Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 06, 2005, 12:20:00 AM
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http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2555286 (http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2555286)
Licensing for 'therapeutic schools'?
"Muddy" definition: Programs for troubled teens are at issue, but some worry that boarding schools might also come under scrutiny
By Kirsten Stewart
The Salt Lake Tribune
A Senate committee hesitantly endorsed a bill on Friday that seeks to provide more oversight of Utah's thriving teen-help industry.
Some lawmakers voiced concern that the measure could be construed to apply to boarding schools and not just live-in behavioral modification programs.
Senate Bill 176 would create a new licensing category of troubled-teen programs dubbed "therapeutic schools." The measure defines these schools as residential treatment facilities catering to students "who have a history of failing to function at home and in school," private schools that offer room-and-board and "specialized supervision," or treatment programs for emotionally and behaviorally disabled youths.
There are currently no state licensing requirements for such schools, said sponsoring Sen. Chris Buttars.
"There is no oversight, no standardized mechanism to address complaints," he said.
The West Jordan Republican carried similar legislation last year, but was criticized for having a conflict of interest as head of a residential treatment facility, the Utah Boys Ranch.
Buttars has since retired, but says he is no less committed to keeping kids safe. He has made one concession - excluding boarding schools from this year's version of the bill - in an attempt to avoid a run-in with Robert Lichfield, founder of a chain of controversial boarding schools who has dumped tens of thousands of dollars into key Republican campaigns.
Nevertheless, the director of one of Lichfield's programs, Majestic Ranch, testified at Friday's hearing in opposition to Buttars' bill.
The definition of therapeutic school "is so muddy that any school like us would be drawn in," said Tommy Johnson, director of the facility near Randolph.
Johnson said the 60 students who
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live and attend class at the ranch are there voluntarily and primarily for an education. The school offers private psychological counseling, but not routine or mandatory behavioral treatment.
"We don't cater to kids with severe disabilities or psychological disorders," said Johnson, who fears the ranch would have to expand its services and charge more tuition if required to be licensed as a therapeutic center.
Johnson said she isn't opposed to regulation and stresses she endorses another oversight bill sponsored by Panguitch Republican Sen. Tom Hatch. Senate Bill 107 focuses on giving state regulators more leeway to crack down on unsafe group homes. It has passed the Senate and is expected to come before a House committee soon.
Buttars admitted his proposed regulations would apply to the Majestic Ranch, but said, "they should come under these rules."
The school has been investigated three separate times for alleged abuse, resulting in one criminal charge and conviction.
Sen. Greg Bell, R-Fruit Heights, expressed a desire to give schools like the ranch some regulatory relief, but said "Let's pass [Buttars' bill] out and debate it on the floor."
kstewart@sltrib.com
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If you want to write in support of this measure, here's some contact info.
http://lcpdutah.org/List2005.htm (http://lcpdutah.org/List2005.htm)
http://se16.utahsenate.org/perl/spage/slead2005.pl (http://se16.utahsenate.org/perl/spage/slead2005.pl)
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If you do write, be sure to point out that the proposal to exclude Majestic Ranch (or any WWASP program) is an outrage.
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Johnson said the 60 students who live and attend class at the ranch are there voluntarily and primarily for an education
... and pigs fly :rofl:
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Hey, this is a step in the right direction at least! Its a START and gets the 'foot in the door', so to speak.
Plus it might make those WWASPS fucks start spending some of their revenue to give the services they're supposed to be giving! Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
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Well, given adequate arc and thrust, pigs can, indeed, fly. So the question then becomes should they.
The term voluntary is so misused. According to officialdome, every single kid who ever sat in group at Straight, Inc. signed themselves in "voluntarily."
Of course, we were almost all minors and so afflicted w/ prohibitive legal disabilities should we lose the support and protection of our parents. Is it voluntary if your only alternative is to live on the street and wait till you come of age to finish school?
Many signed in under false pretense, having been told we could sign ourselves out after a few days or a couple of weeks. And even that was done under coercion, the idea being that after the initial "assessment" period, it would become clear to all that they were not addicts in need of treatment.
Still others were under court order by program friendly judges willing to abuse the legal system to force non-criminals into "treatment". Worse still? Some people found out years later that there never had been any damned court order!
To err is human; to forgive is simply not our policy.
-- MIT Assasination Club slogan
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Lets not offend the great cash donor to the GOP - Bob Lichfield! It looks like they are just responding to some bad publicity in the tabloids. This legislation is obviously watered down. If the WWASP programs are boarding schools - then why can't the kids have cell-phones, computers, calls home and other freedoms? They are not boarding schools.........
The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.
--Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President
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If you wont offend him, I will.
Fuck you Lichfield! :wave: I believe that relgion is the belief in future life and in God. I don't believe in either. I don't believe in God as I don't believe in Mother Goose.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer
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If this law excludes academic boarding schools
then Utah TBSs can just hold themselves out to
be "academic". Hyde in Maine does exactly that.The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of women's emancipation.
--Elizabeth Cady-Stanton
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Thats where enforcement and noisy people such as us come in :wink:
The disrespect for the possession laws fosters a disrespect for laws and the system in general... On top of this is the distinct impression among the youth that some police may use the marihuana laws to arrest people they don't like for other reasons, whether it be their politics, their hair style or their ethnic background.
Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding
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Tommy's point is very crucial to the reform of this industry.
These facilities are never going to be monitored and regulated, for what protection that would afford, as long as they can claim to be 'boarding' or 'specialty' schools.
State officials must be pressured to accurately assess what services are provided to ensure that the facility is required to obtain the proper license.
One thing for certain- they are not traditional boarding schools.
Are they a mental health facility?
Are they simply 'parenting' 'difficult' kids?
Boarding schools do not receive payment from school districts or insurance companies. Parents can't write off trips to see their kids in boarding schools.
Seems that insurance companies, the IRS and GAO would be very interested in this.
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In my thoroughly jaded opinion, they're not going to properly control these programs by any new legislation or oversight. The idea that WWASP programs should be exempt because the call theselves "schools" doesn't pass the giggle test. And all the legislature who knows anything about it knows it. And yet I'm guessing they all sat there, stroking their chins, and sucked it all up w/ perfectly straight faces.
Business as usual.
These issues have been before law enforcement, legislators and regulators many, many times before w/ no meaningful action. Rarely has anyone even got a halfway decent civil settlement, even in the most agregious cases. Charles Long II just got convicted of negligent homocide and agrivated assault, but not for murder. And that's progress!
But what does the 'street' say? To my mind, the most useful result of all this would be that the people of Utah and the rest of the country start waking up to the harsh reality that our regulators and law enforcement are simply not going to do this for us. Either we start throwing the bumbs out who let this stuff slide or we quit pretending that they're able to provide this level of protection for us. Maybe some of both.
If they can get you to ask the wrong questions they don't have to worry about the answers
--Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow (Proverbs for Paranoids)
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well, let's see......when my daughter was at CSA it cost us $53,000 dollars for one year, plus that $95.00 a month store charge. Fortunately, we had the presence of mind to pay month to month, and were refunded a partial month's fee, believe it or not. The "store" fee is a total joke, the kids buy maybe $10.00 worth of stuff each month, however, it is non-refundable and does not "rollover" to the next month if you do not use the entire amount. The food sucked, the buildings are old and ratty, the beds are cheap metal bunk beds with a thin mattress. They make you pay for some handed down uniform that doesn't even fit right, the "library" is a dusty little room with very few books, and the ones they do have are falling apart or just out-dated. There are no scheduled p.e. type activities or equipment. The girls flop around to donated aerobic videos, and after they are there awhile, they (most) look like street urchins. They have no hair dryers and the water is so cold and they have to go to bed with wet hair, so they start washing it about every 7-10 days. They sit around on their asses all day and listen to mind-numbing video and audio tapes they can recite in their sleep. The food is all high fat and high carbs so that the druggies and the anorexics can put on weight. Nevermind the fact they say they don't admit kids with these problems! They require the kids to eat 50% of each item on their plate whether it tastes like shit or not. Between the diet, dirty hair, and filthy rooms, they all end up with acne. Picture them withtheir little white faces that never sun,clad in oversized,banana yellow sweats, quite a pretty picture! Almost didn't
recognize my daughter after only 3 months. She is a very pretty girl,and that's not just her mom saying that. She is fastidious in her grooming, exercise, and diet. When we picked her up, she stank! Her hair was filthy, she had put on about 20 lbs., and her perfect skin was all blotchy and acned. I was so pissed. I can't believe I got off on this rant, sorry y'all, I was intended on making a point about CSA vs. her REAL boarding school. I will sum it up quickly. First off, it is a beautiful campus, the cost is approx. $17,000 a year, she has internet, cell phone, t.v., etc. The classes are all college prep with about 4-6 kids in each. She has only been there a week and a half, and is on the tennis team, cross-country, bell choir, and in the morning going snow skiing!She calls several times a day, has a very pretty room, the food is very good,(I ate there) and they treat the kids as equals, and listen to their ideas and input. I guess what I am trying to say through all this jumble is, how in the hell can those damn stupid people be so blind? If they even bothered to go to even one WWASPS facility they would see it immediately. That leads me to believe that all the powers that be, must be paid off. Someone either doesn't do their job, or they are dirty. Simple as that.
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Sorry so long, too much caffiene, too late at night.
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Chi3,
Cross Creek wasn't dirty like that. Before you go and generalize be aware that each facility is different. Casa was that gross. Anyhow, blind? My parents did visit the facility. We didn't sit on our butts. We had tapes true, but we also had activities. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-02-10 00:26 ]
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Visiting might not help that much. WWASP is known to put on a nice show for parents whenever they come to visit. They also make the kids clean up the gulags before they allow the parents in.
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Whatever, we didn't do any special cleaning.
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Perri,
You are correct. I should have said most, not all. I was going on info that I have heard, not seen personally, at other facilities. I don't know what every single place does, but it seems to that most people say they had no real gym-type activites. I have heard numerous times that most of the facilities don't even have basic sport equipment such as basketballs, soccer balls, baseball bat/gloves, etc., let alone a gymnasium. It is common knowledge that if you are trying to get kids healthier and keep them busy, then they should get lots of exercise. Don't you think if you had a kid hooked on drugs and having to struggle to beat it, wouldn't it be better for them to be outside playing hard, staying busy? Instead they are in those dark, dusty bunkers listening to the same crap over and over again. I don't know if all the politicians and ed. cons. that deal with this are crooks, but something is NOT right. Where is the money?????
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Also, my daughter said they did do special cleaning when visitors were scheduled. She said that sometimes they would not show the visitors to certain areas, unless they seemed determined to see it. I didn't mean the parents were blind, Perri, I was referring to the state officials,agencies, etc. My husband and I went and checked the place out before we put my daughter there, also. I was not really happy about what I did get to see, but at that particular time, we were so stressed out, worried, tired, that we were not up to rationalizing much of anything. We made mistakes, we trusted complete strangers. They talked a really good game, and preyed on our weakness.
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Chi, I think you would make a very good advocate in speaking out against these facilities. Glad to hear your daughter is finally out.
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On 2005-02-10 07:15:00, chi3 wrote:
"Perri,
You are correct. I should have said most, not all. I was going on info that I have heard, not seen personally, at other facilities. I don't know what every single place does, but it seems to that most people say they had no real gym-type activites. I have heard numerous times that most of the facilities don't even have basic sport equipment such as basketballs, soccer balls, baseball bat/gloves, etc., let alone a gymnasium. It is common knowledge that if you are trying to get kids healthier and keep them busy, then they should get lots of exercise. Don't you think if you had a kid hooked on drugs and having to struggle to beat it, wouldn't it be better for them to be outside playing hard, staying busy? Instead they are in those dark, dusty bunkers listening to the same crap over and over again. I don't know if all the politicians and ed. cons. that deal with this are crooks, but something is NOT right. Where is the money?????"
That seems to be the norm with most the schools. When I toured my son's school (of they course they knew we were coming), everything to be in order. But, when i made the decision to pull him and showed up unannounced, I was not even aloud to set foot in the school. They made me wait outside in 30 degree weather while they gathered my son and his belongings. I guess I should consider myself lucky though, because apparently they were making the kids work out in the snow and 25 degree weather, wearing nothing but pants (not even the long johns we were requested to send) and a sweatshirt. Pushups in the snow, no gloves, no jacket, no long johns, NOTHING!
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Chi3
You ahve that right! I hear the same thing over AND OVER.
The BIG MARKETING SCAMM.
Let YOUR GOVERNMNET OFFICIALS know. That is the only way changes will be made. How kids will be protected.
Prison time for the fraudulent scammers.
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It looks like the legislature is doing too little too late. They are obviously giving all of the programs a way out - they just need to indicate that they are a boarding school.
When my child was at Provo Canyon School I was given the run around by the authorities who tried to tell me that all of the state mental health laws and regs did not apply to "residential facilities." They I told them that PCS is listed on their own governmental web site - utah.gov as a hospital - not a residential facility. No one ever responded to this. PCS is still listed as a hospital in the Provo area. Go figure.......I found out first hand just how corrupt the authorities in Utah are. They are only doing this because there has been some bad publicity recently - and they are giving facilities a way out of compliance. If we had been born in Constantinople, then most of us would have said: "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet." If our parents had lived on the banks of the Ganges, we would have been worshipers of Siva, longing for the heaven of Nirvana.
--
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Chi, you are EXACTLY right in your description of a WWASPS facility. Our grandaughter was in Casa, and down to the details, had the same experience as your daughter (only, unfortunately, it was for 10 lonely months w/o ANY direct communication with the Outside World, including parents!).
The place was filthy, a decrepit failed hotel from the 60's.
The food was nearly inedible, and monotonously the same...heavy rice and beans, fish stew from belly meat, green hot dogs. This does not reflect the rice diet for her first 2+ months in solitary.
She gained 25 lbs, and she's only 5' tall.
Her parents paid the $95 toiletries fee, but she lost her soap on Day 2 and did not get any more for 2 months. She wrote (after 6 weeks there) thanking her mother for sending a bar of soap in a care package. She could only put her needs/requests on a tablet and wait for 2+ weeks, hoping to receive shampoo, sanitary needs, etc. While there, she knows one girl who tried to commit suicide by drinking an entire bottle of Prell shampoo.
She sat all day listening to the same tapes.
Their library was a joke, filled with what she called, "Chicken Soup for the Everything".
Her complexion was horrible.
The only outside time was a half-hour at 7:00 AM, playing "basktball" silently on a cracked and rutted asphalt patio area in the former shoddy hotel courtyard. When the chunkyness of the girls became an issue, Casa imported a BYU jock who force-ran them around the quad for their 1/2 hour "PE".
Her bed was a cheap metal bunk, jammed in with 23 other girls per trailer, with not enough space to pass by in the aisle.
Her only worldly goods (personal possessions, letters, a tiny stuffed toy) were stored in a small plastic laundry basket stuffed under the lower bunk.
Allowed only 30 seconds after the "Good Morning, Chica" for feet to hit the floor from their beds, they had cold-water showers, with or without soap and shampoo.
Kids ALWAYS had to clean up the place when "company" was expected. In fact, that's how they knew a seminar with visitors was planned...by the forced labor beforehand.
And, yes, her mother, like you, admitted later to having a sinking feeling while touring the facilities (even though she was being given the Dog and Pony show of the Upper Level areas, much "nicer").
Peri, Cross Creek may be a little better, but remember that approximately 600 American kids endured Casa...by far, the largest number of WWASPS kids in any facility. Thank God Mexico shut them down. Now, if only Jamaica would do the same.
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I appreciate all the support and comments. it makes me feel a little less guilty for putting my daughter in that kiddie prison when I hear of other parents who have had similar experiences. Not that I want other kids to have to go there! I think CSA and CCM must do just enough to fly under the radar, but Tranquility Bay? What the hell???? That place is worse that a real prison. I know these people do everything they can to prey upon families who are feeling helpless. Then to top off the injustice, they label themselves whatever they want to be in order to fit the situation. Your kid on drugs? We are a residential drug treatment program. Your kid out of control? We are a very strict boarding facility. Your kid have ADD or ODD? We are a Theraputic residential program.Your kid want to get ahead in school? We are a self-paced college prep school. Your kid can graduate early if they work hard, and ready to go off to college immediately. So, because they use smoke and mirrirs to keep everyone off balance as to what they really are, no one knows who is supposed to be monitoring things. And that's just the way WWASPS wants it.
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Perrigaud, I dont mean to put you on the spot like this, but why exactly was Cross Creek so much better than these places? How much of this do you think might be your filter?
Again, its not a insult to you, but this is just a touchy subject and its hard to not step on peoples toes.Those who control the past, control the future; and those who control the present, control the past.
--George Orwell
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Niles,
Filter? No, try facts. Here are the reasons I say what I say. CCM is more expensive than the other programs. I've been to Casa and agree with everything that has been said about it be it negative or supportive. Anyhow, CCM was different. We had big oak bunk beds, we had an actual gym, We had outside basketball courts, the kids are involved in team sports (the upper levels get to compete with outside teams), we had a gym teacher, the schooling did suck if you weren't able to learn by reading and teaching yourself, but they offer a college program which allows upper levels to attend Dixie State, the food was fattening, there were 3-4 girls in every room that had it's own shower, sink and toilet, my parents visited all the facility including the isolation room, we were taken on off campus activities, gym wasn't just walking around, we each had our own group therapists (a contributor to the money factor), we had indoor gym when it snowed, rained, or was too cold, our uniforms were a shirt, pants, and sweatshirts, and we did have heat in our rooms. Filter? You can argue that my statement about how the program helped me (which it did and I stand by that)is through my filter. Go right ahead. Challenge it if you wish. But facts are facts. I just don't want people to generalize and know the truth.
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Perri -
Its interesting to me that Cross Creek had conditions so much better than WWASP on average provides. So, Cross Creek is WWASPS' version of the hotel Hilton - that is no excuse for the deplorable conditions found in the other WWASP facilities.
And the fact remains, 'the program' is, in and of itself, emotional and psychological abuse - as well as physically abusive for any student experiencing isolation/OP/R&R/the Hobbit - what ever they call it; and the common, brutal restraint, described over and over by the victims.
And then there is the neglect so common in these programs - this also amounts to abuse of the mental and physical kind.
You might be interested in how the various WWASP programs were marketed to me.
Cross Creek was for the teen mental patients (thus the therapist, and why I could rest assured no mental patient would be enrolled at Dundee - Ha!) Majestic Ranch for the disturbed little kids. Dundee, TB, Spring Creek, Carolina Springs all geared toward the high school kid who had problems with drugs and alcohol and the related behaviors. But it was stressed that "the Program" was exactly the same in all the schools. It was a points and levels system, with group sessions and the seminars, which were never accurately explained or described.
There was no mention at all of anything remotely resembling OP. There was no mention of the restricted diet. In fact, Dundee's Chef was a selling point! Restraint was described as a rare event only used for out of control teens. No one told me it was in truth, Pain for Pain's sake, as a consequence for breaking any one of the absurdly restrictive rules, which were also never described. I had no idea the students were not allowed to have a conversation - or indeed to speak at all. No idea the students were not allowed to look up, or to the right, or left - None of this was explained in any conversation with Teen Help or in any of the literature or videos. All of it is intended to inflict intolerable stress (emotional abuse) so as to make the teen more mentaly pliable (programable). The common term for this kind of treatment is Brain washing. I have talked with other parents who were sold a Dundee very different from what I was sold, but I have never talked to a parent who was told anything about these other disturbing aspects of The Program, weather they bought into Dundee or TB or Cross Creek. . .
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Buzzkill,
When a parent sends a kid to the program there is a section that says something along the lines of "Should my child become a danger to him/herself/ or others they are able to be restrained (i.e. isolation)" I'll get a copy of the document my parents signed. They were well aware of what was going on. The reason why it's not hard for the programs to get away with "physical abuse" is due to the long contract. A lot of parents don't really read it and therefore are shocked when they find out about the horror stories.
Emotional abuse my ass. Dealing with fears and issues isn't easy at all. What? Do you think it's supposed to be nice and fluid? No. Get real. That's why they're called issues. Psychological abuse? I don't call my personal experience that at all. If anything it was stimulating. I'm sure this, as most everything else I say, will set some people off. Go right ahead. I'm all for sticking by what I believe in.
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Oh and the reason TB and Casa were so different were the fact that they were more about compliancy. The emotional stuff wasn't as important. That's why statistically the Casa grads weren't doing as well as the Cross Creek people. The reason the variations existed was to try to cater to different people. By this I mean that some kids just needed a lot of discipline. Others needed more therapy. Everyone's different. Oh and the restraint wasn't COMMON as you so easily said. Nice try. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-02-12 02:41 ]
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Perri - the use of the phrase "danger to themselves or others" is what amounts to fraud. Kids get thrown in Op for any number of transgressions, that have nothing to do with being a danger to anybody. Also, likewise with the restraint situation. This has been testified to and described over and over by countless post program people.
And while I was never told anything about isolation what so ever (I was given the spiel about restraint in the case of dangerous behavior)even those who are told Isolation is a factor are not told what the reality in isolation IS. The maintaining of the forced position is something that takes place in the most brutal of prisons. No one would dream it is taking place daily in a program for teens - and its hard to believe when you learn of it. But it is a Very Common aspect of isolation WWASP style. And by the by - your parents contract has nothing to do with the one I saw. I have a parents hand book - and no where in it is anything like OP or restraint wwasp style described.
As for restraint - Most of the kids I have talked to (and its a fair number now) maintain restraint takes place from three to five times a day. The screaming that results from restraint wwasp style, coming from OP/ isolation - whatever - is a very common event.
And even when a person is told restraint is possible - you don't imagine it will be what it is. Its not supposed to hurt. But restraint WWASP style does indeed hurt - in fact - that is the whole point! Hold them down and hurt them and make them think twice before they open their mouth and say another word, or shift from the mandated position.
Its monstrous what is taking place in this Program of yours every day Perri - and you are helping to promote it. I do understand you had a different experience and you have every right to talk about your own experience - but it is just Wrong of you to insist the more brutal experience others had is not valid.
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Cross Creek seems to have some of that elusive 'actual therapy' along with the cookie cutter seminars-for-all treatment. That, and decent conditions, for a change.
It still has the stupid level system of rewards for compliance and program acceptance whether or not you have any real problems, but she does realize that programs are not for everyone and there has to be reforms and regulations so that only the kids who would benefit from a program are in one.
Maybe CCM really IS different. Maybe she is brainwashed? I dont know. She seems coherant enough to me. At least we all agree there has to be regulation and reform and some sort of accountability for the program methods, and for that matter the seminars.A year from now, I'll be very surprised if there is not some grand square in Baghdad that is named after President Bush.
--Pentagon advisor, Richard Perle, September 22, 2003
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Many of these privately incarcerated children are subjected to similar behavior modification that was used in Korea and China against POW's. What happened was that some of these men began to think of their captors as their friends and that their totalitarian governements were the best on earth. This is true of some of the program kids - they really believe that some of their captors are their best friends and that the program was the best on earth. While others in the same program report beatings, hog tying, extreme isolation in cold OP rooms, forced drugging and other extreme and brutal mind control methods. What's interesting is that those who praise the programs often come back years later with post traumatic stress syndrom. What they did was use common psychological defence mechanisms - repression, rationalization and others to get through the program. So they truly believe that the program helped them. And what parents wants to admit that they mortgaged their home, spent tens of thousands of dollars and lost several years with their child just to have their childs brain messed with......
Every parent want to believe that they are doing the best thing for their child.....Clancy's Law: The perceived role of governments is to deploy ever increasing resources to the attainment of ever diminishing end results.
--Home Page (http://ozinfo.com/)
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On 2005-02-12 11:31:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"Cross Creek seems to have some of that elusive 'actual therapy' along with the cookie cutter seminars-for-all treatment. That, and decent conditions, for a change.
It still has the stupid level system of rewards for compliance and program acceptance whether or not you have any real problems, but she does realize that programs are not for everyone and there has to be reforms and regulations so that only the kids who would benefit from a program are in one.
Maybe CCM really IS different. Maybe she is brainwashed? I dont know. She seems coherant enough to me. At least we all agree there has to be regulation and reform and some sort of accountability for the program methods, and for that matter the seminars.A year from now, I'll be very surprised if there is not some grand square in Baghdad that is named after President Bush.
--Pentagon advisor, Richard Perle, September 22, 2003
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Cross Creek is the original WWASP gulag. It is their HQ, in a way. The physical conditions may be slightly better than the other concentration camps, but does that really matter? the PROGRAM is still there. The program is abusive and dangerous.
Don't forget that WWASP does not employ anyone who might challenge their methods. It is a well known fact that WWASPie "therapists" often belittle and demean the children in order to further break their spirits and crush their resistance to the program. Various survivors' statements state that the therapists' role is to assist the program to break the children down and re-wire them.
Perrigaud is very coherent. Unfortunately, she is also a WWASP graduate, who examines the matter at hand using WWASPie ideology.
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That may be true in a sense, because it did help her change. But for her it was just a place to change, not a process that did it. She didnt take the seminars too seriously.
Is there a program influence? Duh, she was in there for like a year or more.
You're more than welcome to get an account, pm her, and talk to her like I am this moment. Shes quite smart.All religion is dumb. It's one big story they're feeding you so you'll behave on Earth. If there is a god, then he's a prick.
--Howard Stern, American radio personality
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Thank you Niles. Buzzkill. I have never said that all the negative statements about the program were false. Pay closer attention. The fact that you missed that proves to me that you are another person who wants to place me in this 100% all for the program. Get real. Niles is right in saying that I realize it's not for everyone. Buzzkill, because you seemed to have missed my points I have no further interest in what you have to say. My parents contract is no different than the others. I am against the abuse and the misplacement of some of the students there. I do believe in a reformation of the program. I said it once more just so you yourself can see it.
Being a WWASPie is not unfortunate for me. In the end whether I have your support or not matters not to me.
My therapist didn't belittle me. But again ASSumptions are not encouraged nor admired by me. Break spirits. What weak people you are.
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Perri - I've been reading your post steadily. I know what you've had to say. I know your a smart gal. But you Do come across as dismissing the reports of abuse and neglect. And you do have the common program grad tendency to dismiss those who challenge your programming.
"Emotional abuse my ass."
See what I mean?
"Psychological abuse? I don't call my personal experience that at all."
You might not - but most people would.
"My parents contract is no different than the others."
Now honey - how can you know that? You can't.
"I do believe in a reformation of the program. I said it once more just so you yourself can see it. "
I know you've said this. I've watched the slow relazation that maybe something is rotten in "Denmark".
I too once thought reform was what was needed. That was early on. I have now come to the realization it is to corrupt and dangerous and I personally feel it should be closed down and the major players charged and convicted and thrown into prison.
"What weak people you are."
Now - how do you come to this conclusion? I'd rather not try and speculate.
:question:
[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-02-12 18:07 ][ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-02-12 18:10 ]
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On 2005-02-12 07:40:00, BuzzKill wrote:
" Perri - the use of the phrase "danger to themselves or others" is what amounts to fraud. Kids get thrown in Op for any number of transgressions, that have nothing to do with being a danger to anybody. Also, likewise with the restraint situation. This has been testified to and described over and over by countless post program people.
This, I understand and we agree completely. Here's the addle-brained reasoning behind it.
Think about how often and how nearly uniformly Program supporters say that it saved their or their kids' lives. That is probably the most basic imperative of the common philosophy and it is meant literally. So a kid disrupting a rap or other program activity w/ a wise crack or something would, in their minds, be risking their and their peers lives, literally. Therefore, they must be restrained because, by depriving themselves and their peers of the proper enforcement of the Program, they're a risk to themselves and others.
It's exactly the same line of reasoning that makes parents think it's a really good idea to emancipate a minor so they can legally lock them out of the house. It's all to force them into the life-saving Program. So, in their minds, it would be neglectful to go on feeding, sheltering and giving comfort to the wayward kid.
I know that doesn't make any sense at all to a sane person. But when you haven't slept and you've been on edge all the time for weeks and months, well... that kind of stress can make people very suggestible. Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proven innocent.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author
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Buzzkill,
Again, any form of therapy could arguably be labeled as emotional abuse. It's always taboo to deal with these things. Anyhow, take what I say how you want to. The reasoning behind my wanting the schools to refine themselves is precisely for the abuse and maltreatment that goes on. Parent's contract? Quite easily would I know the compatibility with other's contracts. My friends and I did our own research. Mind you these are friends that are graduates.
You claim to have read my posts. But had you really done that you would have seen that I don't dismiss people who challenge my programming. Niles is a good friend of mine. He is against the program. Ginger is also one I respect. There's a reason I do listen and take into account what they have to say. They challenge my beliefs and opinions in a manner that has validity. So no, if someone thinks differently I will not austersize them without a good excuse.
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Again, any form of therapy could arguably be labeled as emotional abuse.
Huh? ::noway:: First time I've heard that excuse/justification/whatever it is.
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Sorry to be so blunt here Perrigaud, but well...
" Again, any form of therapy could arguably be labeled as emotional abuse." <- No.
There are forms that are not abusive and could not be labeled abusive at all. Part of conventiional psychotherapy is to let people "deal with their shit" without having to deal with more stress and psychological hardship. Or, in another sense, at their own pace. And thats not with pressure to move forwards.
Making something "hard"-er than it has to be isn't a good thing. I dealt with my crap without stress, crying, breakdowns, being forced, etc.
Also, another thing I'd have to point out is yeah we do challenge your beliefs and opinions, but you chose to allow us. In seminars youre too pressured to be able to say "no" and if youre a child you CANT say no unless you never want to move up or in some programs face punishment. Thats a big problem. Forcing them to go with a program to get out.
Real psychotherapy isnt programmed, it just happens. And it does work, but it takes time and a lot of people seem to not have the patience for it. Also, comparing it to a program isnt favorable for a program which often takes years. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
--James Madison, U.S. President
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Again, the program isn't a fix it all. Going into the program you are told that things you start to work on you will be working on for the rest of your life.
And yes, any therapy can be considered emotional abuse. It depends on who is making the statement. When I say this I say that what may have worked for you may not have worked for someone else. In fact that other person may not be able to have handled it and called abuse. A therapist is there to motivate and get the ball rolling. Yes they may not be as intense as say a program but they will bring things up. Now, if people were to fix their own problems at their own pace there would be a lot of people claiming that nothing was wrong with them. If people can monitor and regulate themselves what are therapists there for? They listen but they also suggest.
I know that I personally wouldn't have done jack had someone been there to be like, "Go at your own pace. It's ok. You'll get to come to a conclusion someday." Hell no, I'd a been like Hell I aint doing anything.
This is another reason I believe the programs are helpful to people and harmful to others. It's about how an individual will respond to the type of therapy. That's why there are different types of therapies out there. Different strokes for different folks. You personally couldn't do well in the program. Whereas I did well and ended up doing well. You say abuse and I say helpful. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-02-16 01:10 ]
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That's good that you did well in the program. Others are not as fortunate as you have been. It's true that emotional abuse can occur in therapy - depending on what is considered therapy. In my profession every diagnosis - including mental illnesses - have a specific plan of care that has been established by professionals with experience in treating that particular illness. These are often refered to as "patient care standards." Now the standard of care for a patient who is suffering from depression is very clear since depression is by far the most common mental illness.
These youth programs do not follow the "standard" for treatment. Not for depression. You don't treat a depressed patient with prolonged isolation, forced drugging, sensory deprivation, punishments that last for entire days. This is not how one treats a depressed patient. Many of the youth in these programs suffer from some form of depression. You don't build their self esteem by depriving them of all social contact and punishing them by having them stare at a wall all day long. You don't build self esteem by forcing them to wear ragged, hidiously brite sweat suits all day long. These are just a few of the things that were done to my own child who was diagnosed with severe depression at Provo Canyon School.
I know that the WWASP programs use similar punishments and behavior modification used at PCS - this is where Bob Lichfield learned the ropes and gained the experience necessary to branch out on his own.
Utah must regulate these facilities - and most should be closed due to the untherapeutic care youth are subjected to.....Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
--Arthur C. Clarke, author
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Depression is also one of the highest misdiagnosed out there. We do live in a prozak nation. I for one was told I was depressed (clinicly {butchered that word}). But once I began to deal with my core issues I found that I wasn't depressed. I found this out when I graduated the program and had myself evaluated by 3 different psychologists. A lot of times what eats away at a person is all the things they haven't dealt with. Issues are like cancer. The longer they go undealt with the more they grow and spread.
The reason for the uniform (ours wasn't tattered of even that horrible) falls along the same reasons private schools have a uniform. They do this to get rid of some of the appearance popularity factor. Private schools have found the uniforms to be effective in lessening the whole click aspects.
CCM never forced drugged me. In fact they encouraged my family to not drug me due to the fact that they didn't believe in drugging unless it was very necessary. Before the program I took everything from prozak to zoloft. Nowadays I don't use anything. CCM built our self esteem by helping us work on the issues we had. In doing so our self esteem built up. True self esteem comes from inner freedom. Inner freedom to me is the ability to feel truly happy. It's in the every day things I do. All the same, I don't expect perfection. I have bad days, weeks, and sometimes months. In the end I work them out and embrace the good days. The consequences I got at the program were my own doing. If I was gossiping about another girl I would get a demerit. They never punished me for no reason. I used to use my diagnosis (depression) as a reason to do a lot of things. I would manipulate situations and people very easily. I knew it was a touchy subject. I'm not saying there aren't people who are truly depressed. I know there are. However, I also know that it's a diagnosis that is easily given out.