal stuff.
We wore slippers for the first phase. We were indoors most the time for school and stuff so they were fine. (Actually quite comfy top wear slippers alot!) We wore shoes outside so we didnt have to walk in snow in slippers and all that.
We walked in lines, but not uniform lines. We didnt have to do crazy stuff like tough the person in front of ours shoes or anything. Im not sure what junior staff is. We didnt have that. They werent strict about lines.
Im not sure what a family father is either.
Ok I read the next paragraph and I see now. We had St. George girls come to our group every week, but not to enforce things or anything. See the kids on levels 4-6 lived at a facility up the road from the lower facility. It was much less strict and much more laid back. So once a week a girl from there would come and hang with the group. They were mostly there to talk to the kids in the group and stuff. I met alot of cool peopel that way. We most deffinetly didnt have Jr. Staff.
We had the letter thing. My parets didnt say what the kid on the site said. My Dad wrote me a huge letter saying he loved me, talked about what was going on with him, how he felt about me being there, how he thought the program would help, ect. He never said "im not getting you no matter what" but he said he wanted me to stay till I had time to work on my self esteem, work on our relationship ect. My step mom and Moment me similar letters.
My parents took out a second mortgage but didnt tell me till after the program. They never said any of that stuff. They never tried to make me feel bad about needing help. They supported me and let me make the changes I needed to when i needed to. When i chose out of seminars, they wouldnt say, "look what oyu did! YOur not working the program! Your going to be ther longer! Blah blah blah!" They were very kind, understood I wasnt ready and helped me see that I was doing my best.
I spent alot of time wiht my group, but since I had a room wiht three other people from my group I mostly spent time with them. I had some roomates that were lame, but most my roomates were so awsome. They were really funny is what I remember the most. Keeping sense of humor was a great way to have fun in lockdown. i mean, being in lockdown isnt a dandy old time cuz your locked down, but damn were those chicks funny! I miss them alot.
I have to write another post because I lost the site. Hold On.
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On 2005-04-09 11:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"There are alot scarier things facing the youth of today than that! Hell global warming and the environmental threats facing all of us are scarier to me than any expereince I had in the program or anything!"
:silly:
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Ok here i go again.
We had like 13- 17 people per group. We had a therapist and family rep but no family father. We had bathrooms in the facility outside the rooms that were for everyones use. But they had doors and were separated so no different than a public toilet. We had a pretty hectic schedule for the time at the low phase facility, but at the high phase you directed your time before and after school. Actually, the only reason i gradutaed was because of the school there. It was self paced so the classes I had a hard time with at home were much easier to handle at CCM. I had ok grades as a freshman but as a sophmore I had horrible grades and was faling. In the 15 months I was there I made up all the classes i failed at home and graduated with a 3.5 GPA. I was pretty happy about that. If I remember the shedule at low phase it was get up, clean up the room and get dressed, eat, go to school, gym, eat, then school, then group somwhere in there for an hour, then individual thereapy, then fitness, leisure, ed video, leisure, dinner somewhere, quiet time for an hour in the room, shower time, and you could do whatever you wanted till bedtime. We claened our room every day so we didnt have sunday cleaning. At upper levels at the other facility you had deep cleaning, but it was optional. Mostly you just had to keep things tidy and I had 7 roomates at upper phase so we split it up.
The eating schedule was 30 min for each meal. I think thats right. At high phase I think it was longer. I eat fast so i was always done like 10 minearlier than everyone else. Everyone got the same amount of food and the same stuff. So one got more suger than anyone else. We had to listen to tapes, bt we could talk as long as we were quiet. If oyu couldnt hear the tape you couldnt tak for like 5 min.
I dont know about hte med thing. They checked our mouth and oyu couldnt hide them. I took sleeping pills for insomina so i only took them at night before bed.
And my HS certificate is valid and I am actually in college so yeah. We had computers and nice classrooms for all levels so school was nice for me.
Staff members were cool. I liked alot of them and miss them. If they were being cruel or unreasonable in any way, they were fired. I had many staff that were witty and understood how hard it is to be where we were and treated us with respect and kindness. They tried hard to not single peopel out for getting in trouble and explain why they got a consequence. They were very reasonable. I had one staff member who played the guitar with me and was an awsome guy.
They didnt do take downs all the time where i was. If girl got physically violent with another girl or staff member than they would restrain them. But we had alot of women staffers so we didnt have huge guys takign people down. Im also not sure what the hobbit is.
Everyone knew what needed to be cleaned so you just did your particular job and that was that. They inspected it and it had to be clean. But if you missed something they would just tell you and you fixed it without getting points taken away. We compromised about showers and most people got the time they wanted. Its a shower for Christs sake so most people didnt care. Plus the hot water worked so you still got a good shower. At the high phase it was an older buliding so the water heater didnt work so good. but you could take a shower at night or daytime so you could make it work. My family rep was there all day 5 days a week. She was a good lady. I visited her just recently.
Personally about the phone calls. i called my own mother a bitch and physically tried to hurt her every day. I realized how much i loved her when i coudnt call her.It was a wake up call for me. YOu may not agree wiht me, but from the way I had been treating my mom for 4 years I didnt deserve to talk to her. That may seem harsh, but I was cruel and awful adn abusive to my mom. I didnt care about talking to her at home so why get all butt hurt about not talking to her now? And I wrote her every day almost and she wrote me.
We had Isolation which was a room wiht a bed and a chair. It was for the kids who got physically violent, tried to run away, or were trying to hurt themselves. I never saw a person spend moe than acouple of days there.
I am running out of time to write. Have to go to work :sad:
But Ill try to write more later.
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You know, people do go to seminars outside the program wihtout being forced to because it is a good tool.
All I was saying is teh energy you use to hate the program wiht could be used to help very grave situations facing us today, right now, this very moment. There wont be a world for programs ro troubled youth or you or me or anyone if we dont take care of the threats facing our society. I am not trying to get off topic. i just want to put things in perspective.
I can tell you the things I learned in teh program were healthier than the things I was learnign before i wen there. I can say i was an extreme case. I would have killed myself for sure if I hadnt gone. I was cutting and attempting suicide on a regular basis so maybe Im an extreme case. But I wasnt learning anything helpful before i wen there.
"Death puts life into perspective"
Ralph Waldo Emerson
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On 2005-04-09 12:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"All I was saying is teh energy you use to hate the program wiht could be used to help very grave situations facing us today, right now, this very moment."
One big threat to our society is wholesale child abuse for hire, a MULTI MILLION dollar industry, which is growing rapidly. There are better alternatives than a behavior modification camp for teens who are suicidal and harming themselves. They are called psychiatric HOSPITALS. These are regulated by the state and run by qualified officials and actually have trained staff to help people with their problems. I don't know of any medical hospitals who have psychiatric wards are giving money to republican campaigns. I wonder why WWASP is such a huge corporate donor in Utah to the politicians in places of power to actually do something?
WWASP facilities aren't trained to deal with suicidal teens or anyone with serious psychological issues- they admit this! Why on earth someone would send their suicidal kid to a program that amounts to no more than a prison for teens? How many psychologists and psychiatrists are employed at WWASP facilities? Oh yeah, NONE! That would cut into the profit margins.
The bottom line is these places need to be shut down. There is good treatment out there, this is far from it. They're bullshit marketing and tactics of brain washing people to spout BS for the rest of their life (to justify their new way of thinking) won't last forever.
By the way, I saw first person how WWASP handles kids who injure themselves. One kid in our family took the end of a pencil, bit it down and made a sharp corner. He totally cut up his arms, it was sick. He said he did it out of anger. How did the staff deal with the situation? Locked him in isolation for 3 days. Treatment... riiight.
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I think that taching a child self respect and how to deal wiht life starts fro birth on. you cant not teach your kids that stuff and expect when they are teenagers they will get it. But my parents tried many different alternatives for me before the program. I did go to psyciatric care, hospitals, was on antidepressants, therapy (weekly, daily, you name it) antibuse, my paernts triend talking to me, not talking to me, being nice, being men, everything they could. Nothing helped. By the way, the mental hospital where I live, which was where I was going to go instead of CCM, was horrific. Teh living situation was disgusting, the staff were rude and hated their job, ect. I am so greatful to have gone to CCM instead of there!
I got the help I needed there so there you go. Cant argue wihgt that. Im still here arent I? I have not had a suicidal thought since going there. How do you explain that? If it was so horrid, wouldnt my suicidal tendancies be magnified?
I think it is true that prents need to try alternatives to the program before even considering it. It is an extreme thing only for extreme cases.
When a kid hurt themselves in our facility, yes true they went to iso. But they also spent alot of time in therapy to help them get out why they did it. If they just stuck them in there and said hey get over it and dont do it again, then yeah,not so good. In a mental hospital they would have done the EXACT same thing! But that is so much better right? If a kid is hurting themselves in a lockdown facility of any kind theye need to be taken away from the situation and they need to calm down.
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The difference with psychiatric hospitals is there is something called patients rights. You have the right to contact with the outside world, and contact with visitors. This isn't the case with WWASP. Who do you report abuse to? Write your parents in a letter? We all know that doesn't work. I agree there are some pretty messed up hospitals out there, I've been to a few myself. I'm glad there are laws in place to protect my rights when I enter such a facility. Again, these rights are not in place at WWASP facilities.
I'm glad you don't have suicidal thoughts anymore. I am also not suggesting you personally had a horrible experience. We were at different WWASP facilities, at different times. It's possible to have a good experience even in a bad situation.
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Antigen,
How do I feel? I feel sorry for them. However to me it wasn't that big of deal. It helped me. Quite honestly (I'm gonna offend a lot of people so get ready) I think that that's what seperates the survivors from the others. I feel sorry for those who were abused. It's a seminar, again the experiences were a lot more detrimental because they were what started the whole vicious cycle. It's about getting over it. I had no shame in what happened to me and how I felt. I knew this would help and so I shared. Did people challenge me? Yeah, people do it every day. In the end it helped. I could have chosen to let it humiliate me (my past) even after working on it. But life's too short to worry about others and what they think. Screw that. That's the mentality that lowered their self esteem before the seminar.