Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 01, 2005, 09:39:00 PM
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PLEASE FIX YOUR FUCKING SITE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY ACCESS YOUR ARTICLES AND RESEARCH!!!!!!
FUCK!!!!!!!
kthx :tup:
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How about fixing your language? I have no problem accessing isaccorp.org! :smile:
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Well, I do. The articles won't load.
I get this message: "There was an error processing a page. A font contains a bad Cmap/Encoding." Acrobat reader sucks. Why the hell not just provide a link to the articles? Why use crappy Acrobat reader?
And get over the language issue. ANYBODY and EVERYBODY needs to be able to access that information, and it's not user friendly to everyone, obviously. :roll:
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"This file contains information not understood by the viewer. Suppress further errors?"
Switching formats might help... Why not make it so that people can copy and paste and share the information and documents? Why hoard the information like it's yours and yours alone to report? If I can't access it or download it, how the hell am I expected to use the information to help anyone?
Make the articles a webpage! This is ridiculous!
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On 2005-04-01 18:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"How about fixing your language? I have no problem accessing isaccorp.org! :smile: "
You probably work for them. :roll:
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Actually, I don't.
But I do like their work.
Hope it all works out for you.
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I agree. PDF Sucks. too bigt and resource hogging.
Good ole HTML... PLEASE.
And I use firefox, no IE shit, k? :razz: The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are constitutional rights secure.
-- Albert Einstein
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I truly appreciate what they are doing too, but if they honestly want to help, they need to make their information easier to access and distribute.
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They're all volunteers, they're overworked, and if they know it's hard to look at and know how to fix it, they'll probably get to it just as soon as they have time.
After all, they didn't put together the website and put all that stuff up there just to *keep* you from reading it, right?
If someone's not getting paid to do a job, then them doing it when they get around to it is really the best you can reasonably ask of them, eh?
Why don't you volunteer to provide tech support and help them fix it? You appear to have some understanding about why it's not working.
TimocleaImpiety: Your irreverence toward my deity.
--Ambrose Bierce
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If you have a problem with ISACCORP, tell them about it. This is a different site, in case you haven't noticed.
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Yeah well guess what... The "Report a Broken Link" button doesn't work!
I'd copy and paste the link but guess what?
I CAN'T!!!!!!
Why?
Because NOTHING on their site can be copied and pasted!!
LAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Why don't you volunteer to provide tech support and help them fix it? You appear to have some understanding about why it's not working.
Timoclea
I did, over a year ago. I received no direct answer, only a copy of an email between the "governing parties" at ISAC, saying something like "...this looks OK [me, as a person, I guess, since they are paranoid about WWASPS infiltration]". Other than that, they apparently did not need my help, although I outlined my professional as well as secretarial skills and willingness to do about anything, even contribute money.
It sucks being turned down as a volunteer. ISAC's 2 founders seem to feel they have it under control.
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I don't have any trouble opening the docs. I did once get that same message, but using a different server fixed the problem, and now it opens fine with either one.
I'd venture a guess the reason they don't "Just provide links" is that news articles links usually don't remain fixed. The newspaper and magazine folks don't keep the article available indefinitely. There are exceptions, but they are rare.
I am once again amazed at people wanting to bitch about ISAC. If you have an idea for a better resource - go build it. "They" will come. But go build it anyway.
Spots - what were you volunteering to do? I am kind of surprised to see you volunteered, in light of your unwillingness to be contacted for info on Casa.
If all you want to do is post on Forums from time to time, what use could you be to ISAC? I'd imagine they have little need of "Forum posters".
I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything - I am truly puzzled. If you want to become more proactive, and are now willing to speak to families and press and government types, please let some one know.
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On 2005-04-02 07:08:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"I don't have any trouble opening the docs. I did once get that same message, but using a different server fixed the problem, and now it opens fine with either one.
I'd venture a guess the reason they don't "Just provide links" is that news articles links usually don't remain fixed. The newspaper and magazine folks don't keep the article available indefinitely. There are exceptions, but they are rare.
I am once again amazed at people wanting to bitch about ISAC. If you have an idea for a better resource - go build it. "They" will come. But go build it anyway.
Spots - what were you volunteering to do? I am kind of surprised to see you volunteered, in light of your unwillingness to be contacted for info on Casa.
If all you want to do is post on Forums from time to time, what use could you be to ISAC? I'd imagine they have little need of "Forum posters".
I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything - I am truly puzzled. If you want to become more proactive, and are now willing to speak to families and press and government types, please let some one know."
Karen, has it occurred to you, just once, what a good idea it would be if you would just shut your pie-hole?
You, more than anyone on this board, have stabbed people in the back. You do it routinely and effortlessly, and then to top it off, you refer to the Bible and find a passage that you misinterpret so that you can justify your treachery.
Two years ago, all you could do was talk trash about Shelby, Carey, Shannon, Alex, Marie, Christine and Ginger. During that time, you were a Sue Scheff groupie. Since then, you have switched loyalties so many times with your loose-lips and your gossip, it's very hard to know if you just don't have a life, or whether it's just a good time for you to pollute other people's friendships to the point where there is a massive explosion. You're good at getting people to do favors for you, like getting Shelby to put up your website. You're also good at doing the keyboard-warrior thing, but nothing you have done has made one bit of difference, except that it has benefited you somehow.
Who the hell are you? I ask again, who the hell are you to come onto this board and write these stupid posts? Why attack Spots? Although, a month from now, you'll probably befriend Spots so you can get something there.
Why don't you take your strange avatar and your high-school gossip and back-stabbing and go back, once again, to your Bible for answers on how to clean-up your act. What happened to the staying silent advice you got from the Bible? Didn't last long. Oh, and please invest in some software that helps you form at least one correctly spelled word.
:???:
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Amen to that Anon!
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::rocker:: .
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On 2005-04-02 07:08:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"I don't have any trouble opening the docs. I did once get that same message, but using a different server fixed the problem, and now it opens fine with either one.
You know, that's just super that it works for you, but what about some parent, whose only resource is to find the info about an abusive school through others? What if they don't know what "using a different server" even means, and instead just go ahead and send their kid to a program because the information wasn't readily available?
I'd venture a guess the reason they don't "Just provide links" is that news articles links usually don't remain fixed. The newspaper and magazine folks don't keep the article available indefinitely. There are exceptions, but they are rare.
I was not talking about hot linking to the article directly. I know those don?t stay up permanently. I'm saying, create the website in a way that it is user friendly to everyone. Make copies of the articles and documents and create webpage links to the articles, not using Acrobat Reader!
You can't even copy a sentence from http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org)! The way they have it set up, if you right click to copy, you get a message saying, "Thank you for visiting!" Thanks but no thanks. I could also criticize Wes Fagar's site because most of the links on his site don't load right now, and the music is a waste and turns people away because it takes forever to load. Especially those computer users who have no idea why the page won't load because with the music on it takes too long. How do they know to wait? They just think it doesn?t work! I do have a friend who does web design, and their opinion is that music on a webpage is a sure way to lose the interest of others. You know, there are still ignorant parents and others who either still use dial up, or have never touched a computer in their life! What about them? Just screw ?em? Not to mention the text has become so small on Fager?s site that you have to have perfect vision to even see it, and it?s all so jumbled together that you can?t find anything, not to mention the search engine doesn?t work well either. I cannot tell you how many times I?ve given people http://www.thestraight.com (http://www.thestraight.com) as a resource for info, just to have them come back and tell me they didn?t give it the time of day because the web design layout was indecipherable and confusing. You can?t find any thing! It?s completely unorganized! Isaccorp is organized, but not user friendly or copy/paste friendly. Changes need to be made or people simply won?t listen. Don't we want to be heard?
I am once again amazed at people wanting to bitch about ISAC. If you have an idea for a better resource - go build it. "They" will come. But go build it anyway.
ISAC has bragged over the years as being the "# 1 SOURCE FOR INFO!" But does that really amout to a hill o' beans if you can't spread the word? I do activism work, but it's not in the form of web design. I'm giving constructive criticism on an issue that really should be revamped so that their site is user-friendly to ALL. If it's not, then what's the point? So they get all the credit for research, even though their info isn't even available to be helpful?
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//Two years ago, all you could do was talk trash about Shelby, Carey, Shannon, Alex, Marie, Christine and Ginger.//
I have Never talked trash about Any of these people - including Carey, IMO - as what I had to say about her was true.
Back Stabbing? Who's the expert on that? It aint me babe.If I am now feeling different about Susan, it is with good cause (IMO)
If I have had to admit I was wrong a time or two - well at least I have the integrity and humility to admit it.
As for my interpretation of Scripture - it is Mine and I believe it to be justified and correct. You are free and welcome to disagree.
I wasn't attacking Spots - and I do have friendly feeling towards her - but I am puzzled by the volunteer thing and with reason. Its none of your business.
I happen to very much like my strange avatar - Far better than a paper bag, anyway.
As for my spelling - I have been suffering from the embarrassment of my inability to spell what I can so easily read, all my life. Why change now that I am finely accustom to it?
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http://www.thestraights.com (http://www.thestraights.com) <---- forgot the 's'
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PLLLLLLLLLLLLEASE Karen,
You talked nothing but trash. You accused Shelby of trying to bilk $$ in the name of donations in 2003, you said Ginger was a crazy pot smoking nut, you said Christine was a bitch, Shannon had a "big mouth" and you praised Carey and slammed her at the same time. You've reversed your viewpoints so many times you should be walking upside down?! :smokin:
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ISAC has bragged over the years as being the "# 1 SOURCE FOR INFO!"
Really? Where? When?
I am not sure why its not working well for you. I have not have any trouble - except that one time. Once is all. If its not working for you, and the report broken link isn't working - why not call or email ISAC and ask about it, or let them know? Why post a bitchen post on Fornits? What is the real point of that?
Its the complaining note in the post that rubbs me wrong. I am just amazed at the ingratitude. As I said, if you or anyone can do better - Please Do!
The More the Merrier! Really. Go for it.
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Buzzkill, how about staying on topic and not making this some stupid drama about you and your gossiping-misspelling self, huh?
The topic was started with a serious issue at hand, not some dumb drama about you or your poor spelling/bad-mouthing skills.
Wonderful, you can?t believe someone is actually trying to encourage ISAC to change so that they are user-friendly to the masses, OMG, shoot me!
Grow up a shard. :roll:
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On 2005-04-01 21:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yeah well guess what... The "Report a Broken Link" button doesn't work!
I'd copy and paste the link but guess what?
I CAN'T!!!!!!
Why?
Because NOTHING on their site can be copied and pasted!!
LAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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PLLLLLLLLLLLLEASE Karen,
You talked nothing but trash. You accused Shelby of trying to bilk $$ in the name of donations in 2003, you said Ginger was a crazy pot smoking nut, you said Christine was a bitch, Shannon had a "big mouth" and you praised Carey and slammed her at the same time. You've reversed your viewpoints so many times you should be walking upside down?!
This is slander. I Never did or said any of this.
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Buzzkill, how about staying on topic and not making this some stupid drama about you and your gossiping-misspelling self, huh?
The topic was started with a serious issue at hand, not some dumb drama about you or your poor spelling/bad-mouthing skills.
Wonderful, you can?t believe someone is actually trying to encourage ISAC to change so that they are user-friendly to the masses, OMG, shoot me!
Grow up a shard.
OK, I'll try.
But twusent me who made me the subject of debate.
I was on topic until attacked.
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C'mon, yenz guys! Some of these criticizms might be valid. But why attribute some dark motive?
When a man you like switches from what he said a year ago, or four years ago, he is a broad-minded person who has courage enough to change his mind with changing conditions. When a man you don't like does it, he is a liar who has broken his promise.
-- FRANKLIN P.ADAMS (1861-1960).
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown, _Peanuts_ [Charles Schulz]
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On 2005-04-02 10:40:00, Antigen wrote:
"C'mon, yenz guys! Some of these criticizms might be valid. But why attribute some dark motive?
When a man you like switches from what he said a year ago, or four years ago, he is a broad-minded person who has courage enough to change his mind with changing conditions. When a man you don't like does it, he is a liar who has broken his promise.
-- FRANKLIN P.ADAMS (1861-1960).
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown, _Peanuts_ [Charles Schulz]
"
You know Ginger, you have a point but karen has been running her mouth to the point of total distraction. The only good advice she got from the Bible that benefits us, is when it told the bee-otch to shut her mouth!
Stop picking on Spots Buzzkill!
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On 2005-04-02 10:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
You know Ginger, you have a point but karen has been running her mouth to the point of total distraction. The only good advice she got from the Bible that benefits us, is when it told the bee-otch to shut her mouth!
Stop picking on Spots Buzzkill!"
You can't be serious :question: :question:
All you do is talk shit about people! And far be it from me to discourage that. Have you noticed that posts from kids recently out of these programs are rare as hen's teeth around here? Aren't those the people who's cause we're all trying to champion? Ever wonder why they tend to avoid this place?
I have a theory. I may be way off here. But I suspect they avoid this place because the solid research and insightful discussion is usually too dry and stodgey for their youthful interests and all the rest just reminds them too much of a damned come-down rap.
My God, Roy is absolutely right. In fact, I even went so far as to look over the code and consider assiging you and your buddy jack ass avatars. Then I thought better of it. It's not asif anybody needs my help to see what you are.
I just wish you people would go sell Mary Kay or Amway or something and leave the poor kids out of it!
The drug war places Leo in a round room and instructs him to piss in a corner.
--Antigen
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Anyone picking on ISAC has no clue how much they do. Start your own damn site and do it your own way. Then get ready, people will give you shit about your site no matter how you do it.
I should not even waste my time on this complete idiocy. I had harsher words but i edited them out.
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On 2005-04-02 11:36:00, miseducated wrote:
"Anyone picking on ISAC has no clue how much they do. Start your own damn site and do it your own way. Then get ready, people will give you shit about your site no matter how you do it.
I should not even waste my time on this complete idiocy. I had harsher words but i edited them out."
Thanks for stopping by with that truly important nugget of wisdom. I too had some stronger words - oh, what the hell FU_K YOU (fill in the blanks mo fo) :lol:
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On 2005-04-02 11:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-04-02 11:36:00, miseducated wrote:
"Anyone picking on ISAC has no clue how much they do. Start your own damn site and do it your own way. Then get ready, people will give you shit about your site no matter how you do it.
I should not even waste my time on this complete idiocy. I had harsher words but i edited them out."
Thanks for stopping by with that truly important nugget of wisdom. I too had some stronger words - oh, what the hell FU_K YOU (fill in the blanks mo fo) :lol: "
Makes more sense than anything I've ever read from you. Why don't you start your own organization , you fountain of wisdom, you? I know several survivors who have told me personally that ISAC was a very helpful resource. Then again, your talent seems to be focused on lame retorts to those you disagree with, so maybe you should stick to that.
_________________
"Mean and hateful since 1982"
Your sponsor says it's OK for you to drink
_____________________________________________
Stay away, 12-Stepper, your lies are not welcome here....[ This Message was edited by: RTP2003 on 2005-04-02 11:53 ]
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On 2005-04-02 11:49:00, RTP2003 wrote:
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On 2005-04-02 11:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-04-02 11:36:00, miseducated wrote:
"Anyone picking on ISAC has no clue how much they do. Start your own damn site and do it your own way. Then get ready, people will give you shit about your site no matter how you do it.
I should not even waste my time on this complete idiocy. I had harsher words but i edited them out."
Thanks for stopping by with that truly important nugget of wisdom. I too had some stronger words - oh, what the hell FU_K YOU (fill in the blanks mo fo) :lol: "
Makes more sense than anything I've ever read from you. Why don't you start your own organization if, you fountain of wisdom, you? I know several survivors who have told me personally that ISAC was a very helpful resource. Then again, your talent seems to be focused on lame retorts to those you disagree with, so maybe you should stick to that.
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Yes Karen, you dope.
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My, My--this started out as a way to help ISAC be a more readable, helpful site. NOW, what happened here? It does take awhile to work your way through the ISAC site, and it does need to be simplified, especially for Non-computer-smart-people-like-me.
But is ISAC worthwhile? YOU BETTER BELIEE IT IS!!!
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On 2005-04-02 12:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My, My--this started out as a way to help ISAC be a more readable, helpful site. NOW, what happened here? It does take awhile to work your way through the ISAC site, and it does need to be simplified, especially for Non-computer-smart-people-like-me.
But is ISAC worthwhile? YOU BETTER BELIEE IT IS!!!"
Toilets are worthwhile too Monkey Boy!
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[/quote]
You can't be serious ::boohoo:: :cry:
Judge Warbis has spoken!
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On 2005-04-02 12:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You can't be serious ::boohoo:: :cry:
Judge Warbis has spoken!"
Serious as a heart-attack Judge Warbis.
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ISAC may be hard to navigate, but the way I found it was by doing a Google search for the facility I wanted to know about. It took me right to the page for that facility. I think this would be the most common way people find the site. So, I don't think a parent will necessarily be frustrated in trying to find info about a facility if it's up on ISAC. Sure, it could be a better site, but to criticize someone's heartfelt and effective volunteer work in such a crude manner is just tacky.
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On 2005-04-02 17:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"ISAC may be hard to navigate, but the way I found it was by doing a Google search for the facility I wanted to know about. It took me right to the page for that facility. I think this would be the most common way people find the site. So, I don't think a parent will necessarily be frustrated in trying to find info about a facility if it's up on ISAC. Sure, it could be a better site, but to criticize someone's heartfelt and effective volunteer work in such a crude manner is just tacky."
Hmmmm yes, the ISAC group definitely looks like its hearts are filling over with good will. What's tacky are these brainless attempts to cover that bunch of morons.
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On 2005-04-02 15:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
Serious as a heart-attack Judge Warbis.
That's sad. That's like getting a lecture on polite conversation from the Whitmore kids... or one on honesty from Ken Kay.All of these comforting and reasonable things were taught by the ministers in their pulpits -- by teachers in Sunday schools and by parents at home. The children were victims. They were assaulted in the cradle -- in their mother's arms. Then, the schoolmaster carried on the war against their natural sense, and all the books they read were filled with the same impossible truths. The poor children were helpless. The atmosphere they breathed was filled with lies -- lies that mingled with their blood.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
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On 2005-04-02 20:15:00, Antigen wrote:
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On 2005-04-02 15:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
Serious as a heart-attack Judge Warbis.
That's sad. That's like getting a lecture on polite conversation from the Whitmore kids... or one on honesty from Ken Kay.All of these comforting and reasonable things were taught by the ministers in their pulpits -- by teachers in Sunday schools and by parents at home. The children were victims. They were assaulted in the cradle -- in their mother's arms. Then, the schoolmaster carried on the war against their natural sense, and all the books they read were filled with the same impossible truths. The poor children were helpless. The atmosphere they breathed was filled with lies -- lies that mingled with their blood.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
"
Ah, Judge Warbis, are you saying the kids at the school in Nephi are not honest?
Your Warship has become cold during her tenure on the bench. :nworthy:
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No, I was implying that the kids at Whitmore and curse a lot and are not polite, Ken Kay is frequently dishonest and you talk a lot of shit.
The memory of my own suffering has prevented me from ever shadowing one young soul with the superstitions of the Christian religion.
--Elizabeth Cady-Stanton
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On 2005-04-02 11:49:00, RTP2003 wrote:
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On 2005-04-02 11:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-04-02 11:36:00, miseducated wrote:
"Anyone picking on ISAC has no clue how much they do. Start your own damn site and do it your own way. Then get ready, people will give you shit about your site no matter how you do it.
I should not even waste my time on this complete idiocy. I had harsher words but i edited them out."
Thanks for stopping by with that truly important nugget of wisdom. I too had some stronger words - oh, what the hell FU_K YOU (fill in the blanks mo fo) :lol: "
Makes more sense than anything I've ever read from you. Why don't you start your own organization , you fountain of wisdom, you? I know several survivors who have told me personally that ISAC was a very helpful resource. Then again, your talent seems to be focused on lame retorts to those you disagree with, so maybe you should stick to that.
_________________
"Mean and hateful since 1982"
Your sponsor says it's OK for you to drink
_____________________________________________
Stay away, 12-Stepper, your lies are not welcome here....[ This Message was edited by: RTP2003 on 2005-04-02 11:53 ]"
I didn't say that. That was a different Anon. we're anonymous so we can get away with that stuff.
I made valid suggestions based upon experience and the fact that people need to know this information. I'm not attacking ISAC, I'm asking them to consider more people. That?s what we all want, right? Sure, it appeals to survivors, but why not be able to view it always instead of some people who may not have the ability to see it at all? What if it meant hundreds or even thousands more not in gulags?
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On 2005-04-02 12:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My, My--this started out as a way to help ISAC be a more readable, helpful site. NOW, what happened here? It does take awhile to work your way through the ISAC site, and it does need to be simplified, especially for Non-computer-smart-people-like-me.
But is ISAC worthwhile? YOU BETTER BELIEE IT IS!!!"
Right on! Two posting anons that agree in a Fornit's thread! :grin:
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On 2005-04-02 20:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-04-02 17:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"ISAC may be hard to navigate, but the way I found it was by doing a Google search for the facility I wanted to know about. It took me right to the page for that facility. I think this would be the most common way people find the site. So, I don't think a parent will necessarily be frustrated in trying to find info about a facility if it's up on ISAC. Sure, it could be a better site, but to criticize someone's heartfelt and effective volunteer work in such a crude manner is just tacky."
Hmmmm yes, the ISAC group definitely looks like its hearts are filling over with good will. What's tacky are these brainless attempts to cover that bunch of morons."
Um, you're calling what I said "brainless" but you're the one who can't figure out how to use a reasonably uncomplicated website.
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What are you talking about? It was SPOTS who suggested that there were problems with links over at the ISAC site. I never said I have a problem with it. Get your Anons and Registered users straight asswipe :exclaim:
:smokin:
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On 2005-04-02 20:34:00, Antigen wrote:
"No, I was implying that the kids at Whitmore and curse a lot and are not polite, Ken Kay is frequently dishonest and you talk a lot of shit.The memory of my own suffering has prevented me from ever shadowing one young soul with the superstitions of the Christian religion.
--Elizabeth Cady-Stanton
"
The kids at Whitmore are not polite? Why Ginger, according to you, they're fellow survivors. How can you say nasty things about survivors. And, why, oh great one, do you say I talk a lot of shit? All of this unpleasantness is just so unlike you :cry:
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On 2005-04-03 05:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
The kids at Whitmore are not polite? Why Ginger, according to you, they're fellow survivors. How can you say nasty things about survivors. And, why, oh great one, do you say I talk a lot of shit? All of this unpleasantness is just so unlike you :cry: "
You must have me confused w/ someone else. I've never given cart blanch to anyone just because they've had a rough time. If you look around these forums (and I have a feeling you've spent a good deal of time studying them) you know that program survivors are quite often pretty foul mouthed and impolite.
Facts is facts. You still talk way too much shit to be lecturing Karen about it.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright
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***The kids at Whitmore are not polite? Why Ginger, according to you, they're fellow survivors. How can you say nasty things about survivors.
These kids are not yet 'survivors'. I believe she was referring to the kids who are still incarcerated and under Whitmore's influence. Have you read that forum?
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On 2005-04-03 00:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-04-02 20:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-04-02 17:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"ISAC may be hard to navigate, but the way I found it was by doing a Google search for the facility I wanted to know about. It took me right to the page for that facility. I think this would be the most common way people find the site. So, I don't think a parent will necessarily be frustrated in trying to find info about a facility if it's up on ISAC. Sure, it could be a better site, but to criticize someone's heartfelt and effective volunteer work in such a crude manner is just tacky."
Hmmmm yes, the ISAC group definitely looks like its hearts are filling over with good will. What's tacky are these brainless attempts to cover that bunch of morons."
Um, you're calling what I said "brainless" but you're the one who can't figure out how to use a reasonably uncomplicated website."
This is about not being ABLE to navigate the website. It's about their site not being copy/paste friendly and user-friendly to the masses. If I click a link, and it doesn't load a page, and instead tells me there were errors, is that really about the person clicking that links intelligence level? Not everyone (which is who we want to be able to read those articles and reports) is getting a chance to spread the word of warning about these programs! If they can?t, how is this productive? Why use PDF files anyway? It requires Acrobat (a newer version) to read it, and not everyone has that version on their computer, not to mention it?s a big download, and few people actually know how to do that stuff in the first place. My question/criticism is; why do they make it impossible to distribute important information via the internet?
And please, the name-calling you are stooping to is just silly. Let's focus on the solutions here, not pointing fingers and irrelevant insults.
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IMHO, the ISAC site is much, much improved over the last year or two. Used to be very difficult to find what you're looking for and there wasn't much of any documentation available to back some of the reports. The docs existed, but you'd have to contact somebody there to get confirmation before you could use it for anything. That's getting better.
Are there broken links? Probably. If you want to do a good deed, make up a list of them (including the page urls in which you find them) and send that list to Shelby so she can fix them. Here's the contact page:
http://isaccorp.org/contact.html (http://isaccorp.org/contact.html)
and the 'report a broken link' link worked just fine just now when I clicked it.
PDFs are a pain in the butt. But I don't know how much choice they have. Sometimes, that's all you get. And if it's a graphic pdf (images of pages instead of text) there's really not much you can do to improve on that. Given a choice, I much prefer plain text or html. Why not ask about that.
As far as the no copy gadget, I agree, that's just inconvenient and I don't know of a good reason to do it. Ask. Maybe it'll go away too if you just ask.
But what's the point of coming over here and going at it so in such a hostile way?
PLEASE FIX YOUR FUCKING SITE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY ACCESS YOUR ARTICLES AND RESEARCH!!!!!!
FUCK!!!!!!!
kthx
You're tellin' me this was just a friendly bit of constructive criticizm?
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown, _Peanuts_ [Charles Schulz]
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On 2005-04-03 11:16:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-04-03 05:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
The kids at Whitmore are not polite? Why Ginger, according to you, they're fellow survivors. How can you say nasty things about survivors. And, why, oh great one, do you say I talk a lot of shit? All of this unpleasantness is just so unlike you :cry: "
You must have me confused w/ someone else. I've never given cart blanch to anyone just because they've had a rough time. If you look around these forums (and I have a feeling you've spent a good deal of time studying them) you know that program survivors are quite often pretty foul mouthed and impolite.
Facts is facts. You still talk way too much shit to be lecturing Karen about it.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright
"
Coming from the chief shit talker, high atop Mount MONESSEN, I'll take that as a compliment.
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On 2005-04-03 11:47:00, Antigen wrote:
"IMHO, the ISAC site is much, much improved over the last year or two. Used to be very difficult to find what you're looking for and there wasn't much of any documentation available to back some of the reports. The docs existed, but you'd have to contact somebody there to get confirmation before you could use it for anything. That's getting better.
Are there broken links? Probably. If you want to do a good deed, make up a list of them (including the page urls in which you find them) and send that list to Shelby so she can fix them. Here's the contact page:
http://isaccorp.org/contact.html (http://isaccorp.org/contact.html)
and the 'report a broken link' link worked just fine just now when I clicked it.
PDFs are a pain in the butt. But I don't know how much choice they have. Sometimes, that's all you get. And if it's a graphic pdf (images of pages instead of text) there's really not much you can do to improve on that. Given a choice, I much prefer plain text or html. Why not ask about that.
As far as the no copy gadget, I agree, that's just inconvenient and I don't know of a good reason to do it. Ask. Maybe it'll go away too if you just ask.
But what's the point of coming over here and going at it so in such a hostile way?
PLEASE FIX YOUR FUCKING SITE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY ACCESS YOUR ARTICLES AND RESEARCH!!!!!!
FUCK!!!!!!!
kthx
You're tellin' me this was just a friendly bit of constructive criticizm?
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown, _Peanuts_ [Charles Schulz]
"
Yes, even by my standard, this is a little too blunt. We finally agree on something Queen Warbis.
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On 2005-04-03 12:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
Yes, even by my standard, this is a little too blunt. We finally agree on something Queen Warbis."
Beyond blunt. It's actually a little inaccurate. Most people can access what they're looking for. Most readers probably never try to copy by right-clicking. And I don't think any of the problems w/ the site are either major or intentional. There were major problems w/ it early on. But most of them have been resolved already.
The biggest 'problem' I see w/ it now is that there's not more of it. Of the thousands of programs out there, they list only a couple of dozen. But then, there's a significant difference between a site like Fornits and one like ISAC. All I do is provide space where anyone can say whatever they want/dare to say. I don't check facts or IDs. Anyone who needs substantiation of anything on this site has got to do their own homework. And they frequently do. Anyone who wants to beat that info out of someone who's unwilling to give it has got to go through a properly burdonsome litigation process. So there's far more info here, but of a much lower quality or value.
ISAC, otoh, takes statements from people who are willing to back them w/ their real names. That takes time and effort. I wish more people who post their stories here would make a statement to ISAC. But I also understand a lot of reasons why one wouldn't want to do that.
Totalitarianism is like a specter which drinks the blood of the living and so achieves reality, while the victims go on existing as a mass of living corpses.
Karl Jaspers, The Fight Against Totalitarianism (1963)
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Ginger, you're right about that too, but it takes $$$. I wonder if Marti would be willing to give back the money she took from ISAC? That might help them in further developing their site. But, alas, she probably used it for voice lessons. I remember she sounded like Victor Buono :wink:
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That's a new one on me. I guess that goes to credit the character of the folks at ISAC. If they were big shit talkers, I suppoe we'd all know what you're talking about.
Age is mind over matter. If you don't mind...it doesn't matter!
-- Chuck Gauran
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On 2005-04-03 16:03:00, Antigen wrote:
"That's a new one on me. I guess that goes to credit the character of the folks at ISAC. If they were big shit talkers, I suppoe we'd all know what you're talking about.Age is mind over matter. If you don't mind...it doesn't matter!
-- Chuck Gauran
"
Now Ginger, let's not start up with each other again! I wrote a reply that I felt was appropriate to your post and your Olive Branch, let's not hit me over the head with it, or sure-up ISAC's integrity at my expense please. Anyway, I thought the Marti thing was very common knowledge :eek:
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On 2005-04-03 16:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
Now Ginger, let's not start up with each other again! I wrote a reply that I felt was appropriate to your post and your Olive Branch, let's not hit me over the head with it, or sure-up ISAC's integrity at my expense please. Anyway, I thought the Marti thing was very common knowledge :eek: "
I'm not being the least bit snide here when I say I think you're seriously misinformed. Or maybe I'm just that far out of the loop that I'm the only one who doesn't know. But I seriously hope you'll back off of the gossip circuit for awhile and put on your logical, pragmatic engineering thinking cap and reassess this whole situation.
No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
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. :wave:
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On 2005-04-03 16:19:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-04-03 16:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
Now Ginger, let's not start up with each other again! I wrote a reply that I felt was appropriate to your post and your Olive Branch, let's not hit me over the head with it, or sure-up ISAC's integrity at my expense please. Anyway, I thought the Marti thing was very common knowledge ::argue::
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Oh, and by the way, you keep giving me "annoy" pop-ups and I'll just keep changing servers. I've got a million of them :smokin:
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On 2005-04-03 16:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
Let's think of your group, as say Iraq, and mine as Jordan, and figure out how this all came to pass and how to stop it. Or, if you wish, we could go back to this ====>
Well, I'd almost always rather have a meaningful discussion than a brawl. I guess I'm getting old, huh?
But, unless you're intentionally misrepresenting things, you really must be very misinformed. I don't have a group. If you're refering to the ISAC people, I respect what they do as regards their website. But, outside of that, we barely even tolerate each other on a good day. Just ask Bill OR Shelby. As for Marti, well I won't even go there. Suffice it to say that she probably wouldn't want to be a member of any group that would have me, and the feeling is mutual.
I did hear it through the grapevine, though, that you guys thought Bill E was the red panties maniac. :rofl: If you only knew, you'd have to laugh to keep from crying. If you want that info, you'll just have to pay the freight. But I really think you'd be disapointed.
Hmm, Iraq and Jordan you say? I haven't been paying attention. Here's the first article that came up:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Mar20.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50921-2005Mar20.html)
Does this mean I win my bet and the Pure folks are going to be the first to start lobbing bomb laden virgins at us?
My understanding of the origins of this brawl is this. Joyce Harris says she was refered by Sue Scheff to Whitmore Accademy. Unhappy w/ her experience w/ them (to say the least!) she made a statement to ISAC. I honestly didn't expect that to go anywhere and I have to say it raised my opinion of Shelby immesurably when it actually went up. But it did and as soon as it did, suddenly we have a bunch of peopl talking all sorts of shit about Shelby and ISAC. A bunch of other folks, most of whom have been far closer to the whole situation than I for a very long time, cried foul. And now we're seeing a whole lot of shit talk about them.
This is very much reminiscent of what happened when Carey Bock broke ranks and refused to follow Sue's directives. And no, I'm not defending Carey or everything she did. Just commenting on the way in which folks who didn't want her talking have gone about silencing her. And you, my buddy, are among the ringleaders. Both rounds.
I'm hoping that some of the kids (some now adults) who landed up in Escula Caribe will aslo make statements to ISAC. Not that they haven't already posted here and to their own forums and websites elsewhere (all that I know of are listed at Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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On 2005-04-03 16:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Oh, and by the way, you keep giving me "annoy" pop-ups and I'll just keep changing servers. I've got a million of them :smokin: "
Well, I've counted three or four so far. But you have such a distinctive style, it's hard to miss. Unless.... unless it's all your followers mindlessly carrying out your will :rofl: :rofl: If All it takes is an infinite number of monkeys with type writers, then how come there's no Shakespeare coming out of AOL?
-- Anonymous
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Without using the quote option, to be considerate of server space, I'll just reply:
I know you will find this hard to believe, but you haven't got the whole post thing figured out (IPs and such). But that's not important. Your post was definitely the entree to a good discussion. First and foremost, I'm not sure why you think I can speak for Sue on that last issue. I'm really not a PURE Lt., I just don't think all this other stuff I've seen is fair at all.
For instance, since you mentioned the undergarment. That was beyond satirical. In my opinion way beyond, but I never heard it was the person you mentioned. To be honest, I thought someone else completely. Whoever it was, it was way beyond the pale and to be honest, I think that person retaliated against someone who might not have even posted. That's the problem with a lot of what happens here (not a barb directed to you).
On the history of the Whitmore thing. I understand it's a small school with 30 or 40 children and, honestly, I think there has been a lot of embellishment of the facts. You, me, and most of the others who have posted don't have any personal knowledge of the facts. Yes, the horse thing is disturbing, but I find it hard to believe that these people torture horses for fun. It can't possibly be fun. I hadn't heard anything concerning cultish behavior that was actually verified, but if your point is that people got upset and Shelby reported that, then I understand your position. I just think that some people were a little too ready to literally chew-off the hand that fed them. My guess is that everyone would have acted with integrity (sans the Whitmore owners, I can't say there) if there wasn't such a mad-dash to the keyboard. Collecting all the facts first, I think, would have been they key to keeping everyone from getting hot under the collar.
Finally, believe me, everyone is working overtime on the shit-talking on and off your site. And again, I'm no ringleader, it just looks that way to you in IP-land.
So, as the hour grows late, let me just say Ginger, you have been your usual interesting self, and I have enjoyed this little break from - how did you put it - oh yes, "mortal combat". The bomb laiden virgins was definitely funny - good catch Ginger.
Have a good evening.
::cheers::
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On 2005-04-03 18:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Without using the quote option, to be considerate of server space, I'll just reply:
Thanks. I apreciate that. But server space is really no object. Turns out this little net ready sql engine has some mighty awsome balls and I haven't even had to put the database on a diet since the epoch in 2001.
Your post was definitely the entree to a good discussion. First and foremost, I'm not sure why you think I can speak for Sue on that last issue.
Because you only come around when Sue's taking a hit around here and you focus on issues related to PURE to the exclusion of all others.
I'm really not a PURE Lt., I just don't think all this other stuff I've seen is fair at all.
For instance, since you mentioned the undergarment. That was beyond satirical. In my opinion way beyond, but I never heard it was the person you mentioned. To be honest, I thought someone else completely. Whoever it was, it was way beyond the pale and to be honest, I think that person retaliated against someone who might not have even posted. That's the problem with a lot of what happens here (not a barb directed to you).
Actually, that wasn't anywhere near as raw as some of what flies around here. But I agree w/ you. It was beside the point and below the belt and overly provocative in the midsts of a discussion that I would rather have moved more tword seriousness and sobriety. I could say just the same about much of what you post. But that's the way it goes. If I wanted a moderated forum that reflected only those things that I find worthwhile, I'd have set it up that way. It's just not what I'm after.
On the history of the Whitmore thing. I understand it's a small school with 30 or 40 children and, honestly, I think there has been a lot of embellishment of the facts.
Well, I think you can take it as a given when discussing any of these places that there will be exagerations and outright bullshit. The object of discussion is for all parties to beat hell out of anything they find suspect and see what's left standing at the end of the day.
Which of the claims about the Whitmore do you find suspect and why?
You, me, and most of the others who have posted don't have any personal knowledge of the facts.
Not ALL of the facts. But a good many, plus a lot of clues.
Yes, the horse thing is disturbing, but I find it hard to believe that these people torture horses for fun. It can't possibly be fun.
You'll be stunned and amazed to know that I agree w/ you about that. I think the judge in Canada said it best. That kid made a mistake in not admiting (maybe not even fully recognizing) when he was in over his head. And I think the Suds made a mistake in assuming, for whatever reason, that the kid had the knowledge, ability or maturity to handle the task. This is putting aside all the side issues about why there was not adequate feed available or where Mark actually was during that time.
And this leads us to the cultish stuff...
I hadn't heard anything concerning cultish behavior that was actually verified
I think the reason why they trusted that kid w/ their horses is probably about the same as why the people at The Seed and Straight and WWASP programs and a lot of others tend to draw on their graduate groups for therapeutic staff. They actually and sincerely believe that their program is SO good as to equip any 17yo for any damned thing! Why, if you find that your employers are overly affected w/ the newage, conciousness expanding seminars, then I'd suggest you sign up for a couple of seminars or polish up you resume.
For a mainline dose of the creepy cultic, check out this thread. "Miricle Workers"
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... orum=35&22 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8109&forum=35&22) Or look at some of the threats that Whitmore supporters have made against the kids who have made unauthorized reports to the Nephi PD.
, but if your point is that people got upset and Shelby reported that, then I understand your position. I just think that some people were a little too ready to literally chew-off the hand that fed them.
There, I think you're misinformed. Or maybe I am. I'm not real tight w/ any of the gossip circles. But the way I heard it, the first Whitmore report went up and Sue went all threatening and manic about it. I didn't know whether to believe it, though it sure seemed consistent w/ what I've seen before. Then you decided to drop in on us again and that sort of gave it away.
My guess is that everyone would have acted with integrity (sans the Whitmore owners, I can't say there) if there wasn't such a mad-dash to the keyboard.
Collecting all the facts first, I think, would have been they key to keeping everyone from getting hot under the collar.
I don't think it really started w/ a mad dash. Here's the original thread started in this forum at a time when you know damned well I was busy w/ more pressing matters than this forum.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 7&forum=35 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=U&topic=4457&forum=35)
Even by the following April, Whitmore still didn't ring a bell. People post program names around here all the time looking for dish. Most often, they're trolls trying to incite actionable statements. But even if they're not, I don't want to go talking out my ass and getting people needlessly upset. If the true and correct answer is "I don't know, leme see what I can find out" then that's the answer I give. A lot of other pple around here do the same. I've learned SO much from this and I'm thankful.
I am interested in collecting facts. One of the aparent facts of the matter has been the response by Whitmore supporters. And much of that has come down to either "Cheryl (or Sue, in some cases) said it, I believe it, that settles it." or
Well you're just a dirty rotten no good liar, druggie, slut, (etc., ad nauseum) so nobody will believe you anyway" Then there were the blackmail threats and what, for all the world, looked like a delivery on that promise, and that spoke VOLUMES!
Finally, believe me, everyone is working overtime on the shit-talking on and off your site. And again, I'm no ringleader, it just looks that way to you in IP-land.
Oh, I know that's right. No, I honestly guess you're a ringleader in the keyboard warrior department and a follower in the real world aspect of the thing. You just have too many details wrong or off message, but I think you enjoy the combat as much as anybody.
So, as the hour grows late, let me just say Ginger, you have been your usual interesting self, and I have enjoyed this little break from - how did you put it - oh yes, "mortal combat". The bomb laiden virgins was definitely funny - good catch Ginger.
Have a good evening.
::cheers:: "
Thanks, and you too.The legislature is to society as a physician is to the patient. If a physician ignored side effects of medications like today's legislators ignore the side effects of their legislation, the physician would be accused of malpractice. I accuse today's legislators (with rare exception) of legislative malpractice. Many of the ills that are so obvious in our society are a direct result of previous legislation. Their solution? More laws!
-- John A. Bennett, DO
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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What's going on here?
Aside from the PDF load delay, what is the deal here? I have no problem copying text from the site, and I have also reported a broken link (about a month ago) - tried it tonight, and it brought up my default email. Didn't hit "send" though - nothing to report!
This was on an XP laptop using Firefox. Too tired to try anything else.
Question is - are you sure it's ISAC and not a local computer problem? What gives with the inability to copy?
Seriously - I'm not seeing any of this.
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You're able to copy the Acrobat Reader articles?
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On 2005-04-04 06:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You're able to copy the Acrobat Reader articles?"
Yep - by hitting the "save a copy" button, and also by selecting text and copy/pasting.
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Quoting Ginger to (I assume) Lee:
Which of the claims about the Whitmore do you find suspect and why?
Indeed - which?
Have you even read any of the Whitmore forum?
That's what got my eyes open to the fact I had been snowed about these people.
It can be confusing with so many not registering; but the main "complainants" do register and so you can learn a good deal just by reading their posts.
You ought to get in touch with Joyce Harriss. She is right in your neck of the woods - good ole Texan gal. She is not what you have been told - and I know what you've been told. I was told the same thing - and I too believed it until I spent a week end reading the Whitmore forum.
At that point I began (along with others) to ask a good friend to rethink things, as I felt She was being mislead and wasn't looking at the issue with unbiased eyes. My original concern was for Her, and the damage Her unwillingness to look at the evidence might cause Her. At that point ALL I was doing was disagreeing with Her assessment of the situation and giving advice she found distasteful.
Then ISAC got served.
I soon found myself under attack for my concern. And largely by you Pal. Thanks for the eye opener.
Anyway. . .
Events played out, and in my opinion, evidence piled up, and lead to inescapable conclusions. I DID try and not go there. It IS Heartbreaking.
I don't think you have yet to really objectively look at the evidence. I think b/c it IS Heartbreaking.
I still think you should.
There are others besides the program that need to be held accountable Lee. And maybe its your duty, in light of your proclaiming concern for the kids, to help hold them accountable.
[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-04-04 08:05 ]
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On 2005-04-04 07:44:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:
"
On 2005-04-04 06:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You're able to copy the Acrobat Reader articles?"
Yep - by hitting the "save a copy" button, and also by selecting text and copy/pasting."
Well, I think you're assuming an awful lot if you think that just any ignorant parent/or other person seeking information (who is not computer savvy by any stretch of the imagination) is going to ever figure out how to do any of that to begin with, and that was my whole point but sorry for the frustrated first post, and I'm done here. They can leave it however they want to it's their site and their work and research is appreciated.
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My, my, my. After posting a somewhat-petulant jab at ISAC because they never "accepted" my offer of volunteerism, I spent a lovely weekend with the animals. {Grandaughter just came back Saturday night from a weeklong vacation of sorts with her "other" family, visiting Eastern colleges, zillions of basketball games, and NYC and St. Louis. Her first words home? "I'm NEVER going anyplace with them again".
Anyway, here is this rambling, flaming thread when I return. From Page 1, I find Karen saying...
"Spots - what were you volunteering to do? I am kind of surprised to see you volunteered, in light of your unwillingness to be contacted for info on Casa.
If all you want to do is post on Forums from time to time, what use could you be to ISAC? I'd imagine they have little need of "Forum posters".
While I really don't find a need to defend myself, I would like the record to note that I was never unwilling to be contacted for info on Casa. Where on earth did you get that idea, Karen? ISAC called me after the Casa closing, and I finally decided against appearing at their "press conference" about the closures, considering that it was about 3 weeks after the Big News hit, due to some logistic problems on their end. And, as I said in my original post on this thread, I offered typing, research, and monetary help, but was never taken up on my offer.
I have always felt my "anectdotal" comments on our WWASPS experiences were insightful for the ordinary searching parent, so that's what I mostly do. That is what *I* think is helpful to clothe this industry in a bad light...which is what *I* think is an effective way of reducing and eventually eliminating the fodder of troublesome teens that makes this Evil Empire run. Dare I say that anectdotes about daily life (the truth, not the marketing bullshit) may have more of an effect on changing a searching parent's view of the situation than **7** pages of He Said/She Said that this thread has evolved into.
[BTW, I copied the above quote from Karen by hitting "Copy" on my Internet Express toolbar, second command from the left, under "Edit", kept it on the clipboard, and pasted when I opened this message to Fornits. Not exactly rocket science, but you DO need to know how to do it. Perhaps a note on the ISAC Home Page about copying selections, short or long, may help the Average Reader. There!!! Constructive Criticism.]
As for the quoted material from this lengthy thread...
On 2005-04-03 05:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What are you talking about? It was SPOTS who suggested that there were problems with links over at the ISAC site. I never said I have a problem with it. Get your Anons and Registered users straight asswipe :exclaim:
:smokin: "
...uhmm...Dear Anonymous, please check further before putting your foot into your mouth and labeling other Anonymous writers as toilet paper. My screen name here is Spots, many of you know my real name and a lot about my life, and I post as a Registered User at all times. I did not speak of any links or problems at ISAC. I was on Page One, being snitty because nobody wanted me enough to even give me a response to my bloody offer.
ISAC has it's place, and I found astonishing information when I spent hours moving through the cumbersome sight. One of the best was a Top Secret memo from Allen Dulles, first CIA Director, to J. Edgar Hoover, FBI, about the new phenomenon of Brain Washing of Korean POW's, what it was, and how to combat it by forewarning our soldiers of what may happen to them. Wouldn't it be nice if high schools across the US put a one-day lesson in their "social living"-type courses, outlining brainwashing. Then teens could make an informed reaction to behavior modification schools, religious fanatics, and even dinner-time TV ads slamming one political candidate after another. That's called Critical Thinking, but it's not taught much, as most high school teachers themselves don't know how to Critical Think.
Just KNOWING is powerful. I feel it is our bully pulpit here on Fornits to help the world to KNOW what really is happening.
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spots just shut the "F" up.
Thank you!
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// I would like the record to note that I was never unwilling to be contacted for info on Casa. Where on earth did you get that idea //
Well, maybe you don't recall, but we exchanged email on the subject and you told me you weren't interested in speaking to press or parents. I recall something along the lines of you did your advocating and educating by forum posting and that was as involved as you wanted to be. I seem to recall explanations about being busy with many things and not wanting personal entanglements.
I am OK with all that; I understand; and this is why I never gave out your email to questioning parents or press.
If you have changed you mind - Please tell me! I have often wished very much I could refer folks to you!
But anyway - this is why my question on the subject. I guess it sounded snappy (as so many others seem to think so) but I didn't mean for it to sound so.
// I have always felt my "anectdotal" comments on our WWASPS experiences were insightful for the ordinary searching parent, so that's what I mostly do. //
I agree; and as I said, I understand if that as much as you want to do.
So, I hope that clears up any misunderstand on this subject.
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Spots I like your idea on educating children about brainwashing! When I was in the 3rd grade we did a unit on advertising (I guess I had some groovy teachers, a vietnam vet for one!) and I still remember stuff from that. Since having been in an abusive institution I have wondered if only I had known a little more. As a teenager I had just read, on my own, that brainwashing involves starving people and keeping them up all night, which is not exactly what I saw when I was a cult prisoner, so I had a hard time maintaining my initial viewpoint when I went in that the people there were brainwashed.
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'Brainwashing' doesn't require food and sleep deprivation to be successful, they just hasten the process by inducing anxiety- fight or flight. Fight or flight is then punished. It sets up a dynamic between abuser and abuse. You're point is valid in terms of how people should be educated on the subject.
I feel my mom was 'brainwashed' by the baptist church she was raised in, and they certainly never starved her or interfered with her sleep.
What they did do was persistently create anxiety about evil and burning in hell. Convinced her that someone (god) was watching and judging her every thought and action. Convinced her that in order to be saved from burning in hell, she must repent and attend church regularly, oh, and read her bible and interpret it literally. That slow, but persistent 'conditioning' effected her in such a way that she will not miss a service unless there is a critical situation at hand... not just a fun family event that we all want her to attend.
The key ingredient... anxiety/fear.
Public schools don't starve or sleep deprive students and they certainly do their share of brainwashing/conditiong.
In the case of school, the key ingredient is inforced boredom, punishment for non compliance, and 12 years of persistent conditioning. Now I bet public school kids would not hear that from any (definitely most) of their teachers.
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ginger, adept troll here...kz just like i said...i've been off the pc for about a week and a half!!! come back to find both YOU & Judge Warbis accussing me of stirring the pot. Sorry both of you are dead wrong, again.
Ginger should be able to prove it via IP addys...definately didn't come from the home pc. no one has been at the house? laptop has been with me for the entire time? I didn't have any time for entertainment while i was away working. so...
so in the future; i suggest the two of you should argue amongst yourselfs while i'm not available & NOT blame little ole' ME! on ya'lls behalf, it does appear that some one has taken over in my absense though?
sorry, to disapoint the two of YOU!
out of hear,
the one & only "adept" troll
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Wow, then it really is one of your mindless followers w/ delusions of grandeur? :rofl:
I don't buy it, Lee. But I want to clear one thing up. Yes, I can see the IP address from which each post arrives. If I want to, I can even search the logs and recreate an entire session. But that doesn't identify for sure the person who's fingers, or even who's machine... or even who's internet access account it is. To get that info, I'd have to go all letigious and I'm really not that anal. Evidently, neither is anyone else around here as I've never gotten a subpoena for logging info. And the only time I've ever provided such info to any legal authority was over a matter of threats of physical violence.
Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception."
Mark Twain, The Mysterious Stranger, 1916, Ch.9
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On 2005-04-04 11:24:00, Deborah wrote:
In the case of school, the key ingredient is inforced boredom, punishment for non compliance, and 12 years of persistent conditioning. Now I bet public school kids would not hear that from any (definitely most) of their teachers.
Well, there are some pretty good monkey wrenchers in the machine. I was fortunate to have some of them as my own teachers when I was a kid. And I'm delighted to report that my own 15yo daughter has decided to take up the cause starting next fall at the local high school.
But we can't count on the school system to prepare our kids to recognize and resist it's own deleterious effects. We have to do that, no one else has a vested interest.
There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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On 2005-04-01 21:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yeah well guess what... The "Report a Broken Link" button doesn't work!
I'd copy and paste the link but guess what?
I CAN'T!!!!!!
Why?
Because NOTHING on their site can be copied and pasted!!
LAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
LOL---use Control C to copy.
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sorry girls...wasn't me.
i'll be traveling out of the country later in the week & traveling abroad for two weeks...so find some one else to trip on?
anal or not judge "g"; you are wrong??? and i love it...
back later, "adept" troll out!
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the sentence structure indicates someone with a higher education. just that alone should tell you it wasn't little ole' ME?
but i do like their style...
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On 2005-04-04 13:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-04-01 21:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yeah well guess what... The "Report a Broken Link" button doesn't work!
I'd copy and paste the link but guess what?
I CAN'T!!!!!!
Why?
Because NOTHING on their site can be copied and pasted!!
LAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
LOL---use Control C to copy. "
You don't use Ctrl c to copy Acrobat Reader, and again, who knows that who's not computer savvy?
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Well, I'm glad you're happy. But it really isn't such a coup d'état. I thought it was you. I asked if it were you. And you/they answered "Yeah, it's me, Lee Colburn". What am I supposed to think?
But this is far from demonstrating that the authorities must interpose to suppress these vices by commercial prohibitions, nor is it by any means evident that such intervention on the part of the government is really capable of suppressing them or that, even if this end could be attained, it might not therewith open up a Pandora's box of other dangers, no less mischievous than alcoholism and morphinism.
Ludwig Von Mises
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The answer is, just like usual...YOU DON'T think!!!!
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wrong again, judge...it ain't me. someone was leading you astray or impersenating an "adept" troll, imagine that? i never saw or read earlier they answered you "yes, this is lee?". that's what you get for ass/u/me (ing)!
should i proceed with charges against then? LOL
later,
"a" troll
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I find it interesting how this individual is again threatening charges agaist someone.
The person who was "impersonating" the man from Texas said the same thing a few post ago.
It's not him he claims. I see a pattern in the writing.
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On 2005-04-04 13:23:00, Antigen wrote:
" I'm delighted to report that my own 15yo daughter has decided to take up the cause starting next fall at the local high school."
::rocker::
you and your daughter!
deborah your comments on "brainwashing" being induced by anxiety is quite interesting. there was another thread recently about Pavlov and the dogs who forgot what they learned from him because they were in an extreme situation of fear. he figured out the connection. whalla, brainwashing or whatever you want to call it.
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Yeh, that was in the Jane Stillwater essay I posted last week. I particularly appreciated the style in which she conveyed that information. Instill an adequate amount of fear and you can control anyone, to a degree.