Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 15, 2005, 02:42:00 PM
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Some of these questions go back to December 2004.
NONE of them ever get answered! The Sudweeks supporters avoid these questions by attacking others, or EACH OTHER. How about some answers?
What is scripting? Who does it? Seems Cheryl can do it herself, or kids can do it to themselves.
What are subliminals. Why is it so important to Cheryl.
What is this imposed sense of FAMILY at Whitmore?
Why doesn't any AUTHORITY at Whitmore post the names and creditials of the "certified teachers" at Whitmore Academy. Most schools post names of staff.
Why doesn't any AUTHORITY explain Cheryl's Group Sessions....explaining what "HAVING A GROUP ON SOMEONE IS...."
*** Please add any questions you may have.
HOW ABOUT SOME ANSWERS?
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On 2005-03-15 11:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
HOW ABOUT SOME ANSWERS?"
All very good questions. Good luck with getting any concrete answers. We haven't had any so far.The last struggles of a great superstition are very frequently the worst.
--Andrew Dickson White (1832-1918)
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Actually, one kid did explain the subliminals in some detail. That was early on, though, before this turned from a slighly tense discussion into an all out brawl. The kids who were posting then, for the most part, are sitting this part out.
I would be iterested to know a little more about those though. But the kids probably don't have the info I'm looking for. For example, where do the sub tapes come from? Are they commercially available? Who produces them. What's the basis for believing they're therapeutic in any way?
Another question that I asked early on was whether or not the kids were put in authority over one another. That one was answered as well; yes they are. They're tasked w/ monitoring each other and reporting compliance (or not) to Cheryl.
One kid also described having group on her at Lake Powel. Not a whole lot of detail there, but then again I don't know how anyone could describe something like that in full detail w/o violating their own or others' privacy. But I think we got enough info from that description to understand what that's about.
Still don't know exactly what "scripting" is, though. Anybody? What does that mean in the context of Whitmore? Is it something exclusive to Whitmore or part of some line of therapy or religion? How does it work?
We've also gotten an answer to whether or not PURE refers to Whitmore. I know, I know, it's been said many times, but mostly by one person. I don't trust any stranger that much, no matter how sympathetic I may be to them. But now several different people have confirmed it.
So, putting all this together, we now have a partial, sketchy sort of answer to a question that I've been hammering and yammering on for years now. Exactly what kinds of programs does Sue refer people to, promising that they're better than WWASPS programs?
I would still like to know the answers to some of these other questions. But for anyone who's interested in the substance here, I'd suggest you go back to the earlier conversations. I think you'll find that there's some very good content there and that the kids who are under attack for all sorts of different seedy allegations are really quite credible and compassionate kids.
Deflection only works if you bite. So don't bite, k?
It is the old practice of despots to use a part of the people to keep
the rest in order; and those who have once got an ascendency and possessed themselves of all the resources of the nation, their revenues and offices, have immense means for retaining their advantages.
--Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1798
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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This is what Sue Scheff told ME: she said Whitmore was better than WWASP because:
Whitmore did NOT do ANY OF these things that WWASP ALWAYS DID....
No locking kids up in isolation.
No keeping kids from contacting their parents when even they want to.
No phyical abuse whatsoever.
No dirty or unhealthy facility
No mean, hateful employees
No just being stuck in one place since Sudweeks take kids to Canada and Mexico, EVEN on cruises.
No kids with drug problems since the "druggies" go to the school up in Canada.
No worrying about your kids since they are in the hands of loving, Christian people with 20+ years experience in the teen help industry.
No worry about education since school is fully accredited and all teachers are certified.
No worry about a lack of love since the Sudweeks love all children.
We knew nothing about WWASP. But Sue Scheff gave us the impression that Whitmore was the opposite of WWASP. She told us a WWASP Program would be an abusive, lock down, unsanitary facility where our child would receive an inadequate education by harsh, mean people people and that our child would surely come out damaged severely.
It turned out that this is the exact treatment our child received at Whitmore Academy.
So--there does not seem to be a lot of difference between WWASP and Whitmore, IF Sue Scheff's representation of WWASP is, in fact, true
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One more thing. Please go back and look how this all started. Here's the thread that started in the main forum and that I moved over here initially:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 35&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&mode=viewtopic&topic=4457&forum=35&start=0)
Obviously, whoever posted about OP was full of it. Not one single kid has confirmed that, even the ones who are currently on the Whitmore shit list say that's bunk. But there are some other, more level and reasoned posts there.
Look at some of the posts from the parents and students in support of the program. I believe what they're saying. But I wonder if they would have been so supportive if they had made the shit list and gotten a dose of that kind of treatment? I wonder if they understand that whatever confidential info the Suds have about their family (again, real or imagined, seems a lot of it is imagined) might be used as blackmail should they ever voice even mild criticizm? I wonder where they are now and if they still feel the same way?
The fatal pedagogical error is to throw answers, like stones, at the heads of those who have not yet asked the questions.
Paul Tillich
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On 2005-03-15 11:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
What is scripting? Who does it? Seems Cheryl can do it herself, or kids can do it to themselves.
Could this be what they mean by "Scripting"?
--Accordingly scripts are similarly recurring personality patterns. They can be envisioned as persistent sequences of reactions begun by a triggering event that activates a specific innate and neurophysiological affect, which then activates a specific cognition, a given emotion, thus elicits a particular behavior. --
http://www.wspdc.org/kaytonworkshop.htm (http://www.wspdc.org/kaytonworkshop.htm)
And a book:
--1995 Affect, Script, and Psychotherapy
Psychotherapy patients fall into two groups - those with otherwise adequate life scripts but who have been dazed by affect; and those whose core scripts leave them able to handle only a limited range of situations. Approaches to "borderline" illness based on affect and script as seen in the Affect Pattern Chart, problems of intimacy, substance abuse, integration of psychotherapy and religion, introduction of image-oriented therapy and the use of the drawn image. --
http://www.tomkins.org/store/item.aspx?id=3 (http://www.tomkins.org/store/item.aspx?id=3)
To err is human; to forgive is simply not our policy.
-- MIT Assasination Club slogan
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Well-if it is, then it appears to be a rather complicated psychological concept.
And these Whitmore kids seem to be able to "script themselves," and the holy Cheryl can "script" just about anyone...and here she only has a high school education.
Absolutely amazing, isn't it? And these psychologist writing these $100+ books trying to explain this---probably just need to have Cheryl Sudweeks do a little seminar for them --- it just can't be all that complicated, if she can teach it to a bunch of teenager.
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what about all the numerology stuff too? That is BEYOND IMPORTANT TO CHERYL SUDWEEKS.
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I'm going to end this right now.
What is scripting? Who does it? Seems Cheryl can do it herself, or kids can do it to themselves
Scripting comes from a book written by KAROL TRUMAN, I forget the title, it's either HEALING FEELINGS or something along those lines. It's a paragraph to "help" you thwart off your negative emotions. It's basically like this:
I want these feelings of ______ to go away and blah blah blah blah. If this sounds bizarre, blame my explanation.
"""What are subliminals. Why is it so important to Cheryl.?"""
Sublimnals are basically motivational tapes...."I FEEL HAPPY, I AM HAPPY" blah blah blah. The sublimnals we listened to came from Karol Truman. She's an author from Salt Lake. Cheryl wants the kids to listen to them to get positive ideas flowing in their minds in the morning. The tapes didn't have any religious overtones to them, I'm pretty sure karol truman was LDS but that wasn't pushed on the types, which would have obviously limited their appeal.
"""What is this imposed sense of FAMILY at Whitmore?"""
I am soooooo sick of hearing about this. I guess the place was supposed to be a family enviroment and was a major selling point for a lot of families. But a lot of the kids looked way too hard into this. I had a family back home that I missed and I wasn't looking for a replacement. I couldn't stand more than half of the kids I lived with and wasn't punished for it. As far as i'm concerned there was no secret society where kids were beat for betraying their family. please believe if someone tried to hit me for something like that I'd be cracking jaws left and right.
I'm not going to answer the last two questions because you're looking for a staff's response and I'm just some dumb kid.
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On 2005-03-15 14:11:00, HOWBIZARRE wrote:
I'm not going to answer the last two questions because you're looking for a staff's response and I'm just some dumb kid.
Dumb kid? Not hardly!
I have to say this about the family thing. Your take on it is pretty much the same as some other ppl who I find credible. But there's another side to it. I don't think it's just some of the kids who take this aspect a bit too far. Black markets will always be with us. But they will recede in importance when our public morality is consistent with our private one.
Eric Schlosser, Reefer Madness
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From Karol Trumans website. http://www.healingfeelings.com/ (http://www.healingfeelings.com/):
Script Card
Processing with the Script
Spirit/Super-Conscious, please locate the origin of my
feeling(s)/thought(s) of _____________________.
Take each and every level, layer, area and aspect of my Being to
this origin. Analyze and resolve it perfectly with God's truth.
Come through all generations of time and eternity, healing
every incident and its appedages based on the origin.
Do it according to God's will until I am at the present -
filled with light and truth, God's peace and love, forgiveness
of myself for my incorrect perceptions, fogiveness of every
person, place, circumstance, and event which contributed
to this feeling(s)/thought(s).
With total forgiveness and unconditional love I allow every
physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual problem,
and inappropriate behavior based on the negative
origin recorded in my DNA, to transform
*I choose Being ___________________.
I feel _________________. I AM _________________.
It is done. It is healed. It is accomplished now!
Thank you Spirit, for coming to my aid and helping me attain the
full measure of my creation. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I love you and praise God from whom all blessings flow.
It's our goddamn duty to get these people back on drugs so they can think for themselves again!!!
RTP2003
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On 2005-03-15 14:48:00, Erinys wrote:
"From Karol Trumans website. http://www.healingfeelings.com/ (http://www.healingfeelings.com/):
Script Card
Processing with the Script
Spirit/Super-Conscious, please locate the origin of my
feeling(s)/thought(s) of _____________________.
Take each and every level, layer, area and aspect of my Being to
this origin. Analyze and resolve it perfectly with God's truth.
Come through all generations of time and eternity, healing
every incident and its appedages based on the origin.
Do it according to God's will until I am at the present -
filled with light and truth, God's peace and love, forgiveness
of myself for my incorrect perceptions, fogiveness of every
person, place, circumstance, and event which contributed
to this feeling(s)/thought(s).
With total forgiveness and unconditional love I allow every
physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual problem,
and inappropriate behavior based on the negative
origin recorded in my DNA, to transform
*I choose Being ___________________.
I feel _________________. I AM _________________.
It is done. It is healed. It is accomplished now!
Thank you Spirit, for coming to my aid and helping me attain the
full measure of my creation. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I love you and praise God from whom all blessings flow.
It's our goddamn duty to get these people back on drugs so they can think for themselves again!!!
RTP2003
"
There go those !@#$ random quotes again!We can easily forgive a child who is afraid
of the dark. The real tragedy of life is
when men are afraid of the light.
--Plato
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On 2005-03-15 14:50:00, Erinys wrote:
There go those !@#$ random quotes again!We can easily forgive a child who is afraid
of the dark. The real tragedy of life is
when men are afraid of the light.
--Plato
"
yeah, but look at the one that popped up in your next post!!! :nworthy:
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Hi Everyone,
Chris here. I'd love to answer your questions.
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What is scripting? Who does it? Seems Cheryl can do it herself, or kids can do it to themselves.
Scripting is a feelings process created by Karol K Truman. I've never scripted before, so I honestly can't tell you much about the process. I suggest checking out http://www.healingfeelings.com (http://www.healingfeelings.com) for more information.
What are subliminals. Why is it so important to Cheryl.
Subliminals are taped messages by Karol K Truman. As you can tell Cheryl is a big fan. The tape basically depicts a person telling themselves how great they are. I feel loved by others, I feel I can do anything, etc, etc..
What is this imposed sense of FAMILY at Whitmore?
I feel that there is imposed sense. I think its more of a natural sense. Whitmore is much more personal then any other program I've ever seen. It should come to you as no surprise that everyone becomes equally close as an actual family would. It came off strange to me at first, but then I realized that Cheryl and Mark do virtually become the parent figures. Many of the kids at Whitmore had very low self esteem. At Whitmore theres a sense of belonging. Most kids tend to naturally feel like they belong there. I hope this provides you with a better understanding from my point of view.
Why doesn't any AUTHORITY at Whitmore post the names and creditials of the "certified teachers" at Whitmore Academy. Most schools post names of staff.
There is a newly posted list on whitmoreacademy.com. For parents to see. As far as I know there are 3 certified teachers now. When I atttended there was two. Callie teaches English / History, Mr. Beissinger teaches Science, and there is a new math teachers whose name I can not recall.
Why doesn't any AUTHORITY explain Cheryl's Group Sessions....explaining what "HAVING A GROUP ON SOMEONE IS...."
I'm honestly not sure why Mark and Cheryl don't post here. However, I highly doubt I would either if there was a forum where I was being called an animal and child abuser. Having "group on someone" basically just means having a discussion about someone's behaviors, feelings, actions, etc.. It typically goes on until the problem at hand is solved.
If you want me to ellaborate further let me know!
Chris
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On 2005-03-15 12:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
It turned out that this is the exact treatment our child received at Whitmore Academy.
So--there does not seem to be a lot of difference between WWASP and Whitmore, IF Sue Scheff's representation of WWASP is, in fact, true
As far as I and even the Utah courts can tell, it is true. And I believe there are important differences between WWASPS and Whitmore. That's not a lie either. Further, I'm pretty sure Sue honestly believes that those differences are all that's important. She believes that she's saving families from abusive, harmful programs and placing them in safe, effective programs. I'm just not all that confident in Sue's assesment of the situation.
My belief is that there isn't any magic bullet. Life's messy. Kids are needy. If you take a kid who's already got problems and you ship them off to strangers, you're likely to cause more problems. At the very best, you're just buying your way out of a rough spot on the road while the kid matures enough to get past some of their issues. But you never get that time back and you can never undo what's done.
When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans ...... And so a lot of people say there's too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it. That's what we did in the announcement I made last weekend on the public housing projects, about how we're going to have weapon sweeps and more things like that to try to make people safer in their communities.
-- Bill Clinton, 3-22-94
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Thanks, Chris.
On 2005-03-15 14:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
I'm honestly not sure why Mark and Cheryl don't post here. However, I highly doubt I would either if there was a forum where I was being called an animal and child abuser. Having "group on someone" basically just means having a discussion about someone's behaviors, feelings, actions, etc.. It typically goes on until the problem at hand is solved.
If you want me to ellaborate further let me know!
Chris
That and what others have said sounds a whole lot like a come down rap at The Seed or Straight. That's my firsthand experience. It's also about the same as what people describe at some other programs. Or, for the general public, imagine an episode of Maurey where you get to be the little girl accused of sucking some grown man's dick, only it goes on and on and on w/o a commercial break or any end in sight. AND the people involved are the only people you're permitted to associate w/ for an indeterminate period, contingent on meeting an unpredictable set of standards and requirements. (long enough sentence for ya? sorry, this is complicated stuff well outside of most people's experience)
Basically, what I'm trying to get across here is that the concept of group therapy sounds like a good idea. But if you've ever been forced to endure it against your will, you might think otherwise.
The problem I have with it is that there is no trained professional in the house to keep this kind of group discussion restricted to issues apropriate to the group. Now, that doesn't mean that a piece of paper is going to guarantee sensible, beneficial group therapy. There are plenty of Phoenix House and other Synanon or CEDU trained "therapists" with lovely bits of paper who will cheerfully go about demoralizing a kid in Group, fully believing that suffering is healthy and that what they're doing is therapeutic. But there's not even the pretense of any kind of psyche professional to take charge and keep Group from turning decidedly untherapeutic.
At the time, as a kid, I just knew it was making me crazy and that I needed desperately to get away and sort myself out. Since then, I've read up on the topic and found that real psyche doctors and researchers have studied exactly what happens under those circumstances. And that explained a LOT!
Again, not saying that Whitmore is just like Straight. Now that I've learned a little bit about it, though, it does seem to be a whole lot like The Seed after they quit locking kids into bedrooms and started acting more like a 'normal' cult. I don't think Seedlings were ever quite as threatening as I've seen Whitmore kids, though. In that regard, it seems a little more like Synanon.
Forgive, O Lord, my little joke on Thee and I'll forgive Thy great big one on me.
--Robert Frost, American poet
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Oh, btw, I'm really not at all sure that Mark and Cheryl don't post here.
Excepting drug activity for personal use or free
distribution from the sweep of the CSA would discourage the consumption of
lawful controlled substances.
acting US Solicitor General, Paul Clement; Ashcroft v. Raich
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Antigen thats basically what group is :smile:
I agree that it sounds like a good idea, however, I feel its not very effective.
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"My belief is that there isn't any magic bullet. Life's messy. Kids are needy. If you take a kid who's already got problems and you ship them off to strangers, you're likely to cause more problems. At the very best, you're just buying your way out of a rough spot on the road while the kid matures enough to get past some of their issues. But you never get that time back and you can never undo what's done."
How painfully true this is. OH how painfully true!! The time issue and not being able to undo is what haunts me every single day.
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Do you think they could sometimes be harmful?
I tried not to work for, you know, anyone who ate children with their bare hands. I won't pretend that I was ideologically consistent.
--Dick Morris; Political consultant for Bill Clinton, Trent Lott and Tom Ridge
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On 2005-03-15 14:50:00, Erinys wrote:
There go those !@#$ random quotes again!
I don't think you could have picked a more apropos quote if you had picked it! (you have to click on the attribution and take it in context.)
The weavers of linen and hempen cloth, ... may exercise their trades without paying any fine.
-- Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations (chapter X, part II) notes:
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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And the quote on your comment to me is weirdly resonant to my present employment!
~Does this cat have a grin or what!
- A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
- A republic is where the sheep get to pick which wolves vote on what to have for dinner.
- But in a constitutional republic, voting on dinner is strictly
forbidden.
--A Patriot
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You're a tax collector?
The more BORING a child is, the more the parents,
when showing off the child, receive adulation for
being GOOD PARENTS -- because they have a TAME
CHILD-CREATURE in their house.
--Frank Zappa
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No - but my employer is tax exempt in many circumstances. The second word holds a clue.
Cuttin' the IRL info a little close,
Erinys, BFA
To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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On 2005-03-16 19:03:00, Erinys wrote:
"No - but my employer is tax exempt in many circumstances. The second word holds a clue.
Cuttin' the IRL info a little close,
Erinys, BFA
You work for a non-profit organization teaching basket weaving to mental patients?
JK, no need to answer.
Preacher man don't tell me heaven is under the earth; you don't know what life is worth;.......If you know what life is worth, you will look for your's on earth.
--Bob Marley
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Guess what I Googled up! Here's some answers about scripting, subliminals and life at the Whitmore direct from those who know and love 'em.
http://homepage.mac.com/whoamidiscovery ... 381614193/ (http://homepage.mac.com/whoamidiscovery/weblog/iblog/B1919985813/C381614193/)
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Because trying to help somebody like you understand is just an exercise in futility.
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Puzzled over who that last post was meant for. :question:
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins; all of them imaginary.
H.L. Mencken, 1923
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Who knows? She is an avid Sudweeks supporter who just has to post SOMETHING I suppose.