Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 09, 2005, 09:09:00 AM
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A public debate between Melvin Sembler and two survivors has been scheduled for on or about May 9th, 2005.
This debate will occur in a location in St. Petersburg, Florida.
The proposed rules of the debate are as follows.
The two survivors have agreed to all the rules of the debate including no personal stories accept where details of which explain documentation. The subject of the debate will be limited too the evidence (physical evidence) such as documents against Straight Incorporated. No emotional agendas will be allowed in the debate. There will also not be an audience where the debate takes place.
Only the media will be allowed to be present in the debate room.
It was further agreed that the location of the debate will remain confidential.
This is to be a professional debate where evidence is presented by a paralegal.
This gives Mel Sembler the opportunity to once and for all silence his detractors with evidence and statistical information on the "good" the ambassador claims was done by Straight Inc. This is truly the opportunity for Ambassador Sembler to reveal all the good he and his wife have done. This further gives them the forum to silence detractors.
Mel and Betty Sembler will be given the chance to publicly repute all claims made by survivors in a professional debate.
The Semblers have not refused this open public debate.
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Nice Try but I doubt they will even take this proposal seriously. So the media can attend, but not surivors? What media? Who decides what group is a ok media source? Who is not allowed access? Sounds pretty flimsy to me.
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Apparently, "the media" I guess meaning local media and any other media will be allowed . I suspect that the survivors had to agree to no audience so, that no protest would take place. I don't know if it's true or not but it is said that Dan Rather or someone of his stature has agreed to host the debate. I believe the debate is suppose to be on was Straight and its model successful.
The Ambassador and his wife often brag to the media about it's success. I suspect the survivors may have simply agreed to debate the issue.
I am sure the survivors had to agree to terms they may not have otherwise agreed to but I am sure they felt that if they declined the finger would be pointed at them saying they were too unsure of their position, that they knew their cause was flawed if they failed to show or agree to the terms of the debate. How would it look if the survivors did not agree or fail to show. It would put into question all the accusations they have made against the treatment model.
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I hope those survivors know what the hell they are getting into. Semblers could bring in big guns and make them feel about three feet tall. I hope they have their ducks in a row this could ruin it for us survivors if they don't handle it right. It could make us all look like idiots. He has access to all the pro's.
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Yeah, No shit. What if he comes in there with his big wigs and discredits the survivors on National TV then no one would listen to us. No one would believe us. Our credibility and that of WWASP survivors too would be ruined. He could wipe out this whole cause just by paying people off to say this or that. What if those survivors act like fools or something that will make us all look bad. It took twenty five years for us to get people to listen they could put us back fifty years trying to go up against him.
What fools. Why did they even agree to this?
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Yeah , No wonder ole melsie hasnt said no. He knows the survivors will loose and then the whole cause ruined.
Two very dumb survivors. One of us needs to tell whoever these people are Don't do it. It took along time to get where we are we dont need them ruining it for us.
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You guys get up early to talk to each other. I have noticed. I like your conversations, they are very thought provoking.
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Has anyone seen a couple of droids?
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From what understand it isn't Mel that will be doing the debating but Betty. I really hope those survivors back out, Betty knows all the drug crap and statistics and she is the one who is well known for all the drug prevention. If they arent careful she will make them look like low life druggies. Dont get me wrong I hate Betty but I understand she is a pistol to deal with.
I mean I am all for it, I just dont want all survivors humiliated on National TV and certainly not by Betty Sembler. Have those survivors really thought this out? I mean Betty has been in drug prevention for 25 years and could easily out do survivors on all the statistics just by calling up her buddies in the field and getting all the docs and stuff.
In my humble opinion this is not a good idea.
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I just read this thread. OMFG are they nuts. Great thanks you stupid
survivors humiliate us all on National TV and loose all our credibility.
Good thinking. Destroy all our efforts for 25 years in one shot. Friggin Brilliant.
Leave it to a survivor to be an idiot.
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A question: Would there be enough "ammo" to make it worthwhile assuming that 'we' play by their rules? (no personal stories, physical evidence only, paralegal presenting, etc)
If so, then why not do it?
If not, then reasons ought to be given for 'our' absence so as not to look like liars or cowards. Example: "How are we supposed to debate this without personal accounts? Forget it, we're not interested in paticipating in this sort of 'debate,' thanks but no thanks."
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If they have already agreed can they back out? I know you said they should give a reason for not showing but no matter what they say for not showing it will look bad don't you think? The not showing alone will hurt all of us and the believeability of all survivors. I think at this point no matter what they do it will look VERY bad for us.
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That's a shame...well if they're gonna go thru with it they had better make it good..
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Does anyone know if it is true that Channel 28 in Tampa is hosting the debate?
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Good Lord - get someone like Phil Elberg to handle the survivors side. The truth is what matters, and it doesn't have to be delivered by a survivor.
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Evidence should be presented by an attorney. A paralegal "certificate" can be obtained in less than 1 year. How about somone one with some actual "schooling"?
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This is BS!!!! How can they effectively debate about Straight if they can not share personal experiences? I do trust whoever these 2 people are have skills in being articulate. So best of luck and I hope they find a way to still bring the truth out.
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On 2005-03-09 06:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"A public debate between Melvin Sembler and two survivors has been scheduled for on or about May 9th, 2005.
This debate will occur in a location in St. Petersburg, Florida.
The proposed rules of the debate are as follows.
The two survivors have agreed to all the rules of the debate including no personal stories accept where details of which explain documentation. The subject of the debate will be limited too the evidence (physical evidence) such as documents against Straight Incorporated. No emotional agendas will be allowed in the debate. There will also not be an audience where the debate takes place.
Only the media will be allowed to be present in the debate room.
It was further agreed that the location of the debate will remain confidential.
This is to be a professional debate where evidence is presented by a paralegal.
This gives Mel Sembler the opportunity to once and for all silence his detractors with evidence and statistical information on the "good" the ambassador claims was done by Straight Inc. This is truly the opportunity for Ambassador Sembler to reveal all the good he and his wife have done. This further gives them the forum to silence detractors.
Mel and Betty Sembler will be given the chance to publicly repute all claims made by survivors in a professional debate.
The Semblers have not refused this open public debate.
"
Yeah. Uh-huh. And I am the Queen of Sheba.
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Is this debate live? If so, they could just break the rules. This isn't a courtroom. If someone says "I was raped" it doesn't play well in the court of public opinion to say, "you're not allowed to talk about that let's get back to Betty's statistics".
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Then they would be talking out in group, and would be promptly restrained.
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Sounds like somebody is trolling to me, Sembler isn't going to debate anybody, especially a survivor come on get real.
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I think this whole thread is a fabricated bunch of crap.
Go entertain yourself some other way dude.
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On 2005-03-09 13:36:00, GregFL wrote:
"I think this whole thread is a fabricated bunch of crap.
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Yeah, I think you're right. It ain't gonna happen. No way in hell would those decrepit old shits debate in a neutral, uncensored forum. What would they have to gain? Those conniving old scumbags may be a lot of things, but they ain't THAT stupid.
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We have heard about "a paralegal" before. Seems to me at one point, a paralegal was quoted as part of the ISAC team. Is this the same paralegal? Is ISAC conducting the debate? I would like to see this darn thing live for sure.
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On 2005-03-09 13:36:00, GregFL wrote:
"I think this whole thread is a fabricated bunch of crap.
Go entertain yourself some other way dude.
"
:nworthy: :nworthy:
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On 2005-03-09 06:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The two survivors have agreed to all the rules of the debate including no personal stories accept where details of which explain documentation. The subject of the debate will be limited too the evidence (physical evidence) such as documents against Straight Incorporated. No emotional agendas will be allowed in the debate. "
Um, since they controlled the documentation, since we don't have any documentation other than what they decided to keep or allow us to have (which is what I'm not sure), then these rules would be completely in their favor. I hope this is a joke. :eek: [ This Message was edited by: JMA on 2005-03-09 14:56 ]
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Here's an actual debate that actually occured and actually aired on a nationally syndicated radio network:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... forum=32&0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8548&forum=32&0)
It's about one of Betty and Calvina's pet subjects; medical marijuana. I don't know about you, but I find it most comforting to listen to intelligent, accomplished and well respected people saying true things that we couldn't say w/o getting our asses beat.
Everybody's lost just waiting to be found. Everyone's a thought just waiting to fade.
-- Billy Corgan of The Smashing Pumpkins
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Who has taken it upon themselves to represent us the survivors? If it?s Marti then I think she will do a good job for us, however I think this should be a PUBLIC debate. If it is not then we are still playing by their rules. The all-powerful Sembler has and continues to dictate the format. We are still jumping through hoops. I for one am very skeptical about this.
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If the straight debaters make fools of themselves, isn't that proof that Straight was ineffective or harmful? It's a win-win situation!!
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Come on guys....no one can even get Sembler to show up for his deposition in a LEGAL PROCEEDING. What on earth makes you think he would willingly show up to answer questions and debate on a subject more openly?
I think someone here just wants something to rant at themselves about.
As far as Sembler is concerned, Straight is a non-issue to him. According to his stance, there is nothing to debate...abuse did not happen, and we dont exist. He and his lawyer will barely even allow a reference to Bradbury's incarceration at Straight to be allowable in any of the proceedings of his lawsuit. But then, he is going to show up for an open debate?
Common sense here, people. [ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2005-03-11 07:48 ][ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2005-03-15 05:59 ]
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I'd have to agree this is bunk. I'll kindly retract my statement if evidence is given to corroborate this outrageous statement.
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So what is the Deal? Is this real? Who are the survivors? Or, is this bunk?
???
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Bunk.
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I just found out that debate is not bunk and is scheduled to happen soon. Apparently Mel Sembler will not attend this debate, it will be Betty Sembler and President George Bush. I don't know folks but I think the survivors still have a small chance at this debate. What do you think?
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On 2005-03-14 17:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just found out that debate is not bunk and is scheduled to happen soon. Apparently Mel Sembler will not attend this debate, it will be Betty Sembler and President George Bush. I don't know folks but I think the survivors still have a small chance at this debate. What do you think?"
I heard the original Muppets cast is going to be there.
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I heard the original Muppets cast is going to be there.
:lol: Anon, why didn't you mention this?
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On 2005-03-14 18:35:00, formerly known as wrote:
"
On 2005-03-14 17:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just found out that debate is not bunk and is scheduled to happen soon. Apparently Mel Sembler will not attend this debate, it will be Betty Sembler and President George Bush. I don't know folks but I think the survivors still have a small chance at this debate. What do you think?"
I heard the original Muppets cast is going to be there."
Hey I love the Muppets! This is getting exciting.
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you know who my favorite muppet is?
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Bush setting aside time to meet with Betty for a debate? Yeah right............
BUNK
If not, start naming names and places, we as survivors deserve the truth...............oh sorry, honesty!
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you know who my favorite muppet is?
Does it begin with an A? :lol:
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On 2005-03-15 05:45:00, Dr Fucktard wrote:
"you know who my favorite muppet is?
Does it begin with an A? :grin:
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I know that everyone wants to make a joke of it but this debate is very real. I think people should take it very serious being that this may be the last chance to represent yourselves in front of these people. I know for fact that the President and Betty Sembler are working on this as we speak. The Straight Survivors need to look into getting some extra political support for this debate. I would suggest that you try to get Rev Jesse Jackson. What do you think?
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On 2005-03-15 08:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
I know for fact that the President and Betty Sembler are working on this as we speak. The Straight Survivors need to look into getting some extra political support for this debate. I would suggest that you try to get Rev Jesse Jackson. What do you think?"
I know for a fact that aliens speak to me through wires in my head.......
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With the help of my friends I would LOVE to prep and participate in this.
Please consider me for the debate.
Sammie
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OK, so far we have Sammie and Rev Jesse Jackson. Do we have any other volunteers to help work on the prep for this debate?
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I'll do it...but you druggies are gonna owe me BIGTIME!
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On 2005-03-15 11:28:00, Dr Fucktard wrote:
"I'll do it...but you druggies are gonna owe me BIGTIME!"
Thanks Dr., we could use all the help we can get.
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On 2005-03-15 08:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I know that everyone wants to make a joke of it but this debate is very real. I think people should take it very serious being that this may be the last chance to represent yourselves in front of these people. I know for fact that the President and Betty Sembler are working on this as we speak. The Straight Survivors need to look into getting some extra political support for this debate. I would suggest that you try to get Rev Jesse Jackson. What do you think?"
Let it go....there is no debate, some of you really need to get a life. Sammy come on do you really think our Buddy Mel is going to debate you or anybody else?????? let it go already
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I intend to be there, dammit!!
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I just found out that there is going to be another debate scheduled later next month between Mel Sembler, Art Barker, Miller Newton and Helen Peterman. They are having an open debate on who had the best drug treatment program in America and why.
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On 2005-03-15 13:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just found out that there is going to be another debate scheduled later next month between Mel Sembler, Art Barker, Miller Newton and Helen Peterman. They are having an open debate on who had the best drug treatment program in America and why. "
A debate such as the one you suggest would be pointless---it is a well-known fact that Straight, Inc., during my tenure as Clinical Director, was the most effective drug-rehabilitation center in history, until the opening of the new, improved, all-ages, faith-based Straight, Inc.-by-the-Sea (formerly Straight, Inc. v2.0)!
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On 2005-03-15 13:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just found out that there is going to be another debate scheduled later next month between Mel Sembler, Art Barker, Miller Newton and Helen Peterman. They are having an open debate on who had the best drug treatment program in America and why. "
Will Rev Jesse Jackson attend this debate too?
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On 2005-03-15 14:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-03-15 13:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just found out that there is going to be another debate scheduled later next month between Mel Sembler, Art Barker, Miller Newton and Helen Peterman. They are having an open debate on who had the best drug treatment program in America and why. "
Will Rev Jesse Jackson attend this debate too?"
::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll::
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I'm in the Media and work for a local television station. I think I will check out this source. If it is not correct I will get back to you. Thanks for this. I hope it is legitimate.
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On 2005-03-15 14:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'm in the Media and work for a local television station. I think I will check out this source. If it is not correct I will get back to you. Thanks for this. I hope it is legitimate."
Yeah RIIIIIIIIIGHT ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::spam:: ::spam:: ::spam::
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Its past may, any one got any new info on this?
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Ah Hemm, it was bullshit.
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Seemed like it, but I thought it would be wise to check.
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On 2005-06-24 12:01:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Seemed like it, but I thought it would be wise to check."
This is your brain on drugs. :lol: