Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 03, 2005, 10:49:00 AM
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any truths? who has the scoop? scuttlebutt?
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Be news to me.
Where did you hear it?
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Haven't heard that. Wouldn't be surprised if it did.
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why is that ms. perri? you know something that isn't out here yet?
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On 2005-03-03 11:05:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Haven't heard that. Wouldn't be surprised if it did. "
I would. WWASP facilities don't just close. They either close because they are under investigation, in which case we would have heard about it, or they get raided and shut down. The Jamaicans have shown little interest in TB. They just don't care. Other overseas facilities have come and gone but TB just keeps on going.
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the jamaican's goberment just might be the ones doing it?
ya-mon
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For those who don?t know, TB is Tranquility Bay of WWASP
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by Richard Titsch III
Early this year (2003) I vacationed in Jamaica. I had heard the stories and had spoken to some press that were investigating the issues. My curiosity was somewhat peaked, and since I was staying in Jamaica for about a week, I decided to hire a driver and see, for myself, what this facility looks like. My experience and the pictures I personally took of the facility are available for the asking. For those interested in an abridged version - - here it goes:
First and foremost, you must understand that this place is in the middle of nowhere. It's a shock to travel Jamaica's countryside to begin with, because driving in general is so dangerous, away from the resorts (I happened to be staying in Ocho Rios) and the poverty is omnipresent. The city (Treasure Beach) is as remote as it gets, and when you arrive and ask where Tranquility Bay is (or to it's local folk the "Olde Warf Hotel"), you are outrightly lied to -- they say they don't know exactly where it is. Once you arrive in town, past the Motorcycle merchant, look for an old Jamaican (looks to be 300 or so) sitting on a rock, for it is at that dirt road you have to turn and follow a path about a half-mile long to the rather un-glorious "Tranquility Bay".
My first awareness that I was in the right place, was that I saw 10 or 20 boys riding on the rim of an old Pick-up Truck in front of us. They all looked unkempt and the ride looked dangerous. They were allowed inside the gates (the children and the dilapidated truck) and I had the driver stop so I could take in this nightmare, that I had only previously read about or had seen by way of very unclear pictures on the internet.
It's bad -- the first thing that catches your eye is that all of the windows (99%) have been "boarded-up". It hales from something out of a Hitchcock movie. The place has an odor and it is not pleasant at all. The beach could never be utilized because it looks as though the sewage is emptied on it regularly. If that's not the case, then a blanket statement that the beach is in horrible and unusable condition for whatever reason is a completely fair assessment of the situation.
The place has guards; it's ominously quiet (it was while I was there). Even if you did manage to escape, I don't know where any of its "guests" would run to. The trip just to the main road (if you could call it that) would wind even the most fit athlete, and the townspeople are rumored to get rewards for turning run-a-ways in. Remember that many Jamaicans work for the facility and even if the reward does not exist, they have a stake in making sure the "guests" stay imprisoned.
Obviously, I could not go inside, but I snapped many pictures and they clearly illustrate, that the place is a broken-down second-rate motel from the past, and should have been leveled many years ago, and that any beauty that the structure or the beach on which it sits may have once possessed is gone. It's a frightening site (and this is just from the outside). Notably, there is garbage in large cages outside the structure and I did have the feeling that something or someone, other than it's intended contents, may be placed in there from time-to-time.
Interestingly, I was not approached, although I was taking pictures like crazy (and my presence was somewhat obvious).
Another important fact, for people to keep in mind, is that this "hell-hole" is hours from both Kingston and Montego Bay Airports -- it's a drive you will never forget and it runs upwards of $300 round-trip.
Truly, all of this is moot, because the Headmaster (and I use this reference loosely) has no credentials at all which justify his position of management over this facility. The parents are bad parents -- plain and simple -- for taking part in this plan. An inquiry about this program by any parent, by itself, should result in a parent being jailed with no due process for the rest of their life.
Eventually, the United States Government will have to deal with this mess -- hopefully by invading Utah again -- it is time for that (government intervention) -- they have short memories from the last time (The Invasion of Utah.) Utah's inhabitance (and others) need desperately to come to terms with the fact that troubled children are a part of normal life and that having them kidnapped by paid morons (mostly because the parents are too cowardly to do this themselves)and then surreptitiously smuggling their child/children off to a foreign country to be tortured indefinitely is contrary to the mores and values of a civilized society.
Do not send your kids to this place! It's awful to look at, the manager is unqualified and all your doing is stuffing the bulging coffers of the nuts and religious fanatics that run these torture chambers.
Richard R. Titsch, III
New Jersey
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Found this:
http://www.travelandleisure.com/invoke. ... E4CAD6D6BD (http://www.travelandleisure.com/invoke.cfm?ObjectID=2A0F5FAA-01E4-41D3-85CFD9E4CAD6D6BD)
On page 3 of the article "Jake's", once again, and the area get a round of applause. You could email the authors at Travel & Leisure magazine and let them know what is so well hidden in Treasure Beach!
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TB. It's one of the most militant-like of all the WWASP facilities. It's all about compliancy. It's outrageous. I have heard many horror stories about that place. Samoa used to be the hardest. Now it's TB. CCM is more emotional based. By this I don't mean that they are tortured emotionally rather than physically I mean that they are given therapy by licensed therapists. The rules and regulations are nothing compared to TB.
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Epileptic Girl Needs Meds?
Alrightee, this is "hot off the press", and from a very reliable source. It seems there?s a girl at Tranquility Bay with epilepsy who IS NOT GETTING HER MEDICATION. Now, I?m no medical expert; but, my understanding, as a layman mind you, is that not getting Sodium Dilantin for three (3) months could cause unnecessary seizures, and uncontrolled seizures can certainly lead to a fatality.
Now, our highly trusted and connected source tells us that Jay?s excuse is that the medication won?t clear customs. Well Jay, HELLO, how about getting a Doctor in that hellhole you?re in to prescribe whatever comparable medication is available and legal in Jamaica so this girl doesn?t have to suffer anymore than she already has to date!! Oh, and Jay, fill 'er up please - that will be charge.
Also, I thought you didn?t admit children in this sort of situation. What happened, did the parents slip you an extra $20 to make an exception? And to the parents of this poor girl, why don?t you consider GETTING YOUR CHILD WITH A SERIOUS MEDICAL CONDITION OUT OF TRANQUILITY BAY BEFORE SHE HAS A SEIZURE THAT A GAS STATION ATTENDANT CAN?T CONTROL.
Wow, what the hell is the matter with these people?!
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Did any one ever check if the CCM theraphist actually have a license. I have heard other wise.
It sounds good.$4800.00 a month worth..It may not be accurate.
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Most of the "therapists" employed by WWASP are unlicensed.
It doesn't really matter. These "therapists" are another tool used by the program to break the children down. Did you listen to the latest Annie Armen show? There was a woman there who is a CCM survivor. Her "therapist" told her her grandfather died believing she was a drug addict. When she got out, she found her grandfather alive and well.
The goal is to break the child down in any way possible, to allow for them to be "re-wired" into program-worshipping WWASPies.
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And that is no way 'therapeutic', it is sadistic and cruel.
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On 2005-03-03 19:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
You could email the authors at Travel & Leisure magazine and let them know what is so well hidden in Treasure Beach!"
Yeah, you could. But they already know and they really are not interested in anyone else finding out. I remember this whole saga from when Rich Titsch was posting here before.
As I recall, Jakes' is in the camp w/ the all inclusive resort ppl. The local ppl of Treasure Beach, mom-n-pop hotel owners (mostly Americans) and really, really impoverished others, don't really want anything to do w/ these people or their development projects. They like being a little, exclusive, out of the way resort community. They also can't afford (CAN'T afford at ALL) the negative publicity.
If you're careful and demonstrate that you understand and respect their interests, some of the local ppl may be willing to help get the dish on TB in order to get rid of them. But it's dicey as hell. How do you do that w/o drawing negative publicity? Titsch tried publicly shaming them into doing something. They responded by taking down their website and strictly censoring anything relating to TB.
But what's the story about the gas station? Do tell!Excepting drug activity for personal use or free
distribution from the sweep of the CSA would discourage the consumption of
lawful controlled substances.
acting US Solicitor General, Paul Clement; Ashcroft v. Raich
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But what's the story about the gas station? Do tell!
Pepper Spray Jay's qualifications for working with 'troubled teens':
1. He is a college dropout.
2. He used to manage a gas station / minimart.
3. He worked as a 'technician' (aka security guard) at Brightway Adolescent Hospital.
4. His dad is Ken Kay.
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what a tool.
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daddy kay was in army, college, ca highway patrolman, architect, contractor, napa owner, real estate agent, psych tech, security guard, hospital admin. , admin coordinator, president and board of directors member.
above are his quals to preside over numerous children's warehouse and one teen age pregnancy facility.
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Its amazing how rapidly one can rise to great heights in wwasp net work, with little or no education. I suppose that's one of the major perks. Ken Kay is a fine example. While at Brightway hospital, he went from psych tech to Hospital administrator in a few months time - or was it weeks? Anyway - it was a very rapid ascent from grunt work to being at the pinnacle of power and authority - and at a Hospital, no less! Outside of WWASP, such an ascent would take decades of hard work and many years of study!
And now, here he is, the head of the entire kit and ka-boodle! President of the World Wide Assocation of Speciality Programs and Schools!
Simply amazing, isn't it, the way a person can rise to the top of such a large organization, in such a very short amount of time.
In light of this, it is no wonder that a gas station attendant would be owner and director of a school / therapeutic center/ drug rehab (what ever TB is supposed to be today) and be considered well qualified!
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BERTRAND BAINVEL
Head of UNICEF Jamaica
This kind of methods is definitely something which is
not in accordance with the convention of the rights of
the child and not in accordance with, with other UN
rules regulating the status of juveniles deprived of
liberty. There is a high possibility that it falls under the
definition of child abuse.
JAY KAY
Director of Tranquility Bay
There is, there is profit in the schools and we use that
money for improvements but we also have to pay our
shareholders as well. Because we are a company, a
corporation that has shareholders?
Jay Kay
I am one of the primary shareholders. The other
individuals ask not to be named.
KEN KAY
President of WWASPS
I say that I am totally against violating reasonable rights
of children, or abusing them in any fashion; mentally,
verbally, physically. I am not always a hundred percent
sure that the United Nations is, has the expertise or, or,
or the ability to discern the difference. I hear these
complaints and I'm very concerned about them. But
then let's do something about them. The people who
claim?
Ken Kay
We have thousands and thousands of positive letters
and e-mails from satisfied customers. The whole
controversy is very interesting to me. Never lose sight
is, the bottom line is just think if we shut down our
business and stopped doing what we?re doing,
eventually one of these kids that would come to us will
die.
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On 2005-03-04 13:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
Ken Kay
We have thousands and thousands of positive letters
and e-mails from satisfied customers. The whole
controversy is very interesting to me. Never lose sight
is, the bottom line is just think if we shut down our
business and stopped doing what we?re doing,
eventually one of these kids that would come to us will
die.
"
I hadn't seen that before. The absurdity of that statement is amazing.Being a street cop, witnessing the tragedy firsthand, I've become
convinced that drug prohibition -- not drugs themselves -- are driving the HIV epidemic and the systemic crime that has swamped our criminal justice systems.
--Vancouver Police Const. Gil Puder
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Wrong Anonymous they are licensed (the therapists) and the psychologist as well. Now, get your facts straight before you spread any lies! I hate liars.
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We could be leading these kids to long-term problems that we don't have a clue about because we're not going about it in the proper way," he said. "How in the hell can you call yourself a behavior-modification program ? and that's one of the ways it's marketed ? when nobody has the experience to determine: Is this good, is this bad?"
Ken Kay - President WWASP
http://www.tbfight.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18 (http://www.tbfight.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18)
http://www.tbfight.com/ (http://www.tbfight.com/)
http://www.heal-online.org/wwaspscases.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/wwaspscases.htm)
http://controlledminds.blogspot.com/ (http://controlledminds.blogspot.com/)
http://www.kscourts.org/ca10/cases/2003/09/02-4160.htm (http://www.kscourts.org/ca10/cases/2003/09/02-4160.htm)
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Yea, the legal system is a tricky one, and if you arent careful, can quickly have your case dismissed on small technicalities. I work in the legal field and have seen it happen. But, it just blows me away that the attorney did not even bother to respond to discovery. That is a big no, no.
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Does anyone if kids from other countries are at TB?
Canada, Europe, etc?
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Excellent article:
Friday, February 18, 2005
A human tragedy
Ever wonder what really goes on in those ?last ditch? facilities for troubled teens?
That is the question Parade Magazine recently asked its readers while at the same time introducing the book ?What it takes to pull me through?, written by Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist David L. Marcus who had followed a group of teenagers placed into an emotional growth/therapeutic boarding school.
http://controlledminds.blogspot.com/200 ... chive.html (http://controlledminds.blogspot.com/2005_02_01_controlledminds_archive.html)
The more BORING a child is, the more the parents,
when showing off the child, receive adulation for
being GOOD PARENTS -- because they have a TAME
CHILD-CREATURE in their house.
--Frank Zappa
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Hi again. I am Jennifer, daughter of BSarro.I Skimmed over some of the Parade Magazine article that was linked by Antigen. I clicked a link to some pictures from this Tranquility Bay place and one thing that was very disturbing o me was a picture of a few boys laying face down on a hard floor.I hope they were not expected to lay there for too long of a time. Could anyone provide info of how long they are expected to lay down like that on such a hard surface? I think they call it the isolation or observation room. That picture is gonna stick in my mind.I am kinda acting some frustration right now. I got my mother pissed by helping my friend post here using her name.I was forced into breaking up with my boyfriend until I turn 18.I was acting out, wanting to piss my parents off because of not being able to see my boyfriend without fear of being sent to some program. I have to cool down so my parents will not find another reason to think about sending me to a program.
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Jennifer, how old are you?
Get any money you can get your hands on honestly--earn, birthday or xmas money, whatever.
Then instead of spending it, get someone who is not your parent to open a Uniformed Gift to Minors account for you at the bank---call around and get no minimum free checking or savings if you can. Specify that it turns over to you at age 18. Have a good friend over 21 who is absolutely financially responsible and reliable but is skeptical of your parents named as trustee by the grantor who opens the account for you.
You hand the money to the grantor just outside the bank, they go in and make the deposit to your UGMA account and show you the receipt thingy, your trustee watches the money for you, and *nobody*--not your parents, not anybody---but your trustee can touch it until you turn 18.
A grandparent or one of your parents' in-laws that likes you but isn't so fond of them, and handles money well, and isn't greedy, druggie, or dishonest would be a good trustee.
That way if your parents do send you off and try to manipulate you into staying in a program past your 18th birthday, you have more readily accessible "nest egg" than the thirty bucks or less the program would give you as an "exit plan" when they dumped you out on a deserted highway.
And if your parents *don't* send you off, you get a nice little nest egg at 18, anyway.
Timoclea
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There is at least one from the United Kingdom. I hear there are often Canadians there. There was even a Jamaican there at one time.
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There have also been allot of rumors spread to all the kids at these programs, basically to scare them into being good where they are. The rumors of beatings and eating roaches are all lies. The jamaican people on a whole are very friendly people. Tourists are also scared into not checking out the beautiful jamaican countryside and wander from thier all inclusive resorts. It is a shame, but it is like the same rumors, just in another context. I see tourist scared of the jamiacans it is sad. Did the rumors also tell you that you can get points faster and get out faster at TB? Peri did you know that. other than op it is not that much different than the others except that it is in another country. I'll tell you something funny, the rumor with the jamaican people is that the kids beat on the staff, so many are scared to work there. It is all one giant game of telephone.yes the jamicans are very poor and there are some places no tourist should go, but with a good driver you will never have nothing but a great experience. Just like in the states if you don't want to give someone money you say sorry and keep walking.
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Where in the US do *you* live?
If you don't want to give money to a bum and you say sorry and keep walking, if you let that bum get too physically close to you, you are at serious risk of a mugging.
Walking around where people feel free to beg, unless they're begging people in cars at traffic lights on exits from the freeway, is walking around where you are at risk of being mugged, raped, or murdered---or all of the above.
I went to college in the middle of a major city. I had a lot of friends get mugged walking along where the bums tended to hang out and beg.
I had people try to attack me twice when I was pregnant--within about two weeks of each other, just when I really started to show. No accounting for scumbags, is there? Once on the train, when I was carrying luggage from the airport. And used a visibly hostile facial expression/tone of voice/body language to fend off people casing me more times than I could count. Had a friend shot while resisting a mugging--go winged in a leg--the victim 20 mins. earlier who didn't resist got gutshot and died. Had friends of tougher spirits fend off muggers--once by decking the mugger, once by the Crocodile Dundee, "That's not a knife, this is a knife" trick. Had friends successfully brandish their guns to run off violent attackers. Had a friend raped and murdered. Had a friend raped about a block away from where the other was raped and murdered. And I can confidently say that non-locals were in vastly more danger than locals, because they were more likely to blunder into no-go areas.
Matter of fact, when my office got a new receptionist in from California, first thing I did was sit down with her, draw a rough map of the city, and tell her which "zones" of the city the *cops* only went into in groups. Didn't want to see her picture on the evening news, eh?
The basic safety rule is you don't let a stranger trying to approach you get within 21 feet of you *unless* he/she is forced to by the press of the crowd.
If a stranger doesn't stay outside 21 feet when told to stop approaching you, you have to look at any further approach as a move in to attack.
Fortunately, the laws in *my* state look favorably on people who defend themselves after telling some stranger approaching in a relatively "empty" section of parking lot or sidewalk *not* to come any closer. (If the sidewalk is narrower than 21 feet, you either cross the street, move over at a parking lot, or otherwise act to avoid the approach of the stranger. Or you are very much on your guard as you and the stranger pass by each other. Any unnecessarily close approach is *probably* an attack--since strangers who are just minding their own business know the unwritten rules and don't want to scare their fellow pedestrians out of their skins.)
Try defending yourself from an aggressive beggar as a tourist in Jamaica and if you didn't wind up dead you'd almost certainly wind up in a very uncomfortable jail with the consulate saying, "Sorry, can't help you."
No thanks, I'll pass.
If I want a nice beach trip I'll go to Florida.
You want more tourism? Fix your self-defense laws and their enforcement, and advertise that you have.
As it is, sorry, but your murder rate is sky high---even by American standards.
And tourists are always more in danger than locals, because they don't know what to avoid.
Yeah, you can hire and listen to a tour guide. Or you can just go to Florida. Or maybe do a cruise and only go ashore at the port of call during the day in areas the cruise line tells you are safe.
Personally, I prefer Florida. Or, if I were on the left coast, Malibu. Or if I wanted to hit an island, the US Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico.
If I wanted to leave the country and visit the Carribean, I'd pick Costa Rica or Nevis & St. Kitts. Maybe the Caymans. Maybe Trinidad and Tobago. Maybe the Dominican Republic--maybe.
After Castro dies, maybe Cuba will improve again.
But not Jamaica. Or Haiti. Too high risk for me.
But if I absolutely had to choose between Haiti and Jamaica, I'd pick Haiti and hire a *good* tour guide and a couple of bodyguards. But the best choice is "no be there."
I know the safety rules in an American city. I know what I can get away with without being arrested---and that in the cities where *I* choose to go, how I can stay within the law while defending myself, if I have to--even if I end up having to kill some psychopath with more violence than sense who is stupid enough to mistake me for prey.
Jamaica? Sorry, but no way in hell.
You want tourism, clean up your self defense laws---because your crime stats demonstrate that your police *cannot* clean up your act.
As for the poor kids in Tranquility Bay, I want it to be flat illegal to send American kids outside the US to "school" or "facility" without the kid's consent. US citizens of any age should have the right to stay in the US if they choose, unless their parents are going with them and are going to live with them the entire duration of the kid's expat stay.
American citizens, young or old, have the right to certain protections from our government---and that's one of them. Unfortunately, right now our government does a sucky job of protecting US citizens who are minors from involuntary exile and exploitation.
We don't owe you tourism or anything else.
You want tourist trade? Clean up your act--at least to the point of Texas or Florida or Louisiana-style self-defense laws. Otherwise, safety-conscious American tourists looking for fun in the sun will get it within our own borders, thanks.
Yeah, Atlanta has a high crime rate. But if some fool attacks me and I shoot his ass, *if* he dies (and I'd be the first person to call him an ambulance *after* I stopped the attack and was no longer in danger of death or serious bodily harm from him) I know damned well that I'm not going to rot in jail over it. If some fool breaks into our home (or hotel room) while we're in it and one of us shoots his ass, the police are more liable to commend us on our aim than prosecute us, Georgia laws and culture being what they are. Needless to say, our burglars typically make damned sure the family *isn't* home before breaking in [insert feral grin here]. Which works for us. The property is insured. Our lives and our family's lives are irreplaceable.
I sure can't say the same for Jamaica. And I can't necessarily say that with different cultural norms I'd even have a high enough confidence level at *recognizing* the difference between an attack and harmless, ordinary casual social interaction like I would in Atlanta.
*You* may know Jamaica well enough to be able to do that. I don't. And your crime rates suck ass. And my personal safety--and my family's--actually mean something to me.
Timoclea
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I lived ia 2 major cities NYC and LA and have never been mugged, been to jamaica more than twice and have never been mugged. You must have a target of look at me i'm an narrow minded ass mug me!!!!!!!!!!
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oh, i forgot you're from the south. Never mind your attitude is ecpected. Racism is an ugly thing.
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Reappeared: http://controlledminds.blogspot.com/ (http://controlledminds.blogspot.com/)
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I'm from the south and I'm probably one of the more extreme individualist/freethinkers here at fornits, and thats saying something!
BTW, I'm not bigoted, not especially religious, not racist, although I love the Chappelle show, I dont like NASCAR (but I love motorsports)... oh, and I'm not sexist or homophobic.
In fact, I have kinky sex! :grin: Imagine that.
The inspiration of the Bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
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Screwing your cousins cow does not count as kinky!
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Good one, buddy. :tup:
But no, she wasnt related to me at all, and wont be for some time in all likelyhood. It was BDSM, not incest.No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the sources of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.
P. J. O'Rourke
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I am from the South, Atlanta, GA. I am not a narrow-minded bigot or homophobic or whatever. Just because i live here does not mean I am inferior intellectually. I have been fortunate to travel extensively in this coutry and many others. Jamaica is a very dangerous country for unknowing Americans to "explore." When I am there, I stay at the large resorts, and don't venture too far. i have seen quite a bit of the country, while it is very beautiful, it is also dangerous. The poverty is overwhelming. While there are some "good" people, you cannot logically expect to be safe in a place where there is this much poverty. The temptations are just too strong. On our last trip, back last August, while at the supposedly safe resort, my daughter was a victim of attemmpted rape. This occured in broad daylight, and i was only about 30 ft. away. Both of my children were served alcoholic drinks many times, and given large amounts of marijuana. If this goes on in the "safe' areas, what do you think happens out in the rest of the country? I know, because I have seen it. We had never taken our kids with us there, and will never in the future, if we return. I can't believe anyone would send their kid to TB! I can't believe they wouldn't at least do a little research and find out about what goes on there. It is unbelieveable. If the rest of the WWASPS schools are as bad as the one we experienced, I can only imagine how bad TB really is!
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Another southerner here. I've never lived outside the Southeast. I've traveled a little around the US, but never abroad. So I must be quite the provincial, inbred redneck I guess.
Well, I guess not! I'm still a freethinkin, non-racist, non-homophobic, left-leaning citizen; and I'm not such a rare bird here either!
I'm not even a Nascar fan, and not a Baptist either.
So all you geographic chauvinists, get a clue! There's more to a mind than neighborhood.
Well, my friends there's more to us,
Than Stars n Bars and pickup trucks.
You know, if Mama Cass Elliot would have shared that damn sandwich
with Karen Carpenter, they would both still be alive today!!!!!!!
--chongo
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On 2005-03-06 08:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I lived ia 2 major cities NYC and LA and have never been mugged, been to jamaica more than twice and have never been mugged. You must have a target of look at me i'm an narrow minded ass mug me!!!!!!!!!!"
Bite me.
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On 2005-03-06 08:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"oh, i forgot you're from the south. Never mind your attitude is ecpected. Racism is an ugly thing."
Yes, racism *is* an ugly thing. I hope you'll learn not to be the racist bigot that you obviously are someday.
Timoclea
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does anyone know if this is true about tb? i know pple there.
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On 2005-03-06 07:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You want tourist trade? Clean up your act--at least to the point of Texas or Florida or Louisiana-style self-defense laws. Otherwise, safety-conscious American tourists looking for fun in the sun will get it within our own borders, thanks.
Yeah, Atlanta has a high crime rate. But if some fool attacks me and I shoot his ass, *if* he dies (and I'd be the first person to call him an ambulance *after* I stopped the attack and was no longer in danger of death or serious bodily harm from him) I know damned well that I'm not going to rot in jail over it. If some fool breaks into our home (or hotel room) while we're in it and one of us shoots his ass, the police are more liable to commend us on our aim than prosecute us, "
Hmmm. Probably should be careful what you wish for. Since I moved to Nevada in 1991, there have been at least two incidents reported in the local media where police have broken into the WRONG home in the middle of the night on one of their crime-bustin' misadventures.
In one case, the frightened homeowner tried to defend himself against the unknown intruders (i.e., the police) by brandishing a fireplace poker. The police shot and killed him. At least the homeowner didn't have time to worry about rotting in jail over it.
Even though they were in the wrong house, the cops were cleared on the basis of self defense.
I'm sure the homeowner's widow would have been greatly comforted if the police had "commended" her on her late husband's choice of fireplace tools -- " Sorry 'bout killin your husband ma'am. But hey, that fine fireplace implement would surely add a touch of graciousness to any home..." (Sometimes the TV show "Reno 911" is frighteningly accurate).
Yep, great self-defense laws are what defines a tourist paradise.
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what i was thinking is if tb is closing, like casa did, where will all of those kids go? any thooughts? maybe that is why i saw kemper military is the next camping ground. i am thinking out loud now. only opinions.
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Depends. Might be shipped off, but if its too expensive, they might make the parnets pick them up.
its all about $$$The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.
--William Safire
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When one facility shuts down the parents are notified. Some pull their kids those who aren't pulled are sent to the other facilties.