...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana
is its effect on the degenerate races.
Harry Anslinger
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
--Albert Einstein
Do you support drug prohibition because it finances criminals at home or because it finances terrorists abroad?
--Anonymous
On 2004-12-26 10:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Be careful responding to Cary Bock.
She is bought and paid for by WWASP.
In My experainced opinion, She is trolling for responces that will help them find grounds to come after the forum and the indiviguals on it.
"
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins; all of them imaginary.
H.L. Mencken, 1923
None of Nature's landscapes are ugly so long as they are wild.
-- John Muir
If you would take the time to actually READ the inhouse magazine, The Source, you would have your questions answered in more ways than can be explained here.
Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher
It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
If we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion by education
--Thomas Jefferson
There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington
On 2004-12-26 18:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Maybe your questions aren't being answered to your liking, or because you are ripping everything to shreads what is answered.
What do you want to hear?
What did they do to the kid? Doing something TO a person is not a good question.
What do they provide for the kid is a better one. In your rudeness, is that what you are really asking?
As for the seminars - sorry, you're question was answered as good as it will get. You'll just have to go yourself to get your own answers. No one can answer that for you - not avoiding, it's the way it is.
"
On 2004-12-26 13:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
Niles - Only the therapist and the teen know what the process was during therapy. That's confidential as it is with any patient/client realationship. If a student wants to share this, fine.
This was MY personal experience:
We went to the program together, no transport services.
Toured, met with staff, met with students. Saw every nook and cranny of the school. Met the student who would be his "buddy" for the first few days.
Said our goodbyes - very emotional for both of us.
Wrote letters to begin the process of rebuilding our communication - The first letters were angry and manipulative. we got the full uncensored venting.
skipping some for brevity
...
Parent/Child 1 - more indepth than the parent weekend, defined personal and family values, how to apply what we learned about each other, respecting our differences, more goals, beginning the process of a home contract. Getting to the heart of anything we felt was still unresolved in our relationships - us and other family members, old friends and choices.
Parent/Child 2 - the graduation workshop. I call it the "no sugar coating" workshop - leaving no stone unturned. Talked about the fear of having old behaviors come up, what to do about it, separating normal teen choices from the old stuff, a commitment to stay true to ourselves but to work together as a family. A commitment to continue asking for help when needed. We acknowledged that mistakes happen, it's what we learn from them that makes the difference. Defining what success means in our family.
He was at grade level, making straight A's with all his credits transferring to his home high school. Close to 4 years home, graduated high school and remains drug free. Learned to control his anger and believes in himself. We continue to have "respectful" communication even if it's not what we want to hear. He's still the same kid, minus the attitude and drugs, making choices that he owns. I'm still the same person minus the blame and anger that contributed to what happened. Lots of deep, inner soul searching and work.
Government operates best when it allows all messengers to offer their views, allowing the American people to decide which take root and which wither away.
--Harold Furchtgott-Roth, member of the Federal Communications Commission
What was done with the seed saved from the India Hemp last summer? It ought, all of it, to have been sewn again; that not only a stock of seed sufficient for my own purposes might have been raised, but to have disseminated the seed to others; as it is more valuable than the common Hemp.
George Washington, Writings of Washington, Vol. 35, pg. 72
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#71510 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5280&forum=9&start=20#71510)Quote
When my kid came to us after nearly a year at Casa/WWASPS, she struggled with making friends. A couple of tiny-brained mothers forbade their daughters consorting with her, as she had been "sent off to a school" and obviously was a real risk for their precious children to befriend.
Did you kid complete the program? If not, then I wouldn't want my kid 'consorting' with him/her either. There's too much of a difference in the integrity of a grad than someone who didn't complete.
Of course, if you leave the group by pulling your kid or by just not enforcing TOUGHLOVE at home after graduation, none of the members in good standing will consort with you or your child. So you're effectively screwed, unless and until it dawns on you that it's all manipulative bullshit and this is not a club worthy of yours or your kids' membership.
Nother example. A lot of people believe that the Program gave them the gift of Awareness. Doesn't matter whether they viewed the Program as good, bad or somewhere in between. They believe they learned from it the ability to size someone up and figure them out pretty reliably in seconds flat. What we really learned was to make snap judgements about people based on shaky criteria and to invest full faith in them. At the time, it sure seemed like something special. In retrospect, that and a buck fifty might get you a decent cup of coffee somewhere.
To be perfectly clear, I'm not just throwing stones here. This is not just a description of one of the down sides of the Program. What I mean is that this, literally, is how the Program works. It offers exactly nothing at great expense by convincing the consumer that it is something so rarified as to be worth the cash and all other commitments, up to and including severing ties w/ anyone (including close kin) who may try to point out to you that it's bullshit.
Babylon in all its desolation is a sight not so awful as that of the human mind in ruins.
-- Scrope Davies: Letter to Thomas Raikes, May 25, 1835.
On 2004-12-27 18:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Antigen - Your post is a few past, but haven't figured out how to do the quote thing.
1. I never had a reason to think that what we saw wasn't the way it really was.
2. We, as a family defined OUR values, both personal and family. Are you asking if someone defined them for us? Then the answer is no.
3. Normal teen behavior was defined by us. Normal (which is only a word because what is normal?) for our family, meant that it wasn't a life-threatening, dangerous action or MAJOR disrespect, for us or himself.
Ministers say that they teach charity. That is natural. They live on hand-outs. All beggars teach that others should give.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
668: The Neighbor of the Beast
--Anonymous Postman
To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
Should anyone want the full details of seminars ask me. It takes a long time to explain 3 days. "
On 2004-12-27 08:01:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"Battle for the Mind: A Physiology of Conversion and Brainwashing
The Manipulated Mind: Brainwashing, Conditioning and Indoctrination
Releasing The Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves
Combatting Cult Mind Control"
On 2004-12-28 08:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/TeenHelp/breaking.htm"
On 2004-12-28 14:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Old news. We have seen this before and pesonally from reading the 1st one, i think this women is very unstable and has major problems and that is most likely what led to her chiilds problems.
<
On 2004-12-28 04:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I agree what else does this parent need to tell you and all the kids that have been through it and not hateful and revengful. You simlply will not allow yourself to believe that kids are actuall getting help at these schools, and anyone that tells you different is a programed robot. Just nuts! Thank you to the parent for shraing, it helps me feel even better about what I do. The one that cares"
Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its
best state is but a necessary evil ---in its worst state an
intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same
miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without
government, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we
furnish the means by which we suffer!
Thomas Paine, Common Sense
On 2004-12-28 14:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Old news. We have seen this before and pesonally from reading the 1st one, i think this women is very unstable and has major problems and that is most likely what led to her chiilds problems.
All you people do is bring up old news.
Anything new??The one that cares"
No gods, no masters.
--margaret Sanger
On 2004-12-28 14:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Old news. We have seen this before and pesonally from reading the 1st one, i think this women is very unstable and has major problems and that is most likely what led to her chiilds problems.
All you people do is bring up old news.
Anything new??The one that cares"
On 2004-12-28 10:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Her follow up a year later:
http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/Tee ... lile2.html (http://www.intrepidnetreporters.com/TeenHelp/karen_lile2.html)"
Our country has deliberately undertaken a great social and economic experimanet, noble in motive and far-reaching in purpose. [The Eighteenth Amendment, enacting Prohibition.]
Letter to Senator W.H. Borah
--Herbert Hoover (Feb 28, 1928)
On 2004-12-29 05:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't really need to go into why i think she was unstable,
because i agree with a few posts back, that she was not ready to open up and address her shit, which everyone does have a little of,
She was intimidated by the leader and thus shut down more.
She took offense to someone trying to get through to her and her husband.
Do you have at least one more article like this?
The men behind Teen Help
Teen Help was started by Lichfield, 45, a southern Utah businessman who lives on an estate in the spectacular canyon country near St. George. The estate features private trout ponds and a gymnasium.
Lichfield got his start in behavior modification two decades ago when he worked at Provo Canyon School in Provo, Utah. Provo Canyon is a strict punishment-and-rewards program for kids having problems getting along with their parents.
In the late 1980s, Lichfield attended encounter-group sessions organized by David Gilcrease. Gilcrease had been a trainer from 1974 to 1981 for LifeSpring, a company that perfected a form of encounter sessions called "large group awareness training."
TIMEOUT ROOMS
Girls at Cross Creek Manor who don't cooperate spend time in these
isolation rooms. Cross Creek is licensed by the state as a residential
treatment center and has therapists on staff.
_________________________________________________________
Some psychologists call it "coercive persuasion." In December 1990, Lichfield incorporated a residential treatment center called Cross Creek Manor in La Verkin. He obtained a Utah state license to run it.
In 1993 Lichfield contracted to run Brightway Adolescent Hospital in nearby St. George. It became the receiving center for youths entering the Teen Help network.
About the same time, Lichfield developed the idea of placing teens in a compound in Western Samoa.
Teen Help's first foreign venture was Paradise Cove in the Pacific island nation. Kids would be taken from their homes by an escort service, sometimes by one run by Lichfield's brother, Narvin.
TEEN HELP HEADQUARTERS
The World Wide Association of Specialty Programs, a Teen Help umbrella
group, is headquartered in this modest building in La Verkin, Utah.
_________________________________________________________
The teens would be sent to Brightway for a quick psychological assessment, then put on a plane to the South Pacific.
Lichfield hired Gilcrease to create the behavior modification programs needed to all but guarantee parents changes in their defiant teens.
Gilcrease crafted a series of seminars called TASKS (Teen Accountability, Self-esteem, Keys to Success). He also created companion seminars for parents.
Some participants say they include all-powerful "facilitators" who use peer pressure, confessions, sleep deprivation, fear, anger, loneliness and self-criticism as tools to modify behavior. Other participants say the sessions were greatly revealing.
Lichfield, Gilcrease and Facer acknowledge that they have little use for formal psychology.
"We don't deal with emotional disorders," Gilcrease said. "We are not psychologists. We do not deal in that realm. I don't need to detect emotional disorders when I'm talking about the value of keeping your word."
"I think I'm talented working with youth, but I don't have a college degree in that area," Lichfield told Dateline NBC. "... I personally don't believe it's necessary."
Facer said training in adolescent psychology isn't necessary.
"Automakers learned a long time ago that if the right system is engineered, everyone who works on the assembly line is not required to be an engineer themselves," he said. "These (Teen Help) programs have been carefully engineered by many professionals in the field, who not only have extensive educational backgrounds but also have scores of years of experience." ... The programs are continually monitored on a daily basis to insure that the designed outline is being followed."
Teen Help's corporate structure changed in 1997 when the organization formed a series of limited liability companies and limited partnerships. Kay earlier this year said that Lichfield remains the controlling power. But Lichfield said, "I no longer own, control or direct any of the programs."
Facer said he and Lichfield "only consult with the directors of the programs at their request."
Emotional nightmare
Video of sobbing son prompts dad to yank
him from Montana youth camp
By Lou Kilzer
Denver Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer
There's no doubt Eric Stone had a problem. Grades. "I was doing very crappy in school," concedes Eric, 16, who spent 41/2 months in Teen Help, the Utah-based network of behavior modification camps for teens.
His father, Craig Stone, said he wasn't all that concerned. Eric, who lived with his father north of Seattle, didn't drink, do drugs or run with outlaws. The poor grades were just a phase, Craig Stone thought.
That's one side of the story. But as in many other cases involving Teen Help, Eric's other parent saw things differently.
Vickie, Craig Stone's ex-wife, declined to discuss her son's case in detail with the Denver Rocky Mountain News. But her actions indicate that she was concerned about her son and arranged to send him to Teen Help. Craig Stone says that Eric often visited his mother on weekends. So when Eric did not return home one Sunday night in September after a visit with Vickie, Craig Stone says he was not overly concerned. Eric would be home the next morning.
But by Monday afternoon, Craig Stone said he "kind of felt something was up."
Soon Craig Stone's brother called. Vickie, the brother said, had just told him she had sent Eric to a boarding school.
"It was devastating for me," Craig Stone said. "I tried calling her. She wouldn't take my calls. She just sent me a letter stating that Eric's in a new school and she would tell me where he was if I agreed to sign a contract and leave him there."
Craig Stone wouldn't agree. But he said he "played it like a sucker and got as much information as I could."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Stone's sister hit the Internet trying to piece together what might have happened.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Stone's sister hit the Internet trying to piece together what might have happened. After three months of detective work, they thought the most likely spot that Vickie had taken Eric was a place called Spring Creek Lodge near Thompson Falls, Mont. If so, it would mean that Eric was in the care of Teen Help.
"The information we were digging up was scaring us because we were afraid of them transferring Eric to Samoa or Jamaica," Craig Stone said.
"So I kept quiet until I was absolutely sure."
Finally, he called Spring Creek director Cameron Pullan. Yes, Pullan said, Eric was there. He said he thought that Craig Stone had known it all along.
Because Craig Stone had joint custody with Vickie, Pullan said, Craig Stone must sign the contract authorizing Eric's stay at Spring Creek Lodge. Craig Stone said no.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAY 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Desperate measures
'It saved his life'
Emotional nightmare
The series
Share your thoughts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A court hearing to resolve the parents' dispute over Teen Help was set. Then two things happened to make Craig Stone decide to take charge.
In an effort to convince Craig Stone that Spring Creek Lodge was right for Eric, the Teen Help staff there videotaped the interview with Eric included in this article.
The video shocked Craig Stone. It showed a sobbing, distraught Eric saying how much he missed his home and how much he knew he must remain in Montana. Craig Stone became even more alarmed when he called Spring Creek and learned that Eric was on suicide watch.
He gathered his brother, sister and a friend who is a former pro football lineman. The four headed to Thompson Falls.
Craig Stone went to the sheriff's office and showed a deputy the custody papers. The deputy called the compound.
"If Eric wants to come home, you let him go," Craig Stone said the deputy warned Pullan. The four adults drove to Spring Creek Lodge, where Pullan met them.
"All of a sudden, Eric comes running out of nowhere, crying his head off," Craig Stone said.
Eric flew into his arms. "He was overwhelmed," his father said. "He couldn't believe it was happening."
Many kids report positive experiences in Teen Help, but Eric isn't one of them. He didn't like it from the day he arrived, and he said it only got worse.
When he started out on Level 1 -- the lowest rung on the Teen Help ladder -- he said a "buddy came everywhere with me. Took showers with me. Came with me when I had to go to the bathroom."
The only way to shake the buddy was to take and pass Teen Help's rugged group encounter seminars. To Eric, the sessions were worse than staying on Level 1, although they lasted only three days each.
"They just rip you with feedback," he said. "They tell you you're crap. They try to bring you up in more of their beliefs. ... They try to get you to be like a kid that doesn't talk back, that doesn't question authority, that just goes along with whatever happens."
Eric said he faked his way through the first two seminars but lacked the emotional defenses to withstand the third seminar, called "Accountability."
"It's known to make you programmed," he said. " ... You totally will into the program. You don't see anything wrong with it. You don't have anything against it." An hour into Accountability, Eric said he refused to go on. He said that's when the staff and other students turned on him.
"Everybody was getting down on me because I chose out of the third seminar," Eric recalls. "I knew it wasn't for me."
Soon, Craig Stone said he was told, his son was on suicide watch.
Unknown to Eric, Craig Stone was trying behind the scenes to get him out.
Now living again with his father, Eric is readjusting to life, but it's a struggle.
"In school, he's doing great," his father says, but then he hesitates. "It's up and down," Craig Stone says.
"He's angry. Still angry. Sparks fly between us occasionally. "There's a lot of resentment and hard, unanswered feelings. We both need to get some counseling to get over this whole thing."
"I think I'm talented working with youth, but I don't have a college degree in that area," Lichfield told Dateline NBC. "... I personally don't believe it's necessary."
Facer said training in adolescent psychology isn't necessary.
"Automakers learned a long time ago that if the right system is engineered, everyone who works on the assembly line is not required to be an engineer themselves," he said. "These (Teen Help) programs have been carefully engineered by many professionals in the field, who not only have extensive educational backgrounds but also have scores of years of experience." ... The programs are continually monitored on a daily basis to insure that the designed outline is being followed."
On 2004-12-29 08:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote"I think I'm talented working with youth, but I don't have a college degree in that area," Lichfield told Dateline NBC. "... I personally don't believe it's necessary."
Facer said training in adolescent psychology isn't necessary.
"Automakers learned a long time ago that if the right system is engineered, everyone who works on the assembly line is not required to be an engineer themselves," he said. "These (Teen Help) programs have been carefully engineered by many professionals in the field, who not only have extensive educational backgrounds but also have scores of years of experience." ... The programs are continually monitored on a daily basis to insure that the designed outline is being followed."
Does anyone else find it a bit disturbing to have this guy compare working with troubled teens to an auto assembly line?????
Formal education to work with troubled kids??? Why??? :roll: :roll:
"
On 2004-12-29 05:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't really need to go into why i think she was unstable, because i agree with a few posts back, that she was not ready to open up and address her shit, which everyone does have a little of,
She was intimidated by the leader and thus shut down more.
They are most likely very conservative people and most likley have that middle of amereica attitude which has our evil tyrant running our country.
No one is going to tell this ladie that she might have a few problems to deal with and yes she also seemed to feel she was there more for her child than for herself.
She took offense to someone trying to get through to her and her husband. Do you have at least one more article like this? I don;t think so. This is the only time that anything close to this was written.
One person out of thousands, oh i'm sorry 2, her husband also.
I took a boy from one program to another and he had been in the program 7 months and had just screwed and now was being transfered,I had also been his escort the 7months before and he was one of the kids i was able to bond with. so i knew we were going to have a good time and probbably the best 20 hours he has had in 7 months, because yes it is a very strict at these programs. Well he told me that sure it was hard, but there were allot of poeple there who cared and yea he said there were some that he felt did not care, mostly the new staff that was hired.
Anyway his favorite part of the program was the seminars and he felt that they helped him more thatn anything else in the program. I only hope he really does it now and gets his but home as soon as possible. But again, you won't believe me because i am not proof. The one that cares"
A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace.
James Madison, The Federalist No. 46
On 2004-12-29 07:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You missunderstood me , i meant more negative stuff on the seminars that you call brainwashing and has seemed to help so many people including perigaud who is living testimony that something they are doing works and she sounds like a very intelligent person, not someone brianwashed.So where are more aticles about the bad horrible seminars. I've read all the articles you have posted in the past, no need to take up your time with putting them here again.Oh and by the way june 13 1999, that is new?? sept.2003, that is new?So this is a written testimony about the seminars that was written, but it is still the only thing i have seen. The one that cares.
Keep trying though maybe you will find an interesting article from the 70's or 80's."
On 2004-12-29 11:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWASPS
The World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS or WWASP) is a Utah, United States based organization that runs programs that they claim can correct what is perceived as inappropriate behavior by children as young as 12."
On 2004-12-29 11:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"http://www.city-data.com/elec/elec-LA-VERKIN-UT.html
Lichfield, Robert B Mr., (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE on 09/29/03
Robert Lichfield (Teen Help/Owner), (Zip code: 84745) $10000 to UTAH REPUBLICAN PARTY (FEDERAL ACCOUNT) on 11/11/03
GUBLER, EDNA N MRS. (RETIRED/RETIRED), (Zip code: 84745) $200 to NEW REPUBLICAN MAJORITY FUND on 04/28/04
GUBLER, EDNA N MRS., (Zip code: 84745) $200 to NEW REPUBLICAN MAJORITY FUND on 06/24/04
LICHFIELD, ROBERT B (ADOLESCENT PROGRAM CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to BENNETT ELECTION COMMITTEE INC on 04/25/03
LICHFIELD, ROBERT B (ADOLESCENT PROGRAM CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to BENNETT ELECTION COMMITTEE INC on 08/06/03
LICHFIELD, ROBERT B (ADOLESCENT PROGRAM CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $200] to BENNETT ELECTION COMMITTEE INC on 08/06/03
LICHFIELD, ROBERT B (ADOLESCENT PROGRAM CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to BENNETT ELECTION COMMITTEE INC on 08/06/03
Lichfield, Patricia (N/A/Homemaker), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to GEOFF DAVIS FOR CONGRESS on 09/30/03
Lichfield, Robert B. (Self-Employed/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to GEOFF DAVIS FOR CONGRESS on 12/31/03
Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 06/30/03
Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $200] to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 06/30/03
Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $4000 to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 06/30/03
Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 03/31/04
Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $200] to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 03/31/04
Gubler, Kerry J. (Cross Creek Manor/Director), (Zip code: 84745) $250 to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 09/30/04
Lichfield, Patti (Homemaker), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to ROB BISHOP FOR CONGRESS on 04/08/04
Lichfield, Robert (Self-Employed/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to ROB BISHOP FOR CONGRESS on 04/08/04
LICHFIELD, ROBERT (HATFIELD AND LICHFIELD), (Zip code: 84745) $4000 to RICHARD BURR COMMITTEE on 01/27/04
LICHFIELD, ROBERT (HATFIELD AND LICHFIELD), (Zip code: 84745) $200] to RICHARD BURR COMMITTEE on 02/10/04
LICHFIELD, ROBERT (HATFIELD AND LICHFIELD), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to RICHARD BURR COMMITTEE on 02/26/04
LICHFIELD, ROBERT B. MR. (SELF-EMPLOYED/CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to BUSH-CHENEY '04 (PRIMARY) INC. on 08/07/03"
Consensus Trance
Many years ago (c. 1976-78) I used to experiment with hypnosis. I had since wondered how such a thing could be possible -- how could a capacity for hypnosis evolve? The solution appeared, finally, in an interview with Charles Tart. (Charles Tart is a Professor Emeritus of the University of California at Davis.)
Essentially, hypnotic trance is not so unusual; it's the usual condition of almost everybody, almost all the time. A hypnotist only nudges you from one trance to another. What most people describe as "awake" (and thinking about money, football scores, the drug/ terrorist menace, or TV), consciousness researchers call "consensus trance" -- a common agreement about how to interpret the world. We don't notice we're hypnotized because people around us are hypnotized the same way.
On 2004-12-28 04:44:00, Perrigaud wrote:
I told my mom that I thought she was weak because she never spoke up as much as my dad did. I told my dad he had no tact. At this point you also work on the plan for returning home. You begin to lay down the foundation (rules and consequences).
"Automakers learned a long time ago that if the right system is engineered, everyone who works on the assembly line is not required to be an engineer themselves," he said. "These (Teen Help) programs have been carefully engineered by many professionals in the field, who not only have extensive educational backgrounds but also have scores of years of experience. " ... The programs are continually monitored on a daily basis to insure that the designed outline is being followed."
Cops; you wake `em up you gotta dance with `em. They lead.
-- Jack McNulty
On 2004-12-29 16:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You have lost it completely. Seek therapy!"
Theology: The effort to explain the unknowable in terms of the not worth knowing.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher
On 2004-12-29 18:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
If what the kids and parents learn about themselves in the seminars is brainwashing, I say "get out the soap and sponge!" It's not mind control or anything negative!
We ought to be grateful that our government monopoly schools are such a failure. If today's 18 year olds could do arithmetic, they'd be out buying enough rope to hang everybody over 40.
--Alan Handleman on Social Security
Time is running out. The Indians' botanical knowledge is disappearing even faster than the plants themselves.
--Richard Schultes, Harvard University educator, authority on medicinal plants
On 2004-12-30 02:16:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"The tactics in the seminars are ones that have been used in different situations. By this I mean that a lot of corporate "team building" and "excellence training" have the processes we used in the seminars. Muisic plays, lights are dimmed, writing is at hand, etc. All play a key role in stimulating the different regions of our minds as well as effect.
To those of you who don't have the patience to wait for my answers relax. I will answer when I'm not busy. I work 3 jobs, sleep 7 hours a day, and work for 13 hours. I will. There's no need to cuss. It just makes you look juvinile.
As for the mixed signals I aggree that they always claim ignorance. Of course they'd say that. In some cases the ignorance is true. The CEO's are not always around to see every move. It's unfortunate but I'm sure that the kids being taken advantage of were not all lying. Some of them were. "
The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this.
--Albert Einstein, My First Impression of the U.S.A., 1921
On 2004-12-29 18:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
Casa by the Sea was not shut down for abuse. It was shut down for political reasons that we may never know completely.
Wicked men obey from fear, good men from love.
--Aristotle
On 2004-12-30 04:37:00, one who cares wrote:
There is no physical contact unless a kid loses control.
That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism.
--Thomas Henry Huxley, English biologist
On 2004-12-30 09:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No it's not Rick, I* know who he is and don't work for him. As for not eating, I don't know what shool your son went to, but at most of the schools i deal with, they do not starve them. I was told by a girl i took from one program to another that they get a choice at each meal and that is a %50 portion, or %100. The thing i don't agree with is that what ever thier choice they need to eat all of it or get in trouble. As i said i don't agree with everything that is done.But they don't starve them. I was also told that the %100 portion was very large.
I'm sorry if i can't say my name and who i work for, but there are too many hateful people here and me and my company don't need any hate mail or phone calls. Tha one that cares"
On 2004-12-30 08:03:00, Antigen wrote:
"Quote
On 2004-12-30 04:37:00, one who cares wrote:
There is no physical contact unless a kid loses control.
Simple question, (Rick, right? [wrong]). How do you know this?
On 2004-12-30 04:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"They need to deal with allot of hate and resentment
the bottom line is all the complaing you hear is from the most messed up and stubborn kids, who refuse to do anything when they get to these schools and get phsical at times and need to be restrained.
There is no physical contact unless a kid loses control.
A parent knows it is going to 3-6 months before they will be able to talk to thier child and can write letters until then.
This is again the hardest decision these parents are making in thier lives, and i see tears from not only the kids, but both mothers and fathers.I have seen grown men weep like babies.
But they know what they are doing is right and that they have tried everything they could and do not want thier kids dead or in jail.
Do you people think AA, or NA, or CA are brainwashing millions of people to stop drugs?
On 2004-12-30 10:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
it is very frightening that they up and hightailed to san miguel, where they are free to do as they please in a mexican state that can do very little to watch over these groups. I feel for these last 15 mexico students, i really fear for them.
All I ask is equal freedom. When it is denied, as it always is, I take it anyhow.
--H.L. Mencken
Q. I simply ask, why is PUNISHMENT the solution with regards to the narrow group of behaviors which encompass illegal drug use....?A.Pharmaceutical Business, both legal and illegal, run by the same people either way, money coming to the middle from both ends. Bush.
Bill Gallagher
On 2004-12-30 15:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"All they know how to do is complain! Perigaud did you see anyone get restrained for no reason or for looking out a window? You see Perigaud is the only one i will believe because she was there. And you still won't believe her.
Drug War tells us everyone's body is common property
to be managed by the central government for our own
good, even if it kills us. This is Communism!
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
Again kids are kids and don't have the rights of an 18 year old,
On 2004-12-30 15:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Oh and by the way, after what you have said about The AA program I know you are a bunch of idiots!!You just proved it to me,and nothing you say will mean anything to me.The one that cares
IDIOTS!!"
Do you people think AA, or NA, or CA are brainwashing millions of people to stop drugs?
I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer
On 2004-12-29 22:30:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"I go there because I want to! If I want to deal with something I do it while I'm comfortable and NOT under duress or stress from it. I can pick whatever I want to talk about - I'm not going there to follow some plan he had.
I'm not there to jump through hoops and end up coming out how he wats me to come out or how they want me to feel or think or live my life. These seminars work through emotional duress, manipulation, confrontational FORCEFUL "therapy" and changing you how THEY want you to.
If I'm with my therapist I'm in control. This must be a very foreign concept to you. I'm being built up, not torn down and rewired. Its not about being forced to endure a damn trip of strong emotions and come out being told waht to do. Its me going where I want to go and getting SUGGESTIONS. I can take whatever I want from it.Time is running out. The Indians' botanical knowledge is disappearing even faster than the plants themselves."
--Richard Schultes, Harvard University educator, authority on medicinal plants
On 2004-12-30 03:53:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Nil, none of my comments were towards you. Relax a little. It's common knowledge that music helps fill an aire. Now, are restaurants brainwashing you when you walk in and hear Sade? No, it's about setting the mood. It's a stimulus. You're right insofar that people don't know what is going to happen.
What straight answer do you want? Give me a specific question and I'll give you a specific answer. I'm always willing to do that. We live in about 5% consciousness. The rest is all sub. So do you really think you're always in control? And this, by the way, is basic psychology not program shit.
Humane yes but not necessarily healthy. I understand that you have a passionate stand on your opinions. More power to you. However, don't let it consume you. "teambuilding" may be a catch phrase, however it is also a common term.
On 2004-12-30 18:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
Why don't you go to an AA meeting and then tell me they are brainwashing them. I challenge you to go to a meeting, it is easy just call info for # and the meetings are free.
On 2004-12-30 18:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'm glad i;m not the only one that feels the way i do about you people here. If you had read anything i said, you would know that i have spoke with former students. When one gets transfered to another school they are starting over and am not scared to tell the truth, although you will say they would be tard and featrhered at the new school for telling me anything negative. First of all i would not share anything that was said between me and the new school, i would only tell a parent.The kids i transport get treated like they were my own and i don;t care if you idiots believe that or not. Again there is nothing anyone can say to you to change your mind, and by the way i never heard of straight till this board, i don;t transport kids there. Maybe it is an evil place.
But i feel confident about the schools i go to.
There seems to be just as much support for some of these programs than not on this board????
By the way AA, NA, and CA have saved many many lives without incarciration.Why don't you go to an AA meeting and then tell me they are brainwashing them. I challenge you to go to a meeting, it is easy just call info for # and the meetings are free. I don;t go, but have in the past and there is nothing but love and concern going on. So when you attack that i know you are full of shit, or just an Idiot!
The one that cares
"
On 2004-12-30 18:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
But it's *transient*, or at least you have a lot more say about how much of it you imbibe that goes straight to your gut (or your gonads) and bypasses your brain.
Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)
On 2004-12-30 02:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ginger-- here's what I know about the history of WWASP.
Robert Lichfield started his way in the teen abuse business as a staff member of Provo Canyon School, which was just as abusive back then as it is now. At some point, Lichfield decided to start his own concentration camp.
He met David Gilcrease, who was a Lifespring trainer at the time. Gilcrease developed the seminars, which are, in fact, Lifespring seminars (Lifespring came from Est, by the way), and together they created The Program, and in 1990, they opened their first concentration camp: Cross Creek Manor in La Verkin, Utah.
The old ISAC site hinted at a connection between WWASP and Straight. It said that Lichfield was and still is one of the biggest donators to the Republicans in Utah, and that he attended many Republican conferences-- just like a certain Straight executive (I can't remember his name). I can't remember the exact wording used, but that page suggested that that Straight exec taught Lichfield some of the elements of a successful, highly abusive treatment cult (such as the level system, use of parents for fundraising and recruiting, etc.), which Lichfield later incorporated into WWASP. "
Perrigaud
The tactics in the seminars are ones that have been used in different situations. By this I mean that a lot of corporate "team building" and "excellence training" have the processes we used in the seminars.
Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.
--Winston Churchill
On 2004-12-30 21:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ginger, Niles, whoever - WHO CARES HOW IT WORKS? It works for anyone that CARES enough about their life to do the tough stuff to get past whatever got them in the mess they were in. The past does NOT have to equal the future unless you want it to - in other words, if you are in your "safe" place and are too afraid of what it's like on the other side of what's comfortable, whether it's working or not, you'll keep asking about other's experiences over and over again until you decide to just let it go and do something different, or not.
As someone once said - Analysis paralysis! Stay stuck in your crap, it's not my problem. It's YOUR life and your choice.
"
Everything in moderation, including moderation.
Mark Twain
On 2004-12-30 22:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Timoclea - you have a lot of "book" knowledge"
On 2004-12-31 07:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
" And if i did only see them for once a week, allot of kids that was for 8 years once a week, you kind of get close to kid in that time just a little.
You don't know me and you never will.
No matter what i say i'm the eveil one.
Tell that to the hundreads of kids i coached and transported.
You are so judgemental of things you know nothing about!!
I am finished with you bone heads. You will say, that i am stoping because i am starting to feel quilty and you are getting to.
You see i can see now how all your minds work,
I will continue to make a difference in many kids and parents lives.
Wheather you think so or now. It does not get to me. So good luck in your endevours, how feble they might be. The one that cares
Bureaucracy defends the status quo long past the time when the quo has lost its status
--Laurence J. Peter
On 2004-12-31 00:37:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Anonymous, no I never did see a girl get restrained for no reason. "
Fear is the parent of cruelty, therefore it is no wonder if religion and cruelty have gone hand-in-hand.
--Bertrand Russell, British philosopher, educator, mathemetician, and social critic
On 2004-12-31 05:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
Sure kids have rights, but when they start doing drugs, having sex, cutting and failing school and showing no regard for thier parents, then something has to be done to help this kid and if it means sending them to a boarding school then that is the parents right. So the kid has the right to do all these bad things and not have thier life affected by it. Well if that were the case you would be looking up stats on youth deaths, because they would rise dramatically. Your son has been arrested 3 times is that enough to make a decision to send them away?You are the brainwashed. Not us. The one that cares
By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. Eighty percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled, despite the fact that we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago.
--Vin Suprynowicz
On 2004-12-31 06:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Relationship? you talk to him once a week, you hardly see him? wow that is the great relationship I want with my child, get a grip"
Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
On 2004-12-30 21:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Want to talk about "REAL" brainwashing? How about MTV, commercials, magazines, movies, etc,, that depict a sexy woman as thin, perfect make-up, perfect hair, perfect teeth, eye candy. This is what I call brainwashing because the viewers take it as fact and strive to be "just like them." Ever see the downside of trying to do that? Bulemia, anorexia, cutting, drugs, suicide? What happens when these kids can't live up to what the media says they should be?
Public schools and AD/HD? These kids are brainwashed into believing they aren't good enough, smart enough, strong enough to make it without meds or therapy.
It's beyond my comprehension who you guys can slam something that can finally get through to these kids that they don't have to be like the media thinks they should be
and that is COMPLETELY, 100% for THEM and THEIR success.
Thank the Powers that BE that there are media personalities that do whatever they can to change that attitude and belief. Starting over, Oprah, Dr. Phil, Pat Croce and old re-runs of "Higher Ground."
Yea, I believe my son would have been "deadorinjail" so stop repeating your same old, same old rebuttal.
Obviously you don't believe in divine intervention and how GOD works through people to make this happen in the physical world.
I made my mistakes as a parent, but I would have been a bad parent if I HADN't done anything and stood by being a victim to the crisis and let my son die or ruin his life in ways that you don't seem to have experienced.
I won't defend other programs or their "model" because I can't.
I'm sorry some of you were abused or hurt mentally or physically by the programs you were in.
Very few of any of you on this board actually know WWASPS.
I came here a while back to try to understand the WWASPS haters and I see right through most of them.
I understand the folks like Ginger that were traumatized by the programs they were in. I understand the parents that were victims to their spouses. I understand the competitors that WWASPS won't pay for their referrals, I understand those that just want parents to keep their child at home. I wanted so much to keep my son at home and you have NO idea the trauma it caused for me to admit that I couldn't do it alone. I cried for months prior to and months afterward until I began my own inner work. You can say or think anything you want, but having WWASPS support really did save my family in more than breath.
Fuck you and your judgments for something you can never understand.
No, I didn't agree with the whole process 100%, but I would have never put my son in harms way, he was doing that for himself. Giving him his "rights" We wouldn't have the relationship we have now, based on trust and respect, that we have now.
Though I don't see him much, he's away at school,
we talk at least once a week and I never forget to tell him I love him and I'm proud of who he is.
I did NONE of this, he did it and though he hated being in a program, he tells anyone that ever wants to know that without it where he sees he would be and it was, the at the core, the only thing that would have gotten through to him.
On 2004-12-31 08:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I had to write one last thing, because it just goes to show that you are not reading what i write. Kids were not locked up for 8 years. These are kids I coached at youth sports club, not at boarding school. Such an idiot! And i never said it was my kid that had been arrested 3 times, it was an example. See how you twist things, all of you. Read something before you respond and make yourself look like more of an idiot than you are. The one that cares"
On 2004-12-31 06:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Relationship? you talk to him once a week, you hardly see him? wow that is the great relationship I want with my child, get a grip"
On 2004-12-31 07:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You are an Idiot!!! I'm done with you people, i'll just let you all live out of reality and leave you alone. You don't know me and you never will. No matter what i say i'm the eveil one. Tell that to the hundreads of kids i coached and transported. I coached kids and wahtched them grow up in front of me, maybe it was once a week, or 5 days a week in after school and summer camp. You see i did it all. And if i did only see them for once a week, allot of kids that was for 8 years once a week, you kind of get close to kid in that time just a little.You are so judgemental of things you know nothing about!! I am finished with you bone heads. You will say, that i am stoping because i am starting to feel quilty and you are getting to. You see i can see now how all your minds work, you are twisted now in your beliefs and i am tired of trying to convince you. So i will stop and that is the only reason. I will continue to make a difference in many kids and parents lives.
Wheather you think so or now. It does not get to me. So good luck in your endevours, how feble they might be. The one that cares"
On 2004-12-31 16:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2004-12-31 07:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You are an Idiot!!! I'm done with you people, i'll just let you all live out of reality and leave you alone. You don't know me and you never will. No matter what i say i'm the eveil one. Tell that to the hundreads of kids i coached and transported. I coached kids and wahtched them grow up in front of me, maybe it was once a week, or 5 days a week in after school and summer camp. You see i did it all. And if i did only see them for once a week, allot of kids that was for 8 years once a week, you kind of get close to kid in that time just a little.You are so judgemental of things you know nothing about!! I am finished with you bone heads. You will say, that i am stoping because i am starting to feel quilty and you are getting to. You see i can see now how all your minds work, you are twisted now in your beliefs and i am tired of trying to convince you. So i will stop and that is the only reason. I will continue to make a difference in many kids and parents lives.
Wheather you think so or now. It does not get to me. So good luck in your endevours, how feble they might be. The one that cares"
One that Cares - This is the tactic that is used when the truth is told. They twist it, read things into it that aren't there and piss you off so you will go away and stop saying positive things. "
Yes that is why my service is very important, so we can try to get these kids the help they need.
On 2005-01-01 07:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"By the way i ran away at age 15 when my mom told me i was going to boarding school and Yes that is why my service is very important, so we can try to get these kids the help they need. Jails and death are not an option. I could have easily been killed as a run away. I was lucky!
The one that cares"
For something that has spread with all the forethought of kudzu, the Internet isn't half bad."
-- Newsweek, 2/27/95
On 2005-01-01 10:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"One more thing I can only assume the parent is right and %99 of the time they are. Every now and then i get kid that maybe does not need such a strict enviorment, but than again most of these kids are masters at manipulation and I have not lived with that child for 15 or 16 years and can only believe it is the plan of someone greater than all of us for this child to go through what ever they will go through.
I bieliev a plan has been made for each of us and there is nothing we can do to change that.
Religions are all alike; founded upon fables and mythologies.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
One more thing I can only assume the parent is right and %99 of the time they are.
Every now and then i get kid that maybe does not need such a strict enviorment,
but than again most of these kids are masters at manipulation and I have not lived with that child for 15 or 16 years
and can only believe it is the plan of someone greater than all of us for this child to go through what ever they will go through. I bieliev a plan has been made for each of us and there is nothing we can do to change that. By the way I am not that religous although it might sound that way, but i do believe in god.I don;t go to church. The one that cares"
They came with a Bible and their religion- stole our land, crushed our spirit... and now tell us we should be thankful to the 'Lord' for being saved.
--Chief Pontiac, American Indian Chieftain
On 2005-01-01 11:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You guys always say the same thing, just in a different way. Just let all the troubled youth run wild, there won;t be any problems at all.
All the parents are wrong, ya right."
"Now, I'm a walking dead man," ... "And what bothers me is that I'm dead because I tried to help the kids. And it's all the fault of all those people over there at the DEA." [Dead Man Talking]
--Ben Guillory
I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
On 2005-01-01 15:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
But my company does have at least one trained counsler on each job, they are the lead.
The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization.
--Sigmund Freud
It's obnoxious to ask law enforcement to follow the law. That's insulting to every cop.
--John Lovell, lobbyist for the California police chief's association
Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1500 years.
--John Adams, U.S. President
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-01-01 23:35 ][ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-01-01 23:36 ]
-- John F. Kennedy (1917-63), U.S. Democratic politician, president. Speech, 13 March 1962, the White House.
On 2005-01-02 10:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Nihilanthic wrote:
...If anyone kidnaps me I totally plan on showing as much respect as is necessary until I can put a knife in their throat.
***********************************
Up until this time I thought he was just an angry young man. Now it's apparent there's something much scarier going on here.
"
On 2005-01-02 10:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-01-02 10:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Nihilanthic wrote:
...If anyone kidnaps me I totally plan on showing as much respect as is necessary until I can put a knife in their throat.
***********************************
Up until this time I thought he was just an angry young man. Now it's apparent there's something much scarier going on here.
"
So, you're saying that if you were being kidnapped, you would not resist in any way, and just go along with it.
You programmed parents have even lost the ability to protect yourselves. Not surprising-- since you constantly confuse getting hurt and abused with being helped-- but still very sad. "
On 2005-01-02 10:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-01-02 10:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-01-02 10:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Nihilanthic wrote:
...If anyone kidnaps me I totally plan on showing as much respect as is necessary until I can put a knife in their throat.
***********************************
Up until this time I thought he was just an angry young man. Now it's apparent there's something much scarier going on here.
"
So, you're saying that if you were being kidnapped, you would not resist in any way, and just go along with it.
You programmed parents have even lost the ability to protect yourselves. Not surprising-- since you constantly confuse getting hurt and abused with being helped-- but still very sad. "
I think you're confusing "intervention" with an actual kidnapping:
Main Entry: kid·nap
: to seize and detain or carry away by unlawful force or fraud and often with a demand for ransom"
On 2005-01-02 10:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Nihilanthic wrote:
...If anyone kidnaps me I totally plan on showing as much respect as is necessary until I can put a knife in their throat.
***********************************
Up until this time I thought he was just an angry young man. Now it's apparent there's something much scarier going on here.
"
I was born a heretic. I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.
--Susan B. Anthony, U.S. reformer and suffragist
On 2005-01-02 12:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"...But these kids to become like family, i've seen it.
It was very touching the 2 boys not only gave each other a hug goodbye, but also gave hugs to me and my partner and thanked us for treating them so well.
We were together for about 16 hours, before we seperated.We stayed in a hotel for about 6 hours after driving about 7 hours.
The hypothalamus is one of the most important parts of the brain, involved in many kinds of motivation, among other functions. The hypothalamus controls the "Four F's": 1. fighting; 2. fleeing; 3.feeding; and 4. mating.
-- Psychology professor in neuropsychology intro course
Harmlessly passing your time in the grasslands away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
you better watchout,
there may be dogs about.
I've looked over Jordan, and have seen.
Things are not what they seem.
--Roger Waters 1977
Save our planet; it's the only one with chocolate!
--Andi, domestic goddess
The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.
-- John Adams, (1772)
On 2005-01-03 03:54:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"If a person goes into these "mind altering" seminars and says they were brainwashed then that person wasn't mentally strong. Brainwash? There's only so much brainwashing a person can do to another. It may last a little bit, but if that person isn't subject to it for years and years they'll eventually snap out of it. I refuse to think that people are that weak. If you personally were to go into these seminars do you think that you are so weak of a person that you would be brainwashed into conforming to their ways? Who ever said that they were the end all? I never did. I still don't say that they are the end all. I don't agree with everything. It's so easy to blame others. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-03 03:55 ]"
On 2005-01-03 03:48:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Actually Niles there are cameras in CCM. I don't know about the other locations. I didn't say that extreme was ok. Damn you're stubborn. You hear what you want to. Or maybe I didn't word it right. What I meant to say was that you could put one kid in the corner for coloring on the furniture and he would understand that it's not ok. Whereas another kid you might have to take away the tv. I didn't say go ahead and beat one sensless and the other not. Common now, don't dramatize everything I say. "
On 2005-01-03 06:17:00, Perrigaud wrote:
" That's as bad as saying religion is full of brainwashing.
Please, if anything it has helped (not entirely) keep you and your kids safe from who I was. You would have hated to cross my path. "
On 2005-01-03 05:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I believe they only have OP in jamaica now, all the others have switched. All they do in the other schools now is have them sit in a room ith staff and other kids that are in trouble, untill they are ready to go work.They call it intervention room now.No OP unless you go to jamaica and then you still need to really screw up to be in thier."
On 2005-01-03 06:17:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"No. Wrong. I am not weak. If I was I'd blame everything on the program and say I had no control.
I didn't give in.
Please, if anything it has helped (not entirely) keep you and your kids safe from who I was. You would have hated to cross my path. "
On 2005-01-03 05:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I believe they only have OP in jamaica now, all the others have switched. All they do in the other schools now is have them sit in a room ith staff and other kids that are in trouble, untill they are ready to go work.They call it intervention room now.No OP unless you go to jamaica and then you still need to really screw up to be in thier."
If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
On 2005-01-04 04:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
Also you should all watch the movie Thirteen. If you have not seen it it will go into this particualr problem for you to see and others that young girls go through. The movie is based on a true story. It is a hard movie to watch, but well worth it. The one that cares
All religions have been made by men.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
On 2005-01-04 11:38:00, Deborah wrote:
"
They use the same MO, right down to telling parents to ignore their kids complaints (manipulation) and report them immediately to staff so they can 'handle it'.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
--Plato
On 2005-01-05 21:24:00, Crazy Mac wrote:
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
--Plato
It is criminal to steal a purse. It is daring to steal a fortune. It is a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases
--Schiller (1759-1805)
I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind and keep them shut by force.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
On 2005-01-06 02:52:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"The reason for such high emotion is for support from others who have been there. Plus being in the program one gets pretty emotional very easily. In the real world we aren't as willing to expose our feelings and emotions. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-06 02:53 ]"
On 2005-01-06 07:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
One of the big things we learn in both the program and the seminars is that family won't get upset or uncomfortable when we are having some struggles. "
On 2005-01-06 07:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
One of the big things we learn in both the program and the seminars is that family won't get upset or uncomfortable when we are having some struggles. "
I believe that when I die I shall rot, and nothing of my ego will survive. I am not young, and I love life. But I should scorn to shiver with terror at the thought of annihilation. Happiness is none the less true happiness because it must come to an end, nor do thought and love lose their value because they are not everlasting.
--Bertrand Russell, British philosopher, educator, mathemetician, and social critic
In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a trade unionist. Then they came for Catholics, and I didn?t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
--Protestant minister Martin Neimoller
On 2005-01-06 18:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
Parents have the right to be parents and make decisions for their child, until they are an adult. Don't like it, sorry. Those decisions, for the most part, do NOT include withholding love or support.
As far as sharing stuff in or out of a program:
I wouldn't share with my pool playing, dart shooting co-worker about my great yoga class, nor would a person in therapy share that with anyone other than a good friend or family member.
People can usually sense who would be open or not either before they start talking or within seconds of talking.
Don't laugh when you leave this courtroom, thinking you have beat the system because you have looked these things up yourself. We are going to get you down the road.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.
-- Anonymous
On 2005-01-07 07:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"THey have to maintain an A or B to pass."
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright
If you believe that people cannot be trusted to govern themselves,
then can they be trusted to govern others?
--Thomas Jefferson
On 2005-01-07 18:40:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"Um ok, those photos of kids off campus are just clipart or just photographs! Note the disclaimers at the bottom of the websites about how it may not represent blablabla. Some pics from model agencies or whatever dont really cut it.
These "workshops" (seminars) I've seen plenty of proof of from the people who gave detailed writeups about it.
Sorry but clipart on a webpage and your stories about the seminars really dont cut it.If you believe that people cannot be trusted to govern themselves,"
then can they be trusted to govern others?
--Thomas Jefferson
Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul alike.[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-01-08 01:01 ]
-- John Muir
On 2005-01-07 22:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
" ::ftard::
This is a possible scenario:
A parent (typically mom) finds info on a website about a school in sunny Jamaica. Sends "Johnny" via paid escorts against his will to the island BM facility. "Johnny" is 15, and will not see mom and/or dad until he complies with the BM agenda. Just so happens a year goes by, mom and/or dad have not yet been to Jamaica, as "Johnny is still at level 1 and not allowed to see his parents. Besides, they trust the website, family reps and fellow parents that go to seminars and are assured that their son is just fine. They may even find it somewhat frustrating yet humorous that their son is a frequent visitor in OP. Another year goes by and well, "Johnny" saw some light and is now "working" that program. It takes at least a year or so to master that task so now he's 17 and is progressing through the levels but will not be graduating before he is 18. Since his life has been full of abuse and mindraping bullshit for the last couple years, he wants to leave, come home and try living a "normal" life. WHOAH!!! The parent has decided that "Johnny" will not come home, he must be flown to a city at least 1500 miles from away, oh, and the parents moved in the meantime anyway so he wouldn't know where they are, let alone his belongings they trashed as per BM rules... Either way, how/why in the hell can a REAL parent, you know, one who loves their child, do this? It's the norm at the BM places. There has to be some way shape or form that this type of policy is illegal. The whole idea is FULLOFSHIT. Whoever came up with this is bound to go to hell in a handbasket.
Sick, plain sick. You said $30? I bet there's many kids that don't even get that much money, and some don't even get the customary plane ride. :flame: :skull: :skull: "
On 2005-01-08 08:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-01-07 22:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
" ::ftard::
This is a possible scenario:
A parent (typically mom) finds info on a website about a school in sunny Jamaica. Sends "Johnny" via paid escorts against his will to the island BM facility. "Johnny" is 15, and will not see mom and/or dad until he complies with the BM agenda. Just so happens a year goes by, mom and/or dad have not yet been to Jamaica, as "Johnny is still at level 1 and not allowed to see his parents. Besides, they trust the website, family reps and fellow parents that go to seminars and are assured that their son is just fine. They may even find it somewhat frustrating yet humorous that their son is a frequent visitor in OP. Another year goes by and well, "Johnny" saw some light and is now "working" that program. It takes at least a year or so to master that task so now he's 17 and is progressing through the levels but will not be graduating before he is 18. Since his life has been full of abuse and mindraping bullshit for the last couple years, he wants to leave, come home and try living a "normal" life. WHOAH!!! The parent has decided that "Johnny" will not come home, he must be flown to a city at least 1500 miles from away, oh, and the parents moved in the meantime anyway so he wouldn't know where they are, let alone his belongings they trashed as per BM rules... Either way, how/why in the hell can a REAL parent, you know, one who loves their child, do this? It's the norm at the BM places. There has to be some way shape or form that this type of policy is illegal. The whole idea is FULLOFSHIT. Whoever came up with this is bound to go to hell in a handbasket.
Sick, plain sick. You said $30? I bet there's many kids that don't even get that much money, and some don't even get the customary plane ride. :flame: :skull: :skull: "
How about making little "Dickey" responsible for HIS choice be there? Say, little Dickey was making life miserable at home, you know making up his own rules at home that didn't include cleaning his room - like breaking curfew, drinking, doing drugs, breaking things in the house, skipping school, etc. Say, Little Dickey didn't want to go anywhere to remove himself from tearing up the household and himself. Say, Llittle Dickey knew the rules at the "program" and decided that he was going to break them over and over again. Say Little Dickey knew what would get him out of there, and didn't think enough of himself to get better.
So mom and dad still remember what is it was like when he was home, decided that if he wasn't going to make an effort to change. they decide they don't want him at home after he turns 18 - after all, Little Dickey knows he would be better off on the streets and is an adult that thought he knew it all PRIOR to going ther and can now do as he pleases, yet again.
So, in reality, it isn't about the parents, it's about Little Dickey and being responsible for himself and what he's chosen to do with his Little Dickey life. "
On 2005-01-08 02:55:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Niles,
Somehow I don't think that you would be satisfied. I don't think you'll ever be satisfied. Oh and if you weren't paying close attention it wasn't just me saying that we did get to experience the outer world. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-08 02:55 ]"
None of Nature's landscapes are ugly so long as they are wild.
-- John Muir
The only voluntary urine sample they'll get from me is a taste test
--Bumper Sticker
On 2005-01-07 21:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
And why don't you believe the ones that have good to say?
The function of the press is very high. It is almost holy. It ought to
serve as a forum for the people, through which the people may know freely what is going on. To misstate or suppress the news is a breach of trust.
--Mr. Justice Brandeis
Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones
Just because you do not take an interest in politics, doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you.
PERICLES (430 BC)
On 2005-01-08 19:34:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"Wow, we agree on something. Less harm from these 'teen help' programs!
That would be reform and regulation, and the regulatory bodies doing their jobs!
Imagine that.
However, it does mean a lot less kids would end up in the programs, and these money making businesses would be a lot more specialized, a bit more costly (Requiring professionals) and have a lot less revenue (less people locked in with parents paying for it). So, naturally, the 'industry' will fight tooth and nail to make sure we dont ruin their profits.
I apologize about how I come across, but I am just a little fed up with the rather large amount of bullshit that comes along with the programs as of right now. A 25+ year history of abuse, suspicion, and questionable secrecy is RIDICULOUS.
I'm just not exactly a trusting person right now.Just because you do not take an interest in politics, doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you."
PERICLES (430 BC)
Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits.
--Dan Barker, author and former evangelist
I. Behavior Control
1. Regulation of individual?s physical reality
a. Where, how and with whom the member lives and associates with
b. What clothes, colors, hairstyles the person wears
c. What food the person eats, drinks, adopts, and rejects
d. How much sleep the person is able to have
e. Financial dependence
f. Little or no time spent on leisure, entertainment, vacations
2. Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals
3. Need to ask permission for major decisions
4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors
5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques- positive and negative).
5. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails
6. Rigid rules and regulations
7. Need for obedience and dependency
II. Information Control
1. Use of deception
a. Deliberately holding back information
b. Distorting information to make it acceptable
c. Outright lying
2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged
a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio
b. Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members so busy they don?t have time to think
3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Information is not freely accessible
b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what
4. Spying on other members is encouraged
a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership
5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution
And suffering is not a badge of honor. Experiencing tyranny does not deserve a bow or a kiss. The honor is in removing the stumbling stone. The honor is in the impolite destruction of tyranny through honest, powerful dialogue - not etiquette. Not political correctness.
Maximus
Preacher man don't tell me heaven is under the earth; you don't know what life is worth;.......If you know what life is worth, you will look for your's on earth.
--Bob Marley
On 2005-01-12 08:42:00, chi3 wrote:
"Thanks,
I appreciate ALL opinions. I always make my own decisions the best I can based on the information I have. I try very hard to find out all the facts. I don't know if there is anything mentally wrong with my daughter, but she is not like other kids I know this for sure. She has avery high i.q. but makes poor judgements on her behavior. She was never left with a babysitter or out of my care except school. I worked in her classes from K-3. She doesn't know why she lies, or even seem to realize she does. She appears to have no morals,values, or any of the beliefs of our family. I appreciate the suggestion of the 2nd opinion. Good idea. I also will continue to read all the info I can, past or present. She is at CSA. Has anyone else been there, or had a child there?"
A drug is neither moral nor immoral - it's a chemical compound. The compound itself is not a menace to society until a human being treats it as if consumption bestowed a temporary license to act like an asshole.
--Frank Zappa
Innocence implies the ability to restrain from the initiation of aggression, and to question those who don't.
Sorin Cucerai
< If it's just you, time away and just time to grow up will help her and, hopefully, she's tough enough to not be seriously broken by "the process".
On 2005-01-13 01:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"wow! I wasn't expecting so much, thanks. My husband thinks the seminars are crap...for adults. He thinks my daughter will get a lot from them. She has went to Orientation, and we spoke with her on Christmas Eve and she said she likd it. Yes, she lies, How do I know they didn't make her say it? Because she has been saying whatever she has wanted back in forth in her letters, in her journal, and in the phone call. I was surprised. I thought that wasn't allowed. Apparently they don't seem too care to much about that, anymore. I think they eally only started having big expectations of them there when they reach level 3 and beyond. Mostly there like where, you'll know when there ready and so will we. Timoclea, she is apathetic to others and cold,but there are a few people she become "obsessive" about. She thinks its funny to hurt others, sees it as no big deal unless it is a big deal, then just seems really uncomfortable. Loves Pets, small chidren, disabled people, or those not quite quick, seeks out thrills and dangerous situations, continouosly.Not sure if that's all or if I expressed it correctly, let me know, I will try to re-word. "
On 2005-01-13 01:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"wow! I wasn't expecting so much, thanks. My husband thinks the seminars are crap...for adults. He thinks my daughter will get a lot from them. She has went to Orientation, and we spoke with her on Christmas Eve and she said she likd it. Yes, she lies, How do I know they didn't make her say it? Because she has been saying whatever she has wanted back in forth in her letters, in her journal, and in the phone call. I was surprised. I thought that wasn't allowed. Apparently they don't seem too care to much about that, anymore. I think they eally only started having big expectations of them there when they reach level 3 and beyond. Mostly there like where, you'll know when there ready and so will we. Timoclea, she is apathetic to others and cold,but there are a few people she become "obsessive" about. She thinks its funny to hurt others, sees it as no big deal unless it is a big deal, then just seems really uncomfortable. Loves Pets, small chidren, disabled people, or those not quite quick, seeks out thrills and dangerous situations, continouosly.Not sure if that's all or if I expressed it correctly, let me know, I will try to re-word. "
People everywhere enjoy believing things that they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know.
BROOKS ATKINSON (1894-1984), Once Around The Sun, 1951.
Hands that help are far better then lips that pray.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
On 2005-01-14 01:04:00, chi3 wrote:
"I sincerely want to thank everyone for their time. I am amazed that you all have responded with so much thought. I did as you suggested. I read tons of info at isaccorp, and I am seriously appalled at what I found. How in the world can this be so unregulated?? My nail salon has more regulations than this! I called the ATTY Gen. office, stated board of ed., child protective services, etc. they couldn't tell me anything other than it is not accredited in the state, credits do not transfer, and that their was no open litigation concerning the school. I want to know, if I do go up to get her out, how do I do it? Will they give me a hard time? My husband IS concerned, he looked into a REAL boarding school yesterday, but he says until we have a plan in motion on where to take her, he doesn't believe she is in imminent danger. He also wants to know how come he has met and heard of so many kids that have been through the program that are doing well. I countered that some people do well when brainwashed. I believe that is so. I am just not sure if that is a good idea for my daughter. I know I am not going to be. My daughter picks the worst people to be friends with. She was very involved with the gothic group, the gay group, the kids with serious issues, who are very confused. She says she likes people with more problems than she, so that she can focus on theirs, not hers. Unfortunately she gets too involved and they pull her down. For the one who cares: I have no problem with you doing your job. I still say that lies with the PARENTS. I just hope that if you do this job you are not one of the few that I know who have been abusive to children. That is outrageous that these companies hire people who have arrest records, for any reason! Some for DUI and some for previous child abuse. I hope if you do this job, you do it with a conscience!!! I cannot tell you how much I wanted to physically harm these damn people who have abused these children with no recourse. SICK,SICK,SICK! May you all roast in HELL!"
On 2005-01-14 03:44:00, chi3 wrote:
"i am working on that as we speak. i am not worried about the money, they can keep the shit. i want my kid back! i need to know if anyone has had trouble getting their kid out. do i need to take the police with me? child protective services? i have full legal custody."
You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough.
--Aldous Huxley, author
On 2005-01-14 06:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
" Just remeber the opposite is happening here they will stop at nothing to get you to take your kid, and if you do they will look at it as a victory for this site and the ones who are only acting on heresay.
The one who cares"
MOST important lesson I could ever teach them is to TRUST YOUR GUT. It's never failed me when I've really, really listened to it.
"The FARC is part of the history of Colombia and a historical phenomenon", (President Pastrana) says, "and they must be treated as Colombians". ... They come and ask for bread [aid from Washington], and you give them stones.
Robert White is a former American ambassador to Paraguay and El Salvador, and former No. 2 man with the U.S. Embassy in Bogota, is president of the Centre for International Policy in Washington D.C.
Robert White
On 2005-01-14 13:34:00, chi3 wrote:
"sorry about spelling, syntax, etc. very tired."
"...In general, it's just an overall sign in America that there doesn't seem to be as much respect for authority figures, and that's a bad trend. It just strikes me that people can say whatever they want to and get away with it, and that's not good."
--But David Murrell, exec. dir. of the Florida Police Benevolent Association
It (the Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care.
Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young, DOJ/DEA
A student burst into his office. "Professor Stigler, I don't believe I deserve this F you've given me." To which Stigler replied, "I agree, but unfortunately it is the lowest grade the University will allow me to award."
--Professor Stigler
Marijuana clearly has medicinal value.
Thousands of seriously ill Americans have
been able to determine that for themselves,
albeit illegally. Like my own family, these
individuals did not wish to break the law but
they had no choice.
--Lyn Nofziger, former deputy chairman of the Republican National Committee
India Indicas, Mr. Peabody?
-- Sherman
On 2005-01-21 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't know but the last kid that i transported who was 15 pointed to a gas station where he said he had sex with his girlfriend in the bathroom. The girl was 14. I think that is a shame and also disgusting in a gas station bathroom. I think Chi is not far off. Girls don't think a blow job is sex anymore, it's just like another base for them. The one who cares"
T'is an ill wind that blows no minds.
--Syadasti
Everything in moderation, including moderation.
Mark Twain
On 2005-01-21 23:09:00, chi3 wrote:
"I have stayed home and raised my daughter almost completely by myself since she was born. She and I have always been extremely close. She is not at the children's prison because of any little thing, it was lots of little and big things. I repeat, I did not know this place was a hell-hole!!! I was led to believe it was just a strict place for them to cool down and think about what they wanted to do with their lives, get ahead in school, and talk out their problems. Well, know I know differently. I know what my daughter did and didn't do, some she told me, some I heard on the phone, some in instant messages, some in notes and letters, and some from her friend that want her safe. She has a real problem with sex. She is not just fooling around a little. She is obssessed. Especially with gay sex and kinky sex. She is very compulsive. That's why we had been seeing psycologist for years. The problem is, she has no morals. No regrets. She has had sex in the school bathrooms, dressing rooms, bus for band trips, etc. When we took her out of school she was the one planning a massive orgy for about 25 of her friends with lots of drugs. This goes geyond just regular sex and drugs stuff in high school. I know, I did it , too!! I couldn't get her to open up with the doctors. She either lied to them or refused to talk to them. The school kept calling me telling me what was going on, trying to keep it quiet. Well, it got to be common knowledge. I just wanted to try to save her from all of that. I didn't freak out and get hysterical, just didn't know what else to do."
On 2005-01-22 03:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
i picked up a 15 year old girl, and her entire room had been writen all over the walls by her and her friends. Stuff so sexual not teen should even know about. The parents found dildos and used condoms in thier basement. The girl was also doing drugs.
On 2005-01-22 06:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To the person that thinks they can take my inventory.
Our society becomes more and more open sexually, while that is great for adults, it is not for the kids. The Internet lets kids see porn and that is where they are getting thier sexual knowledge. I did not see a porn magazine until i was 16, and did not see a porn movie until i was 19. While the kids of my generation where just as curious about sex, they did not have it on the scale it is happening today and at such early ages. Too many kids are having sex too early these days.
Also I get along with these kids because, not to toot my own horn but i am allot hipper than most transporters.
On 2005-01-22 03:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Niles get over i am very over your immature pokes and insults directed towards me by you. Get a life. You have allot of deep anger, you need to get thereapy!!! This boy might have been lieing. I am not advocating to send teens away just for sex, but example i picked up a 15 year old girl, and her entire room had been writen all over the walls by her and her friends. Stuff so sexual not teen should even know about. The parents found dildos and used condoms in thier basement. The girl was also doing drugs. How would you fell if your daughter had such disrespect for you as to do that to her room and also the poor girl had no idea that she was giving away her most precious possession, her viginity.I won't even get into what i read on that girls wall. The last boy was not sent away because of sex by the way. I mentioned for all of you to watch the movie Thirteen, no one replied? Has anyone seen it? You all should.
niles i will no longer respond to anything you post to me. The one waho cares"
On 2005-01-22 08:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The parents did see it happening and the girl would respond with fuck off.
So you can take your cult speak and put it where the sun don't shine asswhole. The one who cares"
On 2005-01-22 08:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
They are ginen too much freedom and the parents are not involved in thier childs life enough.
On 2005-01-22 08:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This is STUPID. I just talked to my daughter about the movie. I asked her if she felt that it was an accurate portrayal of a 13 year old (she's 17 now). She said UNEQUIVOCABLY....NO. Yes, there were some FEW exceptions when she was in middle school, but VERY FEW. Again, some good lessons can be learned from it, but DAMN people.....you're acting like it's a fucking documentary!!!!"
On 2005-01-22 10:04:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Yeah whatever. Notice how I said maybe? Maybe not?
On 2005-01-21 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't know but the last kid that i transported who was 15 pointed to a gas station where he said he had sex with his girlfriend in the bathroom. The girl was 14. I think that is a shame and also disgusting in a gas station bathroom. I think Chi is not far off. Girls don't think a blow job is sex anymore, it's just like another base for them. The one who cares"
Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth.
--Mohandas K. Gandhi
The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.".
--George Washington, Revolutionary War General and U.S. President
On 2005-01-22 10:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"By the way someone on a back post said something about the author of the movie. One of the 2 girls that star in the movie co-wrote it with her mother or step mother, but it was based on that girls experience.
On 2005-01-22 05:45:00, chi3 wrote:
"I have seen the movie thirteen, have it on DVD. My daughter thinks it's a hoot. I didn't just ditch my child! I thought I was getting help for her that she wasn't getting here at the psycologist/psychiatrist. I thought she might do better with a consistent setting with no distractions from the people she was hanging around with. Well, guess what? She actually has had some breakthroughs on her feelings toward those people and how she feels about getting therapy and really trying to work at it. Do I think the program did that? No. Did I get lied to about the whole program by the program and ed.con's, and other parents? YES! She is coming home today. Whether they like it or not. I admit I made a mistake, not because I didn't care, just fell for B.S. because I wanted to believe someone, somewhere might be able to help. "
Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
On 2005-01-22 05:45:00, chi3 wrote:
"I have seen the movie thirteen, have it on DVD. My daughter thinks it's a hoot. I didn't just ditch my child! I thought I was getting help for her that she wasn't getting here at the psycologist/psychiatrist. I thought she might do better with a consistent setting with no distractions from the people she was hanging around with. Well, guess what? She actually has had some breakthroughs on her feelings toward those people and how she feels about getting therapy and really trying to work at it. Do I think the program did that? No. Did I get lied to about the whole program by the program and ed.con's, and other parents? YES! She is coming home today. Whether they like it or not. I admit I made a mistake, not because I didn't care, just fell for B.S. because I wanted to believe someone, somewhere might be able to help. "
Come the millennium,
month 12,
in the home of greatest power,
the village idiot will come forth to
be acclaimed the leader.
--Nostradamus
Every man has a property in his own person.
This nobody has any right to but himself.
The labor of his body and the work of his
hands are properly his.
--John Locke
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins; all of them imaginary.[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-01-29 22:56 ]
H.L. Mencken, 1923
On 2005-01-29 21:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"As I have said ,it is the fact that I was where most of these kids are now, is why i am good at what i do. Not because of my any drgrees.
The one who cares"
On 2005-01-30 07:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-01-29 21:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"As I have said ,it is the fact that I was where most of these kids are now, is why i am good at what i do. Not because of my any drgrees.
The one who cares"
Ya know...no one is denying that you are "good at what you do". Obviously you are very good at kidnapping kids and carting them off to be incarcerated. You seem to be very good at that "job". THAT, oh kidnapping one, is the problem."
To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them...
-- Richard Henry Lee, 1787
On 2005-01-30 11:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Check the law"