Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: spots on January 14, 2005, 04:29:00 PM
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There's a lot of valid talk about alternatives for mentally ill teens, other than The Program. There is talk about some sort of long-term "time out" for delinquent teens to "get over" their tantrums. There is talk about options for a destructive (and self-destructive) young person until the kid can manage to live in regular society. But the answer to all these conditions is, in the opinion of bad-A$$ Program groupies...The Program!
There are difficlult teenagers, always have been, always will be. All except about 2000 of the 180 million people in the United States seem to be able to muddle through and achieve some sort of adult-hood without The Program.
We can talk about real scary problem behaviors, but you must remember, The Program takes *anybody*...with money! It isn't about how strong kids like Perri move on, or about Chi's daughter who has some mysterious anti-social behavior. It's about the huge percentage of Just Kids, who either misjudge how much they can push their parents' envelope as they experiment and mature, or how much the parents fail at dealing with what zillions of other parents deal with. The Program provides private prisons to remove kids from family and society, denying American citizens (juveniles) of ordinary civil rights. This situation should not be allowed. The Program(s) should not exist as an alternative for adults to place their difficult children in.
My grandaughter was being a pretty normal jerk 14yo before she was sent to WWASPS. She had been suddenly thrust into a "blended" family (oxymoron, in this case) and was not prepared to deal with a new adult with awesome powers over her future. She was sent to a behavior modification facility for nearly a year. She didn't need her behavior modified. She needed her environment modified.
Program lock-down facilities imprison **anyone**, without a hearing, for an indefinite sentence, without any advocate or ombudsman to The Outside. This is immoral, and against the principles that American was founded upon. Each facility should be shut down, but the greater good will come when the "possibility" of such a service is made illegal.
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Hey, I've got a "whatif."
Whatif instead of spending all this time bashing Program schools (which is a total waist of energy) why don't you create your own solution? Cuz as far as I can tell, the need for these things isn't going to go away.
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hey anon,
if 'bashing programs' is a 'waist' of time, are you making good use of your time bashing advocates?
just seems a bit incongruent to me.
'create your own solution'? interpret please.
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On 2005-01-14 13:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey, I've got a "whatif."
Whatif instead of spending all this time bashing Program schools (which is a total waist of energy) why don't you create your own solution? Cuz as far as I can tell, the need for these things isn't going to go away.
"
AMEN!!! Love people who BASH whats there, but have NOTHING to offer as a solution!
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Then you're only seeing what you want to see. There have been plenty of suggestions as to what the alternatives are. If you're too lazy to find it, or too narrowminded to actually SEE it, it's not my problem.
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"AMEN!!! Love people who BASH whats there, but have NOTHING to offer as a solution!"
Actually, we have.
Deborah has spoken of "sunshine" and reform/regulation, oversight, and operating less secretly, and showing what actually goes on in there.
If that happened there would be a shakedown of the bad ones, and the good ones woudl simply demonstrate they do what they are supposed to be doing.
First management had plans and then strategic plans. Now we have vision, and we're only one small step from hallucination.
-- Ansley Throckmorton upon assuming the presidency of Bangor Theological Seminary in Bangor, Main per Information World 8-4-`97
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On 2005-01-14 13:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey, I've got a "whatif."
Whatif instead of spending all this time bashing Program schools (which is a total waist of energy) why don't you create your own solution? Cuz as far as I can tell, the need for these things isn't going to go away.
"
By the time my oldest was a teenager, I had long since realized that there is no magical solution available from any used god salesman or drug warrior. And I started giving your question a whole lot more serious thought than I ever did when she was young and cute and innocent and compliant. The first thing I realized was that I had slacked! I should have been giving this a lot more thought all along.
I have realized a few things since, too. At some point, I noticed that the more I tried to force her to make what I knew to be the right choices the less I heard from her. Eventually, she didn't have time for me at all.
Sometime later I realized that, pretty consistently, she made very sensible choices in any area of her life that I hadn't had such strong opinions about and consistently bad choices in those areas that I had tried most to control.
Fashion sense? To the max! No care whatever what anybody thought if she liked it. Two days later all her friends are wearing it. I have not a care at all about fashion, so long as it's not too suggestive.
And whenever she made a mistake that I didn't care too overly much about, she'd learn from it and not make the same mistake again. If, otoh, I made a big deal about it and tried to find ways to make her do the right thing, that kid just had to put her hand in the fire and find out for herself. So I quit giving her advice she didn't ask for. Lo and behold! I started hearing from her more! After awhile it got to be a regular thing and, once in awhile, she'd actually ask my opinion. Eventually, she came back home, too.
A lot has happened since. So far I've concluded this: one of the most important and effective ways to deal w/ a troubling teen is to steal a page from the older geneerations. We have to get over the Victorian fiction that children are children until some magical day when they suddently become adults and leave the house to go on to successful adulthood. We have to reclaim or re-invent an honorable, respected and useful place in our society and our families for teenagers and young adults. I mean a realistic one that takes into account adventure, bravado, grandiosity and all the rest of the imutible nature of youth.
But if your kid is already a teenager and you haven't given it this much thought till now, then you've noticed (as I did) that there are no do-overs. Try and learn something from it for the sake of any younger kids, or course. But the only think I know of that works for a teenaged kid who's making huge mistakes is to give up on trying to control them and get used to the fact that you haven't got any control.
Kids grow up and, ready or not, they get all autonomous and independent and unwilling to let anyone tell them what to do. If they happen to be doing what we want them to, we call that leadership and strength. If they happen do be doing what we don't want them to, we call that rebellion and oposition and defiance and pathology and all kinds of other nasty names.
Haven't you noticed that adults respond to you better when you're not calling them nasty names and trying to force them to do something? I know it sounds crazy to some, but when a kid starts thinking like they're adults then you have to start treating them like adults. If you know they're not ready and you care about them and you want them to succeed, you have to let them decide when they want help or advice and don't use it to try and prove you're right about everything else.
You have to grow up, in other words, and learn to respect them. That seems to be what keeps families together. Look around at businesses that have been in the same family for a couple of generations. (if you can't think of a single one within easy driving distance, get youself and your kids the hell out of Stepford!) That's what we all want, right? Prosperous families that stay together, raise cousins together, offer great oportunities to the grandkids? Don't we all want a full table at the next big family holiday? I do. I want to grow old knowing what my grandchildren did last weekend.
Anyone who can't wrap your mind around that, just consider that one day you'll be old and feeble and maybe a little forgetful and these are the people who will most likely have power of attorney. That's a little ham fisted, I know. Crude, but effective.
Men seldom, or rather never for a length of time, and deliberately, rebel against anything that does not deserve rebelling against.
--Thomas Carlyle
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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Whatif instead of spending all this time bashing Program schools (which is a total waist [sic] of energy) why don't you create your own solution? Cuz as far as I can tell, the need for these things isn't going to go away.
To my absolute delight, this thread is *filled* with alternatives/solutions/answers. If you can't see that, you're only looking as far as the facilitator (which means, in Latin, "one who is making it easy") at the seminar told you to look.
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Spots, you began this thread with one of my major complaints against WWASP - they will enroll any kid with any problem and say they are the perfect program for that kid.
This is just not possible.
This is proof enough for me that they are operating in an unethical and immoral manner.
I think the solution to the problems we have, are going to varry from family to family. Obviously, a lot of these kids really are not problem or troubled teens by any rational definition. There needs to be safe guards that protect these kids from arbitrary and spiteful types of placement.
Lots of these kids do have serious problems of one sort or another - and often times they have been highly resistant to less extreme attempts to intervene and help. I personally can not advocate a hands off approach in such cases. I think in some cases, something must be done. But I do feel the private teen help industry, as it exist today, needs to be scrapped. It not only is ineffective, but is more often than not, harmful. The lack of oversight and accountability is appalling.
Exactly how to make the needed changes is a bit beyond me - but thankfully there are those involved who are more knowledgeable than I in this area.
All this being said - I have come to agree with Ginger for the most part. I agree that in most cases, it is probably best to let nature take its corse. Let the kid suffer the natural consequences of their actions and wait for them to grow up.
This is assuming there are no mental health issues. That is a different situation all together. The natural consequences of a mental patient's behavior may be to sever to just let happen. And, also, all to often, they don't learn anything from them anyway.
In this case, the answer lies largely in society taking mental health care more seriously. Making good care available with parity of care laws, and weeding out the quacks so common in the field.
And, I do think we need early child hood intervention; but not of the sort that Bush has advocated. I think we simply need a society that values a mom's place in the home raising her children; and that makes such a choice possible for the average mom. Fathers need to be valued and respected and made to feel they have a vital role in the welfare of the family and society, because they do. I am not saying we should return to the fifties - but we have gone to far in devaluing the traditional roles of moms and dads in the healthy functioning of the family - and its healthy families that make for healthy kids - and healthy societies. I have come to believe that babies in day care is causing a lot of problems in children and teens. Problems that once were rare are now at epidemic levels. There has to be a reason. The one big change we can look to in how this generation was raised, is the common use of day care for infants and young children. That, and diet. We need to rebel against Mac's and Pepsi and start feeding out kids food again, and we need to stop wearhousing our babies.
I think if we could do that - we'd soon see the demand for these teen wearhouses evaporate.
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What I see with teenagers at the dojo (and the dojo is a *huge* stabilizing force for our teen students), is that teenagers catch their parents doing something stupid or being wrong about something. They follow their parents' advice and have a worse outcome on *something* than if they had followed their own better judgement on that one thing.
Then they become *either* absolutely convinced that their own judgement is better than their parents' on *everything* or that they would rather screw up based on their own better judgement than ignore their better judgement and follow their parents' and end up "in the shit" when it turns out they were right and their parents were wrong.
When you think about it, it makes sense.
As kids grow into adults, it's inevitable that sometime when a parent makes a mistake in judgement, the adolescent kid will have made the *right* choice---but have listened to the parent out of habit.
What I do with my stubborn, frequently "oppositional" nine year old is what Ginger suggests---first off when she's in a contrary mood, I give her fewer things to be contrary to---I back off the advice a bit. The next thing I do is if she's about to do something potentially damaging but not catastrophic, I'll just say, "I don't think it's a good idea. If you want, I'll tell you why." And then I shut up. Let curiosity make her ask me. If she does ask, I *try* to keep it brief (something I'm lousy at, as you all know! LOL).
If the danger is imminent and severe, I'll tell her---such as, "Watch out for the truck!" or "Oh my god don't horse around at the top of the stairs, I'm scared to death you'll fall and break your neck and be dead or, worse, paralyzed for life!"
Other than that, I give her as little as possible to oppose. "A great deal of freedom within limits." I try to arrange the situation so she has to use her own judgement as much as possible to solve problems when she's like that. I do less for her and leave her to solve more daily living problems for herself. Like fixing herself what she wants to eat, washing her own clothes, etc.
Her: "Can you drive me to the mall?"
Me: "Maybe. I've got to get X, Y, and Z done before I can go. If you can help me with any of it, we could leave quicker."
Her: "Uh! Mooooom!"
Me: "You don't *have* to. It's just what I've got to get done before we can leave. If you have something else you want or need to do, go right ahead. I'll call you when I'm done."
Her: "Okay, I'll help." (rolls eyes, annoyed)
Me: "Okay. Thanks. Which one do you want to do?"
Her: "Y. No, Z."
Me: "Okay. Thanks a lot. I *really* appreciate the help."
OR---she wanders off and doesn't do any of it, but we really don't go to the mall until I'm done with what I need to do.
But I put as many of the ordinary daily judgements and problems of running her life back on her as possible when she gets like that. I don't load her down with artificial ones---I just give her more space *spaecifically* in using her better judgement to cope with daily life by subtly withdrawing some of the things I ordinarily might do for her.
If she *asks* me to do something for her, I tell her something I need to do as what I was going to do instead (which usually is what I really was going to do) and ask if she can help me out with that while I do her favor----and if she doesn't want to help, with no "nyah nyah" factor in my voice, I let her do whatever it was for herself while I go do my task that I needed to do anyway.
No chance for opposition---I make offers, not orders, when she wants some help from me---and if she chooses not to trade tasks, she gets to do whatever she wanted help with for herself with no hard feelings.
I'm sure the exact details will vary as she gets older, but *I* was a very stubborn kid---what they now call oppositional. I'm still a very stubborn adult.
I remember an episode of "The Waltons" where one of the kids was in a race riding a mule when the others were on horses, and Grandpa Walton said, "A mule's gonna want to do things the hard way" and mapped out a route for the kid that let the mule do it the hard way.
That metaphor kind of applies. You let the kid (or adult) do things the hard way and, like flowing water that finds the smallest opening through and wears down great mountains, but never really gives you anything to oppose, you just roll with the situation and *as far as possible* don't give the kid anything to oppose.
I use mental and emotional Aikido as a specialized branch of Mom Fu. :smile:
Then again, I'm absolutely implacable about winning the battles I *have* to win. Like, "You have to do a day's worth of school today. You can split it among two subjects. Which two do you want. You won't pick? Okay. I'll pick." (Then she usually defaults to, "Okay, okay" and picks two.) Or, I have to win the battle on her taking her meds---which she *rarely* makes a battle, but *never* wins if she makes it one.
I guess that's the big thing. With an oppositional kid, you pick your battles *very* carefully and absolutely insist on winning those few you pick.
The thing with my stubborn kid, and the thing with the teens down at the dojo, is that if you give them that "great freedom within limits" thing and you put more of solving their day to day life problems back on them, they get so caught up in figuring out how to deal with this or that life problem they're trying to solve (almost like a puzzle), that they kind of forget about you and kindof forget to be pissed at you.
You empathize a lot while sitting back and letting them figure it out.
A lot of times when a kid gets oppositional, how they're feeling is like a cook in the kitchen who has someone underfoot and perpetually in the way when she's trying to make dinner. And the parent is the underfoot, in the way, extra fingers in the pot nuisance.
Give 'em space on all the small daily things, and they get so caught up in the creation they're baking that they forget to be mad.
Instead of "I told you so" with problems, an empathetic, "Oooh. That sucks. What are you going to do about it?" turns their attention right back on their problem and *away* from the parent. And sometimes when they realize they don't know what the hell they're going to do, at that moment, they ask for advice---and get it. And if they don't want to actually take the advice, you just shrug and say, "Sorry, that's just what I'd do. What are your other choices?"
And when the kid is no longer feeling like they're trying to work out their problems with too many fingers in the pot while tripping over you every which way they turn, they calm down and kindof like you.
I'm not talking about abdicating the role of parent and trying to be their best buddy. I'm saying that sometimes a "water" strategy works better than a "stone" or "fire" one.
Unless the situation is a battle you just *have* to win, there's the gentlest, lightest touch of guidance, with plenty of empathy and support. And if there are signs that the empathy is becoming irritating, you tell them you'll be there if they decide they need you and let 'em alone.
Most of the time when I see other parents who are at loggerheads with an oppositional child, it's because the parents have too heavy a hand and are picking unnecessary and senseless battles instead of just the ones they have to win.
If you'll forgive me, chi3, if you're reading this---one of those is your daughter hanging out with the gay crowd. What's the hazard? It's not like they're going to screw her and give her AIDS. I can see the concern if they're all drugged up, and maybe you don't approve of their sexual behaviors---but unless your daughter has a girlfriend, *I* don't see an active, immediate hazard. (And it may be that there's one I don't know about, or that that's just a minor annoyance to you you mentioned for example and not a major battle.) I just pick that as something that I *wouldn't* pick as a battle.
On the goth thing---my "rules" would be goth clothes are okay as long as they don't break the school dress code. Temporary tattoos are okay. Jewelry that imitates weird piercings but isn't is okay. Weird music is okay. NO drugs. A liberal but firm curfew. You carry the prepaid cell phone everywhere, all the time. I *will* test you for drugs, regularly. Damn straight I'll search your room. Black lipstick? Black nail polish? Otay..... Then I'd use grounding her from some of it for *short* periods as the "lever" to enforce curfew, cell phone, and no drugs. Sure, she can borrow lipstick and stuff from her friends, and she can change clothes at a friend's house, or listen to music there---but if she can *usually* do it an only loses it for short times for rule breaches *immediately* after breaking the rules it's embarrassing--and no kid wants to look like a dork in front of her friends.
Maybe it wouldn't work, maybe it doesn't match your values---but that's what *my* strategy with *my* kid would be. My kid's a clothes horse. Taking away favored fashions for a few days at a time would be a *major* lever with her.
My kid fibs. The best advice I've found for dealing with that, that my husband and I are now implementing, is to never give her an opportunity to fib---check *everything*. Not asking, "Did you finish your homework?" but saying, "Okay, show me your homework." Never asking a question where there's a chance or temptation to lie. Modeling honesty and keeping your word---especially by doing what you say you'll do--no "just a minute" if it's going to be hours (*I* need to work on that).
I googled on "teaching honesty"---there are some good tips that would work even with a teenager.
Anyway, that's how I deal with a stubborn kid that sometimes succumbs to the temptation to fib.
TimocleaUnder the benign influence of our republican institutions, and the maintenance of peace with all nations whilst so many of them were engaged in bloody and wasteful wars, the fruits of a just policy were enjoyed in an unrivaled growth of our faculties and resources.
James Madison
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Timoclea - funny you mention that. What you just described is basically one of my biggest gripes with "dojos"
Well, speicifically, Mcdojos. Stop by http://www.bullshido.net (http://www.bullshido.net) and see what our probs are.
Basically, they go past the beneficial parts of self esteem and start feeding them karate kid bullshit about how they're so badass but couldnt even fight off some drunkard. They also start getting fed mystical bullshit in some places.
It ranges from annoying to outright ridiculous. Brainwashing and the kind of bullshit we hate in programs can exist in some of the kind of wacky schools. Go ask about aikido and the "moons of jupiter". You'll get a laugh outta that one!
My primary gripe is convincing them they're billy badass, charging insane belt testing fees, and they spar so little (if at all) they cant even take a punch. If you dont actually fight, youre not gonna get good at it, and if youve been told otherwise, come meet me on a mat. Or better yet meet a good isntructor of a Mixed Martial Arts school and spar them.
If anyone was wondering: I'm partial to Muay Thai and Brazilian Juujutsu, but a more easy to find alternative to each would be boxing and good ole wrestling. Judo works too!
[Religion is] the daughter of hope and fear, explaining to ignorance the nature of the unknowable.
--Ambrose Bierce
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Niles, sometimes you're too quick to jump on something.
It sounds like you're drawing conclusions about our dojo when you really know nothing about it.
The fees, belt testing and otherwise, are what's necessary to pay the rent and keep the lights and utilities on so we all have a place to work out.
Most of the instructors aren't even paid. I don't know if *any* are. Maybe the Masters, but they don't get a lot if they get any.
I know I don't get paid when I go in and assist instead of taking a class.
We do it out of love of the art, and we pay the fees so we have someplace nice to work out.
Someplace where the property values, commercial and otherwise, were less wouldn't have to charge so much, but we are where we are, and *nobody* is getting rich off of our dojo.
We have to work hard keeping enrollment up just to keep the doors open. We do it because we love doing martial arts and want to have someplace to work out. I assist with classes, especially ones with lots of kids, because I like kids and I like helping them learn their basic techniques and first forms. And, apparently, I have something for a talent for explaining things so that people, especially kids, understand them.
There may well be dojos making huge amounts off the fees. *Most* dojos struggle to keep the doors open. And if those of us who enjoy that form of exercise, and enjoy the adrenaline rush and competition of sparring, want to pay the fees so we can do that, what's it to you?
Before you judge a particular dojo's fees, you might want to take a hard look at their expenses.
If you've never actually run a small business, you wouldn't believe how fast those expenses can pile up, and how high they go.
Timoclea
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I could not agree more with what you said! It almost sounds like we have the same granddaugher, only mine is still locked up. Her single crime was backtalking her parents (mom & stepdad), there were no drugs or other anti-social behaviors involved. The parents sent her away inspite of at least 4 close family members begging to take her into their homes. There was never any professional counseling (heaven forbid anyone might suggest the entire family needed help). The parents constantly humiliated her in public, telling everyone who would listen what a brat she was (including her friends,teachers and relatives). As a result of the situation, not only is the child suffering at the hands of some "program", but the large extended family has aligned themselves with one side or another, pitting sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles and grandparents against one another. It is truly a disgusting situation and our family will never be the same because of it.
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T - I wasnt saying it was, I'm saying to watch out for it and a lot of them end up turning into money-making mcdojos rather quickly.
No, not all are, but there are PLENTY. Having a look there could at least open your eyes. :razz:
Again, sorry if I was insinuating, but I was more trying to say going to take marital arts isnt just a fixall and you gotta make sure youre going to a legit one.
Plenty of them are good! They get to have fun and actually move their bodies around instead of sitting on a couch. Just watch out for ones that try to tell their students they're so badass they can enter the secret kumite but havent even sparred with gloves before or charge $1000 for a black belt.
The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.
-- Muhammad Ali
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On 2005-01-16 13:29:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"T - I wasnt saying it was, I'm saying to watch out for it and a lot of them end up turning into money-making mcdojos rather quickly.
No, not all are, but there are PLENTY. Having a look there could at least open your eyes. :smile:
Our dojo is really good about working around people's phyisical disabilities, too. We have one black belt who earned his black belt after double hip replacement. Even people with various disabilities (maybe especially them) need to know practical self-defense that works within what they can do.
Yeah, there are abusive places out there. Most of our school doesn't tournament fight because there's a general feeling that there's an over-emphasis on flash at the expense of substance and a tolerance of unsportsmanlike behaviors as a means to an end. We're real big on traditional respect for your opponent, which some people might call mystical bullshit---probably that's not what you meant, but at the time, that's why you struck a nerve. Sometimes I misinterpret stuff, too. Sorry.
Yes, martial arts are very helpful *if* you take the time to find a good dojo.
You're right, I should have qualified that recommendation.
Timoclea
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Hmm... how I trianed (havent been able to in a while, school and $$$ issues :sad:) was a emphasis on learning the technique and application. You can train with contact and not beat eachother up. I didnt really do forms. I guess the closest thing would be combos
Also, grappling arts let you go 100% from day one without injury. Nothing 'sells' BJJ like having some waifish woman choke me out rather helplessly.
We, too, care a lot about respect, but we just dont give any qualification fo ability to defend yourself (aka fight) unless you can actually spar with some level of chaos and contact. "drills" dont really cut it when the other person wont stand there with his arm stuck out while you make your move.
I'm not discreding what youre trying to do, I just dont like teachers saying they can defend themself... when they cant even fight. Either you can fight, or you cant. If you enjoy the exercise and use it as a tool to walk away without feeling ashamed, thats great. And, all of us would rather avoid a fight ourselves. We find actually doing that taught us better than doing tap-sparring and just being TOLD so.
Guess its natual consequences vs accepting whats told. Again, I'm not putting you down, just stating my philosophy. Frankly, not everyone is able to handle real sparring anyway. I just want honesty from the part of instructors - and good ones are anyway.Impiety: Your irreverence toward my deity.
--Ambrose Bierce
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Timoclea,
I found your post about how you handle your daughter very interesting. I have had to adopt a lot of pick your battles strategies, also. I had a hard time when she was very small with her complete opposition, but now, I just stand on the important ones. The goth issue is dead. That was just an example of poor choices she had made in the past. The "gay" thing wouldn't be such an issue with me, but at her high school it is common for the kids to all be "Bi" so they basically have orgies and sleep w/ everyone. Often unprotected. That I cannot let go. They specialize in having sex in very public places in order to get the high that comes with the fear of discovery. (macy's dressing room). It can be boy/girl, or boy/boy or boy/boy/girl, etc. I know we all did things we eventually got common sense about as we got older, but this is an unqualified no go for us. I believe her mental issues lead her to make very bad decisions, and she doesn't seem to find them wrong. Legally, morally, etc. I do fear for her safety. I think it's great when parents are able to reason with their children, and give them the power to make their own decisions. I have done that with her as far as I have been able to. Unfortunately, her behavior is too irrational to allow me to do that full time, as I'm sure you can see.
Thanks for the info,
Chi
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I don't know what your daughter has, but I can sympathize with the sex issues. 70% of bipolars are hypersexual, so it is more likely to be an issue than not at/after puberty.
At some point, the best you can do is to provide lots of condoms and the reasons to use them---and lots of low-key information on why rampant promiscuity is not in one's own best interests.
We did have a case in our metro area of kids having orgies at each others' houses after school and before parents got home.
It's a "no go" but unfortunately the only even partial cure for it is lots of supervision.
And, of course, you need to find out if there's an underlying brain problem causing the promiscuity.
In bipolars (for example) you can at least improve impulse control by getting our moods stabilized. And improving impulse control may not decrease sex drive, but it at least interposes some rational thought between drive and decision.
*If* there's some kind of organic brain problem contributing to her bad judgement and bad impulse control, you need to treat that problem before you're going to get improved behavior.
A portion of it, and there's no telling what portion, is that teens are *all* a bit rash---poor impulse control---compared to what they were as kids and will be as adults.
Part of it, a large part, is that teens frontal lobes are still developing. Organically, they don't have adult brains yet, and all that will really help is time---and time *will* help. Guess where impulse control lives? The frontal lobes.
I know rampant promiscuity is dangerous, and I'd be scared as hell, too. My husband and I have thought about this quite a bit based on what I was like as a teen and based upon the range of possibilities we're likely to face when our daughter is a teen.
Adding PTSD on top of whatever your kid's other problems are won't help. If I were you I'd seriously consider moving her to a same-sex traditional boarding school that is *not* a boot camp but limits contact with the opposite sex.
I hate to be this blunt, but if some of the girls decide to do each other, while there's *morally* a problem, she'll grow out of it, and she isn't going to get HIV from another girl.
What you really need is to keep her alive and uninfected until she grows up a bit---and *possibly* to take care of any underlying psychiatric problem, if there is one. But the kicker is without doing further damage.
Or, you could bring her home, maybe move towns to get her away from that crowd (or move across town)---which is a hell of a hassle, but considering the alternatives, worth it. Then you could make sure she doesn't leave the house without condoms in her purse---not to go *anywhere*---and supervise her as closely as possible whenever you could.
The goal here wouldn't be to *stop* her having sex, but to reduce her opportunities for sex and make it as easy as possible, when she slips the leash and gives in to the impulse for sex, to happen to think, "what the hell, I've got a condom...." and actually use the thing.
Reduce the risk, and try to provide fun that doesn't include sex on the menu---swimming, running, hiking, biking, skating (ice or roller), sports, music and dance. Again, martial arts is good *if* she takes to it because it's a good "fix" for an adrenaline junkie---if she's getting off on the thrill, and you can get her to get some of that thrill from sparring, you've got a *healthy* outlet. The other thing you might think about is other adrenaline-generating kinds of sports or recreation---roller coasters, hang gliding, bungee jumping, rappelling, competitive diving. If you can get her into running and hooked on "runner's high" it's safer than rampant promiscuity. Scuba diving, maybe. Rock climbing.
If you can get any organic brain problem stabilized, and divert her into a less self-destructive "kick," you might be able to at least reduce the risk.
If you end up with a psychiatrist helping you, and a therapist, maybe the therapist can persuade her to at least *try* different adventure sports, one after another. You may want to try them with her, or somehow arrange for a girlfriend to go along.
If you pick the sports that are higher in the number of boys that participate, you might get her to go along, thinking she's fooling you, in the hope of meeting cute boys with great bods----but then if she ends up into the sport to impress the guy, she's getting a less self-destructive high even if she does end up having a sexual relationship with a boyfriend. I get the impression that at this point *one* boyfriend and *safe* sex would be a relief.
I know this sounds like rewarding her for bad behavior, but if you're doing these things as a family, you can present them as rebuilding family time---and bring a girlfriend and let them flirt with the guys (because it lets her feel like she's getting around you a bit, you're more likely to get her buy-in--while reducing risk).
With a difficult kid, sometimes it's not so much about reward or punishment---that's a cycle you can get locked into that can get destructive. A lot of times it's about "distract and divert." You see what the kid's drives are, and you subtly (okay, even sneakily) divert her into ways of expressing those drives that are less self-destructive and healthier.
I think that's why the *original* Outward Bound actually worked/works for some kids---its orientation wasn't punitive, it was diversionary---divert the kid's drives and adrenaline-seeking into a constructive pursuit.
Hell, get the family roller-blading and hire a cute roller-blade instructor, or go on ski trips and get a ski instructor with the body of a pagan god. Get her places where there's a non-sex adrenaline fix on the "table." Get her places where the cutest guys around are getting *their* adrenaline fix from the sport and won't be impressed by promiscuity. Give her proximity to cute guys with healthy self-respect that she'll want to impress.
And then, of course, when you find an adrenaline sport she loves, stick with it. And stick with it with you and her dad going out and doing it, too--just not smothering her with your closeness while doing it.
That's what I'd do if my own daughter, as a teen, was behaving like you describe.
You could even be sneakier---I don't know if this would be a plus or a minus---and go into family therapy with the therapist primed beforehand where the therapist talks the seemingly-reluctant parents into taking their daughter on these family sport-adventure trips. It's sneaky, and it's underhanded, and if you get caught you're screwed---and I don't know if you can act worth beans. But if your kid is seriously oppositional, being talked into it by the family therapist who's "on your daughter's side" might make her more open to going and doing.
You can't get a teen to *not* seek thrills. Not without severely damaging her.
What you *can* do is channel her towards thrills with some real risk, and some risk that's just apparent, but a *much lower* real risk than her current bad behavior.
Timoclea