Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: BSarro on March 12, 2005, 07:31:00 PM
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There was a Courtroom tragedy in GA.A man on trial stole a deputy's gun and killed the judge, a deputy, and a court reporter. This is what WWASPS and other programs are trying to help families avoid.Being a murderer on the run. Being on trial. Being in jail for a life sentence.Think about that before you go spewing hatred towards such programs.
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God helps those who help themselves. Take marriage seriously. Once the Wedding Ring goes on the finger, it stays on the finger. [ This Message was edited by: BSarro on 2005-03-12 16:33 ][ This Message was edited by: BSarro on 2005-03-12 18:08 ][ This Message was edited by: BSarro on 2005-03-12 18:10 ][ This Message was edited by: BSarro on 2005-03-12 18:11 ]
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This is the argument used by WWASP. They also like to use the Columbine tragedy. I guess they could use just about anything as a reason they need to use abusive measures to re-program kids. Professionals are now coming forward indicating that these types of bm programs do more harm than good. :scared: :scared: :skull:
:eek: :eek:
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Professionals? Who? Ginger? Sara? Cayo? Niles? Pleeeaaasssseeee.
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God helps those who help themselves. Take marriage seriously. Once the Wedding Ring goes on the finger,it stays on the finger. [ This Message was edited by: BSarro on 2005-03-12 18:07 ]
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On 2005-03-12 18:06:00, BSarro wrote:
"Professionals? Who? Ginger? Sara? Cayo? Niles? Pleeeaaasssseeee.
How's the National Mental Health Association? Is that professional enough for you?
http://www.nmha.org/children/justjuv/bootcamp.cfm (http://www.nmha.org/children/justjuv/bootcamp.cfm)
Experts agree that a confrontational approach is not appropriate. Most correctional and military experts agree that a confrontational model, employing tactics of intimidation and humiliation, is counterproductive for most youth in the juvenile justice system. The use of this kind of model has led to disturbing incidents of abuse. For youth of color (who represent the vast majority of the juveniles sentenced to boot camps)-as well as for youth with emotional, behavioral, or learning problems-degrading tactics may be particularly inappropriate and potentially damaging. The bullying style and aggressive interactions that characterize the boot camp environment fail to model the pro-social behavior and development of empathy that these youth really need to learn. The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of women's emancipation.
--Elizabeth Cady-Stanton
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oh my god, you are kidding! what a stretch that is saying wwasps is trying to prevent this, in my opinion the create it! i heard about the boy in texas that went to casa and is now on death row! don't you get it?
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I find it amusing how you insult me yet refuse to take me head on.
In a battle of minds I'm a Titan and you're a gnat.Forgiveness is divine. Forgetfulness is just a mental dysfunction.
--Antigen
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nih,
that first write is crazy in my opinion. can you believe they believe wwasps helps them?
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this is so crazy it needs to be brought to the attn of other parents for there thoughts.
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Not that I think you'll actually read these or agree, but here are a few "professional" opinions against the aggregation of teens and the use of BM. Enjoy!
http://www.wpic.pitt.edu/aacp/Vol-15-3/Youth.html (http://www.wpic.pitt.edu/aacp/Vol-15-3/Youth.html)
http://www.apa.org/journals/amp/amp549755.html (http://www.apa.org/journals/amp/amp549755.html)
http://deoxy.org/creative.htm (http://deoxy.org/creative.htm)
http://www.postinstitute.com/articles/a ... iormod.htm (http://www.postinstitute.com/articles/altbehaviormod.htm)
http://www.nmha.org/children/justjuv/ (http://www.nmha.org/children/justjuv/)
http://www.ascd.org/readingroom/edupdate/1996/1sep.html (http://www.ascd.org/readingroom/edupdate/1996/1sep.html)
http://www.aifs.org.au/nch/issues1.html (http://www.aifs.org.au/nch/issues1.html)
http://www.here2listen.com/public/topic ... hment.html (http://www.here2listen.com/public/topics/family_life/child_punishment.html)
http://www.nncc.org/221/classnotes/April17.html (http://www.nncc.org/221/classnotes/April17.html)
http://www.naturalchild.com/sidney_crai ... hment.html (http://www.naturalchild.com/sidney_craig/punishment.html)
http://www.pai-ca.org/newsltrs/issue64/metrokid.htm (http://www.pai-ca.org/newsltrs/issue64/metrokid.htm)
And, excerpted from Craig, Sidney D. Raising Your Child, not by Force but by Love, Westminster Press, Philadelphia, 1973, pp. 95-98, by permission of the publishers.
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Coercion is defined as the use of force to restrain, dominate or threat.
Coercion is incompatible with true happiness.
The belief that people will not work hard unless coerced is an insidious belief.
Anything coerced is not fun.
For example:
Forced sex is rape.
Use of physical force is abuse/violence
Would you enjoy food if you were force fed?
Forceable restraint of children (holding therapy) in the name of love is not therapeutic!
Compulsory schooling is incompatible with learning
Highest productivity cannot be achieved by force.
Threat of unemployment is coercion
Threat of punishment is coercion.
You cannot coerce curiosity.
Coercion creates learned helplessness.
You cannot coerce someone to love you.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
War is when two nations are attempting to coerce each other.
Use of deadly force is destructive, and leads to chaos.
Coercion involves pain, and involves the discounting of feeling.
Obligation is forced relationships.
"Control breeds the need for more control, which is then used to justify the use of control. " --from: Kohn, Alfie (1990)."The Brighter Side of Human Nature; Altruism Empathy in Everyday Life."Basic Books:NY. 400 pp.
Freedom is the opposite of coercion. Paradoxically, we must limit our freedoms in order to gain freedom. For example, we limit our freedom and all agree to drive on one side of the road. We write this rule down in a book, it is called a law. Through the enactment of this law, we increase our freedom of safe travel. Our responsibility is the observance of these rules that we mutually agreed upon. There are mechanisms for change, and it is the responsibility of government to be responsive to the people in enacting the most satisfactory system of law.
Socrates said: "Nothing of value comes if forced?" ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The key to understanding human behavior lies in understanding the feelings that underlie and produce the behavior. The key to guiding children's behavior into socially desirable channels consists in knowing how to create in the child those positive, loving feelings which will produce positive, loving, and, therefore, non-delinquent behavior. Or, conversely, the key lies in the parents' avoiding the production, cumulatively, of those angry feelings in the child which will produce angry, negativistic, delinquent behavior. Unfortunately nature has introduced several factors into the parent-child relationship that make it extremely difficult for even the most sincere, well-meaning parent to convey to the child his/her true, loving feelings. The first of these is the complex nature of love itself.
There is no "speedy" way to train children to behave properly. What appears to be rapid training must always depend on the fear of pain [or some other unpleasant feeling], and fear of pain achieves only one end: it empties the "love bank"*, setting the stage for later difficulty.
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that is a lot of information. do you have your own webstie with all this. it is so important to be out there. thanks
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For the ill-informed person who wrote "Professionals? Who? Ginger? Sara? Cayo? Niles? Pleeeaaasssseeee." How about the Association of Child and Adolescent Psychiatric Nursing.....Quite professional I'd say....
Association of Child and Adolescent Psychiatric Nursing
A Division of the International Society of Psychiatric Mental Health Nurses
A position regarding the detention of minor children in psychiatric treatment facilities, drug and alcohol treatment facilities, residential treatment facilities, and "behavior modification boarding schools."
§ All children have the right to be treated with dignity and free from mistreatment, abuse, neglect, and exploitation.
§ ACAPN opposes the abduction and involuntary transport of children to facilities for confinement unless such measures have been clinically justified in specific, operational terms by a licensed mental health professional with the legal authority to do so. In the event that such tactics are necessary for the immediate protection of the child and/or society, the child must have access to an appeal process commensurate with the same right of habeas corpus available to every citizen of the United States of America.
§ Children have the right to appropriate treatment in the least restrictive available setting in the event that treatment is necessary.
This setting must be one that provides the highest likelihood for improvement and that is not more restrictive of their physical liberty than is needed for their own protection or for the protection of society.
§ Prior to the child's admission a copy of their rights (written in clear and understandable language) should be given to them and explained to them verbally by a licensed staff member. A duplicate copy should be given to the child's family members(s) or guardian(s). If owing to the child's condition at the time of admission, the child has not understood his/her rights, a licensed staff member will provide an explanation to the child within 24 hours and periodically until some degree of understanding is reached. The necessity for repeating the rights communication process will be documented, signed, and dated. In the event that the child is very young, the rights should be explained to them in a way commensurate with their level of understanding.
Professional registered nurses, as directed by the A.N.A. code of ethics, are obliged to assure that the rights of children and families are in no way violated.
§ Prior to admission the child and his/her family or guardian(s) has the right to be informed of all institutional rules and regulations and consequence/reward structure concerning their conduct and course of treatment. These should be clearly stated in writing and a copy should be provided to all parties for reference purposes.
§ Treatment (including behavior modification procedures, therapies, educational activities) provided by any facility, including psychiatric hospitals, drug and alcohol treatment centers, residential treatment facilities, and "behavior modification boarding schools") must be professionally and clinically justifiable. This means that procedures to which children are subjected must be defensible as being within the realm of professional psychiatric standards of practice and affirmed by empirical research data as being appropriate.
§ ACAPN affirms the right of children to talk and write to persons outside the detainment facility at any time during their detainment without having such communication censored or monitored unless such monitoring is clinically justifiable (and justified) for the safety of the child or others. This right includes the right to contact an attorney.
§ ACAPN opposes any prohibition on barriers to communication imposed by any facility including rigid and restrictive visiting policies, policies that restrict parents from visiting their children, limited access to telephones, and barriers to mail service.
§ ACAPN opposes any and all punitive measures. Children should not be physically restrained (restriction of body parts by device or by placement in an isolated, locked room) unless every avenue of prevention of harm to themselves or others has been exhausted. The successive steps employed in the prevention of aggressive behavior must be clearly stated in specific operational terms. In the event that such restraint becomes necessary it should be done humanely and in accordance to standard aggressive behavior management (ABM) protocol by persons who have been trained and who have received instruction in ABM prior to their exposure to clinical situations. Children's face and head must never be obstructed at anytime. The restraint must be applied while the child is in a supine position. Any medication administered to the child must be ordered by (physician or advanced practice nurse) and administered by a licensed professional. Children should never be left alone while in restraints or while secluded. The duration of physical restraint of any kind should extend only until the child is sufficiently in control of him/herself to no longer pose a threat to themselves or to others.
Restraints must be "broken" every 2 hours at a minimum, the child should be offered fluids, toileting, and vital signs should be taken. Restraint orders must be re-written every 24 hours after the child is evaluated by a licensed professional with legal authority to do so. All restraint procedures must be justified in writing and in specific, individual, operational (as opposed to general) terms.
§ Children have the right to be cared for in a developmentally appropriate way by competent certified professionals who have had both the salient education and experience commensurate with working with a pediatric population. They have the right to therapies that are rendered by persons who have the appropriate education and training in those therapies. Treatment and therapies must be temporally and developmentally geared in such a way that they are meaningful to children.
§ Children have the right to have access to an advocacy group (such as Advocacy Inc.) as well as access to support groups such as the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill. Advocacy groups and their telephone numbers should displayed in a prominent place where all patients can see them. When advocates are called, they must have free access to patients/clients.
§ Children have the right to review the information in their medical record with supervision. The right extends to the child's family or guardian.
§ Children have the right to have their records kept private and to be told about the conditions under which information about them will be disclosed without their permission.
§ Children and their families have the right to a treatment plan that is individually developed for their situations.....
There's much more than this. Several more articles are on this website
http://www.emancipationproject.org (http://www.emancipationproject.org)
click on professionals :wave: :wave:
[ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2005-03-13 10:59 ]
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excellent article. this needs to put out there.
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Niles, How have I refused to tackle you head on? That's an unbelieveable statement on your part.
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And as far as the experts Deborah and others provided, fine I will play your game. So experts are both pro and anti on the topics. What is the tiebreaker? Haldol has been proven to help kids function better in school and out of school. Same thing for te progrms.They have a proven track record.Just read some testomonials.Stories of LIVES SAVED!One such place to start reading some testomonials is WWASPRebuttal.Com.
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God helps those who help themselves. Take marriage seriously. Once the Wedding Ring goes on the finger, it stays on the finger.[ This Message was edited by: BSarro on 2005-03-13 18:53 ]
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Please show me these experts who advocate Haldol for kids in school!!! Deb and I gave you sites of professionals. I haven't seen ANY from you.
That which does not kill you can make you stronger, but I really never needed to be this strong.
Scott Wagner
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I just find it so hard to believe that anyone in their right mind would indicate that Haldol helps children - perhaps it may help some with SEVERE psychosis - but the side effects are not worth it.....Before making a claim do a little research because you really sound ignorant :wstupid:
ANTI-PSYCHOTIC AGENTS
Use of anti-psychotic agents should generally be reserved for children with serious disorders, characterized by excessive agitation, aggressiveness, or psychosis. These medications can cause major short- and long-term side effects, so they should only be used when a situation is serious enough to risk these side effects. Other names for antipsychotics are neuroleptics, major tranquilizers, and phenothiazines.
Trade Names: Thorazine, Chloramead, Chlordryprom, Chlor Promanyl, Largactil, Promachlor, Promapar, Promosol, Terpium, Sonazine
Side Effects: Sleepiness, irritability, dry mouth, swollen abdomen, blood abnormalities, liver abnormalities, skin reactions, light sensitivity, dystonic, muscle spasm and stiffness, nasal stuffiness, constipation, Parkinson-like tremors. Long-term effects - changes in skin color, cataracts, tardive dyskinesia
Generic Name: Chlorpromazine
Why Prescribed: Severe anxiety, agitation, aggression, psychosis
Comments: Used with caution in children with seizure disorders.
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Trade Name: Haldol
Side Effects: Stiffness, sleepiness, irritability, dry mouth, swollen abdomen, blood abnormalities, liver abnormalities, skin reactions, light sensitivity, changes in skin coloring with high doses over long time, cataracts, tardive dyskinesia. Parkinson-like tremors
Generic Name: Haloperidol
Why Prescribed: Severe anxiety, agitation, aggresion, psychosis, Tourette's Syndrome (multiple tics)
Comments: Used with caution in childrenwith seizure disorders.
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The licensed professionals like the one at the Anon's son's school. Why should I have to provide a million links?There are many School Psycologists who advocate the use of Haldol in children. That is why we are even discussing this topic.It will not kill any kid, it will get him to be in a better position to learn and have a better social life.
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On 2005-03-13 19:04:00, BSarro wrote:
"The licensed professionals like the one at the Anon's son's school. Why should I have to provide a million links?There are many School Psycologists who advocate the use of Haldol in children. That is why we are even discussing this topic.It will not kill any kid, it will get him to be in a better position to learn and have a better social life.
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So you expect us to produce 'evidence' of what the professionals are saying, but you don't have to. Hmmm. That says quite a bit.Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... miamithem' (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/040303082X/circlofmiamithem') target='_new'>H. G. Wells
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Death CAN OCCUR with HALDOL - it's not recommended for children....
I'd rather have a hyperactive child than a dead child -
http://www.walnet.org/llf/drugs/haldol.html#start (http://www.walnet.org/llf/drugs/haldol.html#start)
Sudden death is a (rare) possibility with Haldol.
"This is one of a group of psychiatric drugs which causes a serious and sometimes fatal reaction called Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome. It may cause body temperature raising, rigid muscles and coma (passing out), rapid heart beat and breathing, sweating, shaking and seizures. The death rate is 20%.
Haldol causes brain and eye damage with long-term use. With epilepsy, it can change the pattern of seizures."
Children are sensitive to the nervous system reactions of this drug.
Haldol (Haloperidol)
CATEGORY
ANTIPSYCHOTIC/NEUROLEPTIC DRUGS
USUAL DOSE
1 injection every 4 weeks
0.5-2 mg 2 or 3 x a day up to 30 mg a day
maximum: 100 mg a day
children: not specified
elderly: lower dose
FOR
chronic schizophrenia and other psychoses
major tranquilizer
control of hyperactive behaviour in children
SHOULD NOT BE USED OR SHOULD BE USED CAREFULLY WHEN THERE IS
use of drugs for depression (within 14 days)
use of tranquilizers, drugs for tension (within 14 days)
use of other antipsychotic/neuroleptic drugs
use of lithium, levodopa
use of sedatives, sleeping pills, pain killers
use of alcohol
use of antacids
alcohol withdrawal
coma (passed out)
severe depression
Parkinson's disease or Parkinson's-like symptoms
epilepsy
diabetes
liver or kidney disease
bone marrow or blood cell disease
heart disease, low blood pressure
glaucoma
thyroid disease
lupus
brain damage
allergies, especially to other drugs
pregnancy, nursing
breast cancer
surgery
USE OF THIS DRUG MAY CAUSE
often:
severe withdrawal symptoms
strengthening the effects of alcohol
increases effect of other drugs, especially sedatives
Parkinson-like symptoms: shakiness, lack of muscle co-ordination, muscle stiffness
restlessness, sleeplessness
drowsiness
blurred eyesight
dry mouth
constipation
urination problems
confusion, lack of judgement
sometimes:
tardive dyskinesia: uncontrolled movements of the tongue, mouth, arms and legs, which may be permanent and may come after stopping the drug
increased psychotic symptoms
changes in mood and behaviour
anxiety, excitement, agitation, restlessness
depression
weakness, being tired, sleeplessness
fever
headache
dizziness, fainting
internal and external spasms
in epileptics: seizures
in the elderly: no thirst sensation, leading to pneumonia
heart problems, heart attack
low white blood cell counts, causing infections
irregular pulse or blood pressure
liver disease
stomach problems, loss of appetite
nausea, vomiting, diarrhea
bloating
skin rash, sensitivity to sun
eye damage
impotence (20%), painful, continuous erection
breast swelling (male and female)
menstrual problems
rarely:
death, sometimes sudden, from any of these causes: disordered body temperature
bone marrow poisoning
convulsions
blood clots
paralysis of the intestines
cardiac arrest (heart stoppage)
despair leading to suicide
vomiting into lungs*
* (30% of psychiatric patient deaths)
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REMEMBER
This drug should be used only when there is no other choice.
Sudden death is a (rare) possibility with Haldol.
This is one of a group of psychiatric drugs which causes a serious and sometimes fatal reaction called Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome. It may cause body temperature raising, rigid muscles and coma (passing out), rapid heart beat and breathing, sweating, shaking and seizures. The death rate is 20%.
Haldol causes brain and eye damage with long-term use. With epilepsy, it can change the pattern of seizures.
This drug is eliminated in breast milk and affects an unborn child. It should not be given to nursing or pregnant women.
Children are sensitive to the nervous system reactions of this drug.
Avoid overheating your body in the sun, saunas, hot baths, etc.
Tell your nurse, doctor, pharmacist or dentist about any other drugs you are taking before any new treatment. Check with them before you take any medicine, even if it isn't a prescription drug.
There is no known treatment for tardive dyskinesia (TD). The brain damage done with this drug can be permanent. If symptoms appear, the drug must be stopped. One of the early signs of TD is a "worm-like" movement of the tongue. Stop the drug and see your doctor immediately if this happens to you.
You should not drive, operate machines, play sports, or do dangerous things until you know what this drug does to you.
Stop taking this drug and contact your doctor immediately if you notice any of the problems or conditions listed or anything unusual is happening, especially changes in your eyesight.
Withdrawal symptoms can be severe with psychiatric drugs. If you stop using them, do it slowly.
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***Haldol has been proven to help kids function better in school and out of school.
Are you confusing Haldol with Ritalin?
Not that it's any better.
http://www.ritalindeath.com/ (http://www.ritalindeath.com/)
What proven track record? Who has interviewed the thousands of kids who have been through programs and followed them long-term?
How many will hog-tie their kids, or deny food as punishment, or put them on their face for weeks for speaking without permission, or make them sleep outdoors in the winter... because they were conditioned to believe this is an appropriate way to treat other humans? How many will have difficulty with intimate relationships, or social anxiety?
Some of the most damaged individuals in society hold down full-time jobs and look quiet normal on the surface, like the BTK killer. A couple of weeks ago, there was a report every night that another pedophile had been arrested. One was a dentist, another a city council member, one a preacher, can't remember the other one, but he was a prominent' citizen. Only one had a criminal history.
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You all have produced evidence supporting your side. I HAVE produced evidence supporting my side. How am I supposed to do better than that? I would reccemend somehow seeking out the School Psycologist and others who have prescribed it for kids and ask how did it improve the learning capabilities and social life of the kids.
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God helps those who help themselves. Take marriage seriously. Once the Wedding Ring goes on the finger, it stays on the finger.
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You're not paying attention or have a problem with comprehension.
School psychologists are not qualified to DIAGNOSE OR PRESCRIBE psych medications. They often over-step their bounds.
For your education, only psychiatrists and MDs can diagnose and prescribe.
And in a few states who are leading the way, it is now illegal for school districts to demand parents medicate their kids. Federal legislation is being persued.
Haldol is not a drug that would be prescribed for so-called ADD. Your adament support of this school psych (professional) is a classic example of an uninformed parent who defers to anyone their perceive to be an authority. A poster parent for the industry.
Life on planet Earth in 2005 requires the average citizen to be more informed than ever before. It is not wise to assume that professionals or authorities have your best interest at heart.
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School Psychologists can't prescribe or diagnose ANYTHING - they can give test to show types of learning disorders - but that's about it. Only an M.D. can prescribe medication and diagnose. I wouldn't give much weight to what they have to say. I had one tell me I should use a drug for my son. I spoke to my pediatrician about it and he said that this drug has caused liver failure and death in children and he would never prescribe it. Be careful who you trust when it comes to medicating your child. HUGS not DRUGS....is the best medicine.
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On 2005-03-14 09:58:00, RN on Board wrote:
"School Psychologists can't prescribe or diagnose ANYTHING - they can give test to show types of learning disorders - but that's about it. Only an M.D. can prescribe medication and diagnose. I wouldn't give much weight to what they have to say. I had one tell me I should use a drug for my son. I spoke to my pediatrician about it and he said that this drug has caused liver failure and death in children and he would never prescribe it. Be careful who you trust when it comes to medicating your child. HUGS not DRUGS....is the best medicine."
It depends on what your child has.
*Some* children are so mentally ill they are completely unable to function, or are dangerous.
*Those* children need drugs.
But psychoactive drugs are powerful, they can have severe side effects, the cost/benefit risks can be the most painful judgement call a parent ever has to make.
They should be a last resort.
I watched my beautiful, outgoing, exceptionally bright child become mentally unbelievably dulled and curled over in stomach pain crying every day.
We went to doctor after doctor seeking the cause before finally finding out that she had inherited her early onset bipolar disorder from me and that her manifestation was just different enough from mine that I didn't recognize it.
We did choose drugs, because her life without them had become a living hell---and believe you me, she was *never* short on hugs---and I remembered the living hell I went through in my own childhood, with well-meaning, attentive, consistent parents who loved me. The disease was just so painful I would give anything to be able to go back and rescue the child I was by giving her/me the appropriate medicines when I so badly needed them.
Every child is different.
If your child is *not* seriously ill, you wouldn't give her penicillin or nitroglycerin pills or anti-epilepsy drugs. And you wouldn't give her powerful psychiatric drugs, either.
But if she really is sick, they can be the only things that actually work to make it possible for her to have a normal, happy childhood again.
*No* child who is not seriously ill should be forced onto inappropriate medications by some incompetent school psychologist on a power trip.
But if a school pshrink really thinks there's a serious problem, better to get your child checked by a *competent* professional both to cover your ass and in case there really is something going wrong.
Who knows, early therapy may prevent that child's condition from deteriorating into something more serious later.
Timoclea
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She reccemended Haldol because my son was having trouble with a certain teacher, often cursing out the teacher and ending up in the principal's office and/or suspended.