Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore => Topic started by: Cayo Hueso on March 19, 2005, 12:22:00 AM
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Where is everybody? All of a sudden all communications stop? Supporters and detractors? What's going on?
The right of self-defense is the first law of nature . . and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.
--St. George Tucker, in his edition of Blackstone's Commentaries
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Seems like no one is "home." Heard they were off to Mexico. Huh?
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Kind of strange huh... breath of fresh air though! Maybe we can actually have a decent forum and get some useful information posted without all the BS and deflection. What do ya say??
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On 2005-03-19 10:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Kind of strange huh... breath of fresh air though! Maybe we can actually have a decent forum and get some useful information posted without all the BS and deflection. What do ya say??"
There was a whole lot of useful information within those threads. The ways those people shredded each other and some of the things described as having gone on gave some really good insight into what might going on in there.
Where are these kids now? There's been talk that they're moving them down to Mexico. What happened to the kids who were out of Whitmore and coming here speaking out about some of the things they witnessed in there? What's happened to them?It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
Thomas Jefferson
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Reply to thread: Nephi
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What happened to them? Maybe they got a life and figured out just what a waste of time this forum is.
Why don't you focus on helping yourself instead of bashing others. You guys are a bunch of losers.
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and you would be....? a loser too?
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I don't consider this forum a waste of time at all.
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No One Around? That just reinforces what I thought all along: The Sudweeks have taken the kids to Mexico? Now all the postings have stopped? Well, seems like all the postings from "STUDENTS, SUPPORTIVE PARENTS, FORMER STUDENTS..." just went away TOO!!! Well, I've believed all along that MOST OF THESE POSTINGS have come from ONE PLACE---Cheryl Sudweeks and Whitmore Academy. So if she is out of touch with her computer, of course there's no postings! Cherly sits around and fabricates postings using students' names, so it appears she has support, and to humiliate parents and former student. IF NOT--where are the supportive parents, former students NOW???? If Cheryl controlling them from Mexico? Don't think so. Cheryl IS THE former students...Cheryl IS THE supportive parents...Cheryl IS THE Whitmore students. She is a manipulative freak.
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Either way it sure says a lot about what's going on in there and what those kids are being taught. If it WAS Cheryl posing as them, well that's just very obviously twisted, if it was kids or parents who are supporting her, it shows what they've learned from her/Whitmore. Very scary either way!!! :scared: Did you guys see the post from a kid claiming to be IN there and said that Cheryl was standing there watching while he posted?????
In all history, there is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare. Only one who knows the disastrous effects of a long war can realize the supreme importance of rapidity in bringing it to a close. It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war who can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on.
--Sun Tzu (author of The Art of War
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I think, that does happen. Probably a little supervision going on there.
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I read the posting saying Cheryl was right there. Someone brought up the Provo movie incident, and WHOEVER was posting went nutts. It was strange the way it went. The minute someone confronted Cheryl about her behavior at the movie's that evening--the posting from that end just got out of control. Yes, I believe most of the postings are done by Cheryl herself,too. I think you just pretends to be the students and says these horrible things about Leah, and the girl Annalisa (sp?) to intimidate and hurt them.
I also have my doubts if Mr.Bean/Elliot is actually posting himself. I know that there has been a conflict between this former student, his parents and the Sudweeks---so I would be surprised is this young boy is doing all this posting. I could be dead wrong, but I do not think it is Elliot.
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Hi Joyce,
Chris here. I can confirm that Elliot is responsible for his postings. I talk to him on the telephone and via AIM often. He is also coming up to visit Chicago sometime around Easter.
~~ chris
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more parties just came on board.takes time to get up to speed....DEPO'S, documentation.district attorney review................going to get to the TRUTH...............Sudweeks are CRIMINALS....................the facts support the action...........INTO ACTION..........GATEKEEPER...............AMF
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Hi Chris,
Glad to know that no one is just using Elliot's name.
Put in a good word for Elliot and tell your friend, Cheryl, to send this kid his transcript!
Spring Break time? You guys be good and have fun, then.
Hope your classes are going well.
Do you know who the poet/poetress is?
She/he dedicated one especially to you.
Strange, huh?
Have a nice Easter.
Joyce
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All of a sudden everyone is perfect little students and not posting? Right. Cheryl is off in Mexico and has not internet. SHE DOES ALL THE POSTINGS. There is no Elliot...or Whitmore Alumni...or "other former students."
Cheryl's bluff has been called! What a joke. She talks to herself, and hides behind kids' names. She must be the one who spews out all this hate towards Leah, Erica, Zita, and all the other kids. Whew....probably even uses Chris' name too. Thought Tori's mom would fill in for her,...??????
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Sue Scheff will be the next inmate at Whitmore.
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That cunt? You're kidding! Really? :lol:
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Not kidding in the least, my friend. I hear that Bob Litchfield's gonna bend that bitch over in front of the group too! :rofl: :wave:
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You gotta be kidding. Seems more like Sue Scheff has "teamed" up with Bob Litchfield. Litchfield has filed a suit against ISAC who posted the Statements by Joyce Harris and Leah's grandmother. And from reading the threads under Teen Industry---it appears that Sue Scheff is just giddy with the news, because she wants ISAC to pull the Statment against Whitmore, because the Statements don't flatter Scheff or PURE either. And Sue Scheff was in litagation against WWASP forever!!! But, guess it seems like Scheff will switch sides to fight for Whitmore, or that's how it appears, anyway. That's just my opinion. NASTY LITTLE MESS. Now if Sue Scheff fought so hard in court to be able to voice HER OPINIONS about abusive programs, JUST WONDER why she doesn't believe everyone has the same right she has? Doesn't seem fair , now does it?
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No shit?!?!?!?! HAHAHAAHA!!!!!!
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I posted under the thread: Teen Industry,
Topic: "Time for some damn answers from PURE."
Just had to respond to someone who said Sue Scheff referred to me as "crazy, evil, liar, and ugly." Read it there.
Maybe the "hacker" of my computer shared my photographs with Ms. Scheff....because she has never seen me, so how could she have an opinion about my personal appearance? These people just keep backing themselves into little corners, don't they?
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You gotta be kidding. Seems more like Sue Scheff has "teamed" up with Bob Litchfield.
But she'll get hers in the end! :rofl:
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I hate hearing that. SHITTY people never get their's in the end (no pun intended).
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I believe she will get hers one day. She sold her soul all in the name of greed and power.
Sue Scheff is a transparent, typical SELL OUT that will pay one day..trust me.
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I hate hearing that. SHITTY people never get their's in the end (no pun intended).
Why do you hate hearing it? Sometimes they ~do in fact get theirs in the end..
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On 2005-03-21 11:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I hate hearing that. SHITTY people never get their's in the end (no pun intended).
Why do you hate hearing it? Sometimes they ~do in fact get theirs in the end.."
Hang onto that thought. Its important.
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IF (I said IF) Sue Scheff was the THIRD PARTY referred to in the ISAC rebuttal, then she was called a liar just as firmly as Mark Sudweeks. This THIRD PARTY told lies about Joyce Harris, and "backed up these lies" by saying these so-called-facts about Joyce Harris were being read from a non-existing police report.
It's not acceptable for people to lie about somebody, and claim they acquired the information from a NON-EXISTING police report. And when confronted for this type of behavior: IS THIS NOT THE TIME TO STEP FORWARD, AND AT LEAST UTTER TWO LITTLE WORDS TO THIS MOTHER:
"I'M SORRY."
What made Mark Sudweeks and this THIRD PARTY believe they would not be confronted about thier lies? From the moment these accusations were made, Joyce Harris posted, using her name, denying all accusations that she abused her daughter and that Officer Wright from the Nephi Police Department who escorted the parents to Whitmore could verify that no abuse happend.
Did Mark Sudweeks and this THIRD PARTY believe they could continue to slander this mother without any confrontation?
ISAC published Officer Wright's "Keeping the Peace" report---and it verifies that Joyce Harris did not pull the girl's hair, or abuse her. This report did not exist until ISAC requested a copy of the report from the Harris's. The Harris's called Office Wright that day and asked him to prepare a statement. Therefore--neither Mark Sudweeks, nor the THIRD PARTY could not have have been reading from a police report, BECAUSE no police report existed prior to the request made by the Harris's. Sudweeks and the THIRD PARTY plainly LIED.
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It seems very unfair that ISAC is being sued by Litchfield/WWASP. And IF Sue Scheff is gleeful about this, that is a shame. Can see that Sue Scheff might have some greed working from referring kids to programs, because a lot of money is made from this. But power--what's that about? What Power? Can't see any power in having a few people maybe believing that she might possibly be performing a bit of "good" in the industry. But IF Sue has anything, any tiny bit to do with this WWASP suit against ISAC, any respect,---any thought of GOODNESS she might have had in this industry, might just crumble at her feet. We are still talking about kids in abusive programs, aren't we?
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On 2005-03-21 11:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I believe she will get hers one day. She sold her soul all in the name of greed and power.
Sue Scheff is a transparent, typical SELL OUT that will pay one day..trust me.
"
I absolutely disagree w/ this statement. This is, of course, my opinion based on what I know and on what I presume. Call it prescience if it pans out, foolishness if it doesn't.
But here's my take on Sue and PURE at this time. There's not a nickle's worth of difference between PURE and WWASP. I think Sue and the people who support her are every bit as sincere in their beliefs and dedicated to doing what they think is right as the WWASP people.
Now, it may be hard for most people to imagine that people like Peppery Spray Jay could possibly believe in what they do. Or even that our frequent anon poster here could possibly believe in the same cause. But I think they believe it just as strongly as any young Muslim who ever strapped a bomb to himself and detonated it in a crowd of people he deemed to be infidels. (here's to hoping this saga never comes to that! ::cheers:: )
But here's the rediculously funny part. So far, as more information becomes available about just what kind of programs Sue deems to be better than WWASPS programs, they seem to lean less toward the overly regimented, clean cut variety and more toward the more classic image of a hippy love cult. Back in the `70's when this industry really started taking root, one of the specters they used to scare the living shit out of parents was the prospect of their confused and rebellious teenager joining the Manson Family or The Farm (Maggie's farm, per Bob Dylan) or following The Dead or some similar group. These hippy love cults, they said, would lure unsupecting, troubled youths w/ love bombing and Utopian dreams of perfect harmony and communal life and then turn them against their own families. Now, somehow, they're getting parents to pay big bucks to do just that!
:roll:
As de dawg chases his tail...Understand that legal and illegal are political, and often arbitrary,
categorizations; use and abuse are medical, or clinical, distinctions.
--Abbie Hoffman
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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Yeh, I was getting a sense of that too with the 'subliminals', etc.
That is risky business. Definitely sounds like new-agey affirmationy stuff. Ya need to be careful with that stuff. I've read that in order to be useful at all, the subliminals need to be carefully constructed. The use of one wrong word could be detrimental. Was this woman certified? Self taught?
Also, considered 'evil' and of the 'devil' by most religious people. I'm curious... did any of you christian/religious parents understand that your child would be doing affirmations and subjected to subliminals? Or was it not a concern?
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As a parent I did not know anything about subliminals until I read the first weekly reports on the Whitmore weblogs written by the students. I emailed and emailed asking what are subliminals? This question was only answered in a vague way--BUT I knew from the reports that the kids MUST DO THEM, and were PUNISHED if they didn't do them, and lost privileges for not doing them. SO, I knew it wasn't some take-it-or-leave it exercise. From postings on this forum, I now understand what subliminals might be. Why does Cheryl Sudweeks find them so important? What HER is real purpose? Does SHE have any formal training in subliminals? Is this a good or bad idea? What are the subliminals based on? I do not know the answer to any of these questions.
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You guys are reading too much into this subliminal stuff.
THEY ARE MOTIVATIONAL CASSETTES RECORDED BY KAROL TRUMAN. Look her up on Amazon.com. "I FEEL HAPPY" "I AM HAPPY" over 'soothing' music. I don't think you need to get "certified" in order to hand cassettes out to kids so they can play them in the morning. I was at my mom's house and I looked in my step dad's CD player and he had "THE POWER OF NOW" in it. Maybe I should've confiscated the CD because as far as I know, he doesn't have any formal training in subliminals. The tapes don't have any religious overtones and if you played them backwards you didn't hear the Sudweeks telling you to abandon your family and join their "cult". They are harmless. I didn't like hearing some old lady telling me I was happy in the morning so I put my pillow over my head. Problem solved.
And I wasn't aware the churches of this world condemn those who listen to motivational tapes and tell themselves to be positve.
And to that skeptic who thinks Cheryl is the one behind all the former students posting you are MISTAKEN. When I walk out my front door and look at the liscene plate on my car I don't see Utah plates. I haven't been in Nephi for almost a year.
I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm trying to set this shit straight.
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Thank you. Now we know what to buy and listen to for ourselves, IF this was exactly what you students were required to listen to upon awakening each moring at Whitmore. Wonder why parents couldn't simply be told what you just relayed to us? It's the element of "secrecy" that causes parents to worry, you know.
I surely was impressed with your answer, right up until the "dick" and "shit" ending. Guess I'm just old-fashioned that way, and expect more out of today's young people.
Don't think anyone said you were not posting for YOURSELF....just that most of us do not believe the posting "from students at the Whitmore..and a couple of the other postings are anyone other than Cheryl Sudweeks." Your postings always seem sincere and gunine.
Could you explain "scripting?"
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I don't mean to come off as edgy or harsh, I apologize if I have.
Maybe I replied in the wrong thread but someone is going around claiming Cheryl is posting under various names and whatnot.
Scripting is kind of hard to explain. It wasn't a part of the "curriculum", if you wanted to try it one of the former students was all about it. It's basically a paragraph with a blank where you fill in with a negative emotion you are feeling and what to get rid of.
Ex.
"I want to know the source of my depression. I want my depression to go away." etc. etc.
It's basically a non religious prayer to get rid of bad feelings. You can do it yourself, you just read the thing out loud.
When first heard about it I thought..."Wow, that is insanely stupid." I wasn't down with it from day one and I have never been scripted.
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On 2005-03-21 18:02:00, HOWBIZARRE wrote:
I don't think you need to get "certified" in order to hand cassettes out to kids so they can play them in the morning.
No, but I think you might be certifiable if you force kids to listen to them every morning in the wee hours for months and years at a stretch and never let them catch up on their sleep the whole time.
Seriously, though. Glad you're still around, glad you're still posting. Now that the hostility and bullshit has died down to a dull roar, please let me take this oportunity to say my peace.
I don't hate you just because you support the Whitmore. I'm interested in just what the Whitmore is and how it works because I'm interested in the troubled parent industry and Whitmore is a part of it. I apreciate your input here, even when we disagree. But please don't paint us all w/ a broad brush. Some ppl on the other side of the issue from you behave badly sometimes (some of them do most of the time) It's not your imagination. But it's also not all of us.
Thanks for coming back.
With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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Woops! I was responding to your previous post, howbizarre. Sorry for any confusion. I'll shut up and read now.
The college idealists who fill the ranks of the environmental movement seem willing to do absolutely anything to save the biosphere, except take science courses and learn something about it.
--P.J. O'Rourke
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I can respect that.
I'm trying not to generalize too much, but with the unbelievable amount of anonymous postings, it's a bit hard. Please don't take anything I say too serious or persoanlly.
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Yeah, I don't think scripting is particularly dangerous. I'm creeping up on the conclusion that a lot of what Whitmore has to offer is just snake oil. It's only dangerous if you 1) actually need some kind of psyche help and take that instead or 2) if you put so much stock in it that you let it take over your life.
Most of you guys coming out seem a good deal less scrambled and traumatized that from some other places. That's a good thing. I'm relieved to hear it. There are some aspects of the whole story that are rather troubling, and I'm glad those are coming out too.
Here's a question. W/o going into detail, is it fair to say that you did come out early on really hostile toward some of the kids who were complainging about the Whitmore or about specific incidents that happen there? If not, my apologies. I really haven't checked and there's just SO much of that.
If so, why? Is it mainly fidelity to the Suds and the "family" or was it personal stuff to do w/ those individuals? (I don't want to know the details if it was personal)
Our Bible reveals to us the character of our god with minute and remorseless exactness... It is perhaps the most damnatory biography that exists in print anywhere. It makes Nero an angel of light and leading by contrast.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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Nah, I didn't harbor any grudges against anyone when I left. If some of the other kids want to make statements against the Whitmore, that's fine with me. I didn't like some of the kids, but that was just personality conflicts.
Walking away from the program and getting on the plane I definately was a lot more motivated and optimistic about the future. I did, and to a certain degree still feel like I'm playing catch up with my peers. I basically bombed my first semester of college. It's been up and down since I got home but that's life. Being there, defiantely helped me see the brighter side of things in life.
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Wow, you're drawing quite a crowd! Since you've been posting tonight, there have been 6 - 10 ppl looking at this forum every time I look.
There's no biochemical test to distinguish the so-called manic-depressive person from the elated or despondent football fan. Nor is there any resan to assume the manic-depressive's inner experience is driven by twisted molecules while the football fan's is driven, at worst, by twisted values
Dr. Peter Breggin, Toxic Psychiatry
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Howbizarre,
Why do you think you "bombed your first semester of college?"
Did it have anything to do with the structure of classes at Whitmore? being more or less self-taught...lack of formal classrooms/teachers.
Whitmore is presented as a PRIVATE SCHOOL--most kids with this type education usually do extremely well upon entering college--have an "edge" over public school kids.
What do you mean by "playing catch up with your peers?"--emotionally, socially and WHY?
We parents see this with our kids at home now, and they won't talk to us about it...and we don't understand WHY. Maybe you have been home long enough, and seem more "together" and can help us.
Thanks.
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On 2005-03-21 19:33:00, HOWBIZARRE wrote:
Being there, defiantely helped me see the brighter side of things in life."
How did it do this? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I just really would like to know...from your perspective, exactly HOW this was accomplished.The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this.
--Albert Einstein, My First Impression of the U.S.A., 1921
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When I went to the Whitmore it was more behavior modification than private school or so it seemed...I dunno what was presented to my parents but behavior modification seems likely because, honestly, my parents didn't seem too concerned with my schooling while I was there. The whole private school thing started after I left so I don't know too much about that.
When I think about why I bombed my first semester I think it was a combination of not being in a formal classroom for so long and a lack of motivation on my part. Getting back on the grind in the classroom was tough. I managed to pick my grades up this semester though, I just look at my first semester as my trasitional period. :lol:
When I said I felt like I was playing catch up...
I feel senior year is a very important time, you're supposed to have your driver's liscene, a job, some money in the bank, and kind of start learning to get things done on your own. When I got home I didn't have any of those things and it was frustrating. I felt like I was 16 years old again, depending on my parents for everything. When I got home I had to move again so I basically had to start from stratch and it sucked.
As for Cayo, just being there, away from everything I was used to was definately an eye opener. I just realized all the things I had back home and whatnot. I realized how fast time flies and if you don't make an attempt to enjoy life it'll be gone before you know it. I didn't really get a lot out of group, I always thought it was kind of redundant and I just zoned out a lot during it. As cheesy as it sounds I guess reading some of the self help books they had helped me a lot. I guess the whole experience kind of shaped me.
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Did you "graduate" from Whitmore and go straight into college? If you really weren't doing school there...how did you complete your senior year of academic work to get into college? How did you earn the required "credits" for your senior year?
If you more-or-less "zoned out in group" and didn't get much from that---did you have individual therapy with a therapist?
Who led you group therapy?
Seems like you could have told your parents, you could just come home and learn from self-help books and have saved them a lot of money.
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My parents wouldn't have gone that route. Infact, when I turned 18 I stayed two weeks so I would finish the entire year. My parents and I were on very bad terms for a long time. I didn't get om agreeable terms until my 11th month basicaly. Me coming home early was simply not an option. They actually offered my a check for 500 dollars and a ticket to my sisters apartment if things with them didn't get better. You have to realize that I was sent there for being a domestice menace. If I called them and said everything's all good I can come home now, I'd probably hear a click and a dial tone. I kind of take offense to that comment. I feel bad about pretty much draining my parent's retirement fund. If things were that simple I wouldn't have done to Utah in the first place.
When I got to Utah, I was basicaly a halfway through my senior year according to Utah's credit system. I only needed a couple of credits to graduate. I had all my math, science and history from my junior, sophmore and freshmens years in regualr school.
CHeryl led group.
Yeah I had individual therapy.
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How are things with your parents now?
What happened in that last month at Whitmore to turn things around between you and your parents, that is, if things got better.
Did Cheryl Sudweeks try to talk you into staying at Whitmore as a "counselor" or employee?
How did you "cover the fact" that you weren't really into Cheryl's group therapy sessions? From what kids post here, she seems to take those sessions really really seriously.
If you are doing well in college, and are happy, and have your life straight--your parents probably would not want you feeling guilty about any money they spent to help you. Parents are like that, you know?
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Do you have any on-going relationships with former students from Whitmore?
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Just want to say Thank You! to How Bizarre for providing a needed perspective to this discussion.
If you ask the Government for the right to assemble you deserve to be told no .
--Jim Lesczynski, Manhattan LP chair, on "unorganized" gathering @ Central Park
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Yeah, me too. And I'd invite you to weigh in on the topic TO ALL PARENTS
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... orum=35&23 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8804&forum=35&23) if you're so inclined.
Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!
--Albert Einstein
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All the parents who didn't get called, was it 80% according to Tori? Maybe they can contact the ELITE group who are on the Parent chat forum and ASK THEM how their kids are doing down in Mexico with the Suds.
OR surely, the Suds provide all the parents with their cell phone numbers....start calling parents.