Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 29, 2004, 02:50:00 PM
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Brainwashing: the use of psychological techniques or psychotropic drugs on a person who is involuntarily present in a controlled environment to implant false or irrational beliefs in that person, regardless of whether the person or institution making the attempt knows or believes the ideas implanted to be false or irrational.
Given the above definition of brainwashing, I'd appreciate it if survivors and parents could list the top irrational or false beliefs the programs they've encountered personally or just heard of have attempted to implant.
I'll start with the ones I've noticed:
1) Without the program I'd be deadorinjail.
2) If a teen is sexually active, the teen is addicted to sex.
3) If a teen is a casual user of any drug, the teen is a drug addict.
4) If a teen is angry with his/her parents and disagrees with them and occasionally disobeys them, the teen has an "oppositional defiant disorder" or a "conduct disorder."
5) Authority figures always deserve respect.
6) Rules made by authority figures always deserve respect.
7) Communicating dislike of the conditions or treatment one is experiencing is manipulative.
:cool: Forcing people to participate in "therapy" sessions or yelling at them to reveal personal details or past behaviors or subjecting them to a strict controlled environment is *not* manipulative.
9) Telling the truth is deceitful and manipulative.
10) Deception by authority is honesty and is not manipulative.
11) Involuntary combinations of exercise and food that cause weight loss in minors who are within the 40th to 60th percentile for BMI is not abusive and is reasonable.
12) The ends justify the means.
13) The arbitrary actions of authority figures are only what has been retroactively "chosen" by the persons under the control of that authority.
14) When minors and the persons in authority over them disagree, the minor is always wrong.
There, that's a little more than a baker's dozen.
Anybody want to help me out and add a few?
Another good thing would be to use military SERE training as a model to help teens sent to facilities to recognize and understand when psychological techniques are being used on them and recognize what kinds of resistance are most effective, and what kinds of resistance merely opens up a back door into their brains for the facility.
For example, one technique often used by brainwashers is to make the victim violate their conscience in a small matter, and then use that as psychological leverage against them---the more they get the victim to participate in the brainwashing against others, the more it "takes" on the victim as his mind tries to protect him from his sense of guilt.
That's one of the biggest tricks---knowing what behavior in a captivity situation is harmless, and what behavior *seems* harmless but is really the tiny opening end of a wedge into the captive's brain.
Timoclea
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15. Whatever bad things have happened to me (sexual abuse, rape etc) was all my fault.
16. And let's not forget, "There is no right and wrong".
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Something else I'd like: Suggestions on where teens at risk of getting sent to a facility might hang out on the web, and possible ways of contacting them and encouraging them to come to and read a website helping them immunize themselves against some of the worst long-term effects of this kind of abuse.
Obviously, posting links will be involved and deception of any kind is right out.
I'm more thinking of ad-campaign type ideas. I'm reasonably good at that kind of thing myself, but the more the merrier.
I really think that's going to work better, over the long run, than my writing yet another article about the abuses in this industry. The articles are there. The websites are there. And *eventually* the reform will be there---all the pieces are in place waiting for the right incident to come along (like segregation and the composition of the USSC leading up to Brown v. Bd. of Ed. of Topeka---they were just waiting for the right case, and it came).
ISAC is there to help blood relatives get the word on how to go to court and end up with custody of their relative to get him/her out of a facility.
Fornits is here as an open-discussion forum to provide Sunshine across the industry---and does a damned fine job of it.
It looks to me like the next greatest need is for a SERE information training site designed for at-risk teens, and a targetted web advertising campaign to ensure they can find it.
I've got the technical knowledge and the resources to put it all together (including owning a domain where the ISP owner is a longtime friend and quite the individualist).
This is a thread starting the work on content.
For survivors, I'm interested in the false beliefs you found most pernicious personally, the twists used to get in *your* head to the extent that you understand them, and the arguments you found most convincing in finally setting yourself free.
A lot of the information will be adapted from one of the military's SERE training manuals.
Anyway, feel free to contribute anything you find useful.
Program advocates can feel free to comment as well, as I'll just ignore them. :smile:
Timoclea
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If you answer yes to more than 3 of these questions give us a call.
Phone:
1. Does your teen defy basic family rules?
2. Does your teen struggle in school not only academically but behaviorally?
3. Is your teen verbally abusive?
4. Is your teen hanging with friends you don?t approve of?
5. Has your teen lost interest in former previous areas of interest sports, hobbies etc.?
6. Does your teen refuse to do homework and chores?
7. Has your teen ever had any legal problems?
8. Do you feel that you need to walk on eggshells around your teen?
9. Is your teen on schedule to finish high school, or Jr. high school?
10. Has your teen ever gotten aggressive with you or any other adult?
11. Does your teen lack self esteem, seem depressed or act like they have given up?
12. Is your teen manipulative or dishonest with you?
13. Do you suspect that your teen may be sexually promiscuous?
14. Has your teen ever talked about suicide, or developed a suicide plan?
15. Do you suspect that your teen may be stealing from you?
16. Does your teen seem angry or display temper outbursts?
17. Do you feel you can trust your teen?
18. Does your teen struggle with authority?
19. Do you suspect your teen is using or experimenting with drugs/alcohol?
20. Are you worried about your child's safety and their future?
With the exception of suicide, most of these seem like normal teen angst to me and can, and should, be dealt with by the parents. But if your teen has just 3 of these...SEND THEM TO ME!!!!! :roll:
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Part of my motivation is that I learned as a rape survivor that even though the rape might have been more painful, and even more injurious, if I'd fought back actively during the attack, it likely would have cut years off my recovery from the *emotional* trauma of rape.
If I can't protect teens from being attacked psychologically (and physically) by unscrupulous facilities, at least I can help them reduce the long-term life damage by helping them speed their own psychological recovery afterwards.
Timoclea
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that was from
http://www.teenboardingschools.info/eva ... -help.html (http://www.teenboardingschools.info/evaluate-my-teen-help.html)
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During the course of the "Visions" seminar several "games" were played. During one of the sessions popsicle sticks were handed out on which the participants, in this case a then unsuspecting parent, had to write who they thought they were(after a day of brainwashing). The popsicle stick represented life, as in breathing, and was collected at some point during the seminar when other participants had voted who was to live and who to die during a "game". At the end of the weekend, all the popsicle sticks of the "dead" were returned to them. The facilitators and their henchmen/women "gave life" back to the parent. This seems to be a crucial element in the breaking-down of the participants since it is a devastating experience to be told "You die!". Does anyone remember the exact course of events in the Visions seminar for parents?
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On 2004-12-29 11:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Brainwashing: the use of psychological techniques or psychotropic drugs on a person who is involuntarily present in a controlled environment to implant false or irrational beliefs in that person, regardless of whether the person or institution making the attempt knows or believes the ideas implanted to be false or irrational.
<
1) Without the program I'd be deadorinjail.
Against the popular thought on this forum, parents think this BEFORE their decision to admit them - the program doesn't need to tell them this.
2) If a teen is sexually active, the teen is addicted to sex.
Would a rational parent really come to this conclusion? It's more than likely that they don't want their girl teen to become pregnant, but it's RARELY the only behavior that got them to the point of an admission.
3) If a teen is a casual user of any drug, the teen is a drug addict.
Are you serious? Again, casual drug use is not an addiction, but define casual, once a month? Using to the point of being incoherent or overdosing, but only used a few times? That statement is way too broad.
4) If a teen is angry with his/her parents and disagrees with them and occasionally disobeys them, the teen has an "oppositional defiant disorder" or a "conduct disorder."
Only in your dreams would a parent really think that. Teens disagree, it's the degree to which they disagree is the measure.
5) Authority figures always deserve respect.
Authority figures deserve to be disagreed with in a respectfulmanner.
6) Rules made by authority figures always deserve respect.
Again, respectfully disagreeing
7) Communicating dislike of the conditions or treatment one is experiencing is manipulative.
Depends on their history of communicating their dislikes.
8) Forcing people to participate in "therapy" sessions or yelling at them to reveal personal details or past behaviors or subjecting them to a strict controlled environment is *not* manipulative.
It is manipulative if that is the way it really happens, but it's not.
9) Telling the truth is deceitful and manipulative.
Reminds me of the boy that cried wolf.
10) Deception by authority is honesty and is not manipulative.
Depends on what the purpose for the dishonesty is. If it's to ultimately help, then the end does justify the means. Not that I agree with it being dishonest, it's an honest intention.
11) Involuntary combinations of exercise and food that cause weight loss in minors who are within the 40th to 60th percentile for BMI is not abusive and is reasonable.
No experience with this, so can't comment
12) The ends justify the means.
In some cases, of course it does. Saving a life either physically or mentally? Yep.
13) The arbitrary actions of authority figures are only what has been retroactively "chosen" by the persons under the control of that authority.
I agree, some people shouldn't have kids if they have the insane need to control to that point.
14) When minors and the persons in authority over them disagree, the minor is always wrong.
Only if the persons in authority are perfectionists and they always have to be right.
I'd like to add that all of your statements border on irrational in the real world. I don't personally know one single parent that would look at what you said and agree with it.
<<<
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On 2004-12-29 18:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"During the course of the "Visions" seminar several "games" were played. During one of the sessions popsicle sticks were handed out on which the participants, in this case a then unsuspecting parent, had to write who they thought they were(after a day of brainwashing). The popsicle stick represented life, as in breathing, and was collected at some point during the seminar when other participants had voted who was to live and who to die during a "game". At the end of the weekend, all the popsicle sticks of the "dead" were returned to them. The facilitators and their henchmen/women "gave life" back to the parent. This seems to be a crucial element in the breaking-down of the participants since it is a devastating experience to be told "You die!". Does anyone remember the exact course of events in the Visions seminar for parents?
"
It wasn't Visions, it was Focus and what I learned wasn't even close to this. It was about how well I cared for myself and would I trade my life for that of a stranger, or would I do whatever it took to stay "alive" to be strong and healthy for my family. What lengths would I go to be there for them...at least that's what I got out of it. Everyone's experience is different as are the interpretations. What was devastating was learning that I'd rather save someone else than myself, when I could have taken a stand for both our lives.
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Re timoclea's post on getting the word and help out to children, I have had a vision for a few years of constant protests at the current Straights with huge signs -- or, billboards along the routes to host homes -- saying YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO A LAWYER, or FOR HELP GO TO [put in name of website here]. See what I mean? Anything, anything to break down the walls, to enter SOMETHING in their brainwashed and/or isolated subconscious that there is a world outside of what they are living in.
SAFETY doesn't mean living in fear.
YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO RECEIVE MAIL
YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY OF BODY AND MIND
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On 2004-12-29 20:57:00, miseducated wrote:
"Re timoclea's post on getting the word and help out to children, I have had a vision for a few years of constant protests at the current Straights with huge signs -- or, billboards along the routes to host homes -- saying YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO A LAWYER, or FOR HELP GO TO [put in name of website here]. See what I mean? Anything, anything to break down the walls, to enter SOMETHING in their brainwashed and/or isolated subconscious that there is a world outside of what they are living in.
SAFETY doesn't mean living in fear.
YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO RECEIVE MAIL
YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY OF BODY AND MIND"
They'd make strict rules to keep the teens from looking out the windows. Not that it's not a good idea, just that it's more effective if we can reach and protect the teen *before* the teen gets institutionalized.
Timoclea
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On 2004-12-29 19:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2004-12-29 11:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Brainwashing: the use of psychological techniques or psychotropic drugs on a person who is involuntarily present in a controlled environment to implant false or irrational beliefs in that person, regardless of whether the person or institution making the attempt knows or believes the ideas implanted to be false or irrational.
[snip]
I'd like to add that all of your statements border on irrational in the real world. I don't personally know one single parent that would look at what you said and agree with it.
<<<
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I know the *parents* wouldn't agree with what I have to say.
*I* don't agree with what *they* do.
And just as I have no power to keep them from doing what they do, they have no power over my opinions, and they have no power to keep me from ripping back the curtain and showing the teens, in advance, the buttons and levers the "Great and Powerful Oz" will attempt to use to manipulate their psyches----and how to *effectively* resist that manipulation.
In my opinion, huge amounts of what is done to these teens in these facilities *I* wouldn't have been allowed to do to adult college students in an experimental setting even with their full and complete informed consent. In my opinion, huge amounts of what is done to these teens would *never* pass the human subjects' committed of any accredited major US university with a research psychology program---even with full informed consent of the subjects in advance.
In my opinion, huge amounts of what is done to these teens is unethical and in a just world would be prevented, stopped, or punished by the authorities.
A whole lot of "therapeutic" manipulations of people's minds, whether for good or ill, can only occur without the subject's consent *IF* the subject is unaware of what's being done.
I can't keep dysfunctional parents from institutionalizing their kids in bad facilities for trivial reasons---but I *can* rip the masks off the process and prevent at least a good chunk of the long term damage for the kids that find my page and read it.
So I will. Actually, I am. I'm pretty much writing chunks of the material for upload as we speak.
And I care even less what the parents might think than they care about what I think--and I'm pretty sure they don't care squat.
Timoclea
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I still have my stick. I saw it yesterday.It serves as a reminder.
I gave the others to a woman who was crying so sorrowfully I handed them all over to get her to get it together. The "lesson" came after the fact. The you die part was,could be very traumatizing.
A bunch of bullshit. It made an impact, but it was bullshit nevertheless.
Visions,in my opinion was all about building a sense of committment through community,families with in the Visions group. In reality it was about Promoting the Program and staying engaged in the Program.
I remember asking how do we the parents get an opportunity to participate in the financial benefit which was so obvious, if one does the math. They were discussing the new facilities that were being developed. I was thinking investment opportunities.
My questions received some very ugly looks from Barbra F the facilitator.
We could help network ,promote their program,but not benefit finacially from it.
Just give them my money don't ask questions!!!
At that time I was still unaware of the TRUTH.
The abuses of the children,the Fraud,the SCAMM, and more.
When I think back and read my many notes it becomes so obvious I had unsuspectingly been inducted into their secret cult..
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On 2004-12-29 19:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
I'd like to add that all of your statements border on irrational in the real world. I don't personally know one single parent that would look at what you said and agree with it.
Yup, insularity has it's perks. However, I'm a parent, you know me to some exten, and I agree w/ much of what the other poster has said.The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.
--Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President
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Here's a good site by, for and about teenagers taking charge of their own lives.
http://libertarianrock.com/ (http://libertarianrock.com/)
Welcome to Libertarian Rock
Libertarian Rock helps and promotes activists ? Libertarian Rockstars ? who peacefully and legally fight back against unjust laws and harassment by politicians and government workers.
They already have some info on the troubled parent industry ( http://libertarianrock.com/topics/teenc ... index.html (http://libertarianrock.com/topics/teencamps/teencampsindex.html) ) and I'm pretty sure they'd welcome your contributions and cross-link to your site.
Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
--Arthur C. Clarke, author
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On 2004-12-30 10:19:00, Antigen wrote:
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On 2004-12-29 19:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
I'd like to add that all of your statements border on irrational in the real world. I don't personally know one single parent that would look at what you said and agree with it.
Yup, insularity has it's perks. However, I'm a parent, you know me to some exten, and I agree w/ much of what the other poster has said.The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.
--Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President
"
Heck, *I'm* a parent.
I'm 37 with a 9 year old.
And I know a fair few parents, some with teens, some with grown kids, some with kids smaller than mine---running the gamut, really---who agree with at least a fair bit of what I said.
Their jobs just aren't as flexible as mine.
The level of groupthink among program advocates is incredible.
Timoclea
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That was me that wrote about the billboard signs. I agree that they would just make rules about looking out the windows. In the years since Straight I often think "what if" things, like "what if I had known more about brainwashing?" Then maybe they could not have gotten to me?
Just a few years after Straight, I was sitting in a waiting room (completely voluntarily) at a community mental health facility. On the wall was a big poster listing all of your rights as a client of ANY mental health facility (at least in that state). Well whattayaknow, my rights had been violated in Straight! What if Straight had had those RIGHTS posted on the wall? (Still not enough, but something.)
In rereading my first post, perhaps I overstated my point regarding years of anxiety and depression. From the outside, things might have seemed normal. After all, I went back to school, graduated on the honor roll, went to AA and NA meetings...
But then I could never figure out what to do. I had been so brainfried at Straight that nothing really mattered to me anymore. Again, hard to see from the outside, except that I went from place to place, school to school, job to job. Very normal, upstanding citizen. Mildly agoraphobic, paranoid, and with occasionally very noticeably poor social skills due to being trained in dissecting what I thought were other people's problems and then telling them about it.
I still struggle. The etiology of despair is not necessarily obvious. Those who are incarcerated now may have years of feeling like things aren't right, like the pieces of themselves are stuck together all wrong. Or, like they are just completely missing. This can take a long time to come to the surface. I am not surprised that recent undetainees still speak highly of whatever cult prison they were in.
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You missed my point completey and sound like "program"!
The clue was "unsuspecting parent". I woke up later - and the damage was done! Participants are UNAWARE indeed of what is happening to them - and that is what is so evil about it.
I stand corrected, though, it was FOCUS. Escaped terrible VISIONS!
The truth about these techniques will come out!
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I too have wanted to put up billboards by Pathways which is really Straight and by the old Straight building. I'd be willing to put money into something like this to make it happen. I think it would be great if something like this could get organized and happen.
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Your questions had Barbara F gave you a ugly looks! That's the funniest thing I've ever heard! Ms. Fagan would not have just looked at you but asked you enough questions to help you get real clear on what you were feeling.
If you wanted to make a little money off the program maybe you should join the staff over at PURE! THey're making a lot of money off the program by badmouthing it, legally!
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Miseducated,
You really do sound like a poor victim here.
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I do? Well, thanks! It is really nice of you to notice what I was saying, about how being brainwashed when I was a child has made for a lot of hard years. I appreciate your sympathy. I don't want to make it sound so terrible, I spend a lot of my time very enjoyably. There are some things that got messed up back then, though, in the cult I was in, and I really do have to figure them out now.
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Good luck with that.
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Anon,
Don't try and tell me what my experience was. Barbra Fagan did not appreciate my questions.
My questions brought out the obvious. She harrassed me for the next few days. The facilitators dont appreciate free thinkers.
If you question them you are targeted to be bullied, humiliated, harrassed. " My experience of YOU" is an opportunity to insult someone while hiding behind Cult jargon.
She did'nt appreciate my pointing out the abundance of money that was being made. I was looking at investment opportunities. How could we all get an opportunity to invest in the new facilities? We were a community. A neighborhood. Friends. We were all responsible for each other.
No, we could go out and "make a difference", but not benefit finacially from our concerted efforts.
BTW Credits were never received from our efforts to "Make a Differnce." Our Visions group was very good. We were told credits were never given to others. HMMMMMMM I wonder why?
At that time I was unaware of the conspiracy of ownership.
Barbra did'nt appreciate my questions. Too BAD.
What is Pure?
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On 2004-12-31 08:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
What is Pure?
http://helpyourteens.com/ (http://helpyourteens.com/)
Actually, it's my understanding that PURE had to spend a lot of money defending their right to tell what they know about WWASP. And they won that case, even in a Utah court. That says a LOT about this particular band of "saints", doesn't it?
But I'm told they make their money by refering kids to other programs. I've heard that Whitmore/Whoamidiscovery (Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks, also perennially under investigation) depends on them nearly exclusively. Anyone know if that's true or not?
Here's some discusion and info on Whitmore
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=35#69161 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=7303&forum=35#69161)
I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say that one is an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow it was better to say one was a humanist or agnostic. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author
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Just curious, what did you really mean by "poor victim"? It sounded like a loaded phrase, but I did not want to assume the worst.
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Take it how you want to. Like I said. I know that there are real victims and those who are full of it. I'm not saying you're either one. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-03 03:56 ]
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Ginger,
I dont have any information on the question you ask.
I DO know that here in my state the three different Ed Cons I had conversed with after our Program experience, that none of them refer to WWASP. They didnt elaborate why just that they would never refer to WWASP.
I have heard it from others too.
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I found it interesting that when I called Lon to let him know how I felt about our wwasp experaince; and to suggest he stop advertising for such a program; He insisted he never refers to them, and if I had hired him, instead of just reading his web site and booklets, he would not have refered us to wwasp.
Of corse, I maintain the extensive advertising amounts to a referal - but he disagrees.
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But of course he disagrees, because the bottom line always has to do with $$$$$.
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On 2005-01-03 09:41:00, Deborah wrote:
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But of course he disagrees, because the bottom line always has to do with $$$$$.
"
:smile:
Timoclea
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Does this make you wonder why?
On 2005-01-03 08:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ginger,
I dont have any information on the question you ask.
I DO know that here in my state the three different Ed Cons I had conversed with after our Program experience, that none of them refer to WWASP. They didnt elaborate why just that they would never refer to WWASP.
I have heard it from others too."
Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!
--Albert Einstein
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On 2005-01-03 09:41:00, Deborah wrote:
"
But of course he disagrees, because the bottom line always has to do with $$$$$.
"
I honestly don't think that's all of it. Everybody wants to make a lot of money. Not only is it really nice to not have to sweat basic survival (and extremely nice to be able to, like, tour Europe or buy someone you live a sports car for Christmas!) but it's also an ego boost to get concrete evidence that you must be doing something of value.
Trouble w/ that last part is that our economy is so skewed from the base of our sensibilities that it's no longer relavent. Some days it seems to be inverse. Very perverse, eh?
But that's still not what drives the people who drive the industry. It's more like sainthood. Take a look at posts by the guy who calls himself The One Who Cares. He seems to honestly believe that those desperate grasping attempts at kind human contact are exactly equal--no superior to--authentic affection and respect earned over time.
These people are Group adulation junkies!
"Scoundrels are predictable, but you're a man of honor and that frightens me."
Robert Heinlein, Glory Road.
Web pages are like babies -- creation involves a level of enthusiasm that does not necessarily carry over into maintenance.
--Joe Chew
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On 2005-01-03 01:58:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Take it how you want to. Like I said. I know that there are real victims and those who are full of it. I'm not saying you're either one. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-03 03:56 ]"
Just curious: how do you know that there are real victims and those who are full of it?
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Ginger,
I totally agree with your perception, AND I'm not sure they'd be doing this 'saintly' work if they weren't handsomely compensated. I'd have to guess that money is the first priority and ego the second.
My comment actually was in response to him taking money from W for advertsing yet does not refer to them. I think in that case is is all about the moolala.
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On 2005-01-03 08:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ginger,
I dont have any information on the question you ask.
I DO know that here in my state the three different Ed Cons I had conversed with after our Program experience, that none of them refer to WWASP. They didnt elaborate why just that they would never refer to WWASP.
I have heard it from others too."
Hate to beat a dead horse, but educational consultants are NOT paid a fee to refer to a WWASPS school. Why would they refer to them if they don't receive compensation?
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I don't. That's why I say if you are a true victim my heart goes out to you.
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Interestinly enough,their answer had nothing to do with compensation .It had more to do with what they know to be the TRUTH about the "treatment" the Program provides.
I was trying to be discreet.
WWASP is bad news in the ED Con business from my understanding.
I have had convesations with an ED Con who does benefit finacially (Struggling Teens) still "they nver refer to WWASP."
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Ginger,
I now know why. I had left multiple messages with
Ed Cons seeking help for my child .
Teen Help works much, much quicker than the others. Unfortunately. Their fear mongering is as good as their lies.
The returned calls came after the kid was there. Some weeks later.Then I called again after I had learned the truth.I was seeking information.
When I went back to our local guy who had tested my child he looked sick when I shared the kid was enrolled in WWASP Program.
People in the industry know, but are unwilling to step up and do something about this atrocity.
Prepare for the next natural disaster. God is watching.
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Hate to beat a dead horse, but educational consultants are NOT paid a fee to refer to a WWASPS school. Why would they refer to them if they don't receive compensation?
No mystery here.
Most ed cons are paid by the Parents - not the program.
In theory, this arrangement is more likely to result in the ed con actually trying to find the best fit for the kid in question. Where as, if the Programs are paying per placement - then they might be a little to likely to refer to the program that compensates the best with out regard for the kids best interest.
Lon was insisting, if *I* had paid him, instead of just reading his web site and his booklets, then he would have found me a better safer program.
I can't say this isn't so, b/c I didn't pay him. I simply trusted his reputation, which I had been told by counselors was good; and ignorantly assumed the programs he advertised where programs he endorsed. I never dreamed any thing like wwasp was possible. Had no idea I needed to be on guard for the kind of disinformation and manipulation I was facing with them. I do hold Lon responsible for that. He knows. He should be much more proactive warning parents; and he should not accept their advertising. In my opinion, there is no excuse for it. He disagrees.
Back to who pays who - WWASP is well known to compensate referring parties. I see no reason to believe they would exclude an "ed con".
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If they don't compensate Ed Cons, then perhaps this IS why Lon only takes their 'advertising dollars' and doesn't make 'referals'.
Either way, he is not acting ethically if he would've found you a 'safer' program HAD YOU PAID HIM to do so. His position seems pretty obvious with that statement. For all intents and purposes he admitted to you that W was an unsafe program. If he thinks the program is 'unsafe' or even less safe than others, should he list them at his site? No. Totally unethical.
Their referal program is the biggest ponzi scheme to come down the pike.
Further, might his comment be a fraudian slip. As in, there are no 'safe' programs, just safer?
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I guess I better be a bit more exact -
More apropreate, was the actual term Lon used.
But the context was a conversation in which I was griping about the harsh and unsafe aspects of wwasp; and in which he often responded, Yes, I have heard that before.
I translated "more appropreate" into "better, safer" and I do think that is exactly what he was telling me - due to the context of the conversation.