Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 12, 2005, 10:14:00 PM
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i heard this was a very expensive boarding school for kids with add/adhd. but i have seen some negatives here. i always wished we had chosen this one, but it was very expenisve. are there any graduates out there with how it was?
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if you knew everything about the hla program, you'd be glad you never sent your kid there. if you desire a subpar (nearly nonexistant) education, isolation and emotional withdrawal for your kid, then you should be sure to place him/her at hla.
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http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... orum=9&101 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5722&forum=9&101)
Greater expense does not insure greater quality.
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wow, i had no idea. i hope more pple see this.
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Consider yourself lucky you didnt choose this program.
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what is funny robertbruce is that i really was disappointed that we didnt go there, now i see almost all of the programs have a not good side.
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Isn't that fairly obvious, though? I mean, what do you expect? How gullible do you have to be to believe that someone's going to take your kid, radically change their behavior and beliefs in only a positive way (by what definition, positive?) and have absolutely no other effect on them?
A lot of people believe firmly that old saw that you can't change someone against their will. That's just not true. It's really easy, in fact. Especially when you're talking about immature kids. You just have to break their will first. That's all.
- A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
- A republic is where the sheep get to pick which wolves vote on what to have for dinner.
- But in a constitutional republic, voting on dinner is strictly
forbidden.
--A Patriot
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HLA is bureaucracy at its worst. Due to my family situation i only left once in the two years that i was there. I had plenty of places that i could go but since non were blood relatives i wasn't able to leave. When i attended the school was horrific in academics, i actually helped teach a chemistry and physics class. The methods they use for therapy are a combination of military, prison, and some pre-freudian psych. I can go into great detail about it, but never the less i would recommend looking for alternatives.
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On 2005-04-06 12:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"HLA is bureaucracy at its worst. Due to my family situation i only left once in the two years that i was there. I had plenty of places that i could go but since non were blood relatives i wasn't able to leave. When i attended the school was horrific in academics, i actually helped teach a chemistry and physics class. The methods they use for therapy are a combination of military, prison, and some pre-freudian psych. I can go into great detail about it, but never the less i would recommend looking for alternatives."
This is typical of these type of places.
The fewer kids that leave the facility and the fewer hours spent out of the facility means a lower risk of contact with the public and less public understanding of what transpires on the grounds...And that's EXACTLY how they like it.
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According to their newsletter, the students do community service work with the elderly and children in the county where the school is located. It also says on their website that they go to baseball games and other functions in Atlanta. Is this not true? They show photos of these events on their website. Wouldnt that put the kids in outside environments? Or are you saying they are just prevented from outside contact just with their parents. They are supposed to see their parents every 4 months from what it says on their website. Are you saying the info on the website is false?
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Based on my experience:
They not only have little to no contact with parents, but also siblings, grandparents and other extended family. My mother didn't have contact with my son for two years, except for two very brief visits- one a funeral, which took an act of congress to get him home for. Nor did my daughter, an excellent young adult role model.
You are viewing promotional material. It appears reasonable, doesn't it? Parents go into this beieving they will see their children every four months- not bad huh? Why else would they abdicate contact/ control for two years?? These programs play desperate parents like a fiddle.
Can't quote the stats, but I would bet money that the majority don't get their 8 month home visit.
While 'seasonal breaks' are listed, the teen can loose visits home due to behavioral issues OR for having academic incompletes. If the kid is not 'with the program' come 7-7.5 months, you can be assured that they will be put on restriciton and held during the break.
"Due to the eligibility requirements for seasonal breaks, we normally have a substantial percentage of our students remaining on campus during these breaks."
"To be eligible for seasonal breaks, students must meet the following criteria: *Students must have completed Earth Element to be eligible for Winter Break. * Students must have completed Water Element to be eligilble for all other seasonal breaks, including Thanksgiving Break."
In other words... depends on when their peer group forms as to whether or not they will get the upcoming seasonal break. To really get a sense of when one would be eligible, you really need to know about those 'Elements'.
Depending on how long it take for the PG to form (18 kids- 3,4 months) the end of Earth would occur between 4-8 months. The end of Water could be 8 to 12 months. Get the picture?
You can fairly reasonably assume that your kid is going to be presented by the facility to be far more 'troubled' than you had imagined, once they are enrolled. If they have tried pot, they will be harrassed until they admit they are an addict. If they have had sex, they are promicuous. You will be informed of all the 'deep, dark, secrets' they have gotten your kid to 'divulge'. And I think it's safe to say, that the majority will be presented to parents as defiant, in denial, and not working their program- hence the need to stay on campus and focus on their 'personal growth'.
I would also like to see an honest survey of how many kids actually leave campus for those fun events in Atlanta, or Dahlonega for that matter. And how many are 'fun' and how many are actually 'community service'- uh, that's 'punishment'. If those pro games and other events actually do happen, only the kids who are performing 'perfectly' will be attending. My guess, that's a very small percentage- if any at all. You can put any event you want on the calendar. How many actually happen? No 'problem' kid is going to get off the premises. Period.
If you're considering any program, you should request a copy of the Parent Manual and diligently study the fine print. Might even have an attorney or advocate review it.
Every business in the world is going to embellish their promotional materials and slant the information to their audience. Surely you know this. Just as when buying a car or home, you're a fool if you don't analyze the fine print, and ask questions if you don't understand.
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Deborah the community service was taking christmas meals to the elderly, chopping wood for the elderly and ill, and doing things with the children in the pre k programs in town. NOT punishment. The school also owns 4 buses that they take kids to events in. THey are green and seat about 30 kids each and say HLA on the side and each one has an A,B,C, or D letter. Why do I know about the buses? Because I went with my husband to Jacksonville, FL to look at the facility where they are made and where my husband purchased them. They were purchased I believe in 1998. they wanted to check out the size and cost and safety of them. Why spend money on buses if they dont want the kids off campus? Why dont you tell the truth to that person who asked? dont make it sound as if NO kids go anywhere. Dont make it sound as if parents dont see their kids for months. I saw hundreds of parents come to seminars and to pick their kids up for visits. I personally babysat 2 children who came with their parents to see their sibling. Maybe it is the kids own fault they missed the visit. Maybe the kids should be held accountable sometimes. NOt all these kids are innocent abused children. Some are manipulative and dont want to do what they are told. NOt all I know..but some are. Maybe your kid had a bad experience..I cant speak for that because I dont think I lived there when he was there. But I do KNOW what the kids did for community service and it was NOT punishment. Helping others is not punishment..unless youre a spoiled brat and think that way. I said I wasnt going to post anymore on this crap...but sometimes the truth just needs to be sorted out from the bullshit and over exxagerations.
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Still trolling around this board, Mrs. Gray?
I just don't understand how a "cafeteria lady" could possibly know the ins-and-outs of a BM School.
Either you actually don't know and are speculating (this is what I believe) or some people with therapeutic responsibilities have broken their code of ethics to fill you in on the details (there was a lot of that going on there, too).
So, please, Mrs. Gray, don't encourage people to send their kids to places like HLA. You simply lack the understanding to provide advice to anyone about these programs.
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I never worked in the cafeteria, Dysfunction Junction...I worked as a teacher's clerical assistant. My ex has been employed there since 4 months before it opened. And I saw the parents drive up the road by my house for the workshops so I know how many parents came to pick up their children for visits and for workshops. And I also personally saw the community service work being done in town and knew who they helped because I had friends with the Rainbow home and the NOAA organization and with the Pre-K program. They also took kids into town for church services too with those buses. I was speaking about the kids going off campus for visits and for outings, so I dont need a psychology degree to tell people about what I actually physically saw with my own eyes, I am speaking from my OWN experience. And I have referred friends to the school for possible placement of their children, if I thought it was such an awful place I wouldnt have done that now would I. Oh and by the way, I am NO troll...I am voicing my opinion JUST LIKE YOU.
OH, and I am NOT Mrs. Gray. So quit calling me that. That is not my name. [ This Message was edited by: SHH on 2005-04-07 09:12 ]
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So now you're making referrals? Isn't that wonderful?
Someone who admittedly has no knowledge of child psychology and has never been involved in treatment in any appreciable way now contends that she has the cognitive horsepower to advise on children's education and mental health.
For that, my dear, you DO need a degree.
However, at HLA, having no degree and no experience may, in actuality, qualify you to be the clinical treatment director. Well, maybe you need a PHONY degree, but you can get that by mailorder for a couple of hundred bucks.
So when are you moving back on campus to assume your new duties, Mrs. Gray?
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Well if I was a educational consultant I would need some experience referring but thats not what I meant and in typical political fashion on this board you twisted my meaning. By referring I meant that I told my friends who had children they needed counseling/help for, about the school, gave them phone numbers, website addresses, and peoples names to contact. I also provided them with photos of the school. I dont need a psychology degree to give out phone numbers do I...no I didnt think so. As far as what kind of college degrees employees posess now, I dont know, other than the head counselors and department heads...but when I was there, all the positions that required at least a bachelors..had a bachelors or higher..and not from a mail away school either. Go ahead and continue to pick apart and twist my statements..because you cant possibly conceive another viewpoint other than your own and quite frankly..I dont care what you think of my statements LOL but I know what I know from experience and what I saw with my own eyes. And I dont need a psychology degree to tell a friend about a school or witness kids delivering meals.
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Just to clarify....and by the way, once again..my name is NOT Mrs. Gray..so quit calling me that...not only do I not refer to you here by your real name(which I know), you arent even using my real one LOL so just refer to me as SHH or bitch or whatever you want but NOT Mrs. Gray. That is someone else.
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Mrs. Gray,
You were there when Tom Sisk was there, no?
"Dr." Tom Sisk, the "Clinical Director," at HLA's inception was not really a "doctor" of anything at all. HE HAD A FAKE DEGREE.
His degree was "conferred" upon him by "LaSalle University" in Mandeville, LA, a KNOWN DIPLOMA MILL. For $5500.00 he became a "doctor of philosophy" (PhD) without EVER ATTENDING A CLASS OR WRITING A THESIS.
He was THE head man in charge of THERAPY and had a FAKE DEGREE. I spoke with Dr. B. about this and he confirmed that he was aware of LaSalle's UNACCREDITED STATUS.
Now, what we have here is a HUGE FRAUD with complicity to the top of HLA's management structure.
Did you know about this? I would wager that you didn't, as you truly HAVE NO IDEA what went on there, as you did not have access, period.
So, climb down off of your soapbox and shut your foaming trap about matters you do not comprehend. You deign to lecture me, Mrs. Gray, when you have NO FACTS to support what you spout?
So, let's get the record straight here and now: You have reccommended that your friends' children attend a school that openly employs staff with BOGUS CREDENTIALS. That is a fact. How dare you open that door for those poor kids? What is WRONG with you (besides your omnipresent ignorance)?
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Mrs. Gray,
You were there when Tom Sisk was there, no?
"Dr." Tom Sisk, the "Clinical Director," at HLA's inception was not really a "doctor" of anything at all. HE HAD A FAKE DEGREE.
His degree was "conferred" upon him by "LaSalle University" in Mandeville, LA, a KNOWN DIPLOMA MILL. For $5500.00 he became a "doctor of philosophy" (PhD) without EVER ATTENDING A CLASS OR WRITING A THESIS.
He was THE head man in charge of THERAPY and had a FAKE DEGREE. I spoke with Dr. B. about this and he confirmed that he was aware of LaSalle's UNACCREDITED STATUS.
Now, what we have here is a HUGE FRAUD with complicity to the top of HLA's management structure.
Did you know about this? I would wager that you didn't, as you truly HAVE NO IDEA what went on there, as you did not have access, period.
So, climb down off of your soapbox and shut your foaming trap about matters you do not comprehend. You deign to lecture me, Mrs. Gray, when you have NO FACTS to support what you spout?
So, let's get the record straight here and now: You have reccommended that your friends' children attend a school that openly employs staff with BOGUS CREDENTIALS. That is a fact. How dare you open that door for those poor kids? What is WRONG with you (besides your omnipresent ignorance)?
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YOu do notice that Dr. Sisk is no longer employed there and hasnt been for probalby close to 10 yrs now. I did know about the degree issue and that is probably why he isnt there now. It is not huge fraud if he was let go. I do know what I speak of as far as my own experiences. I do not claim to know about things that I didnt experience. I state facts that I do know about from personal experience (GEEZ how many times do I have to say that same damn thing to you?) And I do not feel as if HLA is a bad place so yes I told friends about it. I am not lecturing you about anything. I am stating my opinion...just like you. But you have to get hostile and condescending. I am not. But whatever.....it has no bearing on the truth, your attitude that is. So get over yourself and quit lecturing ME......because that is how it really is...not me lecturing you. THe only thing I said was to quit calling me that name..which is NOT me. The rest was just my experience and facts of what I know. YOu just dont like what I have to say. Well get over it already. I have my opinion and you have yours...so what. Its a board.
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Yes, it WAS a huge FRAUD. This guy was a FAKE and a PHONY and the big boss KNEW IT, was COMPLICIT in it, and kept him on staff for YEARS, KNOWING the "Dr." was BOGUS.
That is sort of the DEFINITION of fraud, isn't it? Keeping a phony clinician on your payroll and in charge of kids' lives (and billing exorbitantly for it) while knowing full well that the "Dr." was a QUACK. Would you not agree that this is fraud? Unethical? Irresponsible? WRONG?
Geez, you're so obtuse it's painful.
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***And I saw the parents drive up the road by my house for the workshops so I know how many parents came to pick up their children for visits and for workshops.
No doubt you saw cars every month or two, depending on the number of PGs at any given time. Parent workshops were every four months, or so, at the end of each ?Element?. They were required, or strongly encouraged, in order to see your child. That does not mean that their kid left with them after the workshop. Was I a victim of selective discrimination, or is that true for all parents? What did the parent handbook say about this? In case you don?t have one, I quoted it in an earlier post.
***I know what I know from experience and what I saw with my own eyes.
The eyes can deceive, especially if someone else is providing interpretation or explanation for what you are viewing. Had you been observing Jews filing into a large building, and been told they were going to be de-liced, I?m sure that is exactly what you would believe and tell others. ?I saw no Jews being gassed to death, just being de-liced.? All the while, their dead bodies were being carted out the backdoor.
As an aide to a teacher, how is it that you feel qualified to comment on the credentials of other employees? Are you saying that in that capacity you had access to all staff?s files and information? I thought you mailed academic progress reports to parents. Even if you had access, would you have the knowledge to determine the validity of a degree?
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tell me how long Dr. Sisk was there huh? since you know so much....ok let me tell you how long..it was under 2 yrs....the school has been in operation for almost 11 yrs. HARDLY for YEARS as you put it. Things that happened in the very beginning of the school that have since been corrected have no bearing on the workings or legitimacy of the school today. And Deborah, I did not have access to their personal files, but I did hear every time a new employee was hired, and was verbally told what school they came from,knew where the teachers went to school, and employees themselves also told me. One of the teachers was a former classmate of mine in high school and coincidently came there to work. And I personally knew the upper counseling staff or most of them anyway and knew where they graduated from and they were all legitimate degrees. So dont paint this picture of the whole staff being undereducated or whatever..because it is simply NOT TRUE and very misleading. Junction you make it sound as if you had all kinds of inside information when in fact you were an intake person for not all that long. So how does that make you an expert either? It doesnt. I never claimed to be an expert of the goings on...only what I experienced personally. But you make it sound as if you knew everything and everybody and you didnt. If you arent Dr. B or Mr Gray then you dont know everything, so quit pretending you do. I dont pretend to know everything, only the facts that I personally know. Quite different from the picture you are trying to portray of yourself. I am no expert, but neither are you.
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***So dont paint this picture of the whole staff being undereducated or whatever..because it is simply NOT TRUE and very misleading.
Would you be so kind as to provide an explanation for how you drew this outrageous conclusion from anything I said?
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That comment was directed toward the former employee otherwise known as dysfunction junction, not you. I meant to put their name before that section, sorry. [ This Message was edited by: SHH on 2005-04-08 16:47 ]
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Simmer down, DJ. According to SHH, Keeping a phony clinician on your payroll and in charge of kids' lives (and billing exorbitantly for it) while knowing full well that the "Dr." was a QUACK for just shy of 2 years is perfactly OK.
Interestingly, Straight did about the same thing. They'd hire "Dr." whatever (doctorate in anything but medicine or psyche) and play them for as long as they could for the title. Then, generally, pin all the abuse allegations on them while giving them the bum's rush.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
--Bruce Lee
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wanna know about HLA
aim at stlrfn52
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The 4 buses seat 14 dumbass. Think before you speak
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Hey, SHH, i was there, the buses sat 14 people. Most of the time, most not all, you only went off campus for sports :evil: your really pissing me off. If you want to say something 1, think about it before you say it and 2, know what your talking about
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On 2005-04-06 21:24:00, Deborah wrote:
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Based on my experience:
They not only have little to no contact with parents, but also siblings, grandparents and other extended family. My mother didn't have contact with my son for two years, except for two very brief visits- one a funeral, which took an act of congress to get him home for. Nor did my daughter, an excellent young adult role model.
You are viewing promotional material. It appears reasonable, doesn't it? Parents go into this beieving they will see their children every four months- not bad huh? Why else would they abdicate contact/ control for two years?? These programs play desperate parents like a fiddle.
Can't quote the stats, but I would bet money that the majority don't get their 8 month home visit.
While 'seasonal breaks' are listed, the teen can loose visits home due to behavioral issues OR for having academic incompletes. If the kid is not 'with the program' come 7-7.5 months, you can be assured that they will be put on restriciton and held during the break.
"Due to the eligibility requirements for seasonal breaks, we normally have a substantial percentage of our students remaining on campus during these breaks."
"To be eligible for seasonal breaks, students must meet the following criteria: *Students must have completed Earth Element to be eligible for Winter Break. * Students must have completed Water Element to be eligilble for all other seasonal breaks, including Thanksgiving Break."
In other words... depends on when their peer group forms as to whether or not they will get the upcoming seasonal break. To really get a sense of when one would be eligible, you really need to know about those 'Elements'.
Depending on how long it take for the PG to form (18 kids- 3,4 months) the end of Earth would occur between 4-8 months. The end of Water could be 8 to 12 months. Get the picture?
You can fairly reasonably assume that your kid is going to be presented by the facility to be far more 'troubled' than you had imagined, once they are enrolled. If they have tried pot, they will be harrassed until they admit they are an addict. If they have had sex, they are promicuous. You will be informed of all the 'deep, dark, secrets' they have gotten your kid to 'divulge'. And I think it's safe to say, that the majority will be presented to parents as defiant, in denial, and not working their program- hence the need to stay on campus and focus on their 'personal growth'.
I would also like to see an honest survey of how many kids actually leave campus for those fun events in Atlanta, or Dahlonega for that matter. And how many are 'fun' and how many are actually 'community service'- uh, that's 'punishment'. If those pro games and other events actually do happen, only the kids who are performing 'perfectly' will be attending. My guess, that's a very small percentage- if any at all. You can put any event you want on the calendar. How many actually happen? No 'problem' kid is going to get off the premises. Period.
If you're considering any program, you should request a copy of the Parent Manual and diligently study the fine print. Might even have an attorney or advocate review it.
Every business in the world is going to embellish their promotional materials and slant the information to their audience. Surely you know this. Just as when buying a car or home, you're a fool if you don't analyze the fine print, and ask questions if you don't understand."
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow, you really know what your talking about. I am in a rage because of your arrgoance.
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WANNA KNOW ABOUT hla
AIM Stlrfn52
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I have been observing this debate and I was thinking don't the parents have to sign something that they agree to the terms of a school's rules? If it was in the parent manual that the students might miss visits then why be shocked when it happens? I hold the parents responsible in part for whatever happens to kids at boarding schools because if they sign agreements about what is going to happen and then it does, then the parents are agreeing to whatever the kid goes through.
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You're right, anon. But what do you do when parents fuck up? Do we just let the kids suffer, even knowing that they're the generation who will take up for us when we're old and tired and incontinent? Only around 1% of parents fall for this bullshit. But it's growing. I really don't hold out a lot of hope for influencing those truely devoted cult worshipers. My aim is to hold them to shame in their communities.
Next time some dumb, narcissistic yuppie says "oh, we sent him to boarding school." hopefully the friends, family, teachers and neighbors will ask a few questions.
I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind and keep them shut by force.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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Yes, the parent should be responsible, hence the warning that they request a copy of the parent manual and study it well before making a decision. That goes for ANY program.
Otherwise, you don't get the parent manual until after you've made a commitment. Yes, you may hear the basic verbal run down. But, you won't hear the specifics. In other words, you hear 'best case scenario'. Reality can be very different. In my case, they violated several policies written in the parent manual. So, ultimately, what good is the manual?
"Because our program, at approximately 18 months in length, is shorter than many similar types of programs, we are highly structured and must adhere strictly to the planned schedule. In rare instances, this policy results in parents and students not seeing each other for approximately four to six months at the beginning of the program- depending on the length of time it takes a particular PG to form." "...necessary for helping students settle in and make commitments to their work at HLA."
"Due to the ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS for seasonal breaks, we normally have a SUBSTANTIAL percentage of our students REAMAINING ON CAMPUS during these breaks."
In case you missed it, that's a quote. Do you think they would give this warning if it weren't true? My guess is that when parents read it, they think, 'oh that won't happen to my child'. And then a few might think, 'i won't see my kid for 2 years.'
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***That comment was directed toward the former employee otherwise known as dysfunction junction, not you. I meant to put their name before that section, sorry.
Nope. Sorry, but that's 'not an accurate depiction of reality.'
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Two years of the 'fake' Dr. Sisk
and then how many years with the 'unethical' Rudy Bentz that 'no one liked':
B.A. in Literature
M.A. in Fine Arts in Creative Writing
Ed. D. in Educational Leadership
Who next? And/or in between?
Was Greg Lindsey replaced by Dr. Cates because he lacked credentials?
Greg H. Lindsey, M.A., L.P.C., has worked with families and youth for more than 20 years. As a therapist, educator and administrator, Greg has been instrumental in establishing successful and respected treatment models, treatment programs and residential centers. His insight and experience in helping parents and difficult youth has led to his involvement as a board member for national organizations. As Clinical Director for the Savannah Family Institute, Greg supervises therapists, conducts ongoing research, fulfills grants and contracts and conducts training workshops nationally. He is a Licensed Professional Therapist in Georgia and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Florida. Greg has an M.S. degree in counseling from Colorado Christian University. In private practice for seven years, Greg specialized in marriage, family and adolescent counseling. His prior work experience included five years as the headmaster of Hidden Lake Academy; a fully accredited boarding school that focused on the therapeutic and academic needs of oppositional adolescents. He also was the Director of Counseling for the Eckerd Intensive Halfway House and was Senior Therapist for the Center for Children in Crisis. He was a secondary school counselor, guidance counselor and coach for 11 years at The King?s Academy. In most of his positions he has supervised therapists and support staff, managed budgets, and consulted for other treatment facilities. Greg has particular experience in setting up Adult and Adolescent Sexual Offender Treatment centers and Parenting and Parent Training programs. ****
Questionable, depending on the definition of 'child care':
(3) Director. The governing body of the institution shall designate a director who shall be authorized to manage the institution.
(a) Any director employed on or after the effective date of these rules shall possess at
least one of the following qualifications:*
1. A masters degree from an accredited college or university in the area of social sciences, social work, childhood education, or business or public administration or a related field plus two years experience in the field of child care;*
2. A bachelors degree from an accredited college or university in the area of social sciences, social work, childhood education, or business or public administration or a related field plus four years of experience in the field of child care.*
Now, shall we take a look at the credentials of the Director of the unlicensed boot camp, woops, wilderness leadership program.
Keith Antonia , Director
Keith Antonia graduated from the University of Connecticut in 1981 with a B.S. in General Business Administration and holds a Masters degree from the Naval War College in National Security. Recently retired as a Lieutenant Colonel, Keith completed 20 highly successful years of service in the U.S. Army as an infantry officer in Airborne and Ranger units. Throughout his 20 years leading soldiers under hazardous conditions, he became an expert at managing and mitigating risk. His effort and supervision led to an outstanding safety record. His last assignment in the Army involved commanding the Mountain Phase of the U.S. Army Ranger School in Dahlonega, Georgia. His goal is to provide a rigorous but safe wilderness leadership program for Ridge Creek students. He and his family currently reside in Dahlonega, Georgia.
Any insight into why he is no longer DIRECTOR?
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-04-08 22:44 ]
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1. I was the intake counselor for ALL students coming into HLA. I know for a fact students were "diagnosed" as ODD without EVER RECEIVING A PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION. (unethical, fraudulent)
2. The "school" was full of non-credentialed employees (Tom, Dean, Lauralyn, Jill, Rudy and many others). (unethical, fraudulent)
3. People at or near the top of the hierarchy had PHONY DEGREES. (unethical, fraudulent)
4. I personally authored treatment plans for nearly every kid that came through the doors and those plans were "showed off" to the parents, but NEVER FOLLOWED. (unethical, fraudulent)
5. I have degrees in Psychology and Sociology as well as an MBA. I think I AM qualified to comment on the "treatment business."
6. I worked directly with the Headmaster and owner and was privy to information that an Operations employee could never be.
7. I personally authored the Employee Handbook.
8. I personaly authored HLA's Policy and Procedure Manual.
Do you blindly dispute these statements?
Please, Mrs. Gray, don't try to impugn my character, experience or credentials because, ONCE MORE, you are not in possession of the FACTS.
Instead of saying "the problems have been corrected," why can you not simply admit, even if it was early on in the "school's" history, that MANY parents were defrauded out of hundreds of thousands of dollars and nearly every child was cheated out of what they deserved?
Your arguments would take on more gravity if you appeared less like a sycophant and more like a thoughtful debater.
If you would like to debate the efficacy of this treatment modality or this specific institution, I would be glad to do so, but not if I have to supply baseline information to educate you to the level where you can sustain a coherent argument. That you will have to do on your own. Until you do so, your points will be flatly rejected as raw speculation, which is precisely what they are.
I mean, you don't even know how many seats were on the goddamn buses, even though you claim to have examined them. If you can't even get the TANGIBLE facts straight, how can you argue the theoretical?[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-04-09 06:52 ]
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On 2005-04-08 19:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have been observing this debate and I was thinking don't the parents have to sign something that they agree to the terms of a school's rules? If it was in the parent manual that the students might miss visits then why be shocked when it happens? I hold the parents responsible in part for whatever happens to kids at boarding schools because if they sign agreements about what is going to happen and then it does, then the parents are agreeing to whatever the kid goes through."
Yes, make no mistake that the parents are accountable for sending kids to these awful places and often for the behavioral problems the children exhibit.
The question is, "Who is going to advocate for the imprisoned child when the parents abdicate responsibility?"
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::bump::
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Mrs. Grey as happy as it makes me tosee you back here and to shoot all of your retarded comments down why are we discussing the same things over and over again? Its been established and verified several times over that you have no basis for claiming HLA to be a postive enviornment as you had little to no involvement with the day to day workings of the school. In terms you might better understand, why talk about things when its obvious to everyone you dont have a fucking clue?
Since youve apparently finished your big project early though let me ask you, did you ever go ahead and make those calls to all those agencies I refered you to in order to verify the proper liscensure of HLA. Also what about all those pictures you went on and on about. Looking forward to hearing back from you Mrs. Grey.
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Robert, don't hold your breath waiting for an intelligent response from Mrs. Gray. You won't get one.
And the research you asked her to do? You can forget that. Even if she did make the calls she would simply come on here and lie directly rather than admit you were indeed correct and that she has absolutely no idea about what she's "discussing."
I have thoroughly shot down her "arguments" (if you can call them that) but yet she persists in giving feeble excuses about HLA and resorting to ad hominem attacks that have no basis in reality.
Each and every time she has posted I have thoroughly rebutted her fallacious statements and faulty logic using nothing but documented facts, but that seems not to matter to her.
Like I said, don't hold your breath...
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality"
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-04-10 11:44 ]
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You know ...I havent come on here and insulted you in a personal way..I disagree with statements made on here that are exxagerated and out of context. but you have...very mature indeed...very mature..not like I give a flying rats ass though...because no matter how many times you say I am LYING I am NOT lying about what I experienced. SO WHAT if I didnt remember EXACTLY how many seats were on the buses...my point was that there ARE buses to transport to events. The last time I rode on the buses it was 1999 and almost 6 years ago. And Robert I havent had time to research anything about the sites you mentioned I have BETTER things to do like go to work and raise kids and take care of disabled family members. And my pictures are in a storage buiilding I rent that I havent been able to get to because of working late at work until after dark, and it has no interior lighting. and damnit QUIT CALLING ME MRS GRAY!!!!!!!!!!!! that is NOT my name. Want me to start calling you by your REAL names "Robert" and "Dysfunction" ???? I will if you dont cut the immature crap and start calling me by SHH. I asked nicely twice......Now Im not going to ask so nicely anymore...QUIT CALLING ME MRS GRAY. CAPICHE??????? GOOD!
OH and yes dysfunction you have bashed me sooooo sufficiently..dont you feel intelligent now. You know there were only 12 children the first 2 months of the school being in existence..within the year I think it totaled 40..you worked SOOOO hard on those 40 kids doing their intakes didnt you. Quit exagerating your position I know precisly who was in charge then and who called the shots and it WASNT YOU so quit dreaming. You really need to get a life and quit dwelling on something that happened 11 years ago. The school is a FAR different place then those first 2 years so if the school has improved and fixed mistakes made who the hell cares now??? Its done, in the past, over with...get over it already.
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Thats was for you Mrs Gray :wave:
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Anonymous person you messed up the board with your response. Now it's almost impossible to read. Please edit.
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Unfortunately, anons can't edit their posts. Maybe Ginger will see it and be able to fix it.
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SHH,
You have been disrespectful. You accuse others of lying and exaggerating.
And frequently take the discussion off track by arguing fairly mute points.
Ex: I don't think anyone said anything about HLA not having buses. That wasn't the argument, which you now seem to be stuck on.
But, while we're on the topic... 4(14)=56
That's about a third of the school population, if ALL buses were used.
Technically speaking, they could have a fleet of buses and rarely use them.
The question posed was, how many kids actually attend those 'fun' event in Atlanta?
I'm not necessarily asking you, because based on your previous comments I'm certain you couldn't answer definitively. But, perhaps there are some ex-staff or students who can give their perspective/experience.
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Mrs. Grey how can you be so adament about things having changed if you havent been there in so many years? Also if youre claiming things have changed wouldnt that mean that those of us who attended the schools at the time youre refering to would have a legitimate claim against the school? Im also curious as to why you are willing to endorse the school so thouroughly yet are not willing to examine all the facts? Why is that?
Oh and go ahead and announce my name Mrs. Grey if you even can.
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from the sidelines it looks like both sides have been disrespectful. This should be a discussion about what can be done to improve things, not dwell on who's experience is more valid or who can insult who more adequately. They are calling her a liar as much as she is calling them one. All's fair in love and war (and message boards) I suppose.
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Good grief, lady, if you don't want to be stuck with a nickname like "Mrs. Grey" it's up to *you* to supply a different one by creating a username with whatever you *do* want to be called.
You jump up and down screaming, "Don't disrespect me!"
Get over it. Your action in not creating a screen name for yourself and using it is bringing that part of it on yourself.
At least, if you *do* have a screen name, I've forgotten it.
I'm notorious for forgetting to log myself in, but people can identify me and have something non-insulting to call me because I sign my posts with my screen name.
It also helps if the screenname you pick is something pronouncable. Give people something to call you, that you don't mind being called, and most of them will oblige. Most of us couldn't give a rip what your "real" name is, anyway. Just like most everyone else here doesn't give a rip about mine--even though I've openly mentioned it several times.
Big whoop. Would I sound too much like a program person if I said to get over your drama?
TimocleaThe world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's no good evidence. Far better, it seems to me, to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.
--Carl Sagan
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People only went on trips if they were in the upper elements. Wind,Glalax, and sometimes fire.
FORMER STUDENDT GRAD AUG 03
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Her user name is SHH
I dont know why they keep calling her Mrs Grey or Gray
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Because she is the ex-wife of Mr. Gray, who is apparently still employed there.
As to why it upsets her so badly that they call her by her former name, one could only guess. I do wonder how long she will rant about it and demand they stop before she realizes that its 'out of her control'.
I would also imagine the shoe fits a little snug on the other foot, when the program apologist is being subjected to the program methods.
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I FUCKING HATE HLA :flame:
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On 2005-04-10 15:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You know ...I havent come on here and insulted you in a personal way..I disagree with statements made on here that are exxagerated and out of context. but you have...very mature indeed...very mature..not like I give a flying rats ass though...because no matter how many times you say I am LYING I am NOT lying about what I experienced. SO WHAT if I didnt remember EXACTLY how many seats were on the buses...my point was that there ARE buses to transport to events. The last time I rode on the buses it was 1999 and almost 6 years ago. And Robert I havent had time to research anything about the sites you mentioned I have BETTER things to do like go to work and raise kids and take care of disabled family members. And my pictures are in a storage buiilding I rent that I havent been able to get to because of working late at work until after dark, and it has no interior lighting. and damnit QUIT CALLING ME MRS GRAY!!!!!!!!!!!! that is NOT my name. Want me to start calling you by your REAL names "Robert" and "Dysfunction" ???? I will if you dont cut the immature crap and start calling me by SHH. I asked nicely twice......Now Im not going to ask so nicely anymore...QUIT CALLING ME MRS GRAY. CAPICHE??????? GOOD!
OH and yes dysfunction you have bashed me sooooo sufficiently..dont you feel intelligent now. You know there were only 12 children the first 2 months of the school being in existence..within the year I think it totaled 40..you worked SOOOO hard on those 40 kids doing their intakes didnt you. Quit exagerating your position I know precisly who was in charge then and who called the shots and it WASNT YOU so quit dreaming. You really need to get a life and quit dwelling on something that happened 11 years ago. The school is a FAR different place then those first 2 years so if the school has improved and fixed mistakes made who the hell cares now??? Its done, in the past, over with...get over it already."
Mrs. Gray,
I'm not here hiding my identity. I have an email address that can be used to contact me directly. No bag over my head.
If you want to use my real name, go ahead. I really couldn't care less.
Just for your edification: You cannot now, nor will you ever be able to control me or dictate the agenda here. If you think you have that kind of power, you need to shorten your baseline expectations and reacquaint yourself with objective reality.
Now, back to our "debate." Do you contest any of the statements I have made in my last post? You seem not to. If you do, maybe you should try refuting those points rather than vainly and impotently trying to control the dialogue...
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I asked nicely the first 3 or 4 times to not address me by Mrs. Gray to please address me as SHH...you refuse..for what reason I have no idea other than to be juvenile about it. I have my reasons for not wanting to be called that name mainly because I am NOT Mrs. Gray, I am SHH. Mrs. Gray is Mr. Gray's wife and his mother. Since you won't honor my request, I won't honor yours by responding to you. But I would have otherwise.
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hahahahahahaha :wstupid:
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On 2005-04-13 18:26:00, SHH wrote:
"I asked nicely the first 3 or 4 times to not address me by Mrs. Gray to please address me as SHH...you refuse..for what reason I have no idea other than to be juvenile about it. I have my reasons for not wanting to be called that name mainly because I am NOT Mrs. Gray, I am SHH. Mrs. Gray is Mr. Gray's wife and his mother. Since you won't honor my request, I won't honor yours by responding to you. But I would have otherwise. "
Mrs. Gray,
You are the prototypical "control freak." When backed into a "logical corner" you resort to the only real control you have: you shut up.
I'll take your refusal to answer as confirmation that you are unable to refute anything I have said.
Thanks for your "response." "Actions speak louder than words..."
BTW, how do you think a 15-year-old girl feels when she's called a "slut" or a "whore" for 18 straight months because, at some time in the past, she had sex?
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Mrs. Gray Dysfunction is right on you routinley come on here attacking others and attempting to refute their claims yet when asked to back up your own claims you refuse as well as examine the facts about HLA when placed right in front of you. Further you make idle threats on which you can never make good, and when forced into such a corner as being proven wrong and unwilling to admitt you run away in fear. Youre a lying coward. Its time you accepted these facts about yourself.
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I am not afraid of YOU or of Dysfunction...LMAO that is the funniest thing Ive read all day!!! Thanks for the laugh! Actually I haven't run anywhere.and I'm not afraid of anything anybody posts on here..I dont FEEL like answering Dysfunction because they won't respect my wishes and call me by something other than Mrs. Gray...and you won't either..so I CHOOSE not to respond because I don't feel like it or in some cases some questions are things I have no knowledge of nor do I have statistics yet or I am researching. I have PLENTY to answer you can bet on that....but I don't want to at this time. I am sure I will answer most of whatever questions are put forth to me that I CAN answer of my knowledge of things, but I am CHOOSING not to respond. By the way, I asked you not to call me a child abuser...you KNOW that I am not one...That is slander/libel and you know it so I would appreciate if you would not use that terminology on me. I never touched nor abused a single child of my own nor at HLA, no matter how much you want others to believe that. So quit imagining that CRAP.
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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
Mrs Gray :wave:
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Who said you were afraid of us? No much rather youre simply afraid of the truth and of course of being exposed for what you are and what the school is. Like I said you need to accept things as they are. Your constant denial might be a sympton of a bigger issue. Have you thought about possibly seeing if you could enroll yourself at HLA Im sure if you offer them enough theyll accept you. Oh still waiting for you to make good on any of your threats.
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Afraid of what truth ? your truth? I know what the truth is and quite frankly most of what I see on here is exxagerations and misrepresentations of what actually went on there. You have to remember something....people posting on here are former disgruntled employees who were fired and former students who didnt like being sent somewhere out in the boondocks for a year and a half to two years. In Deborah's case she is neither but she is a parent who didn't have full custody of her child and didnt agree with her ex sending her son there. I dont blame her for being upset about that necessarily, but I dont agree with alot of her statements either. So you didnt like HLA....thats fine....but slandering it to death with half-truths is unfair and I am not afraid of stating what I DO know about the school and defending it for what I experienced there. And I am not afraid of your statement of "being exposed for what I am" as you say....what would I be exposed as? LOL Being a 39 yr old mother of 2 who takes care of disabled family members and works in a career in banking??? LOL yea Im real afraid. I am what I said I am. NOthing more, nothing less. So I can't research every website on the net to find info that I have seen about HLA to copy and paste here yet. So I dont have time to get to my storage room to get those pics...So WHAT....Ill get to it eventually..on my own time...its not my priority. I dont run away in fear of anything on THIS board or any other. I post on several other ones also. If you dont see me post it is because I either am not online or dont feel its worth it. So go ahead and say what you will. Expose me for whatever the hell you THINK I am. Its all bullshit anyway and I could care less because I have NOTHING to hide and am not ashamed of anything I have ever done.
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On 2005-04-14 14:11:00, SHH wrote:
I never touched nor abused a single child of my own nor at HLA, no matter how much you want others to believe that.
No, you just processed them into HLA where they would be systematically abused and then called them liars and worse when they try to describe what happened to them here.
So you don't like being called Mrs. Gray. How about Resident Slut? Since you've obviously had sex and been divorced, wouldn't that be the proper HLA term for you? No? How about Resident Hypocrite? Better?
the war on drugs is but one manifestation, albeit a very dramatic one, of the great moral contests of our age -- the struggle between two diametrically opposed images of man: between man as responsible moral agent, 'condemned' to freedom, benefiting and suffering from the consequences of his actions; and man as irresponsible child, unfit for freedom, 'protected' from its risks by agents of the omnicompetent state.
--Thomas Szasz
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Yea thats right...youre as bad as Robert...calling me names because I got divorced...yea WHATEVER....do you realize how nuts that statement is??? LMAO....calling me names over getting divorced has absolutely NOTHING to do with treatment at a boarding school. Would you be willing to call Deborah a slut because she is divorced??? I didnt think so. (Im not calling you one Deborah) You werent even there Antigen. You believe what someone else that you dont even know is telling you. AND...I did not process any children into a boarding facility. That was Dysfunction's job if you want to be specific. I was a teacher's assistant..I typed, copied, and mailed progress reports and report cards to parents, grandparents, educational consultants, and probation officers. How in the HELL is that abusive??? Antigen you have had many a discussion about abuse with my current husband over at the SEED board. I DO KNOW what is an abusive program and what is not. HLA is one far-ass cry from the SEED or the old Straight programs. And I have not insulted every student who comes on here...but I have told a few they were exxagerating. I am no abuser, slut, or hypocrit..or whatever chosen name you pick to call me other than SHH. JUST because I had a different experience than what is portrayed on here..I get called slut and abuser??? nice...real mature....since when have I ever called any of you a slut? or abuser? NEVER. Just goes to show the true nature of people huh? Very interesting from a sociology point of view. And very revealing too! :grin:
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Ginger,
SHH knows so little that she failed to get your drift, or would like to appear dumb and 'attacked'. Probably the former. You'll have to explain if it's important to you that she understands.
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-04-14 16:53 ]
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On 2005-04-14 16:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yea thats right...youre as bad as Robert...calling me names because I got divorced...yea WHATEVER..
Don't you know that parents pay thousands per month for this treatment? And here you are getting it for free online. You don't even have to get up off your dead ass OR do any marching or deal w/ the bad food and smelly asses or anything. Some people!
Ok then, Ungrateful Hypocritical Slut then. God! All of these comforting and reasonable things were taught by the ministers in their pulpits -- by teachers in Sunday schools and by parents at home. The children were victims. They were assaulted in the cradle -- in their mother's arms. Then, the schoolmaster carried on the war against their natural sense, and all the books they read were filled with the same impossible truths. The poor children were helpless. The atmosphere they breathed was filled with lies -- lies that mingled with their blood.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
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HEY, CUNT
IF YOU DONT LIKE WHAT U HEAR THEN SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DONT REPLY TO ANYTHING. SOMETIMES YOUR STUPIDITY BLOWS MY MIND :scared:
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MRs Gray
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Cows may come, and Cows may go, but the bull in this place goes on forever.
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Mrs. Gray,
Don't you think that people that worked at HLA or "students" at the facility have the most insight into what goes on there? Wouldn't you agree that this is so?
Also, who are the "fired," disgruntled ex-employees posting here? I seem to recall a teacher who resigned. Then there's me, another resignation. Who was fired? Are you talking out of your ass once again? It appears so.
"HLA is one far-ass cry from the SEED or the old Straight programs." Yes, it is. It is more sophisticated, less outwardly appalling, and manifold more expensive. Does that make it any less abusive? How about any more effective? Study after study after study shows that these treatment modalities are ineffective at best, incredibly damaging at worst.
BTW, I do find it amusing that you, Mrs. Gray, cannot handle "program tactics" on a part-time basis, thru cyberspace. Again, how do you think CHILDREN feel when they are berated like this face-to-face, day after day, night after night, ad infinitum, until the parents' money runs out?
What about the CHILDREN who have had "different experiences," as you say it, but are treated in a one-size-fits-all facility that "treats" everything from "homosexuality" to "oppositional defiance"?
Did you know that over 90% of the "students" at HLA have been labeled (not diagnosed, as they never receive psychological evaluations) as having "Oppositional Defiance Disorder" and that ODD has recently been dropped as a diagnosis by the mental health community because it is NOT a disorder at all? What's the next "moneymaker" "diagnosis" these kids can be labeled with at HLA?
I don't know why you continue to rail against the facts of the matter, Mrs. Gray. It's interesting from a psychological point of view...
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On 2005-04-14 16:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yea thats right...youre as bad as Robert...calling me names because I got divorced...yea WHATEVER....do you realize how nuts that statement is??? LMAO....calling me names over getting divorced has absolutely NOTHING to do with treatment at a boarding school. Would you be willing to call Deborah a slut because she is divorced??? I didnt think so. (Im not calling you one Deborah) You werent even there Antigen. You believe what someone else that you dont even know is telling you. AND...I did not process any children into a boarding facility. That was Dysfunction's job if you want to be specific. I was a teacher's assistant..I typed, copied, and mailed progress reports and report cards to parents, grandparents, educational consultants, and probation officers. How in the HELL is that abusive??? Antigen you have had many a discussion about abuse with my current husband over at the SEED board. I DO KNOW what is an abusive program and what is not. HLA is one far-ass cry from the SEED or the old Straight programs. And I have not insulted every student who comes on here...but I have told a few they were exxagerating. I am no abuser, slut, or hypocrit..or whatever chosen name you pick to call me other than SHH. JUST because I had a different experience than what is portrayed on here..I get called slut and abuser??? nice...real mature....since when have I ever called any of you a slut? or abuser? NEVER. Just goes to show the true nature of people huh? Very interesting from a sociology point of view. And very revealing too! :grin: "
Interesting your husband married a captor after being held by some.
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Again Mrs. Gray you post as if you have some knowledge of what goes on at HLA. Weve made this beyond clear you dont. Since this is the case how can assert that we are telling half truths and exagerations? Now you are certianlly entitled to claim that you never saw or knew of the things we are refering to ( as an employee of HLA denial would automatically have to be a big part of your job description anyway) but to call us liars when you have no such basis, and are refusing to examine the facts for yourself is just one more testament to what a hypocritical bitch you are Mrs. Gray. Im curious though, how is it you have the time to contact the health dept about the score the cafeteria recieved, yet dont have the time to call them back on the full story or the Lumpkin County Register or the ORS? Oh still still still waiting for you to make good on your empty threats. Or have you forgotten mine and Dysfunctions names?
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Good day to all present and former HLA people. I worked at HLA for about 8 months and there was some things I agreed with and some I did not agree with. I worked there while Marla was there. For me the HLA experience was like any other job you like some things and you dislike some things. If you dislike things then you move on. I was a counselor and I had experience before going into the job and I did not feed into the admin. I did my job like it was describe in the job description. I was not fired. I left because I wanted to pursue a teaching and coaching career and to spend more time with my children. The school is a therapeutic boarding school which consist of students that have emotional, behavioral, drug and alchol, and family problems. Some belong and some do not belong. The school is not supposed to be easy. Yes you have students there who cut, yes you have homosexuals there, yes you have students who may get into fights, and yes you have some inexperience counselors and teachers. But anyone who will enroll their child make sure its the best situation for there student. The school does have some success and no therapy is 100 percent gaurenteed. Every school and/or job has it good and bad sides. The school has some good things but does need some revamping to make it a better experience for the staff and students.
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HLA at a Glance from a former employees eyes! When I left HLA it was some what emotional because I did make friends and I loved working with my peer groups and some of the students. I also coached basketball up there.
The school is ran by a dictatorship! If you do not do what they say you have to do then you will get fired, and some staff cannot afford to leave that situation because they have to feed their families.
The schools last inspection was the either in Jan. or Feb. of 2005. When I was there I did not eat any soup especially after they found maggots in the soup. They had the same thing each week. I used to call fridays. "Fish Fridays". While on restrictions student had to clean up, do pt, writing assignments, break down boxes and take out the trash. (All I witnessed) The students had one phone call a week with their parents and they could email sibblings and families at parents discretion. They were not allowed to have contact with friends untill the eight month, and that was because some of their friends were the reason they were in their current situation. Some of the activities students went on is Atlanta Braves games, plays in Atlanta, movies, skatting, bowling, Atlanta Falcans games, sports at the school. Some things I did not agree with is when students, teachers, and counselors had to sit at Lower left, lake front, or GYM for hours at the time looking at the woods.
I did my job and moved on with my life, but I always looked out for the best interest of my Peer Groups. The student did do community service. But people its a Therapuetic Boarding School, What do you expect. No addict or student wants to be away from home trying to change their ways that may have destroyed their home life and that is destroying their bodies and life.
Parents before you send you students there do your homework and make sure its the best place for you. According to The Georgia Independent Schools Website (http://www.gisa-schools.org/ (http://www.gisa-schools.org/)), they are accrideted by GAC and SACS, and members of the NAIS and SAIS. ITS NOT FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!
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??????
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#95826 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9171&forum=9&start=10#95826)
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Macaroni,
Welcome. You said:
Some things I did not agree with is when students, teachers, and counselors had to sit at Lower left, lake front, or GYM for hours at the time looking at the woods.
What do you mean 'lower left, lake front or Gym'? What was the purpose and why did staff and teachers have to participate?
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***yes you have homosexuals there
Was this considered a mental illness or a 'problem behavior' that could be 'fixed' with isolation from the world and BM?
If so, did you find this a bit contradictory? Given that the owner is homosexual, why would his program 'treat' homosexuality?
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Wait...Where's SHH? We need her to come in here and tell Macaroni that he's lying.
That there is NO racism in Dahlonega.
That there were NO maggots in the food.
That he DID get fired and IS disgruntled.
Geez, SHH. You're flagging...
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Thank you for finally respecting my wishes with the SHH thing.
1) there is NO racism in Dahlonega..you have it confused with Dawson county 15 miles south. Blacks live in Dahlonega. It is Cumming and Dawsonville who have a race issue or used to anyway. You were wrong about that one Dysfunction. The KKK branch in North Georgia is in Dawson County. Look it up if you don't believe me. Blacks come and go and work and go to college and are tourists there in Dahlonega without a single race incident in the 20 something years I either visited Dahlonega or lived there, and I lived in Dahlonega for 5 1/2 years.
2) I dont know anything about maggots, that certainly never happened the 7 yrs I was visiting and lived at the school, but part of the soup stock used to come from the food service and its possible that it came contaminated from the factory which of course either way wouldnt be good. We had that happen at my high school one time...food that came off the truck that had spoiled already.
3) Anybody who leaves a job they didnt like would be disgruntled but I know this one quit, not fired.
4)I am not going to tell him he is lying because I have no facts of this particular person. The only people I have accused of lying is the ones who stated things that I happen to KNOW FOR A FACT that they are.
Hi Macaroni by the way...Im SHH, I knew the school from 3 months before it opened (in sept 1994) until February 2001. I was married to the director of operations and worked parttime as a teachers clerical asst. for a year.
Happy now?? LOL
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***1) there is NO racism in Dahlonega
SHH, are you totally disregarding a black man's experience in Dahlonega? Is that an indirect accusation that he is lying or exaggerating? Again, it appears that if you didn't experience it first hand, then it must not exist. That's a pretty narrow view of the world, SHH.
He said:
In my 8 months working in Dahlonega, I could feel the looks, stares, and heard some of the comments made about black folks. I never heard staff at HLA say anything, but I will never live or work in that area again in my life. I can't say that its the home of the KKK but I know there are some in Dahlonega and I prayed everyday that my car would never breakdown on Waseaga Road or any where north of Atlanta.
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#95914 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8823&forum=41&start=10#95914)
The presence of a few 'brave' black people in the community does not prove there is no racism. Nor does the lack of any 'racial' incidents.
Have you viewed the demographics?
98.5% One race
1.5% Black
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Q- ... ,+ga&hl=en (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Q-CxDqz2LPgJ:www.business.gsw.edu/busa/cbed/Dahlonega%2520GA.ppt+racial+%2B+dahlonega,+ga&hl=en)
Here?s a gem from White Revolution:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:PE ... ial+&hl=en (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:PEcGFtb8vxIJ:www.whiterevolution.com/wrra/march142003text.shtml+dahlonega,+ga+%2B+race+racial+&hl=en)
And specifically about Doles and his organization:
But Pilar Verdes of Mundo Hispánico decided to see what the neo-Nazis had to say. She got an earful ? especially after she attended a private rally held afterward at the DAHLONEGA home of NATIONAL ALLIANCE organizer Chester Doles, a former KLAN GRAND DRAGON himself.
"I was having an out-of-body experience," Verdes says. "I kept having to pinch myself. I never thought they would be so stupid to say those things. I was not hiding my tape recorder. They're very exhibitionist. And scary."
"This nation was founded by white men," Steven Barry, editor of the neo-Nazi Resister magazine and then an Alliance principal, told Verdes. "We don't need colors." Barry went on to talk about his models for resisting the Hispanic influx.
http://www.faithandthecity.org/issues/s ... rnia.shtml (http://www.faithandthecity.org/issues/social/articles/The%20Battle%20of%20Georgiafornia.shtml)
You?re Hispanic? If Doles had his way, you?d be out-of-there !!!
Doles led a march around the blooming crepe myrtles of Gainesville's town square, bellowing: "What do we want?"
"Mexicans out!" came the answer.
"When do we want it?"
"Now!"
****
I know racism is alive and well in Dahlonega, so that's all the research I'm willing to provide for your education. You must live in a fairy-tale kind of bubble. If you don't see or hear it, it doesn't exist.
You 'just wanted to set the record straight on that'?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-04-17 08:40 ]
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C'Mon, Deborah! What's wrong with you? If Mrs. Gray hasn't PERSONALLY experienced something, then that something, whatever it may be, NEVER HAPPENED.
FACTS have no place here and are forthwith objectively extirpated.
Like this: Here's a "scientific lie" for you. Maggots are the larvae of flies. Flies lay their eggs on food. Flies cannot lay eggs in, nor can larvae develop in, a factory sealed can of soup. Mrs. Gray says the food was pre-spoiled (i.e. "factory fresh" maggots delivered to HLA), so this scientific conclusion is an obvious lie. Time to revamp biology texts I guess.
Look, Deborah, you'll get along a lot better on this board if you simply ignore evrything that isn't specifically designated as FACT by Mrs. Gray, a world-renowned "factologist."
She has the unique ability to qualify or disqualify any statement at any time based on her experience.
Example: "Space is a vacuum." Mrs. Gray's likely response: "I've never experienced space as a vacuum. You're a disgruntled liar."
As to your articles, well, Mrs. Gray never saw a racist rally in Dahlonega, therefore YOU are a disgruntled liar.
Get it, Deborah?
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Deborah this particular post was typed before I ever went to the OTHER page where he made those comments....I was referring to Dysfunction's comments on this one. Dont confuse the two postings. What I meant and what you chose to TWIST was that I PERSONALLY never saw racism...nor heard about it, or read anything about it anywhere in all the years I was associated with Lumpkin Co. Dawson county IS the head of the KKK (current) and if a FORMER grand dragon lives in Dahlonega that has no bearing on the rest of the population's prejudice or lack therof. It is Dawson county and Forsyth county that I personally have heard and witnessed racism. Lumpkin Co. is NOT known to have a problem....I did say in my OTHER post that I was sorry that Macaroni felt uncomfortable..I did NOT call him a liar. Quit twisting my words to fit YOUR agenda. There is also quite a large hispanic group living in Dahlonega also, and the head of the Jail at Lumpkin Co. Jail is hispanic and someone I know personally. I also know a Spanish professor, black chef, and puerto rican chef IN Dahlonega...it might have a very small population who are backwards....but the VAST majority of Dahlonega folks are NOT prejudice, and I am sorry that Macaroni had a bad experience. As a hispanic female I never did encounter any problems whatsoever living in Lumpkin Co. and I was open about my being hispanic. I have actually encountered more prejudice in the state I now currently live in then when I lived in north GA.
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Dysfunction there are NO RALLIES in Lumpkin Co. they are BANNED. THey have had rallies in downtown Cumming GA when I lived there and they were reduced to having to shut down because people protested and threw things at them. They are NOT allowed on the public streets in Lumpkin Co. And I have NEVER EVER heard of one in Lumpkin Co in the past 20 yrs.
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read this carefully Deborah..it says PRIVATE....PRIVATE....there are NO LEGAL RALLIES ever allowed in Lumpkin Co. They would be asked to leave or arrested..I know the policies of the county. It is NOT tolerated by the county if they know about it. Obviously they ddidnt know about this one because it was on private property. ONE racist bastard does not make a racist county.
"a private rally held afterward at the DAHLONEGA home of NATIONAL ALLIANCE organizer Chester Doles, a former KLAN GRAND DRAGON"
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Oh yes honey, I get it!!
And I bet those maggots couldn't have possibly been caused by the flies a student complained about.
SHH set her straight too. No flies either.
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Has the health dept shut down the kitchen???? NO...has the state shut down the school???? NO....has anybody ever died from food served at the school???? NO.....if it was THAT horrible it would have been.....when I was there I NEVER saw flies other than normal ones that occasionally came in from outside through the screen door when it was open....like a normal house. And I saw some at the dumpster. I never saw "flies swarming" or maggots or anything like that. Like I said my perspective was from 1994-2001. I cant claim to see anything after that but when my mother in law worked there you can be assured that she did what she could to make sure everything was safe. She is NOT neglectful and raised 3 kids in a healthy environment and she knows what cleanliness is. She is one of the most "neat-freak" people I know. Her house was SPOTLESS, and you can also be assured that if any maggots were found the food service was notified and any unsafe practices that were discovered in the kitchen like leaving food uncovered or whatever was taken care of. If not the health dept would have shut them down long ago. They shut down restaurants in town so they arent slack.
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***What I meant and what you chose to TWIST was that I PERSONALLY never saw racism...nor heard about it, or read anything about it anywhere in all the years I was associated with Lumpkin Co.
Nope. Not true. I didn't 'twist' your words. You said, verbatim, "There is NO racism in Dahlonega".
You are getting closer to the truth when you said, "it might have a very small population who are backwards....but the VAST majority of Dahlonega folks are NOT prejudice.."
You really think Doles is a lone racist living in the hills of Dahonega, storing up weapons?
Dear lord, now you would have us believe that there is no racism because public rallies are banned, illegal. And if they weren't??? And if lynching weren't??? And if burning crosses in people of color's yards weren't???
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Dysfunction said that I never saw rallies in Dahlonega and insinuated that there were rallies in town. And I stated that there was no such thing that happened in Dahlonega (the rallies on the square he made sound as if was some sort of fact that there were) I did type that there was no racism in Dahlonega because I never heard in all the 20 yrs I visited and lived there anything about racism or racist incidents EVER. But I did state about the other counties that DO have a problem. That wasn't an error. Deborah I have been to many states in my life, and I know what state you live in and dont know about your particular state, but I do have experiences in UNSouthern states where the racism was FAR more rampant. In Detroit Michigan for instance, near downtown there is a middle class neighborhood just north of downtown. They have actually built dirt mounds inbetwen connecting streets to keep the black folks and the white folks separate. Why I have no clue but that is what I saw and what a resident told me they were there for. Also, in nw neighborhoods such as novi, and northville, and farmington, a black person would not be welcome. And this is Detroit, with a very large black population. I was shocked. Also, in northern michigan, there are almost 0 percent blacks. I saw more bigotry in that state then I ever saw in Atlanta or north georgia. I did see racism in southern georgia too. Neighborhoods were very much divided etc.
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http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/gan/text_vers ... 18-04.html (http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/gan/text_version/press_textversion/03-18-04.html)
"According to the indictment and a FBI affidavit filed in this case, DOLES, of 615 Winters Mountain Road in Dahlonega, is cited in federal documents as the Georgia unit leader of the National Alliance (NA), a white supremacist organization..."
http://www.whiterevolution.com/wrra/mar ... text.shtml (http://www.whiterevolution.com/wrra/march292003text.shtml)
Support for Doles.
http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/list- ... groups.htm (http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/list-us-hate-groups.htm)
Lists Dahlonega as headquarters for NA.
Nope, no racism there. Clean bill of health. Must be some phonied-up news from disgruntled liars...
Thanks, Mrs. Gray, for your hard-hitting investigative reporting into the race issue in Dahlonega. You've done another great "objective" story...
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Get on the current topic, SHH. No one is bad mouthing your MIL. This is a recent report.
Like the ?04 grad who complained about most of the food being fried and few choices for vegetarian. She was accused of lying/exaggerating. But as it turns out.... her comments were accurate:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=80#85408 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5722&forum=9&start=80#85408)
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When I said retired I meant from the KKK as the article states....retired grand dragon...and the NA is his own creation and he is probably a legend in his own twisted mind, he runs it out of his own property but that still doesnt make Dahlonega FULL of white supremacists..other people from other counties visit him on his own property that doesnt mean that fellow Lumpkin Co. residents are his followers. by the way I have to go take care of family members, mop the floor, finish the laundry and go grocery shopping so feel free to bash in my absence...just wanted to clarify why I wont be posting so yall dont think Ive "run away in fear" LMAO (still laughing over that one)
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So, again, you didn't read the article? NO, NA is not his creation. It is a NATIONAL hate group with branches in dozens of states with THOUSANDS of members. He happens to be its Georgia branch leader and its headquarters are in DAHLONEGA.
Do I have to spell out everything for you? I hate to reduce things to base terms, but you're just plain STUPID, lady. There's really no other way to describe you. Ignorant and arrogant at the same time. Obviously bereft of cognitive skills. You're like the really dumb kid in class that holds the group back and everyone else gets frustrated because they know you should be in special ed.
I have to admit, you frustrate me. That being said, I will not let you post obvious prevarications without rebuttal, no matter how frustrating it gets.
OK, next lie please. I'm waiting...
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality"
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-04-17 11:18 ]
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On 2005-04-17 10:53:00, SHH wrote:
"When I said retired I meant from the KKK as the article states....retired grand dragon...and the NA is his own creation and he is probably a legend in his own twisted mind, he runs it out of his own property but that still doesnt make Dahlonega FULL of white supremacists..other people from other counties visit him on his own property that doesnt mean that fellow Lumpkin Co. residents are his followers. by the way I have to go take care of family members, mop the floor, finish the laundry and go grocery shopping so feel free to bash in my absence...just wanted to clarify why I wont be posting so yall dont think Ive "run away in fear" LMAO (still laughing over that one)"
Yeah, he must be some kind of loner with a few followers from other counties, right? WRONG.
"History of the National Alliance
The National Alliance has its roots in the Youth for Wallace campaign, established by Willis Carto, the anti-Semitic founder of Liberty Lobby, in support of the 1968 presidential bid of Alabama Governor George Wallace. After Wallace's defeat, Carto renamed his organization the National Youth Alliance and attempted to recruit college students to his increasingly radical cause. In 1970, William Pierce, who had been an associate of George Lincoln Rockwell and the American Nazi Party, left the National Socialist White People's Party, the successor to the ANP, to join the National Youth Alliance. In addition to Pierce, the National Youth Alliance attracted several former ANP activists, and they ultimately led the organization away from Carto's influence.
By 1974, the organization had split into separate factions, and Pierce's wing became known as the National Alliance. Since then, Pierce has run the group and edited its magazine, National Vanguard (originally titled Attack!), as well as an internal newsletter, National Alliance Bulletin (formerly called Action). He is also in charge of the group's "American Dissident Voices" weekly radio address, and controls other businesses associated with the NA: National Vanguard Books, Resistance Records and Cymophane Records."
Weekly radio addresses? National Vanguard magazine? A book publisher and two record companies? The largest neo-nazi group in America?
Yeah, THAT sounds like one retired klansman with a few out-of-town guests at his house. Mrs. Gray, you are a fucking idiot, plain and simple.
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ICH LIEBE DAHLONEGAH :smokin:
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Mrs. Grey do you not realize the more you talk the more you reveal what a stupid bitch you are? Willing to go on and on about any subject so long as its an understood you know nothing about it. Are you honestly trying to insinuate that racism is more rampant in the north than in the south? Dumbass open up a history book, or for more current events call up the SPLC. Oh my apologies I forgot Im talking to someone who rode the short bus to school. The SPLC is the Southern Poverty Law Center, emphasis on the Southern you moron. Now I realize you are capable of admitting when wrong due to your disorder and will very soon change the subject, but again your own words trap you. You claimed there was no racism in Dahlonega now youre having to back track. Next time choose your words more carefully. As to the other comments youve made, again you call people liars about situations you know nothing about. So again I ask you, what is your basis for calling any of us liars when you cant possibly know, or want to know the truth? Oh still waiting for you to announce my real name to the message board. Or was that more of your bullshit and now youre trying to avoid backing it up?
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Ok, First off I was a student at Hidden Lake for 14 months about two years ago. I am 19 now and a VCU theatre student in on a scholarship. I am not the kind of person who would exaggerate a story, or not tell it exactly like it happened. I can tell you this. I remember those busses, and how their seats were facing each other so that the staff could always have one eye on all the kids (especially if there were members of both sexes on the bus). I remember some people actually fighting over who would sit in the seat near the front to look out the window so they would not get carsick. Everyone else just had to stomach it. I was on varsity tennis, the only tennis really, and a kid got sick on the bus and barfed out the window from carsickness of riding sideways at 45+ mph. When he puked out the front side window, the vomit flew back into the bus through the rear open window and landed on an unsuspecting girl. She puked.
My point is that yes, they had busses, but they were only used once in a blue moon for things like trips. The elite group you are referring to is called STARS. I was not a stars member because I left the program before I was elligible. In order to be in the stars program you have to kiss a lot of ass. That simple. There are like 9 kids max out of 300 that can be in stars at one time. I think the most exciting trip they went on was to six flags and when they came back they were all really depressed because they were all paired with a staff and dragged around like excess baggage. So yes, they have busses. but no, they dont do community service like taking care of the elderly. Community service means ripping Kudzu out of the parking lot and carving stairs into the side of a mountain when you were unfortunate enough to be placed on restrictions.
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Well,
On some days Teachers and/or counselors had to sit at lower left, lake front, or the GYM.
1. Lower Left is the area near the Socorer Field where they send students and staff for about 4 hours at the time. There is nothing down there but a field and a bathroom. You are supposed to suppervised the students to make sure they are not acting out sexually or physiclly. Some times you may have activities and some times you may not. this occured on Teachers work days, summer days, spring break, and counselor in service days.
2. Lake Front is the area by the Hidden Lake. It a little more to do down there. The students go fishing, look at the woods, some may play tennis, some may again sit there and talk and look at the woods. You will sit down here for about 4 hours at the times Some times there is set activities, and some times there isn't. Some times at lake front you may be allowed to go in the SAC.
3 The GYM is the best of the three to go on days like this. You have the opportunity to look at the walls, play basketball, cards, volleyball, or lift weights. Most students would prefer to go to the GYM versus Lower Left and some time Lake front.
On days like this the school can set up more off campus activities such as: bowling, movies, museums, parks, ect. They always say we do not have any money. And thats BS. They charge approx. 5,400/ per month to attend plus, 99 dollars to get a ride to the doctor or airport, plus money for every group therapy session. So they have the funds. What don't you agree with.
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I'm not disgruntled or I was not fired!!!!!
I was responding to another message when someone talked about homosexuals being discriminated against at HLA. That did not happen. what happen was some male students who were uncomfortable about being around Homosexuals acted out towards them, but I never witnessed staff taking either side. They tried to talk about in groups but what do you expect from 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 year old males.
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If this is in response to me, Macaroni, I never ever said you were fired or disgruntled...I have said that about some other posters though. And probably Robert or Dysfunction said that I said that, but I DID NOT. YOu can go back and reread every post if you like but I never said YOU in particular were fired or disgruntled. I dont know your particular situation. Dysfunction's and Robert's I do, however. Sorry if that was the impression you were given.
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Sorry that was me posting above..i forgot to log in.
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Mrs. Grey you know my situation? You give yourself far to much credit. You know absolutly nothing other than the things Ive been geneorous enough to share with you. But if you think you know things about me by all means share them, for once back up your own statements. Im still waiting for you to announce my name to the message board, along with call up those agencies I refered you to, and to post your pictures.
Honestly Mrs. Grey if you arent going to make good on your threats why make them at all. Looking forward to you evading these questions and laughing at you as you cant respond to any of it.
I wonder Mrs. Grey do you seek out topics on which you know nothing, to respond to above all others? It looks that way.
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Robert I know who you are, and what state you live in, and when you went to HLA. I CHOOSE not to post on here to protect your identity. I thought it the proper thing to do. I do have that info however. I also know who Dysfunction is. Whether or not I chose to divulge that info here is MY choice. NOT yours. Whether or not or WHEN I choose to post pictures or website addresses or info will be up to ME when I find the pictures in storage or when I have time to research. I choose to post to what I want, when I want, whether you like it or not. Whatever image you have of me I really couldnt give a rat's ass. I posted about MY experiences, MY opinion, not YOURS. IF you dont agree with my view, so what. YOu have your view, I have mine. But I see you cant GROW UP and call me by SHH like I requested. YOu really arent entitled to my responding to you but I figure Id be generous and respond anyway. But I do know who you are.
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I was directed that to everyone. I just clicked on reply to a posted message on the board. Did you used to work at HLA or were you a student. What peer group did you graduate or start with.
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If this is directed to me, I was an employee for only a year, 1997-1998. I was a teacher's asst and compiled the grades at progress report time and end of semester and typed, printed, and copied and mailed progress reports/report cards to the parents/grandparents/educational consultants/probation officers. But my other HLA experience is from the beginning before it opened (1994) til spring 2001. I was married to the director of operations and we lived on campus (I lived on campus for 4 years).
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Why are you so aggressive Suzanne? I did not direct that to any particular person. I'm not here to bash you or HLA. Just to say the truth of my experience and what I saw or heard.
thank you
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Well if I gave the impression to be agressive on my post(s) to you directly I am sorry...I dont have any issue with you personally. I have posted angrily to be honest to others though..especially the ones who call me names when they dont even know me or ever met me. One even went so far as to suggest I commit suicide because they dont like my post!! LMAO but I dont think I have been aggressive to any of your posts in particular...Robert and Dysfunction rub me the wrong way tho with their insults so to them I do post angrily at times.
I answered the previous post you typed above because I got the impression that you were asking me if I was a student or former employee.
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No offense, but you guys are certainly not acting any more mature than the kids at Hidden Lake. THe whining and bitching has got to stop guys. I used to read these posts to gain information on what is going on with the whole HLA deal. Now it seems to just be a bashing room for whatever reason. Personally I would like things to go back to whats important and steer away from the bullshit. It almost sounds like some of yall are fighting like a brother and sister over who smacked who and why they should be punished.That is just not Legit. On the topic of something as serious as a place like Hidden Lake being allowed to stay open, there should be a bit more intelligence shown in here.
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regarding the post at 4/19/05 at 5:26; couldn't be more true. i sought out this forum for accurate, not perceived, information on HLA, as i have a step-daughter in attendance. the only impression i can gleen from the posts is the following:
the posters are harboring anger, resentmentment, and blame towards others to whom they ascribe responsibility, while not accepting it themselves. This is not a forum where anyone can obtain factual info on HLA, but rather bitter devisive accusations, similar to the misrepresentations of the democrats and republicans during campaigns. There may be some TRUTH, somewhere, in all of your posts. And sadly, the true reality will NEVER be listed on this site.
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Mrs. Grey again you dodge and evade, you threatened to do something and now you claim you"ll do it later? Give it up Mrs. Grey youre only being laughed at. But I'll tell you what, since again you claim to know a great deal about me, do me a favor post my initials. If you can do that you Ill be surprised, if not youll only reinforce the fact that you only speak about things so long as you pulled them directly out of your ass.
As far as your other comments go, again you play the victim. You come on here attacking others, calling people liars, and then moan and bitch when the same things are thrown at you. The only real difference being in that we actually tell the truth while you are beyond full of it in your descriptions of HLA.
As to the previous post, any information youre seeking on HLA, Id be happy to share with you in an objective manner, the good and the bad. I just bash Mrs. Grey because she lies about the place to people seeking info about HLA to people like you.
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Robert I really dont care that you dont like my posts...or that you dont agree with me. I dont even care if you dont believe me or call me a liar. But I dont come on here "bashing and calling others names"...then then whine when you do it..I do state that I believe some statements on here are over exxagerations and things taken out of context. what I dont appreciate is when I type about things I do know or experienced personally..and YOU call me a liar...and then on top of that...call me names like ignorant slut, child abuser, skank ho, stupid bitch...etc...how mature is that? Im almost old enough to be your mother. To argue about who's truth is more valid is one thing....to call someone names like that is quite a different matter...your buddy Dysfunction even went so far as to suggest I commit suicide because he doesnt like what I type!!!! LMAO yea whatever. I NEVER did that to you or to him or to Deborah. NEVER. So we disagree as to who's HLA experience is more valid...that should be the end of it....but you and 1 or two others choose to act like 12 yr olds. I am almost 40 yrs old. I dont have time for name calling. To the previous poster: you are right..this board SHOULD be a serious discussion about HLA and how it could improve and what actually happened or what was rumor etc. Hopefully the name calling and immature crap will stop. And maybe just maybe Robert will grow up and stop calling me by someone else's name just for spite. :roll: Remember Robert..my user name is SHH, NOT Mrs. Gray.
P.S. Robert I was asked not to post your initials. I know them, and I know Dysfunction's. But was asked not to post them at this time.
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Anon step-parent,
If the heat hasn't run you out of the kitchen... Welcome, how long you been lurking?
Sorry you didn?t find what you were looking for, but there is a significant amount of accurate and factual information here if one chooses to look. Passions can run high, and often do, on both sides of the issue.
I wanted to give you some feedback, fwiw. Your 'impression' of the posts(ers) here sounds more like a psych evaluation. Almost verbatim what the program tells the kids.
You say, "Sadly, the true reality will NEVER be listed on this site."
My goodness, if you really are who you say you are, and if you already know the truth well enough to make such a statement... why are you here? You seem to contradict yourself. Talk about misrepresentations. I have to wonder if you might actually be a PR person. Your comments just don?t read like a curious step-dad, but then I?ve been wrong before.
And just for the record, in case you think you are fooling anyone, your post was no more intelligent or reasonable or void of emotion than anyone else?s. Your crap is just covert, ?hidden? behind a thin veil of arrogant superiority. So.... so..... program of you.
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I have been keeping up with the sites regarding
HLA and so have other parents. We are all
concerned and trying to discern which is real
and which is not. We are trying to locate Marla
who worked at HLA in Feb. Do you know her?
Thanx.
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HLA won't give you her contact info?
I'm sure they have it.
If you have a decent relationship with your child, s/he will tell you what is true and what is not. It's up to you to determine if you believe him/her.
If you have a poor relationship with your child, it is likely that you will never hear anything but the program line.
That is part of the conditioning, ur, 'therapy'.
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I sometime wish the list were moderated, to screen out some of the emotion. Only because I think it could offend some parents who are looking for information.
But, if a person is genuinely seeking information, they will scroll past the personal arguments and find what they're looking for.
You should know that the average person who feels they were violated, is justified in their anger. It will frequently get misdirected toward anyone who vaguely resembles, supports, or defends the 'perpetrator'. In many ways, that can be therapeutice, cathartic. Nothing is worse than being victimized (real or perceived, btw) and having to be silent about it.
Attempts to humiliation and ridicule are not going to heal the heart of the one who feels victimized. That's like telling someone with a fracture leg to stop whining and get up and walk. Or a rape victim to get over it. That, come to think of it, is pretty much what happens in the program, based on my experience.
You obviously do not understand the depth of hurt and anger some of these people feel. To have someone suggest that your are lying about your experience, is tantamount to being victimized all over again.
And, there is the possibility that message boards may not be the venue for you. This is typical of any unmoderated board, and pretty typical of the human comdition.
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We can't ask for her forwarding address, our
children are still there...We are worried about restrictions, academics, a system that probably started with good intentions but has gotten out of control..If we ask questions, we get no answers and do not believe what they say..They
are so secretive and the children that are not there for behavioral problems are frightened. If you want to pull your child, it is almost like you feel it is going to be by some covert
act. It is frightening..Marla was a special ed teacher and has posted on 02-07-05 and then she seems to be gone. Our children knew her and said that she was a caring, nurturing teacher.
We just want to make sure we are making the best decision for our children. What they seem to be
to us, is not who they are and it is becoming apparent after each workshop. Almost chilling.
One thing parents should ask themselves, if there is no where to run in those mountains, no where to go- what are the children running from?
That is scarey..[ This Message was edited by: juniper on 2005-04-19 22:45 ]
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Also, we didn't even know she left...We are not told if any of their teachers left..Parents of children with Special Needs in Educ. were not informed. The school said they should have a teacher by June or Sept. depending on who they talked to. The Assistant Headmaster didn't even know if they had a Chemistry lab when asked. Mostly, no one knows anything, but the children.
And, they are scared to death to talk. Then you have some military wanna-be doing restrictions
and the girls have complained he is a pervert. I believe the children, 'cause one story okay, but all the same told separate and since 1997
the same scenarios..Aren't strip searches illegal?
I did not authorize that in my signings nor can I find it in the handbook...Thanx.[ This Message was edited by: juniper on 2005-04-19 22:59 ][ This Message was edited by: juniper on 2005-04-19 22:59 ]
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On 2005-04-19 22:43:00, juniper wrote:
"We can't ask for her forwarding address, our
children are still there...We are worried about restrictions, academics, a system that probably started with good intentions but has gotten out of control..If we ask questions, we get no answers and do not believe what they say..They
are so secretive and the children that are not there for behavioral problems are frightened. If you want to pull your child, it is almost like you feel it is going to be by some covert
act. It is frightening..Marla was a special ed teacher and has posted on 02-07-05 and then she seems to be gone. Our children knew her and said that she was a caring, nurturing teacher.
We just want to make sure we are making the best decision for our children. What they seem to be
to us, is not who they are and it is becoming apparent after each workshop. Almost chilling.
One thing parents should ask themselves, if there is no where to run in those mountains, no where to go- what are the children running from?
That is scarey..[ This Message was edited by: juniper on 2005-04-19 22:45 ]"
So pull your kid. Do you remember ignoring your gut feelings before, when your kid was getting into trouble? Maybe things got worse because you didn't trust your gut?
You are right: there is something terribly wrong about this program.
Whay can't you get a straight answer? Why do they make you feel as if you no longer have legal custody over your own kid? Why the secrecy? These are legitimate questions deserving of LEGITIMATE answers.
Go back and read this thread. This has happened to others. I've SEEN IT WITH MY OWN TWO EYES what lengths these people will go to to extract every last dime from your family. Trust me, when the money runs out, you'll get your kid home so fast it'll make your head spin.
BTW, don't listen to what SHH has to say about HLA. She's drinking the Kool-Aid thru a Crazy Straw...
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Yes, I know Marla. I do not know her personally. I know that she was a teacher at HLA and left about a month before I did. Some of the things she said in her post was true but exagerrated. If you have any questions about the program, I'm willing to answer any questions. I'm going to give you the straight up answer of what I know and saw. my email address is Macaroni3001@yahoo.com. I was a counselor for two peer groups and basketball coach.
Antonio Wade
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Thank you for responding..Can you tell me about HLA on this forum..? I am just so leary about
trusting who is on the other end, whether it is
Hla and their dogma..Thanks[ This Message was edited by: juniper on 2005-04-20 08:56 ]
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Hi and thank you for your input. How are you
acquainted with HLA? Is there anything you can tell us thst you do know?[ This Message was edited by: juniper on 2005-04-20 09:02 ]
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I found nothing about strip searches in the manual either.
A letter sent to parents in July 01 stated that students would no longer be allowed to leave or return with luggage. Only the clothes on their backs. Parents would have to purchase clothes for the break if needed.
Quote: "Currently, staff members are required to search a student's luggage and belongings upon return to campus to ensure that items, which jeopardize the safety and security of campus, are located. Students are required to wait until a thorough search of their belongings has been completed. [but then states the opposite] Students will now no longer have to wait for their belongings, as all they require will be in their dorm rooms upon return."
Another letter was sent to correct the obvious errors in the original.
Nothing, directly anyway, about searching their body.
I don't know if body searches are 'legal' or not, or to what extent they are conducted, or can be conducted.
Re: specifics about how restrictions are handled currently, you'd have to ask one of the recent graduates. I have shared my experience, which was three years ago. I was told that 'military' guys do run restrictions.
You might try posing your questions to the owner, and expressing your concern that it's difficult to get answers from staff. I mean, an inquiry re: a chemistry lab is not a difficult questions. Why wouldn't it be answered? Unless they don't have one and sensed that that might be important to you.
The authority on what's happening on a day-to-day basis are the participants. If you don't trust your child, and you don't trust the program, I can imagine that's quiet the quandary.
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Hi and thanks. The problem is that we cannot make any waves until we pull our children. They will find a way to make our lives miserable.
One cannot get any answers, and no one is getting their phone calls returned by even Cates.
If one asks a question, no one knows the answer.
It's just awful. There is no chem. lab. The point is, the Assistant Headmaster should have
known that. Strip searches..I need to find out if they are legal..I know that forcing young
ladies to drop their pants to urinate in a goose feces covered field is not right and and there is nothing in the regulations that covers this.
Also, it is already an environmental health risk
and the children are forced to do push ups in the field. It is highly bacterial and can cause
respitory infections and respitory failure if
the bacterial level is too high. I cannot call
the board of health until our children are
safely home. These happenings date back to 1997.
Is this school connected, poltically and every other way?
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On 2005-04-20 09:14:00, juniper wrote:
"Hi and thanks. The problem is that we cannot make any waves until we pull our children. They will find a way to make our lives miserable.
One cannot get any answers, and no one is getting their phone calls returned by even Cates.
If one asks a question, no one knows the answer.
It's just awful. There is no chem. lab. The point is, the Assistant Headmaster should have
known that. Strip searches..I need to find out if they are legal..I know that forcing young
ladies to drop their pants to urinate in a goose feces covered field is not right and and there is nothing in the regulations that covers this.
Also, it is already an environmental health risk
and the children are forced to do push ups in the field. It is highly bacterial and can cause
respitory infections and respitory failure if
the bacterial level is too high. I cannot call
the board of health until our children are
safely home. These happenings date back to 1997.
Is this school connected, poltically and every other way?"
Just show up, unannounced, and take custody of your child (or children). There is NOTHING anybody can do to prevent a parent who has legal custody from taking their children with them.
Other "programs" have tried this and were "tuned-up" by lawsuits with damages awarded in the millions of dollars. Not releasing YOUR child into YOUR custody is a criminal offense: "unlawful imprisonment." They will not risk a confrontation with police and parents in an uncontrolled environment.
Now, they may bluster and talk about not refunding your tuition, etc. Again, however, they cannot hold your cash any more than they can hold your kid. They've been taken to task about this before, made empty threats, and eventually, as required by law, relented and refunded.
Leaving your kid there gives them a bargaining chip and a manipulation tool.
Buck up, get some nerve and GO GET YOUR KID.
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If I am not mistaken, a previous post by Juniper states they are a step-parent. I don't think they can legally go in there and "take" the children. But maybe the custodial biological parent could.
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Juniper,
Just a point of clarification.
Are you saying that you have more than one child there? And that you had other children there in the past? I'm refering to your comment that this has been 'going on since 1997'.
Or are you an Ed Con?[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-04-20 10:31 ]
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SHH,
you said: If this is in response to me, Macaroni, I never ever said you were fired or disgruntled...I have said that about some other posters though.
I know you have said this. I would appreciate it if you'd list the posters here that are ex staff who were fired. And what does disgruntled mean? They had a difference of opinion? They disagreed with the program's policies and procedures? Exactly what does that mean.
And who are you claiming was disgruntled?
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Whoever has LEGAL custody of the child can remove them from the program. If it's a step-parent with custody rights, then, yes, they can do it.
Don't know Juniper's status, but under the username "Juniper" I didn't see "step-parent" anywhere...
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Deborah, you should know as much as anyone that with all of the privacy laws there is no way that HLA would be able to give out the information of any current or prior employee. sure they probably have it, how else would they get her tax forms and a last pay check. but they will NEVER give it out and by law they cannot even if they wanted to.
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as passions run very high on both ends of the spectrum regarding HLA, it is going to be very hard to get any type of unbiased opinion (on either side)...there are folks that were there years ago and some that were there recently and both differ on lots of items...since there have obviously been a lot of changes throughout the years.
like deborah (i think) said, you really need to trust your gut since you cant completely trust your child and you cant completely trust HLA... good luck, i wish you well.
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Yes, and HLA would be violating no laws or ethics by forwarding the parent's contact info to Marla. The parent would have to request such and HLA would have to be willing. Both are unlikely in this controversial issue, but nothing unethical about it otherwise.
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If I was a teacher or staff I would not want my personal info given out to anyone without my permission beforehand. If HLA gives out Marla's info to the parents, they could be sued.
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Hey, again thanks for the in-put. No it is not a custody issue. I meant to be speaking of other families that have children there. The parents are troubled, and like me , in some areas, can't quite put their finger on what is wrong. It is coming together as I read through
everyones offerings. We have a child there and have made contact with other families. Deborah, reference to 1997 was from issues people wrote about happened there and are still happening.
Our children could not have known about them, yet
they have told us the same stuff and the school just says it is manipulation. 8yrs apart. I
beleive our children.
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What is an Ed Con?Never mind, just got it.[ This Message was edited by: juniper on 2005-04-20 17:12 ]
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I am a parent. Thanx.
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Mrs. Grey again you cry and moan but your hypocricy shines through. You have called me and others a liar on several occasions. Why now bitch when others myself espically do the same thing back to you? Perhaps youve forgotten the many many times youve called me alone a liar. I suppose it wouldnt surprise me considering all the other many other things youve conviently forgotten. Let me know and ill gladly post a few examples for you.
Also lets talk about this you being asked not to post my initials? By whom Mrs. Grey. After all you made it very clear some time ago that you were not in contact with Ol Marty, Bucci or any of the gang. So tell me, who exactly told you not to mention my initials? Give it up Mrs. Grey, you know nothing and even if you did you have nothing. Remember Mrs. Grey all of my statements can be backed up, not quite the same with yours now is it? By all means Mrs. Grey tell your friends whom you swear you arent in contact with to roll the dice and see what is brought down on them. But still lets see if you can offer simply my first initial. Come on Mrs. Grey back up something just once, show me if you are even capable of such an act. My first initial Mrs. Grey, you can do that cant you youve got a 1 out of 26 chance of guessing it right. Tell us Mrs. Grey what are Bucci and Marty afraid of if all Im doing is making things up?
To Juniper and the other parent who asked. Yes strip searches did at least at one point go on. And no at last check HLA has not been licensed as they should be. It is without a question an abusive facility Id be happy to answer any questions of yours as best I can.
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Robert,
How do you know so much about HLA?
The children are still strip searched, is it legal? Do you have any suggestions at to who I
wouldcontact to find out? Even if we choose to leave HLA, there are still other children left
behind... They are just all so secretive...
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Robert why dont you talk to Juniper instead of ONCE AGAIN getting on my case over a post way up there in the thread? Couldnt resist could you? LOL Anyway, for your information, it wasnt anybody at HLA who asked me not to post your initials. It was my husband, who thought I would be stooping to your level by doing it. Since you so kindly keep on calling me by a name I no longer use even after I asked you not to about 14 times. I havent talked to Dr. B since 2001. I havent talked to Marty since 2001. I do talk to my ex since we have a child together. And I post on here of my own accord, I am no stooge of anybody, I found this place out by accident. Whether or not they read or post here is their business. So no I wont post your initials because he thought it would be tacky. Kinda like you posting my last name repeatedly.(even though its not my name now)
Juniper, Robert is an ex student, but I cant remember the specifics of when he was there, its been awhile though, youd have to ask him when he was. My affiliation with the school was from 1994 prior to opening, til 2001. I lived on campus from 1997-2001, and also was an employee for about a year or so as a teacher's clerical asst. I was married to one of its employees for that 7 yr time period mentioned. My mother and father in law also lived on campus from 1995-2001. Robert considers everything I type to be lies and also considers me to be an idiot and some other choice words. I consider alot, maybe not all, but alot of what Robert types to be over exxagerations and partial truths. Obviously we dont see eye to eye. That being said, hopefully all will go ok with your particular child and they will be fine. As far as goose feces covered fields. It is true that Canadian geese when in migration happen to favor Hidden Lake as a stop off point for weeks maybe months at a time. Ive fed them many times myself with my children (I had 3 small ones at that time) I personally never saw any students doing pushups in the field where the geese were or having to use the bathroom in an open field either. They do have bathroom facilities near most of the fields, so not sure what happened to make the children go in a field??? Id have to question that one. But anyway, I am just telling you what I observed while I was there. I dont know about right now. I certainly understand parental concern when youre not there to see for yourself. Hopefully the bickering on this board will subside soon.
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All activities are done on that field, including restrictions; and, yes , unfortunately it was
confirmed by staff that children are not permitted to use the bathroom..it is called'hit
the wood line'. I, along with other families are appauled. The Canadian Geese are a dangerous health risk to humans, especially young children
without fully developed lungs. Look it up on
line. The Health Departments have shut down contaminated ball fields because of this and they weren't anything like this. You were very fortunate with your young children, as their feces are highly bacterial. We have known that for years. It is disgusting. During workshop,
a family had a young puppy and went to the field
and scooped the puppy right up. It wasn't fit
for their dog and they brought their little
baggies with them.
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I used to work at HLA and my time there was mixed. I loved working with the students but I did not agree with some of the things I was required to do. Is there anything particular that you want to know? I can tell you that most students who attend the school do not like it but if I was there age I would not like it either. I have seen the program work for some students and not for others. Alot of families I worked with was pleased with the progress of their child. The program is very strict, becuase it is set up to help change the behaviors that has been detrimental to the students and families. The school is like any other place. There are some things that needs to be reworked and added and there are some things that work extremely well. But if you have any specific questions let me know.
Thank You,
Antonio
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(taken from http://www.canadageese.org (http://www.canadageese.org))
Public Health
Those looking to justify the killing of Canada geese turn to the use of scare tactics with remarkable predictability. The strategy involves creating the illusion that Canada geese are a threat to public health. The mere assertion that a "health issue" exists has been an effective way to generate fear about the presence of Canada geese and an artificial urgency about what must be done. Interestingly, among the most outspoken on this issue are individuals who are unqualified to make health risk assessments. Park managers, rangers, hunters, outdoor columnists, wildlife managers, mayors, etc., are suspiciously too willing to offer their epidemiological assessments despite their lack of credentials. The origin of their information can usually be traced to something they were told by one of the other unqualified parties. While less common, there are cases where allegedly qualified individuals (i.e., health commissioners) render false information under political pressure from anti-goose forces.
In most cases, the health scare does not involve the geese per se, but rather, their droppings. The basis of the argument is that Canada geese must be killed because goose droppings contain human pathogens (disease-causing bacteria). As has been pointed out in the literature by Weiner, et al. (Applied and Environmental Microbiology, Aug. 1979, p. 258), and at a public presentation in Rockland County, New York (Sept. 22, 1993), by Dr. Milton Friend, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Waterfowl Infectious Disease Specialist, Canada geese are not carriers of microorganisms (pathogens) that significantly threaten public health.
In fact, in New York, the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) attempted to strengthen their campaign against geese by testing goose droppings for human pathogens. (It is interesting to note that these tests were carried out after they had already claimed that geese were a " threat." The outcome of their study was never publicized because they were unable to prove their point. They managed to confirm what was already known: Canada geese do not pose a health threat even remotely serious enough to justify their mass destruction. The Coalition has contacted the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and various state health departments on this matter and these sources have indicated that no human illnesses have been linked to the presence of Canada geese in the suburban setting. Yet, as indicated in a 1991 report from the Town of Greenwich, Conn., none of this is news:
"Examination of goose droppings showed only expected bacteria in normal concentrations (Carolyn Baisley, Director of Environmental Health and Laboratory for the Town of Greenwich, pers. comm.). To date, state pathologists know of no cases where human illness can be ascribed to goose droppings (fide The Northeastern Research Center for Wildlife Diseases, Pathology Department, University of Connecticut). Indeed, only a few diseases can be transmitted to humans from birds. Thus, it appears that the primary concern is the unsightly and unpleasant concentrations of droppings rather than a health risk."
-Management of the Canada Goose in the Town of Greenwich, Conservation Commission position paper, page 4, Greenwich, CT, February, 7, 1991.
After making the health issue the central theme of an anti-goose campaign, and after the slaughter of 251 Canada geese (including several goslings) in Clarkstown, NY, came the admission that the health scare was unfounded (NY Times, 9/9/96 article, "Goose Round-up Flopped, But Mayor is Undaunted").
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I know where you are coming from. I went to HLA and my post you referred to comes from someone with experience. I hated the program. It did nothing for me at all, but I am not going to go around arguing moot points and dealing with people who just aren't capable of telling it how it is.
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Ok, just to clear something up. I went to HLA and was a "student" there for over 20 months and I know how much of a hell hole that place is. However, I come here to find out what is going on right now at the school and if the crap that I had to deal with is still present. I left in 2002 and am still permanately scarred from the experience. I was just looking for some people that might have some advice for me on how to find ex students and faculty so we could share stories and maybe even DO something about the horrible things that go down in that valley behind Mt. Furgi
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I just have to say something to that. Upon first arriving at HLA, I was asked to step into the bathroom with two women I didnt know and strip completely naked in front of them. I didn't do it. No way was I going to do something like that. I am a 5'9'' 130 lbs female with a bit of a top heavy problem and there was no way I was going to strip down in front of these people. I refused, and when I did so the one with the curly red hair (ugliest woman I'd ever seen) got on her walkie talkie and radioed Lee the dean that I was refusing and that she needed him. I began to walk towards the door and when i pushed on it, it didnt budge. Someone on the other side was holding it shut. Now, I am a very strong person and had that been a woman I could have easily pushed that door open. Strip searches are immoral and degrading, and should never be used on children in any case. I swear I will have to deal with that mortifying imprint on the back of my mind every time I see that sort of thing on television.
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My GOD woman, do you have a CLUE? There were push ups and more push ups. And then there were front back goes. And enough PT to make you sick. I should know I got sick from dehydration at least 6 times. There were no bathrooms outside until last year when they built the fieldhouse down on Lower Left. Even now, most of the restrictions counselors make the kids "go use the woodline". I remember one incident where R.H. made the girls pick up the goose crap with their bare hands after it rained becuase they wouldn't quit talking at luchtime. He justified his reasons with "they only eat grass, what could it hurt?"
PS: the strip search story and the one before that was me, i just forgot to log on.
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No one wants to eradicate the geese, just clean up the field....There are ways to keep the geese from the field just like farmers do with their scarecrows.
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Personally, I didn't really mind the geese. They were promise of other life forms. They were pretty. But they did poop an awful lot.
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Where are you, SHH? Shouldn't you be here by now telling these former inmates that they're liars and these things don't happen at HLA?
C'Mon, let's go...
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"I graduated HLA in 2004. Just like everyone else i hated the place and i think that there were a lot of things that went on there that shouldn't have and probably still do. I asked my parents why they sent me there and they said they wanted to put me in a drug free environment where i could get help. well, needless to say, i didn't get help (big surprise), but i also was not in a drug free environment. For the duration of my stay at HLA several other students and myself traded articles of clothing to staff members in exchange for marijauna, cigarettes, and dip. some staff member's gave dip and cigarettes to us free of charge, including the director of athletics at the time. HLA doesn't fix kids, it just teaches them how to lie like the best."
Mercy me. This must have never happened either.
Staff members selling drugs on campus? Nooooo...
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***He justified his reasons with "they only eat grass, what could it hurt?"
Well... horses and cows eat grass too, but there are good reasons we don't handle it with our bare hands. I personally would also be concerned about it being tracked into the buildings.
I feel certain that requiring teens to pick up any poop with their hands is a violation of not only health codes, but state regulations.
If you are inclined, you could report it to the Health Dept:
mapalli@dhr.state.ga.us (http://mailto:mapalli@dhr.state.ga.us)
DFCS might also have an interest in knowing this:
Lumpkin Co. Dept of Family and Children Services
706-864-1980 or 706-864-1651
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HLA appears to be very good at keeping the parents in the dark but we are learning. Right Juniper? It sure seems like the same things are happening now as when you were there, Deborah. There is strength in numbers; we're becoming enlightened; but we gotta get our kids out before we can do anything. My child confirmed the strip searches and a lot of other things posted on this web site.
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Libra...Welcome...Darkness has fallen, let's light up the 'house' a bit!
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Welcome to all you new people- ex staff, parents and participants!!
I've been posting at Fornits for four years with very little activity until a couple of months ago. During that time I learned alot about the industry in general, and a few programs specifically. It is uncanny how they're all more alike than different.
Ginger was so gracious to give us our own forum. HLA threads seemed to get lost in all the activity on the Teen Help Industry forum.
So glad you all found your way here!!
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I just left HLA and they do have a bathroom at Lower left and at the lake front where the students may be that may be furthest away from a bathroom. Student do have to be searched when they come in and believe me that I hate it just as much as they do. I also work at another place working with adolescents with the same problems and we do the same kind of searches when they leave the campus and return.
I have seen those geese on HLA campus for the whole 8 months I have been there, and they use the bathroom all over the place. So it might be a good chance that even I did a push up in some of there mess or sat in some of there mess. But I never witness anyone doing pushup in Geese Shit.
HLA do not give out former staff information to parents, students, or anyone.
If anyone have any particular questions I'm willing to answer.
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Is your child a student at HLA now.
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I used to work there. I just left last month.
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Macaroni,
What attracted you to working with 'adolescents with these problems'?
Which problems are you refering to?
What do you personally feel you have to offer them?
What is your opinion on why HLA doesn't tell parents they will be strip searching their kid?
How are the searches conducted? Why wouldn't it be mentioned in the parent manual, right there with the procedure for searching belongings?
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On 2005-04-21 18:51:00, Libra wrote:
"HLA appears to be very good at keeping the parents in the dark but we are learning. Right Juniper? It sure seems like the same things are happening now as when you were there, Deborah. There is strength in numbers; we're becoming enlightened; but we gotta get our kids out before we can do anything. My child confirmed the strip searches and a lot of other things posted on this web site. "
Again, I don't understand this "powerless" trip. You're not SHEEP. You're PARENTS with LEGAL CUSTODY of your kids. GO GET THEM.
As I have stated before, nobody at HLA can stop you from taking your kid from their "possession." Show up unannounced and tell them you are there to take your kid home.
Be prepared for bluster. They will try to "bluff" you into thinking THEY are in control, not YOU. This couldn't be further from the truth.
Tell them you are taking your kid NOW. If need be, call the local sheriff's department. I GUARANTEE that nobody there will risk a messy confrontation in front of the cops.
The law is clearly on your side. Now GROW A BACKBONE and go take care of your mess.
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I started working with adolescents when I was in college in as my internship. I liked the job at the group home. So I pursued my Master's degree in Social Work because I knew I would be able to work with adolescents or just help people in alot of capacities.
What I offer is a person who understands what they go through, I'm going to be real with them, I will respect them, I will be honest with them, I will show them tough love, I do not look down on them, and I do not disrespect there individualities.
Let me clarify myself. What I meant by problems is the reasons they were sent to any out of home placement. For example, drugs and alcohol abuse, violence, abuse, truancy, ect.
Really I do not know why they did not let the parents know. In the months I was there I was under the impression that parents knew and understood why they did searches. I did not like just as much as the students did not like it. I have worked in this field for about 5 years now, and almost every facility I worked in did searches of some kind. It all depends on the level of care and the adolescent. And the searches ranged from just checking pockets, shoes, and bags to full body searches except there private areas.
The searches were conducted when a student returned to campus from visits, overnight trips, and other circumstances. I'm not getting into the specifics at this time. I would say that I never saw any students private areas. We basicly searched each article of clothing, under their feet, backs, and arm pitts. The searchs were always done by two staff and with the same sex. For example if it was a male student it would be two male staffs, and not the counselor of the student if possible. I do not know why it would not be mentioned to the parents. That was not my job to inform the parents of all policy and procedure when they brouhght their students to the school initially. If any of the parents I worked with had a question I would answer or get the answer for them. I'm sure parents knew about searches because the students had to tell them about them. They tell them about everything else.
Deborah,
1. Whats your background?
2. Why are you so into HLA?
3. In what capacity is this going to help you or your current situation?
3. What is your opinion on why HLA doesn't tell parents they will be doing searches on the students.
4. If you have any more questions, HOLLA!!!
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We are "going to get our children" and you're simplifying the predicament. Taking them out of HLA without a plan is not an option. In fact, it would be a worse mistake than HLA was. We want our kids to graduate from high school, stay off drugs and alcohol, refrain from abusive relationships, get the medical help they need, etc. Those problems still exist with our kids and our kids still need help. If you have any suggestions for alternative boarding schools or other programs I would love to hear them.
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Libra I wouldnt consider a high school diploma a reason for keeping your child at HLA, the education there is substandard at best you can view a post written by a former teacher from there which goes into specific detail. Im sure Deborah can post you the link. You should for your own childs benefit get them out NOW. Get them out and allow them to pick a LICENSED therapist whom he or she can trust. I assure you your child will have major trust issues for years to come as a result of their experience at HLA. What he or she is dealing with right now, is being degraded every single day, being forced to admitt crimes and sins to people who are often masicistic. I hope your child has a drug problem, because if they dont they are still forced to attend drug rehab. If he or she is punished for any reasons the punishment will border on abuse and will of course go on indefinitly. Espically when your child is innocent of any crime and refuses to cop to the guilt. As far as Mrs. Grey goes, she chooses to forget many of the more unpleasant aspects of HLA, simply because shes aware the food that was put on her table for seven years came as a result of organized child abuse. Oh and as another neat little token, HLA systematically lies to the state about its true purpose. They tell parents they are a TBS yet tell the state they are not, the reasons of course being if they were listed as a TBS they would be subject to review and would have to completly overhaul their disciplinary procedures. Again Deborah should be able to post the link for you. Any specific questions you have Ill be happy to answer for you.
Mrs. Grey, one more time you fail to back up your own statements, you claimed you "knew my situation" yet you for some magical reason cannot offer up a single specific detail about me. Why is this/
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didn't macaroni mention what the licenses are? was he correct, just wondering...or if those were just accreditations?
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if you show up to take your kid, no one will stop you, sure they will give you the benefits of them staying blah blah blah, it is their job, but if you are genuine about taking your child out there is nothing to stop you and no one who will stop you. you may lose some money (deposit or the like) but that shouldn't matter as long as you get your kid. just remember the reasons you chose to place them there most likely have not gone away and perhaps find somewhere else for them prior to taking them out (sorta like not quitting one job before having another) cause the problems will probably still be there and they will probably be really angry at you, too.
just a thought!
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On 2005-04-22 16:17:00, Libra wrote:
"We are "going to get our children" and you're simplifying the predicament. Taking them out of HLA without a plan is not an option. In fact, it would be a worse mistake than HLA was. We want our kids to graduate from high school, stay off drugs and alcohol, refrain from abusive relationships, get the medical help they need, etc. Those problems still exist with our kids and our kids still need help. If you have any suggestions for alternative boarding schools or other programs I would love to hear them."
Here is a suggestion for you. Why don't you keep your child at home, be the best parent you can be, love them unconditionally, teach them good values, kindness, etc and let them grow up. In most all cases, you will be pretty happy and proud of your children. I know this to be true...statistacally, most people grow out of bad behavior. That is why our prisons (not jails) are full of mostly very young and very old people. That is why most people that use drugs as children aren't all dead, insane or in jail. People grow up.
I am a 44 year old man and have a 24 year old son. My son was a very difficult child to say the least; But, I did not put him away to a school or program. These places are not helpful in the long run, or often the short run either. I know this because I spent 15 months in a program as a child. Cure was far worse than the disease. My disease was rebellious youth, the "cure" broke me for many years.
I adopted my son when he was 9. Head strong, and wonderful child. He was a challenge. He tried my patience, arrests, et al. But we did not put him away. He is all grown up now. Great son, good friend. Be a parent, keep your child at home.
I'd write more, but I gotta get to work. Good luck.
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::bump::
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***I'm sure parents knew about searches because the students had to tell them about them. They tell them about everything else.
Well, we've got three parents posting here now that didn't know about them. Are we unique? My son never 'had to tell me about them'. He was also 'coached' on what was acceptable to tell before his call was made. In other words, what was acceptable to divulge about any incident.
Deborah,
1. Whats your background?
Are you asking about my personal or professional background? Most of that can be found in this forum.
2. Why are you so into HLA?
Not sure how to interpret that question, 'so into'?
3. In what capacity is this going to help you or your current situation?
I will assume that 'this' refers to me sharing my experience, opinions, and questions. Do I really need to answer that? Seems it would be obvious to any caring and rational person.
How does posting your experience and opinions help you? What's your vested interest?
If people hadn't talked (educated themselves and others) we might still witness blatantly overt acts of racism, rather than the occasional covert acts.
3. What is your opinion on why HLA doesn't tell parents they will be doing searches on the students.
I personally believe, based on the extensive research I have done on this industry, that programs give parents the least amount of information they can get by with. Things occur in programs that are not detailed in the manual or otherwise conveyed to parents. I personally consider this to be deceptive. Parents are buying a service, that comes with a hefty price tag. Seems reasonable that they would expect to know what they are buying.
And some, wouldn't have the skill to evaluate the methods and procedure if they knew every detail. I think this might be about half of the parents, the half that leave their child until graduation.
My ex didn't/stil doesn't know squat about BM. If he even read the parent manual, he would certainly have concluded that the methods were reasonable. He never consulted with an objective professional outside of HLA re: their methods. I did, and all were appauled, advising me to get my son out asap.
As to why, HLA and others don't mention strip searches... my opinion is that they know that at least some parents will be uncomfortable with this. Why create discomfort unnecessarily? To decrease attrition? To avoid lengthy dialogue necessary to explain the 'necessity'?
Considering that most of the 'contraband' is alleged to be acquired from staff, it seems that the most effective way to decrease the kids' acquisition of such would be to require staff to submit to strip searches every morning before taking their posts.
Yes, I?m being 'somewhat' facetious, as I'm sure staff would not comply with such a degrading and humiliating policy. I'm sure they'd see it as a violation of their rights. Imagine.
For all intents and purposes, these kids are being incarcerated (jailed?) for a psych dx, many (most?) times provided by the very facility that stands to gain monetarily from their placement. That is considered unethical by any rational person and the therapeutic industry in general. Unless of course they were a bonafide psychiatric hospital and a parent had brought their child to be evaluated by a psychiatrist. Ideally, the evaluations would be conducted independently before admission in that situation as well.
And to back track just a bit and elaborate on parents not being told specifics. My son was made to sleep in the woods overnight while at RC. He was given a black trash bag to lay on and a poncho to cover his head. No protection from the elements. No flashlight. No water. No food. And no adult within ear shot. Does that fit the accepted definition of a 'wilderness leadership' experience? Where was 'that' experience outlined in the literature or manual?
I have native heritage, so I value and appreciate what nature has to teach. I also appreciate and value, and have been a support person at 'vision quests' for young people. I can assure you that they do not resemble RC. The teen is prepared psychologically for the experience for weeks in advance, with the greatest of reverance for this passage from childhood to adulthood. Has several supporting adults attending. Is not sent out without water and food, unless s/he prefers to fast (this is choice). Is not force marched to the point of exhaustion/dehydration. And, is checked on ocassionally through the night(s) and can choose to come in if they desire.
The way these fad programs are run, it is highly likely that the kids will make a negative association with nature. After all, they are banned to the wild as 'punishment' with poor preparation. The majority of 'professionals' and staff in this industry haven't a clue how to 'help' kids in a respectful way. It could be done well, the truth is, it's not.
My son was vomiting all night. Screaming for assistance. No one to hear his calls. HLA/RC wouldn't exist today if he had died that night from a rattlesnake bite, appendicitis, or any other tragedy, and of course, if justice were served.
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Are you saying I am a liar? I am sorry, but that pinches a nerve. maybe you just got lucky and never had to do an old school HLA search. Bend over and hop in a circle naked. Hold your breasts and lift em up to see if there is anything there. I'm sorry but that is just worn
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Hi Muffin. The reality is, you come on here, state your personal truthful story, and still will be called every name in the book. Lots of programmed graduates and crazy parents. Ignore the programmies, we are listening to you, and believe you.
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The ones who share their experiences that aren't negative get called names too
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To ALL - Please go to http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org). and register your complaints. They will investigate
the school...Thanks.
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Juniper,
A point of clarification-
Does a parent need to have a child currenlty enrolled?
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I have just contacted them and am waiting to hear from them. I honestly do not know if one
has to be currently involved in a school, I would doubt it. As long as one can stand by their experience, I would think they would want
to add it to their investigation. E-mail them.
They'll let you know. They have already contacted other parents. Thanks for the support!
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I honestly think that you have to understand that you are not a child that was placed there, that has lived a nightmare...or, a parent that desired a 'safe house' for their child. Not all the children are behaviorally severe, so for HLA
to address them all as liars and manipulators is
ridiculous. One conveys their experience: the HLA situation and other schools from a totally
different prospective than you. You worked there.You cannot try to equate what you pathom to
what has happened to others. I feel empathy for all children and families, their heart breaks, frustration. Try and see it from their heart and eyes. Something that may have been formed
with good intentions has gone wrong. It is human
error and power that makes these messes. Everyone is responsible and accountable that
were at these schools and turned a blind eye. Maybe you were lucky and did not see. But, all one needs do, is really look into your childs' eyes and heart, and see, feel their fright. It
is sad and everyone, counselors, Con Eds, family
that thought this was best,made a grave error and
continue to do so. It is in everyones best interest to heed our childs eyes, to listen to our gut...What we thought was our last hope for our children, was a grave mistake for some, and yes, for others, it may have saved their childs'
life. But, there was and is a price. I think we
all learned that you can only trust your family.
There are good people everywhere,but family is home. And, to HLA and other schools like it,
I am sure there are new counselors that want to make a difference, but if they are good, they will leave..regretfully leaving the children behind. It is a difficult situation for all..
But, counselors, when you leave, don't turn a blinds eye..I t will never 'really leave' you.
Remember what you were suppose to be teaching the children, "the truth will set you free...".
and,Shh, try and approach things from a different prospective. It's now, about the children and the children after them. It's not about you or the people on this post that complain, but go no further.If one does not let their voice be heard, they have none. So, blow off the garbage thrown at you and think about what's really important.
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Of course its about the children if they were really abused. I am not saying everybody lies on here. I never said they all were. And I know its not about me. But, I have just as much of a right to voice my experience there as a former resident of the campus of HLA and also former employee that is all I wanted to point out when I said that. But what I am concerned about happening is that some children may not have wanted to be placed there and will say and do anything to "get back" at the school. Same with employees who didnt appreciate being fired, or didnt feel as if they got fair treatment as an employee and quit, that might twist things that happened and exxagerate things. Its that scenario that would hurt innocent employees who do care about the kids there. I personally think that parents need to take responsibility for their children and keep them at home and put them first. However, IF that can't happen, I think some boarding type therapeutic schools have a place. Dr. B started the school as an inbetween type facility that wasnt a traditional boarding school and wasn't a wilderness program. He started Ridge Creek because other wilderness programs they were sending HLA kids to either werent what he wanted for them or werent good places. I was there during many a discussion about his goals for both places. His intentions are good make no mistake. I think that a place can always improve, so suggestions for improving I dont see a problem with. I do see a problem with HLA being portrayed as this horrible rat hole where abuse takes place on a daily basis and kids are beaten, imprisoned, and starving to death. That is simply NOT true. I lived on campus for 4 years. I saw HLA students on a daily basis in various stages, in the dining room, in the gym, during plays, doing restriction chores, playing sports, etc. It is true I was not a counselor. I dont have a perspective on what kind of treatment or counseling they got. But I still observed. And I observed closely because I have children myself and I would have noticed if children seemed malnourished or were crying excessively or seemed afraid. I am not calling every child or former employee liars or manipulators. I have seen exxagerations on here in some cases however. I have made it very clear that my perspective is from 1994-2001. Some on here who post their perspective is from 11 years ago and have no idea what goes on there now. Everybody's experience is different, I understand that. But to generalize the whole place as horrible because students didnt want to be there and a few employees didnt like working there is wrong. Alot of good people ARE associated with the place and have good intentions to really help kids. If you have ideas for improvement that makes sense and I can understand that. To want to shut it down and sue everybody and cause 180 innocent people to lose their jobs in this current economy does not make sense. Youre right Juniper it is about the kids. But look at it from a different perspective. Take what you hear with a grain of salt. And consider that quite possibly what you want to change can change without all the anger and hostility that I see on here.
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Again Mrs. Grey you cry foul when subjected to the same treatment you gave to others. You know its funny, I was able to in my stay at HLA accomplish that very thing, and the staff bitched about it as much as you are now. Some things dont change do they Mrs. Grey? In any event why go on and on about how you are entitled to share your experiences and your opinions of HLA (something weve shown to be invalid as you had to little to no involvement with the students) yet are so willing to call people liars when they employ the same tactics. Get over yourself, youre babbeling accomplishes nothing. No one on here or anyone with the slighest inkling of common sense or an IQ over 50 buys any your bull shit, nor would they ever. Why continue discussing things you know nothing about?
In any event still waiting for you to back up any of your numerous numerous claims, but I know it will never happen, simply because you cant. One more justification to call you a blow hard. Making idle threats and promises you can never back up, constantly trying desperatly to discuss things that will always be well beyond your level of understanding. Give it up Mrs. Grey you arent fooling anyone, well aside from yourself.
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Robert, I chose not to post your personal info on there for the reason I stated last week. I know who you are, and where you live, but I dont want to put it on here and already told you why. I am not stupid, dumb, retarded, nor do I have a low IQ. I posted MY PERSONAL experiences on here..not yours. But you act like I am not allowed to post or type because they dont agree with your view of the school. I did observe the kids doing different things during the day. What I didnt do was see them in their dorms or attend their counseling sessions or classes. THat still makes my experiences valid does it not? I already told you where my photos are and why I cant get to them yet. I will post those when I get a chance. It is the absolutely ridiculous notion that just because I dont agree with your view makes anything I say invalid that is so totally bizarre to me. Have I ever told you not to post? Have I ever called you a child abuser or a slut? NO I have NOT. You post what you want, and Ill post what I want, whether you LIKE it or not. Calling someone stupid because they dont agree with your perspective is rude and immature at best. I have never called ANYBODY on here stupid. EVER. That is the difference between maturity and juvenile insults. That is the difference Robert, between you, and I.
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SHH,
It's considered unethical to divulge an ex-teacher's personal information, but it's okay to give out ex-students' names and addresses?
If it didn't come from HLA, how did you come to possess this information about RB?
***Robert, I chose not to post your personal info on there for the reason I stated last week. I know who you are, and where you live, but I dont want to put it on here and already told you why. I am not stupid, dumb, retarded, nor do I have a low IQ.
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SHH, you need to search your soul and ask yourself if it's really about the kids. I imagine that your ex (child support?) keeping his job would be the highest priority for you.
I would imagine that the majority, if not all, of kids ?didn?t want to be there?. So one should discount all the testimonies, even though they all sound familiar? Which ex-employees posting here are you alleging to have been fired, or ?didn?t feel they got fair treatment?? Please be specific or post the URL to messages from Anons who you feel fit that description.
RC came seven years later. Might he have been motivated at all to keep the money he was spending on outside wilderness programs ?in house? and provide jobs for all his mountain ranger buddies?
The issue about RC has to do with avoiding state regulations, among others. Did he assume that since HLA had gotten by without a license for seven years, that RC could do the same? Do you consider that to be a demonstration of ?good intentions?, of integrity, and caring about the kids? To avoid state regs and arrogantly lie to a parent? To deny a parents demand that her son be removed from an unlicensed program? And to subject kids to staff that do not possess the state requirements for education and experience? ?Good intentions?? You know what they say about ?good intentions??.
Now, who is exaggerating? Rat hole? Who said that? Beaten? Haven?t heard that one either. Imprisoned? Yep, that?s what you call involuntary confinement, although it?s more frequently refered to here as ?incarceration?.. Starving to death? Nope, haven?t heard that either. I have heard numerous valid complaints of kids receiving inadequate calories and denied a ?variety? of healthy foods for very long spans of time. And one 04 grad who complained about the food, ?a lot of it was fried and not enough choices for vegetarians?. Lynn chimed in and claimed she a liar. If you look at my evaluation of the sample weekly menu, in fact she wasn?t lying. Does that demonstrate ?good intentions??
Or, that the headmaster lied to parents when he told them that the HD had approved the limited calorie ?restriction? diet? Why do you think he warned us that our kid might get sick, as in vomit? if they?d been receiving ?normal? meals?
You claimed to have been in the cafeteria about 7 times a year. I would be very surprised if you said that you HAD seen kids ?crying excessively? and ?showing fear?. That?s considered manipulation and is consequenced. They cry at night, when they aren't under the microscope- constant surviellence. I think they learn pretty quickly to keep their emotions to themselves and keep a smile on their face. Did you ever just sit and chat with the kids long enough to establish trust so they could tell you what they really thought and felt? FYI, One can be malnourished without looking like a refugee. We are a nation of undernourished and overweight. (As I recall, your son fits into this category) Poor diet manifests in a variety of ways.
SHH, we are not in a brainstorming session with HLA here, to come up with suggestions for improving their program. Based on my experience, they were not interested in feedback and ignored every legitimate question I ever asked. I am not unique in that.
I think you could use some sensitivity training. You tell me how you would feel if you called your kids school to question something that a teacher had done, or to question their accreditation or to ask why your child was punished? and no one had the decency to return your calls and totally disregarded your concerns. I imagine you would be raging mad. For a time I sincerely was trying to understand the philosophy behind their methods. Unfortunately, that didn?t come from them. It had to come from professionals outside the program.
What do you suggest that others do with the ?ideas for improvement?? Shall we give them to you to pass on to DrB? In the meantime, I think it is useful for people to share their experiences, those who care to.
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i didn't see HLA on that list?
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On 2005-04-26 16:41:00, Deborah wrote:
I would imagine that the majority, if not all, of kids ?didn?t want to be there?. So one should discount all the testimonies, even though they all sound familiar?
Yeah, isn't that a pretty clear example of Program pretzel logic? Normally, when a majority (especially a vast majority) agree about something, we tend to think they might be onto something. But not Program people, nope! If the majority agree about anything contrary to Program dogma, then it constitutes proof that they're wrong. There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?
-- Dick Cavett
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Well my guess on why they didnt return your phone calls might have been that you didnt have full custody of your son and maybe legally they were not able to call you back? just a guess there. I dont know for sure on that one. And the best thing to do would be to talk to HLA on how to improve things, or send them letters if they wont return your calls at this late stage in the game since your son hasnt been there in a long time. And I never said I was in the cafeteria 7 times a year. I was in there if I was to guess..probably two or three times a month, more when my mother in law worked in the kitchen. That would be more like 24-36 times a year. And yes posters on here have suggested that HLA was a rat hole and should be burned to the ground and made into a parking lot. I saw that post. And no my motivations are not child support. You dont even know IF I get child support. WE might have joint custody with no child support. My motivation is that posts on here arent necessarily true and people are believing them when they shouldnt. [ This Message was edited by: SHH on 2005-04-26 18:50 ]
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Majority??? Antigen surely you jest. This is a message board with maybe.....10 or 15 people who agree with Robert and Dysfunction and Deborah. HARDLY a majority. Hundreds of kids graduate from HLA every year. Are they all on this board? are their parents? Is every former employee on this board? Nope. From the looks of it maybe 5%. Yea thats a majority alright. In who's world? And you have to remember something. I am not a "program" anything. I was a former clerical employee and former spouse of an employee, and a resident for 4 years. Not a program anything. I never attended classes to learn program techniques, never saw any sort of "program" rules. Never was forced to preach a certain dogma. Nothing of the sort. Nobody told me to say or not say or do or not do anything. To me the math speaks for itself. This board is a VERY small minority of people who werent happy with the results of the program, didnt like working there, or didnt like (in the case of students) being made to do what they were told or be made to do chores. And possibly had encounters with employees in the past who werent good for the school and have since been fired. (as in case of Rudy, etc). Nope this is definately not a majority. And Dr. B did not open the wilderness camp to keep money in his pockets. And the wilderness program was in the works for 2 yrs prior to opening. He opened it to give the kids a better place then the places out west. Nobody is trying to run the place illegally and sneak by with stuff. They do what they can to comply with whatever they need to. Its obviously not good enough for some people.
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I didnt get any personal info on Robert from HLA. I happen to have figured out who he is myself from info he gave out and from other ways. But I chose not to post it on here after saying I would becasue he continues to call me Mrs. Gray after I asked him not to about 100 times. I decided it would be tacky to post it so I changed my mind.
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On 2005-04-26 18:24:00, SHH wrote:
My motivation is that posts on here arent necessarily true and people are believing them when they shouldnt.
As so many people hold so many different views on so many different topics, that goes w/o saying. So why must you keep repeating it? And, of course, you post here too. Maybe we shouldn't believe you. The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic.
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist
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Maybe you shouldnt..but I am still posting the truth about what I do know about and my experiences,whereas I happen to know that some posts on here arent exactly truthful. Maybe thats the difference that I want to point out. And yes they have the right to post what they want, I understand that. But I have that right too. And should be considered as evenly as others.
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***I didnt get any personal info on Robert from HLA. I happen to have figured out who he is myself from info he gave out and from other ways.
And how do you know where he lives?
Don't you mean that your husband 'changed your mind'? That's what I recall.[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-04-26 21:33 ]
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I did not see Hidden Lake Academy on this website. They aren't on their watch list.
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***Well my guess on why they didnt return your phone calls might have been that you didnt have full custody of your son and maybe legally they were not able to call you back? just a guess there. I dont know for sure on that one.
Interesting, in another post you stated that as fact. Where are you getting your information? Is HLA providing you with (inaccurate) information about ex-parents as well? Even if your ?guess? were correct, parents who share custody have rights. You should know that, having been divorced.
What a hoot... if you were the ill informed patsy, set up to keep 'bickering' going here which distracts from more important discussion.
***And the best thing to do would be to talk to HLA on how to improve things, or send them letters if they wont return your calls at this late stage in the game since your son hasnt been there in a long time.
You can?t be serious. They wouldn?t talk to me when my son was there. And you want to suggest that they will warmly receive and act upon my ?suggestions for a better program? after the fact. Could you be more creative? So, in effect? stop posting here and send my suggestions/ complaints to them. You?re a hoot, SHH.
***And I never said I was in the cafeteria 7 times a year. I was in there if I was to guess..probably two or three times a month, more when my mother in law worked in the kitchen. That would be more like 24-36 times a year.
SHH wrote: Ive personally eaten at the school probably more than 50 times and thought it was fine. It was my mother in laws cooking for the first few years! LOL
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=30#82331 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5722&forum=9&start=30#82331)
50 times in seven years. That seems real near about 7 times a year. Do you have returning, failing, or selective memory?
***And yes posters on here have suggested that HLA was a rat hole and should be burned to the ground and made into a parking lot. I saw that post.
Do you understand ?figure of speech??
***And no my motivations are not child support. You dont even know IF I get child support. WE might have joint custody with no child support.
No, I don?t. Hence the question mark. Just seemed logical, cause it is clearly NOT about the kids.
***My motivation is that posts on here arent necessarily true and people are believing them when they shouldnt.
Do you have proof that this forum is that 'effective'? How many do you suppose are 'believing lies'? I'm guessing that there are a few who might look closer, but I personally imagine that the large majority of parents want/need to believe in HLA, just like yourself.
I would also like to point out that you have again chosen to avoid the more difficult questions I posed.
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***Majority??? Antigen surely you jest. This is a message board with maybe.....10 or 15 people who agree with Robert and Dysfunction and Deborah. HARDLY a majority.
Why single out Robert, myself, and DJ?
***Hundreds of kids graduate from HLA every year.
Careful with those exaggerations SHH. With 150 -175 kids there at any given time, how do they graduate 'hundreds' every year. Half my son?s PG left before graduation. And from what I'm told that is not unique. We aren?t hearing from those folks, either.
IF, they had 70 PGs to date, at full capacity (18), and all graduated, that would be 126 per year. Not to mention, they graduate every 2 years.
***To me the math speaks for itself.
Indeed it does, when you input accurate numbers.
RC was in the planning for two years, and no one bothered to check with the state regarding licensing? Poor planning. Every program owner in the industry KNOWS they are required to be licensed. They avoid it as long as possible. Take a slap on the hand, rather than the very steep fines allowed by law, and move on.
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-04-26 21:44 ]
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Not on site 'yet'. If they need to be, they will
be, the truth about the school is important, to
come out either way. To lay things to rest.
However, Isaccorp. cannot investigate without
input. Again, contact Isaccorp.@yahoo.com if
you have a complaint about any school. thanks
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1) HLA isnt giving me anything. I told you and the other posters I found this site on my own. Nobody is telling me what to say, giving me info, or instructing me to be anybody's "patsy" as you call it. If they wanted to see what was on here or post on here they would I suppose. I am not their employee or involved in the school anymore. I am posting because I feel things are being twisted around and I feel its unfair because I used to live there and I guess I take it personal that a place I enjoyed being involved with and enjoyed living there is being slandered.
2) I know where Robert lives because of another post on another board by an anonymous person that listed his city. (dont know his street address and dont want or need to know it). And because I already knew what state he was from from figuring out which student he was, that further verified it. I have no idea if HLA knows who he is or cares who he is. LIke I said, I dont know how much they come to this board if any.
3) The number of times I ate in the kitchen was a guess when I first posted a month or two ago. When I thought about it here more recently, I realized I had eaten there more than 50 times over the course of 7 yrs. (more during the last 4 since I lived there) For the first 3 yrs I lived 45 minutes south of Dahlonega and didnt go up there except on the weekends to visit the in-laws and for my husband to do weekend work up there, or for school functions.
4) Hundreds graduating every year was probably a little bit of a high number, but if you have on average 10-12 kids graduating out of every peer group and you have 70 peer groups(I think thats what you typed) that would be 700-840 kids after graduating the last peer group. My point, which obviously was missed, wasnt the precise number, but the fact that I dont see 700 kids posting on here that the school is an abusive, disgusting facility. I see 10-15. Antigen said the majority felt the same way about the school being a bad place, and I cant see how she can even calculate what she sees on here as a majority of feelings about the school. There are a ton of websites out there listing abusive facilities. There is only 1 website that lists HLA as a possibly abusive place, (the HEAL website). And even some of the things on there are assumptions that they decided to post without verifying facts.
5)I singled out you, Robert & Dysfunction because you 3 in particular post the most frequently about your negative opinion of the school and I just used it as an example. That was why I did that. I guess I could throw in Antigen in there too but since she has never visited the school or was ever associated with it in a personal way I didnt put her in there. It was just used as an example, thats all.
6) Your custody status was not given to me by anybody. I figured out from your numerous postings the situation. Because of what you said about only your ex talking to them, them not returning your calls, etc, it is possible he told them not to return your calls or talk to you about the issue and possible that they felt since you didnt have custody they could get in trouble legally by talking to you and not the father.If he had physical custody his word would weigh in more than yours. If your postings did not show the true picture then I am mistaken, but that is what it appears to be from your postings.
If HLA wanted someone to post on here for them, you can bet they wouldnt be using someone's ex wife so that idea that I am their patsy is sort of goofy dont you think? LOL This was my choice, good or bad but still my own choice. I dont know if any other questions were posed recently to me, but those are what I was reading just now that needed to be responded to. I have to take my father to the doctor and then work late tonight so wont be on here to answer anything for a day or so.
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Thanks to all of you who have picked up the yoke in dealing with SHH's "inaccuracies." Not an easy job, is it?
She LOVES to avoid answering ANY questions directly. When no one challenges her, she's got "inside access," but when challenged, defaults to "I never claimed to be a counselor, did I?"
To answer your earlier question, Deborah, NO, SHH never participated in any groups or had any relationships with residents there other than a passing "hello." That's how she became an expert on how the kids feel.
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On 2005-04-27 05:15:00, SHH wrote:
My point, which obviously was missed, wasnt the precise number, but the fact that I dont see 700 kids posting on here that the school is an abusive, disgusting facility.
There are 2255 users total; many belong to ppl who use multiple names, many are just bogus spamdexing profiles.
Of those, only a few have ever posted regarding any firsthand info on HLA. But the prevailing opinion among former students, parents and staff seems to be decidedly negative.
Again, has it occured to you that their perceptions are more accurate or better informed than yours? It is possible, ya' know!
It (the Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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******I posted MY PERSONAL experiences on here..not yours. But you act like I am not allowed to post or type because they dont agree with your view of the school.******
No bitch thats your philosphy. You called me and others liars on numerous occasions. Dont get mad now when I do the same thing to you. Espically since its been shown over and over again my testimony about the school has far more credibility than yours. I was forced to be there and had to experience it day in day out. You just lived on the property away from campus and mailed out report cards. You had nothing to do with the students or our day to day life, nor are you qualified to comment on it.
*****What I didnt do was see them in their dorms or attend their counseling sessions or classes. THat still makes my experiences valid does it not?
No retard it doesnt, counseling sessions, classes and being in the dorms were the biggest parts of our time at HLA. What else was there for you to observe? You said earlier you had nothing to do with restrictions or work assingments, so what...you saw us in the cafeteria? Wow you really knew us through and through, you know you sound exactly like Witherspoon.
" And I never said I was in the cafeteria 7 times a year. I was in there if I was to guess..probably two or three times a month, more when my mother in law worked in the kitchen."
Seriously youre full of shit. No one remembers you, because you were never around. Let me ask you though why is it you claim you ate in the cafeteria 2-3 times a month, but Fat Bill didnt? I know for a fact he usually ate off campus.
"My motivation is that posts on here arent necessarily true and people are believing them when they shouldnt"
Or convincing them of your bull shit instead the reality of the situation that we offer. Oh excuse me the bull shit youve been instructed to spew off.
"This board is a VERY small minority of people who werent happy with the results of the program, didnt like working there, or didnt like (in the case of students) being made to do what they were told or be made to do chores. And possibly had encounters with employees in the past who werent good for the school and have since been fired"
Being made to do what we were told? Being made to do chores? Mrs. Grey you assume way to much, I had to do all of that stuff at home. If thats all it was it would have been no different. No I didnt like HLA because I recognized it for what it was. I didnt like being held against my will, or told every single day I was a sick person who had issues ( all while never being told exactly what those issues were or what actions I was committing which illuminated them). I didnt like a place that sought to silence us at any cost and called any complaint against the school a form of "manipulation". I didnt like being told every thought and feeling and opinion I had was wrong and thus I was a bad person, and I didnt like having my rights violated and freedoms removed, I didnt like watching a group of hypocrites go on and on about how manipulative we all were all while parents and government officals were regurally lied to. I assure you Mrs. Grey if you had actually ever talked to other students (which as we all know you never did) you would know full well students didnt dislike the school simply because we had to "do chores", idiot.
"Nobody is trying to run the place illegally and sneak by with stuff. They do what they can to comply with whatever they need to. Its obviously not good enough for some people."
Are you sure Mrs. Grey? I gave the information you would need to confirm the fact that HLA has been lying to the state about their pourpose and avoiding regs and proper licensure? How could they after so many years not know of this?
"Maybe you shouldnt..but I am still posting the truth about what I do know about and my experiences,whereas I happen to know that some posts on here arent exactly truthful. Maybe thats the difference that I want to point out. And yes they have the right to post what they want, I understand that. But I have that right too. And should be considered as evenly as others. "
You didnt extend people that courtesy before, dont expect to recieve it now.
"I know where Robert lives because of another post on another board by an anonymous person that listed his city. (dont know his street address and dont want or need to know it). And because I already knew what state he was from from figuring out which student he was, that further verified it. I have no idea if HLA knows who he is or cares who he is. LIke I said, I dont know how much they come to this board if any.
"
Hmmm I find this interesting Mrs. Grey, since I dont live in the same state I lived in when I attended HLA how could you have made this corelation? Tell me also how could you have simply "guessed" as to my identity without recieving outside information? Ive told you we met only once and then briefly, during that conversation I told you nothing about my personal life, I would assume you dont have access to former students records. So elaborate further, what basis did you have from the limited comments I made about myself to determine who I am. I mean honestly Mrs. Grey a person of your level of inteligence isnt capable of such feats on your own. So assuming that you arent just talking out your ass..again and do know who I am, lets be honest. Fat Bill let you know didnt he? I mean youre claiming that HLA doesnt moniter these sites, but as we know from Marlas experience they sure do, not to mention M. Quick and of course Lynn. Cant all be coincidences now can they, but again Mrs. Grey "tackiness" aside lets see if you cant back up your statement with just one little detail, I doubt it.
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Your comments in #1 are mute. My reference to ?patsy? has to do with someone feeding you erroneous information, which you post here to keep people busy straightening out the inaccurate information. Didn?t claim they ?sent you here?. As I?ve said before, you don?t strike me as the type that HLA would choose to speak for them. You're too unprofessional.
Okay, so you recently remembered that you?d eaten in the cafeteria 3-5 times more often than you originally remembered. And, how many ?intimate? conversations did you have with students? Intimate enough to know how they honestly felt and what they thought.
10 (70 PGs) = 700 total Divide that by 10 years and you?ve got 70 kids who might have graduated every year. Or 140 every two years.
8 (70 PGs) = 560 students that left before graduating. I assume their parents were unhappy. The fact that they?re not posting here doesn?t deminish that reality.
That number could be low, as my son?s PG started with 18 and ended with 8.
The comment about ?the majority? of kids had to do with "the majority of kids were not happy about being there?, NOT that the majority of unhappy kids are posting here. Another mute argument. :roll:
You ?figured out? nothing about my custody status and if you have a shred of decency you will refrain from stating assumptions about me personally, as facts. I can?t fathom how you deduced that from ?my postings?. Care to elaborate specifically?
I?m sure it is very difficult to impossible for you to believe that a parent could place their child in a program without the other parents knowledge or consent and in violation of a court ordered decree. Then conspire with the program to keep them there when the matter is taken to family court. I understand !!! I could not believe it was happening either. Neither could my family or friends, or the professionals I consulted with. But it did, and is not uncommon in the industry. It?s unethical at best. And, unfortunately his and HLAs perjured ?word? did weigh in more than mine.
Are you genuinely ignorant or pretending to be? Even parents with limited custody still have the right to have access to their child?s schools and records, doctors, and such; unless those rights have been removed by court order.
My ex has a history of not understanding the divorce decree. As part of discovery for a lawsuit, I have in my possession letters that he sent to a facility he placed our older son in claiming that I had no rights and all visits must be approved by him. Got that straightened out and forced them to honor my visitation rights. I showed up every weekend and took my son... much to their dismay.
When he placed our second son, closer to home. Same scenerio. Took a copy of the decree to them and they relented and honored my court ordered rights, which supercede the program's rules re: visitation, btw.
I spect that was in part why he took him 1000 miles away to HLA, overnight. Impossible for me to get there every weekend and demand my visitation.
Welcome to the real world. Irrational and vengeful parents do violate the law when they feel certain they can get by with it.
Search for 'carey bock' and read her testimony. That is just one case that was well publicized.
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just for the record...i do not monitor the board for HLA, i just got tired of all the negativity and thought i would add a different or differing perspective. i really am no ones stooge, just a curious employee.
thanks!
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Who happens to report all this nasty nasty truth telling to your bosses?
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Well I suppose if they wanted to they could look this site up on the internet just as easily as the rest of us....I am sure they are fully capable of that task...they sure as heck dont need me to do that for them! LOL I post for my own purposes not theirs..I dont work for them anymore or even live in GA anymore.
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So you agree then that we telling the truth then? My goodness Mrs. Gray you might just be making progress!
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man Robert your brain is twisted..nowhere in my statement did i say that ...I said they could come here...the "reporting" part...I didnt say anything was truth or fiction now did i...you really read some bizarre chit into things dont you LOL
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On 2005-04-28 18:14:00, SHH wrote:
"man Robert your brain is twisted..nowhere in my statement did i say that ...I said they could come here...the "reporting" part...I didnt say anything was truth or fiction now did i...you really read some bizarre chit into things dont you LOL"
I thought you weren't going to respond to Robert anymore? The compulsion is part of your disease.
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Disease??? What is my disease? I post on a message board and you say I'm diseased? with what??? LOL!! Oh yes thats right..this one comes from the person who wants me to commit suicide because they dont agree with my postings...sounds like Im not the one with a disease.
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Just giving you the stock HLA answer... How's it feel?
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Oh Mrs. Grey dont be silly, you dont need to exhibit and real symptoms for us to declare you have a disease. Someone(a doctor is not nessecary anyone will do) just has to say you have one and alakazam youve got a disease. Youre okay with this philosphy arent you? I mean you were okay with it when it put food on your table, I dont see why youd have a problem with it now. The first thing we need to do is get you to admitt you have a problem, followed by an addmission of guilt of anything and everything we can possibly dredge up, real and imagiened. You support this type of treatment correct?
Mrs. Grey when can we expect you to call up ORS, I mean you claimed I was lying about HLA being improperly licensed yet you still refuse to bother to find out the truth why is this?
Oh and still waiting for you to ever back up your idle threats. Glad to have you reinforce the fact that you know absolutly nothing about me, goes along with you knowing absolutly nothing about HLA.
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I have spent the last three days reading everything that everyone has posted as far back as it would let me go. I have been a graduate of this school for almost a year now, and still question how I got through it. Many people think we are trying to be dramatic or get attention when we make cliche comments like that about our experience, but I well assure you, that It is an accurate statement. I look back at those 2 years and wonder if it really happened? How could it have? The only way I found to survive was to become everything they wanted me to be.
Ive been writing since I was young, and have my own certain style and subject matter I enjoy writing about. My journal was found one day by a staff member in a random room search (common) and given to my counselors. From then on they read my journal regularly and confescated it when the subject matter didn't fit to to their liking. That was one of the biggest violations of privacy i'd ever had, and finally just stopped writing. Same with my art, and musical interests. I'd be put on restrictions if any of those areas rubbed them the wrong way.
Countless other incidences occured while residing there but I think the most offensive was feeling like I had to change everything about myself to not be punished. Not negative behavior, not acting out, just simple personality traits like taste in music, and style of art and writing. Its an awful feeling.
You'll hear from me again... Just need to register and stuff. Parents, please dont be hesitant to ask anything. I am definitely against Hidden Lake, but I am also honest. I dont embellish or lie about what went on there, and would like to be considered an objective source for facts about the place. Hah, and then opinions I'll give on my own time.
Oh, and Deborah, Robert, and Dysfunction, thank you for your incredible research and devotion to putting an end to HLA. It helps us who have gone through that place and were told every day we were liars and manipulators to know there is someone who believes us. Thank you.
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Uh oh MRS. GREY wont like that, nor will Lynn after all anyone who has something negative to say about HLA is bad and sick sick sick, and of course a liar, probably worships Satan and in all likelyhood eats babies.
How will you respond to this MRS. GREY? Will you discount his experinces, and claim he is exageratting or telling half truths? What will you do MRS. GREY?
Will you ever back up your threats MRS. GREY? I doubt it. Face the facts that you cannot.
Anonymus Im glad to help, I know what your going through and would be glad to discuss any of the atrocities of HLA with you.
Oh and MRS. GREY Im confused, in reviewing earlier post you claimed you knew when it was I had attended HLA yet you told Juniper you didnt know. Which is it? Also Im wondering since I predicted you would want to change the subject about your claim that not only was there no racism in Daholonga but that racism is more prevalent in the north than in the south. Since I was correct in my prediction do I get a sticker of some sorts or just to get to call you an easily predicatable simpleton?
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On 2005-04-29 15:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have spent the last three days reading everything that everyone has posted as far back as it would let me go. I have been a graduate of this school for almost a year now, and still question how I got through it. Many people think we are trying to be dramatic or get attention when we make cliche comments like that about our experience, but I well assure you, that It is an accurate statement. I look back at those 2 years and wonder if it really happened? How could it have? The only way I found to survive was to become everything they wanted me to be.
Ive been writing since I was young, and have my own certain style and subject matter I enjoy writing about. My journal was found one day by a staff member in a random room search (common) and given to my counselors. From then on they read my journal regularly and confescated it when the subject matter didn't fit to to their liking. That was one of the biggest violations of privacy i'd ever had, and finally just stopped writing. Same with my art, and musical interests. I'd be put on restrictions if any of those areas rubbed them the wrong way.
Countless other incidences occured while residing there but I think the most offensive was feeling like I had to change everything about myself to not be punished. Not negative behavior, not acting out, just simple personality traits like taste in music, and style of art and writing. Its an awful feeling.
You'll hear from me again... Just need to register and stuff. Parents, please dont be hesitant to ask anything. I am definitely against Hidden Lake, but I am also honest. I dont embellish or lie about what went on there, and would like to be considered an objective source for facts about the place. Hah, and then opinions I'll give on my own time.
Oh, and Deborah, Robert, and Dysfunction, thank you for your incredible research and devotion to putting an end to HLA. It helps us who have gone through that place and were told every day we were liars and manipulators to know there is someone who believes us. Thank you.
"
Welcome, young lady/gentleman (?). Thank you for shedding some light on the situation for us. I look forward to your continued involvement.
I appreciate your compliment, but it is really misplaced on me. Yes, Robert and Deborah have done outstanding jobs of pointing out legal/technical facts about HLA's licensure, etc.
As for my part, I have stated facts about HLA's operations/philosophy, etc. drawn from my experience working there at it's inception through the first two years. Of course, I have direct, first-hand knowledge of how this place operates because I was involved in the planning, the formulation of policy and so forth.
As I have stated previously, HLA has a nice, attractive, shiny wrapper, but when you examine it closely, it's a worm-eaten apple. Based on what was expressed to me as their "vision," I did truly believe that HLA would be something special and different to help kids who weren't able to be helped by other means. This couldn't have been further from reality.
I soon realized that the staff were from CEDU, a known highly abusive facility. They were very strange in the way they acted and interacted with the kids. Oftentimes they were outright abusive, verbally abusing children and doing things that made my sense of decency suffer, like rationing food as punishment.
Early on I found that nobody there was actually licensed or educated to perform therapy. Not only that, but the so-called "clinical director" had a phony degree (which was known to the owner, but he did not act to rectify the situation). I routinely saw the rules being changed on the fly to suit a staffer's manipulations.
I saw adults "getting off" on humiliating kids. I saw the Headmaster (no mental health degree and a CEDUite) stand a child up in front of the entire student body and staff and "explain" why he had "the smallest dick in the entire school." The kid was crushed and I was astounded, flabbergasted, and deeply embarrassed.
Eventually, I saw that this ship could not be righted and that nobody had any interest in doing so. It was a contradiction to everything I had learned in college and an affront to my sensibilities, so I left.
Before I left I spilled the beans on the dirty staff, including cocaine use, and again, nothing was done. After the cokehead employee ADMITTED it in front of me and the Headmaster, she was allowed to stay on staff. She simply had too much dirt on the program to be fired, as she might have "told on" some folks (I believe that she eventually ended up in court with HLA and some of their dirty business was exposed, but not enough).
Needless to say, I knew this place was "all wrong," but I had never known before that there was a common thread to all of these places and the methods they use to extract the maximum dollar from duped parents while providing less than the minimum standard of care for their "clients."
I knew, for example, that no student was allowed to "fail" any class. They were simply given a passing grade, regardless of performance. Classes were "taught" by people who didn't have education degrees at all. Group "therapy" was run by staff with ABSOLUTELY NO CREDENTIALS WHATSOEVER, and consisted of berating kids and calling them names like "slut," "whore," "prostitute," and adjectives like "worthless," "incorrigible," even "asshole," and "faggot."
Of course, there is more, but I will truncate my comments because they are available elsewhere on this board. I made every effort to disclose and discuss these issues with the owner of the facility. His ears were deaf. Nothing was changing, and I could see that the money was really starting to pour in, so nothing would change ("Don't fuck with the cash flow" was how it appeared to me).
It was ALL WRONG. And, thanks to your post, anon, I can clearly see it still is...
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality"
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-04-30 05:58 ]
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there seemed to be alot of court involvements regarding HLA, do you know where i would be able to find the court documents related to these cases? usually a closed court case is public knowledge (not right word, but it is late and i cannot think, but hopefully you will know what i mean).
i would like to see some of the charges and "resolutions" they have had!
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When looking for court cases, don't forget to look for the cases of slander, filed and won, by HLA against known persons contributing to these forums.
Why should anyone expect that situations are the same as they were 10 years ago, at any school, or work place for that matter. Those in this forum seem to be sharing experiences that occurred in the past, and not describing current situations at HLA.
I had no trouble driving onto campus, unannounced, and having a look-see. It's not Princeton, but it also was not a chamber of horrors.
If thinking of HLA for your behaviourally challenged child, simply do your homework, and make sure its up-to-date information from all venues. There are always different perceptions of reality, dependant on the "baggage" each person brings to the table.
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That's excellent advice.
If it were me, I'd ask for the contact info of at least a dozen parents who pulled their child before graduation, for reasons other than financial difficulty. And then check with all governmental agencies and offices in the area, no matter what program you are considering.
Do you have links to the lawsuits mentioned?
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On 2005-05-03 17:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"When looking for court cases, don't forget to look for the cases of slander, filed and won, by HLA against known persons contributing to these forums.
Why should anyone expect that situations are the same as they were 10 years ago, at any school, or work place for that matter. Those in this forum seem to be sharing experiences that occurred in the past, and not describing current situations at HLA.
I had no trouble driving onto campus, unannounced, and having a look-see. It's not Princeton, but it also was not a chamber of horrors.
If thinking of HLA for your behaviourally challenged child, simply do your homework, and make sure its up-to-date information from all venues. There are always different perceptions of reality, dependant on the "baggage" each person brings to the table. "
I guess you're not reading this forum before making comments. If you actually DID read this thread, you would see that there are former staff from just a month or two ago posting here as well as kids who just left. Remarkably, these stories are very similar to one another even though temporally separate...
Of course, this is not a matter of "perception," as you state, but rather an example of someone (you) misrepresenting the truth (the information is "10 years old"). Try READING before making a statement and maybe your opinion would take on more gravity, as it would at least RESEMBLE reality.
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I've read the forum from beginning to end. I am spcificaly referring only to those persons who repeatedly discuss the first two years and how HLA used to be. (Unqualified personel, no parental visit for 4 months - its 2 months now, etc.) As I stated from my own personal experience, I drove onto campus last month, unannounced, and was not given any trouble as I explored.
I am not a former student, employee or parent. I have a deep concern for behaviourally challenged children and teens - cutting; huffing; alcohol and substance abuse; not understanding, nor willing to accept, consequences for their actions; verbally abusive language; no respect for authority, nor understanding that there is an authority other than themselves. Most "normal" schools are simply not equipped to deal with such children (nor do they want to).
My intention for writing was simply to remind prents of behaviourally challenged children to follow up on their own, rather than relying on a small number of sources, including, not relying on school brochures, nor everything they may read on a website.
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You're not a former student, employee or parent.
Are you an Ed Con?
And you just drove up without an appointment?
No doubt, the primary thing lenghty incarcerations WILL teach is that there is 'an authority other than themselves'.
There are more humane ways to help teens master their lives.
How many of the kids at HLA do you think fit the stereotypical description you provided?
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Not an Ed Con
And yes, I just drove up
Didn't see the entire student population at HLA
Can't answer that specific question
Regarding these types of behaviourally challenged children in general, I've seen quite a few.
For some, going thru Purgatory is the only way to save their lives.
Programs are not for everyone. Parents need to be judicious in deciding what is right for their particular child.
There is and always will be Authority other than ourselves. We don't master our own lives.
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It's equally disturbing to me that someone who has no connection to the "school" - i.e. not a parent, not a family member, not an ed con, etc - can just drive onto campus and start "exploring" without hindrance or even verification of identification.
THAT'S pretty scary in and of itself...
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***There is and always will be Authority other than ourselves. We don't master our own lives
An important aspect of mastering our environment is coming to the realization that there will always be authority other than ourselves. And further mastery entails being able to recognize when the external authority is or is not acting in our best interest. There is nothing useful or mature about blindly following 'authority'. Critical thinking and negotiation skills are much more important in the real world, and not taught with punishment.
If a child's real needs are being met, there is little to no need for external 'authority', guidance will suffice. And would never result in two years of isolation from their families and the real world, where they are not mastering anything of real value, in my estimation.
Children want parents who have mastered these aspects of their own lives. If they modeled mastery, their kid might actually desire to follow. Short of that, we have 'authority', 'incarceration', and 'punishment'.
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If this person showed identification, and then checked the school out, that wouldn't be so scary. I would assume they did at least verify who this person was.
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I would be disappointed if they hadn't.
I drove out to the facility the evening before a family workshop. As I pulled into the parking lot I happened to see my son round the corner of a building carrying a black trash bag and a trash stick. I was driving over to say hello and was stopped by a staff person and told that I must leave and not return until the scheduled event. I was not allowed to even say hello.
It's a bit out-of-the-way for people just to drop in. I can't imagine a person driving there without an appointment and risking being turned away. Doesn't seem reasonable.
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If a catholic parishoner who was raped thirty years ago by their priest and calls that same priest a rapist he cant sue the parishoner for slander can he? Even if he hasnt raped anyone in that thirty years he can still be called a rapist can he not. Even if HLA has dramatically changed in the past few years( which again apparently it has not given the testimony of recent students and teachers) it still would not change the atrocities of the past would it? It would not change the fact that HLA has apparently gone 11 years without proper licensure would it? You tell me, followed by posting links referencing some of these law suits youre refering to.
MRS GREY why so quiet now? To many questions and issues you cant respond to?
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On 2005-05-04 18:28:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"If a catholic parishoner who was raped thirty years ago by their priest and calls that same priest a rapist he cant sue the parishoner for slander can he? Even if he hasnt raped anyone in that thirty years he can still be called a rapist can he not. Even if HLA has dramatically changed in the past few years( which again apparently it has not given the testimony of recent students and teachers) it still would not change the atrocities of the past would it? It would not change the fact that HLA has apparently gone 11 years without proper licensure would it? You tell me, followed by posting links referencing some of these law suits youre refering to.
MRS GREY why so quiet now? To many questions and issues you cant respond to?"
Mrs. Gray's likely response to you, Robert...
"I TOLD you not to call me MRS. GRAY!! Stop it!
You're all so twisted. I NEVER LIE. And, by the way, I'm not into denial. WHATEVER, Robert!"
See? I just gave you all the substance you'd be likely to get from Mrs. Gray, AND you didn't have to actually DEAL with her!
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You forgot the the multiple "LMAO" and the "I'll post up those sledding pictures when I get the chance, I do take care of TWO disabled family members. FEEL SORRY FOR ME!!!!"
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Well, at least she's gone. That's positive...
:wave:
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Actualy Ive been going back and forth with someone on the amazing forums board, who doesnt sound like her, but is saying some of the same things, namely that he knows who I am, however all of his guesses to date have been pulled straight from his ass, but the ususal refusing to admit when shown to be wrong, and desperate attempts to detract from issues, along with refusing to answer questions. Definitly smacks of her or someone shes talking to. Either way shell be back here, she cant stand for us to be telling the truth for to long.
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The following is a letter I had written in response to a concerned parent who currently has a child at Hidden Lake Academy:
"Hello. The letter you viewed was one I'd written last year around this time actually. I'd love to answer any questions you have. I must first ask though, why was he sent to HLA? The reason I ask is because you need to ask yourself a very serious question, Was the way he was before he went to HLA as dangerous as how he may feel upon his life after HLA? I'll give you a quick background of my story in order for you to understand. Right up to the time before I went to HLA, I had ceased caring whether I lived or died and had become a wandering junkie among the streets after dropping out of school and running away from home. I was sent to HLA upon a court order. I don't want to go into detail about how horrible my experience was at HLA, but I will say that there's no real individual counseling in order to find out what each child needs. It's all done the cheapest way possible in order for them to still say that they are counseling, which is group counseling. Group counseling on a mass structure can be successful when everyone may be suffering from the same problems such as Alcoholics Anonymous, but in this case what one child needs another may not. You must also understand that because of this they fill everyones heads with the same rules of life by breaking down everything they've been taught and rebuilding their thinking. This sounds as if it could be good, yes? But it's not. It's not actually correcting any problems. It's covering them up with a therapeutic veneer and teaching them to suppress their problems since they're not actually working through them. This insures that they may seem like things are better for them and that they're cured for a long enough time for them to leave HLA and then some. As you know though, anything suppressed will eventually surface and need to be dealt with again. So in actuallity HLA did nothing except offer a temporary fix. For some it does work, but very few. Most of the children end up with double the amount of problems, because you then have to worry about the same old problems accompanied by the trust issues and identity disorder that HLA has installed. After leaving HLA I started noticing that I felt like a robot. It took awhile to figure out who I was again. Through all this searching I was lucky, because I started noticing subtle beauties in life that made me want to live, plus being sober I was able to look back at all the wrongs I'd done and people I'd hurt and became determined to change some of my ways. Now I'm a very happy person for the most part, but I do suffer from some problems that I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to overcome, because my mind doesn't recognize them. They're purely irrational thoughts that I can't control which cause me to have panic attacks. I have social anxiety disorder and some serious trust issues from things my last psychologist said had become such a deep part of my psyche that it was part of my personality and could become a danger to try to change. I have learned to function fine as long as I take my medication. I am in a very successful relationship, my parents and I are now much better friends, and I care about my life as well as others'... Once again, I must say, that was my story. Everybody's story's different. For some the rebellious teenager is just a phase. It's practically impossible to know that though since we can't see the future. My parents have apologized a few times about getting me sent to HLA, because they see what it has done. They say that if they could go back they would do things differently. I don't think it's that easy though. I needed some help and my parents just didn't know what to do. I do not blame them for anything. They did what they felt they had to after we'd gotten into some serious scuffles and they saw me slowly but rapidly dying. You can see why I said that this is a very hard question to deal with. My advice personally is not HLA and is one on one counseling with the whole family. Make sure also that the psychologist is not a friend of anyone in the family, because you do not want them to be tempted into taking sides because of the personal relationship he/she has with a family member. For all we know, there may be things about all of you that may need to change in order for there to be that balance that your family needs. I know that's how it was for us, my family that is. This means that you must be open for anything that your therapist may say to you without getting defensive. There is no easy way out of this. Remember that... I to have never told my parents certain disturbing things that have gone on there, because they already beat themselves up over sending me there, so I can understand why your son is reluctant to say anything. Plus there's also the fact that he's scared to because of what they may try to pull. I was brainwashed into trying to commit suicide when they found out that I was trying to get my court order dropped because I felt like I'd worked through all of my problems, mostly on my own because i was willing and wanted to change things in my life. They wanted me to slip up and try something so as not to lose my money. It didn't exactly work as they wanted it to because we discovered what they were trying to do. Avarice and the ability to control someone's mind don't mix... Concerning your academics worry, there are no real academics. In spanish, the answers were always on the bottom of the page upside down and no teaching was involved, just worksheets. It's a gimic in order to make the parents feel as if some change is occuring. You cannot fail a class, you get incompletes until they make you do it with work assignments or calistenics. I remember when I made honor roll, my parents were so proud that I didn't even tell them that I was only in my first week of the school classes and hadn't actually done anything yet. So he may get good grades, but there's no serious learning taking place. I'd be more worried about his being able to function upon leaving than his academics though, because his credits should transfer fine. But he may do horrible in the next school because although it states that he made an A in the previous math class, there's a good chance he didn't learn anything, so it's going to be more difficult for him to keep up since he's been out of a real school environment for so long... I hope that all of this will encourage you to make the decision you feel is best. I'm sorry you must go through this, but since you must, please make the best educated decision possible. This is your son's future and possibly his life at stake. Since you obviously care about him in order to seek my help, I'm sure you'll do what is best. Here is a link yu may find helpful, http://www.heal-online.org/hiddenlake.htm... (http://www.heal-online.org/hiddenlake.htm...). Are you aware that there are a few class action lawsuits in the works against HLA?.. Please do not tell HLA that you have spoken with me. They are very powerful and have the ability to come up with answers to anything, hence the psychologist part. I'm risking alot by sharing these things with you. Thankyou and Goodluck. Love, Me"
I have posted this with the hopes that I could help answer some questions for those in worry. If you are planning to or know someone who may be planning to undergo such circumstances, please forward on this letter. Thankyou.
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I would like to know where all of my college money went and how someone could talk my parents into paying that much money for such a worthless program. The whole reason I got sent down to HLA was because I was thought to be a stoner. Which, by the way, I was not. After I got pulled they realized I am simply just extremely ADHD and Dyslexic.
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On 2005-05-19 08:17:00, revengeofamuffin wrote:
"I would like to know where all of my college money went and how someone could talk my parents into paying that much money for such a worthless program. The whole reason I got sent down to HLA was because I was thought to be a stoner. Which, by the way, I was not. After I got pulled they realized I am simply just extremely ADHD and Dyslexic."
Call HLA and speak to Dr. Buccellato. I'm sure he can tell you in which of his investment portfolios your college savings now resides...
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On 2005-05-19 08:17:00, revengeofamuffin wrote:
"I would like to know where all of my college money went and how someone could talk my parents into paying that much money for such a worthless program. The whole reason I got sent down to HLA was because I was thought to be a stoner. Which, by the way, I was not. After I got pulled they realized I am simply just extremely ADHD and Dyslexic."
Another fine example of why emotional growth programs are bullshit and a complete waste of money. If HLA is so good, then why couldn't they figure out you were dyslexic? Maybe they could've if only they cared about you. Unfortunately, The only thing places like HLA care about is profits.
Good luck to you. I sincerely hope that you find the answers you're looking for.
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-05-25 14:30 ]
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bumpity-bump
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thats what i was thinking too.. haha
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Going to events off school property is not what it seems, unless you are told to talk to people you cant and will get in trouble for doing so. Yes you get to see your parents but its not always 4 monthes I went 6 without seeing mine.
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Yall need to stop bickering!!! I dont know which one of yall knew what but The students knew the qualifications or lack there of of the staff members and frequently asked the staff if the rumors were true about where the came from and usually got some sort of honest answer. There are too many people at such a confined school to keep secrets.
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usually 4- 14 students went at any given time wether it was a trip or com. servive or church.And i do know because i went on those trips pg26
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I swear, just reading through this board, it's amazing how quickly within your search for "truth" and "justice" against HLA, you take such grand pleasure in biting lasciviously into anyone who disagrees with you. Even when they're not directly disagreeing. A person could simply mention in passing that they'd heard of Hidden Lake and a response would line up somewhere along, "So what you're trying to say is that you AGREE with the evil fascism because you didn't burn the place down at first glance" etc. etc. Yes, it's a stretch, but as noted, that's the point.
So obvious that I feel it needs to be said (as I'm sure it's been resaid here over and over), whether it be first-hand or research, all we have is our observations. I can understand the people who are upset, hurt, and what not. I can understand the people who see Hidden Lake as an opportunity. I can't understand people who shred on complete strangers and add over-the-top presumptuous statements that would make a conspiracy theorist blush.
If you have a serious purpose, don't dash it with atavistic name-calling and slander. If someone has had an actual positive experience, well by golly if you shouldn't find out how such an experience was had. Support I understand. There are some great, great kids at HLA. Some of them are truly there for the better. Some of them would be better off elsewhere. But for all the horrors entailed within certain views of the school, you should look on those positives as a glimmer of hope, a sign of change. Or you could simply say, "no, no, I think I disagree."
HLA is not the same school it was 10 years ago. It's not the same school it was 5 years ago. In 5 years, it will change. In 10 years, even more. No one can excuse past events or present debacles but being openly rude and vile here isn't going to a solve a gosh darn thing. If the school were operating without the proper license, the state would handle it. They do that. There are people in little cubicles whose entire life occupation consists of such wondrous tasks. If those cubicaleers happened to be on an extended lunch break, I'm sure at least one lawyer has looked into it and something substantial would be brought up. If nothing has been done, maybe it's because "they" subjugated the law where all others have failed...but that would be venturing into the "I doubt it" game and aces are wild. The laws I love; the lawyers I suspect.
Bottom line: Enough with reading between the lines to the point of making yourselves sound ridiculous. Enough with flaming. Basic rhetorical ideals (that boil down to nothing more than "just be polite") can get a point through easier than anything else; whether or not any sort of actual "hey, you've made me change my mind" moments will truly happen in this sort of environment is completely moot - it all boils down to intellectual masturbation at this level. Hearts and minds are quite hardened when that people post here. Share your stories if you want to incite change, just spare your dear readers the raging infernos...I think I'm starting to peel. :silly:
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Your statement seems to suggest that we who attended the school anywhere from 5 to 10 years ago have a valid claim against the school then?
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oh well thank god that my claims of how shitty hidden lake was to the kids gets validated by some prick who really doesnt know what they are talking about. i was there from 98-2000. i dont pretend to know what its like now but i cant see how the place could have gotten any better, especially with that cocksmoker lee parham still working there. im sorry if this is not "intellectual" or is "rhetoric" but honestly, i don't care what anyone thinks about me or the way i choose to present my ideas. Yeah, im flaming hidden lake and "its a raging inferno". shut up dork, you try having your life taken from you, and being treated like you were a fucking criminal at 14 years old. not to sound cliche but some scars, not physical, that I gained there will never heal. I may not have been a good kid, but i grew up to be a great man, and I and everyone i surround myself with knows that, but regardless of that, the way i was treated was ridiculous. If hidden lake were to continue changing as you said in the next 5-10 years and start honestly caring about and helping kids, then I guess, good for hidden lake. I speak nothing but the truth about MY experience and MY experience alone. You can defend hidden lake all you want to me, it doesn't matter, because I lived it. For all I know, it could now be a summer camp with gumdrop smiles and chocolate rivers. I highly doubt it, but I don't "flame" hidden lake for now, and I don't have a right too. I flame them for 20 months that I experienced myself, and no amount of anyone saying "all youre doing is slandering hidden lake" is going to change that. Im not posting because I feel the need to engage in some sort of dialog about hidden lake. There is no intelligent conversation to be had with me about this place. I know what i went through, and no one is going to change that, or make me "rethink" my position.
dan pg26
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Dan how can someone get ahold of you?
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I wonder if you would have been the great man you are today without the intervention your parents sought for you when you were 14. All life's experiences shape who we are today, the good ones and the bad ones.
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Instead of wasting $75,000 they could have gotten the same "character building" results you're talking about by simply holding him down and kicking him in the balls repeatedly while yelling at him about how bad he is.
Your "that which does not kill you makes you stronger" philosophy is bunk.
Hell, prison costs nothing. According to your logic, if he succeeded after prison, then prison was good for him. Helluva lot cheaper, too.
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Why are people so hung up on the cost? $75,000,$100,000 is nothing to some people. If people are not willing to pay that much the price will go down and level off at the point where the school is at or above capacity. The drug cartels in south america and elswhere are living large because we are willing to pay. If we stopped or slowed down the price would drop, the price of oil, same thing etc.
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OK, so I should have said "Instead of wasting their time..."
If that cash is nothing to you, I'll provide a P.O. Box where you can send it to me.
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Anon, you missed Dan's point entirely! He is saying he became a great man IN SPITE of being sent to HLA, and what he went thru there. You choose to NOT GET HIS POINT. And tell me one person that $75,000 - $100,000 does not mean anything to? MOST if not ALL of these parents who send their kids to these programs take out LOANS, or 2nd mortgages on their homes...or WORSE YET--get caught up in the REFERRAL BUSINESS to pay to have their kids in these programs! Kids in these programs do not all come from wealthy homes that have parents who can just fork over THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of dollars at the drop of a hat. They are desperate parents who go into life-long-debt...and these parents are manipulated too. NOT MAKING ANY EXCUSES for parents who send their kids to any programs; just saying--everyone pays the price for very POOR CHOICES! And the kids pay the highest price of all.
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Sorry you took it wrong (was'nt responding to Dan's post). My point is the money isnt a factor. If the programs charged $10.00 per week there would still be people who have to borrow money from family and friends to attend and at that rate ($10/week) the waiting list may be very long so some parents may call up and say they are willing to pay $12/Week if they could take their kid sooner so the new price would be $12/week and so on until it levels out at the price people are willing to pay. The consumers set the price, not the schools!!
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yeah dick actually i woulda ended up the great man i am today without hidden lake. and thanks for complimenting my greatness, i know im rad, but hop off the nuts. after hidden lake i was MORE fucked up, if anything can be responsible for my change, it would be meeting the love of my life, and realizing that if i wanted to be with her, i had to be the kind of person worth being with. that triggered alot of maturation, and made me look at my life compltely different. Hidden lake did not a shittin thing for me. i went in there a confused child and came out a fucking criminal. shit i did after hidden lake made my pre-HLA antics look like a joke.
anything else you want to say? i'm in a great college, on the way to law school, doing very well. I have a great family life, and my girlfriend/future fiance' is better looking then any girl from those porn magazines you steal from your dad, and has a personality that matches so basically, you take anything you have to say, lube yourself up real nice and stick it up your ass.
contact info: xthexartxofxruin@aim.com for robert bruce.
dan pg26
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Yeah right you are educated!
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fantastic comeback.
i'll make sure to mail you a copy of my juris doctorate as soon as i recieve it.
oh thats the term for a law degree just in case you didn't know.
dan pg26
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Anon perhaps you could pick a user name so we could more easily identify you. In the interm until you pick one ill refer to you as "Mrs. Grey" Im sure you can understand why. As to your comments, you like your name sake and several other HLA employees make the same assumptions over and over again:
1. We who attended HLA needed to be sent there in the first place.
As you know little to nothing about any of us other than what we allow you to know dont pretend to beleive we needed to be there without knowing the whole situation. Many inmates did not, myself among that group.
2. We who attended HLA benefited from being there.
Let me make this abundantly clear, I was fine before HLA I had nothing in my life with which I harmed either myself nor anyone around me including my family. I had no behavioral, emotional or sexual issues. I had no violent tendencies nor was I ever invloved in something illegal.
I left HLA with issues and scars that I never would have had otherwise. I was forced with the fact that there are people out there who will do anything to assert power over another person they percieve to be weaker then them, that there are people who no limits to their greed, nor what they are willing to say to ensure future wealth. I learned that greedy power hungry child abusing criminals are nothing more than hypocritical little cowards who cower in fear when faced with exposure and the truth and anyone willing to stand up to them.
Now why dont you ask me about the things I had to go through to learn these lessons, and then tell us more about how HLA made us good people.
Idiot.
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Hey, Robert. Nice to see you back again.
Thanks for picking up the yoke on this thread, as I am weary from the incessant trolling...
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Mr. Bruce you must have me confused with someone else. I am not a Mrs. Grey, whoever that is. I am not an employee of that school either. In addition, I have not posted all of the anonymous posts. It appears to be maybe 3 different anonymous posters, possibly more. It's hard to tell just how many.
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Again pick a name Mrs.Grey to make it easier. Either way as you seem to be the one I was directly responding to per your comments to Dan, I would say my comments still stand.
Dysfunction glad to be back and fighting the good fight a.k.a putting these retards in their place.
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It's Mrs Grey vs Karen in the ring tonight! A previous poster versus some unknown poster taking on each other in the war of words! :silly:
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personally, I think if you didn't live through exactly the experience of another person, you have no right to tell them anything. Nobody can tell me how hidden lake was for me, or whether I needed it. I didn't. Everything robert bruce has said about hidden lake is completely on the mark so there is no need for me to rehash.
dan pg 26
robert bruce, im me at cephalicnasum on AIM, id like to talk to you.
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On 2005-09-07 09:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It's Mrs Grey vs Karen in the ring tonight! A previous poster versus some unknown poster taking on each other in the war of words! :silly: "
Everyone loves a good cat-fight. What are the odds and who's taking bets?
Mrs. Grey is definitely more plodding, but very persistent. Karen is sharper, but vehemently resists differing opinion. It should be a good fight...
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:question: :wstupid: :wstupid: :flame: :idea: :roll:
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::jawdrop:: ::bump::
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i think no one should post anything without at lesat identifying who they are.
dan pg26 once again
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I'm with you dan.
Bari pg29.
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yea rite max, your just sad because you miss lanahan in shower three, south side, 5:30am lol
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Max- what were you there for? Didn't you get kicked out? Where are you going now?
:silly:
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Oh thank God someone as bright as you is going to be keeping the country safe.
Who are you to negate someone elses experiences. Should we tell Holocaust surviviors to "get over it"? No one on here discussing the atrocities committed by HLA is doing so as part of a "bitch fest" we do it to 1. Inform Parents who might be considering sending their child to HLA the reality of the situation there and 2. To dispell the propoganda put out by people like Mrs. Grey who would try and paint an entirley different picture of the school than what it really is.
This is not some sort of support group for survivors, its to let people know the truth.
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You know speaking of Mrs. Grey where is she? Shes so quiet now that she knows shes been caught committing a felony.
You know what they say Mrs. Grey, you can run but you cant hide. The consequences are coming for you soon.
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I don't have a reason to hide. I did not commit a felony. Subpeana me til the cows come home. I did nothing illegal. :roll:
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On 2005-10-27 03:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't have a reason to hide. I did not commit a felony. Subpeana me til the cows come home. I did nothing illegal. :roll: "
Well, at least you've finally admitted that you were hiding your identity. I guess that's a step toward doing the right thing.
Now if you could just stop trying to make kids suffer even more than they alredy have at the hands of your cronies, you'd really be on to something...
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hey dont worry about him he's not serious, he's an asshole. $100 says he was trashed when he wrote it.
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^mxkutch that is
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Oh thank God someone as bright as you is going to be keeping the country safe.
that is the most inteligent quote i have ever seen and by the way hla and the holocost are the exact same thing
so go fuck your self you fuckin dushebag
and yes i was drunk when i posted that last post as i am drunk now
and again go fuck your self you coward piece of shit
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***if a parent wants to send there kid to hla they are gona fuckin do it and ur bullshit post arnt gonna stop them
Don't you think we realize that? Some of us are just not as hopeless as you are. At the risk of sounding terribly rude, it sounds like they and possibly your parents, have done a number on you.
Chances are very good that parents will continue to send their kids away. Those parents will not be interested in the experiences shared here.
And then, once in a while, there comes along a desparate, but rational parent who will appreciate the insight.
You certainly are not required to particpate. What's the big deal? Have you considered the possibility that your anger toward HLA/your parents may be misdirected at other survivors who choose to speak out?
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Looks like you all are realy making an impact.
Check this out
http://www.thedahloneganugget.com/ (http://www.thedahloneganugget.com/)
In the search box type in HLA. You'll see well your efforts have paid off.
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Max your eloquent and well put argument although nothing but a series of incorherent rambelings and nonsensical statements has shown me the light. Why dont you reward yourself by topping off your glass and having another drink. You should be a real asset to our country on the front lines.
MRS. GRAY!!!! Youve crept out of the shadows, after insisting that you werent you...you sly little bullfrog. Listen you may be right, it may actualy be a misdeamonor, DAN would you happen to know? Did she committ a felony or a misdemeaner by releasing confidential information about a former student? Either way a crime is a crime Mrs. Gray, unless youd like to share where you got your information the consequences are forthcoming. See you soon Susie. :wave:
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On 2005-10-28 11:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Looks like you all are realy making an impact.
Check this out
http://www.thedahloneganugget.com/ (http://www.thedahloneganugget.com/)
In the search box type in HLA. You'll see well your efforts have paid off."
I wonder if Billy and Buch are going to operate this school legally. I mean the other ones sure didnt start out that way did they?
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There are no consequences. I have not committed any crime. I typed a first name. That was it. It is neither a misdemeanor nor a felony. In addition, HIPPA laws apply to businesses not individual people anyway. And I am neither a business owner nor an employee,nor do I have access to any confidential or non confidential files. I also am not even sure schools of that nature fall under HIPPA laws. According to the wording of the law it applies to health providers. I don't think the school falls under that catagory but it is irrevelant because I gave out no confidential info nor do I know any confidential. info. Feel free to live your little fantasy though. I find it quite amusing. :silly:
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http://visual-voyage.com/dahlonega/index.html (http://visual-voyage.com/dahlonega/index.html)
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Oh my goodness, they published students names, quick call the lawyers :rofl:
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i think its really fucked up that these people are allowing kids to suffer so much, most of them who dont deserve it, just so it can benefit society. in the long run, they are not benifitting society at all. every person (about 100+) i have been in contact or heard about that graduated from hla, is not doing anything to benefit society. they are hindering it by supporting drug dealers with their habits that hla didnt help them fix, but rather hide. if these kids wouldve spent their time at a place that wouldve actually helped them, rather than wasting it being miserable at hla, maybe they couldve learned to be outstanding citizens in the real world. not just help by picking up some trash, or visiting an old folks home.
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by the way robert, i assure you that max is topping of his glass right now, and i dont blame him, he's celebrating being out of that shithole, and i dont think that you could say anything to make him give a shit about you
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there is no place on the face of the earth that can help someone who does not want help. The kids that wanted help, got it. Those that didn't well, we all know the rest of that story
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As the old saying goes..."Wise is the man who having nothing intelligent to say refrains from speaking so as to not provide evidence to the fact." With that said...Mr. Kutch shut the fuck up. While your talking to your recruiter ask him what "admin sep." means. Although unfortunate, I'm quite certain you'll become familiar with the term shortly after your arrival at MCRD.
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"there is no place on the face of the earth that can help someone who does not want help. The kids that wanted help, got it. Those that didn't well, we all know the rest of that story"
that statement is 100% BULLSHIT. the week after i left HLA my parents made me go to a week long christian retreat. i was really pissed, and i wouldve refused to go, but i had just got pulled so it wouldve been stupid to get sent back over a matter of one week. anyways, i went to the camp and it was the best experience of my life, at first, i was totally against everything they were saying because i didnt even believe in god, but after leaving, just one week later, i was, and still am, a devoted christian. so dont you tell me that you cant change kids that dont want to change, thats just rediculous. 1 week of positive encouragement beat 10 months of "professional therapy"
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and as for max, he may not give a shit about much, but as his peer group member, i can tell you that he will do great things in the military, because he has heart. maybe if you had a little heart, you would try to help the kids so desperately in need of revival. THEIR RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.
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Again Max, your grace and eloquence knows no bounds, you truly are a warrior poet. You still havent answered my question though, what is your purpose in coming here?
MRS. GRAY again you fail to recognize that releasing information about a student is illegal. Why is this failing to register I wonder? You had to have gotten the information from somewhere. Did you know this student during his time at HLA? Or was it your contacts at HLA having poured through the files of former students trying desperatly to figure out who I am and cluing you into what you believed was my correct identity.
So how about it Mrs. Gray? We know you arent smart enough to have come up with this info on your own, so whod you get it from. Make it easier on yourself Mrs. Gray.
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Keep in mind that Max has serious drug and alcohol problems that HLA didn't begin to fix. He has ruined every possible avenue for himself, and the only choice now is the military. He won't make it there, though, once his substance abuse problems surface. He certainly has no academic future, as you can tell from his posts. (a classmate)
:silly:
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yea bullshit your his classmate, your a stupid fuck. because if you were his classmate you would know that he is extremely smart. he graduated high school already, with a 3.8. your a stupid fuck. and there are plenty of alcoholics that were great leaders in the miitary. know your shit before you start talking. dick
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Yeah, Joe. He's a real brain trust, just like you. That's why his life is turning out so well. He couldn't even cut it at HLA. That's sad.
:silly:
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Someone's spelling is not an indication of intelligence. More than likely Max either has dyslexia, or just doesn't care how he types on here. Some very intelligent folks have dyslexia so it is nothing to be ashamed of.
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What a joke- everyone who scores anything above basic literacy gets college mail from top schools. How do you think they keep their selectivity ratings so high? Because stupid little shits like you think you are appealing to them. Oh, let's see- didn't you get kicked out of just about every school in Dallas? Didn't you repeatedly fail at controlling your alcohol problem? Max does have learning differences-but he got kicked out of the schools that could have helped with that. At least that's what he reported in group. Good luck in the Marines.
:silly:
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Max why would you even try and suggest you know something about a person youve never met? As you have no clue what I am currently doing with my life or have done with my life since leaving HLA. Nor do you know the reasons for me being sent to HLA why dont you just keep quiet about the whole thing. Better yet why not stick to things you actualy know something about, although that greatly limits the subjects you could discuss it would make the world a better place.
You still havent answered my question, why are you here?
Mrs. Gray still waiting on you as well.
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"Yeah, Joe. He's a real brain trust, just like you. That's why his life is turning out so well. He couldn't even cut it at HLA. That's sad."
first of all, you dont know me, so how can you insult my intelligence? secondly, he went to hla for 10 1/2 months and never went to RCI, you call that not cutting it? very few ppl have done that. you need to get ur facts straight dipshit
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"everyone who scores anything above basic literacy gets college mail from top schools."
what the hell are you talking about? no they dont. this is probly hornsteins gay ass or something, why dont you grow some balls and tell us who you are
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Well, I just can't understand why Max isn't enrolling at Duke or Stanford instead of going into the Marines? I'm sure the top schools were just begging. What an upstanding young man. Look, the kid may mean well and have some underlying basic smarts, but he is totally fucked up- has been for years. He told me he got arrested almost as soon as he got out of HLA. That's real progress and real Stanford material.
:silly:
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Why are we even talking about this kid? He's not hurting anyone with his drunken rambelings. Lets stay focused on the real issues, the crimes committed by HLA.
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[ This Message was edited by: Jarhead6 on 2006-01-25 10:57 ]
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Kutch- You haven't seen your alcohol abuse affect your life negatively? What about being taken by escorts to HLA? Getting kicked out of school? Getting arrested? Hurting your family?
You think the Marines will be FUN? Let us know how that works out for you.
Scores on standardized tests won't get you shit- you also need to be able to show some character and a consistent educational path. Don't think you have that, son. Besides being kicked out of the learning differences school, you weren't exactly cutting it at one of the worst schools in Dallas, were you? And where did you finish up high school- some alternative school for jerk-offs like you. Stanford is going to beating down your door.
:silly:
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what the fuck are yall all on his back for, what the hell do you care whether he does good or not? dont you have your own fuckin life to take care of? none of you have lead a great life obviously, if youve done something to get yourself sent to hla. so how about you stop judging others. let him who is without sin cast the first stone. if max is wrong, he'll know it soon enough. let him figure it out on his own, your not his fucking parents
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[ This Message was edited by: Jarhead6 on 2006-01-25 10:57 ]
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Max I have no need to judge you, you are transparent. Further no one on here is bitching and moaning but you, everyone else here is here to help others. I dont think you can say the same.
Again though we are paying attention to something not worth paying attention to. Of course there are those on this board who would prefer it that way, specifically I mean those who do not know how to hide an IP address irregardless of what screen name they hide behind.
Lets focus on the real issue, not Max, he isnt important.
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mxkutch,
i hope that in five years you are not still seeking an outlet for venting your obvious seething anger. some talk about it, some join the military and blow up innocents. with any luck, more violence, control and coercion will show you that there are other, more humane ways to help those who are not yet at peace with themselves and the world.
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HLA staff member, dont make the assumption that he is angry.
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[ This Message was edited by: Jarhead6 on 2006-01-25 10:58 ]
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kutch,
just think... you can look forward to being just like Jarhead in a few years. isn't that exciting?
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[ This Message was edited by: Jarhead6 on 2006-01-25 10:58 ]
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On 2005-10-31 12:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Kutch- You haven't seen your alcohol abuse affect your life negatively? What about being taken by escorts to HLA? Getting kicked out of school? Getting arrested? Hurting your family?
You think the Marines will be FUN? Let us know how that works out for you.
Scores on standardized tests won't get you shit- you also need to be able to show some character and a consistent educational path. Don't think you have that, son. Besides being kicked out of the learning differences school, you weren't exactly cutting it at one of the worst schools in Dallas, were you? And where did you finish up high school- some alternative school for jerk-offs like you. Stanford is going to beating down your door."
Before you take your toys and go home, Maxie, answer this other Anon's questions, please.
:silly:
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You peeps is trippin first off thats good that Max is doing some real shit with his life you know let em do what he gotta do second....Jarhead is a high respected man, honest and real Anon so watch your mouth dawg forreal you speakin out your ass so know your shit before you run your shit Holla
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In my experience, nobody but maybe a sailor can drink like a Marine and still be on spot, fresh as a daisey first thing in the morning.
All we ask is to be let alone.
-- Jefferson Davis (1808-1889): First Message to the Confederate Congress, March,1861.
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:wave:
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Good luck, young man, and keep your wits about you. I think it's about the most fucked up thing I've read on here that your drinkin' buddies turned escort and took you to HLA.
A multitude of laws in a country is like a great number of physicians, a sign of weakness and malady.
--Voltaire, philosopher (1694-1778)
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its really a shame this board has turned into alumni attacking each other as well as anyone attacking each other.
come the fuck on people.
max, some people take awhile to deal with shit. im over hla, its been five years but i still agree with robert bruce's efforts to take it down.
i respect that your going into the service. everyone fucks up, everyone does really bad shit, but not everyone ends up right.
i for one, ended up on heroin and homeless. now im in a top 200 college, pre law, and doing fantastically. i hope everyone gets their shit together.
and stop bashing each other people, its really lame, really really lame.
dan pg 26
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mxkutch,
in case you've forgotten your comments (attacks on) your fellow survivors, i have taken the liberty to copy them below.
in case you didn't notice, this is a forum for survivors to tell their stories.
in case you didn't notice the irony... you state that you have 'gotten over it', yet you took the time to bitch and moan about other people 'bitching and moaning'.
so what's the deal big boy? are you really over it, or is your bitching and moaning somehow different?
you admit that hla did nothing for you. perhaps the only thing that did work for you was the conditioning- any negative comments about the program will be consequenced.
here are your comments and my responses:
yall are fuckin ridiculous, my god we all know hla sucked, but so fuckin what get on with ur life
as i have said on another post, yall suck and need to get on with ur life. yeah we all know that hla sucked while we were there, yeah it might be a bad school and yeah we dont wish it apon others, but so fuckin what how can yall constantly bitch and moan. shit give up already
HOW DO YOU EXPECT TO BE TREATED WHEN THAT IS YOUR INTRODUCTION? HOW DID YOU DEDUCE THAT OTHERS HAVE NOT 'GOTTEN ON WITH THEIR LIVES'? FYI, YOU DON'T WALK INTO A GROUP AND START ATTACKING. IF YOU NOTICE IT'S NOT WHERE YOU WANT TO BE, YOU LEAVE. THAT WAS A REAL OPTION FOR YOU MX, AND I'D REALLY LIKE TO KNOW WHY YOU DIDN'T TAKE THAT OPTION.
now to the point, yeah we all know that hla sucked while we were there, yeah and no one in their right mind would wish that apon another human being, but it helped some people, dont get me wrong the therapy deff. didnt help me, but im sure that some one who went to hla was glad that they went there. i know its a waist of money and i could have been educated in the penal system for much cheaper but the time i spent at hla was not worthless. for one i made some good friends and i took experiance from it. i am a different person now that i have conqured the obstcle of hla
HAVE THEY CONVINCED YOU THAT HLA IS A GREAT PLACE FOR SOME PEOPLE, BUT IT DIDN'T WORK FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE JUST TOO BAD ASS? IT MATTERS NOT THAT THERE MAY BE SOMEONE WHO IS 'GLAD THEY WENT THERE'. WHAT RATIONAL DOES THAT SUPPORT? A FEW PEOPLE ARE GLAD THEY WENT THERE SO, EVERYONE ELSE STFU?
by the way robert u are a pussy
by the way u are a fuckin faggot who is stuck in the past if a parent wants to send there kid to hla they are gona fuckin do it and ur bullshit post arnt gonna stop them they are just going to sho every one how fuckin ignorant and fuckin gay u are and again u are a fuckin pussy Robert
STUCK IN THE PAST? IF YOU DON'T HAVE A HORSE IN THIS RACE, THEN GO TO ANOTHER TRACK. AND STOP DELUDING YOURSELF INTO BELIEVING THAT YOU ARE SOMEHOW BETTER THAN THE OTHER POSTERS HERE. WE ALL GOT ROOTS TO THE PAST, INCLUDING YOU MX.
u are my boy fellow peer group member and i could care less about these ignorant fucks who just like bitching and moaning fuck you have been out of hla for a while i guess so get the fuck over it. you can be informational with out being a complete dushebag so i tip my glass you robert and say go fuck yourself
ALL THESE PEOPLE. IS THAT YOUR COWARDLY WAY OF AVOIDING DIRECT CONFRONTATION WITH THOSE YOU FEEL ARE BITCHING AND MOANING DUSHEBAGS?
INFORMATIONAL WITHOUT BEING A COMPLETE DUSHEBAG?
HUM, ALMOST DIVULGED YOUR THOUGHTS. BUT 'ALL OF US' DUSHEBAGS STILL DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM. WAY TOO VAGUE. WHO, WHAT? WHO DO YOU CONSIDER TO BE A DOUSHEBAG (SURELY NOT EVERYONE HERE), AND WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER INFORMATIONAL?
i also dont need to be a "truly are a warrior poet" poet to call you a dushe bag. so again i tip my glass to you robert and go fuck yourself
i am makeing something of myself and you are a washed up piece of shit who post on a website under no name just to bitch and moan because ur parents sent you to a thereputic boarding school
so how bout yall stop being ignorat fucks and just shut the fuck up.
IS THAT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT MX? LET US ALL RECOGNIZE YOU FOR MAKING SOMETHING OF YOURSELF. AS FOR YOUR COMMENT THAT OTHERS HAVEN'T? WELL, IF YOU'D BOTHERED TO READ THIS FORUM YOU'D KNOW HOW INACCURATE THAT COMMENT IS. BUT THEN YOUR GOAL WAS NEVER TO BE "INFORMATIONAL WITHOUT BEING A DUSHEBAG", WAS IT?
yall need to stop bitching and moaning. from the looks of your post yall must have left hla many years ago. also if someone wants to get information about a school they should talk to a more qualified person than an anonymous poster who just sits at home and crys all day about how his parents sent him away then follows it up with a cutting session. so agian fuck all of you, yall are doushe bags
FUCK ALL OF YOU, YA'LL ARE DOUSHE BAGS? A QUALIFIED PERSON? THERE ARE LEGITIMATE REASONS FOR PEOPLE TO POST ANONYMOUSLY. NOT YOUR CALL BIG BOY!!!
robert you have never met me either and i am just judging you from your former post as i assume you are doing to me. i am on this website to critizie all of you who cant get over the fact that your parents sent you to a theapeutic boarding school. so get over it and stop bitching and moaning.
HOW BOUT YOU GET OVER THE FACT THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE SOME THINGS TO SAY. AND IN CASE YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED, IT IS NOT YOUR ROLE IN LIFE TO ORDER PEOPLE AROUND, OR MAKE VALUE JUDGMENTS ON WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO DO OR HOW THEY SPEND THEIR TIME, OR WHAT THEY FEEL IS USEFUL TO SHARE. YOU, MX ARE NOT OVER IT. YOU ARE JUST BITCHING ABOUT OTHERS BITCHING.
im not important to your bitch fest so i am thew with this website
hope yall have a fun life
and i also hope that in five years from now u arent still on this site bitching and moaning about shit that dosnt matter
NO, YOU'RE NOT IMPORTANT TO THE 'BITCH FEST'. YOU JUST TAKE UP BANDWIDTH WITH YOUR ARROGANT ATTACKS AND BITCHING ABOUT OTHERS 'BITCHING'. NOW THAT IS REALLY VALUABLE. NOT. BOTTOM LINE, I'M GONNA GUESS THAT YOU REALLY NEED TO FEEL IN CONTROL OF SOMETHING. YOU COULD START WITH GETTING CONTROL OF YOUR ARROGANCE? AND YOUR INDIRECT WAY OF SEEKING ATTENTION BY COMING OFF AS THE BAD ASS.
I'M ALSO GONNA GUESS THAT IN YOUR HEART OF HEARTS, YOU ARE NOT OVER THE FACT THAT YOUR PARENTS SENT YOU TO SADISTIC STRANGERS TO BE 'FIXED'. BUT TO GRIEVE THE LOSS OF ANY MEANINGFUL RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM, JUST WOULDN'T BE BAD ASS. IT WOULD REQUIRE YOU TO FEEL VULNERABLE. BASED ON YOUR CHOICES, I'M GUESSING FURTHER THAT THAT IS DIFFICULT FOR YOU. AND THAT'S WHERE I CAN FEEL SOME COMPASSION FOR YOU. I HOPE YOU GET THROUGH THE MILITARY WITH YOUR LIFE IN TACT AND A DEEPER PERSPECTIVE ON LIFE. YOU DIDN'T COMPLY WITH THE RULES AT HLA, HOW 'WILL' YOU DEAL WITH THE RULES IN THE MILITARY? MIGHT THEY ACTUALLY BE MORE REASONABLE THAN HLA?
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jesus christ, how long did you spend writing that post? did max really get to you that much, good god, hes talking out of a bottle. this website is just a source of a good laugh to him. stop wasting your time trying to get through to him with that therapeutic crap. youve gotta be a counselor. arent you? i seriously doubt that max stayed awake long enough to read that whole thing. i hardly could and im not even drunk. get a fucking life man(or woman)
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True True
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Well,
It's been about 6 months since I left HLA, and I just got on this forum thing. First of all, as a fellow peer group 71 member, I fully support what Max, and *ahem* JoeDirt, have to say. I'm not mad at the people at HLA who made my time horrible there, I forgive them. But all I have to say is Karma, because it will come around in the end. And I know Max and JD, they were my best friends at HLA, and they are good people at heart (even if max gets angry when he's had a few :flame: ) and they mean well. Also, I know who you are Jarhead, and I would like to say that I respected you more than any other counselor in that school, because you treated the kids with maturity, unlike the newbie rookie staff counselors who only gave out restrictions. Again, This is WILL MULDER PG 71. If you know me, call me or email/IM me (630)779-1017 or Wetwill151@aol.com
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Will whats up ic KC How you doing dawg you out of HLA?
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will your the man, by the way i dont care if yall know who i am i kinda forgot yall didnt, im aj toce, pg 71, currently taking my loonnng may break ahahah
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okay, i'm hearing all these new names... i was in PG 54, Aften Thurston. anyways, it really wasnt as bad as all you make it out to be. i was always on restrictions, and all that jazz, but it still didn't suck quite as much as i've read. anyways, this is such a bitch fest... look at the good points of it; and if you can't find them, then obviously you are still HOLDING ON... not LETTING GO. c'mon... workshops?? lol but really, move on, see the light, and I'm sure you can find at least one or two good things you got out of it... yeh, there are bad ones too, and they are much easier to see, but be optimistic!!!
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Ok well I went to HLA as well, in the same PG with AJ Will and MAx. All of you who are saying shit to them should just shut up because all you know of them is what you assume from the internet. I KNOW them and they are all three great people with big hearts and they WILL suceed in life if they want to, and i'm sure they do. So stop talking crap to them, cause its not fair to judge when you dont know the person at all.
I agree with these boys (pg 71 love, haha)that HLA sucked, but people should just get over it. Its over, dont live in the past. Be happy with what you have now, and if you cant be, change things. Ya only have one life, so dont dwell on the bad things. T
rue, HLA did not help me, but it was an experience in my life and I learned. That is all ya can do. It doesnt help to be bitter. Yall need to take the past and use it to make your future better.
I would tell ANYONE that there kids should not go to HLA, becuase i dont think the place helps kids most of the time. I know what they were trying to do, but they werent doing it, though they said they were. The place was bad, but it could have been worse. That said, it could have been a whole lot better. But I say that not from a bitter and resentful point of veiw, but as pretty objective.
I dont let HLA bother me. I'm not there anymore. I use that experience as a learning one, and its over now. Sure, i thikn about it every once in a while, but being mad or sad about it only brings me down and i really just dont care that much anymore..
All yall who went there, just live your life now. Be happy. Dont dwell on this shit. Theres no point to write on a message board, thats just living in the past. You say you are here because you want parents to not send there kids there- well say it and be done with it. It's over. It's NOT that big of a deal, in the big scheme of things. Talk about productive things, not all this crap. And DO productive things. Dont sit on your ass and type about something that happened to you a while ago.
I love all you PG 71 members, and one counselor. And I dont need to say who he is. Yall can IM me whenever, I'd love to hear from anyone I knew at HLA. Loungepatrol@aim.
And I am proud of all you three boys!! These people who are talking shit on here dont know anything. I hope yall keep doing well!! Please keep in touch yall, and anyone else!
Love
Pippa[ This Message was edited by: Pip on 2005-11-08 13:42 ]
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HLA does wonders for some kids, even though it may take a while for them to admit it. you grow from every experience, and get something out of it. even the negitive things, in all relativity, are positive. maybe my views come because of a few special people or maybe they come on my own... but because of that experience, i know myself much better, allowing me to let others in. Everyone who knows me, knows that Nanette was, and still is my role model. even though recent events have taken place, i still model my life in some ways after she and Cathy. i love them so damn much... i learned more through them than i ever could have... although my counslers sucked wicked bad... there were good people there. (you notice i say WERE) it's not the place that makes it something, it's the people.
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[ This Message was edited by: Jarhead6 on 2006-01-25 11:00 ]
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thank you... who are you? email me aftenthurston@yahoo.com
although i was a student there, i am a supporter of HLA in many many ways...
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If anybody cares, this is just one of the quotes from the website:
"Two Masters?-level Counselors are assigned to a Peer Group and remain with that Peer Group throughout the entire therapeutic program"
It's a big fat lie. I'm the parent of a kid who "graduated." He had at LEAST 6 or 7 different counselors (not all Masters'-level.) I really don't know how they can get away with printing this.
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Aften said:
even the negitive things, in all relativity, are positive.
So, with that logic, within all positive experiences would also be negative?
Sounds like you have found a philosophy that works for you, that allows you to accept your time there. That's great, but it's not your place to evaluate others' perceptions of the experience. Everything IS relative. And unlike HLA taught you, there's more than one way to perceive and interpret things.
Has it occured to you that your experience may have been better because you had two (lesbian?) allies who made your time there more enjoyable/tolerable?
Again, that is fine and good, but the fact that it 'could've been worse' doesn't justify your attempt to dictate to others what and how they should communicate. I am curious as to why it bothers you and Pip that others speak their mind.. something they were not allowed to do while at HLA. I've heard that it is easier for the girls. Might that be true?
Change can't and won't happen until problems are identified. Problems aren't identified if people don't talk about them. I assume that the 'positive' things were not problems. So, why would it be the goal of this forum or the participants to speak only of the 'positive'?
HLA lied to parents on a regular basis. They played child against parent. That is unethical and needs to be exposed, along with anything else that is unethical or questionable. Doesn't matter if there were a few good staff or a few good memories. The whole picture needs to be viewed, not small slices that you recall as positive.
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[ This Message was edited by: Jarhead6 on 2006-01-25 11:00 ]
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Ight check it The whole webpage is a lie I had 4 different counselers and the web page does not show
special reels
restrictions
ridge creek
special interventions
reels with BILL WHITE (bitch ass)
fall out
ect ect
Aften your full of shit man HLA did not do shit accept the very few people that helped me there and they all left so AFTEN shut your mouth man "supporter of HLA" get the hell out here dawg 4real
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I have the right to express my beliefs of things, just as everyone else does. Everything was not all great and perfect there, but people have the tendencies of focusing on the bad, not the good, in things. If you open yourself to change and acceptance, than that is what you get...
and why does the fact that my "allies" were two lesbians? what matter does that make??
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Of course, you can express your beliefs and experience. It's your right, as it is others. It is not your right or duty to tell others what to put their attention on, or that what they choose to share is negative. That goes beyond expressing beliefs and experience into making a value judgment and critcism. That was the point. If what they choose to share offends your sensibilities, you also have the right to ignore what you find unpleasant.
Fact is, people will put their attention where they determine it is best put until they choose to put it elsewhere. Having a bad experience and sharing about it, is not necessarily 'living in the past'. Sometimes it is necessary to resolve issues of the past. That's my belief.
No matter about your 'allies'. It's great that you had them. Just figured that could've been a factor in your acceptance/ tolerance of being incarcerated. I would think it would be easier than being told your preference was some form of mental illness, or having your peers giving you shit about it.
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what im saying is dont dwell on the past. learn from it and make changes so things are positive in the future. its all up to you, no one else at all. you say you are on here to do something- if you really want to change HLA and places like it, go to court or do something REAL. posting on here wont do too much.
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oh sorry that was me, pippa....the above ^^^ oh and who is the anonomys person i am responding to...why wont people say there names? I dont ghet it..
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Im not criticizing anyone on here. i do believe that everyone should express how they feel. i am just pointing out that i had a somewhat positive experience at HLA.
I did get constantly critized for my sexual preference, too. Nanette did console me in many events, but it didn't make it tons easier.
To each his own... everything has flaws, including everyone.
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oh i was talking to anonomous, not aften. sorry..i agree with you aften i think and also with my three pg boys
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it's all good... i can see both sides of the spectrum, i just choose to stick with a more positive one... i think that's just part of me though. i view everyting as a learning experience. =)
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yah, you just have to determine if it was positive or negitive. any situation could be positive, no matter how "bad". its allllll persepective, and the key to being happy is to see even "bad" experiences as good and to learn from them...kinda like the whole glass half empty or half full deal.
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I most definently agree with you... i'll go with looking at the cup half full, as everyone has probably began to see up here.
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I most definently agree with you... i'll go with looking at the cup half full, as everyone has probably began to see up here.
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Would you tell a victim of child abuse "hey look at the bright side"? Would you tell a rape victim "there's always a silver lining?" HLA made us more jaded. It was a life experience that we learned from, but should we thank HLA for the lesson? I for one would have chosen not to have had the abuse. [ This Message was edited by: RobertBruce on 2005-11-09 22:04 ]
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To each his own... in a way you could look at it as abuse, but on the flip side, you could look at it as a learning experience. I find it absolutly absurd that you can even begin to compare HLA to a rape or abuse victim.
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Given that you have no idea what RB experienced, is your comment appropriate? While he may have 'learned' something from the experience, it doesn't justify any abuse he endured, physical or psychological.
While you may not have been abused, others allege they were. Where do you draw the line? How far might abuse be taken under the guise of learning and therapy?
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Are you going to claim that no student was ever abused there? How about just mistreated can you call it that? What about being held prisoner? How do any of those sit with you?
If you went through any of it would you trade the knowledge you learned from it, for never having the experience to begin with?
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no, actually i would not ever want to trade the experience of HLA for anything. Maybe people should re-evaluate the way they acted there, and then maybe they would understand better the reasons they were so miserable there. Hmm... there's some food for thought, eh? Maybe YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE in many ways!
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That comment is baffling!
What could you possibly have learned that would make you not want to trade the experience for ANYTHING?
What did you 'get' that you deserved?
But then maybe it was good training for a wanna-be police officer.
Hopefully you learned that it's wrong to incarcerate and hold people incommunicado without just cause and due process.
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Let's just say that over all it was a good experience, and i wouldn't trade it. it was good for me... and i will be a damn good police officer... and be fair, because, yes, i do know how to deal with certain situations.
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Youre making assumptions about people you dont know.
You have no idea how each individual namely for this conversation, myself acted while there. Since you dont know how we acted, how can you claim that we brought the misery upon ourselves?
What did we DO to deserve the treatment we recieved from the staff there?
Do you know the crimes of each and every student ever sent there? Do you know if every single one of them needed that sort of enviornment?
Because HLA helped you, does that translate to it helping every student who ever came through?
Judging by these message boards I would say you happen to be in the minority.
Did the jews in concentration camps deserve to be sent there? Did their actions while there legitimize the treatment they recieved?
Is it okay for HLA to be a means to its own end?
Get back to me on these.
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Clearly most of you didn't learn the meaning of the word empathy. Aften appears to be exercising her ability (and right) to voice independent thought. Did you attempt to empathize with her before bashing her? Has anyone considered her experiences or viewpoints? I imagine you were real prizes in reals. As for her "wanabe police officer" status? Wow, I guess that fits into this boards "when in doubt let's demean, demoralize, and disarm" philosophy of quieting the opposition. If you can't agree to disagree you could consider letting it go? Very cheap shot against Aften.
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To respond to the child abuse question- yes. I was abused as a child and I can tell you now that I have learned from it and it has brought me to who I am now, and I love who I am. I would not go back and change that experience, because I know so much more than others my age beacause of it. there is always a bright side, and being negitive about bad things in your life only brings YOU down. I guess you have to just do it to understand..
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and HLA didnt help me, i helped me. You couldve done it too. ITS ALL A CHOICE!
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Known lots of people who chose to focus only on the 'positve'. What I noticed was they didn't deal very well when a harsh reality slapped them in the face.
Not a thing in the world wrong with choosing to view your abuse as a learning experience. No one here said anything about the choice to do so. The argument was about people telling other people that they should be 'positive', talk about the good, and forget the negative. If you're going to preach your philosophy, you can expect to hear others opinions who find proseletizing offensive.
Why do other people's choices bother them? Is it a reminder that all was not well? If they need to focus only on the positive, perhaps this is not the place for them to be. Just a thought.
Trying to understand her experience and viewpoints. They just seem to change depending on who she speaks to.
Examples:
I'm most definently not saying that HLA is the best of places to be, for I would never wish to go there, but I just don't see how people make it out to be as horrendous as some do. I didn't have a pleasurable stay there;
i was always on restrictions, and all that jazz, but it still didn't suck quite as much as i've read. anyways, this is such a bitch fest... look at the good points of it; and if you can't find them, then obviously you are still HOLDING ON... not LETTING GO. c'mon... workshops??
[Is this an example of being empathetic to others views and experience???? How can she, or anyone, claim that someone else's experience wasn't as bad as they say it was???]
then:
actually i would not ever want to trade the experience of HLA for anything.
but in the long run, i did learn a lot
then:
learned that I did benefit slightly from the experience.
counslers sucked wicked bad
academics were wicked easy
i learned NOTHING in there
most definently not saying that the academics are very good
constantly critized for my sexual preference
Staff did engage in relationships with students on occasions though
*****
Still trying to figure out what made it the experience of a lifetime? Academics were inadequate, criticized for sexual preference, counselors sucked, staff engaged in relationships with their charges, etc. etc. Seems the only 'postive' experience was with the lesbian allies. Again, that's all well and good- no judgment.
The police officer comment was not intended as a bash or a cheap shot. Sincere comment and primarily re: the reality of the program. I don't know why Aften was incarcerated, but there are many who should not have been there, if anyone ever should be. Some are pissed about that and will be pissed until they are done being pissed. And in the long run, that may be the healthier route. Time will tell. Stick to what works for you. Don't project it onto everyone else. That's all.
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On 2005-11-10 16:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Clearly most of you didn't learn the meaning of the word empathy. Aften appears to be exercising her ability (and right) to voice independent thought. Did you attempt to empathize with her before bashing her? Has anyone considered her experiences or viewpoints? I imagine you were real prizes in reals. As for her "wanabe police officer" status? Wow, I guess that fits into this boards "when in doubt let's demean, demoralize, and disarm" philosophy of quieting the opposition. If you can't agree to disagree you could consider letting it go? Very cheap shot against Aften."
You must be a counsoler. No one is bashing Aften, yet even if they were why are you so quick to come to her defense but ignore Aften discounting the abuse we suffered at the hands of your fellow employees? I mean this would not be acceptable in reals would it? Discounting someone elses feelings and opinions? Oh silly me I forgot its been so long since Ive been there. Its okay to try and invalidate someone elses thoughts feelings or opinion so long the staff members of HLA find the statement to be bad or wrong. If a statement such as Aftens seems to fall in line with HLA approved thought-anyone who so much as questions it is obviously attacking and is need of correction.
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On 2005-11-10 17:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To respond to the child abuse question- yes. I was abused as a child and I can tell you now that I have learned from it and it has brought me to who I am now, and I love who I am. I would not go back and change that experience, because I know so much more than others my age beacause of it. there is always a bright side, and being negitive about bad things in your life only brings YOU down. I guess you have to just do it to understand.."
Right...learning something from the experience does not automaticaly make it a postive one now does it?
A woman who is raped might learn afterwards not to walk alone at night. Good lesson right? Still doesnt make it a positive experience.
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On 2005-11-10 17:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"and HLA didnt help me, i helped me. You couldve done it too. ITS ALL A CHOICE!"
Couldnt have said it better, Ive made a similar statement many times. Doesnt change the fact that many kids never needed to be there in the first place, and didnt as Aften claims "deserve what they got."
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"Why do other people's choices bother them? Is it a reminder that all was not well? If they need to focus only on the positive, perhaps this is not the place for them to be. Just a thought.
Trying to understand her experience and viewpoints. They just seem to change depending on who she speaks to."
Point taken. After reading your post I can see where I was a little hasty in mine.
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the responce to the child abuse thing was me PIP and this is me too. I never said to forget the negitive. I said used the negitive to make it positive.
The child abuse was not 'positive' but i make it positive everyday with the things ive learned. i am glad i went through it b/c it made me who i am and will motivate and drive me to do what i want to do with my life.
About harsh reality slapping someone in the face, you are wrong. People who are positive about things usually deal with things better because they have hope and faith and know how to look at the good things. The harsh realities you speak of could throw anyone for az loop, but a positive person will be able to handle it better in my opinion.
being pissed doesnt change shit, just makes things worse. you shouldnt watse so much time on something you cant change.Know that something was bad, and take that "anger" and make it in to motivation to do better.
Oh and the ITS ALL A CHOICE thing was me too...haha sorry!
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***being pissed doesnt change shit, just makes things worse. you shouldnt watse so much time on something you cant change.
You'd be mistaken if you don't think that programs and parents read these forums and that changes haven't ocurred due to comments made by people who were 'pissed' about their 'treatment', parents and kids.
There are many who have been hurt by the industry, who are 'pissed' about it, who have very productive lives and choose to speak out about the attrocities that would otherwise be unknown to the general public.
And if you read all the forums here you'd know that there is much more going on than talking/ 'bitch fests'.
May not be your cup of tea. For others, it's not a waste of time. It's as important as discussing the realities of racism, or poverty, or any other social ill. And it doesn't 'bring us down'.
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being angry is not what put yall on here. you used the anger to drive you to write on here, or to work hard, or wheatever..
All I'm saying is you should simply say parents shouldnt sent their kids therr . i agree. but dont sit around dwelling on how much your life sucked b/c of hla. DO SOMETHING!!!!
I think we are arguing two different points
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meaning about two different subjects if i wasnt clear--oh and its pip and the one above is me too
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Are you directing this to any particular person, a group of people, or everyone?
don't sit around dwelling on how much your life sucked b/c of hla
It's possible that we are arguing different points. I'm quiet certain we are not operating with the same definitions or philosophy.
You are making many assumptions about people's motivations and intentions without clarifying.
What would you have others DO? What would they have to DO so you no longer have to dwell on them "sitting around dwelling on how much their life sucked b/c of hla"?
Kinda a lost cause. If HLA couldn't 'change' them, do you think your pleas will? People come to their peace in their own time. Not something they can be coerced to do. A law of nature.
Why not start a thread for happy memories and avoid the others? Seems a workable solution.
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its not about happy memories, i have very few at hla. ita about looking back and seeing what i have done for myself. when i say do something i mean with your life-productive.,
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and how do you know we arent. Because we want to see HLA exposed it means all we do day in and day out is sit at home wasting our lives dwelling on how memories of HLA.
Again you make to many assumptions about people you dont know.
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ok whatever i think this argument is dumb, so i'm over it. i dont want to have any conflict that is not necisary in my life, and this is totally trivial in the big scheme of things.
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Translation
"I said something really stupid that I cant back up and I shouldnt have said it to begin with. So now that Ive lost the point Im going to pretend Im above the entire conversation."
Thanks for clearing that up dear.
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HLA brings both positive and negative memories, however, the positve and negitive both induce learning. everyone is so quick to knock HLA when in reality, obviously there was a reason you were sent there, and maybe you evaluate that situation,as well as what may have happened to you, or how you would have turned out without being at HLA. even if you wont admit it, you would more than likley be a whole lot worse off without being pulled from your home environment and placed in a more controlled atmosphere.
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On 2005-11-11 14:22:00, aftenthurston wrote:
"HLA brings both positive and negative memories, however, the positve and negitive both induce learning. everyone is so quick to knock HLA when in reality, obviously there was a reason you were sent there, and maybe you evaluate that situation,as well as what may have happened to you, or how you would have turned out without being at HLA. even if you wont admit it, you would more than likley be a whole lot worse off without being pulled from your home environment and placed in a more controlled atmosphere."
Again you assume things you cannot possibly know. What if the reason we sent there was bullshit? What if we were kept there illegally because the staff members knew you didnt belong there but to allow you to leave would constitute admitting you never needed to be there in the first place. What if you would have been awhole lot better off having never gone there? What if that time in your life that you lost would have better spent doing other things? What if all you took from there was an understanding that some people will do and say anything to control others and to steal peoples money.
Would it still be a positive experience then? Did you still need to be sent there? Are you still a better person for having gone there? Would you be worse off if you hadnt?
Dont assume things about people you dont know, nor should you assume that I am the only one who was sent there and remained there under similar circumstances.
Oh and again since you werent listening the first time, just because you learn something doesnt make it a positive experience.
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dont fucking say that to me. I DONT WANT TO FUCKING FIGHT ANYMORE. just because i am a bigger person, dont put me down. i still stand by what i said, im just not gonna waste my life fighting on the internet. Ok thanks.
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actually i was sent there for no reason and what you said basically is me. and i still found the positive., it is possible. who cares about this? why dont we just stop talking about it. its pointless. we can agree to disagree cus this is dumb
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you can make negitive exp. into vpositive by learning something. stop being so biter, it only brings you down. get over it and make something of your life instead of talking about the past
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On 2005-11-11 20:26:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"
On 2005-11-11 14:22:00, aftenthurston wrote:
"HLA brings both positive and negative memories, however, the positve and negitive both induce learning. everyone is so quick to knock HLA when in reality, obviously there was a reason you were sent there, and maybe you evaluate that situation,as well as what may have happened to you, or how you would have turned out without being at HLA. even if you wont admit it, you would more than likley be a whole lot worse off without being pulled from your home environment and placed in a more controlled atmosphere."
Again you assume things you cannot possibly know. What if the reason we sent there was bullshit? What if we were kept there illegally because the staff members knew you didnt belong there but to allow you to leave would constitute admitting you never needed to be there in the first place. What if you would have been awhole lot better off having never gone there? What if that time in your life that you lost would have better spent doing other things? What if all you took from there was an understanding that some people will do and say anything to control others and to steal peoples money.
Would it still be a positive experience then? Did you still need to be sent there? Are you still a better person for having gone there? Would you be worse off if you hadnt?
Dont assume things about people you dont know, nor should you assume that I am the only one who was sent there and remained there under similar circumstances.
Oh and again since you werent listening the first time, just because you learn something doesnt make it a positive experience. "
i believe that is a load of bullshit. you sound like an early earth element student. nobody is sent there for no reason, and if you truly believe that you were, then i am to believe you are dillusional
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have u ran away laetly and drank any bad water - like ur dumbass did at rci, u stupid fuck. didn't even listen to ur survival training did u asshole?
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excuse me? do you even know if i ever went to rci? and no, i did not drink bad water... thanks for the dumbass remark, considering i am not by any means at a lack for intelligence. i guess you just cannot accept when you have lost a debate... who are you anyways??? can't post who you are, eh?
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wasn't talking to or about u aften - was leaving a note for that loser named kc. mr thug nasty
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ok...
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On 2005-11-11 21:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"dont fucking say that to me. I DONT WANT TO FUCKING FIGHT ANYMORE. just because i am a bigger person, dont put me down. i still stand by what i said, im just not gonna waste my life fighting on the internet. Ok thanks."
Retranslation: I still cant back up my stupid comments. Please drop it and stop making me look bad for saying things I shouldnt.
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On 2005-11-11 21:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"actually i was sent there for no reason and what you said basically is me. and i still found the positive., it is possible. who cares about this? why dont we just stop talking about it. its pointless. we can agree to disagree cus this is dumb"
So youre saying youre life would have been the better off had you never gone there, yet it was still somehow a positive experience? This is a bit of a contridiction.
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On 2005-11-11 21:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you can make negitive exp. into vpositive by learning something. stop being so biter, it only brings you down. get over it and make something of your life instead of talking about the past"
Again you assume that 1. I havent gotten over it and 2. That Im not making something of my life.
You people pretend to know an awful lot of things about someone youve never met.
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On 2005-11-11 21:11:00, aftenthurston wrote:
"
On 2005-11-11 20:26:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"
On 2005-11-11 14:22:00, aftenthurston wrote:
"HLA brings both positive and negative memories, however, the positve and negitive both induce learning. everyone is so quick to knock HLA when in reality, obviously there was a reason you were sent there, and maybe you evaluate that situation,as well as what may have happened to you, or how you would have turned out without being at HLA. even if you wont admit it, you would more than likley be a whole lot worse off without being pulled from your home environment and placed in a more controlled atmosphere."
Again you assume things you cannot possibly know. What if the reason we sent there was bullshit? What if we were kept there illegally because the staff members knew you didnt belong there but to allow you to leave would constitute admitting you never needed to be there in the first place. What if you would have been awhole lot better off having never gone there? What if that time in your life that you lost would have better spent doing other things? What if all you took from there was an understanding that some people will do and say anything to control others and to steal peoples money.
Would it still be a positive experience then? Did you still need to be sent there? Are you still a better person for having gone there? Would you be worse off if you hadnt?
Dont assume things about people you dont know, nor should you assume that I am the only one who was sent there and remained there under similar circumstances.
Oh and again since you werent listening the first time, just because you learn something doesnt make it a positive experience. "
i believe that is a load of bullshit. you sound like an early earth element student. nobody is sent there for no reason, and if you truly believe that you were, then i am to believe you are dillusional"
You can believe whatever you want but it doesnt make you right. If anything it makes you sound exactly like a staff member. Some people were sent there for no reason. Ask me all the traditional reasons for kids being sent there and ill give you the negative in each and every one.
Irregardless you dont know me, nor do you know anything about me save what I allow you to know. So why dont you stop pretending otherwise, and considering your opinion matters to absolutly no one why dont you keep them to yourself for the time being. There were many many kids who did not need to be there, who were placed there illegally, and kept there because all Buchi and Fat Bill and all the others really care about is trying to control others, and stealing money.
Ask questions next time dipshit, then decide.
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You know its never occured to me, but look at Buchi and Fat Bill, they both had rough times as children, Buch due to his love of men, and Fat Bill due to fatass.
Do you think that maybe the reason why they do the things they do and abuse children that way is to try and make up for all the hurt other children inflicted on them?
Do you think many other employees there would be in the same boat? Trying to get some kind of sick vengenance.
It wouldnt surprise me.
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1) Bill had a fine childhood, with no problems, or lack of friends, or problems with parents, etc. He had no behavioral problems, no medical problems, and no educational problems. He grew up in a happy home with loving parents and extended family members. He is close to all of his siblings and their children.
2) Bill does not abuse children. He is not a counselor, nor a teacher, nor is he alone with any students at any time whatsoever. He works at the school in a business capacity and not in a therapeutic capacity. He has been there almost 12 years. He has never been investigated for child abuse, accused of child abuse, or suspected of child abuse. His 4 children love him very much as do his neices and nephews.
Before you decide to bring someone innocent of abuse such as Bill into your little vendetta against the school Robert, consider that what you just stated in your post is a complete LIE, completely false, and is slanderous and you can be sued for it. And dont worry you dont have to guess who I am, I am Bill's ex wife who posts here on occasion, the one you call Mrs Gray (which is NOT my name and hasdnt been for years) Low blow Robert, very mature, something Ive come to expect from you.
and dont you DARE accuse my son's father of child abuse again do I MAKE MYSELF PERFECTLY CLEAR????? I thought so.
:wstupid:
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Wow... I must certainly agree with "Mrs.Gray" Bill doesn't really interact with the students very often, however, everytime i ever talked to him, he was very nice. i, for one, was quite fond of Bill.
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Let me clarify something for you, Mrs. Gray: You're a fucking idiot and nobody cares what you have to say about anything whatsoever.
Clear enough?
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Hahahaha..........like I care who thinks what about me, Im no idiot but not like you would know. However, I do know whether or not my ex husband was a child abuser dontcha think??? DUH! Cute response though, very creative.
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Try sticking a rag in your mouth. How you do prattle on.
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You know most of you former students are in your 20s now....start acting like it, it might lend more credence to your statements. And no I am not speaking about all students, only ones who decide they cant talk to someone who doesnt agree with them without using junior high insults. I am 40 years old, believe me I have heard it all. You know the old saying? Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me? Bring it on! :rofl:
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You look 60. I like how you tell kids to "bring it on." How mature.
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I meant bring on the comments...i welcome them...that wasnt intended as anything other than sarcasm...and how do you know what I look like? I haven been on campus since february of 2001. But no I dont look 60, I look 40. Thanks for the compliment though :silly:
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Must be the only way a fat ass and powerfully ugly old lady can get attention: order kids to give it to her. Get a life already, lard ass.
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Based on his comments, Robert would actually be the perfect administrator of an abusive program. He seems to have a true for degrading others who openly voice their own opinions as well as a huge power need. It must be easy to sit behind a keyboard and judge. Robert, you haven't been up there in over 4 years so you know what the recent grad's have gone through. Nobody can fault you for having feelings. However, being an ass doesn't seem to help anyone, including the parents of would-be students that you claim to be assisting.
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Robert, you haven't been up there in over 4 years so you DON'T know what the recent grad's have gone through.
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The bullfrog reemerges from the shadows. How nice to see you again Susie Gray. I thought you crawled away in fear after you realized that posting a students confidential information gained from an illegal source might get you into a little trouble. Dont worry youre still in trouble you will face the consequences of your actions. Keep telling yourself otherwise..it wont change a thing.
As to your comments, Fat Bill was instrumental in a systematic and organized form of child abuse, he is a child abuser. Is that clear enough for you? I know for a fact that ol Fat Ass was directly respondsible for substandard living conditions (and only reemdied the situation when to many parents saw how bad things were) as well as numerous health violations, and a great deal of a lack of saftey for the inmates at HLA.
One thing I dont understand Mrs. Gray, how can you claim now that Bill has nothing to do with the theraputic parts of the school ( as if there was another part) when you yourself stated that you were familar with all the workings of the school. How can you claim you knew something if he didnt? Unless of course you want to acknowledge that counsolers broke confidentiality.
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On 2005-11-13 13:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Based on his comments, Robert would actually be the perfect administrator of an abusive program. He seems to have a true for degrading others who openly voice their own opinions as well as a huge power need. It must be easy to sit behind a keyboard and judge. Robert, you haven't been up there in over 4 years so you know what the recent grad's have gone through. Nobody can fault you for having feelings. However, being an ass doesn't seem to help anyone, including the parents of would-be students that you claim to be assisting. "
Are you fishing again? You have no clue when I was up there last. As I told you dont know who I am therefore you dont know when I was a student there or when I was there last.
I must say I have to disagree with you, I would not be a good administrator for an abusive program for the simple reason I dont advocate abuse, well at least for children. Hence much of my problems with HLA we disagree on that fundamental point. HLA believes abusing children for profit is acceptable whereas I do not.
Furthermore you will at no point find me judging anyone on here who has not already judged me, nor will you find me ever telling or treating someone as if they do not have a right to either their opinion or feelings (something I find interesting coming from you bullfrog, you worked at HLA. A place where personal feelings and opinions are neither welcome nor tolerated.) what I do have a problem with is people stating their opinions to be facts, and making statements without basis or merit. If youre going to claim something be able to back it up. (Something Mrs. Gray was never able to do) Dont get confused on the difference between what is a fact and what is an opinion.
Simple as that. [ This Message was edited by: RobertBruce on 2005-11-13 13:36 ]
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On 2005-11-13 13:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Robert, you haven't been up there in over 4 years so you DON'T know what the recent grad's have gone through."
One more time Susie, you dont know me, nor do you know when I was there.
Oh and youre correct in that I dont know what the more recent grads are going through, accept they are telling the same stories that Ive told. If things have changed so much and its a wonderful place now why are the same reports coming out of there. And if things have changed so much (they havent) would that mean those of there earlier would have a legitimate complaint against the school?
You need to face the reality of this. Stop searching through students confidential files, they arent yours to look at. [ This Message was edited by: RobertBruce on 2005-11-13 13:42 ]
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Since you are so adept at searching IP's why dont you look that one up and see that I wasnt the one that posted any of those posts in the past few hours....none of those were me. I haven been on the computer since the last post that was clearly me. The last one that was me I said it was me. And i dont need to HIDE from anybody, I already told you I have no access to any files whatsoever nor do I know anyting from those files. I dont care what you threaten, I have never run away in fear from anything you have ever typed, nor do I plan to. And I didnt post any confidential information either. I typed a first name of someone that I thought might be you. But feel free to fantasize about some imagined day in court if you like, I could care less Robert.
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Mrs. Gray as well all know, you are to stupid to have come up with a name on your own. You rambeled on and on about what little contact you had with the students. If that was the case how did you know who this student was or have enough information concerning him to claim I was him?
You had it because someone gave it to you.
And that my dear is illegal. Dan from Pg 26 posted the statue that states revealing any information about a student is illegal. Any information means any information. You revealed not only this boys first name, but the length of time he was at HLA.
This is a crime.
You will suffer the consequences.
I suggest you think about revealing where you got your info, because again no one will buy that you came up with it on your own.
Im sorry youre just to fucking stupid.
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First of all, I remembered a kid with that name I posted that I met once while I was living on campus that was a pain in the butt to everyone around him. I knew he wasnt there that long, but wasnt sure of the months. The 3 months I believe I posted was a GUESS....so was the guess that the kid might be you. NONE of that info that I decided to throw out was taken from any file nor from any person. I guessed it. I also threw out other names before that if you will recall. I was just seeing what you would do. If I was correct than I was lucky as hell, nothing else. I committed no crime, I did nothing to be sued in a court of law over nor did I do anything immoral, illegal, or improper. Like I said, threaten all you like, I did nothing whatsoever that had to do with confidential files or information, and I have nothing to fear from you or anybody else. and I have no access to any files nor have I ever had access to files even when I lived on campus. The things I worked on were report cards and progress reports and someone else put those in the students main files after I got done with them. Even then I didnt have access to them, nor do I know who does these days.
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My apologies to Mrs Gray? I didn't mean for you to get in Robert's crosshairs again. Considering that I am a male and have never met you, I too would conclude that you had nothing to do with my post. Personally, I could give a damn if he or anyone else decides to look up my IP address. My post was purely my opinion and I never claimed for any of my statements to be fact. As far as me "fishing," I was only reflecting upon some of Robert's previous statements that would indicate he had not been there in at least four years.
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Mrs. Gray....again its obvious you are lying. You do know you did something illegal, and you cant prove you didnt get the information from student records because you had access to those records as an employee. Furthermore you are attempting now to avoid implication by not stating his name. Also I should let you know in pursuing legal action against you, thanks to Dan, the student whose information you revealed has been informed of your actions. When I explained the entire situation to him and who was involved he stated he didnt even know Bill was married. So apparently you are in fact lying when you claim you met him. You also have never dropped another name on either this message board or the amazing forum concerning me. You claimed for some time that you knew who I was but you could not even supply an initial to back up your claim. You kept babbeling on about how your husband told you it was "tacky".
So youre claim is that you just randomly picked out a name and hoped that it was me?
Bullshit Mrs. Gray, besides what would cause you to remember a singular student among hundreds that you claim you only met once?
This isnt going to go away Mrs. Gray you are going to face the consequences of releasing confidential information about Devon.
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THe reason I remembered that particular name, along with a girl named Devon also, was that that is my son's name. Its not a common name so I remember everybody I know with that name. And as far as the kid named Devon not knowing Bill was married, funny, since his 3 kids used to visit the campus and play in the yard right by the main road near the cabin and visit him in his office every few days, and ate at the cafeteria where their granma worked. If this kid says he didnt know Bill was married, he musta been pretty oblivious to his surroundings.
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theres no possible way that someone at HLA could not know Bill... and of his family. i, as well as just about everyone else, saw them walking together frequently on campus... hmm??
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your a fuck. you need to grow up and mature. seriously you act like a 10 year old, fight with people and talk shit for pointless reasons- ON THE INTERNET no less. ROBERTBRUCE you should just stop tlaking crap. express you opinions-fine. but dont destroy everyone elses. Seriously how old are you!?
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On 2005-11-13 15:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"THe reason I remembered that particular name, along with a girl named Devon also, was that that is my son's name. Its not a common name so I remember everybody I know with that name. And as far as the kid named Devon not knowing Bill was married, funny, since his 3 kids used to visit the campus and play in the yard right by the main road near the cabin and visit him in his office every few days, and ate at the cafeteria where their granma worked. If this kid says he didnt know Bill was married, he musta been pretty oblivious to his surroundings. "
Bullfrog, I didnt know Bill was married until shortly before I left. I never saw his kids, and I could not have imagiened he was married. Upon seeing you however things were explained. There were many other students who did not know Bill was married and never met you, despite your assertions that you were greatly involved in our day to day lives.
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On 2005-11-13 15:48:00, aftenthurston wrote:
"theres no possible way that someone at HLA could not know Bill... and of his family. i, as well as just about everyone else, saw them walking together frequently on campus... hmm??"
Who said I didnt know who Bill was, but there you go again making claims you could not possibly know to be fact. Simply because you saw Billy with his family on a regular basis (im sure generally at staff gatherings) it means every single student did as well?
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at staff gatherings?? no, on campus...
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On 2005-11-13 20:38:00, aftenthurston wrote:
"at staff gatherings?? no, on campus... "
and yet she completly evades the question. How like a staff member.
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how did i evade the question? there was no direct question...
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sure there was, I asked you at what point I claimed I didnt know who Billy was.
I also made the point that you were again making assumptions, you claimed that everyone knew Billy had a family as they all saw him with them on a daily basis. Again something you cannot know to be fact.
Back it up.
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when you see a family walking together on camps, it is quite hard to ignore the fact they are a family... woman, man, childern... hmmm... you would have to be plain stupid not to recognize that
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On 2005-11-14 09:47:00, aftenthurston wrote:
"when you see a family walking together on camps, it is quite hard to ignore the fact they are a family... woman, man, childern... hmmm... you would have to be plain stupid not to recognize that"
Yes professor but you ignore the fact that perhaps we never saw them all walking together. Perhaps we never saw the children or lovely wife on campus at all.
Idiot.
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Maybe you never saw them walking on campus together, but I, as well as many others, did.
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As well as many others did not.
Now what you just said is acceptable. You are using your own experiences as a point of reference. The problem comes in when you use your experiences as a template for everyone regardless of the fact that you were not there to experience those events.
You can only speak of your experiences not other peoples nor can you assume things about people youve never met.
Understand?
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I speack in generalizations often because i am used to seeing the general student body that i was there with, and it was all the same thing with each person...
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Probably not but I wasnt there. Either way you dont know how the students were when you werent there now do you?
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never claimed to
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Robert....it is sooooo obvious that you are not one of the hundreds of HLA success stories.
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and isn't that a good thing!! his critical thinking skills are still in tact.
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"critical" thinking skills...surely you aren't serious...it more like critically misquided skills.
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you still have critical thinking skills after HLA...if anything you have more knowledge of yourself.
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you still have critical thinking skills after HLA.
YOU meaning yourself, aften. or YOU meaning everyone, as in YOU speaking for everyone again?
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On 2005-11-14 10:47:00, aftenthurston wrote:
"never claimed to"
Oh but you did, please ask me to prove it and embarress yourself.
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who are you talking to?
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On 2005-11-14 18:37:00, aftenthurston wrote:
"who are you talking to?"
you dingus, you claimed you never stated you knew how the kids of HLA behaved. Something youve done little else of the last few days.
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On 2005-11-14 13:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Robert....it is sooooo obvious that you are not one of the hundreds of HLA success stories."
Is that a fact? Are you assuming things about me? Things you cannot possibly know?
Let me educate you and put you in your place just a tad.
I never needed to be in HLA in the first place, all going there did was disrupt and set back my education, and bring on a series of bad memories and emotional scars.
Now even though I was on the right track prior to going to HLA I remained on it afterwards determined to be in a position someday where I could expose the institutions you so readily endorse.
At this point in my life I am married, I am about to start grad school in short order, oh and I own and operate a very lucrative small business.
Now while I continue to work to improve myself, I believe I am still on the right track, and I owe it all to being strong enough to not just resist against the attempted brainwashing by you people, but to escape your evil money grubbing grasp.
God only knows what shape Id be in today if id fallen into that trap. :scared:
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Wow youre married, go to college and own your own business...hmmm how DO you find time for all that when you spend 70 percent of your time on HERE. You must never sleep.
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70% huh? HAHAHA where are you getting your numbers from?
Lets see, I was on here yesterday from about 12 to about 130 I was then at class from 2 to 6. I then ran some errands and got home about around 830 posted on here briefly again and then ran to my office to do some work till about 12. I got home did some homework until a little after 2 and then posted on here until about 245-3. At which point I went to bed. So lets see that totals out to what we'll say generously about 3 hours.
......
Yet somehow this totals out to 70% of my day?
You must have gotten your math skills at HLA.
One of those success stories you spoke of.
:grin:
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wow... i never claimed to know all of the students, i did say i was making generalizations...
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I dont understand if youre claiming now that you dont know every student than how could you have known anything about them to begin with?
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robert you spend three hours a day on here
wow you suck
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do i now? How much time do you spend a day on here and what is the purpose?
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Robert.....you just don't get it...no one really cares about your day...minute by minute...the same for your biased misinformation.
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how many worthless posts have there been in the last several days. it seems as if the whole thing is geared to obscure the real topic, HLA. just as robert accused aften of being a staff member, he seems to be acting the same way. perhaps he is the staff member trying to tie up the board so no one will talk about the real issues. he keeps saying that he has all these "facts", yet has shown no proof of anything. I just find it very odd that someone who wants to be seen as someone who is trying to make a change, is doing nothing but getting in petty pissing contests and engauging in "he said, she said, did not, did too".
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On 2005-11-16 06:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Robert.....you just don't get it...no one really cares about your day...minute by minute...the same for your biased misinformation."
If no one cares then why was the point made originally to suggest that I spend 70% of my day on here?
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On 2005-11-16 07:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"how many worthless posts have there been in the last several days. it seems as if the whole thing is geared to obscure the real topic, HLA. just as robert accused aften of being a staff member, he seems to be acting the same way. perhaps he is the staff member trying to tie up the board so no one will talk about the real issues. he keeps saying that he has all these "facts", yet has shown no proof of anything. I just find it very odd that someone who wants to be seen as someone who is trying to make a change, is doing nothing but getting in petty pissing contests and engauging in "he said, she said, did not, did too". "
Havent I? Call the ORS of GA and see for yourself.
They were not licensed properly and probably still are not.
While your at it call the county registar for Lumpkin Co. They did not for the first 11 years even have a proper business license.
Again though dont take my word for it look it up yourselves.
No Im not staff member, Im here to illuminate the facts about HLA that Buchi and his puppets would rather keep quiet.
Things like food rationing, illegal placement and detention of students, treatment of students with suicidal issues.
You know normal boarding school stuff.
At the moment Im highlighting all the wonderful invalid assumptions Aften has made about students shes never met, as well as drawing attention to the fact that shes behaving exactly like many staff members at HLA do.
Not to mention the whole fiasco with Ridge Creek, we all remember how well that went down.
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of course I won't take your word for it, you can not, nor have you proved anything.
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On 2005-11-16 09:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"of course I won't take your word for it, you can not, nor have you proved anything. "
So then you will make the calls to the agencies to verify Robert's statements and report back what you've found?
I'd really like to know what you find, but I won't take your word for it, so please cite your sources as well as your findings.
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http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/pa ... x.html&d=1 (http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/page.cgi?g=DEPARTMENT_OF_HUMAN_RESOURCES%2Findex.html&d=1)
Legal Authority:
O.C.G.A. Sec. 49-5-12
? Any bona fide boarding school whose primary purpose of admission is education, provided that such facility in order to claim exemption shall operate under a published academic educational curriculum which meets the requirements of the State Department of Education, shall have classroom facilities which are not used for residential living, shall not have been granted nor have assumed legal custody of children attending the facility, and shall not provide service planning and casework services as described in the licensing rules.
SACS: pg 47 of school directory acredited 2001
If you read the whole code, you might find that they are not required to have a license.
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Did you miss this or intentionally leave it out?
ORS REGS FOR RESIDENTIAL CARE FACILITY
Definition: Any facility providing full time residential care for six or more children under 17 years of age outside of their own homes.
Do you really expect any of us who know anything about the facility to believe that they are not technically an RCF?
Or that they are a traditional boarding school, as the definition you provided?
We are not as stupid as the ORS. HLA found a loop hole. Any facility that diagnoses and treats mental 'disorders'; that subjects kids to more 'therapy' than education; that restricts contact with parents and the outside world; (for starters) should be licensed by the state.
Also:
(b) "Child caring institution" means any institution, society, agency, or facility, whether incorporated or not, which either primarily or incidentally provides full-time care for children under 17 years of age outside of their own homes, subject to such exceptions as may be provided in rules and regulations of the Board of Human Resources. For purposes of these rules, a child caring institution means any institution, society, agency, or facility that provides such care to six or more children.*
They definitely meet the definition of an RCF/CCI. They've simply deceived ORS or bought an exemption, would be my guess.
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that is very posible, but if it looks like they are following the law, then who is going to look deeper. i'm sure that people will be enticed to do so by robert's wise and impressive way of making his point. :lol:
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On 2005-11-16 10:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/page.cgi?g=DEPARTMENT_OF_HUMAN_RESOURCES%2Findex.html&d=1
Legal Authority:
O.C.G.A. Sec. 49-5-12
? Any bona fide boarding school whose primary purpose of admission is education, provided that such facility in order to claim exemption shall operate under a published academic educational curriculum which meets the requirements of the State Department of Education, shall have classroom facilities which are not used for residential living, shall not have been granted nor have assumed legal custody of children attending the facility, and shall not provide service planning and casework services as described in the licensing rules.
SACS: pg 47 of school directory acredited 2001
If you read the whole code, you might find that they are not required to have a license.
"
Well, I guess there are a few things to discuss here.
First let me say that HLA operated from 1994-2001 without accreditation and falsely advertised themselves as a "school." The Academy at Ivy Ridge in NY was recently successfully sued by the Attorney General and was found to have committed fraud, heavliy fined, ordered to cease advertising as a school and ordered to pay over $1,000,000 in restitution to former "students" defrauded of a proper diploma. HLA seems like they ran the same same scam successfully for seven years.
Also, upon reading the requirements for ongoing accreditation from SACS I found that HLA is not in compliance with dozens of regulations imposed by SACS, most especially those concerning student rights.
So, anyone who has recently attended or worked at HLA please read the SACS criteria and notify SACS about which provisions HLA is negligent.
Thanks for the link, anon. It was very enlightening to see how grossly HLA violates SACS policy while continuing to hold out SACS as their accreditation entity.
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your welcome, if they are in violation, then there should be corrective action by the agencies involved.
As far as being a residential care facility, hla does not claim to be one, therefore they are exempt, no matter what the reality may seem to some people. Again, it would be up to the specific agency to investigate and make the decision as to what applies to hla. I know of at least one facility in ga, that even though it is licensed by the state, i would not send my dog to it. it make hla look like club med.
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btw complaints to SACs will result in being told to make the complaint through your agency ( ie through the headmaster who will forward it to SACs)
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That?s interesting. They are no longer classified as a ?Special Purpose School?, but a ?Secondary School?, which appears to be a ?Public? school classification.
What does that mean? They no longer follow the requirements, as lame as they are, for a SP school?
Standards for Special Purpose Schools:
http://www.sacscasi.org/region/standard ... chools.pdf (http://www.sacscasi.org/region/standards/sec/Accreditation_Standards_2000_for_Special_Purpose_Schools.pdf)
A special purpose school is a public, private, profit, or non-profit education institution which offers programs of instruction for elementary, middle, or secondary students. The schools are
organized around a special purpose or are for students whose needs may require variations in patterns of instruction.
Required for a SP school:
There is a charter, LICENSE, or permit issued by the appropriate civil jurisdiction which testifies the school has the authority to operate within that jurisdiction.
In terms of their (SACS) ?oversight?:
An accredited school is expected to demonstrate adherence to the standards by annually reviewing and reporting to SACS CASI its status regarding the standards. Also, at least once every five years, a school must present evidence to a Quality Assurance Review team that the school is in compliance with the standards. In evaluating the school?s capacity to meet the accreditation standards, school officials should use the Standards Assessment Tool that is available for download at http://www.sacscasi.org (http://www.sacscasi.org). For each of the ten standards, a brief narrative outlining the school?s current capacity to meet the standard should be prepared and included in the documentation for the Quality Assurance Review.
Again, SACS is concerned with academics. They are not to be considered an adequate replacement for State regulations and oversight. They will not be monitoring the ?therapeutic? aspect of the program- abuse, restrictions, physical plant, student's rights, etc.
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***As far as being a residential care facility, hla does not claim to be one
To whom? Certainly not parents. Google HLA and every single return will validate that they are, and always have been, a 'Therapeutic' facility- an RCF. This is a semanitcs argument. We all know what services they provide and that they should be monitored by the state. What we don't know is how they are avoiding it- who they've deceived or paid off.
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On 2005-11-16 09:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"of course I won't take your word for it, you can not, nor have you proved anything. "
Like I said dont take my word for it call up the ORS for GA and the county registar and see for yourself.
While your at it since Bullfrog wanted to discuss it earlier call the health dept for Lumpkin Co and see what kind of scores the kitchen at HLA has had.
When can we expect you to look into those?
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Robert once again youre wrong about what posts are mine and what arent. The one you just quoted was not mine. And the last inspection rating I got on the school was a 94.
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On 2005-11-16 10:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/page.cgi?g=DEPARTMENT_OF_HUMAN_RESOURCES%2Findex.html&d=1
Legal Authority:
O.C.G.A. Sec. 49-5-12
? Any bona fide boarding school whose primary purpose of admission is education, provided that such facility in order to claim exemption shall operate under a published academic educational curriculum which meets the requirements of the State Department of Education, shall have classroom facilities which are not used for residential living, shall not have been granted nor have assumed legal custody of children attending the facility, and shall not provide service planning and casework services as described in the licensing rules.
SACS: pg 47 of school directory acredited 2001
If you read the whole code, you might find that they are not required to have a license.
"
Key phrase here "bona fide boarding school whose primary purpose of admission is education."
as is well known HLA is neither a bona fide boarding school nor is the primary purpose education.
Sorry but you cant get around that. It is a theraputic boarding school and the primary purpose is therapy. Thus they should be operating under state regulations for TBS.
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On 2005-11-16 11:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"your welcome, if they are in violation, then there should be corrective action by the agencies involved.
As far as being a residential care facility, hla does not claim to be one, therefore they are exempt, no matter what the reality may seem to some people. Again, it would be up to the specific agency to investigate and make the decision as to what applies to hla. I know of at least one facility in ga, that even though it is licensed by the state, i would not send my dog to it. it make hla look like club med."
Interestingly enough HLA claimed up until recent events on there website to be a Theraputic Boarding School. It made that point very clear.
I guess we are making an impact after all.
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On 2005-11-16 20:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Robert once again youre wrong about what posts are mine and what arent. The one you just quoted was not mine. And the last inspection rating I got on the school was a 94."
Bullfrog you need to get back into that adult literacy course. Maybe beef up those reading comprehension skills. I never claimed that post was yours.
Furthermore we had this conversation regarding the school cafeteria health score.
Yes they did earn a 97 on their inspection last spring. However that inspection was done as a follow up from a previous inspection in which they failed.
Had they not passed the one they earned the 97 on the cafeteria would have been shut down.
Again though call the health department and verify this claim.
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alot of angry people put there. heh. I spent more time than any of you at that place. Life goes on. yeah it sucked and yeah that place needs to be shut down, but how about rather than fighting amongst yourselves, you try working together, hm? Didn't RCI teach you anything (i went there 3 times) rather than having pissing contests about who is right and wrong, try compiling a list fo the mis-deeds of hla and then methodically going through them, checking to see which ones are still valid and usable. just a though there. parents have called me and asked if they should send there own child there and i tell them the truth. what life is really like there and its not all negative information. But alot of it is due to the nature of the place and what it does to a persons mind. anyway, peace.
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You are right and such cooperation and a list already exist.
What you see here is done primarly to dispell the propoganda of Buchi's stooges.
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you seem to one of the ones feeding it along
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Again its nessecary to dispell the propoganda spewed off by these puppets.
Unfortunate but nessecary to inform parents of the reality of the situation at HLA.
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Posted by a physician in another thread...
"My experience with Hidden Lake Academy was also distressing.
In my opinion, and the opinions of the six other physicians in my practice who followed my HLA misadventure with me, HLA is a predator whose prey is the horrified parents of disturbed teens. It is an institution of opportunity, bringing home its bottom line at the expense of the desperate, frazzled families it exploits.
By the time most parents are introduced to HLA, they've already been through a costly and demoralizing gauntlet of police stations, court appearances, counselor visits, psychiatric evaluations...even hospital visits.
To say they are desperate is an understatement. They are trying to keep their families from self-destructing. In most cases, the only option is turning the child out onto the streets: most insurance policies won't cover mental health care, and even if a family is lucky enough to have good coverage, it is limited to short, individual events. Deeply needed inpatient care is rarely an option for most of these families.
So even considering a modality such as a therapeutic boarding school is a true extravagance. Actually sending the student may mean mortgaging a home, selling it, or even bancruptcy.
Enter Hidden Lake and its ilk.
I was asked by the parents of a young teen to evaluate HLA by its Web site. What stood out to me even more than the philosophy that medical therapy was discouraged were the many typographical errors and careless mistakes on nearly every page of the site. While my own writing is not perfect, I am not registered as a boarding school, responsible for the education of children, presumably overflowing with teachers more than capable of proofreading the very materials provided to the public for the purpose of attracting business.
When I brought my concerns to the attention to the school, they were received with, well, less than warm gratitude. My comments to HLA were meant to be constructive. I was gracious and self-effacing in my original letter because the last thing I wanted was to offend the school. Clearly such niceties were a waste of effort.
Given that the parents are expected to pay upwards of seven thousand dollars per month for the privilege of sending their child to a therapeutic boarding school, I actually expected a minimum of civility. None was evident.
My credentials were questioned?this from an institution whose methods are questionable, at best, from a medical (and psychiatric, I might add) point of view.
Fast forward a few months...and imagine how surprised I was to come across the story of the parent in the previous posts. Am I shocked HLA will not send the child's transcripts? Nope. They demonstrated their pettiness, immaturity, and curious vindictiveness to me, a peer and potential referral base a long time ago. Was I surprised that personal belongings, including necessary daily medications, were sent COD?by ground? Actually, yes.
Not only did that shock me, it caused me to pick up the phone and discuss this gross mismanagement of a patient's medications with a malpractice attorney, who recommends HLA check to be sure their insurance premiums are paid.
To the parent: my suggestion is that you alert your attorney to your experience. Gather all proof of your allegations, including the boxes the personal effects were sent in, the COD receipt(s), the condition of any damaged items, a list of missing items, if any, and proof of payments made to HLA. Regardless of any contract signed (as a previous Anonymous poster cryptically stated), a minimum level of responsibility to the patient's health is required by ANY institution. That minimum includes making reasonable arrangements for the patient to have access to their medications. COD shipping by ground is not, by any standard, "reasonable."
So guess what, parent? You may be getting a sizeable percentage of the "investment" HLA coerced you to pay them right back into your pocket.
I'll be cheering for you from this sideline."
UNBIASED OUTSIDE OPINION BY MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL SAYS HLA IS "PREDATOR" VICTIMIZING PARENTS AND CHILDREN. WAKE UP, PEOPLE. :skull:
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bump it up now
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how many times is that thread going to be reposted? can whoever keeps posting it please spare everyone else the re-reading of it and STOP POSTING THE SAME SHIT!!! it's rather tedious and annoying...
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On 2006-01-02 00:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"how many times is that thread going to be reposted? can whoever keeps posting it please spare everyone else the re-reading of it and STOP POSTING THE SAME SHIT!!! it's rather tedious and annoying..."
it's going to be posted and reposted until the questions are answered. you can't censor this site so just deal with it.
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On 2006-01-02 00:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"how many times is that thread going to be reposted? can whoever keeps posting it please spare everyone else the re-reading of it and STOP POSTING THE SAME SHIT!!! it's rather tedious and annoying..."
If its annoying, here's a suggestion. DON'T FUCKING READ IT. Pretty simple.
I hadn't seen that post before so whoever reposted it, thanks!! :smile:
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On 2005-12-14 10:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Posted by a physician in another thread...
"My experience with Hidden Lake Academy was also distressing.
In my opinion, and the opinions of the six other physicians in my practice who followed my HLA misadventure with me, HLA is a predator whose prey is the horrified parents of disturbed teens. It is an institution of opportunity, bringing home its bottom line at the expense of the desperate, frazzled families it exploits.
By the time most parents are introduced to HLA, they've already been through a costly and demoralizing gauntlet of police stations, court appearances, counselor visits, psychiatric evaluations...even hospital visits.
To say they are desperate is an understatement. They are trying to keep their families from self-destructing. In most cases, the only option is turning the child out onto the streets: most insurance policies won't cover mental health care, and even if a family is lucky enough to have good coverage, it is limited to short, individual events. Deeply needed inpatient care is rarely an option for most of these families.
So even considering a modality such as a therapeutic boarding school is a true extravagance. Actually sending the student may mean mortgaging a home, selling it, or even bancruptcy.
Enter Hidden Lake and its ilk.
I was asked by the parents of a young teen to evaluate HLA by its Web site. What stood out to me even more than the philosophy that medical therapy was discouraged were the many typographical errors and careless mistakes on nearly every page of the site. While my own writing is not perfect, I am not registered as a boarding school, responsible for the education of children, presumably overflowing with teachers more than capable of proofreading the very materials provided to the public for the purpose of attracting business.
When I brought my concerns to the attention to the school, they were received with, well, less than warm gratitude. My comments to HLA were meant to be constructive. I was gracious and self-effacing in my original letter because the last thing I wanted was to offend the school. Clearly such niceties were a waste of effort.
Given that the parents are expected to pay upwards of seven thousand dollars per month for the privilege of sending their child to a therapeutic boarding school, I actually expected a minimum of civility. None was evident.
My credentials were questioned?this from an institution whose methods are questionable, at best, from a medical (and psychiatric, I might add) point of view.
Fast forward a few months...and imagine how surprised I was to come across the story of the parent in the previous posts. Am I shocked HLA will not send the child's transcripts? Nope. They demonstrated their pettiness, immaturity, and curious vindictiveness to me, a peer and potential referral base a long time ago. Was I surprised that personal belongings, including necessary daily medications, were sent COD?by ground? Actually, yes.
Not only did that shock me, it caused me to pick up the phone and discuss this gross mismanagement of a patient's medications with a malpractice attorney, who recommends HLA check to be sure their insurance premiums are paid.
To the parent: my suggestion is that you alert your attorney to your experience. Gather all proof of your allegations, including the boxes the personal effects were sent in, the COD receipt(s), the condition of any damaged items, a list of missing items, if any, and proof of payments made to HLA. Regardless of any contract signed (as a previous Anonymous poster cryptically stated), a minimum level of responsibility to the patient's health is required by ANY institution. That minimum includes making reasonable arrangements for the patient to have access to their medications. COD shipping by ground is not, by any standard, "reasonable."
So guess what, parent? You may be getting a sizeable percentage of the "investment" HLA coerced you to pay them right back into your pocket.
I'll be cheering for you from this sideline."
UNBIASED OUTSIDE OPINION BY MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL SAYS HLA IS "PREDATOR" VICTIMIZING PARENTS AND CHILDREN. WAKE UP, PEOPLE. :skull:"
Take a true professional's word for it. Read his story. It give a clear window into how HLA treats ANY kind of criticism: attck the messenger. You can see this in "Kathleen's" posts. When she can't logically win an argument she bashes the owner of the dissenting opinion.
Zebras don't change their stripes, folks.
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On 2006-01-02 08:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-02 00:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"how many times is that thread going to be reposted? can whoever keeps posting it please spare everyone else the re-reading of it and STOP POSTING THE SAME SHIT!!! it's rather tedious and annoying..."
If its annoying, here's a suggestion. DON'T FUCKING READ IT. Pretty simple.
I hadn't seen that post before so whoever reposted it, thanks!! :smile: "
You annoying fuck... leave it alone for god's sake. you're just as annoying as all the other little bitches on here. SHUT THE FUCK UP ASSWIPE
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On 2006-01-02 12:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-02 08:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-02 00:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"how many times is that thread going to be reposted? can whoever keeps posting it please spare everyone else the re-reading of it and STOP POSTING THE SAME SHIT!!! it's rather tedious and annoying..."
If its annoying, here's a suggestion. DON'T FUCKING READ IT. Pretty simple.
I hadn't seen that post before so whoever reposted it, thanks!! :smile: "
You annoying fuck... leave it alone for god's sake. you're just as annoying as all the other little bitches on here. SHUT THE FUCK UP ASSWIPE"
Now, Aften, why don't you login with your username when you're making these baby-like comments? Doesn't show much "emotional growth" from a proud HLA grad, does it?
You seem like you still have LOTS of problems and are simply unable to be honest, even about your identity. Very sad, and a big waste of a couple hundred thousand dollars.
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On 2006-01-02 12:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
You annoying fuck... leave it alone for god's sake. you're just as annoying as all the other little bitches on here. SHUT THE FUCK UP ASSWIPE"
Why the hell should I leave it alone? Its a damn good article. Many of us have not read it. Since you obviously have there is no need for you to reread it....unless you're a complete retard.
You shut up! Nanny nanny boo boo. :wave:
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Stop just stop.
Do not make fun of Short Bus.
He's simply frustrated because he cannot read.
His antics are all just a cry for help.
Wont you help him?
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On 2005-11-16 11:25:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2005-11-16 10:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/page.cgi?g=DEPARTMENT_OF_HUMAN_RESOURCES%2Findex.html&d=1
Legal Authority:
O.C.G.A. Sec. 49-5-12
? Any bona fide boarding school whose primary purpose of admission is education, provided that such facility in order to claim exemption shall operate under a published academic educational curriculum which meets the requirements of the State Department of Education, shall have classroom facilities which are not used for residential living, shall not have been granted nor have assumed legal custody of children attending the facility, and shall not provide service planning and casework services as described in the licensing rules.
SACS: pg 47 of school directory acredited 2001
If you read the whole code, you might find that they are not required to have a license.
"
Well, I guess there are a few things to discuss here.
First let me say that HLA operated from 1994-2001 without accreditation and falsely advertised themselves as a "school." The Academy at Ivy Ridge in NY was recently successfully sued by the Attorney General and was found to have committed fraud, heavliy fined, ordered to cease advertising as a school and ordered to pay over $1,000,000 in restitution to former "students" defrauded of a proper diploma. HLA seems like they ran the same same scam successfully for seven years.
Also, upon reading the requirements for ongoing accreditation from SACS I found that HLA is not in compliance with dozens of regulations imposed by SACS, most especially those concerning student rights.
So, anyone who has recently attended or worked at HLA please read the SACS criteria and notify SACS about which provisions HLA is negligent.
Thanks for the link, anon. It was very enlightening to see how grossly HLA violates SACS policy while continuing to hold out SACS as their accreditation entity.
"
Same story for years. This place is a scam and a sham.
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Well, this isn't Aften, this is somene else, and I warn anyone that sends there child to HLA, it will cause many more problems than you already have. It may say They deal with ADHD and ADD, but they just shove pills down your mouth, and if that doesn't work then you just get in trouble. I went there at 14, never cursed at an adult, never fought with anyone, never been restraigned, or anything like that. I had ADD, and they didn't even figure that out until right before I left. So the entire time I was getting in trouble, just like I would in a regular school, when they were supposed to be helping me. The lady that checked me in there had told me I was the most polite girl she had ever met. and I had heard that a lot before then. About 3 months later, I was exactly like everyone else there. Cursing at all the staff, Being restraigned, on restrictions all the time. I wanted to tell my parents how miserable I was, but my counselors would convince my parents that I just had a bad day or a bad week, or manipulate them to think other wise.
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Thanks for your post. I'd like to be able to say that your situation is unfortunate and unique. Sadly, that isn't true.
This has happened to many of the kids from HLA. Inadequate mental health care has been the defining trait of this program for over a decade. They simply don't have professionals on staff who are equipped to deal with issues like yours.
Early on, they were a "no meds" facility and that was a key marketing point. They soon discovered that they had more problems on their hands than they could deal with. So, you guessed it, they started "shoving pills" down throats. If that doesn't work, they try to punish away ADD, ADHD, bipolar disorder, anorexia, homosexuality, etc.
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Yea that's me, see!!! The fucking post is GONE already! Talk to Ginger, this is fucked up man...
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On 2006-01-12 13:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yea that's me, see!!! The fucking post is GONE already! Talk to Ginger, this is fucked up man..."
What post?
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PM Ginger and ask her about it. I was seriously asking 'what post'. Could you paraphrase it here?
DJ, are you having problems too?
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:lol:
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On 2006-01-12 13:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"PM Ginger and ask her about it. I was seriously asking 'what post'. Could you paraphrase it here?
DJ, are you having problems too? "
Can't paraphrase something that ISN'T here anymore! Oh well, fuck these niggaz!! :lol: :lol:
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On 2006-01-12 13:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
Can't paraphrase something that ISN'T here anymore! Oh well, fuck these niggaz!! :lol: :lol: "
You can't paraphrase what you wrote just minutes ago?
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Something to the effect of: Why are my posts being deleted two minutes after I post them on this board now, why are the moderatores turning into big brother, similar to the staff members who censored our EVERY move, EVERY letter, EVERY phone call. This is an "open" forum, ISN'T IT??? Not cool Ginger..Word the fuck up!! :wink:
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I see it too. It can't be Ginger because I just called her to ask about it and she's not home. I left a PM with her, I suggest you do the same.
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On 2006-01-12 13:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Something to the effect of: Why are my posts being deleted two minutes after I post them on this board now, why are the moderatores turning into big brother, similar to the staff members who censored our EVERY move, EVERY letter, EVERY phone call. This is an "open" forum, ISN'T IT??? Not cool Ginger..Word the fuck up!! :wink: "
At last, You actually do have something useful to say?
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Not "open" by ANY means, they are ALL full of shit, and shady.
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Yes, I saw them too. PM Ginger and ask her about it. I seriously doubt its her. As I stated above, I called her when I saw it to ask about it. She's not home. What's the problem with going directly to her and asking her about it?
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On 2006-01-12 13:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My post 2 min ago was deleted. I stated that 3 posts i read 30 min ago were gone. Now this last one is gone too. WTF!"
On 2006-01-12 13:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes, I saw them too. PM Ginger and ask her about it. I seriously doubt its her. As I stated above, I called her when I saw it to ask about it. She's not home. What's the problem with going directly to her and asking her about it?"
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I saw the post about that hacker that just disappeared also. Something is going on but it ain't Ginger.
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Watch the magic! POOF! THIS POST WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 30 SECONDS :lol:
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On 2006-01-12 14:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Watch the magic! POOF! THIS POST WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 30 SECONDS :lol: "
If it does, I've snagged it here.
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On 2006-01-12 14:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I posted 7 times, they are all gone within seconds!!~"
YES, we get it!! We see it too! That's why I'm snagging them! Have you messaged Ginger to ask about it?
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Login anon and check your PMs
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On 2006-01-12 14:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes I have! Notice the last post you snagged for me is GONE! WTF! I feel like im in a program again with people taking away what I say if they don't see it fit."
Did you also see that I've called Ginger to ask her about it? She ain't fucking home!!! It ain't her!!!
Hacker
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On 2006-01-12 14:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Login anon and check your PMs"
Which anon? :lol:
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You
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On 2006-01-12 14:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why do I sense that the person that's telling me "it ain't Ginger" IS Ginger herself! :wave: "
Think what you want. I'm not Ginger. Try calling her yourself.
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On 2006-01-12 14:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Like I have her number! Oh well, the very place thats supposed to help people get over the abuse and scrutiny of programs they endured, are doing the SAME SHIT!I'm out."
It's not hard to find on Fornits.
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On 2006-01-12 14:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Like I have her number! Oh well, the very place thats supposed to help people get over the abuse and scrutiny of programs they endured, are doing the SAME SHIT!I'm out."
It's right here....
http://www.fornits.com/contact.htm (http://www.fornits.com/contact.htm)
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On 2006-01-12 14:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why do I sense that the person that's telling me "it ain't Ginger" IS Ginger herself! :wave: "
Why do I get the sense that you've got something to do with these disappearing posts?
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I have NOTHING to do with the missing posts bro, why the fuck would I delete my own posts??? Anyway, it's impossible unless you have access to the server!
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On 2006-01-12 14:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have NOTHING to do with the missing posts bro, why the fuck would I delete my own posts??? Anyway, it's impossible unless you have access to the server! "
Fine if you're not, it was just odd that yours seem to be the only posts disappearing. Contact Ginger and Deb, Deb's the Mod of the HLA forum.
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Mine are missing because Ginger doesn't like my opinions! So, she hastily deletes them one by one, usually SECONDS after I initially post them. Bottom line.
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Who moderates this forum?
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Ginger is not deleting your messages.
Select a username and I'll discuss it with you.
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On 2006-01-12 14:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Who moderates this forum?"
Deborah. http://www.fornits.com/wwf/bb_profile.p ... w&user=359 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/bb_profile.php?mode=view&user=359)
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On 2006-01-12 14:52:00, Deborah wrote:
"
Ginger is not deleting your messages.
Select a username and I'll discuss it with you.
"
Very uncool of you to let Ginger take the heat for it. I saw you the entire time parked in the HLA forum, you HAD to have seen what was going on. Why did you not speak up?
Better question why on earth, with all the uproar lately about censorship and missing posts, would you do something like this?
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So Deb was playing Hitler! Oh!!!
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Good evening Devin, how are you?
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On 2006-01-12 14:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have NOTHING to do with the missing posts bro, why the fuck would I delete my own posts??? Anyway, it's impossible unless you have access to the server! "
Listen, it's not censorship. You haven't been saying anything but yang. I personally told you before to start a thread of your liking and say whatever you want. This site has a stated policy that spamming won't be allowed.
We've had this talk before. There's important information that gets buried by all that spam, and, in my opinion, that information's not being readily available leads directly to kids being placed in harm's way. I know you understand that because you've told me as much before.
Please, start a new thread and post whatever you want. I'll read and contribute. But you just can't go on relentlessly spamming this forum that Deborah has worked really hard for years to build (thanklessly and without compensation I might add). That's really uncool and totally uncalled for, not to mention unfair.
When you get a chance, please drop me a PM. I want to talk to you about a few things privately, ok? Thanks.
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I have had two posts removed from this sight today. Something weird is going on.
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Notice how I spelled "sight"? I am sure that let's all of you geniuses know exactly who I am. Ha Ha.
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On 2006-01-12 16:10:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2006-01-12 14:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have NOTHING to do with the missing posts bro, why the fuck would I delete my own posts??? Anyway, it's impossible unless you have access to the server! "
Listen, it's not censorship. You haven't been saying anything but yang. I personally told you before to start a thread of your liking and say whatever you want. This site has a stated policy that spamming won't be allowed.
We've had this talk before. There's important information that gets buried by all that spam, and, in my opinion, that information's not being readily available leads directly to kids being placed in harm's way. I know you understand that because you've told me as much before.
Please, start a new thread and post whatever you want. I'll read and contribute. But you just can't go on relentlessly spamming this forum that Deborah has worked really hard for years to build (thanklessly and without compensation I might add). That's really uncool and totally uncalled for, not to mention unfair.
When you get a chance, please drop me a PM. I want to talk to you about a few things privately, ok? Thanks.
"
Sure thing Champ.
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I spoke to him a few days ago, he seems good.
Why are you crying about us shutting up your pointless comments. You didnt have a problem with Kathleen employing the same tactic.
Again typical staff behavior, cry when your own tricks are used against you.
:scared:
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On 2006-01-12 16:20:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"I spoke to him a few days ago, he seems good.
Why are you crying about us shutting up your pointless comments. You didnt have a problem with Kathleen employing the same tactic.
Again typical staff behavior, cry when your own tricks are used against you.
:scared: "
Fuck off man, you are nothing but a shady dude who makes the same posts time after time. Stop crying and take action.
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How old ARE you Devin?
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Fuck off man, you are nothing but a shady dude who makes the same posts time after time. Stop crying and take action.>>>
And what are you doing troll? That's the longest sentence you've put together on this forum so far except for whining, "What happened to my posts. ::mecry:: Wah, someone deleted them. I should be allowed to post "shut up, suck my dick. Your just like the program. ::mecry:: " time and time again.
How does the shoe feel on the other foot you fucking nut job?
Why don't you contribute something useful or shut the fuck up yourself, you whiny ass spoled brat.
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On 2006-01-12 21:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Fuck off man, you are nothing but a shady dude who makes the same posts time after time. Stop crying and take action.>>>
And what are you doing troll? That's the longest sentence you've put together on this forum so far except for whining, "What happened to my posts. ::mecry:: Wah, someone deleted them. I should be allowed to post "shut up, suck my dick. Your just like the program. ::mecry:: " time and time again.
How does the shoe feel on the other foot you fucking nut job?
Why don't you contribute something useful or shut the fuck up yourself, you whiny ass spoled brat.
"
I am personally glad that whoever runs this board is not allowing rediculous comments to be put on here anymore. It is an acknowledgement that HLA was doing the right thing the from the beginning by not allowing the same thing to happen on their board.
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On 2006-01-13 06:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-12 21:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Fuck off man, you are nothing but a shady dude who makes the same posts time after time. Stop crying and take action.>>>
And what are you doing troll? That's the longest sentence you've put together on this forum so far except for whining, "What happened to my posts. ::mecry:: Wah, someone deleted them. I should be allowed to post "shut up, suck my dick. Your just like the program. ::mecry:: " time and time again.
How does the shoe feel on the other foot you fucking nut job?
Why don't you contribute something useful or shut the fuck up yourself, you whiny ass spoled brat.
"
I am personally glad that whoever runs this board is not allowing rediculous comments to be put on here anymore. It is an acknowledgement that HLA was doing the right thing the from the beginning by not allowing the same thing to happen on their board.
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You fail to see the difference. This board cleans up spam. HLA's board deletes posts form anyone who doesn't endorse HLA.
The important distinction is that you may dissent about whatever you want on this forum, so long as you don't flood or spam (waste bandwidth that costs money that you don't pay). On the HLA board, you are not allowed to make any comments that disagree with the moderators' opinions, even if they are documented facts.
Big difference. I'm sorry that your reasoning capacity is so small that you can't understand this salient point. I hope that my explanation was sufficient for you to understand it now. :roll:
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On 2006-01-13 06:55:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2006-01-13 06:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-12 21:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Fuck off man, you are nothing but a shady dude who makes the same posts time after time. Stop crying and take action.>>>
And what are you doing troll? That's the longest sentence you've put together on this forum so far except for whining, "What happened to my posts. ::mecry:: Wah, someone deleted them. I should be allowed to post "shut up, suck my dick. Your just like the program. ::mecry:: " time and time again.
How does the shoe feel on the other foot you fucking nut job?
Why don't you contribute something useful or shut the fuck up yourself, you whiny ass spoled brat.
"
I am personally glad that whoever runs this board is not allowing rediculous comments to be put on here anymore. It is an acknowledgement that HLA was doing the right thing the from the beginning by not allowing the same thing to happen on their board.
"
You fail to see the difference. This board cleans up spam. HLA's board deletes posts form anyone who doesn't endorse HLA.
The important distinction is that you may dissent about whatever you want on this forum, so long as you don't flood or spam (waste bandwidth that costs money that you don't pay). On the HLA board, you are not allowed to make any comments that disagree with the moderators' opinions, even if they are documented facts.
Big difference. I'm sorry that your reasoning capacity is so small that you can't understand this salient point. I hope that my explanation was sufficient for you to understand it now. :roll:
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But you are allowed to insult people on this board. I get it.
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yes, yes you got it. insults are allowed, provided it's mixed in amongst some reality intelligent discourse.
now you wouldn't be implying that you haven't insulted anyone, would you, Chump?
your a damn hoot.
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Word up.
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On 2006-01-12 07:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well, this isn't Aften, this is somene else, and I warn anyone that sends there child to HLA, it will cause many more problems than you already have. It may say They deal with ADHD and ADD, but they just shove pills down your mouth, and if that doesn't work then you just get in trouble. I went there at 14, never cursed at an adult, never fought with anyone, never been restraigned, or anything like that. I had ADD, and they didn't even figure that out until right before I left. So the entire time I was getting in trouble, just like I would in a regular school, when they were supposed to be helping me. The lady that checked me in there had told me I was the most polite girl she had ever met. and I had heard that a lot before then. About 3 months later, I was exactly like everyone else there. Cursing at all the staff, Being restraigned, on restrictions all the time. I wanted to tell my parents how miserable I was, but my counselors would convince my parents that I just had a bad day or a bad week, or manipulate them to think other wise."
Can any HLA staff please help this young person to understand why they were treated so shabbily at your treatment center? While you're at it, can you please answer a few questions that people have been asking you for the past few years that you have been refusing to answer?
Here's the first set, but I have more after you answer these, ok? Thanks a lot.
Why does HLA allegedly allow people to work there after they've had sex with their minor patients?
Or why does HLA take court ordered kids but lie to parents and say they don't?
Or how exactly does HLA cure homosexuality?
Or how does millieu control benefit children?
Or why does HLA illegally use forced labor to improve the campus as punishment?
Or why does HLA strip search children when they tell parents they don't?
Or why does HLA use confrontation and call it group therapy?
Or why does HLA not have a contact for grievances in violation of its accreditation?
Or why does HLA use Lifespring large group awareness seminars that have been completely discredited over twenty years ago?
Or what are your credentials to comment on HLA's program or policy?
Or why does HLA illegally accept children in violation of the ICPC?
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-01-26 15:24 ]
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On 2005-04-11 15:10:00, SHH Anon Classics wrote:
"Her user name is SHH
I dont know why they keep calling her Mrs Grey or Gray"
What do you call "her"?
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Oh this is just to fucking funny.
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On 2005-04-14 19:58:00, SHH Anon Classics wrote:
"Cows may come, and Cows may go, but the bull in this place goes on forever."
You got that right, Suzie. You're the source of it!
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"Let me make this abundantly clear, I was fine before HLA I had nothing in my life with which I harmed either myself nor anyone around me including my family. I had no behavioral, emotional or sexual issues. I had no violent tendencies nor was I ever invloved in something illegal."
Hi RobertBruce,
You say that you didn't have any problems before you went to HLA, and I believe you. I'm just curious, what did your parents/guardians perceive to be the problem, that made them send you to HLA? If you don't feel comfortable telling me, that's okay. I just can't believe a child would be sent to a place like this for no good reason - but of course, it sounds like Deborah's sons were sent away for no good reason.
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LM, if you read over some of the discussion in this forum and some of the others, you'll find a whole lot of debate right along the same lines as your question. Parents very frequently say, after the fact, that they only saw the glossy brochures and talked to entheusiastic parent support group members and they really and truely thought they were sending their kids to a strict, but wonderfully well appointed boarding school w/ therapy. Look at the way HLA describes markets itself in their web site:
http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/Counse ... grams.aspx (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/CounselingPrograms.aspx)
Looks like the perfect place for a kid who's not all that bad, but jepordizing a promising academic career or one who's not a criminal or a real danger to themselves or anyone, but just too much of a handful for regular school; the kind of kid who may need a firm hand and a little extra supervision.
That's how they sell it. And it's expensive and comes highly recomended by impressive people, so it must be good, right?
I think the best way to get an answer to your question is to try it yourself. Talk to the admissions people and to the edcons who place kids there. Describe a dangerous thug problem child and see what they say. Call back in a couple of days (or have someone else do it, they may be crazy but they ain't dumb) and describe a different kid, one who you know well doesn't need intensive, brutal reprograming, see what they say.
One of the worst in this industry (by some accounts, of course) was Elan in the `80's. In those days, they were taking foster care placements from Illanois and, I believe, other states. These were not ajudicated youths, but just kids who, for whatever reason, landed up in state custody and Elan cut them a deal to beat the usual costs of foster placement. They bit. There was one hell of a dustup and those state contracts went *poof*.
Of course, kids who really are in deep trouble and who do need some kind of guidance or therapy also land up in these places. In my opinion, they're so much more screwed than the ones who's prior behavior leaves them some credibility. They get the worst of it and no one but NO one will ever believe them. They're sitting ducks. It works the same way as a girl w/ a bad reputation trying to report a rape.
Our nada who art in nada, nada be thy name. Thy kingdom nada, thy will be nada as it is in nada. Give us this nada our daily nada and nada us our nada as we nada our nadas and nada us into nada but deliver us from nada; pues nada. Hail nothing full of nothing, nothing is with thee.
--Ernest Hemingway, American author
_________________
fka ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Why I Live at the PO
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I watched "A Clockwork Orange" last night for the first time in probably fifteen years.
In a twisted sense I saw many similarities to "the program." The lead character, a young man named Alex (played by Malcolm McDowell) was sent to prison for a series of fairly ghastly crimes culminating in the murder of a woman during a home invasion.
For his crimes he was sent to prison for 40 years. Alex was getting along fine in prison, even becoming a "model prisoner" who participated in Sunday services and became well-versed in religion and the Bible.
Unfortunately for the young man, 40 years was just too long to cool his heels, so he "volunteered" for a new program of Behavior Modification designed to stamp out violent and sexual urges. He is forced to watch violent and sexual movies while his eyelids are held open by wire devices after having been injected with an "experimental serum" that makes the subject violently ill when subjected to feelings surrounding sex or violence. There is no dialogue in the films he sees, but the score is Beethoven's 9th symphony, of which Alex was previously very fond.
Eventually he is released as "rehabilitated."
Upon returning to the "real world" he is confronted, of course, as we all are, with real life sexual and violent situations to which he has become singularly unable to cope. He becomes a crime victim twice over within hours of his release because he is unable to defend himself due to the physical sickness he experiences surrounding sex and violence, including when he himself is the victim of it.
After two violent episodes, of which he was the victim, he unwittingly, looking for aid for his injuries, stumbles into the home of one of his previous victims whom he does not recognize from the crime he commited against the man and his wife. The man, however, recognizes poor Alex and begins to plot against him in an attempt to use him as an example of crooked and cruel government with the aim of subversion. The man believes that if he can show that the government actually damaged the Behavior Modification subjects in cruel and irreversible ways, there would be an impetus to purge the "perpetrators" from governmental power.
Through some inquiry of Alex the man finds that Alex has become averse to Beethoven's 9th symphony as a side-effect of his Behavior Modification program.
The man locks Alex in a room and begins to play the 9th so that Alex cannot escape from its sickening effect, leaving him only one way out: "snuffing" himself. To this end, Alex hurls himself from the third story window in an attempted suicide. The attempt turns out to be unsuccessful.
Alex is later sent to a hospital where he is de-programmed from his "Behavior Modified" state through intensive therapy and some invasive surgery.
In the end, Alex reverts to fantasies of "the ultra violence" and deems himself "cured."
Now, what is the point of the story? There are a few. One, tinkering with the human mind with experimental psychology (or proven destructive techniques like our programs today) is dangerous. Two, it has unintended consequences which strip the subject of the ability to function normally in society, even though the program proponents say the subject is "cured" or "fixed." Three, it takes intensive deprogramming to return the subject to a functioning level. And lastly, "you never know what you're gonna get in the end."
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Hence the title of Wes Fager's online book, A Clockwork Straight
Warning! Wes is fond spinny graphics and background music. If you're quick, you can it the stop button before it starts.To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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On 2006-01-28 07:47:00, Eudora wrote:
"Hence the title of Wes Fager's online book, A Clockwork Straight
Warning! Wes is fond spinny graphics and background music. If you're quick, you can it the stop button before it starts.To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
"
Very interesting.
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On 2006-01-28 05:40:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"I watched "A Clockwork Orange" last night for the first time in probably fifteen years.
In a twisted sense I saw many similarities to "the program." The lead character, a young man named Alex (played by Malcolm McDowell) was sent to prison for a series of fairly ghastly crimes culminating in the murder of a woman during a home invasion.
For his crimes he was sent to prison for 40 years. Alex was getting along fine in prison, even becoming a "model prisoner" who participated in Sunday services and became well-versed in religion and the Bible.
Unfortunately for the young man, 40 years was just too long to cool his heels, so he "volunteered" for a new program of Behavior Modification designed to stamp out violent and sexual urges. He is forced to watch violent and sexual movies while his eyelids are held open by wire devices after having been injected with an "experimental serum" that makes the subject violently ill when subjected to feelings surrounding sex or violence. There is no dialogue in the films he sees, but the score is Beethoven's 9th symphony, of which Alex was previously very fond.
Eventually he is released as "rehabilitated."
Upon returning to the "real world" he is confronted, of course, as we all are, with real life sexual and violent situations to which he has become singularly unable to cope. He becomes a crime victim twice over within hours of his release because he is unable to defend himself due to the physical sickness he experiences surrounding sex and violence, including when he himself is the victim of it.
After two violent episodes, of which he was the victim, he unwittingly, looking for aid for his injuries, stumbles into the home of one of his previous victims whom he does not recognize from the crime he commited against the man and his wife. The man, however, recognizes poor Alex and begins to plot against him in an attempt to use him as an example of crooked and cruel government with the aim of subversion. The man believes that if he can show that the government actually damaged the Behavior Modification subjects in cruel and irreversible ways, there would be an impetus to purge the "perpetrators" from governmental power.
Through some inquiry of Alex the man finds that Alex has become averse to Beethoven's 9th symphony as a side-effect of his Behavior Modification program.
The man locks Alex in a room and begins to play the 9th so that Alex cannot escape from its sickening effect, leaving him only one way out: "snuffing" himself. To this end, Alex hurls himself from the third story window in an attempted suicide. The attempt turns out to be unsuccessful.
Alex is later sent to a hospital where he is de-programmed from his "Behavior Modified" state through intensive therapy and some invasive surgery.
In the end, Alex reverts to fantasies of "the ultra violence" and deems himself "cured."
Now, what is the point of the story? There are a few. One, tinkering with the human mind with experimental psychology (or proven destructive techniques like our programs today) is dangerous. Two, it has unintended consequences which strip the subject of the ability to function normally in society, even though the program proponents say the subject is "cured" or "fixed." Three, it takes intensive deprogramming to return the subject to a functioning level. And lastly, "you never know what you're gonna get in the end."
"
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Hey. I'm fairly sure I remember this lady... Sort of. I remember that she had no relationship of any kind with us (the students --to use that word rather loosely). I just found this website today, and I have to say that I'm really curious why in the heck "SHH" would have any interest in it. What do you hope to accomplish by bickering endlessly with people over the internet? If you're determined to do this for your own entertainment, why pick a topic with no relationship to you? Honestly, why not argue about something else. I think you're obsessing, and I don't think it sounds like much fun.
I have an idea: why not take up crochet instead? At least that produces a positive result.
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Care to share any of your thoughts/feelings/insight, etc. about your experience at HLA, captmyke?
Yes, you're right. SHH had nothing to do with anything even remotely associated with the daily lives of the kids, she has no understanding of how the "program" works, has never even seen a "reals" group or a workshop and yet she is one of HLA's staunchest supporters. I also cannot deign to tell you why this is.
Welcome, and thanks for taking your time to post.
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Well I have my reasons for wanting to say things about the school. I know some dont agree with that, but whatever. When were you there? I lived on campus for 4 years but moved away when I got divorced.
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Well I have my reasons for wanting to say things about the school.
I'm all ears. You have never really explained yourself in this respect and I'd certainly like to hear it.
I do think you'd have a more realistic baseline understanding if you knew how the "program" works (or, in this case, doesn't work), but I'd be interested to hear what makes it so attractive to someone with only cursory knowledge of how it is applied.
What's the hook?
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Still waiting... No answers yet. What's the hook?
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Whats interesting is that Cybie who has claimed since day one that she is not in communication with HLA nor does she even know if the staff views this website, miraculously disappears the same time as the staff does.
And all because the lawsuit tactic comes to light.
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Steve, as I said earlier this year when someone asked me this question, I found this site when I was looking for any info (good and bad) about HLA because I had a friend in Louisiana with a teen who was having problems and I thought the school might be able to help him. I already knew about the school from another point of view(Mine, former employee, former resident on campus, former wife of current employee) but wanted to find out other's opinions, etc, and this came up in my google search. I was already aware of the fornits board having a seed discussion section but wasnt aware that it had one for HLA. When I started reading this and the amazing forums board I was kind of shocked at the anger and comments. I hadnt heard much of anything really negative from students, through the grapevine, from staff, or from townsfolk previous to this. I felt that in alot of ways the school was getting a bad rap and knew that some of what was being said was being blown out of proportion. So I felt in a personal way I should share my perspective and my point of view on the school. Obviously, it was not appreciated, nor welcomed. But, nonetheless, I felt it was necessary. Some on here feel I was either sent here by the school, or asked to come on here by the school, or being told what to say. None of that is true. Anyway, I feel at this point it doesnt really matter what I say because it will be tossed around and ridiculed like other comments. Some on here feel that every comment I make is a lie, which it is not. But it doesnt really matter, I was trying to make a point and that point was lost in the immaturity and insults that this board seems to attract. I made a mistake in trying to voice my side of the situation because that is not the side that anybody wants to hear on this site. But, it doesnt really matter anyway, because people will believe what they want to believe and not necessarily what the truth is. As far as questions that some are asking on here...there are alot of those that I am not in a position to know how to answer, so if Robert in particular asks me to answer those, I will have to defer to someone else on those particular ones. Ask someone else those questions.
Did that answer your question Steve?
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Robert I have nothing to do with lawsuits, the school, or those employees posting. I have been dealing with some crap here at home and havent felt like posting lately. Nothing mysterious about that, just didnt feel like it.
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On 2006-02-01 16:32:00, SHH wrote:
"Steve, as I said earlier this year when someone asked me this question, I found this site when I was looking for any info (good and bad) about HLA because I had a friend in Louisiana with a teen who was having problems and I thought the school might be able to help him. I already knew about the school from another point of view(Mine, former employee, former resident on campus, former wife of current employee) but wanted to find out other's opinions, etc, and this came up in my google search. I was already aware of the fornits board having a seed discussion section but wasnt aware that it had one for HLA. When I started reading this and the amazing forums board I was kind of shocked at the anger and comments. I hadnt heard much of anything really negative from students, through the grapevine, from staff, or from townsfolk previous to this. I felt that in alot of ways the school was getting a bad rap and knew that some of what was being said was being blown out of proportion. So I felt in a personal way I should share my perspective and my point of view on the school. Obviously, it was not appreciated, nor welcomed. But, nonetheless, I felt it was necessary. Some on here feel I was either sent here by the school, or asked to come on here by the school, or being told what to say. None of that is true. Anyway, I feel at this point it doesnt really matter what I say because it will be tossed around and ridiculed like other comments. Some on here feel that every comment I make is a lie, which it is not. But it doesnt really matter, I was trying to make a point and that point was lost in the immaturity and insults that this board seems to attract. I made a mistake in trying to voice my side of the situation because that is not the side that anybody wants to hear on this site. But, it doesnt really matter anyway, because people will believe what they want to believe and not necessarily what the truth is. As far as questions that some are asking on here...there are alot of those that I am not in a position to know how to answer, so if Robert in particular asks me to answer those, I will have to defer to someone else on those particular ones. Ask someone else those questions.
Did that answer your question Steve?"
Well, no, not really. I was wondering more about what makes you so strong a supporter of something you really know very, very little about. Since you can't really have any cogent idea about what goes on behind closed doors there, it makes me wonder why you so easily discount accounts from both students and staff who really do know what happens on the inside.
What's the hook for you?
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On 2006-02-01 16:32:00, SHH wrote:
"Steve, as I said earlier this year when someone asked me this question, I found this site when I was looking for any info (good and bad) about HLA because I had a friend in Louisiana with a teen who was having problems and I thought the school might be able to help him. I already knew about the school from another point of view(Mine, former employee, former resident on campus, former wife of current employee) but wanted to find out other's opinions, etc, and this came up in my google search. I was already aware of the fornits board having a seed discussion section but wasnt aware that it had one for HLA. When I started reading this and the amazing forums board I was kind of shocked at the anger and comments. I hadnt heard much of anything really negative from students, through the grapevine, from staff, or from townsfolk previous to this. I felt that in alot of ways the school was getting a bad rap and knew that some of what was being said was being blown out of proportion. So I felt in a personal way I should share my perspective and my point of view on the school. Obviously, it was not appreciated, nor welcomed. But, nonetheless, I felt it was necessary. Some on here feel I was either sent here by the school, or asked to come on here by the school, or being told what to say. None of that is true. Anyway, I feel at this point it doesnt really matter what I say because it will be tossed around and ridiculed like other comments. Some on here feel that every comment I make is a lie, which it is not. But it doesnt really matter, I was trying to make a point and that point was lost in the immaturity and insults that this board seems to attract. I made a mistake in trying to voice my side of the situation because that is not the side that anybody wants to hear on this site. But, it doesnt really matter anyway, because people will believe what they want to believe and not necessarily what the truth is. As far as questions that some are asking on here...there are alot of those that I am not in a position to know how to answer, so if Robert in particular asks me to answer those, I will have to defer to someone else on those particular ones. Ask someone else those questions.
Did that answer your question Steve?"
You claim to be shocked regarding the statements on here because you hadnt heard any such information in your own personal experience?
Cybie you have no frame of reference to go on. Since you had nothing to do with the school, nor any knowledge of what the school was like how would you be in a position to know what the normal post HLA feeling is? As to the townspeople, as you can see from the article thats been posted the people in Dahlonega apparently arent quite as thrilled about HLA as youd like to believe. Tell us what specific things you feel were being blown out of proportion. Actual statements. You question our maturity level, Cybie look at your own comments when you thought you could hide, you have behaved like a child dont judge others now. As well you claim we didnt want to hear your perspective. Not at all true, we wanted you to be honest and answer the questions put to you. You refused thus you were ridiculed and rightly so. Not every comment you make on here is a lie, but a good many of them are. You cannot deny that. Remember Cybie the truth is on our side not yours, no whining and crying will change that. Furthermore there are STILL a number of question you have not had the courage to answer, get to them. These are questions that specifically pertain to your own statements. Not ones you can claim ignorance on.
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SHH,
You are entitled to your opinions. Contrary to your comment, I believe that if a "point" is useful, it doesn't get lost in the "immaturity and insults". I really don't understand what you are trying to relate with that comment.
My primary beef with you was the arrogance you demonstrated when you presumed to guess/assume about my parental rights. I considered that extremely rude.
Which leads to my general beef. No matter what a person says, you rebut it, and most times have ultimately shown how little you actually know about the topic, not the least being the discussion about racism in Dahlonega. Let's not go there again, but it's a prime example.
I've asked you on a number of ocassions to identify an exaggeration and attach it to a specific person. You make broad generalities about the 'people on this forum'. That kinda sets you up as a target for all those people.
Personally, I think you should share your opinions, answer the questions you choose to answer. You entered this forum kinda slapping people around. The response you got really shouldn't surprise you? You were rude, and if someone less generous than Ginger own the forum, you'd probably have been banned after about a week.
Hope your family are well.
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On 2006-02-01 16:42:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
Well, no, not really. I was wondering more about what makes you so strong a supporter of something you really know very, very little about. Since you can't really have any cogent idea about what goes on behind closed doors there, it makes me wonder why you so easily discount accounts from both students and staff who really do know what happens on the inside.
What's the hook for you?
"
"
On 2006-02-01 16:32:00, SHH wrote:
"Steve, as I said earlier this year when someone asked me this question, I found this site when I was looking for any info (good and bad) about HLA because I had a friend in Louisiana with a teen who was having problems and I thought the school might be able to help him.
Did that answer your question Steve?"
Yup. Or at least I think you insinuate the answer. The kid went on your highly vaunted recomendation, now you can't afford to see.
Close?I don't go lookin' for trouble. I just keep a little in a box should someone come by who is.
--Bill Warbis
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Not even close. I never told them the school was a perfect fit, nor did I do anything other than give them a phone number and the website address to contact them directly. I never was in the position of diagnosing teens, and she was in the process of having him diagnosed in Louisiana. But he never ended up going to HLA. He stayed in Louisiana and went to an outpatient center of some kind that was run by some sort of religious organization.
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Damn another one lost.
When are you going to answer those questions?
Do you need the link....again?
Remember Cybie they are questions that pertain specifically to statements YOU made. Not ones you can pass off on.
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Hey Bruce, it's actually refreshing to see you tonight, brother.
SHORT LIL BUS
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Posted: 2006-02-08 13:54:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All I know is that my little sister was sent there almost 2 yrs ago and that was the last time I saw her or heard from her. She's not getting my mail, as none of the small checks I sent her were cashed. I can't call her, they just hang up on me or pretend to take a message. The sad part is that my sister never did anything wrong, never once got in trouble, never suspended, arrested, never talks back, never even got a detention at school. She's being punished for being born, as her (our) crappy parents don't want her. The lack of contact is ridiculuous and cruel. How is that therapeutic?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I copied this from the HLA thread in the TTI forum.
This is absolutely fucking heartbreaking.
Truth, can you find out what's going on here and see why this kid can't talk to her sister? Maybe she can PM you?
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Are you sure she is still there? Not all the kids stay there for 2 years, some do, but not all. When I was there usually there was a list of relatives the kids could have contact with. I am surprised her brother was not one on the list. Can you find out from your parents why you werent on the list? Or are you not talking to them?
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Bullfrog again you pretend to have some understanding or knowledge of life at HLA.
Its been proven time and time again you dont have a clue. Let the grownups talk about this please Bullfrog. Why dont you go entertain yourself by thinking about all the disabled relatives you take care of.
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On 2006-02-08 15:19:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Posted: 2006-02-08 13:54:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All I know is that my little sister was sent there almost 2 yrs ago and that was the last time I saw her or heard from her. She's not getting my mail, as none of the small checks I sent her were cashed. I can't call her, they just hang up on me or pretend to take a message. The sad part is that my sister never did anything wrong, never once got in trouble, never suspended, arrested, never talks back, never even got a detention at school. She's being punished for being born, as her (our) crappy parents don't want her. The lack of contact is ridiculuous and cruel. How is that therapeutic?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I copied this from the HLA thread in the TTI forum.
This is absolutely fucking heartbreaking.
Truth, can you find out what's going on here and see why this kid can't talk to her sister? Maybe she can PM you?
"
What about this????
-
On 2006-02-09 14:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-02-08 15:19:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Posted: 2006-02-08 13:54:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All I know is that my little sister was sent there almost 2 yrs ago and that was the last time I saw her or heard from her. She's not getting my mail, as none of the small checks I sent her were cashed. I can't call her, they just hang up on me or pretend to take a message. The sad part is that my sister never did anything wrong, never once got in trouble, never suspended, arrested, never talks back, never even got a detention at school. She's being punished for being born, as her (our) crappy parents don't want her. The lack of contact is ridiculuous and cruel. How is that therapeutic?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I copied this from the HLA thread in the TTI forum.
This is absolutely fucking heartbreaking.
Truth, can you find out what's going on here and see why this kid can't talk to her sister? Maybe she can PM you?
"
What about this????"
Absolutely have her PM me. None of this sounds familiar, and it would surprise me if it were true, but I would be happy to look into it.
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On 2006-02-10 06:08:00, HLA Truth wrote:
"
On 2006-02-09 14:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-02-08 15:19:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Posted: 2006-02-08 13:54:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All I know is that my little sister was sent there almost 2 yrs ago and that was the last time I saw her or heard from her. She's not getting my mail, as none of the small checks I sent her were cashed. I can't call her, they just hang up on me or pretend to take a message. The sad part is that my sister never did anything wrong, never once got in trouble, never suspended, arrested, never talks back, never even got a detention at school. She's being punished for being born, as her (our) crappy parents don't want her. The lack of contact is ridiculuous and cruel. How is that therapeutic?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I copied this from the HLA thread in the TTI forum.
This is absolutely fucking heartbreaking.
Truth, can you find out what's going on here and see why this kid can't talk to her sister? Maybe she can PM you?
"
What about this????"
Absolutely have her PM me. None of this sounds familiar, and it would surprise me if it were true, but I would be happy to look into it."
Thanks, Truth. I don't have direct contact, but I've solicited a response on another thread. Hopefully I'll get one and we can go from there.
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All you will accomplish by letting him know who it is is to get the girl in trouble. I saw this situation play out I dont know how many times while there.
Shes going to be dragged onto the carpet and accused of "manipulating".
You cant work within the system to accomplish much there.
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please help im at at hidden lake academy right now and weird things are going on right now. A lot of staff are getting fired and the students are running away. many kids are getting sent to "lockdown" and wilderness. Why is this place still running? How is this legal? I cant even talk to my family when something is really wrong. My "counselor" is dishonest and underground with my parents and saying that I am manipulating them.. please help
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On 2006-02-13 07:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"please help im at at hidden lake academy right now and weird things are going on right now. A lot of staff are getting fired and the students are running away. many kids are getting sent to "lockdown" and wilderness. Why is this place still running? How is this legal? I cant even talk to my family when something is really wrong. My "counselor" is dishonest and underground with my parents and saying that I am manipulating them.. please help"
your out of agreement, Truth.
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On 2006-02-13 07:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"please help im at at hidden lake academy right now and weird things are going on right now. A lot of staff are getting fired and the students are running away. many kids are getting sent to "lockdown" and wilderness. Why is this place still running? How is this legal? I cant even talk to my family when something is really wrong. My "counselor" is dishonest and underground with my parents and saying that I am manipulating them.. please help"
Wheter or not this post is "real," I have heard that all of these events are actually happening at an accelerated rate recently.
The facility seems to be unstable financially and is shedding payroll and kids who aren't paying "full rate" tuition.
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If you are real, get to a phone, call "CNN" and ask for an investigative reporter..
Tell them, this is an emergency...Tell them your
'human rights' are being violated, plead for help..
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If you cannot get to a phone....computer..
CNN Atlanta Tips, will bring up site..E-MAIL
them...then erase...
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Sorry, this post lost
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Sorry, this post lost
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hla is the worst school anyone could ever fathom. I was one of the few people to ever go there that got diagnosed with "no mental problems, real life issues" and i/the campus was treated like total shit. the school teaches absolutely NO independence. for example- if u dont do your homework- u get to avoid 'restrictions' for part of the afternoon by talking in air conditioned rooms eating candy. restrictions are rigged- i once lost a vacation break because i passed a packet of sugar to my friend. there is no good reasononing for that. i also watched a jean claude van dam movie called bloodsport and me and some friends shouted 'comete' (the fight tournament hook name) whenever we saw eachother- and got put on 2 weeks of restrictions for "glorifiying violence". i had never done drugs before taht school- but being around kids telling great tales about drugs influenced me to smoke pot/eatshrooms/smoke opium/ and do speed dreams- the food was horrible and the sandwhich meets were almost impossible to eat and left out for over 24 hours sometimes. they manipulate your parents with confusing ideas and are hard to root out until far after the program is over.
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On 2005-04-06 21:24:00, Deborah wrote:
"
Based on my experience:
<
<
I would also like to see an honest survey of how many kids actually leave campus for those fun events in Atlanta, or Dahlonega for that matter. And how many are 'fun' and how many are actually 'community service'- uh, that's 'punishment'. If those pro games and other events actually do happen, only the kids who are performing 'perfectly' will be attending. My guess, that's a very small percentage- if any at all. You can put any event you want on the calendar.
-----------------It's not even kids who are doing perfect- its the kids that are willing to sell their morals to join certain "priveledge" groups, that are only joinable if a) the staff do an anonymous vote on you (some staff hold grudges- impossible for students with poor starts, literally) b) do volunteer communuty service in times which i would want to lift/listen to music/ concentrate on myself.
c) suck up to staff, not even lying.
---- i tried to become a dorm head (up to 5-6 of them at a time) about roughly 12 times,i honestly wanted it, wanted to feel like i was doing something useful there- due to the staff's original impression of me and how poor the school develops character- i never got an interview- at all. everyone one in the dorm respected me and i might as well of been a dorm head- i was elected as dorm president by the students for 2 yrs straight.
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On 2006-03-01 11:32:00, ap47 wrote:
"hla is the worst school anyone could ever fathom. I was one of the few people to ever go there that got diagnosed with "no mental problems, real life issues" and i/the campus was treated like total shit. the school teaches absolutely NO independence. for example- if u dont do your homework- u get to avoid 'restrictions' for part of the afternoon by talking in air conditioned rooms eating candy. restrictions are rigged- i once lost a vacation break because i passed a packet of sugar to my friend. there is no good reasononing for that. i also watched a jean claude van dam movie called bloodsport and me and some friends shouted 'comete' (the fight tournament hook name) whenever we saw eachother- and got put on 2 weeks of restrictions for "glorifiying violence". i had never done drugs before taht school- but being around kids telling great tales about drugs influenced me to smoke pot/eatshrooms/smoke opium/ and do speed dreams- the food was horrible and the sandwhich meets were almost impossible to eat and left out for over 24 hours sometimes. they manipulate your parents with confusing ideas and are hard to root out until far after the program is over."
"u get to avoid 'restrictions' for part of the afternoon by talking in air conditioned rooms eating candy." What do you mean by this? It sounds like this is more of a reward than a restriction.
Can you tell us a bit more, such as what your parents thought was the problem that made them send you away? Did you ever see a professional who took your history and tried to determine if there was a problem/what the problem was?
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If you?d rather not share your PG#, can you share what years you were there?
What was restrictions like when you were there? Diet, physical work, isolation from peers? I?ve heard other mention ?super restrictions?. What is that?
What rule did ?passing a sugar packet? break? Why not restrictions instead of loosing a vacation break?
LMJ, I think s/he meant that if you did your homework you could get out of restrictions work for a few hours in the afternoon.
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HLA says that a student is not on restrictions outdoors for more than 1 1/2Hours...anyone care to refute that claim...?
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Right here. That is in fact a lie.
If HLA makes that claim unless serious changes have been made they are in fact liars.
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Sorry - I forgot to sign in - and I was sloppy with my English. I meant to say:
You're out of your Truth agreement. Trust me on this - my son went to RMA (CEDU). As a result, he truly is the perfect son. I know a lot of people think their sons or daughters are perfect, but mine really is.
RMA saved him from the bad decisions he was making - and HLA can save you, as well. You are manipulating your parents and these haplesss strangers here. You should be ashamed of yourself. If you would accept the excellent counseling and guidance they give you there, you could be perfect like my son. And pay no attention to the posters in the CEDU thread - the ones who are angry with CEDU. They don't really have a problem with CEDU - they are angry that they did not turn out perfect like my son.
If you accept all the help HLA is offering to you, you will be able to enjoy all the riches and rewards of being perfect that my son and I enjoy. I am fortunate to have been born perfect - but my son needed help to reach my level.
I will be opening my own school eventually. I invite you to be my first resident when the doors are opened. Keep your eyes open - I'll post the address here. In the mean time, understand that your staff members and counselors are perfect and understand absolute truth. If you feel confused or angry, if they seem to be intentionally trying to provoke you, you are not understanding their professonalism and their superior skills. If you are fortunate, some day you will.
In the meantime, hope and pray that you will some day be able to reap the benefits of perfection that my son and I enjoy.
Annie S. Hall
"Gentiana"
"ottawa5"
Have a nice day!
:wave:
On 2006-02-13 10:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-02-13 07:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"please help im at at hidden lake academy right now and weird things are going on right now. A lot of staff are getting fired and the students are running away. many kids are getting sent to "lockdown" and wilderness. Why is this place still running? How is this legal? I cant even talk to my family when something is really wrong. My "counselor" is dishonest and underground with my parents and saying that I am manipulating them.. please help"
your out of agreement, Truth. "
-
the sad part is many of them really do feel that way.
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i was in pg57.
the claim that kids on restrictions are not outside for more than 1 1/2 hours is a blatant lie. On the weekends restrictions conventionally lasts from around 8:15 am to 10:00 pm.... thats way more than 1 1/2 hours.
My description of students avoiding restrictions in air conditioned classrooms eating candy- What im saying is if YOU ARE ON restriction, u can get out of about 1 1/2 hours of the work if u make urself "incomplete".
The sugar passing broke a "manipulation" rule, because i was "manipulating" the kitchen staff by taking sugar i didnt want and giving it to a friend....doesnt make much sense. anyhow- they soon got rid of the rule, which they never announced its presence in the first place.
Your contact with your parents is greatly skewed- when I first arrived at HLA, during winter - I was on restrictions for a straight 1 month duration- during this time my diet was horrible, and I lost many pounds: I chose to write about this in a letter and I was put on restrictions for manipulation. Basically all you can do in letters is talk about the good aspects of HLA and about how u have problems.
I was sent to HLA as a last-second resort because I was ditching school too much and approached the failing absence limit.
All information at HLA is skewed by staff/teachers/and students who are currently there willing to bend the truth to become members of such groups as "stars" "Student council" in which they get free off campus trips.
I won a mathematics competition for HLA, 1st place meet score, I was asked to write an article for the paper and to make a speech. The article i submitted was replaced by one written by a teacher- and I was told right before my speech exactly what I had to say to the student body.
edit: Annie hall, if your son was "perfect" he wouldnt of been there in the first place. "Perfect" is a word that has no meaning when it comes to teens. For your information I personally have had contact with 4/5's members of "STARS" (highest priviledge group based on how they work with the program) and most of them are doing drugs behind their parents backs, and lives are maybe even worse before HLA took part on them.
HLA is a school that will not only fail to fix your childrens problems, but will show them a world of loneliness, tyranny, hatred, and some of the worst youth's of america.
I was in a room for about 2 weeks and I was forced to participate in an action called "Speed dreams", I "had a choice" but in reality i didnt. I could tell on them, and then become a center of negative attention for the rest of my time there, adding more loneliness to my already shattered world. There is no way a human can go through such drama and live life in a perfect fashion.[ This Message was edited by: ap47 on 2006-03-03 11:05 ]
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Speed Dreams? Haven't heard that term. What is it?
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a speed dream is where u hyperventalite very quickly for about 10-30 seconds then u grasp ur throat with both hands- cutting off air- passing u out for a small amount of time- in which u have a vivid dream.
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Does anyone know where he got his Psychology
Degree from..????.No one can find it.
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What do you mean "nobody can find it?" Where would it be? On the internet somewhere? Its probably framed in his office :grin: Seriously, He would have received it years ago...sometime in the mid 70s I think. I remember him talking about when he went to school, and I know it was in Georgia somewhere, but I am not sure if it was Univ of Georgia or Georgia State because he mentioned both schools in the conversations.
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We will find it....
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Anyone can hang a shingle, let's wait and see...
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On 2006-03-03 17:14:00, ap47 wrote:
"a speed dream is where u hyperventalite very quickly for about 10-30 seconds then u grasp ur throat with both hands- cutting off air- passing u out for a small amount of time- in which u have a vivid dream."
Interesting. Is that a common practice? Do kids do it to escape boredom or for the 'dream'? What kind of 'dreams' do you have, and how long do they last? What risks are associated with it?
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If that is what I am understanding you are describing...this is something I have read about that kids do as young as age 8 and 9, and it is VERY dangerous. You can die from this form of activity.Did you and the other kids at HLA do this on purpose out of your own choice or did someone tell you to do this?
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No - you can't die from squeezing your own neck with your hands after hyperventiating. It takes having ANOTHER PERSON hold your neck. What happens when you hyperventilate is that you pass out. Your hands would let go.
It is a completely stupid thing to do. You could fall and strike your head.
On 2006-03-04 06:32:00, SHH wrote:
"If that is what I am understanding you are describing...this is something I have read about that kids do as young as age 8 and 9, and it is VERY dangerous. You can die from this form of activity.Did you and the other kids at HLA do this on purpose out of your own choice or did someone tell you to do this? "
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Ahem. I know what post I wrote and you do, too.
As for my son being perfect, you did not read my post carefully. I said that CEDU allowed him to realize and achieve his own perfection. Everyone in our family is perfect, especially me. I am the most perfect person you could ever hope to meet. My daughter is perfect, too. Only my ex-husband, who is the devil, is not perfect. He could not tolerate the contrast between his failings and my perfection, which is why he left me for another woman. Had he been able to truly appreciate how perfect I am, he never would have left me.
My son is perfect NOW. He simply was prevented by his own imperfect decisions from being perfect. Now he is. We all enjoy our perfect lives and our perfection. And I enjoy coming to these boards and letting people know that if they have any problem whatsoever with any of these schools, it it their own weakness and failings that prevent them from achieving the joys and rewards of perfection that I do.
I hope this is clear now. If not, look for posts by ottawa5 and you will be able to appreciate how perfect I am. Not Ottawa 5. ottawa5. You'll all be dazzled at my perfection.
On 2006-03-03 11:00:00, ap47 wrote:
"i was in pg57.
edit: Annie hall, if your son was "perfect" he wouldnt of been there in the first place. "Perfect" is a word that has no meaning when it comes to teens. For your information I personally have had contact with 4/5's members of "STARS" (highest priviledge group based on how they work with the program) and most of them are doing drugs behind their parents backs, and lives are maybe even worse before HLA took part on them.
HLA is a school that will not only fail to fix your childrens problems, but will show them a world of loneliness, tyranny, hatred, and some of the worst youth's of america.
I was in a room for about 2 weeks and I was forced to participate in an action called "Speed dreams", I "had a choice" but in reality i didnt. I could tell on them, and then become a center of negative attention for the rest of my time there, adding more loneliness to my already shattered world. There is no way a human can go through such drama and live life in a perfect fashion.[ This Message was edited by: ap47 on 2006-03-03 11:05 ]"
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I POSTED THIS AND I WAS WRONG! I could not imagine that you could die from choking yourself. I'm sorry! I was wrong!
LINK
On 2006-03-04 15:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No - you can't die from squeezing your own neck with your hands after hyperventiating. It takes having ANOTHER PERSON hold your neck. What happens when you hyperventilate is that you pass out. Your hands would let go.
It is a completely stupid thing to do. You could fall and strike your head.
On 2006-03-04 06:32:00, SHH wrote:
"If that is what I am understanding you are describing...this is something I have read about that kids do as young as age 8 and 9, and it is VERY dangerous. You can die from this form of activity.Did you and the other kids at HLA do this on purpose out of your own choice or did someone tell you to do this?"
[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-03-07 16:41 ]
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On 2006-03-01 11:32:00, ap47 wrote:
"hla is the worst school anyone could ever fathom. I was one of the few people to ever go there that got diagnosed with "no mental problems, real life issues" and i/the campus was treated like total shit. the school teaches absolutely NO independence. for example- if u dont do your homework- u get to avoid 'restrictions' for part of the afternoon by talking in air conditioned rooms eating candy. restrictions are rigged- i once lost a vacation break because i passed a packet of sugar to my friend. there is no good reasononing for that. i also watched a jean claude van dam movie called bloodsport and me and some friends shouted 'comete' (the fight tournament hook name) whenever we saw eachother- and got put on 2 weeks of restrictions for "glorifiying violence". i had never done drugs before taht school- but being around kids telling great tales about drugs influenced me to smoke pot/eatshrooms/smoke opium/ and do speed dreams- the food was horrible and the sandwhich meets were almost impossible to eat and left out for over 24 hours sometimes. they manipulate your parents with confusing ideas and are hard to root out until far after the program is over."
Can you tell us about anything specific that you experienced or saw that would be considered abusive?
Can you shed some light on the behavior of staff members there? How did they go about implementing the progam? Did they play favorites? Were there instances of inappropriate behavior of employees toward residents?
If you'd like to PM me that's fine. Thanks.
-
On 2005-04-07 04:12:00, SHH wrote:
The school also owns 4 buses that they take kids to events in. THey are green and seat about 30 kids each and say HLA on the side and each one has an A,B,C, or D letter. Why do I know about the buses? Because I went with my husband to Jacksonville, FL to look at the facility where they are made and where my husband purchased them. They were purchased I believe in 1998. they wanted to check out the size and cost and safety of them.
while 'private schools' are exempt, this is still an interesting survey:
Survey of State Laws on 12- and 15-Passenger Vans Used for School TransportationThe National Association of State Directors of Pupil Transportation Services recently surveyed its State Director members to determine the current state-by-state laws/regulations on the use of 12-and 15-passenger vans to transport students to and from school or on school-related activity trips. The survey was done in order to update an earlier study done in 1999. This latest information will allow the association to respond to questions from legislators, the media and the public. A copy of the survey results is attached.
The following summarizes the results of the survey:
? 29 states have laws or regulations that prohibit the use of vans for transporting public school students to and from school and school-related activities.
? 12 states have laws and regulations that prohibit the use of vans for transporting public school students to and from school, but allow the use of vans for school activity trips. [Note: One state has passed legislation that will prohibit the use of vans for activity trips after June 30, 2006.]
? 9 states allow the use of vans for transporting public school students to and from school and school-related activities. [Note: One of these nine states has passed legislation that will not allow the use of vans to transport students after June 1, 2008. Another state has a state-wide, self-insurance pool that will not insure vans used to transport students after July 1, 2005.]
? In many states, the laws and regulations that apply to public schools may not apply to private and church-sponsored schools.
The State Directors Association believes that it is appropriate to require higher levels of safety in vehicles that transport children to and from school and school-related activities.
Accordingly, the State Directors Association supports the position that school children should be transported in school buses which provide the highest levels of safety, not in 12- and 15-passenger vans which do not meet the stringent school bus safety standards issued by the Federal government and recommended by the National Conference on School Transportation, an organization of state school transportation officials.
For that reason, the State Directors Association endorses the statements made by Dr. Jeffrey W. Runge, Administrator of NHTSA, in an April 15, 2002, letter to school transportation professionals across the Nation:
School buses that comply with NHTSA?s school bus safety standards are the safest form of pupil transportation. A school?s purchase or use of 10-15 passenger vans or non-school buses could result in school children being transported in vehicles that do not provide an appropriate level of safety. While most States require the use of school buses to transport children to and from school and school-related events, some States do not. We urge you to take steps to ensure that all school children in your State are carried on school buses that are certified by their manufacturers as meeting NHTSA?s school bus standards.
During its 2003 annual conference, the State Directors Association passed a resolution encouraging legislative action and sent it to both the United States House of Representatives and United States Senate. The resolution encouraged Federal legislators ?to re-introduce legislation to prohibit the sale, lease and use of new and used non-compliant motor vehicles for the transportation of school-aged children to and from school and/or school-related activities, including Head Start and daycare transportation.?
Such legislation has been introduced in Congress in earlier years, but never reached a full vote in either the House or the Senate. Finally, the State Directors Association believes states are in the best position to ensure that vans, both new and used, are not used in lieu of school buses.
This action can be accomplished by establishing strict requirements on the types of motor vehicles that can be used within a state for transporting children to and from school and school-related activities, and enforcing those requirements. It is important that state legislatures understand that allowing the use of vans for transporting students either to and from school or on school activity trips causes any dealer that sells or leases a new van to schools to violate a Federal law.
© 2004 National Association of State Directors of Pupil Transportation Services. All rights reserved.February 2004
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:AOB ... =clnk&cd=8 (http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:AOBaA9Qku64J:www.nasdpts.org/documents/VansSurveyFeb04.pdf+Georgia+State+Regulation+of+Private+Schools+&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=8)
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Rather than addressing any real issues Shh wants only to yammer on and on about buses.
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On 2006-03-03 11:00:00, ap47 wrote:
"i was in pg57.
the claim that kids on restrictions are not outside for more than 1 1/2 hours is a blatant lie. On the weekends restrictions conventionally lasts from around 8:15 am to 10:00 pm.... thats way more than 1 1/2 hours.
My description of students avoiding restrictions in air conditioned classrooms eating candy- What im saying is if YOU ARE ON restriction, u can get out of about 1 1/2 hours of the work if u make urself "incomplete".
The sugar passing broke a "manipulation" rule, because i was "manipulating" the kitchen staff by taking sugar i didnt want and giving it to a friend....doesnt make much sense. anyhow- they soon got rid of the rule, which they never announced its presence in the first place.
Your contact with your parents is greatly skewed- when I first arrived at HLA, during winter - I was on restrictions for a straight 1 month duration- during this time my diet was horrible, and I lost many pounds: I chose to write about this in a letter and I was put on restrictions for manipulation. Basically all you can do in letters is talk about the good aspects of HLA and about how u have problems.
I was sent to HLA as a last-second resort because I was ditching school too much and approached the failing absence limit.
All information at HLA is skewed by staff/teachers/and students who are currently there willing to bend the truth to become members of such groups as "stars" "Student council" in which they get free off campus trips.
I won a mathematics competition for HLA, 1st place meet score, I was asked to write an article for the paper and to make a speech. The article i submitted was replaced by one written by a teacher- and I was told right before my speech exactly what I had to say to the student body.
edit: Annie hall, if your son was "perfect" he wouldnt of been there in the first place. "Perfect" is a word that has no meaning when it comes to teens. For your information I personally have had contact with 4/5's members of "STARS" (highest priviledge group based on how they work with the program) and most of them are doing drugs behind their parents backs, and lives are maybe even worse before HLA took part on them.
HLA is a school that will not only fail to fix your childrens problems, but will show them a world of loneliness, tyranny, hatred, and some of the worst youth's of america.
I was in a room for about 2 weeks and I was forced to participate in an action called "Speed dreams", I "had a choice" but in reality i didnt. I could tell on them, and then become a center of negative attention for the rest of my time there, adding more loneliness to my already shattered world. There is no way a human can go through such drama and live life in a perfect fashion.[ This Message was edited by: ap47 on 2006-03-03 11:05 ]"
::bump::
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Can someone explain what this is?
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On 2006-03-03 23:04:00, Deborah wrote:
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On 2006-03-03 17:14:00, ap47 wrote:
"a speed dream is where u hyperventalite very quickly for about 10-30 seconds then u grasp ur throat with both hands- cutting off air- passing u out for a small amount of time- in which u have a vivid dream."