Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 16, 2005, 05:38:00 PM
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Hi, all the ex-cedu student. Can any one educate me about the RAP session that everyone has to participate 3 times a week? Why it is a torture to the students. Can the student not participate (I mean just be there and not doing anything). Do you think it can help someone who has depression? Is the consoler who led the session a certified therapist?
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Rap sessions are intended to bring about group "indightment" of students by other students. There is no concern over whether the indightment is just or even correct. The mission of the staff (and therapists don't run them or the complex Gestalt, bio, energetic and psychodynamic "propheets)" is to bring sufficient peer pressure and ridicule to bear against the child to make him "break" and blindly accept the culture and rules. As a theripist, all I can say is that this methodology works with heroin addicts and sociopaths, but it does damage to any child with just about any mental illness. For depressive children, it can result in suicide or psychosis - expect the same for schizophrenics, bi-polars, anxiety disorders, ADHD and especially anything resembling Autism or it's less severe types.
If your kid has any mental illness at all, don't send him to any emotional growth program. The kids who have success are usually sociopaths and healthy kids who would not have needed the place in the first place. Mentally ill kids are damaged and hospitalized repeatedly due to staff incompetence and neglegence. Most kids come out of these programs with a stark stare and a sickly appearance, much like POWs
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How about a little more blow by blow? Assume that many readers will drop in on the conversation starting right here and describe the raps for their benefit.
All religions bear traces of the fact that they arose during the intellectual immaturity of the human race - before it had learned the obligations to speak the truth. Not one of them makes it the duty of its God to be truthful and understandable in his communications.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
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Usually there was some sort of ?ice-breaker?. The facilitator would read from the rap sheet the list of names of the combatants in the arena that day. During this introduction comments could be made about your name or where you were from, what you were wearing that day, whether you happened to be pudgy of have acne or diabetes?anything. Most of the time it was ridicule. ?The razz?, the ?shake up?, or the all popular ?get in his face?, these were some of the affectionate names for this process. I have heard raps referred to as the game before, and everyone was accused of playing ?games? in raps whenever they were in the ?hot seat?. Usually the rap started out of this ?playful? rousing. Sometimes a staff member or older student might not want to wait for anything and will take it upon themselves to start doing the work they need to do. When a rap started like this?I usually hated it. I would pray sometimes for a rap where we spent the first hour casually getting razzed by the staff present, patiently waiting for our turn, hoping that we weren?t the hard target for that staff that afternoon. There wouldn?t have been a bit of yelling in the first hour in these raps I used to pray for. One hour less was good enough for me. As I look back on it, the infrequency with which a rap didn?t have screaming in it within the first hour, could be compared with frequency with which Haley?s comet is visible to earth eyes naked?with suntan lotion and in a bikini. But one could still pray
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Usually the rap opened when the ?rap sheet? had been retired and the staff running the rap said??okay, let?s have a rap?. Then all hell would sometimes break loose at once with a cacophony of names being yelled by different people directed at different people for different reasons; the first one no less foolish than the last. Try to imagine the scene: you are sitting in an uncomfortable black chair, you have been prepped and sufficiently razzed that you are actually more relaxed than when you walked in. There is a group seated in the circle with you made up of a couple of staff and students from different ?families? inside the school. When those four, foul syllables are uttered by the staff (I?ve seen happen a staff bestow the right on a timid student to command ?Let?s have a rap?) some people on side of the circle sit forward on the edge of the seat of the chair with their fingers extended. They in unison are vying to get the first indictment out by loudly starting: ?Okay, _______________!? When the facilitator decides who we?ll start with- you better hope it?s you! Because if a rap starts with ?OKAY, WELL XXXX, FIRST OF ALL, WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM?? and the staff has decided that someone else is in the hot seat before you?you can bend over and kiss your ass goodbye because you know it?s coming. And you still have to wait, knowing that the dogs had been set loose. But still you are unable to get a head start. This is the reason that I hated so much when a rap started abruptly like that. Sitting there and doing nothing because there is nothing to be done, waiting for something that is bad that is going to happen. This is what it felt like. This is in fact what it felt like all the time I was there. But it was especially evident in the first year.
I remember some of those first years worth of RAPS. They are etched moments- chutes to another time- a wormhole to exactly what I thought at that moment. I am reminded of the findings of the ancient ruins of Pompei. When Vesuvias erupted it encased the fleeing people with molten lava, leaving the perfect outlines of the running corpses, mouths open in a forever gruesome primal scream. History cannot do anything to deny the perfectly preserved moment and perfectly preserved villages covered in pumice, and lava, and layer upon layer of consolidated ash.
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Thank you for this description - but raps aren't that bad. Everything done in them is healing. I can't believe how you people see the world. Our staff indightments can only help you. I have seen a lot of mentally ill people pull it all together in raps and prophets. Raps used to be hard. Now they are whimpy and you are all winers.
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Oh sure;I'll go over this whole rap thing with ya' if you really want to know.
Picture a young man,approximately fifteen years old sitting in a circle in a room with about twelve or fifteen other young people and maybe one or two adults.
It's 1974.Our friend,the young man,the "rap participant" holds his face in his hands and stares at the floor.He doesn't know the first thing about "behavioral modification","emotional growth",Charles Dederich,Mel Wasserman,Synanon,Cedu,or even why people want to make a big deal about gettin' high.He just knows his parents don't really want him around and the suggestion that juvenile authorities want to shoot him off to Running Springs for a couple of years seems like a good idea to them,once it floats into their minds, past the valium,beer,vodka,Thunderbird, and general sense of overall futility that comes with being"poor white trash""back in the day".
Oh yeah,you've got to participate.You try not to.You play along.You don't play along.You hope like hell that these bastards know what they're doing.They don't.
The truth becomes a garbled catastrophe masquerading as emotional understanding and subservient compliance.
That's thirty years ago.Now,Who cares?...I'm afraid I do.
Thirty years ago...It's long gone...
Details?Blow by blow?Maybe later.Who knows? Are things really different now?
The vacant stare lives on.
My advice:Don't even think about it.Not for yourself,not for someone you care about,not for anyone.
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Therapists never run raps. The staff used to say "The therapists don't understand what we do." Therefore, therapists don't get to run raps. They have started letting us be in them though and I can assure you that it is a horror -
yes still today.
The facilatators (usually with an idaho High School education - sometimes not even that) calls a student to attention by attacking him or her with all types of projections of their introjected critical parent - "you make me sick" "Your Parents hate you" "you are a failure" "You are a whimp."
Then, for three hours students do what they have to do "to not become the victim - They attack the poor bloke with all of their own critical parent introgected projections. "you are nothing" "You are a sick fuck" etc. etc.
Whosoever has compassion or empathy and therefore holds back, he becomes the next victim.
This teaches kids and staff that the way one goes about solving interpersonal problems is to become a screaming maniac - I was married to a CEDU screaming maniac and this is from (BCA 2003).
If any educational consultant referrs you to such a place, you should sue them. They di violence to eac h other and to kids at Boulder creek Academy, Northwest Academy and Rocky Mountain Academy.
The kid who had his arm broken by a staff member was trying to get out of just such a rap. They broke his arm a second time by punishing him with work assigmnants breaaking ice with his broken arm against Dr's orders.
Another one of my clients there had pnumonia and was running a 104 fever and he was told "you are a faker" and was locked outside the school. He was later hospitalized and was critical. Todd Degraff did this and many other things that are hard to talk about - he was never even talked to and was thus given tacit authority to continue such treatment.
The problem is "group think." Staff are above the law, above authority - They are Gods. Very small pathetic dark Gods. And "the therapists don't understand what you do". You are right; we never understood what you do, and we never understood what Hitler was doing either. But we wimps can whimper and cry just like the kids - can't we?
Postman
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Hey!~
Thanx!Postman...... :exclaim: :exclaim:
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On 2005-01-28 19:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
And "the therapists don't understand what you do". You are right; we never understood what you do, and we never understood what Hitler was doing either. But we wimps can whimper and cry just like the kids - can't we?
Postman
I would beg to differ. I think the therapists who have posted here understand and are far better able to articulate what's going on in these raps than either the former students or the staff. That's why your participation and influence is limited. You weren't hired to actually provide therapy. You were hired because it's a licensing/marketing requirement.
...to disarm the people (is) the best and most effective way to enslave them...
-- George Mason
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Fortunately,these trained therapists are not limited in their involvement in this communication forum.Antigen, once again,clearly hits the nail on the head when identifying greedy business practice as the principle motivation behind these abusive practices.(i.e.marketing requirement)[ This Message was edited by: CEDU 1974-75 on 2005-01-29 13:08 ]
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On 2005-01-29 13:00:00, CEDU 1974-75 wrote:
greedy business practice as the principle motivation behind these abusive practices
Actually, I don't even believe that. It's a subtle difference, because the money and business and marketing is always such a tangled mess w/ everything else.
But generally, the people w/ the hands on roles in these types of places are working for slave wages and future glory. Somebody's usually making a pile of money, but that goes to grease the political process, pay atty fees and such like that.
The primary motivation is a lot simpler and understandalbe than that. Everybody enjoys a sincere, well earned pat on the back once in awhile. That's something we all need. But some people are just fiends for total adulation. They can't get enough of it. They don't care who they hurt or how they go about securing their next fix. They MUST have constant supply of dominance and praise. And they have to, absolutely need, to believe that they're martyred heroes, not sadistic tyrants. Just watch their reaction whenever you try to complicate matters w/ a little reality. You'd think you were pouring boiling oil on their toes.
Securing that fix can get pretty expensive, hence the constant need for mo' money.
To regard Christ as God, and to pray to him, are to my mind the greatest possible sacrilege.
--Leo Tolstoy, Russian revolutionary
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Excellent point.I have seen many people in various small groups absolutely believe the abusive behavior they inflict upon others is a precursor to that persons development in some way.
Being hateful and mean-spirited has always been the norm in these juvenile programs.It is now obvious,that it is the norm in organizations like Alcoholics Anonymous,as well.
Many times I have asked various members of AA,what I considered to be a reasonable question only to be yelled at,ridiculed,or otherwise dismissed with some snide nonsense.Most recently,it seems that AA has taken to "wishing desperation"on those not exhibiting full compliance with the program.On this planet,wishing desperation on anyone seems to be an unneccessary absurdity.
In all my experience with recovery and treatment programs, it seems that failure is inevitable unless one is predisposed to a mindless ,self-serving need for control and power.I"ve never been able to go for that.
Sour grapes on my part?Maybe.But,Isn't there something better? How about truth and reality,consideration of care,non-punitive education.Instead we get hands-on brutality and fear mongering and for what?Because somebody could really use a pat on the back.It's silly really,but it sure seems that way to me.
,It also seems to me,that I am not the only one who is a little tired of seeing people go down because of the scared straight,tough love,reefer madness bullshit that is employed with uneven hands and mindless inhumanity.Bullshit foisted upon them in the name of treatment and recovery.....and in the case of forced or coerced juvenile facilities......money.big money,and big, fat, lying republican money.
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On 2005-01-29 16:11:00, CEDU 1974-75 wrote:
It also seems to me,that I am not the only one who is a little tired of seeing people go down because of the scared straight,tough love,reefer madness bullshit that is employed with uneven hands and mindless inhumanity.Bullshit foisted upon them in the name of treatment and recovery.....and in the case of forced or coerced juvenile facilities......money.big money,and big, fat, lying republican money.
Ok now, you just set out a soap box w/ my name on it! ::soapbox:: Hmm, I'm gonna have to come up w/ a less angry little soapbox gremlin.
Anyway, this is where the shit hit the fan for me. I really had no idea how the industry had grown while I was busy working shit jobs to support our kids. Never read a paper, rarely watched the evening news, never understood what I was hearing when I did.
Then Brother Jeb took up residence in this public housing unit in Tallahassee http://www.floridagovernorsmansion.com/ (http://www.floridagovernorsmansion.com/)
That creeped me out just a little because I was vaguely aware that Büsh I and Reagan were more than just coworkers; they were really tight politically, if not socially for decades. And I remembered Nancy Reagan visiting Straight back in the early `80's and the horribly disturbing feeling I always got that the Just Say No campaign had to have been planned and carried out by Straightlings. But I (again) wrote it off as leftover paranoia from my days with that weird little cult that got shut down.
But when that smug SOB came out w/ his game-plan for Florida, headlined w/ a promise to spend $100 Million of my tax dollars on juvenile rehab, I went doc diving ..... intensely... obsessively every damned day for about 6 months straight.
One of my aims in keeping this site growing is to provide a concrete answer to a rhetorical question that we all hear over and over again. When you hear about something like how we're crop-dusting the pristine jungles of So. America w/ reformulated Roundup (which is just reformulated Agent Orange, btw) in an effort to enforce American prohibition on the primary local sacrement, ya' have to shake your head and wonder what kind of Pinkey and the Brain lunatic ever dreamt up that horror story, well leme bend your ear! I can answer that in grousome detail. You ought to see what these sadistic lunatics do to their own children when they piss dirty!
In fact, if you watch serious, credible drug policy reform issues and reporting, you can almost count on finding Sembler, DFAF, DuPont, Enoch Gordias (who's name I find quite ironic) or some other close affiliate Sembler's mischief machine connected to the most outrageous stories that ever get ink.
If I could get anybody to take the bet, I'd be a rich woman using this theory.
Now I wonder what the rest of the industry is up to. We've been blessed w/ a few really good researchers among former Straight clients so we have tons of documentation. Basically, we take that stuff and cross reference the important names (and sometimes insignificant name that just seem to show up everywhere--Bill Oliver, for example) and we find out who else's faces their pissing in and compare notes.
I'm waiting for that to happen in the CEDU/WWASP areana as well as the Bethel/Palmer branch.
If any research bug reads this, I'd suggest you start out looking at who has backed the Federal Faith Based Initiatives thing the most.
I am married, not Buried !
-- Steve Webb
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Ginger is correct. They didn't really want us there - we only were there so school districts would provide Non-Public School funding. Without therapists, that money wouldn't come in. Also, for the private-pay parents, it looked good to have therapists. But, believe me - the school NEVER followed our direction. They barely tolerated us.
I personally was pressured to participate in propheets, but I knew they were unethical and abusive. No one in the school would tell me what went on in them, but the kids did. Due to the ignorance of the staff, the overt efforts of team leaders to ignore our direction, the really stupid and inappropriate "treatment" I saw, and what the kids told me, I am no longer there. CEDU was happy to see me go.
I don't remember hearing any therapist tell me that he or she participated in a propheet, but it's been a few years, and I may just be forgetting. However, I do recall that there were significant philosophical differences between CEDU and therapists. It was funny in a really twisted way - the staff accused us of not really understanding how these kids functioned and how they "manipulated" us. I think that was the only word they knew - "manipulate." We were ignorant and led astray by the kids. Never mind the years and years of REAL college and REAL training we had. Many staff had high school educations only - or that famous CEDU "education" from California Coast College. This is an unaccredited, distance school.
I'm very happy to no longer be connected with that "therapeutic" boarding school.
On 2005-01-29 12:22:00, Antigen wrote:
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On 2005-01-28 19:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
And "the therapists don't understand what you do". You are right; we never understood what you do, and we never understood what Hitler was doing either. But we wimps can whimper and cry just like the kids - can't we?
Postman
I would beg to differ. I think the therapists who have posted here understand and are far better able to articulate what's going on in these raps than either the former students or the staff. That's why your participation and influence is limited. You weren't hired to actually provide therapy. You were hired because it's a licensing/marketing requirement.
...to disarm the people (is) the best and most effective way to enslave them...
-- George Mason
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You are absoutelly Right Ginger? It was LaTresa at boulder creek academy who said that "the therapist don't understand what we do"
Yes, We understand it is abusive, and, when we speak up about it or try to make things better we are removed and rumors of our incompetence are then circulated in the community to ensure that we are ruined.
I am moving to another state for exactly that reason.
Can we talk so I can post again?
Postman
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They did the same thing at Straight. They'd hire a "Dr." (usually of education or something), give him an impressive title, stroke his ego, but never give him any meaningful access to the group.
They were treated almost as much like mushrooms as we were. They should have known better, though, as adults w/ the freedom to come and go. But most of the ones I know of just threw themselves into it and pretended to be martyred heros. I would imagine some of the therapists you worked with probably fell for it too.If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the
government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees.
--President Bill Clinton
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Only one therapist out of about 20 fell for it. But, they didn;t actually fall for it, they just played the game because they wanted the money.
Nevertheless, at least a large majority of the therapists were unwilling to sell their soul.
The one at BCA who sold his soul is still there - the others come and go - come and go
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Postman, are you talking to me or to Ginger?
On 2005-02-02 13:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You are absoutelly Right Ginger? It was LaTresa at boulder creek academy who said that "the therapist don't understand what we do"
Yes, We understand it is abusive, and, when we speak up about it or try to make things better we are removed and rumors of our incompetence are then circulated in the community to ensure that we are ruined.
I am moving to another state for exactly that reason.
Can we talk so I can post again?
Postman"
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You ex-therapist types make me puke---you liked CEDu enough when they were paying you---now you're all indignant about their methods---where's your proof that they are doing anything illegal or unethical---or are you just somebody who lost a paycheck and now wants to whine about it
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I was talking to Ginger Jack
I really appreaciate your posts
Thank you
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On 2005-02-03 15:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You ex-therapist types make me puke---you liked CEDu enough when they were paying you---now you're all indignant about their methods---where's your proof that they are doing anything illegal or unethical---or are you just somebody who lost a paycheck and now wants to whine about it"
Hey, it's easy to get taken in, at least peripherally. Even when you're conciously resisting and going along, for whatever reasons. When I was in and for a short while after I got out, I didn't percieve what I saw and experienced at Straight to have been abusive. I understand getting involuntarily influenced, regardless of the type of pressure keeping you there.
But does your explanation really hold water? Have you read some of what these guys have reported? And yet you conclude that the only reason they're "badmouthing" CEDU is because they lost a shit job there years ago?
Isn't Thayer one of the CEDU line of schools? Do you believe their story about the kid who died from a spider bite? This kid had broken bones, scrapes, bruises and infection that were neglected for weeks! I have to tell ya', that must have been one fucking HUGE spider! Like right out of a Tolkien sotry!
And yet, they believe! That's the mentality you're demonstrating here. IF it conflicts w/ Program dogma THEN it must be false, THEREFORE there must be some other explanation. What are you gonna believe, the Program or your own eyes and ears?
If life were fair, Dan Quayle would be making a living asking 'Do you want fries with that?'
John Cleese
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no, Thayer is not an affiliated CEDU school.
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Where are Bryan Foolsher and Queen of Serbia??/They were way amusing to read now and then---now they seem to be gone-- did the men in the white coats finally round them up---back to do the Summit the right way LOL now that would be fucking hilarious, I'd pay to see it---maybe a new reality show---emotional growth failures reach their late twenties, psych-out and get sent back to CEDU for one last try at being normal
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I understand your anger. However, I was there only a few months. As soon as I realized what was going on, I started looking for a job. Do not lable nor blame people until you know their stories.
On 2005-02-03 15:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You ex-therapist types make me puke---you liked CEDu enough when they were paying you---now you're all indignant about their methods---where's your proof that they are doing anything illegal or unethical---or are you just somebody who lost a paycheck and now wants to whine about it"
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Okay - but I'm not Jack.
On 2005-02-04 13:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I was talking to Ginger Jack
I really appreaciate your posts
Thank you"
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Come on out SOS---you got flamed bad at cedu alumni but that's no reason to sit in the corner and suck your thumb---or Bryan's you-know-waht---come on out guys the place makes sense without you---can't have that---poor old Ginger "Gingivitis" Antigen won't be able to make sense of a world without drugs and psychos
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On 2005-01-17 11:26:00, blownawaytheidahoway wrote:
"Usually the rap opened when the ?rap sheet? had been retired and the staff running the rap said??okay, let?s have a rap?. Then all hell would sometimes break loose at once with a cacophony of names being yelled by different people directed at different people for different reasons; the first one no less foolish than the last. Try to imagine the scene: you are sitting in an uncomfortable black chair, you have been prepped and sufficiently razzed that you are actually more relaxed than when you walked in. There is a group seated in the circle with you made up of a couple of staff and students from different ?families? inside the school. When those four, foul syllables are uttered by the staff (I?ve seen happen a staff bestow the right on a timid student to command ?Let?s have a rap?) some people on side of the circle sit forward on the edge of the seat of the chair with their fingers extended. They in unison are vying to get the first indictment out by loudly starting: ?Okay, _______________!? When the facilitator decides who we?ll start with- you better hope it?s you! Because if a rap starts with ?OKAY, WELL XXXX, FIRST OF ALL, WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM?? and the staff has decided that someone else is in the hot seat before you?you can bend over and kiss your ass goodbye because you know it?s coming. And you still have to wait, knowing that the dogs had been set loose. But still you are unable to get a head start. This is the reason that I hated so much when a rap started abruptly like that. Sitting there and doing nothing because there is nothing to be done, waiting for something that is bad that is going to happen. This is what it felt like. This is in fact what it felt like all the time I was there. But it was especially evident in the first year.
I remember some of those first years worth of RAPS. They are etched moments- chutes to another time- a wormhole to exactly what I thought at that moment. I am reminded of the findings of the ancient ruins of Pompei. When Vesuvias erupted it encased the fleeing people with molten lava, leaving the perfect outlines of the running corpses, mouths open in a forever gruesome primal scream. History cannot do anything to deny the perfectly preserved moment and perfectly preserved villages covered in pumice, and lava, and layer upon layer of consolidated ash.
"
And I remember my second rap too:
Caroline Wolfe started that rap fucking with everybody, in particular a couple of boys who weren?t allowed to talk to me for some reason. I?m sitting there staring at the fan, trying to avoid the world at this point, wishing I was back East puffing on a joint behind my neighboors fence with a friend from home. Caroline says, ?Hey, new guy?! She had this uncanny ability to smile and raise her voice by 75 decibels at the same time, all the while snapping on piece of gum. Caroline was allowed to chew gum all the time, we were not. My periphery twinkled into focus. I was pinned to my black chair. I didn?t know what was what now but I had learned something from the first rap with Stacy. When a person had switched chairs with me to scream at this one dude, I noticed that the boxier black chairs were much more comfortable than the ones with rounded frames and feet. I felt a humble consolation in the realization at the beginning of this particular rap that I had scored a more comfortable seat. My ass was molded to it now and the July sun outside was sending a searing light into the center of the circle. The blood ran to my face and I felt the eyes shift in unison to me. I kept my eyes on the fan, it was like being woken up abruptly. I couldn?t yet think of looking at her. She continued. ?You can?t ask a girl in the woods to run away with you, Ok?? You?re new so I?ll just tell you there is no running away, no fucking the girls, GOT IT?
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The uncertainty in a rap was in itself one of the characteristics of a rap. You did not know what was going to happen. And as with every other thing on the planet, you become desensitized to any atmosphere somewhat as you are in it. As I moved through the program, I would become used to almost everything I will describe. At first I felt sometimes like I was about to witness a terrible act of brutality. Raps were very aggressive. Physically, I mean; sometimes I thought a person was just going to snap and kick the living shit out of the person laying the indictment on them. I know it happened occasionally, as I witnessed some very close calls. For it seemed often that the staff were TRYING to get you to go off of the deep end. It was the staff and older students that kept the feeling of uncertainty alive in raps all of the time.
Sometimes I even felt like I might see someone die. The terrific impact of internalized feelings being coaxed or forced out purposefully is amazing to behold. I saw all sorts of physical alterations. Veins and capillaries bursting in the face and eyes from leaning towards the floor and screaming at their mother or father. The imagined faces were mouthing insults insinuated by the staff members. I saw faces turn so purple from anger being coerced out of them that blood ran freely from the nose. I have choked on mucus trying to breathe. I have helped young men and women off of the floor who had passed into unconcioussness from yelling at themselves, and telling themselves or others the most horrific things.
Occasionally, even after I had been there for a while, I would feel still that things were somehow staged. Especially if there was one of the VIPs running the rap that day, then there would really be a show. The expectations were great and the rewards painful if you could not perform the rituals correctly. You had to participate every time. You could not really go more than one or two hours without being at the very least vocal.
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A lot of it I noticed had to do with the staff that ran them. The tone of the rap was definatly set by the facilitator. I know I for sure had a preference when it came to whose rap I wanted to be in, plenty of staff whose raps I avoided at all cost (but unfortunatly at the end of the day you pretty much have no choice). Some staff had relaxed sessions, some had extremely loud and intense sessions (that I seriously question the usefulness of).
I remember one staff member imparticularly whose raps I could not stand to be in since he insisted on holding each session yelling at the top of his lungs and was not satisfied untill half the room was yelling at the floor. Sometimes you just did it so you didn't have to listen to the nonsense that spewed out of his mouth.
Rap lugs were always amusing, and for the most part not funny.
The above poster is right, there definatly were weird feelings associated with going into raps like you were about to witnes something bad. A lot of kids feared them, I of course grew up being yelled at so it was nothing new to me. The most amusing aspects were definatly the older student bullying that occured. This was even more so present in RMA (the old RMA), but I think that was the result of the expectation of the unstable staff that facilitated those sessions. In the end, I think the affect the rap had on a kid depended on how much he feared his indictors.
CHINSK
(i forgot my password)
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On 2005-02-17 12:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"A lot of it I noticed had to do with the staff that ran them. The tone of the rap was definatly set by the facilitator. I know I for sure had a preference when it came to whose rap I wanted to be in, plenty of staff whose raps I avoided at all cost (but unfortunatly at the end of the day you pretty much have no choice). Some staff had relaxed sessions, some had extremely loud and intense sessions (that I seriously question the usefulness of).
I remember one staff member imparticularly whose raps I could not stand to be in since he insisted on holding each session yelling at the top of his lungs and was not satisfied untill half the room was yelling at the floor. Sometimes you just did it so you didn't have to listen to the nonsense that spewed out of his mouth.
Rap lugs were always amusing, and for the most part not funny.
The above poster is right, there definatly were weird feelings associated with going into raps like you were about to witnes something bad. A lot of kids feared them, I of course grew up being yelled at so it was nothing new to me. The most amusing aspects were definatly the older student bullying that occured. This was even more so present in RMA (the old RMA), but I think that was the result of the expectation of the unstable staff that facilitated those sessions. In the end, I think the affect the rap had on a kid depended on how much he feared his indictors.
CHINSK
(i forgot my password)
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While I concurr that going into a rap with a staff that you feared or that you knew was not satisfied util as you described, half or more of the students had "done work", going into a rap with a staff you liked only to get blownaway by that staff because THEY were advised that they needed to do that sucked too. Back to the uncertainty again, I guess. How older students did their thing is a testament to the intricacies of the delicate matter of keeping your skin and sanity there. If you didn't do work you were lying about something. If you did too much you were lying about something. Being full of shit, and not knowing what was real at the same time WAS nirvana there. I've been thinking for a long time that the platitudes of what a "succesful" RMA student were and one that was "stuggling" are in themselves confusing. And THAT was encouraged. "You are right where you need to be". Remember that? And being rewarded out of the blue just when you thought that everyone just KNEW you were "full of shit". The gummut was run there on confusing the prey. I was sure I was going to get nailed in a rap sometimes just to have "sunshine blown up my ass" about how I was maturing and really coming to my own just then. Man...it was so confusing, and it still is. Am I doing well, or am I struggling? Too much introspection, way too fast and too early.
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I don't know if there are successful students. Many of the ones I was in with committed suicide since.
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:question: That is insane? John was the only one kid who killed himself at RMA. I don't believe it was because of a rap.
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they pull it together coz they shut down....how dumb r u???i never cried in raps unless they brought up one of my most horrible insecurities... they loved to see us cry...every time they would bring up the fact that i threw up and that i felt like i needed to be skinny to get guys..and THEN go on the fact that i was a slut...they seemed to enjoy when i cried...they would smile when i did and then theyd move on to someone else,...so shut up about YOUR whineyness about ours ...because we have a right to whine...i went there from 2002 to 2004... i will always remember the days they annihalated me for going to the hospital... they yelled at me for my problems and loved it when i cried... they never helped me grow strong...
just more weak with a hardened face
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Haha, i remember RAPS fondly. I had quite a few indictments over my 2 years at BCA, several due to the fact that I would fall asleep during the RAP sessions. Man, talk about a way to piss the staff off.
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i had a major problem with narcolepsy in raps, they would make me do work assignments allllll day for that shit
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Thank you for this description - but raps aren't that bad. Everything done in them is healing. I can't believe how you people see the world. Our staff indightments can only help you. I have seen a lot of mentally ill people pull it all together in raps and prophets. Raps used to be hard. Now they are whimpy and you are all winers.
:twofinger: what an asshole and kool-aid drinker you are, pussy.
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:question: That is insane? John was the only one kid who killed himself at RMA. I don't believe it was because of a rap.
I was at cedu-rs from Jan. 1991 to Jul. 1992. I know that at least (2) people whom
I knew there - Beau Riddle & Sasheem Dobson, committed suicide not long after they
had "GRADUATED" from cedu. If my memory serves correctly - Beau & Sasheem were
also from the same "peer-group". They both finished cedu's program: 2-1/2 yrs. of
raps, profeets, work shops, and the rest of cedu's abusive '"emotional growth"
money-scamming bullshit!
I have some open questions for all of you pro-cedu sheeple who still "drink the kool-aid":
If Cedu really worked (and the rest of us "just didn't get it"), then why did (2) kids kill themselves after spending 2-1/2 yrs. being "helped" by the so-called "experts" at
cedu & "graduating" from the program"? Wasn't the whole point of the cedu experience
to give these kids the "necessary tools" they'd need to overcome their problems and live successful lives? Weren't low self-esteem & suicidal behavior (along with poor academic performance, learning disorders, drug addiction, defiance of authority, eating disorders, domestic violence, etcera...) exactly the sort of problems that cedu's "marketeers" told parents that 2-1/2" yrs in the program would "fix"? Why didn't it "fix" Beau Riddle & Sasheem Dobson, who both "graduated" together from the same "peer group" no less?
I mean, it's not like Cedu didn't have enough time with them - they had 2-1/2 years!
"EMOTIONAL GROWTH THERAPY" IS A BIG FRAUD!!! - That's my answer, what yours?
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Cedu was nothing more then a scam. No education, no therapy from qualified therapists, etc. The blood of those two kids are on Cedu's hands. God rest their souls, by the way. It makes my heart break to think of what they went through.
There is indeed an answer, and I happen to have it. SCAM. There are NO other answers.
We have to move forward, us survivors. And, we have to live our lives in memory of Beau Riddle & Sasheem Dobson. We made it through, they didn't.
My love to my fellow survivors.
To those that still value their "Cedu experience," really you fucks are clueless. And, I personally don't give two shits about the friends you made, the wonderful times hiking, or anything else.
I'm sick to fucking death of you asswipes from classmates.com that have little disgusting reunions, and that keep in touch with each other. PUKE. Why the hell don't you dig up Carmen Earle and John Padgett's graves, place their rotting corpses in a chair, and have a rap session for old time's sake?!
Better yet, why kool-aid drinkers hold hands, and sing old profeet songs, and wipe each other's tears away. ::puke::
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Cedu was nothing more then a scam. No education, no therapy from qualified therapists, etc. The blood of those two kids are on Cedu's hands. God rest their souls, by the way. It makes my heart break to think of what they went through.
There is indeed an answer, and I happen to have it. SCAM. There are NO other answers.
We have to move forward, us survivors. And, we have to live our lives in memory of Beau Riddle & Sasheem Dobson. We made it through, they didn't.
My love to my fellow survivors.
To those that still value their "Cedu experience," really you fucks are clueless. And, I personally don't give two shits about the friends you made, the wonderful times hiking, or anything else.
I'm sick to fucking death of you asswipes from classmates.com that have little disgusting reunions, and that keep in touch with each other. PUKE. Why the hell don't you dig up Carmen Earle and John Padgett's graves, place their rotting corpses in a chair, and have a rap session for old time's sake?!
Better yet, why kool-aid drinkers hold hands, and sing old profeet songs, and wipe each other's tears away. ::puke::
Great Post! I just wanted to add that after the kool-aid drinkers are done crying
& singing profeet songs, they'll finish the night by smooshing and jerking-off
together in one big "disclosure circle". :sue:
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i had a major problem with narcolepsy in raps, they would make me do work assignments allllll day for that shit
Me too. And propheets.. workshops, you name it. Normally the drowsies would always hit me during the rap portion.
I always marveled at how a lot of us had to fight to stay awake while people were screaming at each other, running their anger, etc.... even if it were simply a middle of the afternoon rap, as opposed to in the middle of the night in a propheet. I'd doze right off as if I were reading a cheap novel.
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Raps were held 3 times a week for us on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. They lasted three hours. During the week you could put in a "Rap Request" to try and get a specific student or staff member in to your rap ahead of time.
On the day of the rap, the staff would be in the office going through all of the requests, along with their own, and putting together all the raps that would take place that day. Usually four to six, each with 15-20 students and 1 to 3 staff facilitators.
Raps took place after lunch so everyone was hanging out around the "pit", a seating area in the living room where most announcements would take place. The staff would walk in, many of them smiling, knowing who was going to be getting destroyed shortly in his or her raps, and then they would announce who was in what rap and what room to go to. There was often quite a bit of humiliation involved in this process, as someone above noted, where people would get their names called and a staff would make a snide comment about them and students were expected to giggle, laugh or whatever to look good and stroke the ego of the staff.
Once in the raps, you tried to get a good seat, which for me tended to be next to the staff chair. Most of the "power" staff generally took a seat in a particular spot each time, and since you couldn't yell at someone next to you, sitting next to a staff, or actually two seats over, was a good spot. And since the students generally put the chairs in to a circle to set the place up, if you were there early you could grab a more comfortable chair.
Once the staff were there and everyone was seated, you had to listen to some psycho-babble speech from the staff before things begun. Then you'd hear the magic words "Let's have a rap!" and all hell would break loose. Anywhere from three to fifteen people screaming to get the floor, usually the loudest and most persistent got to go first. They would mostly be upset at a fellow student for some minor thing they had done like take an 11 minute shower instead of 10, hogging the washer and dryer, not "pulling their weight" or something equally trivial. On rare occasions you might hear someone get "indicted" as the term was, for something serious like planning to run away, admitting to taking drugs on a home visit (which meant an older student because you didn't go home till after a year, so these people had managed a year or more in the program and yet took drugs the moment they had a chance, suggesting the program didn't really work.) There could also be "breaking bans", which meant you spoke to someone you had been banned from communicating with, banning itself being a violation of our civil rights and right to freedom of speech. But mostly the indictments were for the most trivial matters.
Then other people would join in. In order to talk to someone, you had to be somewhat across the room from them so as not to be physically intimidating as usually people who were talking tended to be on the edge of their seat, fingers pointed, screaming at the top of their lungs, which is definitely threatening. So you would point at someone across the room, make eye contact, letting them know you wanted to switch seats with them, and if they had nothing more to say, or weren't planning on saying anything to the person being talked to, they would get up and switch seats. So if you are the person being yelled at, as you watch, two, three, seven, ten, fifteen people all scrambling to move across the room from you, this can generate quite a bit of fear and anxiety because you know every single one of them has something to say. Not necessarily anything true, or anything relevant, as often people who keep the heat on you rather than let it end and potentially mean someone else gets yelled at. There was a lot of fake indictments to keep the rap moving but against others, so as to avoid getting yelled at yourself.
I remember one rap where I could tell a student, whom I barely knew kept switching with me. Anytime I would switch seats, he would be quick to jump up and change. Or if he couldn't, he would wait so he could get in to position to be able to indict me when the current person being talked to was finished. So I made shit up to say to the person to keep things going, saying something everyone could comment on so more people would want to join in and go "Yeah, me too!" and in doing this I managed to get him to change places one too many times and the staff member caught him and said sit down! Commenting that he had switched about six times during the indictment on the other student but had not actually said a word. And this kind of killed the current indictment so suddenly another student got yelled at and since I was sitting right next to the guy, he couldn't say a word. So I had basically manipulated the rap for over an hour to prevent myself from being yelled at, and I know everyone else did similar things. It wasn't always hard to know if you were about to be yelled at. Especially if during the first seconds of the rap, one of those fifteen people trying to get the floor were yelling your name, but lost out. Waiting and knowing you are going to be screamed at is an intimidating and fearful way to spend three hours.
One aspect of raps rarely mentioned is how students at the school were often meant to feel equally guilty about events in their life compared to others who might have had less crap or more crap go on in theirs. An example would be going to death row in prison for jay walking, whereas someone else went there for murder. If you had little about your life that was horrible, staff would try and create something. I know for me, my parents divorce was a rather simple affair, it wasn't a battle, there was no fighting, my father moved close by and he remained a part of our lives. The divorce had nothing to do with me. But the staff tried to make me feel horrible about it, suggesting my father divorced my mother and I was partly to blame at age 7. It was bogus, but this is what they did. You had to feel guilty, horrible, deep penetrating anguish all the time, and God help you if you had trouble crying because generally they don't stop until you cry. I also was meant to feel bad for my being adopted too. All of this to make me feel as bad as people who had raped others, been raped by others, kids who had been molested by family members, kids who had OD'd on drugs, or had severe alcoholism and so on. I got sent to RMA because I missed some homework assignments but was made to continuously feel bad about myself on the same level as others who had just terrible lives. And Raps were the main place where this took place.
So to sum up, Raps for the most part had no positive sides. In some ways it was better than just punching the daylights out of someone for trivial crap, but there was no other outlet allowed. Walking up to someone and just saying, "Hey dude, we're all waiting here, next time could you try and keep your shower down to ten minutes?" didn't happen. Said in a calm voice, most would have just said yes. But it paid off to say it in a rap instead, and at the top of your lungs. You "looked good" in front of staff if you indicted people in raps, so there was a reward of sorts for doing this even when it was for trivial stuff you should have tried to solve out of a rap. Raps were about generating deep emotion and anger in the students and then leaving it undirected. Leaving it undirected might not have been intentional, but it was the usual outcome as there was really no actual therapy, just screaming and yelling. Staff often used bottled terms that had been so over-used they had no real impact. The terms were often vague, so students were left to guess what was said and what it all meant. At the end of a rap, people either pretended to be elated, having really dug deep and experienced something profound, or they had blank stares, were exhausted and had no clue what to do next except stagger down to dorms for dorm time glad they had a day off before doing another rap.
Do they work? No. They claim they helped save thousand of druggies over the years. But I could walk up to a druggie every day of their life and ask in a calm and serious voice, "You ready to do something else with your life, or are drugs working for you still?" Unless the druggie really wants to stop and do something else, they won't. Yelling and screaming aren't going to work. And if I also say, "And if you do decide to change, I am here for you," I think this is far more positive and would have a better chance of getting through to the person. Showing them that not everyone has given up on them. But it has to be said with truth and some amount of care and love so the druggie can know that is there. That they might not have to do it alone. But ultimately, unless they want to change and quit, nothing will happen.
Using raps on teens who have no power to walk out or defend themselves, who might not have actually done anything horrible... it is useless. Raps were rarely used to deal with the issues related to why the student was sent there by their parents. It was usually just anger management for trivial shit that happens when 120 people live in close quarters, unable to leave in an environment that is foreign, far from home, scary and full of fear. Not once while I was there did anyone ever ask me about missed homework assignments. But they did spend a lot of months trying to determine if I had ever used drugs or had sex, because that shit they loved to talk about. Why? Because all of the staff had done it. And not in a good way. Staff had been known to have raped people before becoming staff. Of having been prostitutes. Of having serious alcohol and drug abuse problems. And they figured since they had been weak once, everyone else must be lying because they must have done it too. And this is where making all of the students feel equally horrible about themselves winds up being the whole purpose of raps.
Hope this description helped.
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Thank you for this description - but raps aren't that bad. Everything done in them is healing. I can't believe how you people see the world. Our staff indightments can only help you. I have seen a lot of mentally ill people pull it all together in raps and prophets. Raps used to be hard. Now they are whimpy and you are all winers.[/qu
this is obviously written by an adult who helped "facilitate" the screaming attacks, not by a 14 year old kid being the recipient of a room full of people yelling hateful, generally unhelpful stuff at them for hours. Sometimes people doing the "railing" were half out of their seat, screaming/swearing/pointing/spitting/crying/looking like they wanted to kill you. Many of us sent to these schools had major self-esteem issues already. One of the most sickening things about this was that students who fell right in line with the program often "proved" they were "fixed" by screaming at you with full force in a rap. I heard so much stuff screamed at me that was absolute bullshit...said by someone who didn't know me at all. Many times, it felt that person was simply finding a target in order to get the rewards. This makes the "therapy" a complete game...run like a popularity contest. I was at Cascade, where all the ex-CEDU people decided to start over in 90-92, back when it was still at least fairly brutal.
This remark really insulted me. "mentally ill people put it all together in raps" ??? What does that even mean? It's really easy to play into the psycho-game that was these schools, really easy to tell them what they want to hear, scream at who's being screamed at, etc. People with mental or emotional illness may have been able to cry like they were supposed to and scream at the floor to their mom that left them or whatever....but you better believe this didn't necessarily mean the raps had "fixed" them.
And what about the after effects of all this "therapy?" I know I personally got into crack after graduating, which I'd NEVER done anything more than LSD before Cascade. It's not just that we're whiners, complaining that we got yelled at a couple times. The popularity aspect of following the program always made me sick. It wasn't about who's feeling better, it was about how much you kudos you could get from the counselors. Disgusting, and very detrimental to a developing teenage mind. Not to mention the HOURS a week we had to do this (about 10-12 , not including the freako all weekend "workshops") . As a highly empathetic person, it was really painful to see someone else get heavily railed, or cry their eyes and snot out over some of the worst things I'd ever heard. This is why I felt shell-shocked my senior year after I'd finally been released from Cascade. After everything I'd emotionally suffered from being there, I had no clue how I fit into "the real world" anymore. Twenty years later, I still feel permanently damaged from that shit. :beat:
Oh, and use the spellcheck, dude.
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Thank you for this description - but raps aren't that bad. Everything done in them is healing. I can't believe how you people see the world. Our staff indightments can only help you. I have seen a lot of mentally ill people pull it all together in raps and prophets. Raps used to be hard. Now they are whimpy and you are all winers.[/qu
this is obviously written by an adult who helped "facilitate" the screaming attacks, not by a 14 year old kid being the recipient of a room full of people yelling hateful, generally unhelpful stuff at them for hours. Sometimes people doing the "railing" were half out of their seat, screaming/swearing/pointing/spitting/crying/looking like they wanted to kill you. Many of us sent to these schools had major self-esteem issues already. One of the most sickening things about this was that students who fell right in line with the program often "proved" they were "fixed" by screaming at you with full force in a rap. I heard so much stuff screamed at me that was absolute bullshit...said by someone who didn't know me at all. Many times, it felt that person was simply finding a target in order to get the rewards. This makes the "therapy" a complete game...run like a popularity contest. I was at Cascade, where all the ex-CEDU people decided to start over in 90-92, back when it was still at least fairly brutal.
This remark really insulted me. "mentally ill people put it all together in raps" ??? What does that even mean? It's really easy to play into the psycho-game that was these schools, really easy to tell them what they want to hear, scream at who's being screamed at, etc. People with mental or emotional illness may have been able to cry like they were supposed to and scream at the floor to their mom that left them or whatever....but you better believe this didn't necessarily mean the raps had "fixed" them.
And what about the after effects of all this "therapy?" I know I personally got into crack after graduating, which I'd NEVER done anything more than LSD before Cascade. It's not just that we're whiners, complaining that we got yelled at a couple times. The popularity aspect of following the program always made me sick. It wasn't about who's feeling better, it was about how much you kudos you could get from the counselors. Disgusting, and very detrimental to a developing teenage mind. Not to mention the HOURS a week we had to do this (about 10-12 , not including the freako all weekend "workshops") . As a highly empathetic person, it was really painful to see someone else get heavily railed, or cry their eyes and snot out over some of the worst things I'd ever heard. This is why I felt shell-shocked my senior year after I'd finally been released from Cascade. After everything I'd emotionally suffered from being there, I had no clue how I fit into "the real world" anymore. Twenty years later, I still feel permanently damaged from that shit. :beat:
Oh, and use the spellcheck, dude.
speaking of spell checks-----indightments--whimpy--winers--freako--and spellcheck all wrong lol, Just saying dude, lol :roflmao:
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Great Post! I just wanted wanted to add that after the kool-aid drinkers are done crying
& singing profeet songs, they'll finish the night by smooshing and jerking-off together in
one big "disclosure circle". :sue:[/quote]
Serbia, my diet pepsi just flew through my nose when I read your post! Love it!!!
You rock! :notworthy:
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Hey, does anyone ever find themselves in situations where there aggressive tone of voice in a conversation really escalates tension and animosity? Sometimes I think I got so used to verbal warfare that it became an ingrained habit. Responding in loud forceful and foul language is a pattern of communication that seems to just "kick-in" sometimes, kind of like Turrette's Syndrome or something and it seems to get worse the older I get and more frequent as my life becomes more difficult.
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Hey, does anyone ever find themselves in situations where there aggressive tone of voice in a conversation really escalates tension and animosity? Sometimes I think I got so used to verbal warfare that it became an ingrained habit. Responding in loud forceful and foul language is a pattern of communication that seems to just "kick-in" sometimes, kind of like Turrette's Syndrome or something and it seems to get worse the older I get and more frequent as my life becomes more difficult.
My ex can probably testify to that. (I wasn't very nice to him.)
Did CEDU cause it? Probably at least some of it. I normally find when I get hostile AND sanctimonious, that's what I consider to be donning my "rap hat".
My free floating hostility, though... Ive had that forever.