Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 27, 2005, 05:00:00 PM
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If kids want to talk about their experiences at Whitmore, who can they turn to if their own parents won't believe them? Some parents will not believe that anything bad happened to their kids at Whitmore. They may still be talking to Mark and Cheryl who are asking for the parent's support now. Or, they just don't want to admit that they made a mistake in sending their kid to Whitmore in the first place. Some of the parents are more brainwashed than the kids.
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Generally, they'll talk to friends back home who won't really get it. If they're lucky, they'll keep contact w/ one or two friends from the program and they'll support each other while they sort it all out.
So I hope you guys on all sides are able to forgive the bullshit that's flown around here at times. I don't believe in God. My god is patriotism. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
--Andrew Carnegie, Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist
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[ This Message was edited by: Joyce Harris on 2006-04-01 11:58 ]
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I think when the kids who are at Whitmore now get home that they will be able to communicate with the other kids just fine.
My feeling is that most of the angry words back and forth are being generated by Cheryl Sudweeks.
They kids aren't really enemies. They are just being manipulated and have no choice right now.
But once they are away from Whitmore and can figure things out in their own minds, they will see that none of them had real choices.
These kids know that they didn't choose to punch out their friends while they were at Whitmore, and they know they really have no choice about these angry encounters they are involved in now.
Hopefully the parents will be able to figure all this out too.
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Doesn't PURE have someone on their roster who has first-hand, personal experience with the specialized needs of adopted children?
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PURE? Pure is a pure crock-o-shit. I wouldn't trust them with anything.
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[ This Message was edited by: Joyce Harris on 2006-04-01 11:59 ]
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Little advertisement for PURE...? Is business slacking or something for the Referral Diva?
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On 2005-02-28 14:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Little advertisement for PURE...? Is business slacking or something for the Referral Diva?"
No, I really don't think so. I think somebody's doing a little cross checking. (Thanks, somebody!)
Look ya'll, we can be cautious and polite w/o being paranoid and hostile.
I've heard, but haven't been able to confirm, that Sue refered all or most of the Whitmore kids at one time late last year. If that's true, then PURE would be the elephant in the room in any current discussion of Whitmore. If it's not true, then it ain't Buzzkill working from some ultierior motive here.
Me? I'd just like to hear a yeay or neigh from at least a few different people.
The function of the press is very high. It is almost holy. It ought to
serve as a forum for the people, through which the people may know freely what is going on. To misstate or suppress the news is a breach of trust.
--Mr. Justice Brandeis
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//If it's not true, then it ain't Buzzkill working from some ultierior motive here.//
???
If it is true - what does it have to do with me?
I don't, in fact, have any idea if this is true or not.
I am posting (as always) just saying what I think.
I haven't posted on this thread at all til now.
Personally, I agree the kids will find each other; and I hope they will also keep talking to their parents. I would advise that they try tone down the attitude when they do - in the hope the parents might listen.
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I agree with Buzzkill on this one. We were talking about kids and who they can talk to if their parents are brainwashed themselves, and won't listen to them if they want to talk about some really bad stuff that happened to them at Whitmore Academy; or some really bad stuff they were made to participate in at Whitmore.
A lot of these kids are coming home a lot more messed up than they were the first day they walked (or were dragged) into Whitmore.
And some of them are going home to parents who won't or can't believe a word their kids have to say.
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Does anyone other than me not see the irony in the fact S.S. from Pure is suing Carey Bock for having accused her of sending kids to abusive schools. Now it appears that allegation MAY be true.
Won't Carey's wwaspie attorney have a field day with this one.
Won't S.S.'s attorney be so embarrassed.
If I was referring to a school who had been accused of such abuse allegations,I'd stop referring immediately until the allegations have been proven one way or another.It seems like safe common sense to me.
Or are we seeing an EGO bigger than it should be?
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If what I am reading about the Sudweeks and Whitmore is true, those people are some really sick folks.
Shame on for sending kids to be mistreated.
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Does Sue Scheff just sue everybody she ever comes in contact with?
Talk about irony...her mother named her correctly...."SUE"
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I dunno, but I've always thought she married a killer name too. Souse Chefs are always a little high strung and squirrelly.
...it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds..
--Samuel Adams
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On 2005-02-28 21:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
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Does anyone other than me not see the irony in the fact S.S. from Pure is suing Carey Bock for having accused her of sending kids to abusive schools. Now it appears that allegation MAY be true.
Won't Carey's wwaspie attorney have a field day with this one.
Won't S.S.'s attorney be so embarrassed.
If I was referring to a school who had been accused of such abuse allegations,I'd stop referring immediately until the allegations have been proven one way or another.It seems like safe common sense to me.
Or are we seeing an EGO bigger than it should be?
"
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That has been my point all along:
That Sue Scheff should not be still referring to Whitmore Academy until the issue is resolved one way or the other.
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I'd like to know how anyone can, in good conscience, continue to refer to a program that is being investigated for abuse AND has had their license taken away. http://www.isaccorp.org/whitmore/whitmorenews.pdf (http://www.isaccorp.org/whitmore/whitmorenews.pdf)
Does PURE disclose to potential clients that Whitmore is currently under investigation for abuse?
Does PURE disclose to potential clients that Whitmore's license has been pulled?
How can PURE refer to a "school" that has no teachers?
How can PURE refer to a place that is supposed to provide therapy when there are NO THERAPISTS?
What are the criteria that PURE/Sue Scheff use to "approve" programs or schools?
Our youth can not understand why society chooses to criminalize a behavior with so little visible ill effect or adverse social impact... These young people have jumped the fence and found no cliff.
Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse
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Honestly, I think they simply refuse to believe it. They're not just saying that all critics are bitter failures who can't deal. They actually believe it.
Sayeth the one: "All are queer but me and thee."
Rejoins the other: "Even thou art a little strange."
I think that was Poor Richard, but I'm not sure. Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
--Annie Dillard, "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek"
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That would explain the "how could they in good conscience" part, but I'd still like some answers to these questions. There's no believing or not believing about these.
Does PURE disclose to potential clients that Whitmore is currently under investigation for abuse?
Does PURE disclose to potential clients that Whitmore's license has been pulled?
How can PURE refer to a "school" that has no teachers?
How can PURE refer to a place that is supposed to provide therapy when there are NO THERAPISTS?
What are the criteria that PURE/Sue Scheff use to "approve" programs or schools?
Look at PURE's "NEVER/ALWAYS" list...
http://www.helpyourteens.com/helpful_hints.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/helpful_hints.html)
specifically...
NEVER accept a program that is not accredited to educate your child,
ALWAYS ask for the staff?s education, training and experience. Credentials of those working with your child are vital. Ask if they have background checks on all employees.
Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.
--Julius Caesar
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I'm tellin' ya', a couple people answered that. They trust Cheryl because Sue trusts Cheryl and they trust Sue because she's so nice.
Those thing only apply to people who they don't trust. Get it? Just like my brother getting all the cash and effective rights to the land because he's working his program. Same shit, very slightly different wrapper.History does not record anywhere or at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unkonwn without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author
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Antigen,
I'm sorry. But these PEOPLE, the Sudweeks, are running a business, and they make approximately $4,000 per student a month,and THAT IS A WHOLE BUNCH OF MONEY.
And these PEOPLE MAY BE A LOT OF THINGS...but they are not stupid.
And Sue Scheff refers most, if not EVERY, student to Whitmore, and she MAKES A WHOLE BUNCH OF MONEY.
And all three of THEM...Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks, and Sue Scheff all know that they are doing EXACTLY what Cayo is asking about:
Sue Scheff is referring kids to Whitmore that advertises on the internet TODAY that it isa fully accredited School, and it IS NOT.
The Sudweeks list a staff of "teachers" and 3 of them are their daughters who are not certificed teachers, one is a son-in-law, one is Mark's mother, one is a non-certified karate teacher, and Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks even list themselves as teachers, and they most certainly are not certified teachers. Three others teach trade courses: carpentry, mechanics, wood shop.
If Sue Scheff is not aware of this sham of a list of "teachers," she well should be.
The Sudweeks do not have a license to have therapy--so I ask the same question: What services does Sue Scheff offer these parents that she is referring to Whitmore?
Does Ms. Sheff disclose to her "clients" that the Sudweeks are being investigated for child abuse and sexual abuse? Does she disclose that the Sudweeks "surrendered their license to the State of Utah" amidst allegations and an investigation for child abuse? Does she disclose that the Whitmore Academy is NOT a fully accredited school? Does she disclose that the Sudweeks are operating the Whitmore Academy with only a license for a Bed and Breakfast, and that getting a license for a Private School is dependent on the Sudweeks securing full accreditation from the Utah Office of Education---which by the way is auditing the Whitmore Academy's "candidacy status of accredidation" at this time as directed by Dr. Patti Harrington,the Superintendent of the Utah Office of Education.
I think not. If Ms. Scheff tried to refer any parent to Whitmore Academy, and then did the correct and professional thing---and disclosed all of the above: Any parent with a brain would take their child and getfar away from P.U.R.E. and Whitmore Academy as fast as they could.
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The word "nice" and Sue Scheff are just not two words that go together for me.
No, I would not use this word to describe Ms. Scheff.
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I was being facetious about the so nice part.
But the rest, I think, is also quite true. That doesn't mean that any of the things you say are untrue. It's just amazing what people can do w/o inconvenient ethical or legal considerations when they think they've got some kind of higher calling. This is the stuff wars are made of.
He that lives upon hope will die fasting
--Benjamin Franklin 1758
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Guess I'm just one of those people that lives in a world where things are either black or white:
If you say you have a school:
Then is should be accredited,
And you should have Certified Teachers.
If you say you're running a Private School"
Then you ought to have a license for a
School, and not a Bed and Breakfast.
If you say you don't have a license to offer
Therapy, then you should not advertise that
you have a school that offers therapy.
If you say you don't accept students with a
History of violence,
Then: no gang kids are allowed.
If you say you don't us physical punishment,
Then for sure not PHYSICAL ABUSE is
EVER allowed.
Seems rather simple to me.
Wonder why Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks can't get it?
And if they can't follow simply rules, why would the "NICE" Sue Scheff refer any kids there?
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If a person does the MATH there is big, big money to be had.
Apparently all morality and ethics fly out the window when the newed to be honest comes into play.
So disappointing. I would think illegal too.
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On 2005-03-01 22:25:00, Joyce Harris wrote:
"Guess I'm just one of those people that lives in a world where things are either black or white:
..............
Think we're all going at two sides of the same coin here. Joyce I dont' think anyone is arguing that what Sue and PURE are doing is wrong. The motivations behind it may vary, but no one is arguing (at least the rational people) that Whitmore and PURE are not living up to their claims. I think Antigen has a point though with Sue's and Sudweeks motivations though. I'm sure they believe they're the saviors of these children.
They trust Cheryl because Sue trusts Cheryl and they trust Sue because she's so nice.
This makes perfect sense to me knowing what I know about how people are sucked into personalities. These parents want to believe they're doing the right thing for their kids. They see some of the horror stories of WWASP, think they have the kinder, gentler answer and BAM! Guru in the making. So, Sue comes up with her answer....PURE. Sue apparently comes across to people as very caring and rational. When you read the story of what she went through with WWASP and she's telling parents that she'd NEVER let that happen to another kid, they want to believe her. Remember, these are parents who are already buying into all the fear mongering so they've become desperate to do SOMEthing but are afraid of the WWASP stories.
The Sudweeks, IMO, are just small time power trippers that in some twisted way also see themselves as the kids saviors. I think religion plays a bigger part in there situation obviously, but they're nowhere near what WWASP is in the sense of influence and power.
Bottom line....IMO....both bad...period.
If there is a God, he is a malign thug.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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Alright, I'm trying to "get it."
So IF Sue Scheff is on this crusade to save all these children from mean ole WWASP programs, and she was a "true believer" in the Sudweek's so-called Christian-based-love-and-save-all-children-program...
And let's just give Sue Sheff a GREAT BIG OLD BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT that she never, ever knew the Sudweeks wwould EVER abuse a kid in any way:
Then UP TO THE MOMENT the investigation for child abuse began against the Sudweeks in Nov 2002.....then Sue Scheff could have backed off, let the investigators do their job---and if she had stopped referring kids to Whitmore until things were settled ONE WAY OR THE OTHER,
,,,Then Sue Sheff could have retained her little angle wings and walked away with her reputation as "the saviour of all children" still pretty much intact, right?"
(NOW most people know, this is a "fairy tale," because parents are talking and talking---and parents were complaining about their placements at Whitmore by Sue Scheff BEFORE this incident in November 2004,)
BUT, I was just trying to see if I was "getting it" and following the motivational LOGIC of how people like Sue Scheff and the Sudweeks think.
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correction: the investigation began in Nov 2004
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Joyce.....Yes, I think that's what this statement was about. Not speaking for Antigen but it makes sense to me.
Posted: 2005-03-01 22:05:00 That doesn't mean that any of the things you say are untrue. It's just amazing what people can do w/o inconvenient ethical or legal considerations when they think they've got some kind of higher calling.
Neither in my private life nor in my writings, have I ever made a secret of being an out-and-out unbeliever.
--Sigmund Freud, Austrian-born psychologist
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Cayo: I do know what you mean. A parent who had her daughter at Whitmore for a year told me that her daughter's condition is a lot worse at the end of the year, than when first enrolled. She said Cheryl Sudweeks insisted that the girl was much better, but the parent just did not recognize the positive results.
This parent was confused, in turmoil, until I gave her this analogy.
I asked her: What if your house was "somewhat messed up," and you hired this maid--Cheryl Sudweeks-- from a PROFESSIONAL CLEANING SERVICE to come in and clean house for you:
What if you returned at the end of the day, and this maid, Cheryl, had brought in buckets of dirt and thrown the dirt all over your white carpets? And had thrown all the covers off your made-up beds and soaked them in urine? What if Cheryl had taken all of your fine China and broken it all over your kitchen floor? What if she had taken a hammer and smashed all of your antique wooden furniture?
And after you walked in and observed all of this damage. How would you react if this hired, supposedly professional person said to you:
"Now isn't everything better? please pay me."
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Another thought:
After hearing about the nice work of this "pretend maid, Cheryl"
Do you think Sue Scheff would use this maid, or refer this "maid" to all her nice friends?
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That's if you're looking at what Cheryl is doing with these kids from a logical standpoint. Cheryl is not. She's not going to see herself as "messing up the house". She'll see what she does with these kids as loving them. The end justifies the means. Sue apparently trusts Cheryl. Sue wants very badly to be the "voice of reason" in all of this. I don't think she's doing a good job, you don't, many people don't but SHE DOES. Cheryl will say that all the people saying these horrible things about her are just "disgruntled druggies" or something to that effect...and she'll believe[/i] it. You're trying to pull something rational out of people that are nothing but irrational[/b].
To the extent that a society limits its government to policing functions which curb the individuals who engage in aggressive and criminal actions, and conducts its economic affairs on the basis of free and willing exchange, to that extent domestic peace prevails. When a society departs from this norm, its governing class begins, in effect, to make war upon the rest of the nation. A situation is created in which everyone is victimized by everyone else under the fiction of each living at the expense of all.
--Edmund A. Opitz
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Who is to step in and tell these unreasonable, illogical people that they just are not allowed to damage children any longer, then?
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http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#85022 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8471&forum=9&start=10#85022)
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I read it, and I got it.
If children are placed in these treatment centers, then there is no real protection for them once they are there.
Parents have to keep their kids at home, and find a solution within the framework of their own family.
That is the only way parents can really know what is happening to thier children.
Do not send them to a place like the Whitmore to begin with.
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How could Cheryl possibly "see what she does with these kids as loving them?"
It is not love to hurt kids, to steal their belongings, to actually spit in their face, to lie to them, to humiliate them, to starve them, to make their friends beat them up,to scream at them, to call them cruel names......
What about any of these behaviors can be associated with love?
To try and say this woman loves is as crazy as she appears to be.
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On 2005-03-02 10:03:00, Cayo Hueso wrote:
Cheryl will say that all the people saying these horrible things about her are just "disgruntled druggies" or something to that effect...and she'll believe it.
Uh uh ::noway:: WWASPies, we'd be. And, in all fairness, I fully expect WWASP to try and spin Whitmore's trouble to their advantage. "See? We're not amateurs like those free-lovin' hippies down there in Nephi. We keep control of these kids! (and their damnable, shitty parents). We're the professionals". Either that or we're all just too dumb to realize how WWASP is manipulating us to their advantage.
All that's still going on.
They did have the Whitmore kids accusing Erica, Leah and a few others of being ungreatful, lying, manipulative Program failures. That's all there for your reading pleasure in this forum. But us forum rats? We're all approaching or past 40 and raising kids of our own. That one wouldn't wash wrt us.
But, and I have to say this again cause it made my day, one of the former Whitmore parents posted saying that she'd heard her kid talking w/ current Whitmore kids and apologizing to each other for the harm they'd done and mean things they'd said to and about each other. In light of that, I care less about how the adults in this saga go about gouging each other's eyes out.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves
--Ronald Reagan
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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Antigen!!! How dare you give a bad name to "free-lovin' hippie" by comparing them to those horrible-sounding Sudweeks people!
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On 2005-03-02 19:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"How could Cheryl possibly "see what she does with these kids as loving them?"
Check out some of this video.
http://www.ontheemmis.com/video_archives (http://www.ontheemmis.com/video_archives)
Then look around the rest of the site a little. This junkie guru runs half a dozen or more programs in various states. He has real influence over these kids; they believe him. And that probably keeps him convinced that he's something just short of a god. Sure, he's raking in the big bucks. But that's not the primary motivation. Cash is nothing, maybe a trophy, compared to the demonstrated adulation of totally trusting, blind followers.
I've never met Cheryl or Sue, but I suspect, based on what I've read about them, that they operate in substantially the same way.
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
--Philosopher, Blaise Pascal
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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I had a former Whitmore student who has posted on this forum and who said some hateful things directed towards me. But in a private message, this student sent a message to my child which was sincere, kind and important. It was important to the former student, and to my child.
These are just kids who are/were in a bad situation, and we have to remember exactly WHO put them in this situation--they did not enroll themselves, they did not sign the contracts, and they did not pay the tuition.
No parent sent their child to Whitmore Academy with the expectation that their child would be abused in any manner.
However these issues of abuse get worked out, parents have to remember that these kids have to still be protected as best the can be throughout the process.
The students at Whitmore learned a true sense of friendship among each other, and some of them formed bonds that will be life long, I am sure.
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Thank you! :nworthy: Now that made my day for another day.
Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proven innocent.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author
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One day these kids will realize that what Cherly Sudweeks is doing is not out of love, but is the work of a woman who has very serious problems of her own.
Kids have a way of figuring these kind of things out.