Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Program Rebellion on March 24, 2005, 05:11:00 PM
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I went to their website http://www.resourcerealizations.com/ (http://www.resourcerealizations.com/) and noticed they have a TON of 'trainers' and 'coaches' now, way more than before. Also, it seems they are focusing more on public seminars and are training more and more. It's a scary thought to imagine more of these nuts out there.
Are they still doing WWASP's seminars?
Do people ever protest outside of the seminars?
I can't believe how many seemingly intelligent people are getting scammed... I mean, they must have made descent money to send their kid off. any info about this company, and the situation regarding their seminars would be greatly appreciated.
Also, is Gilcrease still doing seminars himself? That guy is crazy!
[ This Message was edited by: WisdomFamily on 2005-03-24 14:11 ][ This Message was edited by: WisdomFamily on 2005-03-24 14:12 ]
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RR probably signed up with WWASPS to make money.
Remember, its a business, and not ALL businessmen and businesswomen have scruples.
But yeah. With the flak WWASPS is getting its only going to be a short trip up the paper trail to find RR's association, so maybe theyre trying to diversify and get away from the program? Or, they just wanna make more money.
Whatever man, its all just sensitivity training bullshit. When a "coach" or "trainer" talks about a 'program daughter', it reeks of cultish bullshit and frankly makes me have this tic... the left-hook-to-the-jaw tic I get when I see a parent talking about their kid like livestock.
He that lives upon hope will die fasting
--Benjamin Franklin 1758
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Niles, This is just one reason WHY WWASPS MUST BE ERADICATED. The PROGRAMS I refer too are PURE. No seminars. Just PURE TREATMENT.
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I am one of the good people in all of this.[ This Message was edited by: Lawsuit Sue on 2005-03-24 19:29 ]
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So thats why youre bitching on this website and being as secretive as WWASPS? :rofl:
Time to give us some real criteria of your programs and how you pick and refer to them... or how about some criteria of why you, or the program take a kid in?
One of my issues is kids in programs that dont need it. And, I would wager the *VAST* majority do not need it.
Also, why do you act soooooooooo secretive? Whats the reason of hiding what programs you refer to? The fucking website itself admits your funded by programs.
I wonder how long it would take to figure out that youre basically being paid for referrals... :grin:)T'is an ill wind that blows no minds.
--Syadasti
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Niles, if you would be kind enough to go through my prior posts, you will see the criteria that I require. As for why I feel a child would need a program, how about drug use? How about unfavorable peer relations? Those are just two reasons. You can look at my website for more examples if you wish. I WOULD NEVER SEND A CHILD TO A PROGRAM JUST TO COLLECT A REFERAL FEE. I do not disclose the programs I refer to because I respect the privacy of the enrolled child and their respecive families. I also do not want anyone to go on a mission to have a child removed from any facility. My programs allow contact with people out of the programs on an individual basis. It could be sooner for one child than for the next child. Also the parents decide about who they are allowed to contact and the extent to which the child is allowed to contact those contacts.I hope this answers your questions and thank you for your interest in Pure.
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Niles, if you would be kind enough to go through my prior posts, you will see the criteria that I require.
Why not tell us NOW, all at once, in one post, so its easier to reference to, and we know them all? And, I mean criteria both for intake of a child and for program consideration. What you FEEL and BELIEVE *DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING*.
As for why I feel a child would need a program, how about drug use? How about unfavorable peer relations? Those are just two reasons
Unfavorable peer relations? What kind of nebulous, meaningless, generalized bullshit is that? Getting bullied or having an arguement is reason for program incarceration? PUH-LEEZE. And as far as drug use... sorry to say it, but drug use is not drug ABUSE. Furthermore, there is a spectrum of 'problem' and spectrum of how much you need to do to fix it. A kid who drinks a beer or smokes a cig doesnt need to go to a program. Its NORMAL.
I WOULD NEVER SEND A CHILD TO A PROGRAM JUST TO COLLECT A REFERAL FEE.
Sure, I believe you. Suuuuurrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeee.... whats your day job?
I do not disclose the programs I refer to because I respect the privacy of the enrolled child and their respecive families. I also do not want anyone to go on a mission to have a child removed from any facility. My programs allow contact with people out of the programs on an individual basis.
Ok, lets take this apart shall we?
1. You dont disclose them so if shit goes down you cant be traced back as easy and held accountable. You're covering your ass, just fucking admit it. If you've been lurking here long enough you'll realize its not going to cut the mustard with me.
2. You dont want a mission to have a kid removed from your faciliity because it would look bad for you if someone found out shit was going down bad. OOPS. Go tell that to Chi3. She got her kid out, oops. Oh wait, its the same WWASPS program your kid was in. oooooppppppppssssss?
3. "My programs allow contact with people out of the programs on a individual basis" I'll take anal bum covers for $200, Alex. (If you dont get it look up celebrity jeopardy). Way to cover your ass. That way the programs could not allow any outside contact at all and its okay, but its still "individual basis" so people think theres acutally a process.
WWASPS could just fucking SAY it and not do that, you know.
But at any rate, there is *NO* reason, AT ALL, to isolate and incarcerate a child in a program unless they broke a law (and jails are not programs and programs are not supposed to be jails) or a DOCTOR, with a PHD, peer review, license, all that shit, has a specific reason to isolate them from specific people. Such as abusive parents, cults, etc. Most programs dont have docs and dont actually have a process for communication to the outside except for level-climbing, ass kissing, and acting like you're told. *BULLSHIT METER BEEEEEEEEEP*
Also, as you said (but I didnt quote) parents can decide to a degree who THEIR kids can contact, but there is *NO* reason to not allow them communication to the authorities at any time for any reason, period. Same for legal representation.
BTW, my only interest in PURE is watching it actually follow the standards it says others should be held to. There is no reform or regulation in place. You say you dont send for referral fees, yet the programs fund you. Having a fucking laundry list of "reasons to send a kid to a program" isnt the same as having reasonable criteria.
Most kids grow up fine without intervention. PURE is a business and its funded by referrals. Your gonna say whatever you can to get people to send their kid to your place. Has PURE or any of its programs actually turned away a kid who didnt need it?
I doubt it. Just as much as I doubt your program picking abilities.
As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher
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::troll::
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On 2005-03-24 14:11:00, WisdomFamily wrote:
"I went to their website http://www.resourcerealizations.com/ (http://www.resourcerealizations.com/) and noticed they have a TON of 'trainers' and 'coaches' now, way more than before. Also, it seems they are focusing more on public seminars and are training more and more. It's a scary thought to imagine more of these nuts out there.
Are they still doing WWASP's seminars?
Do people ever protest outside of the seminars?
I can't believe how many seemingly intelligent people are getting scammed... I mean, they must have made descent money to send their kid off. any info about this company, and the situation regarding their seminars would be greatly appreciated.
Also, is Gilcrease still doing seminars himself? That guy is crazy!
[ This Message was edited by: WisdomFamily on 2005-03-24 14:11 ][ This Message was edited by: WisdomFamily on 2005-03-24 14:12 ]"
Resource Realizations just runs the public seminars now. They are in the same business as LifeSpring (where many of them learnt their trade) and it's big brother Landmark Forum. Some people will pay good money to be brainwashed (or can be brainwashed into paying good money) and they don't even have to have kids.
The WWASP work is now done by Premier Educational Systems LLC. Same people, different company, smoke and mirrors.
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This is all interesting. Do you guys have websites for both ends of the spectrum?
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You are so very right!!! There is never a reason to privately incarcerate a child and cut off all communications to the outside world. I have close personal knowledge of a girl who was sent to Mission Mountain School in Montana. While this is not a WWASPS program, apparently many of the same tactics are used. The secrecy surrounding this place is amazing, I don't think they even have a website. I have known one of this child's grandmothers for many years, and neither of the grandmothers are allowed any communication with their granddaughter, nor are her many cousins, aunts and uncles. The situation has torn this very large family apart beyond repair. There are at least 25 relatives who are strongly opposed to this child's incarceration, a half dozen of whom would have gladly taken the child and raised her, but the parents would not hear of it. There are over 20 cousins affected by this, most old enough to know what is going on. Half of these kids no longer see one another (they all live in close proximity), because their parents have taken sides and no longer speak. These programs claim to "bring families back together", WHAT A JOKE!!!Tell that to this family.
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Thanks for the info. I was wondering why there was no mention of WWASP on the RR site anymore. The site used to publish info about the family seminars, dates and everything. Looks like they are getting more secret.
I also can't seem to find a copy of 'The Source' online. It used to be downloadable. Reading that magazine was surreal... total bullshit.
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Do people ever protest outside of the seminars?
Good idea! How about leafleting the other guests? They may not like sharing a hotel with a bunch of cultish child abusers. If the hotel considers it bad for business they won't be so welcome next time.
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Niles, being that you are not adept at navigating this forum, I will reiterate. Criteria for program consideration of a child would be I recieve a call from a concerned parent/parents. The parent/parents then tell me their situation with their child.I respond with feedback regarding how I feel this situation be best handled. If I Feel that a program is not necessary, I WILL NOT REFER THE CHILD TO A PROGRAM.I then sound off other ideas. Those ideas can range from finding a mentor to outpatient therapy.Intake criteria would be I and the parents have come to the conclusion that a program would be the best route to go.Unfavorable peer relations can be hanging out with drug users and getting into trouble with law because of hanging out with law breakers to name two.DRUG USE can quickly turn into DRUG ABUSE.In those situations , I leave it to the parents to gauge the seriousness of the drug use.Do you expect me and/or programs to have a child see a lawyer EVERY TIME a child makes a complaint?! In that case, lawyers would be talking to children around the clock.As for contacts such as friends, family, etc., If the parents are ok with it, they will be allowed to do so at specified times.My other source of income is none of your or anyone's concern but myself. I have on more than one occasion reccemended alternative solutions such as mentoring and outpatient therapy.Contrary to your beliefs and those of others, I do not receive calls for help from parents simply because their child stole a Backstreet Boys CD from the local Walmart. They concerns are VERY LEGITIMATE.Sometimes it leads to a program. sometimes it doesn't.I hope this eases your mind and thank you again for your interest in Pure.
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I am one of the good people in all of this.[ This Message was edited by: Lawsuit Sue on 2005-03-25 18:13 ]
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Uhuh... lets clip from your website there lady...
* Teen Addiction
* Teen violence/Rage/Anger
* Teen Truancy
* Teen Substance Abuse (Drug &
Alcohol Abuse)
* Teen Depression
* Teen Gangs
* Teen Runaways
* Teen Suicide
* Teen Cults
* Troubled Teens, Problem Teens
* Struggling Teens At Risk Teens
* Underachiever, Lacks Motivation
* ADD/ADHD/LD/ODD and Bipolar Teens
* Peer Pressure
* Defiant, Disrespectful and Rebellious Teens
* Military Schools and Academies
* Behavior Modification Programs
* Alternative Schools and Programs
* Residential Treatment facilities
* Therapeutic Boarding Schools
* Boarding Schools for Struggling Teens
* Tough Love
* Adoption
This is a paste straight from the PURE website. http://www.helpyourteens.com/services.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/services.html) to be exact. Seems like a fucking laundry list of what most teenagers go through, period, anyway. And a lot of them are soooo fucking vague it could be applied to ANY normal kid. Its real nice to hear that oh you only take the real bad cases and you PERSONALLY make that determination as if youre qualified to do a god damned thing, but theres no proof of it. Just the fact that PURE is funded by programs, and at least some of those referred-to-programs werent as good as they should've been.
The second paragraph just seems to be either a spamdex, or just saying you'll basically do anything! wow! Money money money....
Start putting out some proof and holding yourself accountable there, Lawsueit Sue. You still wont admit all the programs you admit to and you still havent answered anything behind that bullshit secrecy they use. "case by case basis" is a copout.
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
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http://controlledminds.blogspot.com/ (http://controlledminds.blogspot.com/)
The company structure of the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools? (WWASPS/Teen Help) is detailed in this report http://www.isaccorp.org/wwasps.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/wwasps.html) that includes information on Resource Realizations/Premier Educational Systems, the for-profit company that provides mandatory seminars required by the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) for the teens and parents associated with the program. The seminars (such as Discovery, Focus and Visions) seemingly are built on the cults of est and Lifespring, as indicated by this International Survivors Action Committee document http://www.isaccorp.org/lifespring/life ... hology.pdf (http://www.isaccorp.org/lifespring/lifespringpathology.pdf) and http://www.rickross.com/groups/lifespring.html (http://www.rickross.com/groups/lifespring.html).
Resource Realizations/Premier Educational Systems prominently appeared in the US media when company founder David Gilcrease, a former Lifespring facilitator for five years who in 1986 had started his own company, peddled three-day seminars to US middle school students during the ?Challenge Day? workshop (run by a separate company) http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... _86868928; (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_18_18/ai_86868928;)
According to this article http://www.isaccorp.org/wwasps/rrarticle1.htm (http://www.isaccorp.org/wwasps/rrarticle1.htm) the event had been arranged by Ms. Anciaux Aoki. Her own website http://www.anciauxinternational.com/res ... x_Aoki.pdf (http://www.anciauxinternational.com/resume/Michele_Anciaux_Aoki.pdf) makes for interesting reading. Ms. Anciaux Aoki is deeply involved in the American public education system. Her influence on American students is significant. Her contributions to School-Family-Community Partnership programs and her work (scroll down) as a volunteer ?for numerous personal growth seminars? presented by Resource Realizations/Premier Educational Systems (Discovery, Focus, and Visions), as well as her membership on the Board of Directors of the Northwest Family Visions Foundation http://www.nwfamilyvisions.org/newslett ... ome%20from (http://www.nwfamilyvisions.org/newsletter.htm#come%20from), should be reason for serious concern. (The board members of this organization are graduates of several World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools/Teen Help seminars http://www.nwfamilyvisions.org/whoweare.htm (http://www.nwfamilyvisions.org/whoweare.htm) and appear to be firm followers of the teachings).
The Discovery, Focus and Visions seminars are at the heart of alleged brainwashing techniques applied to the children who have been placed in facilities associated with the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) as well as their parents http://www.isaccorp.org/lifespring/life ... hology.pdf (http://www.isaccorp.org/lifespring/lifespringpathology.pdf).
With great skill Challenge Day and Resource Realizations/Premier Educational Systems have managed to infiltrate the American school system.
But it gets worse. It appears that teachers and principals working for the US public school system readily support organizations such as World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools/Teen Help with membership in this association ?Northwest Association of Accredited Schools? (NAAS) http://www2.boisestate.edu/nasc/interna ... visits.htm (http://www2.boisestate.edu/nasc/international_visits.htm). It should be noted that Eugenia Collins, Dace Goulding and Orval Hagerman, all members of the Northwest Association of Accredited Schools (NAAS), are employees at various World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools/Teen Help facilities and appear also in documents posted by the International Survivors Action Committee!!!
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I believe the list you provided can each be a reason to send a child to a program by itself.For instance take depression. To what extent is the depression? How long has he/she been depressed? To what extent is the child depressed? Does it effect his/her schoolwork? Is he/she considering suicide or physical harm? Sometimes anti-depresants such as Zoloft are the only thing required. Sometimes it is necessary to enroll a child into a program.I hope this eases your mind and I thank you once again for your interest in Pure.
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I am one of the good people in all of this.[ This Message was edited by: Lawsuit Sue on 2005-03-25 18:38 ]
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Niles, I do not believe anything said by a Susan Scheff Troll, Susan Scheff herself, or anyone from organizations such as WWASPS will ever convince you to change your current way of thinking.
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God helps those who help themselves. Take marriage seriously. Once the Wedding Ring goes on the finger, it stays on the finger.[ This Message was edited by: BSarro on 2005-03-25 18:48 ]
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Two of the reasons we get such a bad rep is because people like some of those who post here and THE Media believe the MANIPULATIVE KIDS. That is one reason why THE kids are in programs to begin with. They are MANIPULATIVE. [ This Message was edited by: Pepper Spray Jay on 2005-03-26 10:51 ]
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::troll:: ::troll:: Don't do it! :lol:
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On 2005-03-25 18:37:00, Lawsuit Sue wrote:
"I believe the list you provided can each be a reason to send a child to a program by itself.For instance take depression. To what extent is the depression? How long has he/she been depressed? To what extent is the child depressed? Does it effect his/her schoolwork? Is he/she considering suicide or physical harm? Sometimes anti-depresants such as Zoloft are the only thing required. Sometimes it is necessary to enroll a child into a program.I hope this eases your mind and I thank you once again for your interest in Pure.
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I am one of the good people in all of this.[ This Message was edited by: Lawsuit Sue on 2005-03-25 18:38 ]"
I was terrible about my homework, and didnt give a shit about school, until college started, but I still managed to ace every test I took and came out just fine, not counting the financial situation my father put me in.
I was also depressed a lot because of my dad's lack of ability to be a father, and because schools in the USA suck more or less now. I also had a semantic-pragmatic disorder... in other words, I didnt properly understand what people meant with everything they said, and said things 'weird' because I didnt know how they'd interpret what I told them. It was 'fixed' by having some good friends, some of which older than my age group (people in their 30s and 40s), and some weekly therapy for one hour.
Had I been put in a program I would have either just been locked up for a few years and put up with boredom and bullshit, or ended up in one of the bad ones and been destroyed. There's NO reason I needed a program and I came out just fine but I'm sure you would have referred my mother if she was stupid enough to call you!
What it comes down to is
1. if you dont enroll kids you make no money!
2. you have basically listed *EVERY* problem that a teenager might have and none of them require program incarceration!
3. *YOU* make the determination? WTF are you? A doctor? What qualifications do you have? NONE!
Also - I know this isn't sue, but I'm sure Sue is *READING* this, and other parents on the forum are, so why not go for it? Next best thing to chewing her out on Hardball or some other cable TV show :grin: Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-03-26 13:18 ]
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Hi Niles, Susan asked me to address you because she is currently arranging to have a troubled young man to be escorted to Whitmore. I would like to point out that Susan is one of the most nicest people that I have been privledged to meet and work with.Like Susan pointed out, SHE WOULD NEVER REFER A KID THAT DID NOT ONE HUNDRED PERCENT NEED A PROGRAM.NONE OF US AT PURE WOULD EVER WANT A KID REMOVED FROM HIS PLACE OF RESIDENCE FOR ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY.If PURE never has to refer a kid ever again, WE WILL BE AMONG THE MOST HAPPIEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. I hope this eases your mind and once again, thank you for your interest in Pure.
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Sorry, thought I was logged in. The above post was from me.
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the original question was about RR and their affiliation with WWASPS> Anon. answered this. RR IS PREMIERE! How do I know this? David Gilcrease posted to me about my child a mere 6 weeks ago. He monitors the WWASPS bulletin boards and posts regularly. If neccessary I can probably find you some exact quotes. RR handles seminars from companies and LGAT(large group awareness training) for anyone else that wants it. Premiere handles all wwasps seminars. Same exact company, same exact people. I know, I've met them. Most of the facilitators submit articles to the Source magazine each month. Have they ever been sued for their actions? YES!!!! Inside and Outside of WWASPS. And they have lost.
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My parents really thought they were doing the right thing by sending me to Provo Canyon School. Now that THEY have grown up a bit, they realize that these things on Sue's "list" really are just things that most adolescents will go through. Indeed, I would be suspicious of an adolescent who did not experience some of these things, as I think one would find that such a person would grow up to have no character.
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You ever have a teen so close to ending thier life that you would do anything to save them? No? Well until you do, you will never understand.
To quote the "seemingly inteligent person" maybe it is you who is not seemingly inteligent. When you guys talk of cults it makes me laugh my ass off. :rofl: if only you guys knew what you were talking about... oh well I guess we all have our own opinions. I don't think it is any more fare to criticize WWASP or the parents who send thier teens there than it is to criticize someone from another religion. You guys go around ragging on Catholics or Christians or Jews? Didn't think so.
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Actually they do rag on religious beliefs outside of their tiny little worldviews.
Go into Search and type in Mormon or Christian, etc.,
From what I've read, if it's something they either don't want to understand or they are afraid of it, it's labeled a cult.
Resource Realizations/ Coaching/ Seminars are all about paradigm shifts, change, opening your eyes to different possibilities. BTW, this is about YOU, not about what they want you to be or do...LOL! Cult - cult ivate your mind.
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On 2005-04-03 13:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
Resource Realizations/ Coaching/ Seminars are all about paradigm shifts, change, opening your eyes to different possibilities.
But it's all done on false pretense, at least wrt the parents who have placed kids in programs where the seminars are required of the parents. And it's done by some underhanded tactics. They intentionally get the participants off-balance, fatigued, overwhelmed and vulnerable before presenting these new ideas. When you're addled and fatigued like that, you're not thinking clearly. It's essentially the same method that organizations like Mary Kay use to get young housewives to blow the family budget on a bunch of cosmetics no one will buy. I think RR is just a little more sophisticated and ruthless in their approach.
As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher
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Fatigued, etc.? Is that true or are you stating what you've heard?
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You ever have a teen so close to ending thier life that you would do anything to save them?
If your teen is truly suicidal, then what they need is treatment at a psychiatric HOSPITAL.
Only there will they receive intense treatment from real PROFESSIONALS!
These facilities are staffed with DOCTORS and NURSES; THEY are the ones who will examine your child, evaluate their findings, come up with a plan of care, and implement it. They will also work with the parent to come up with a long-term plan of care.
It is dangerous and neglectful to leave a mentally ill child in the hands of a group of uneducated, non-professionals who claim they will help your child. They are not qualified to do so.
Please, seek PROFESSIONAL help.
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On 2005-04-03 19:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Is that true or are you stating what you've heard?"
The two are not mutually incompatible. I have seen many a post defending the "seminars" but not one that disputes the long hours. Are you insinuating they don't last as long as we have been led to believe? Then come right out and say it. How many hours do participants spend in the seminars and over what period of time?
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The first seminar is about 38 hours long and it covers 3 days. Friday-Sunday. They could always lengthen the amount of days it goes over but how many parents can take that time off of work? If you check out the facilites, they have PROFESSIONAL therapists availble for the teens. No therapy is done by staff members. Anything else you would like to argue?
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On top of the 38 hours in the seminars, how long does the homework take?
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Oh Please! It's 25 hours at best. Asleep by midnight, back by 9am the next morning. Most people are asleep when their heads hit the pillow by midnight and don't have to be back until 9 the next morning. I define sleep deprived as 0-5 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period. Ever worked on a project over a long weekend? If you haven't - then you wouldn't understand being so busy you don't notice the time. Is there a scaredy cat icon??
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Excuses, Excuses, Excuses...
Its ridiculous for something would take so long, and minimizing one EXCESSIVELY long seminar into one thats just... lower-case excessively long isnt going to make it better, youre just playing on perception.
Oh wait, youre defending A SEMINAR! Its what you do, manipulate people!
Theres no reason for any of it to take so long or work in the way it works unless youre fucking with people psycholgoically. We've all read the accounts of the seminars, and seen how they parallel interrogation or straight raps.
Then you go and compare this to something normal, like working on a project, and the "scardey cat" thing is humorous. Already trying to play off emotions are we?The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.
--John Gilmour
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The first seminar is about 38 hours long and it covers 3 days.
Oh Please! It's 25 hours at best.
I find it amusing that the pro-WWASP people can't even sing from the same hymn sheet.
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On 2005-04-06 09:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"On top of the ?? hours in the seminars, how long does the homework take?"
In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
--Martin Luther King
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I remember reading a rather detailed report by a parent who attended one of these seminars and who claimed some educational background in psyche. She had the opinion that, given the highly emotional and stressful tone of these seminars, that a psyche professional or three should be onhand to handle any emergencies.
What happens when someone loses it in on of these seminars? If you've been to a good many of them, I'm guessing you've had some experience w/ this scenareo. So tell us all what they do when some parent breaks down and becomes very agitated. How do they handle it?I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father and inventor
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On 2005-04-07 07:45:00, Antigen wrote:
"I remember reading a rather detailed report by a parent who attended one of these seminars and who claimed some educational background in psyche. She had the opinion that, given the highly emotional and stressful tone of these seminars, that a psyche professional or three should be onhand to handle any emergencies.
What happens when someone loses it in on of these seminars? If you've been to a good many of them, I'm guessing you've had some experience w/ this scenareo. So tell us all what they do when some parent breaks down and becomes very agitated. How do they handle it?I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father and inventor
"
This is what happened when someone broke down in one of the LifeSpring LGATs from which the RR/Premier seminars are derived:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/eldon.braun/awa ... hology.htm (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/pathology.htm)
Patrick, leaped up and took the position of the trainer on the podium. Initially it appeared that Patrick was acting out against the trainer by mocking him and by ignoring rules. However, it soon became apparent that he had decompensated--his speech was incoherent, he was out of contact with reality, and he appeared to be hallucinating. The trainer approached him and told him to stop "game playing." His "other choice" was to "go to a place where they allow people to play crazy games." Patrick merely gazed vacantly at the trainer and continued to mutter Lifespring phrases. Various participants, responded by encouraging Patrick to "go for it" and "let it all out." They did not understand that he had already "let too much out." His apparently fragile defenses had been repeatedly challenged by the trainer, who hid often accused him of "bullshitting,"
When it became clear that Patrick was unable to pull himself together, the other participants were asked to leave the room. We gathered outside, initially stunned by what had transpired. Then the group coalesced into a "circle of love," initiated by several members, out of the desire to "send Patrick our energy." The group was clearly attempting to provide comfort to its members in an upsetting situation. What was remarkable was the level of denial and misinterpretation of what had occurred. The group transformed Patrick's psychotic episode into a positive experience by using the categories of reasoning provided by the training. Drawing upon the infantile omnipotence encouraged by earlier sessions, some of the participants declared that "we are going to heal Patrick-he'll feel our energy." Others commented cheerfully that "he is getting in touch with his feelings" and "whatever he chooses is right for him, it's the very best for him." After Patrick had been spirited away, the group reconvened to continue the training. What could have been an occasion for discussing what had happened, including the impact of the training on Patrick, instead stimulated an outpouring of testimonials.
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Wow... good old psychobullshit, just like everything else I've read about these stupid "seminars"
Dont you want the BEST brainwashing for your kids? :roll: I really dont understand how a normal, coherant person can be programmed and conditioned to think this is normal or beneficial... or for that matter not-harmful! To them being afraid of a seminar is like being afraid of going to a dentist.
Having your MIND pulled open with a psychological crowbar and fucked with is not the same as anxiety about needles or dentistry. But well, I guess when being in a setting like a seminar, or a program is programmed to be normal and necessary, its not that unexpected that people would start to think that way.The inspiration of the Bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
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Does it really make a difference? SOme seminars are shorter than others. Could be 25 hours, could be 28 hours. Homework is different for each person. Mine took about 30 minutes in the first seminar. Depends on if you do it or not, too. I didn't lose any sleep over it as I'm a night person anyway and only sleep about 7 hours a night anyway. I had more than enough time for everything. It was only 2 and a half days out of the rest of my life! What a waste of time to argue something so insignificant.
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Waste of time to argue about something so insignifigant? Maybe to you, not to us.
We're not warped programmies who think going to a seminar is normal, necessary, or even beneficial - so dont try to talk down to us as if we're recalcitrant children who dont want to get a physical or go to a dentist.
Also, a "seminar" to achieve "emotional growth" or whatever buzzword the marketers came out with after quantum and ontological fell through because someone picked up a fucking dictionary (or went to college) should not be as stressful or painful as pulling teeth. Its nothing but degrading mind-games and psychological stressors, including how LONG the seminar itself is. Sleep deprevation's effects are well known to professionals, but maybe not to you.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#93752 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9053&forum=9#93752)
There, a link just for you! Click it. How do you defend that bullshit, huh? Can you? I'd *LOVE* to see what you'd pull out of your aquatic ass. Humiliation, degredation in other forms, psychological stress and attack, and sleep deprevation are not therapy. Its softening up your skull so Gilcrease can beat his bullshit into it with a mallet.
Now, go scurry away from any reply whatsoever, or make some bullshit dodge-the-question non-reply and ignore this, or make up new shit and talk about that instead of the things I brought up like a good little sheep.
The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.
-- John Adams, (1772)
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On 2005-04-07 14:23:00, Dolphin wrote:
What a waste of time to argue something so insignificant. "
Didn't seem like it was insignificant to Patrick in the post above. :eek: