Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 10, 2004, 10:26:00 PM
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Would anyone like to share info they have on WWASPS paying hush money?
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wwasp is one of the leading contributors to the republican party to shut them up and get support for them..o jeez..Bush is a republican..
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http://www.thestraights.com (http://www.thestraights.com)
http://www.opensecrets.org (http://www.opensecrets.org)
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
--James Madison, U.S. President
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actually...
http://www.opensecrets.org/sitesearch/t ... bmit=Go%21 (http://www.opensecrets.org/sitesearch/texis.exe/webinator/crpsearch/?db=osdb&query=teen+help&submit=Go%21)
hmmm.
BTW, for by politician type in sembler and you get:
http://www.opensecrets.org/bush/ambassadors/sembler.asp (http://www.opensecrets.org/bush/ambassadors/sembler.asp)
:roll: Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
Mahatma Gandhi, My Autobigraphy, p. 446
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Narvin Lichfield gave a $10,000 illegal donation to the campaign of the president of Costa Rica.Then when Dundee Ranch was shut down - he called the pres and asked for a favor.
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Robert Lichfield gave a $30,000 campaign donation to Marty Steven's after he purposefully kept the legislature from voting on a bill that would have made the teen programs in Utah a little safer (not a lot). It would have impossed fines for violations of rules and regs. :flame:
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My husband worked in an adminstrative position for WWASP for a long time, and nobody was ever paid off for anything. They have nothing to hide. WWASP is dedicated to helping teens and their families. I also worked for WWASP, and never saw anything that would need to be covered up. There was no abuse.
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WWASP recently paid off some politicians in NY, so that the state will stop its investigation of Ivy Ridge. WWASP bribes anybody who's willing to be bribed, so that WWASP's gulags will stay open. It's no secret that they have a lot of money-based connections in Jamaica, too.
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Aren't rumors fun. It's all hearsay.
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Rumors? Heresay?
THE WEBSITE UP THERE HAS THE GOD DAMN FACTS YOU TWIT.
ITS SOFT MONEY DONATIONS. ITS FACT. THE GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTED IT ITSELF.
GOD DAMMIT WHAT IS YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM? What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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People still under the influence of having had their brains 'washed', who have been conditioned, do not comprehend well... unfortunately. They live in la la land.
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What's yours? My problem is that everyone has a sad story. What's the point in complaining and disecting? Twit. That's not nice. Besides name one thing on this earth that isn't corrupt. The world is evil. That doesn't mean that you can't live a fulfilled life.
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La la land huh? Sure. Why not. We've all been brainwashed this way right. Please. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2004-12-22 01:17 ]
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So, theres no point in holding these businesses acountable for their abuses and preventing it from happening again? Theres a LOT of points in complaining and disecting!
Its not okay to do this bullshit. Its not okay to hurt people. They certainly didnt let YOU off easy in those programs as you let the programs off!
You're full of it. Totally and completely full of it. The program gets off scott free and yet you (while in that program) had to be *PERFECT*. How much do they open their mouths and vent out bullshit about accountability? You forgot already? Need to go back to a seminar because you arent holding everyone to the same standards?
Your double standards, your implication that they dont NEED to be held accountable for their mistakes and whatever they do is okay speaks volumes.When we contemplate the whole globe as one great dewdrop, striped and dotted with continents and islands, flying through space with all other stars all singing and shining together as one, the whole universe appears as an infinite storm of beauty.
-- John Muir
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Nihilanthic - which program were you in? What personal experience do you have other than internet forums or such? Your opinion is based on what?
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ANONYMOUS - THE PROGRAMS GIVE NO SPECIFIC INFORMATION ON WHAT THEY DO AT ALL.
The only specifics are from the testimony of the people in there who had something BAD to say. that says something.
When theres a mystery about their treatment and accusations of abuse, I tend to question it and want to find out the truth. Well, because all I Get is the standard secrecy and generalities, guess what?
I GO WITH THE ONLY SPECIFICS I HEAR!
When we are pleading with foreign governments to stop the flow of cocaine, it is the height of hypocrisy for the US to export tobacco. Years from now, our nation will look back on this application of free trade policy and find it scandalous.
1989 testimony before the US Trade Representative,September 1989
--Surgeon General, Everett Koop
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.---Edmund Burke
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Full of it huh? No not at all. Did I ever say that they should not be held "accountable"? No, things in life happen that are cruel. My heart goes out to the ones that were abused. However, I refuse to give in to your crappy thoughts. The only thing I'm full of is your annoying disdainful thoughts. WWASP never claims to be a complete absolution. If a child comes home and shoots themselves is not the program's fault.
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On 2004-12-23 02:06:00, Perrigaud wrote:
" WWASP never claims to be a complete absolution. "
I beg to differ.
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It *IS* the fault of the program when they enroll teens with any mental illness issue; because the program is grossly inappropriate for a mentally ill person. The nature of the Program; the depravation; hunger; isolation; brutality and over all neglect, will all complicate and worsen most any mental disorder you can name.
Certainly, isn't going to do a suicidal teen any good. I do personally believe you Can blame the program when one of its "students" comes out and then kills themselves. I do believe it IS the Predicable effect of sending an emotionally fragile person into such an environment.
It is an outrage that the program enrolls these kids.
It is an outrage that a Program like this can even exist, as far as I'm concerned.
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Anon,
I beg to differ. Do you really think Christopher Landre shot himself because he had'nt a chance do Graduate the Program? No it was because his parents were planning on returning him to Paradise Cove. Have you ever talked to a kid who had been at Paradise Cove? Dont try and tell me Paradise Cove wasnt a WWASP Program. I have read the book Island Apart.
Then the parents have made a fortune off of the kid's misery. Sick sick sick. May God forgive them.
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Yanno I've yet to see evidence of WWASPS doing jack shit except locking you up, treating you like dirt, and letting you out after you conformed or your parents ran out of money. Whats the amazing therapy and 'growth' and all that other bubbly potpourri-smelling bullshit? Huh? I see the general terms but I dont see them DOING it!
Merry fucking Christmas Perrigaud. I believe that all important matters have to be settled here, not in the clouds somewhere after we kick off.
--Billy Joel, American musician
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You haven't "seen" evidence? Where have you looked besides the internet? Any personal up close and personal face to face?
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If you mean them acting normal after getting out, that doesnt mean shit. That means they survived it.
If you mean asking them for what they did, they never, ever tell anything. I was told they were sworn to secrecy in those seminars.
HHHMMMMMMMMM why am I so suspicious? Oh, like I already said, NO FACTS ABOUT THE 'THERAPY'
Stop repeating the same shit.Theology: The effort to explain the unknowable in terms of the not worth knowing.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher
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Merry Christmas to you too!!! Youre such a happy person. Proof? I got my proof. I'm successful, happy, and hard working. Now, the only "sworn to secrecy" part was that we weren't to talk about what happened with anyone that hadn't been in the seminar WITHIN THE PROGRAM.
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Oh and it's not survival. It's called rising to the occassion that was presented. Again, there were some survivors. But not all so stop generalizing.
HAPPY NEW YEAR AS WELL N! :grin: [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2004-12-24 00:18 ]
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*sigh* Are you dense or just trying to annoy me?
What. Did. They. DO. To. Make. You. "Successfull, happy, and hardworking"?
Clear enough for you?
*groans* Also, not only has that not been shown, but really, nothing is said about what goes on in there at all except by those with something bad to say. How many times have I said this? How many times have other people said it?
Oh, and the seminar secrecy bullshit so they get shocked is yet another complaint I have. Its utterly ridiculous. And guess what? That wwasps kid I talked to would not tell me - and I'm an adult, so I'm definitely not in the program. You gonna share with us what the seminars did? And causing a break down and scaring you into submission doesn't count as therapy!
And yet again, I will repeat, AGAIN, that coallation is not causation. What has the program shown it actually did to make you any way at all? You complain abuot generalizing but I've yet to get detailed ANYTHING!!!
you Momma is a big fat's ________
--Leroy Brown
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On 2004-12-24 00:17:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Oh and it's not survival. It's called rising to the occassion that was presented. Again, there were some survivors. But not all so stop generalizing.
HAPPY NEW YEAR AS WELL N! :grin: [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2004-12-24 00:18 ]"
You talk about rising to the occasion, but you failed to do just that. You were being made to doubt you own judgement, your own view on life, and your own beliefs. You didn't rise to the occasion, you simply surrendered, and took in their belief system instead of your own.
I am not accusing you here. I pity you. I am sure you were a great kid before you were "re-wired", and I hope you'll snap out of it someday. Your posts are so sad. I can imagine how much you must have suffered before they made you believe that what they're doing to you and to others is necessary and good and that you deserve it. And now you post in their defense. This is so sad.
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Yeah great kid. Snap out of what? You people have no idea what kind of person I was. Save your pity for someone who really wants it. No I wasn't a great kid. I was dead inside. I didn't care about anyone or anything. I was that girl in school that went around taking out her anger physically on whomever I felt like it. I was not raised to be this way. I was full of hate. I was dangerous and I've got the permanent record to prove it. The program itself didn't change me. It was more of a decision I made. I was tired of being abusive. Deep down I knew the whole time the harm I inflicted on others as well as myself.
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Dense? No. Try adament. I'll gladly answer any question you have to offer. I'll give you both the positive and negative. I'm sure you'll have a fit with all that I'll tell you. But I'd rather you have all the facts. Go ahead. Ask away. You of all people should know that in this life one is not remembered for all the "good" things they do rather they are remembered for every "bad" thing they do. It's easy to focus on the negative. Nihilanthic, it's not that I don't respect your opinions. It's more of me being frustrated with your lack of complete knowledge on this subject. I'm not calling you stupid. I'm saying that you have all the "bad" information with a twist of dramatization.
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Snap out of what?
WWAS{/LifeSpring mind control.
You people have no idea what kind of person I was. Save your pity for someone who really wants it. No I wasn't a great kid. I was dead inside. I didn't care about anyone or anything. I was that girl in school that went around taking out her anger physically on whomever I felt like it. I was not raised to be this way. I was full of hate. I was dangerous and I've got the permanent record to prove it. The program itself didn't change me. It was more of a decision I made. I was tired of being abusive. Deep down I knew the whole time the harm I inflicted on others as well as myself. "
I knew you'd start going on and on about how horrible you've been before you were sent to the Holy Program that saved your life. I'm not even sure I can believe you on that. So many children are taught to exaggerate whatever problems they had before the Program so they could fit into the Program ideology "I deserved to be sent here" component. So, no, I don't believe you deserved it. I don't believe any child "deserves" to be abused.
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I'll gladly answer any question you have to offer.
You say you'll answer questions, but you never do. Why don't you start with the questions Nihilanthic asked.
I'll give you both the positive and negative.
I don't believe you.
I'm sure you'll have a fit with all that I'll tell you. But I'd rather you have all the facts.
No, you won't. You will tell us what WWASP made you believe about youself and the Program and the way you were treated. WWASP's insane ideology is not facts.
Go ahead. Ask away. You of all people should know that in this life one is not remembered for all the "good" things they do rather they are remembered for every "bad" thing they do. It's easy to focus on the negative.
No one here is trying to focus on the negative. If there was anything positive about WWASP, I'm sure someone would have brought it up by now (and I mean real, hard facts, not the "without the Holy Program I'd be deadorinjail" program lines). You have no idea how great I would feel knowing that these children are safe and that they are being taken care of properly. I would very much like to believe all these abuse stories are lies. But I know better.
WWASP is a dangerous, abusive cult. That is the truth. WWASP uses physical abuse, psychological abuse, humiliation, solitary confinement, and psychological manipulation in orde to break children down, make them feel they are completely alone, that their parents gave up on them, that they are at the mercy of the program. Then, when the child is completely broken, they will acccept anything and believe anything, just to make the pain stop. They will believe they deserved to be abuse, they will believe the program saved their lives, they will believe anything, just to make it stop.
That is the truth about WWASP. Nothing more and nothing less.
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No one here is trying to focus on the negative. If there was anything positive about WWASP, I'm sure someone would have brought it up by now (and I mean real, hard facts, not the "without the Holy Program I'd be deadorinjail" program lines).
Not so. For the not so frequent visitor to this site, I had twins at Dundee. In the original article written on Dundee one of my sons was quoted saying that the program was not all bad and that he did learn some things that had helped him. My other son has never said anything good about the program other than that he met some "good" friends while there.
Well for the one who felt like he did learn some "good things" while in the program, he is doing well. He has gotten his GED, he comes home at acceptable times, he is working and has bought his own car (financing and all), he calls me and checks in on a regular basis, he truely is doing very good. The other, the one who said the only good thing about the program was that he met some "good friends" in the program, he is not doing quite so well. He has not gotten his GED, he started the class, paid to take the test, but decided the night before the test to hang out with "good firends" and did not come home that night and still has not done anything to go about straigtening out the situation.
Does that mean I think he needs to go back? NO. I don't agree with limiting parental contact. I don't think at this point there is a way to make 100% sure, proof positive, "bad" things won't or can't happen in a program. ANY PROGRAM!!! Just as much as I am also not sure 100% sure, proof positve, that my son who is not doing so well is going to "die or end up in jail" because he is not in a program.
For those looking for advice....you are ultimately responsible for what happens to your child while in a program. It is up to you, no one else, to make sure your child is safe. Take responsibilty for you actions and quit blaming others when things go wrong. Isn't that ultimately what you are trying to teach your child?
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On 2004-12-25 07:44:00, Carey wrote:
I don't think at this point there is a way to make 100% sure, proof positive, "bad" things won't or can't happen in a program. ANY PROGRAM!!!
No, but there sure is one good way to reduce the likelyhood. We discuss freely just what these programs are and how they work so that the new prospects for the TOUGHLOVE hategroups will have the chance (if they take it) to get the other side of the story.
So how does it work?
Perrigaud, by what means have you been changed? What happened? What worked? How did it work? Can you explain how and why the seminars were effective? Would they have been less effective if you had had an idea what they were like beforehand? If so, why? I find I get about exactly as much out of lectures, books or other educational material as my level of prior interest and background knowledge. What makes these seminars different?
There is no devil and no hell. Thy soul will be dead even sooner than thy body: fear therefore nothing any more.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
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Ginger you asked, "How does it work?" Here is a better question, "Who says it does work?
I am not giving credit nor discredit to the program for the choices either one of my twins are now making. I simply am saying that one of my sons feels that it did make a difference in his life, for the better. I am not saying that he loved it, nor even liked it, I am saying he said he did learn from it. Example, to have a greater respect for what he has and a greater respect for who he is. How did he get to that point, or better stated how "MAY" the program have helped him to get to that point, by taking away what he did have and by letting him see how others like him were/are behaving. He could see what he did not want to be (kids who were by far much more messed up than he). It was kinda like an in your face experience.
Would I say the experience for him was a good thing? No. Not anymore than I would say it was a good thing for his brother.
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Why doesn't Amber Lee tell us "how it works." She was the one in charge while it "was working" on my boys. Actually, she was so positive about how well the program worked that she helped to keep my boys there against my objections. I had conversations with her while she was the active director at Dundee. For two months as director of Dundee, and while I was objecting to their placement, she stood firm that Dundee was in their best interst. Was she abusing my boys?
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SEXUALLY abusing^^^
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I heard amber likes to play with undeveloped dongs.
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***I simply am saying that one of my sons feels that it did make a difference in his life, for the better. I am not saying that he loved it, nor even liked it, I am saying he said he did learn from it.
Kinda like a 'near death' experience can make one appreciate life more? That's some testimony. Not....
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***I simply am saying that one of my sons feels that it did make a difference in his life, for the better. I am not saying that he loved it, nor even liked it, I am saying he said he did learn from it.
Kinda like a 'near death' experience can make one appreciate life more? That's some testimony. Not....
Neither one of my boys had a near death experience. As a matter of fact neither one of them had anything at all like "a near death experience".
Keep things in perspective, then you might stand a chance of understanding what I am saying about what my boys experienced.
To the anon who said...
SEXUALLY abusing^^^
and I might add, and/or any other kind of abuse. After all she knew my concerns, she knew my fears and she knew my objections. Has she really ever helped anyone, other than herself. Why did she abuse and/or allow others to abuse and yet wait to come out of the closet until things were heating up on Dundee? [ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2004-12-26 06:12 ]
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Carey, I don't think that's exactly what we're asking about.
Anonymous
Kinda like a 'near death' experience can make one appreciate life more? That's some testimony. Not....
Not an actual near death experience, but similar in that it caused him to reevaluate some things. And I think that's pretty much what you're saying.
Trauma is not reliable medicine, though. It doesn't always make us stronger. Sometimes it breaks us.
But when I ask "how does it work", what I'm interested in knowing is the perspective of people who do not view the Program as abusive and who say that it saved their lives. I want to know what they think about how that happened.
I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants.
-- A. Whitney Brown
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Shut it. Check out N's sight and you will see. And yes I was that bad and no I wasn't brainwashed. Records are proof you d.s.! When your 16 year old daughter isn't accepted in any school in the county as well as the two surrounding counties that's a problem. Also, if that daughter has a record as well as the cops being called for domestic abuse (the daughter's the culprit) there's a problem. No I'm dramatizing it. Get real.
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No, you get real.
I understand that you had some serious problems as a teen and have grown up quite a bit.
Now, even though you don't know me from Adam, I'd like to challenge you to grow up just a little bit more.
First, accept that almost none of us are claiming that there *aren't* situations---such as mental illness where the person is unstable and dangerous to self or others where hospitalization is necessary, or even just juvenile delinquency where the behavior is so bad that incarceration is appropriate.
There are maybe an odd handful that would want to shut down all residential treatment, but that's not me, and that's not *most* of the Program-skeptics on Fornits.
Second, accept that if you were actively violent and dangerous (as you've implied with the domestic violence calls), that most people here would agree with you that residential treatment or some period of incarceration (whichever the situation justified) was probably appropriate *for you*.
The third part is where I'm asking you to stretch, and pardon me if I sound patronizing, it's just hard to guage what the *right* tone should be when I don't know you----I'd like to ask you to consider the possibility that *some* kids get sent to facilities in cases where the kid is *not* dangerously mentally ill and *not* violent and *not* in danger of anything much but being a serious pain in the butt for the step-parent he or she doesn't like.
In a lot of cases, and these are the ones that a lot of us critics would *most* like to prevent, you have a stepparent who is willing to pay in the neighborhood of $5k a month just to get to snuggle up to the parent *without* the kid who hates him being an emotionally disruptive pain in their marriage.
And the whole problem with that is that the bio parent has a voluntarily undertaken obligation to the kid and the kid was there first. Personally, I think if the custodial parent marries someone the kid loathes, the parent is the creep, not the kid. Parenthood comes with obligations. I say this as a parent and a veteran of divorce (thankfully a divorce without kids--had our daughter in my second marriage.)
A very bad personal choice is not grounds to make your life easier by institutionalizing your child.
But it is happening. And those of us who are trying to stop it are addressing a *real* social problem---not trying to keep persons like yourself who needed residential care from getting it.
Fourth--the other thorny social problem involved in this industry is that while some children, such as yourself, have apparently been well-served, there are reasonable indications that other children are *not* receiving quality care for their particular problems.
Please understand that the care that was appropriate for your particular problems would *not* be appropriate for a teen with different problems. Delinquency is different from substance abuse is different from mental illness is different from major cognitive disabilities. The various mental illnesses are different from each other. And there are some kids who have more than one challenging condition present, and some who don't.
For the children who *need* residential care, the goal is not to shut all the treatment centers down. The goal is to put inspections and rules and safeguards in place, and put enforcement mechanisms in place, so that there is *good* data on which treatments are best for which kids. We also need good data on how the various facilities are doing at meeting the standards. We need the facilities with some problems meeting the standards to either be brought into compliance or closed.
So the appropriate remedy, for example, for the school where you went might *NOT* be closure.
Instead, the appropriate remedies might be: regular surprise inspections to screen out false accusations from true ones; defined, professional guidelines about which extended family members the kids can write uncensored, unscreened letters to--basically any sober, non-criminal adult relative who would potentially be a fit guardian for children (Even adults who don't like the program are still automatically healthy models of sobriety and personal responsibility--and the kid's bond with even program-skeptic family members helps replace unhealthy friendships with solid long-term ties to family. The pluses *way* outweigh any minuses.); defined intake screening procedures to divert inappropriately placed kids into more appropriate alternative arrangements (like foster care, a relative's care, a mental hospital to be stabilized the right way and then reevaluated, a more appropriate facility if this one's very inappropriate for that problem); training and certification for staffers in the skills they need--like when and how to apply restraint as safely as possible, and the risks of even properly applied restraints.
One of the other possible *benefits* of reforming the teen residential care system would be that if there were safeguards to verify that the teen *needed* to be there, then various forms of federal aid would kick in to help defray the costs for the parents, removing pressure on them to recruit other parents, and removing the pressure for facilities to make inappropriate admissions just to fill beds.
For one thing, federal law requires the state and local authorities to provide each child with a free, appropriate education no matter what the child's problems are and no matter what the child has done.
What that means in practice is that for the schools that either already are in compliance with the prospective standards OR are willing to get in compliance, could get teachers, curriculum materials, and books and other resources to bring the quality of schooling in the facilities up to where it really ought to be.
Get Real---*appropriate* admissions, funding assistance for better education quality, trained and certified professional staffers providing safe, quality care, and diversion of inappropriately placed kids to *appropriate* alternatives would benefit *everybody*.
There are human beings who want to be abusive monsters to other people---but there are relatively few of them in the mass of more or less nice people that makes up ordinary humanity.
The teen residential care industry is dysfuntional, it could be a whole lot better, and it needs help getting reformed to *be* better.
I'm glad you were lucky enough to get good care when you needed it.
*Most* people who have paid attention to this industry, whether they're generally program-skeptics or program-supporters, agree that the industry needs improvement.
In the center, there *is* quite a bit of common ground here. If the programs could get past their knee-jerk responses and work *with* the critics to improve the whole system, a lot of good could be done.
Timoclea
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As I said before, it's not for everyone. And you're right there are those who didn't need to be there. Unfortunate yes. Mental illenesses, never met any of those cases. Unless you call suicidal tendancies to be in that category. Most were extreme cases.
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As I said before, it's not for everyone.
WWASP seems to think differently here. They accept EVERYONE and ANYONE who can pay, no matter what kind of problem they're dealing with. They accept kids who have been court ordered to their facilities for criminal offenses. They accept kids with substance abuse problems. They accept kids with learning disabilities, such as dylexia or dysgraphia. They accept kids with very minor problems, such as not getting along with a step parent or dating a person their parents do not approve of. They also admit kids with mental problems, as proven in many articles and survivors' statements.
These are all very different groups of children with very different problems and needs. But despite their differeing needs, WWASP provides all of them with the same program, and claims, in each and every one of these cases, that the the program is appropriate for the child in question. According to WWASP, their program is for anyone who's got the money, and in some cases, even those who don't.
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I beleive of of the greatest injustices WWASP perpetrates upon families and children enrolled in their Program is the fact they lump all of the kids togeher .There isnt any differationg issuses. My child had been put into isolation with a kid who had sex with the family pet. Outrageous to me. I have since spoken with other kids who went to different facilities who shared similar stories. The severly emotionally disturbed are put with the minor difficult teenager. Sick. Unacceptabe.
If parents had been made aware, we could have made a different decision.
THE MONEY IS THE ISSUSE.
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That is just plain bullshit! I know for fact that they do not accept mentally ill kids, you know those that are violent or can't function without a group. Just another way to scare people into thinking WWASPS schools are full of kids no one wants to be around, including your kid? Nope, not gonna buy it. If a parent isn't honest about the issues and just wants to admit their kid, that could happen, but it wouldn't take long to figure it out and mom and dad are asked to come pick up their child.
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On 2004-12-28 17:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That is just plain bullshit! I know for fact that they do not accept mentally ill kids, you know those that are violent or can't function without a group. Just another way to scare people into thinking WWASPS schools are full of kids no one wants to be around, including your kid? Nope, not gonna buy it. If a parent isn't honest about the issues and just wants to admit their kid, that could happen, but it wouldn't take long to figure it out and mom and dad are asked to come pick up their child.
"
There are many mentally ill people out there who are not violent and who are capable of functioning on their own. That doesn't make them mentally sound or healthy.
WWASP accepts children who suffer from bipolar disorder, clinical depression, self-mutilation, eating disorders, and various other mental problems. That is a FACT that has been well documented in various articles and statements.
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Self mutilation, eating disorders, co-dependancy, and depression are treated through therapy. That was the main reason I was transferred to Cross Creek from Casa. I needed to work on the reasons behind my depression. WWASP does accept these cases. However I am not sure if all those cases went to the therapy based facilities.
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It's not bullshit it is fact!!
I'm not going to lower myself to argue with a brainwashed scammer.
My experience and my child's may have been different than yours,nevertheless it is our experience and it is the TRUTH. Truth is something you are lacking apparently.
It definately is lacking in the Program. From day one I was lied to. To me it is unacceptable.
They will be held accounatable. Remember those words? ACCOUNTABLE, INTEGRITY,HONESTY etc?
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WWASP does accept these cases.
Didn't you just say that you were such a "case", and that that is the reason you were sent to Casa in the first place?...
WWASP will accept any child, no matter what their problem is and what kind of help they need. A child suffering from an eating disorder, which is a recognized mental illness, requires a very different kind of treatment than a child who had sex with the family pet, as the previous poster described, or a child who does not get along with his/her parents, or a child with biploar disorder.
According to WWASP, the Holy Program can cure every and any problem. And that is just one of the reasons parents should be exremely suspecious of WWASP and other program of its kind.
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On 2004-12-29 03:42:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Self mutilation, eating disorders, co-dependancy, and depression are treated through therapy. That was the main reason I was transferred to Cross Creek from Casa. I needed to work on the reasons behind my depression. WWASP does accept these cases. However I am not sure if all those cases went to the therapy based facilities. "
Bipolar disorder is *frequently* initially misdiagnosed as major depression, even by the most well-meaning psychologist or psychiatrist.
I was misdiagnosed that way.
My bipolar cousin is also a cutter--WWASPS would have accepted her having a problem with self-mutilation, and the treatment would have been inappropriate.
That's when there *isn't* a financial incentive to misdiagnose a bipolar kid as a major depressive in order to fill a *very* expensive bed in a very expensive facility.
And of course, there's a financial incentive to ignore any bipolar symptoms or anything inconsistent with a diagnosis that will fill a bed.
Nice try.
Timoclea
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On 2004-12-29 05:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It's not bullshit it is fact!!
I'm not going to lower myself to argue with a brainwashed scammer.
My experience and my child's may have been different than yours,nevertheless it is our experience and it is the TRUTH. Truth is something you are lacking apparently.
It definately is lacking in the Program. From day one I was lied to. To me it is unacceptable.
They will be held accounatable. Remember those words? ACCOUNTABLE, INTEGRITY,HONESTY etc?"
An accountable question? Your kid said he was in a room next to a kid that had sex with the family pet? So...was the kid having sex with your son, or with an animal when they were next to each other? Did your son think he was better than this kid because he didn't have sex with a dog, or whatever it was? In his integrity (which is the same as honesty in a way) did he acknowledge that he would never do that? Great! He learned something about his boundaries.
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The sad thing is that the kid probably (PROBABLY for all those who are going to jump on me for not knowing the facts because I wasn't there) did NOT have sex with an animal. I remember so many of these kids being forced into these perverted "confessions". The more disgusting the story, the more "love" they received for "sharing" it with the "group".
SICK FUCKING MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On 2004-12-29 18:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
An accountable question? Your kid said he was in a room next to a kid that had sex with the family pet? So...was the kid having sex with your son, or with an animal when they were next to each other? Did your son think he was better than this kid because he didn't have sex with a dog, or whatever it was? In his integrity (which is the same as honesty in a way) did he acknowledge that he would never do that? Great! He learned something about his boundaries.
So, by your reasoning, to encourage integrity in our children, we should put them up in a maximum security prison and let them fend for themselves w/ some tough thugs so they'll learn what not to be? The really tragic thing is that I'm pretty sure you actually buy into this bullshit.
"The Libertarian Party is a coalition of those who hold dear the economic freedoms championed by conservatives, yet abandoned by Republicans, and the civil freedoms championed by liberals, yet abandoned by Democrats."
--Rick Root
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That's it, go straight for the negative. If that's what you think I was saying, that's your choice.
Yes, some kids will see what they don't want to be, but more importantly, they will begin to see what they DO want to be. That may have been the beginning of this young man defining his boundaries and getting past judgment to living a different, healthier thinking way.
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To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are."
- Eric Hoffer
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T, you obviously didn't understand what I wrote in response.Misdiagnoses do happen. Sad, but true.
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On 2004-12-29 18:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2004-12-29 05:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It's not bullshit it is fact!!
I'm not going to lower myself to argue with a brainwashed scammer.
My experience and my child's may have been different than yours,nevertheless it is our experience and it is the TRUTH. Truth is something you are lacking apparently.
It definately is lacking in the Program. From day one I was lied to. To me it is unacceptable.
They will be held accounatable. Remember those words? ACCOUNTABLE, INTEGRITY,HONESTY etc?"
An accountable question? Your kid said he was in a room next to a kid that had sex with the family pet? So...was the kid having sex with your son, or with an animal when they were next to each other? Did your son think he was better than this kid because he didn't have sex with a dog, or whatever it was? In his integrity (which is the same as honesty in a way) did he acknowledge that he would never do that? Great! He learned something about his boundaries. "
So, you're saying that that kid had to be kidnapped from his home, abused both physically and mentally, kept in a gulag without any contact with the outside world, and be put in solitary confinement just so he could understand that he does not want to have sex with an animal?
You are so sick. The sad thing is that you seem to believe what you say. I pity your child(ren).
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Anon,
Let's stick to the point. WWASP enrolls some mighty emotionally disturbed children.In fact
I had been in Discovery with parnets whose child was going from Paradise Cove to SCL.Their boy had been at Paradise Cove for three years.This parent shared in Seminar how this child had sodomized the dog.Very disturbed in my opinion.I was outraged this kid was going to the same "boarding school" as my child.I called the family rep,I was assured they would never meet or encounter each other etc. Lie after lie after lie.They met.They were locked in the same room together.Very disturbing behavior on the other kid's part.My son was afraid, very afraid of such a sick child.
Point being Anon, they LIE! They lie often and exceptionally well.
You IMO are an idiot.Like so many of the other brainwashed idiots.
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On 2004-12-30 02:41:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"T, you obviously didn't understand what I wrote in response.Misdiagnoses do happen. Sad, but true."
And a serious problem, a problem that calls out for safeguards to prevent it from happening.
Safeguards that the programs appear to be fighting tooth and nail against having implemented.
Teenagers are not eggs to be casually broken if that is what it takes to generate some sort of Machiavellian metaphorical omelette.
The risks individuals intentionally subject themselves to in their pursuit of their own lives are a very different matter from the risks others subject them to against their will, ostensibly "for their own good."
Seriously mentally ill children do not deserve to suffer in the hell built by your misguided, manipulated good intentions.
There need to be safeguards built into a well defined, well implemented, governmental regulatory process overseeing these facilities---safeguards to ensure that individual kids' diagnoses are independently checked and kids with serious mental illnesses are diverted to real mental hospitals to be stabilized and then released.
A person with a serious mental illness who has horrible behavior when unstable is often more than able to participate in his/her own effective outpatient care after he/she has been stabilized on medication. These children frequently neither need nor deserve the pain and misery and stigma of incarceration in a facility designed to modify the behavior of sane kids who choose to behave in rotten ways (or sane kids who just have a hate-hate relationship with the new stepparent).
Not that most of the *other* kids there need or deserve the mistreatment, either. But at least the sane kids are better equipped to survive the horrible experience with less permanent damage.
Timoclea
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On 2004-12-30 09:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
There need to be safeguards built into a well defined, well implemented, governmental regulatory process overseeing these facilities---safeguards to ensure that individual kids' diagnoses are independently checked and kids with serious mental illnesses are diverted to real mental hospitals to be stabilized and then released.
Here, as you know, I disagree w/ you. I recognize that the intentions behind it are very good, but the actual outcomes are usually not so good.
Just lately, I've had a lot of contact w/ the medical establishment. From all I've seen and heard and discussed w/ various individuals involved in it, they maintain high standards by way of peer review independent of and far more demanding than government oversight. Visit any inner city hospital that's accredited and more-or-less in compliance w/ government standards then go and visit one, public or private, that has a good reputation. You'll see what I mean.
If anything, these people manage to maintain high standards of service despite, not because of, government oversight. And if we have to go through 10 more of those silly fire drills required for JCAHO accredidation, I think someone's gonna snap out! It won't be me, either. Over my lifetime, I've developed an unusually high tolerance for that kind of bullshit.
I think what we need is a social shift from over-dependence on government institutions back to more reliance on well informed, well educated and stable consumer choice.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
--Bruce Lee
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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On 2004-12-29 20:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
Yes, some kids will see what they don't want to be, but more importantly, they will begin to see what they DO want to be. That may have been the beginning of this young man defining his boundaries and getting past judgment to living a different, healthier thinking way.
Of course, since you probably didn't even know this kid existed till you read about him a page or two back, you're just guessing. And, naturally, you're "guessing" that, whatever the actual situation, the Program is, must be, the most positive aspect of it. :roll: And you wonder why people keep thinking your brainwashed?
But lets talk about the behaviors these kids are learning to emulate. The parent who's posting in these threads points out that Program people lie a lot. And they do. They also use coercion as a first line. They are entirely closed minded to any ideas or views that contradict program dogma. They can be quite hostile and threatening to anyone who they view as an enemy of the Program.
Now, take a look around some of these forums. Rather than "go right to the negative", take a look at what some of the more level, civilized and sensible kids and adults are saying about their experience post graduation.
Generally, all of us --whether we conciously resisted the philosopy or embraced it entheusiastically--have had to work through difficult times adjusting to life in the real world where that kind of behavior is "non-working" behavior. First time I confronted my boss over an honest error on my pay check I got fired so fast it made my head spin. I could have done w/o learning that technique for dealing w/ problems.
But look around. Talk to some of these kids (kids to me, anyway) who are graduates, in college or graduated college, successful by any measure and yet who do not view their experience at WWASP, CEDU or other similar programs as having been helpful. Assume for a moment (entertain the though, you don't have to accept it if it doesn't pan out) that these kids' success in school, work, life in general is more compelling evidence of their not being total fuckups (as they're called frequently) than the 'evidence' that they are critical of the Program.
In other words, take it from people who have been there in the first person and who have no particular reason to favor, or not, the Program.
To say the drug war is a failure is like saying the Hindenburg was short a few fire extinguishers.
Carl Hiassen
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T,
I do agree that certain regulations should be set up so these kids don't go to a place they won't benefit from. However, I don't aggree with the "maltreatment" part. I wasn't mistreated.
I'll admit that I am ignorant to the rules of government inspections. I was always under the impression that any type of job was subject to inspections. Am I wrong?
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On 2004-12-31 00:58:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"T,
I do agree that certain regulations should be set up so these kids don't go to a place they won't benefit from. However, I don't aggree with the "maltreatment" part. I wasn't mistreated.
I'll admit that I am ignorant to the rules of government inspections. I was always under the impression that any type of job was subject to inspections. Am I wrong?
"
Yes, you are. WWASP and their kind are completely unregulated. That is why they continue doing what they do.
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Ok. And isn't there any sort of regulation against unregulated facilities? How can they get around that?
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On 2004-12-31 02:13:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Ok. And isn't there any sort of regulation against unregulated facilities? How can they get around that? "
By putting on several masks at the same time. WWASP presents its "schools" as: drug rehabilitation programs, rehab programs for juvenile delinquent, a "behavior modification" program, and pretty much any other name that implies that the facility is a treatment center.
But when the state comes along to take a look, the "treatment center" suddenly become a "private boarding school" which offers an "emotional growth curriculum". If it's a private school, there's not much that the state can do. And if the state can actually do something, then, oops, sorry, we're actually a private treatment center.
Not to mention that WWASP is very much in the habit of greasing the palms of government officials. A recent example is the Ivy Ridge investigation, that was called off because some people in NY got some money from good ol' Lichfield.
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::eek3:: That I didn't know about. Hmm
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On 2004-12-31 03:36:00, Perrigaud wrote:
" ::eek3:: That I didn't know about. Hmm"
And if you believe that, the Fornits brainwashing is beginning to work on you.
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Nobody has to take our word for it. Look it up. Do you see them advertising themselves as treatment centers or schools???
BTW...if they throw religion into the mix there's even LESS regulation.
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Anon,
How convient. Again you miss the point. It is not about my child's boundaries it is about being locked up with a disturbed kid.
I was TOLD in no uncertain terms my child would not be exposed to a kid with such problems. The dog issuse was only a small part of this kid's problems. If I remeber correctly his sister was afraid of this kid too. The mother had shared she had put a alarm on her bedroom door.
during Discovery that weekend, we were all told by the facilitator Bill D, Paradise Cove was NOT a WWASP affiliate. Anyone who is familiar with the web of deceit knows they most definately were. I own a Sunset magazine where Paradise Cove is being advertised with the Teen Help facilities.
Why the lies? Why the deceit? What are they ashamed of?
You need to get real. At least be open to the possibility all is not as we were told .
Fraud, deceit, deception.
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They had nothing to do with High Impact either!
What a pit of lying vipers.
HIGH IMPACT BOOT CAMP
Baja California, Mexico
Dwayne Lee, Admissions Coordinator ?
Parent Resources Hotline
Hurricane, Utah
800-793-5156
[I called their web site number to ask some questions about the Parent Resources Hotline, identifying myself as an educational consultant. The person answering the phone informed me he was only authorized to send a packet of information and did not answer any of my questions. The packet I received included a photocopy of a letter from Dwayne Lee of Parent Resources Hotline, :exclaim: a Sample Daily Schedule for WWASP Programs, a brochure for High Impact, a Video Tape and a brochure for the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs: Casa by the Sea, Carolina Springs Academy, Cross Creek Academy, Spring Creek Lodge and Tranquility Bay. Apparently Parent Resources Hotline exclusively markets High Impact and WWASP programs.-Lon] :exclaim:
High Impact describes itself as a 28 day+ boot camp for defiant teens ?that is well defined and well structured. This experience is designed to help teens replace destructive attitudes and behaviors with new perspectives and direction in their lives. This is accomplished by focusing on the three R?s of Reality, Respect, and Responsibility.? One of their stated goals ?is to help participants gain an appreciation for home and family by learning to take total and complete responsibility for themselves.? They use a ranch setting ?along with the rigors of an authentic military type schedule?.? The typical schedule presented starts with ?Wakeup? at 6:00 AM, and ?Shutdown? at 8:00 PM, including four hours of ?Marching? and six hours of ?Worksheets.? The remaining time is devoted to Hygiene, Inspection and meals. ?Staff members maintain 24-hour ?round the clock? supervision and interaction with participants. They teach values, acceptable behavioral norms and proper respect for authority?.Our ?gender separated? compound? is designed to create an environment with ?minimal distraction.?
The program describes its short-term program as a ?wake-up? call for the teen, that parents can use to buy some time while deciding whether to enroll their child in their long-term program. :exclaim: The audiotape sent with the promotional packet consisted of a number of testimonials by parents and ex-students, mostly, however, apparently referring to the long-term WWASP programs rather than High Impact. A price list was included for the various WWASP programs, but none for High Impact. :exclaim:
Woodbury Reports, Inc. | 7119 2nd St | PO Box 1107 | Bonners Ferry, ID 83805 | 208-267-5550
Copyright © 1995-2004 by Woodbury Reports Inc. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy
TEEN HELP IN THE NEWS
(December 26, 2001) Lou Kilzer, a staff reporter for the Rocky Mountain News, writes of a girl and other children being pulled from a boot camp program in Mexico called High Impact, and alleges the program had deplorable conditions and is closely associated with Teen Help and the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs (WWASP). :exclaim: In a statement released on the Strugglingteens.com discussion Board, Ken Kay, President of WWASP asserts High Impact is not owned or marketed by Teen Help, and the ?article was riddled with blatant inaccuracies and falsehoods.? Lou Kilzer has written several articles in the past critical of WWASP and Teen Help.
:roll:
For those who don't know; High Impact is were they held the kids in dog runs and threatened them with hot cattle prods into maintaining the position. Marched them in endless circles in sweat suites in the mexican sun. Starved them and beat them. All testified to in federal court.
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At one time the Casa website actually described High Impact as 'our High Impact facility' (wish I had printed that page). Later on it went to great lengths to explain that although it took kids from the Casa it was not associated with them in any way.
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Casa by the Sea and Tranquility Bay were shut down, correct? I'm confused.
http://www.alternativeschoolsforteens.com/ (http://www.alternativeschoolsforteens.com/)
http://www.difficultteens-tranquilitybay.com/ (http://www.difficultteens-tranquilitybay.com/)
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Casa was, TB hasn't been closed ... yet!
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Wonder where they refer the parents who contact the Casa website. :???:
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More on the definitive connection between High Impact and WWASP:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=50 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&topic=3053&forum=9&start=50)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=2683&forum=9&start=60)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... orum=9&106 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3066&forum=9&106)
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On 2004-12-31 09:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Wonder where they refer the parents who contact the Casa website. :???: "
Whichever WWASP facility has a place. You can still find advertisements for Paradise Cove and Brightway Adolescent Hospital.
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Did I say I believed it? No. Until I say "Oh I believe you." don't ASSume. I'm simply gathering opinions. What's your's?
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Most of the kids from Casa were sent to Carolina Springs. Does anyone have any specific information on this school? A parent whose kids have attended? Previous "students?" good or bad comments welcomed, but please only stuff that is true, not just opinion.
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On 2005-01-03 01:56:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Did I say I believed it? No. Until I say "Oh I believe you." don't ASSume. I'm simply gathering opinions. What's your's?"
Who are you talking to?? Believed what?
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I was responding to Anon who was under the impression that I was believing everything that was said. I don't I just wanted to gather opinions/ideas/viewpoints/facts/hearesay on the whole subject of how corrupt WWASP is.
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On 2005-01-12 05:33:00, chi3 wrote:
"Most of the kids from Casa were sent to Carolina Springs. Does anyone have any specific information on this school? A parent whose kids have attended? Previous "students?" good or bad comments welcomed, but please only stuff that is true, not just opinion."
Look here:
http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.html#csa (http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.html#csa)
Also look at the WWASP Information Page in that site. And seach this forum-- there's plenty of info available.
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On 2005-01-12 06:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-01-12 05:33:00, chi3 wrote:
"Most of the kids from Casa were sent to Carolina Springs. Does anyone have any specific information on this school? A parent whose kids have attended? Previous "students?" good or bad comments welcomed, but please only stuff that is true, not just opinion."
Look here:
http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.html#csa (http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.html#csa)
Also look at the WWASP Information Page in that site. And seach this forum-- there's plenty of info available."
I have to give this caveat. There are real factual statements of things that have occured at WWASP facilities that were never an intentional part of the Program. I feel the operators are negligent in failing to notice that, no matter how many times this song and dance plays out, those "unintended" events seem to keep happening.
If you go looking around here, there are other (fairly obvious) accounts of things that never happened and are only told as parody. Sometimes it's hard to sort out. I have actually seen program supporters make apologies for saterical statements. That's telling! And really very funny if you spot it. But not particularly useful to you in your situatin. Understand that there is often a lot of resentment leftover from these programs and just pass that stuff by. It's largely inside jokes that you'll never get anyway.
The bottom line truth is that your daughter is somewhere out in Utah in the care of people who have made some pretty unbelievable promises, are taking all your money and who will not allow you to communicate with her. You should go in person and check up on her. Not just the guided tour of the facility, but you and your daughter alone, face to face, over ice cream in town. And ask around town while you're there. Sometimes the locals have a lot of insight.
All we ask is to be let alone.
-- Jefferson Davis (1808-1889): First Message to the Confederate Congress, March,1861.
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thanks ginger for the insight. as you can see i have posted on several other threads to continue to ask for real accounts from people who have been at CSA. CSA is in S.Carolina not Utah. I agree a visit and a sitdown away from the staff is warranted. Unfortunately, by doing so I tip my hand and am no longer able to get any help or answers from the people there until i get her out and make some new plans for her. to buck a rule and go see her is the same as saying you have no faith in the program. they will make it difficult for me and her, i fear. maybe not physically, but who knows what might happen? they are not open to compromise. i feel my best bet is to find out all i can, get my ducks in a row, have an alternate plan for her, and then just go get her.If anyone has actually been at CSA please let me know your experience!
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Oh my god. CSA is a facility of WWASP. I went to CCM and that as well is a facility of WWASP.
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Unfortunately, by doing so I tip my hand and am no longer able to get any help or answers from the people there until i get her out and make some new plans for her. to buck a rule and go see her is the same as saying you have no faith in the program. they will make it difficult for me and her, i fear. maybe not physically, but who knows what might happen? they are not open to compromise.
Do you realize what they're doing? they are keeping you from seeing your own child by manipulating YOU into fearing what might happen if you break one of their rules. YOU ARE HER MOTHER. You have every right to see her, whenever you like. This policy of theirs is a HUGE red flag. Do the right thing and get her own immediately.
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On 2005-01-14 04:27:00, chi3 wrote:
CSA is in S.Carolina not Utah.
My mistake, sorry. Honestly, it all runs together. I think the one in S. Carolina is Narvin Lichfield's facility, isn't it?
I agree a visit and a sitdown away from the staff is warranted. Unfortunately, by doing so I tip my hand and am no longer able to get any help or answers from the people there until i get her out and make some new plans for her. to buck a rule and go see her is the same as saying you have no faith in the program. they will make it difficult for me and her, i fear.
See, that would be enough for me right there! The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright
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Chi:I agree a visit and a sitdown away from the staff is warranted. Unfortunately, by doing so I tip my hand and am no longer able to get any help or answers from the people there until i get her out and make some new plans for her. to buck a rule and go see her is the same as saying you have no faith in the program. they will make it difficult for me and her, i fear.
Ginger:
See, that would be enough for me right there!
Me:
Please Chi - pay attention to this. Ginger is right. This is a major red flag. I know exactly where you are coming from - been in exactly your same spot; but with a boy at Dundee; Knowing I was going to pull, but not wanting to make waves and so cause things to be more difficult.
There is a point when you realize the Program could become very adversarial and you actually have concerns it might be difficult to pull your own kid! To be fair, I had no such problem - but one is definitely aware of the potential for such problems - and as Ginger says - That in itself is cause for serious concern.
One other thing I want to point out - the Program is the Program, where ever it is. There is no difference between how the program operates in Carolina Springs and Spring Creek Lodge or Ivy Ridge or any of the many others. The one exception might be Tranquility Bay - which is extra horrible by all accounts - but the program its self is exactly the same even there.
I do know people who have had daughters in Carolina Springs. They don't read the forums - but they are out there. If you want to write me, I can try and put you in touch with them.
But really, you have all the info you need. CSA is just the same as the rest.
BuzzKill@alltel.net
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no one wants to listen to your ignorance
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Plenty do - but pathetic oneliners from anonymous twits as empty as the space between your ears are ignored.
God is the...refuge of the incompetent, the helpless, the miserable. They find no sanctuary in His arms, but...a kind of superiority, soothing to their...egos: He will set them above their betters.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher
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I agree with Niles
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I suggest that you contact the Dept of Social Services in the town CSA is located. The facts will help with your decesion making.
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I did call Social Services this week. They got back to me yesterday. I spoke with the director of children's services and was told that I would have to petition the state for an order of discovery. She told me she could not legally tell me what the record show until then. I asked her was it true what I had heard that there had been at least 30 complaints filed with the state. I also asked if I was getting to worked up over this, or should I just go with my gut. She said that all she could me was that she was a mother and I wasn't being paranoid, She told me to go with my gut and get her out of there ASAP. She said if I ran into any difficulties when I tried to go get her, to call the sheriff's office, that they were very familiar with that "place." So does that answer anyone's questions? Do you think the people at children's services are making things up? I can't imagine why, could you?
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Write down or record this! You cant use it as proof if its just coming from you!
Ask for a written statement from the Sheriffs office, or Social services on this. Record your phonecalls. Check your laws first tho - in some states there only has to be consent from one of the parties to record a phone conversation.
While you're at it, refer the SS people to ISAC. They might have somthing to share, and they definitely have a lot to learn. What kind of humanism expresses its reluctance to sacrifice military casualties by devastating the civilian economy of its adversary for decades to come?
Henry Kissinger
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Never place blind faith in any program. Even with public schools - let alone private youth facilities. All of the abusive programs ask you to "have faith in the program." They frequently tell parents to "trust us - we know what we are doing and we have helped hundreds of kids." DON'T BELIEVE IT. There are thousands of articles indicating that the WWASP facilities are abusive. They just get away with it in states like Utah, Idaho, Montana, and some of the Southern States because they have less regulations.
Demand to meet with your child - if they do not allow this - then call the police or child protective services and ask them to immediately place your child under protective custody until you arrive. Don't trust a WWASP program - they are all the same and all use the same types of abusive and damaging behavior modification.....
Don't be bullied by them.Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proven innocent.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author
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Chi3--I'm glad you're checking into the risks and making alternate plans for your daughter. You sound like a very level-headed person so I'm pretty sure you'll make the right decisions for your situation and that your family will be okay.
Best of luck with however you decide to handle this very difficult situation. I wish and hope for the best for you and your family.
Timoclea
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FYI In court this past August,during the WWASP vs Pure trial, the director of Carolina Spings admitted under oath, when presented with the documentation from the DOSS, that YES in fact complaints had been filed. Subject matter about a boy with a fractured arm and more recieved at CSA .
Go with you gut not your program training.
I wish I had. My child's fractured arm received from the program spoke volumes. I didnt hear.
Its impossible to correct the mistake once its been made. Dont make this mistake.