Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Sophie on January 18, 2005, 09:56:00 AM
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I live in N.Central Florida. Montel comes on today on WCJB at 10 am. I am taping it. Is anyone else watching?
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I wish...but it's coming on a UHF channel that we don't get too well (or not at all, which was the case this morning..)
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Tampa Bay area
http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/partners/p ... 0191913150 (http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/partners/program.asp?partner_id=tbo&prog_id=2793447&series_id=590057&dbKey=EP0191913150)
EPISODE GUIDE
SHOW TITLE: Montel Williams
CATEGORY: Talk / Tabloid
SYNOPSIS: Guests talk about what happened to them when they were sent to rehabilitation centers as teenagers.
CHANNEL: 8 [WFLA]
DATE / TIME: January 18: 3:00PM
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Yeah I am watching it now while at work....catching pieces of it. Saw some of the girl from Fla program from twenty some years ago and now the girl from Tranquility Bay is on.
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watched it. It aired at 9 a.m. in my area. Sammie did a great job. I didn't know that her Sisters would be on there. It was pretty touching. There were survivors from WWASP on there and they did a good job telling their stories too. They mentioned the name "Ken Kaye" several times so hopefully, he'll become 'famous'.
And, I didn't know that Montel had put his kid in one of those places. He kept criticizing parents who placed their kids in "oversees" programs, but he said his loved one was places somewhere here in the U.S.
Straight was mentioned SEVERAL times but our "ambassador" but I find it interesting that Sembler's name was not mentioned. Looks like in this case he managed to have his name slip under the radar. I wonder if it was due to possible litigation that they didn't mention him? Hopefully some people google into "Straight" and get 'filled in' that way.
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He also said that he regrets placing his child as well, not sure what happened on his end as I didnt hear him go into that or where he placed his kid.
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The smoke has cleared and I can see the TV.
I hit the montel link on http://www.thestraights.com (http://www.thestraights.com)
for "where to watch" info.
ch 13 3pm :smile:
again 3am :grin:
Anyone that didn't call in sick today might have a second veiwing in their neighborhood.
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The stuff on Straight was so intense I had to leave the room for a while. My blood pressure was getting so high I thought I'd have a stroke. This is the best and longest expose yet. I think we may have passed a major turning point here. I wonder how many kids will get pulled out of programs over this?
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Great job Sammy and family!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you, I know it was tough talking about that but you have saved other kids from having to go through the shit the Semblers put us through!!!!!
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It's only a half an hour long? I'll watch it later today.
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Should be an hour.
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My bad, I read the guide wrong.
Thank you.
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THANK YOU SAMMIE! We are with you! /hug
Straight texas 1987
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That is a completely true statements that Samantha made today on Montel show. Thank you, Sam. I will be trying to get hold of a taping of the show.
Animals.
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Great job to all!!! I didn't realize either that Montel had put his kid in a program. Nice to hear him say that it was one of the biggest regrets of his life. Wish he would have elaborated more on that. Hopefully this will be the start of many more. ::hatter::
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I watched the first few minutes then had to leave the room. I taped it though so Shady Grove could watch it.
What "isolation room" was Sammie talking about? I'm not sure what that meant.
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Sammie! That was great. Thanks for helping me heal just a little bit more today. :wink:
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On 2005-01-18 13:36:00, Sophie wrote:
What "isolation room" was Sammie talking about? I'm not sure what that meant. "
In my experience in St. Pete it was either an intake room or the infirmary that was used for marathoning.
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In Sarasota where I was at with Sammie I remember it as the "Time Out Room" is that right Ginger?
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Very good show. to bad no names were mentioned...I did notice that that woman at the end when she talked about how to check out the programs she did say to check out the board of directors of the program...Is ole Jeb still listed on the board of S.A.F.E.
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On 2005-01-18 14:04:00, thepatriot wrote:
"In Sarasota where I was at with Sammie I remember it as the "Time Out Room" is that right Ginger?"
Yup! TR. Not to be confused w/ T&R. Ever see the inside of one of them? I still can't remember who busted my nose.- A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
- A republic is where the sheep get to pick which wolves vote on what to have for dinner.
- But in a constitutional republic, voting on dinner is strictly
forbidden.
--A Patriot
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Wait a minute, Patriot! Haunting memory here...
I remember when Sammie was brought back to group. I remember her looking pretty damned bad and wild as hell. But nobody told us she'd been in the building for two weeks! If she had been in a TR we would all have had to know about it. But not if she were in one of the intake rooms up front.
Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
--Thomas Paine, American revolutionary
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oh my God! Give me a BREAK! You are kidding, right?!
I laughed all the way through that show. Especially "Samantha". I think I heard maybe 2% of truth in her sob-drama. PLEASE. I'm still laughing. I was involved (graduate) with one of these "abusive" programs for years, and NEVER saw ANY of that- oh, except restriant of violent kids. THAT DID happen- for good reason.
So, Samantha was this great little girl, no problems or issues and mom decided one day "Let's take her to a program to have her abused?!?" COME ON!! Get real here...seriously.
The part about how they make them look like resorts, but then they get there and they're not... LOL! Sure,- my kid is doing drugs, getting arrested, etc., so I want to send them to DisneyLand!
The drama portrayed today wasn't even Golden Globe worthy. It basically showed how pathetic this lady is today. Sad. I hope she gets help she's needed for a LONG time. I think she BELIEVES what she says, which is even worse.
Dont' you find it interesting that they didn't have anyone who DIDN'T have this kind of experience at one of these programs on the show?! I emailed the Montel show to ASK and REQUEST that they have it balanced, by also having SUCCESSFUL gradutates on the show too. But no response. Hmmm.... Oh- and I LOVED the barb-wire at the beginning of the show! Where was THAT filmed?!? Not at any program I ever saw.
Anyway, I think you should graduate to the JERRY SPRINGER to tell your next "story".
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On 2005-01-18 15:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
" oh my God! Give me a BREAK! You are kidding, right?!
I laughed all the way through that show. Especially "Samantha". I think I heard maybe 2% of truth in her sob-drama. PLEASE. I'm still laughing. I was involved (graduate) with one of these "abusive" programs for years, and NEVER saw ANY of that- oh, except restriant of violent kids. THAT DID happen- for good reason.
So, Samantha was this great little girl, no problems or issues and mom decided one day "Let's take her to a program to have her abused?!?" COME ON!! Get real here...seriously.
The part about how they make them look like resorts, but then they get there and they're not... LOL! Sure,- my kid is doing drugs, getting arrested, etc., so I want to send them to DisneyLand!
The drama portrayed today wasn't even Golden Globe worthy. It basically showed how pathetic this lady is today. Sad. I hope she gets help she's needed for a LONG time. I think she BELIEVES what she says, which is even worse.
Dont' you find it interesting that they didn't have anyone who DIDN'T have this kind of experience at one of these programs on the show?! I emailed the Montel show to ASK and REQUEST that they have it balanced, by also having SUCCESSFUL gradutates on the show too. But no response. Hmmm.... Oh- and I LOVED the barb-wire at the beginning of the show! Where was THAT filmed?!? Not at any program I ever saw.
Anyway, I think you should graduate to the JERRY SPRINGER to tell your next "story"."
Just because you never personally saw abuse, DOES NOT mean it didn't happen.
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On 2005-01-18 15:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
" oh my God! Give me a BREAK! You are kidding, right?!
I laughed all the way through that show. Especially "Samantha". I think I heard maybe 2% of truth in her sob-drama.
Well, there are people here who were there with her at the time. Sorry. You lose.
I was involved (graduate) with one of these "abusive" programs for years, and NEVER saw ANY of that
Then count yourself among the lucky few.
So, Samantha was this great little girl, no problems or issues
Yes, that's very likely. Most of the kids that I was in there with didn't have a drug problem at all.
and mom decided one day "Let's take her to a program to have her abused?!? COME ON!! Get real here
No, YOU get real. Her mom was fed a line of crap just like all the other parents. She was scared into believing that her kids actually needed this place and that it was safe and effective.
The part about how they make them look like resorts, but then they get there and they're not... LOL! Sure,- my kid is doing drugs, getting arrested, etc., so I want to send them to DisneyLand!
Go take a look at some of the ads for the WWASP "schools". They DO look like resorts.
Dont' you find it interesting that they didn't have anyone who DIDN'T have this kind of experience at one of these programs on the show?! I emailed the Montel show to ASK and REQUEST that they have it balanced, by also having SUCCESSFUL gradutates on the show too. But no response.
No, I don't find anything interesting about that. Most of these shows have been promoting these places for years. Equal time.
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Anon if your so proud of your success then why not post you name like Sammie did? Tell the world? I'd like to have some ballanced dialog with you up front and personal?
Sam disregard the bastard!
Your the bomb don't forget it. You have done way above what most people would just to tell the truth. If people can't handle it then oh well. The truth is the truth and I support you as always..........
Thanks SAM!!
Your Friend..........
VSP
:tup:
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For all you know, Ginger or her husband or Greg or Pickle or even myself could have just written that trolling post. There is no monitoring on this forum, right? For fuck's sake all anyone knows is that Sammie could have possibly just written that vile post. There is no monitoring. And you call what I do trolling?
If you are going to allow any sort of trolling post to come on here, I am going to start trolling AGAIN Gin and Greg. Stop acting like you don't fucking monitor this fucking place. you fuckers are here all fucking day and check in at least twice daily. I will give you about two days to take down the Stupid and lame anonymous post defiling Sammie's t.v. testimony or I will troll just like before. Only I fucking swear to god it WILL BE thirty times worse than before. I promise. Stop playing fucking games about your monitoring.
HOW are you supposed to monitor? Figure it the fuck out for yourselves. And it better get done, that shitty post has no business on here unless my trolling posts do, too. You can't do anything but agree with it if you allow that post to be on here.
ANIMALS.
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I remember when rebel clients would dissapear for a week or two. I wondered if they were pulled, copped out or what. Noone was allowed to talk to anyone about what happened to people. They would get belt looped back to group with a dazed look and scabs all over their arms and faces.
After Straight I talked to some of those people and thought the testamonies to be unbeliveable.
One guy told me about when they had him pinned down in the doctors office shooting thorizine into his back. Straights proudest slogan was that "They were a chemical free treatment program" I wasn't allowed asprin or any drugs what so ever on first phase. I believed that slogan for the longest time. As I heard from witnesses to the inncident one said "God, you don't remember his screaming, staff kept telling the group to face forward at the steps. God they were horrid screams, I'll never forget it."
I still don't recall. At one point all the screaming just became normal to me. There were kids screaming on the floor as restrainers increased presure on their limbs into the concrete floor. Screaming and confronting in group. "He's running" as the upper phases chase a newcomer to the door. Like wild dogs, they'd all flench and jump to the occasion, but the last of the attack would settle back down in their blue chairs when the pack was already deployed. I lost attention to what all the screaming was about. I just expected it dailey.
I heard about a girl getting raped in the doctors office by a staff member in Irving. A doctor or nurse would visit the office to see clients once a week for an hour. In their absense the office was used as an extra time out room. I had a hard time believing the rape story. But what I did see and what I do know?
Hazing; Oldcomers would thump and hit newcomers in the testicles during bathroom breaks.
Sexual assult; As a newcomer, I witnessed a 17 yr old sodimize a 13 yr old with a plunger handle. I reported the inncident to staff. They were both started over with no theorpy for this type of behavior.
Forced sex games; Guys would have masterbation contests with no regard to the clients locked in the same room with them that didn't want to participate or watch.
With this I think, why is it so hard to beleive that one of these guys on staff raped a girl he was in charge of, alone in a back room for hours with at Straight Dallas.
Some things are so sad we don't want to beleive them. But we got to face them.
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Anyway, I think you should graduate to the JERRY SPRINGER to tell your next "story"."
Successful being what? That you are still brainwashed and support these programs?
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On 2005-01-18 18:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"For all you know, Ginger or her husband or Greg or Pickle or even myself could have just written that trolling post. There is no monitoring on this forum, right? For fuck's sake all anyone knows is that Sammie could have possibly just written that vile post. There is no monitoring. And you call what I do trolling?
If you are going to allow any sort of trolling post to come on here, I am going to start trolling AGAIN Gin and Greg. Stop acting like you don't fucking monitor this fucking
place. you fuckers are here all fucking day and check in at least twice daily. I will give you about two days to take down the Stupid and lame anonymous post defiling Sammie's t.v. testimony or I will troll just like before. Only I fucking swear to god it WILL BE thirty times worse than before. I promise. Stop playing fucking games about your monitoring.
HOW are you supposed to monitor? Figure it the fuck out for yourselves. And it better get done, that shitty post has no business on here unless my trolling posts do, too. You can't do anything but agree with it if you allow that post to be on here.
ANIMALS. "
Looks like dope girl made it to your couch :lol:
I feel for ya bro. Good luck.
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On 2005-01-18 15:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
Dont' you find it interesting that they didn't have anyone who DIDN'T have this kind of experience at one of these programs on the show?! I
Yes! Yes I do! The really interesting thing about that is that the Montel Show is paid for by voluntary advertisers. Those bullshit "smoke a joint, execute this adorable innocent child" public service announcements are paid for w/ money taken from us by force.
"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."--TJ
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much
liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
--Thomas Jefferson, 1791, in a letter to Archibald Stuart
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On 2005-01-18 18:25:00, Reagan Youth wrote:
Looks like dope girl made it to your couch :wstupid: (not on the couch)
Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful.
--Friedrich Nietzsche
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On 2005-01-18 18:14:00, Reagan Youth wrote:
I lost attention to what all the screaming was about. I just expected it dailey.
I did too. I think it's one of the worst and most insideious things about it. I didn't even feel it happening. I just had the illusion blown for just one horrible moment once or twice that I can remember. And you couldn't react at all or you'd just wind up right "down there on the floor" (as we used to sing... oh! the irony!) You couldn't let anybody catch you looking around to see who else might be thinking the same thing. So it was like nothing ever happened. Unless you could get rested enough to remember something, and then you'd have to worry about getting busted having bad thoughts about leaving and spend some ticks preparing a defense.
There's so much I don't remember, but then there's a lot I do to. I learned how to be made of stone. I won't say that hasn't come in handy from time to time. But I'm sure there are better ways.
All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William Kingdon Clifford
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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What does Sammie do for work / for a living? Anyone know?
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Ok, about this "TR". Are you saying kids stayed in them like solitary confinement? Did they sleep there at night? Sorry if I am being dense here...I just don't understand.
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"Isolation Rooms" = "Time-Out Rooms" - SAME THING
(I don't know why she changed the wording, probably just to explain what they were with out having to really explain.)
T&R - Talk and Responsibilities
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One of my first days there (when my memory was still functioning) staff and group yell at one individual, then at the end of all of that yelling and screaming, staff says, "WHO WANTS TO TAKE 'SO-N-SO' TO TIME OUT." Group starts motivating, (I was brand new and thought they really were anxious to take someone to time out) I thought, these people are insane! They are get all excited about taking someone to time out!! Then staff would name some people, they would get the newcomer and take them to a small room (seems to me there was a time out room in the front left corner of the big goup room, that held janitor supplies -- this is in st pete)and then there were screams and cries and wails. That was when I decided I was in this building with a whole bunch of insane people, and I better do what they want me to, or I was going to get either really physically hurt or killed.
Then these "misbehaviors" would go home with some really "strong" oldcomers and continue the torture in the home with marathoning and more. Then back into the building the next morning and back into the time out room.
I began to HAVE to shut down my memory soon after that for the shear need to keep myself somewhat sane and try to survive the best I could.
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On 2005-01-18 14:54:00, Antigen wrote:
"Wait a minute, Patriot! Haunting memory here...
I remember when Sammie was brought back to group. I remember her looking pretty damned bad and wild as hell. But nobody told us she'd been in the building for two weeks! If she had been in a TR we would all have had to know about it. But not if she were in one of the intake rooms up front.
Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
--Thomas Paine, American revolutionary
"
I remeber that tooo Ginger, and your right they must have had her up front in one of the intake rooms, I am sure we would have heard what was going on seeing how the time out rooms were in the back of group as opposed to being up front like the intake rooms. Yep I remember when they brought her back now, just like when they brought Bobby Ruggles back several times. Looked beaten down and abused.
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Great job Sammie.
Ignore the cowardly anons attempting to belittle what you did. They don't have the courage to even post a name much less go on national television and share vulnerable, painful memories. I won't see the show until this weekend but I don't have to. You put yourself on the line and took great emotional risk to tell the truth. That is as important as anything you said and makes you a hero in my book.
As for the anon-I'm sorry your experience was not universal. I really am. I wish I had seen none of those things happen myself. But I was there from late 1980 to 1983. I experienced the madness, tyranny and abuse firsthand. So I have the advantage of not having to wonder if it's true or like you try to reconcile my memories with an experience different than that of my own. I have the luxury of narrowing my questions to why and how can it be prevented.....Oh and p.s. - I am wildly successful.Jails and prisons are the complement of schools; so many less as you have of the latter, so many more you must have of the former
--Horace Mann
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Ok. 1990-1991 in Virginia I don't believe we had the isolation room thing. People were taken to the intake rooms for screaming and then brought back and sat in the back of group. And on a couple occasions I remember boys taking boys to the "showers" for more screaming I think. This last thing is a vague memory...anyone else from Virginia...does that sound familiar..were there showers?
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In Straight Dallas there were two small, roughly, 8x8 rooms with no ceilings called specifically, "Time-Out" rooms. Due to the lack of ceiling you could hear everything that went on in group perfectly, and vice-versa. The screams, racket, and scuffling were such a familiar sound in the back of group, that if it were quiet then you were just waiting for an outburst, with crashes and screams. Hearing sobbing was common too.
These rooms had tallies carved in them from the numerous days some spent in them. There was blood on these thin, plywood walls, from the constant "craving" most of these kids did, or scab picking, and painting with blood. It was disgusting, and "animalistic" as Sammie said in her statements on the Montel show. I can see how you'd feel like a wild animal being held captive, hell, I felt that way, and I was never even a "misbehavior."
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None of this shit really happened. Sammie just made it all up. You are all lieing. And dope girl is sitting right here. Straight never existed. Everyone knows you are all crazy. Hey, this would make some good shit for a really whacky fantasy movie though, now wouldn't it. I guess if we're 'not monitoring', then I can say whatever the fuck I want to say.
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On 2005-01-19 12:13:00, Animals wrote:
I guess if we're 'not monitoring', then I can say whatever the fuck I want to say."
Yup. That's the whole point. Can we move on from this now????
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On 2005-01-19 12:13:00, Animals wrote:
"None of this shit really happened. Sammie just made it all up. You are all lieing. And dope girl is sitting right here. Straight never existed. Everyone knows you are all crazy. Hey, this would make some good shit for a really whacky fantasy movie though, now wouldn't it. I guess if we're 'not monitoring', then I can say whatever the fuck I want to say."
Of course you can say whatever the fuck you want to say. What do you want to say?
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SAY?
-(from someone who does not hold it against you.)
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I want to personally say FUck YOu for thinking I want or need your permission to go ahead and say whatever I want to say since I already do it. The monitors who say they don't monitor and have edited posts and other posts when it suits their agenda not the agenda that they supposedly created for 'informing people about the child help industry'.
Since Straight Incorporated never existed, except in our heads, then I'm not sure why there is a site for survivors of Straight. That shit that happened on Montel was a hyped up joke. We can all stop lieing now and the joke is old.
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Damn dude. No need to go off the deep end. Chill. Did you get it all out of your system now? Can we PLEASE move on now?
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What about Fager's big posts about Sembler's getting that Montel show not to air?! Had it on his web site that it would most likely happen (that they'd get it pulled).
guess not. Fager just likes to also throw his weight around.
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On 2005-01-19 12:13:00, Animals wrote:
"None of this shit really happened. Sammie just made it all up. You are all lieing. And dope girl is sitting right here. Straight never existed. Everyone knows you are all crazy. Hey, this would make some good shit for a really whacky fantasy movie though, now wouldn't it. I guess if we're 'not monitoring', then I can say whatever the fuck I want to say."
Animals enough..... It is true it happened and I am sick of your big BS sessions.
Go get a life and leave us the fuck alone. You are the flea on the ass of the dog mel fucks every night.
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So...there really was a place called Straight Inc?
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Sammie : Took alot of guts to get on TV and tell your ( all of our) story..
Dont let someone who doesnt even have the guts to stand behind an internet post belittle you.
Great job! I only worry about "me and mine" and generally say fuck the world..
Yah I remember the time out rooms in the richardson building..they put thius misbehavor chick in there ( her name escapes me although I know it..)
and the next day there were the words to metallica's "Sanitarium" written in blood along with drawings of mrs petito and BITCH in huge letters..
It must have really taken alot of blood to write all of that
Goddamn what was her name ? someone refresh my memory ...was in the summer of 1988 and she has since passed away by her own hand, was it Geenae Golden?
_________________
"You see us coming and you altogether run for cover..We're taking over this fuking town"
RIP..Cowboys from hell
(http://http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Toothfairy_TP/SJR-Philthumb.jpg)[ This Message was edited by: Scarstruck on 2005-01-20 11:02 ]
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On 2005-01-18 18:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"For all you know, Ginger or her husband or Greg or Pickle or even myself could have just written that trolling post. There is no monitoring on this forum, right? For fuck's sake all anyone knows is that Sammie could have possibly just written that vile post. There is no monitoring. And you call what I do trolling?
If you are going to allow any sort of trolling post to come on here, I am going to start trolling AGAIN Gin and Greg. Stop acting like you don't fucking monitor this fucking place. you fuckers are here all fucking day and check in at least twice daily. I will give you about two days to take down the Stupid and lame anonymous post defiling Sammie's t.v. testimony or I will troll just like before. Only I fucking swear to god it WILL BE thirty times worse than before. I promise. Stop playing fucking games about your monitoring.
HOW are you supposed to monitor? Figure it the fuck out for yourselves. And it better get done, that shitty post has no business on here unless my trolling posts do, too. You can't do anything but agree with it if you allow that post to be on here.
ANIMALS. "
That could have been a random viewers opinion who googled straight and made their way here. If opposing viewpoints are monitored and censored, how do you measure success?
If every viewer of that show believed it 100%.
It would be game over. My experience in Dallas 1987-1989 was different than Sammies. Some clients always complied, were never restrained or put in Time Out Rooms. Some were so thought up into the morals of straight that they never noticed anything "wrong." While I was in straight the kids that shared Sammies circumstances were a low percentage. But I think a story like Sammies is the best one to throw out first. Then others with less tragic experences can verifiy the facts and give their account of the horrors that came with compling.
Don't censor or ignore opposing viewpoints. Listen to em, teach em, change em.
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Thank you soooo much, Sammie! Really moving. Was hard to watch.
Straight VA-87-89, no isolation that I can remember, but plenty of abuse-torure. I remember the "shower therapy". Screaming at people those showers, turning them on. Some spent days in those intake rooms, watched by oldcomers.
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Many thanks to Sammie from me too--you seem like a very strong person to be able to tell your story to everyone.
I support you 150%.
I remember lots of screaming, esp. for certain stretches of time. They would say the group wasn't doing well, and it would seem like everyone would go crazy for like a month. Screaming, restraints, fights. I didn't realize though that they really used the Time Out Room, but I believe now that they did. You just weren't allowed to talk about it, and when someone disappeared, you never knew if they had run away or killed themselves or what. Sometimes they would reappear at some point in the future, sometimes they wouldn't.
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arite.
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Greetings from Korea!
Just because Sammie is a whore does not mean she was lying to Montel.
Mr Pete sez:"Ms Petermaan,Im still going to slice your vagina to ribbons in front of your grandchildren".
AAnd Mr K Pickle (you know who I am),I will be putting a shot gun blast in your ugly face so your whore wife can see light through!
Komsomnida.
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