Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 31, 2005, 09:05:00 PM
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this is a list of PURE programs i may be adding more to it as i get further into the WWASP VS PURE transcripts. I will add more names as a find them. Here is the list of PURE programs so far:
Red Rock Academy
Cedar Mountain Academy
Sorenson?s Ranch
Lost Legacy Ranch
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this is a updated list of PURE programs some they stopped refering to for a differnt number of reasons (non-payment and conditional licesing and the program simply ask that PURE stop refering to them then spoke out against them.
Red Rock Academy, Utah
Cedar Mountain Academy
Sorenson?s Ranch
Lost Legacy Ranch
Oak ridge military academy
Turning Point
Reality Ranch
Summit Achievement
Skyline Journey
Glacier Mountain Academy
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Thank you very much for the partial list of programs, I have been following the "WWASP / PURE" threads for a while with interest. A quick google search of these four schools raised two immediate questions.
First, Red Rock Academy is listed as "Affiliated with World Wide Association of Specialty Programs (WWASP)" at http://http://www.teennewhorizons.com/pgmresid.htm. This just strikes me as odd from what I have read about PURE.
Second, Lost Legacy Ranch does not come up at all. Do you have any idea where this is?
I was also just curious where you came up with this list of programs.
Thank you,
John (Lurker and husband of a Straight Survivor)
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I have finally lurked long enough, I guess, and decided to get my my own username. I have tried to search for the other programs you added and still have more questions.
Oak Ridge Military Academy & Reality Ranch both appear to be military schools, which I haven't looked into enough to question.
My quick search for Turning Point came up with a program in Australia. This isn't where they refer kids to, is it?
Summit Achievement, I don't know anything about but you have made me curious.
Skyline Journey to the best of my knowledge was closed in late 2002 due to death and license revocation, but if you know more details or what happened to the Wardles I would be very interested in hearing.
Glacier Mountain Academy, although being referred on http://http://www.teenprogram.info/recommendations/, appears to be non-existant when you try to follow the links at http://http://www.wilderness-programs.org/Programs/GlacierMtn.htm.
In doing my quick search though, I was wondering if some of the other programs that were listed at http://http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/wwasp/WvPURE/Docket.htm were also recommended by PURE. They were:
The Whitmore Academy (From what I have read, I wouldn't neccessarily advertise this connection either)
Safe Harbor Haven
New Horizons Youth Ministries
Thanks in advance for your response,
John (Husband of a Straight Survivor)
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I just now caught that you were getting these names from the transcript. I am sorry if I sounded like I was challenging you. I thought you we an anonymous poster from an earlier thread defending PURE.
Sorry,
John (Husband of a Straight Survivor)
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i wont use my name as i dont want sued by Sue Scheif to. She is suing anyone who speaks out agaist her.
Please post all info on the programs she has refered to on here lets see if she is as evil as WWASP. I hope they both go out of buisness from what i am reading PURE is just as bad as WWASP. Just a wolf in sheeps clothing.
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[ This Message was edited by: Devlin on 2005-02-01 00:19 ]
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this is a COMPLETE list of PURE programs some they stopped refering to for a differnt number of reasons (non-payment and conditional licesing and the program simply ask that PURE stop refering to them then spoke out against them.
Red Rock Academy
Cedar Mountain Academy
Sorenson?s Ranch
Lost Legacy Ranch
Oak ridge military academy
Turning Point
Reality Ranch
Summit Achievement
Skyline Journey
Glacier Mountain Academy
Kids Peace
Harbor House for Girls
Safe Harbor
Harbor House for Boys
High Top Ranch
New Horizons Youth Ministries
Whitmore Academy
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As you read the WWASP vs Pure transcripts.
Be sure to share here with the others what Ken Kay said about his having known about the sexual relationship between student and staff in Jamaica. His son Jay Kay is the director.
Be sure to share how he stated under oath that he never took any disciplinary action against the staff member. Apparently his conversation with the student put it into a consential category. IMO a staff memeber does not have the right to have SEX with a student.
Didn't mean to change the subject sorry. To me its about priorities.
GO FOR IT.
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The transripts are priceless - worth far more than 12,500.
Thank you WWASP/S.
:lol:
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In an incarceration situation, there is no such thing as consensual sex between a prisoner and a guard. There is too much power disparity for the prisoner to be able to give consent, just like there is too much power disparity between an adult and a child for a child to be able to consent to sex.
Which is why we don't punish five year olds for playing doctor, but we *do* jail scumbag adult child molesters for "playing doctor" with five year olds.
Timoclea
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Timoclea, its apparent that the whole point of the incarceration situation-program's entire goal is to make the child submissive and to enforce a power disparity. They call that learning to 'respect authority'.
That a staffer and a prisoner had sex is inevitable in conditions like that.
Legalizing drugs is far from a panacea for all the distress caused by drugs, but it will eliminate most of the profit and corruption from the drug trade.
--Nobel laureate, Gary S. Becker
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Hey, I do want to challenge those proofs.
Not that I suspect any ill intent or bad character or anything like that. Just that I want to know the whole story.
All I know about those listed programs' relationship w/ PURE is that WWASP saw fit to seek discovery material from them during their suit against PURE. It doesn't prove anything solid w/o more detailed info.
One exception, though. At least one person w/ firsthand experience w/ Sue and Whitmore has made a statement to ISAC. Let's see if it shows up.
I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves, it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others. Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.
--Abraham Lincoln
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Sue Scheff referred our daughter to Sunrise Academy in Utah and to Whitmore Academy....UNWISELY we chose Whitmore Academy and enrolled our daughter in Oct 2004 and withdrew her Nov 2004 amid the owners Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks being investigated for child abuse. We spoke with a Mr. Boyd Hooper at Sunrise Academy. This is NOT to say that the referral to Sunrise would have been any better. Sue Scheff just "sold us on Whitmore." Sue Scheff still supports Whitmore and the Sudweeks. The therapist who was at Whitmore, he left in October told us that ALL the placements at Whitmore came thru PURE.
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The way Sue Scheff operated with US---she told us so many scary things about all the WWASP schools, and about her law suit against WWASP etc. then she told us how she "just does all she can to make sure she helps parents to get their children in a safe, loving, Christian treatment center THAT SHE KNOWS ABOUT...that she have been to PERSONALLY, one that SHE KNOWS THE OWNERS PERSONALLY...one that SHE WOULD PUT HER OWN DAUGHTER IN...etc etc until you feel like she is YOUR FRIEND. She gained our trust, and we felt like she sincerely wanted to help us. We asked if we had to pay her, if she charged for her service and got a great big NO! All we could think was, "how did we get so lucky as to find this wonderful woman who just DONATES her time and efforts to HELP people, FREE OF CHARGE like us who are in such turmoil?" RIGHT. This woman is in this business for one reason and one reason ONLY---to make BIG MONEY...and she could care less that our daughter was mentally, emotionally , physically, and sexually abused during her 2 month stay at the Whitmore Academy by HER Christian, personal FRIENDS, the Sudweeks, who PAID her grandly for sending our daughters to that filthy horrendous place!
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LOTTS LEGACY (not Lost Legacy)
Probably in Utah?
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Nil....
It may be inevitable it is not excusable, which is what Ken Kay did. His excuses in court were pathetic. The jury was appalled.The sexual predators in Jamaica have been running rampant for yrs at TB. Anyone remember the young girl who had gotten pregnantby staff.They know and do nothing about it....CRIMINAL
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If this is the only post youve read of mine then let me spell it out: Its NOT excuseable, period. EVER.
However, one of the flaws with that modality of 'treatment' is the almost inevitability of it happening. If the ENTIRE point is to establish dominating adults and submissive children this is what you run into.
I wont even go into how ridiculous it is as anything other than torture, or the psychological impact down the road, because its all been said before so much. Its anachronistic, and inhuman. For the most part we inherit our opinions. We are the heirs of habits and mental customs. Our beliefs, like the fashion of our garments, depend on where we were born. We are molded and fashioned by our surroundings.
--Environment is a sculptor -- a painter.
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Sex with a minor is NEVER excusable! Not in a program, not in a public school, not in a church, club, or any other organization!! Sex with a minor is disgusting, depraved, immoral and illegal. Black and white issue, no gray area. In our state, if a minor has sex with another minor consentual or not, said minor can be charged with rape. If anyone says it's excusable, or o.k., they should never, ever have any contact with any children, including their own. I see no difference from the one who has the sex to the one who allows it. All should rot.
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It seems to me that if PURE really refers to Whitmore and tells its customers that it wants regulations and licensing and stricter standards for all these facilities then it should explain without using words like awareness and trust and good feelings - all of which WWASP supporters use about awful WWASP- what the specific criteria it used to make Whitmore a PURE school. What were the eductational, licensing, background, therapy criteria that it met? Did it know about the association of the owners with the bad eggs in the industry and the animal abuse conviction? Did it meet any criteria other then that it convinced PURE it was anti WWASP.
Maybe its marketing program was like what PURE's seems to be. "We are not WWASP. They are bad. We are sincere. Because we are against WWASP and believe in putting families back together again you should trust us. We care about you and your children."
That is not nearly enough!
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On 2005-02-02 03:09:00, chi3 wrote:
"Sex with a minor is NEVER excusable! Not in a program, not in a public school, not in a church, club, or any other organization!! Sex with a minor is disgusting, depraved, immoral and illegal. Black and white issue, no gray area. In our state, if a minor has sex with another minor consentual or not, said minor can be charged with rape. If anyone says it's excusable, or o.k., they should never, ever have any contact with any children, including their own. I see no difference from the one who has the sex to the one who allows it. All should rot."
Chi3---minors having sex is inexcusable.
You're right.
But sometimes it happens despite parents' best efforts.
When it does, if the kids having sex are within 5 years of each others' age, it is considerably *less* psychologically damaging than when one partner is 5 or more years older than the other.
Because when you have a 5 or more year age spread, the difference in power and maturity between the older person and the younger kid is so large as to do additional damage to the kid.
Two kids near the same age having sex is not okay. It's just that with a big age difference it's worse and does more damage to the younger kid.
If they're near the same age, the adults who find out need to stop it for all the obvious reasons. If it's "consensual" (yes, I know they can't "consent" but you know what I mean)--then stopping them from doing it and explaining why is probably enough corrective action. What you have there is two kids messing up.
If it's not consensual or there is a five or more year age spread, then one of them is a predator and needs to be prosecuted.
When two minors of about the same age have consensual sex, you do more damage to both of them if you prosecute either one. Which one's the "predator" and which the "victim"? They're both "victims" of their own bad judgment. So if it's your kid you put a stop to it to protect *both* kids. And if your kid is old enough that you know you *can't* stop it, you do the best you can to protect them from damages of their own bad judgment. It's like buying an old clunker that's a bit of a tank for your teen's first car instead of giving the kid a porsche. If they get in a wreck, you want them to live to become better drivers.
Anyway, I didn't want to give the wrong impression that I think teen sex is okay. It's not. It's stupid. But there are differences in degrees of harm and who's harming who and therefore in what specific action you take to stop it.
Stupidity and predation with both screw your kid up, it's just that different corrective measures are appropriate in the different cases.
That's my position, anyway.
Timoclea
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er...stupidity and predation *will* both screw your kid up.....
typo. sorry.
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I might as well chime in here too, lol.
I'm not staunchly against sex at a specific age or think imposing a cutoff date of consent.
I know a 20 year old girl about as mature as your average 12 year old; and a 15 year old more mature than me.
Obviously 12 is too young for anyone, period, Even another one. And, the age difference of 5 years timoclea came with, or that 'rule' about your age / 2 + 5 (or +7, I forget, 7 makes more sense though) seems to be another good one. The older you are the less an age difference matters. The point here is to prevent predation and psychological damage upon the 'victim', if there is one.
Now, I'm not condoning this statement, but I am going to present it because it made me think: One time I was complaining to my Canadian friend that I cant seem to find women my own age. At the time the only ones into me were... 12, and 40. One was a innocent crush and the other was a case of sexual frustration. I wont go into any more specifics. Anyway, I ask her, what would you do? Flip a coin? or go for the 40 YO becuase its leagal? She told me that shed take the 12 year old, and I asked why:
(Toe-stepping-on-time) She said its not inherantly wrong for someone to have sex just because of their age. I go we have stat. rape laws to protect people from being abused or manipulated. She says: So everyone is automatically a predator if there is an age difference? Would YOU be one? Naturally, I said I wouldn't be. And I really don't think that I would either. She says that if people are mature and have had proper sex ed then the age doesnt matter its when you mature. She claims at 12-14 she was with people my current age, 20. She also said it was not a bad experience for her (but obviously I wondered if she was being literal or just trying to pull on my strings here). Just FYI, she was the victim, later on in life, of rape, so shed know the difference between a positive experience and a not-so positive one.
Then, another comment she made, is that the lack of sexual awareness and sex-ed she sees in the USA seems to make the stat. rape laws a necessity. I'm inclined to agree. I'd refer to my 20 year old friend whose naive as hell. Her parents *SUCKED* and kept her home too much, and she absolutely FAWNS over anyone who simply treats her nice, because apparently nobody did, including in her home. Naturally, shes head over heels for me. :lol:
Now, dont get me wrong, and dont let some baghead come out and twist my words, I'm not out here trying to start some inter-generational or underage sex thing, but I am saying that strict #s on age are unnecessary if people are actually educated and made aware - they'll be able to make decisions for themselves. Peoples sex drives kick in far before 18 and in years past people WERE adults before 18 anyway. The victorian method of preventing interaction or segregation obviously isnt going to work anymore, so a little education could go a long way.
Yeah, abstinance would avoid a lot of problems, but lets be realistic here, not everyone can do that. Part of growing up is learning how to interact anyway, so why not give some guidance instead of restriction? People who are willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security.
--Benjamin Franklin
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But the situation we have here is one in which a staff member was having sex with a "student". A staff member who had power and authority over the "student". The ability to be helpful or hurtful. This can easily be sex under duress; even when and if the "student" thinks it is "voluntary".
This is the very situation that Ken Kay described as not necessarily abuse, as it is consensual.
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In that situation, yeah, its wrong.
And Ken Kay is a twisted fuck. Hes a fatass rich man who loves to shit on teenagers who feel 'entitled' and 'eat fast food'. Well, gee, I wonder what he shoves down his gullet to keep his weight above 300?
And another thing, if students were having sex OUTSIDE of a program I'm sure he'd say its wrong and you need to send them to one.... where they'll have sex with their WONDERFUL staff! :roll: Guard with jealous attention the public Liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that Jewel. Unfortunately, Nothing will Preserve it but downright Force. Whenever you Give Up that Force, you are ruined.....The Great Object is that every man be armed.....Everyone who is able may have a gun.
- Patrick Henry
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***And another thing, if students were having sex OUTSIDE of a program I'm sure he'd say its wrong and you need to send them to one....
On Nih, that was good... classic. For one who hasn't had direct experience, you've got their number.
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Theyre one-way hypocritical controlfreaks. And by one way, I mean they can do things, but the 'teens' are not allowed to do the things they do themselves.
Anyway, I want to try something. I should come up with some benign 'problem' that could be twisted (that I know a real psychologist would not think is wrong at all) and call one of those numbers for a program and ask if I should send my child in.
If I record it in accordance with my state laws, can I use that as evidence? Or would it just be a funny soundbite on AnonAnon? Speak gently! 't is a little thing Dropp'd in the heart's deep well; The good, the joy, that it may bring Eternity shall tell.
-- G. W. Langford: Speak gently.
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Well, it would be a funny sound bite on Anonanon. And, if someone wanted it, I suppose they might be able to use it too. But it would probably be worth it just for the comic relief and truth of it.
BTW, my brother's sponsor once had him convinced that his sense of humor was a part of his "disease". So the poor sob went around for awhile trying not to be funny. ::noway:: so long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is completely self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would neither be created nor destroyed it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?
--stephen Hawking, English scientist
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I've thought of posing as a teenager and trying to send myself... how would that work?
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
Andrew Tannenbaum
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Hmm, I dunno. But what the hey! So many edcons, so few schticks!
The most fundamental fact about the ideas of the political left is that they do not work. Therefore we should not be surprised to find the left concentrated in institutions where ideas do not have to work in order to survive.
--Thomas Sowell
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Someone recently suggested that I should go down the list of known deaths in the troubled parent industry and x-ref w/ this list.
X-ref Precious children who have died in "therapy." http://mysite.verizon.net/res0g8bp/the8 ... /id74.html (http://mysite.verizon.net/res0g8bp/the8thstep-1/id74.html)
On 2005-02-01 00:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
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this is a COMPLETE list of PURE programs some they stopped refering to for a differnt number of reasons (non-payment and conditional licesing and the program simply ask that PURE stop refering to them then spoke out against them.)
Red Rock Academy
Katherine Lank - 16 years old - January 13, 2002 (Red Rock RAnch Academy)
Cedar Mountain Academy
Sorenson?s Ranch
Lost Legacy Ranch
Oak ridge military academy
Turning Point
Reality Ranch
Summit Achievement
Skyline Journey
Ian August - 14 years old - July 13, 2002 (Skyline Journey)
Glacier Mountain Academy
Kids Peace
Jason Tallman - 12 years old - May 12, 1993 (KidsPeace)
Mark Draheim - 14 years old - December 1998 (KidsPeace)
Harbor House for Girls
Safe Harbor
Harbor House for Boys
High Top Ranch
New Horizons Youth Ministries
Jerry McLaurin - 14 years old - November 2, 1999 (New Horizons Ranch)
Whitmore Academy
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Anybody know of any others? Are any of these listings inacurately attributed to PURE? G: "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do?"
EB: "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."
-- Somewhere in No Man's Land, BA4
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FYI ...
I believe that's Lott's Legacy (not Lost Legacy) Found this in the archives at Struggling Teens:
ACADEMY AT CEDAR MT. SUES LOTT'S LEGACY, THE FARROWS & SHEL MANN
(June 15, 2002)
Bruce S. Hughes, 435-867-1111 Founding Board Member for Academy at Cedar Mountain, Cedar City, Utah, 877-723-3729, announced the filing of a law suit against Bernie and Arlene Farrow, Shel Mann, and Lott's Legacy Youth Program, Escalante, Utah, Emilee Lott, co-owner, 435-826-4878. This announcement contains a response to a letter by Shel Mann, which has been circulating on the Internet the last few days to correct "the vast amount of incorrect information and confusing stories being told to parents, students and other parties." A full copy of the announcement, the Shel Mann letter, and any additional pertinent information will be contained in the Breaking News section of Woodbury Reports Online.
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Google Search: Shel Mann
About Us - http://www.HelpYourTeens.com (http://www.HelpYourTeens.com) - PURE - Helping Teens in Trouble ... - ... Hall - Kennebunk, ME blancheamber@aol.com (http://mailto:blancheamber@aol.com) Shel Mann - Eden Prairie, MN - Shelm@pondviewproductions ...
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Our References - http://www.HelpYourTeens.com (http://www.HelpYourTeens.com) - P.U.R.E. - Helping Teens in
Thank you so much for being a champion for the parent!" Sincerely yours, Shel Mann President Pondview Productions Inc.
http://www.helpyourteens.com/references.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/references.html) [Found on Ask Jeeves]
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Anybody have any current info or an update?
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Sue Scheff tried to Refer us to Sunrise Academy in Utah. We talked to the Admissions Director Boyd Hooper after she "referred" us to him.
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Sue Scheff referred us to Whitmore Academy. We enrolled our daughter there. But withdrew her amid allegations of child abuse against the owners Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks. Our daughter was there: Oct 2004 until Nov 2004
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Please add Sunrise Academy in Utah to the list
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All programs in Utah should be suspect because there are rules there that allow abusive measures such as isolation. The authorities are also reluctant to investigate reports of abuse. Reports of abuse by former patients, parents, employees and professionals often fall upon deaf ears. The polititians except huge donations from owners and operators of youth facilities. Anything in Utah should be rejected right now. There have been far too many reports of horrific abuse, death and maltreatment there. Stay away from youth programs in Utah...... :skull:
Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)
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Why won't Sue Scheff provide a list of all schools she refers to?
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Why the secrecy? Everyone knows she gets paid. May get this answer to a direct question to her: "Do you get paid for helping us?" Sue's reply;;;;"OH no, parents never pay me anything, I just want to help. bla bla bla......"
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If the parents don't pay her then it must mean she gets paid by the schools. That's even worse. It means she works for the schools and not the kid or the parents. That could mean that your kid goes to the highest bidder.
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it's nice to KNOW all of you are wrong as usual!
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So tell us what is right. How is she paid?
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On 2005-03-15 15:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So tell us what is right. How is she paid?"
By the schools she refers to. How's THAT for conflict of interest!!!!!
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If the parents don't pay her then it must mean she gets paid by the schools. That's even worse. It means she works for the schools and not the kid or the parents. That could mean that your kid goes to the highest bidder.
So then, that is an accurate statement.
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still wrong mtf'ers...all wrong.
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No, that's right. PURE is paid by the programs not the parents. Sue will tell you this, and I believe I recall seeing this explained on the PURE site.
That's partly why PURE is so controversial. One *might* tend to refer to the programs that pay the most and certainly *might not* refer to a program that won't pay, with out regard for what is best for the child. It is considered by *some* to be unethical for this reason.
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Really, as long as she's being up front about it (now), I think it's six of these, half dozen of the other.
If you call a State Farm insurance agent, you can expect to hear all about State Farm insurance and financial products. You wouldn't expect them to sell you some other company's products, would you? Now, it would be nice if it didn't take a discovery demand to find out who IS paying the bills, wouldn't it?
But look at the damned advertising! It reads like an ad for Miss Cleo. "Are you troubled? Is you life in shambles? Are you feeling particularly vulnerable right at this moment? Then CALL NOW, before something horrible happens!" (or you come to your senses) :roll:
And, in that regard, whether they have some shady conflict of interest (Bundy) or not, they're all the same. If they're paid by the parents, they're going to say whatever the parents want to hear. "Oh my, Nancy, no! You should NOT have to put up w/ Cindy dating a boy you disaprove of! I have just the place for her...."
[Religion is] the daughter of hope and fear, explaining to ignorance the nature of the unknowable.
--Ambrose Bierce
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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aren't you going to be surprised *who* is actually paying *the bill* after discovery?
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aren't you going to be surprised *who* is actually paying *the bill* after discovery?
If you know something we don't know, why not share it? Why the game?
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It is just annoying...when you are referred by Sue to an abusive school, and go back and read her web site. Then you see the BIG TYPE ON IT and it says "more or less" at no cost to the parents. WELL it just gives the "impression" that this NICE CARING WOMAN is doing you a service out of the "goodness of her heart bla bla bla." It doesn't really matter...people would EVEN BE HAPPY TO PAY HER!!!! It is just deceptive, and when you bring home your abused kid, it just makes it seem a whole lot worse that you know SHE DECEIVED YOU---and it IS all about money. Wonder how this woman even sleeps at night. Worse yet she plays on what she says was the abuse of her own kid to do all this. Makes you wonder about people. Really does.
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You might want to add Montana to the mix of unregulated states. There are more programs sprouting up there than in Utah. The state encourages programs to relocate there because they bring jobs for the uneducated & otherwise unemployable population of the desolate western part of the state. Spring Creek Lodge is the largest employer in Western Montana! Then we have the smaller players, Monarch Academy, Montana Academy and Mission Mountain, all of them reportedly abusive to one degree or another. All calling themselves "boarding schools" (which they clearly are not), to avoid any government oversite. Any facility that does not allow students to communicate with the outside, use the phone or write/receive uncensored mail, is NOT a boarding school and should be at least regulated, at best shut down.
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Do you know if Sue Scheff refers to any of these schools in Montana?
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On 2005-03-15 22:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"aren't you going to be surprised *who* is actually paying *the bill* after discovery?"
Well, I was refering to discovery in WWASP v PURE, where we got the list of programs. What are you talking about?The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.
--John Gilmour
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glacier mountain academy does exist and does have its own website. http://www.aboutglaciermtn.com (http://www.aboutglaciermtn.com) It is run by a man named larry bauer who used to work at a cedu school. i havent found much out about him or the school itself. they had a problem with an advertising practice that was corrected and a fine was paid to the state attorney generals office. this started when a parent pulled their child out of the school and he wouldnt refund the tuition costs that had already been paid for future months. sue recommended this school to me and whitmore. i have not sent my child anywhere. sue told me that her daughter was abused at a wwasp school and then she turned to larry bauer to help her daughter, she said her daughter was only there a few months and he worked wonders with her. The only problem is is that glacier mountain academy is an all boys school!?!HELLO!?!
PARENTS! if you think that your child is all that bad, maybe you should take a long hard look at how they were raised, (I AM A PARENT MYSELF) There are many books on child rearing, i screwed up with alot of things, and i am not a total screw up, but i found a psychologist/author and have read many of his books and have also seen him on pbs recently. his name is john rosemond and if you take the time to read his books, listen to his tapes and watch his shows, he makes it all make sense. Give it a shot, you may just realize that your child is as normal as anybody else's. alot of our problems with teenagers today stem from the fact that we try so hard to control them, when guidance is what they really need. they have to fall on there faces and pick themselves up again, they have to gain they're independance. think back to when you were growing up, what was that like, how did your parents react?I personally do not know Dr. rosemond, and this is not a plea for selling his books, ect. give it a try. what have you got to lose? but your relasionship with your child or your childs life for that matter!maybe there will not be a need for people like sue and pure. wwasp schools and all the same!
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check out a post on page 6 with the web adress
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Talked to glacier mountain academy today, and they say Sue Scheff does refer to them. Anyone else ever talked to them?
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I went there. Go to http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 0&start=70 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&mode=viewtopic&topic=8281&forum=40&start=70)
to read what I said about it.
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Academy at Cedar Mountain has closed. The property is back in operation under a diffrent name.
Red Rock never was a WWASP program and never claimed to be. At one point they were "donating" to Pure then stopped when they realized how the system worked.
I would not characterize Sorenson's as abusive, but they clearly are more rigid and demanding than many of the people who post here would approve.
Pure referrals (Sue Scheff) go to the programs that make "donations." Quality of the programs is not an issue. They are not, in general, the programs least likely to cross the lines that most people on this site seem most concerned about.
Froggy :wave:
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Hi -
Forgive me if this has already been cleared up ... but it's LOTTS LEGACY (not Lost Legacy).
And yeah, it's a UTAH-based program.
No surprise there.
:wave:
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Sue Scheff/Pure refers to abusive programs. Whitmore Academy is a prime example.
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On 2005-02-01 00:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
this is a COMPLETE list of PURE programs some they stopped refering to for a differnt number of reasons (non-payment and conditional licesing and the program simply ask that PURE stop refering to them then spoke out against them.
Red Rock Academy
Cedar Mountain Academy
Sorenson?s Ranch
Lost Legacy Ranch
Oak ridge military academy
Turning Point
Reality Ranch
Summit Achievement
Skyline Journey
Glacier Mountain Academy
Kids Peace
Harbor House for Girls
Safe Harbor
Harbor House for Boys
High Top Ranch
New Horizons Youth Ministries
Whitmore Academy
"
Somebody needs to take this list and contact each of the programs to see if they are still paying for sales leads that result in a placement. If so, what are the names of the outfits they are paying (besides PURE, there has to be others nobody knows of???)
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FYI, Skyline Journey is no more. They were forced to close after the death of Ian August. Just a little bump in the road. They quickly opened a new program under the name- Distant Drums- first serving over 18s, then gradually back to the under 18. And it's business as usual.
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Sue Scheff referred our family to Sunrise Academy in Utah in 2004.
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I could take legal action at any time against any and all of you.I would not want to post false statements here or anywhere if I were you.
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Yea, yea, yea, yea, yea.
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On 2006-05-02 10:45:00, Lawsuit Sue wrote:
"I could take legal action at any time against any and all of you.I would not want to post false statements here or anywhere if I were you.
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