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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => News Items => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 01, 2004, 10:35:00 PM

Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2004, 10:35:00 PM

I tried to post under a member name but the forum does not seem to accept my username, not sure why, so please don't think I am intentionally remaining anonymous, if you would like to email me, please request my email address and I will be happy to give it to you.


When I was 19 my parents opted to place me in AARC. They changed their minds at the last minute, and I am so glad they did. It is struggle enough deprogramming myself from Alcoholics Anonymous, I don't know what would have happened had I had to deprogram from a behavior modification program as well.



My mom felt very uneasy the last couple of days before I was supposed to go. I remember shopping in Winners with her and my dad for generic, non-descript clothing (a necessity for entrance), and she flipped. She told me she loved who I was, just not what I was doing at the time. She called the center when we got home and told them I would not be attending. They told her that she needed to understand the ?severity? of my disease, and that it could be fatal. We were disgusted, and grateful that she had made the decision. I love her for it. We have a strong and loving relationship now, and her and I have made that happen.



I am now 27 years old, and I struggle still. I have come to realize however, that so much of my struggles have been a direct result of my involvement with 12 step programs. I have watched most of my hard partying friends simply grow up into fairly well adjusted, productive adults. They did this without the help of AA. I often wonder if I had never been involved with the 12-step racket, would I have just grown up. Instead I spent 7 years of my life feeling even more different than the people around me. I felt like I didn't fit in out here, or in the rooms. I am only now beginning to realize that my problem was never with alcohol, my problem was with me, my self esteem...and I am working on overcoming this so I don't turn to drugs and alcohol as a way to act out. That is what I do, I use to get attention. It is nothing more, and nothing less than this.



I certainly believe that people do have physical addictions to substances, I also believe they can overcome these addictions themselves. I am not negating that AA, or perhaps even AARC has saved lives...I just question what new life these people gain? I am proud to be a strong woman, with strong ideals, and strong opinions I am not afraid to voice. I feel like AA, and programs like AARC stifles the spirit, and the mind. The kids from AARC I saw in the AA rooms seemed entranced. They seemed to be reciting mantras in the room. Witnessing this is actually what helped me decide to distance myself from AA altogether. I remember having lunch with a graduate of AARC, who was a counselor there. I was appalled when she told me my tattoos (I am heavily tattooed), and my "slang" wasn?t really me. Of course they are me. My tattoos tell stories of where I have been, and my "slang" is who I am. Slang, body art, professions, hobbies can all be testament to a persons individuality. I feel so sad when I think of children going through programs like AARC and being stripped of their individuality. I can't help but think there is a lot of talent and beauty being removed from the world because of AARC.



I applaud those who have left AARC and are struggling to reclaim their identity. I am doing the same thing, and find great comfort in knowing I am not alone (as they say in AA) in breaking free of brainwashing. Sure I struggle, I have good days and bad days. I am me though, for the first time in a long time.

Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Antigen on December 02, 2004, 10:52:00 AM
Yeah, some devout practitioner of stepcraft once told my brother that his sense of humor was part of his disease. So my brother spent the next stretch of time trying to be very serious and not make any jokes. Crazy!

Welcome!

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid
of the dark. The real tragedy of life is
when men are afraid of the light.
--Plato

Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2004, 03:43:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-12-01 19:35:00, Anonymous wrote:





I am now 27 years old, and I struggle still. I have come to realize however, that so much of my struggles have been a direct result of my involvement with 12 step programs. I have watched most of my hard partying friends simply grow up into fairly well adjusted, productive adults. They did this without the help of AA. I often wonder if I had never been involved with the 12-step racket, would I have just grown up. Instead I spent 7 years of my life feeling even more different than the people around me. I felt like I didn't fit in out here, or in the rooms. I am only now beginning to realize that my problem was never with alcohol, my problem was with me, my self esteem...and I am working on overcoming this so I don't turn to drugs and alcohol as a way to act out. That is what I do, I use to get attention. It is nothing more, and nothing less than this.





I certainly believe that people do have physical addictions to substances, I also believe they can overcome these addictions themselves. I am not negating that AA, or perhaps even AARC has saved lives...I just question what new life these people gain? I am proud to be a strong woman, with strong ideals, and strong opinions I am not afraid to voice. I feel like AA, and programs like AARC stifles the spirit, and the mind. The kids from AARC I saw in the AA rooms seemed entranced. They seemed to be reciting mantras in the room. Witnessing this is actually what helped me decide to distance myself from AA altogether. I remember having lunch with a graduate of AARC, who was a counselor there. I was appalled when she told me my tattoos (I am heavily tattooed), and my "slang" wasn?t really me. Of course they are me. My tattoos tell stories of where I have been, and my "slang" is who I am. Slang, body art, professions, hobbies can all be testament to a persons individuality. I feel so sad when I think of children going through programs like AARC and being stripped of their individuality. I can't help but think there is a lot of talent and beauty being removed from the world because of AARC.





I applaud those who have left AARC and are struggling to reclaim their identity. I am doing the same thing, and find great comfort in knowing I am not alone (as they say in AA) in breaking free of brainwashing. Sure I struggle, I have good days and bad days. I am me though, for the first time in a long time.



"


I can only speak for myself, and I would never generalise anyone. I did go through AARC. I am in AA. I see AARC graduates with varying degees of success, in and out of AA. As far as it "stripping my individuality", AARC and AA have helped me discover who I am. You mention Tattoos. Both my arms ar covered, as well as my chest and back - and no one from AARC has ever expressed any degree of being "appalled". I am artistic, creative and successfull, and sober for over 10 years. I have had a successful career for years, and have thriving relationships in and out of AA.Tell guys like Noah Levine who wrote Dharma Punx, teaches meditation worldwide, and is heavily tattoed and loves Punk that AA is stifling. I hope you do well, but please, speak for yourself.
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2004, 06:30:00 PM
I don't believe I claimed to be speaking for anyone but myself. I have a right to my opinios, as you do yours. Covered in tattoos, and in AA...in Calgary?? Where have you been hiding out??

Yes, Dharma Punx....

Not only have I read Noah Levine's autobiography...I am aquaintance of his through mutual friends involved in the tattoo industry in California. Many of the people he writes about in his book were people I knew personally, or knew of through close friends of mine. Thanks for pointing it out none the less.

I did not particularily enjoy his book, nor do I particularily enjoy him personally. It is easy to go on a journey of self discovery, and get covered in tattoos when you have a trust fund set up to make it all happen. I digress however.

It always shocks me how easily people will hold someone up as an example or as a role model knowing little to nothing about them. What you know about Noah Levine is what he wanted his readers to know about him.

Yes, it would be dreamy wouldn't it, if one could go from being a perfect bad ass, to a perfect sober buddhist. His book read like a fairytale, because that is what it is.

Try reading Hardcore Zen...I believe it speaks from a more humble, and egoless place.

If you feel that your individuality and your creativity has not been stifled by these rigid and intolerant programs (my opinion)....good for you!! I wish I could say the same for me, but as you gathered from my previous post, I have not had the same experience as you.

I am simply expressing my individualtiy...do you have a problem with that?
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2004, 06:34:00 PM
Oh, and to address your comment about nobody being appalled by your tattoos.

I never claimed she was appalled, I said I was appalled at her reaction to me.

I am happy that you never had anyone tell you your body art, and way of speaking was not you. It made me feel pretty shitty at the time.
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2004, 08:10:00 PM
"I just question what new life these people gain?"
"I feel like AA, and programs like AARC stifles the spirit, and the mind. The kids from AARC I saw in the AA rooms seemed entranced."
 "I feel so sad when I think of children going through programs like AARC and being stripped of their individuality"
"It is easy to go on a journey of self discovery, and get covered in tattoos when you have a trust fund set up to make it all happen"

Judgement & intolerance posed as "opinion" & "expressing my individuality" and "speaking for myself". But hey, at least you don't care what others think of you.

"Covered in tattoos, and in AA...in Calgary?? Where have you been hiding out??"

Hiding out? Hardly. I go to my meeting every week, and have been attending AA functions regularly. The only reason I mention Noah is the fact he is living his life just like anyone outside has the right to. He certainly is not perfect and makes mistakes. As do I. Most people do.

Again, I wish you well, but try not to generalize. Everyone in AA and outside AA has a unique, individual experience. I know plenty of mindless drones outside of AA. But who am I to judge. - Just my "opinion" of course. :smile:
Maybe I'll see you at a meeting some time!
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2004, 09:31:00 PM
I was just making a joke with the hiding out comment....it would have been nice to see someone else that loves tattoos!!

I noticed you copied and pasted some of my statements. Did you notice they began with words like "I feel", or simply just "I". How much more clear could it be that I am speaking for myself? I never claimed these things to be fact...this is just how I feel. Why is this a problem for you?

As for the trust fund comment, that is something that is indeed a fact. Noah Levine was able to travel the world (where he "awoke") using the money from his trust fund. Simple as that.  He stated it point blank in his book. Go back and have a look.
 
Am I personally intolerant to AA, AARC? absolutely. I speak for myself, and nobody else. I have a right to it, and to express myself. There is no posing about it. I spoke my personal truth.

This is what I was talking about in my post. Why do you need to make it out like my opinion is somehow a guise for something else? It is what it is. I found this site and felt grateful that there were others that shared my opinion. I did not come here to attempt to right any wrongs I believe are occuring. Is that what you are here for?

I knew my post would be a sitting duck for someone who doesn't agree with me. All you need to do is say "I disagree, here is why, here is my experience". You don't need to make accusations.  The only judgement and intolerance I have seen here so far has been from you. Labeling me something because I don't share your views is the height of judgementalism in my opinion.

I "generalize" from my own experience. What human being does not assess situations according to their own experience? I am a learning and growing person. Certainly learning from my own mistakes.

You are making a generalization by calling me intolerant based on one post I have written on an internet forum. You don't know me, I don't know you. I don't fault you for it however, as that is what we do. We assess things.

As for seeing me at a meeting. I am not sure why you would write that. Was my post not clear? Were you joking? Were you being smug? Not really clear on that.
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2004, 11:55:00 PM
I stand by what I said - Judgement & intolerance posed as "opinion" & "expressing my individuality" and "speaking for myself".

As far as me being judgemental it is difficult to point out were someone is being disingenuous (sic?) by using statements beginning with "I feel" and "its my opinion" and patronizing or belittling someone else for how they come off in an AA meeting. As far as it only being "my opinion", you seem to find that my statements offend or irritate you, then you should understand that it works both ways. One persons opinion can always be seen as a judgement by others. No one knows your real intentions, they only see your actions.

Do I take offence to someone passing judgement on AARC who has never been through it? You bet. Walk a mile in my shoes first. Your experience in AA is your own, its not for everyone.

As far as Noah traveling on a trust fund - my parents paid for my treatment, and it didn't make it any less meaningful. They also paid for some of my schooling, and same deal.

"You are making a generalization by calling me intolerant based on one post"
"Am I personally intolerant to AA, AARC? absolutely."

Really I was just having some fun, and didn't mean to offend you. You are obviously really bright and my only concern is that too many people write on this board with the intention of making anyone who feels positively about AARC second guess themselves. Provoking and baiting people who are getting on with their lives is silly.

All the best!
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 12:04:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-12-02 18:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I was just making a joke with the hiding out comment....it would have been nice to see someone else that loves tattoos!!


As for seeing me at a meeting. I am not sure why you would write that. Was my post not clear? Were you joking? Were you being smug? Not really clear on that."


Just kidding, geeeeez!
I'm always up for coffee though!
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 01:03:00 AM
the only reason I would have to go for coffee is to see all these tattoos you have talked about...
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 01:31:00 AM
One anonymous said
"Am I personally intolerant to AA, AARC? absolutely. I speak for myself, and nobody else. I have a right to it, and to express myself. There is no posing about it. I spoke my personal truth."

It's good to hear this.  I have a saying that the one thing that I cannot tolerate is intolerance.  And that is what I think  that anonymous is saying.  Everything I have seen and heard of AARC speaks of intolerance and bigotry. But, hey, in these times that's the zeitgeist, especially in Calgary.  So what do you guys think of the Municipal vote declaring the election of Margot Aftergood being declared invalid.   Suggestions of voting fraud in Calgary even involving MLA Hung Pham ?????
Corruption is one of the things I can't tolerate either, and I suspect there's something very corrupt about the fact that AARC now seems to have some considerable support ( to the extent of gaining provincial accreditation) from those wonderful politicians in the Klein Konservative Kabal.)  And now, Heather Forsyth is Minister of Children's Services?  Expect lots more children in care being condemned to "treatment" in AARC without even so much as a hearing.
Seriously, though, any institution that uses the methodology of AARC in violation of every civil rights law in the book should not be tolerated in a free and democratic society, but then, what do I know?
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 02:10:00 AM
To the original anonymous poster...

I liked your post and agree with what you've said. I'd like to point out that I believe AA in calgary has been altered because of the large AARC presence. There has always been so much lingo in AA and in Calgary they've developed new lingo via AARC graduates. And yes, AARC people are speaking a mantra and they don't even realize it! I know I certainly did it for years. What ever happened to people sitting in a room discussing their every day issues helping each other out? Who needs a subject and a reading to get through a day without drinking?

Body modifcation has become a popular way for young people to express themselves and connect with others, even for those who in the long run it ends up being just a phase. I love this movement! I'm also seeing very good things happening with the Straight Edge (sXe) scene! Hearing about the hardcore sXe shows is so encouraging.

I'm glad that you have your independance again; that you're not 12 step dependant.
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 02:37:00 AM
I agree with you. I think part of it is that as big as many would say Calgary is, it is still a small town compared to so many. I don't know if I necessarily agree that AARC has affected all the meetings, it certainly has affected some. My issue is with both AA and AARC regardless. It is all the same for me. I have an aversion to "outside forces" telling people what is right or wrong for them. That is part of my character.
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 08:47:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-12-02 22:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"One anonymous said

Seriously, though, any institution that uses the methodology of AARC in violation of every civil rights law in the book should not be tolerated in a free and democratic society, but then, what do I know?   "


You are correct - What do you know? If AARC is violating civil rights laws call the police, or file a suit. If there is one thing I find difficult to stomach, it is baseless accusations being thrown around. If you are so indignant, then do something! Prove that AARC is such a terrible place in court. So far no one has had the guts to try that.
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 10:44:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-12-02 22:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"the only reason I would have to go for coffee is to see all these tattoos you have talked about..."


Sounds good. You can reach me at demonandmonk@hotmail.com

cheers
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 12:59:00 PM
and you can reach me at ma_petit_chou@msn.com

i am not much of a reacher sad to say....
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 06:40:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-12-03 05:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-12-02 22:31:00, Anonymous wrote:


"One anonymous said


Seriously, though, any institution that uses the methodology of AARC in violation of every civil rights law in the book should not be tolerated in a free and democratic society, but then, what do I know?   "




You are correct - What do you know? If AARC is violating civil rights laws call the police, or file a suit. If there is one thing I find difficult to stomach, it is baseless accusations being thrown around. If you are so indignant, then do something! Prove that AARC is such a terrible place in court. So far no one has had the guts to try that."


Well:
Try this on
Physical restraints
Lock-up without any court order
Duress -- having consents signed under threat.

And besides, the most frequent violators of young people's charter rights are police.  Why would a young person, made to feel fearful, go to the very people they see as supporting their custodians for help only to see it thrown back at them ---SHEESH
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 07:43:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-12-03 15:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-12-03 05:47:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote


On 2004-12-02 22:31:00, Anonymous wrote:



"One anonymous said



Seriously, though, any institution that uses the methodology of AARC in violation of every civil rights law in the book should not be tolerated in a free and democratic society, but then, what do I know?   "







You are correct - What do you know? If AARC is violating civil rights laws call the police, or file a suit. If there is one thing I find difficult to stomach, it is baseless accusations being thrown around. If you are so indignant, then do something! Prove that AARC is such a terrible place in court. So far no one has had the guts to try that."




Well:

Try this on

Physical restraints

Lock-up without any court order

Duress -- having consents signed under threat.



And besides, the most frequent violators of young people's charter rights are police.  Why would a young person, made to feel fearful, go to the very people they see as supporting their custodians for help only to see it thrown back at them ---SHEESH

"


OF COURSE! (he slaps his head) The far reaching, all encomassing conspiracy! The Cops! The Provincial Government! A treatment centre where a provincial crown prosecuter had not one, but two of his kids in treatment! Where a long time RCMP officer had his kid! Where two prominent psychologists had their kid (me)!
And speaking of me - No physical restraints, no duress to keep me there, and I was free to leave any time.
I reiterate - more baseless accusations being thrown around
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 07:46:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-12-03 16:43:00, Anonymous wrote:


OF COURSE! (he slaps his head) The far reaching, all encomassing conspiracy! The Cops! The Provincial Government! A treatment centre where a provincial crown prosecuter had not one, but two of his kids in treatment! Where a long time RCMP officer had his kid! Where two prominent psychologists had their kid (me)!

And speaking of me - No physical restraints, no duress to keep me there, and I was free to leave any time.

I reiterate - more baseless accusations being thrown around"


And we all know that "prominent" people are far beyond reproach.  :roll:  :roll:  :lol:
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 08:05:00 PM
That's it!? Good lord.
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 08:09:00 PM
yeah, that's it.  No point in having a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 09:25:00 PM
oh, I've got both arms alright! now you're making fun of amputees. shame! shame!
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 09:44:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-12-03 16:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-12-03 15:40:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote


On 2004-12-03 05:47:00, Anonymous wrote:



"
Quote



On 2004-12-02 22:31:00, Anonymous wrote:




"One anonymous said




Seriously, though, any institution that uses the methodology of AARC in violation of every civil rights law in the book should not be tolerated in a free and democratic society, but then, what do I know?   "










You are correct - What do you know? If AARC is violating civil rights laws call the police, or file a suit. If there is one thing I find difficult to stomach, it is baseless accusations being thrown around. If you are so indignant, then do something! Prove that AARC is such a terrible place in court. So far no one has had the guts to try that."







Well:


Try this on


Physical restraints


Lock-up without any court order


Duress -- having consents signed under threat.





And besides, the most frequent violators of young people's charter rights are police.  Why would a young person, made to feel fearful, go to the very people they see as supporting their custodians for help only to see it thrown back at them ---SHEESH


"




OF COURSE! (he slaps his head) The far reaching, all encomassing conspiracy! The Cops! The Provincial Government! A treatment centre where a provincial crown prosecuter had not one, but two of his kids in treatment! Where a long time RCMP officer had his kid! Where two prominent psychologists had their kid (me)!

And speaking of me - No physical restraints, no duress to keep me there, and I was free to leave any time.

I reiterate - more baseless accusations being thrown around"


So give everybody wh has ever been in AARC a questionare based on the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms particularly:
 7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.
Search or seizure       8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.
Detention or imprisonment       9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.
Arrest or detention       10. Everyone has the right on arrest or detention

    a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor;
    b) to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and
    c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of habeas corpus and to be released if the detention is not lawful.

Proceedings in criminal and penal matters       11. Any person charged with an offence has the right

    a) to be informed without unreasonable delay of the specific offence;
    b) to be tried within a reasonable time;
    c) not to be compelled to be a witness in proceedings against that person in respect of the offence;
    d) to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal;
    e) not to be denied reasonable bail without just cause;
    f) except in the case of an offence under military law tried before a military tribunal, to the benefit of trial by jury where the maximum punishment for the offence is imprisonment for five years or a more severe punishment;
    g) not to be found guilty on account of any act or omission unless, at the time of the act or omission, it constituted an offence under Canadian or international law or was criminal according to the general principles of law recognized by the community of nations;
    h) if finally acquitted of the offence, not to be tried for it again and, if finally found guilty and punished for the offence, not to be tried or punished for it again; and
    i) if found guilty of the offence and if the punishment for the offence has been varied between the time of commission and the time of sentencing, to the benefit of the lesser punishment.

Treatment or punishment       12. Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 09:46:00 PM
And further:  how many people, having been told they are free to go any time do leave, are reported AWOL, and dragged back? .....
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: velvet2000 on December 03, 2004, 10:35:00 PM
I was denied access to a lawyer or any other outside help. I was not court ordered or given any form of trial. I was denied access to mail, email, or telephone and had no way of accessing any outside help. I was not allowed to physically leave the building, and those who tried to walk out of the building or host homes were physically restrained (usually by having everyone present sit on the person). I was subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. Such acts of this punishment would be:

Being kept isolated from society and loved ones.
Denial of ability to continue education or work.
Denial of efficient sunlight and exercise.
Denial of proper movement (being forced to sit in only one position with feet flat on the floor and hands straight down aside, unable to move at all)
Being denied water.
Being denied to speak of my religious beliefs, attend religious functions, or read material about my own religion.
Being forced to stand in one place for an extended time period.
Being denied access to doctors while suffering serious illnesses.
Suffering verbal degradation and hostility.
Being denied proper clothing to keep warm outdoors and inside unheated area's of the building.
Denial of time alone, even under supervision.
Being forced to partake in regressional therapy for extended periods of time.
Forcibly being subjected to graphic discussion of sexual abuse, rape, prostitution etc, and being forced to partake in this discussion (as a child).  

I list these things because they disobey basic human rights, however they are certainly not the worst things that I witnessed or experienced in AARC.
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: BigJoshuaP on December 11, 2004, 09:33:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-12-03 19:35:00, velvet2000 wrote:

"I was denied access to a lawyer or any other outside help. I was not court ordered or given any form of trial. I was denied access to mail, email, or telephone and had no way of accessing any outside help. I was not allowed to physically leave the building, and those who tried to walk out of the building or host homes were physically restrained (usually by having everyone present sit on the person). I was subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. Such acts of this punishment would be:



Being kept isolated from society and loved ones.

Denial of ability to continue education or work.

Denial of efficient sunlight and exercise.

Denial of proper movement (being forced to sit in only one position with feet flat on the floor and hands straight down aside, unable to move at all)

Being denied water.

Being denied to speak of my religious beliefs, attend religious functions, or read material about my own religion.

Being forced to stand in one place for an extended time period.

Being denied access to doctors while suffering serious illnesses.

Suffering verbal degradation and hostility.

Being denied proper clothing to keep warm outdoors and inside unheated area's of the building.

Denial of time alone, even under supervision.

Being forced to partake in regressional therapy for extended periods of time.

Forcibly being subjected to graphic discussion of sexual abuse, rape, prostitution etc, and being forced to partake in this discussion (as a child).  



I list these things because they disobey basic human rights, however they are certainly not the worst things that I witnessed or experienced in AARC.





"



Being kept isolated from society and loved ones.| Did you not see your family Tuesdays and Fridays?--then Every night  go home after step 3?

Denial of ability to continue education or work.| On level three you are allowed to?

Denial of efficient sunlight and exercise.| I guess the weight room, pingpong table and handball court never saw any use from you...

Denial of proper movement (being forced to sit in only one position with feet flat on the floor and hands straight down aside, unable to move at all)|  Uh huh, simliar to public school... sitting, usually with your feet on the floor, hands on the desk... you poor thing!

Being denied water.| Im sure after the 20th time inside of 5 minutes that you complained for it...someone eventually said "enough is enough"

Being denied to speak of my religious beliefs, attend religious functions, or read material about my own religion.| You weren't denied it, people just didnt want to hear it.

Being forced to stand in one place for an extended time period.| This might seem as a low blow...but is it not better than where you were standing for hours on end BEFORE you went into treatment?

Being denied access to doctors while suffering serious illnesses.| And what would those be?

Suffering verbal degradation and hostility.|Give examples... I am curious... were you being a bitch and someone told you to quit it?

Being denied proper clothing to keep warm outdoors and inside unheated area's of the building.| Why didnt you put on a jacket?

Denial of time alone, even under supervision.| Well God forbid you get enough time alone to commit suicide... we all know no one would EVER do that...

Being forced to partake in regressional therapy for extended periods of time.|You never had to say anything... think about it.

Forcibly being subjected to graphic discussion of sexual abuse, rape, prostitution etc, and being forced to partake in this discussion (as a child).  |Is that something you would want to hold on to? Really...
Jess I think you are digging in the dirt to find ANYthing you can to complain about the place.. and rightly so... I guess... I have grievances too, here they are:
1.)Was not able to smoke until level 3
2.)Couldnt phone my ex-girlfriend for phone sex purposes
3.)Wasnt allowed to drink while in treatment
4.)They fed me too well
5.)They worked me through some of the worst things I did/went through in my life
6.)Wouldnt allow me to stay in contact with the people I did drugs with/drank with/kept me sick
7.)Made me have a conscience about the things I did that were hurtful/unethical.
8.)Forced me to reckon with my past
9.)Stopped me from either dying/going to jail
10.)Continuously encouraged me to aim high, do my best at life and succeed.
11.)Gave me the best friends I could ever have
12.)Gave me the ability to stay sober for 8.5 years and help others.
You can go ahead and call me brainwashed... but that in itself would hold no ground... I have been graduated from there for 7 and a bit years... if there was to be any unwashing of my brain...it would have happened by now. Granted that I am likely not the model graduate... I believe in and back that place 110%. Get away from the politics people... Why would I blame any failures that I have encountered in recovery ...on the place that gave me the opportunity to have them in the first place? Hey, I was turned down by the University of Oklahoma for football...damn that aarc place. :roll: the simple fact that I could apply at a div one school was amazing.. When I get finished a science major... if I dont score well on the Mcat.. maybe it will be Aarcs fault too? Yeah, it was a hard program...but it produces quality results, it did for me and it did for a most everyone I can think of that I talk to.

I think a few of you suffer from a condition called "Cranial-Rectal Intisusseption" but don't fret... you are in the company of politicians and trhe ignorant everywhere (regarding the condition)

I will never devote this much typing time to this site ever again... I dont think. [ This Message was edited by: BigJoshuaP on 2004-12-11 06:41 ]
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 11, 2004, 10:24:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-12-11 06:33:00, BigJoshuaP wrote:



Being kept isolated from society and loved ones.| Did you not see your family Tuesdays and Fridays?--then Every night  go home after step 3?

Seeing your family from across the room 2 nites a week does not constitute a visit, especially when monitored by an oldcomer so the child can't express him or herself.  And even after they go home, if they talk about any negative effects the program may be having on them the parents tell staff, staff stands them up and confronts them and then they're usually set back for daring to question the program at all.



Quote
Denial of ability to continue education or work.| On level three you are allowed to?

Yeah, AFTER your academics have been screwed because of being out of school for that amount of time.

Quote
Denial of proper movement (being forced to sit in only one position with feet flat on the floor and hands straight down aside, unable to move at all)|  Uh huh, simliar to public school... sitting, usually with your feet on the floor, hands on the desk... you poor thing!


No, in school you don't have to keep your feel FLAT on the floor, you can move or stretch if needed and use the bathroom at sane intervals.

Quote
Being denied water.| Im sure after the 20th time inside of 5 minutes that you complained for it...someone eventually said "enough is enough"


 :rofl:  :rofl:
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: BigJoshuaP on December 11, 2004, 10:38:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-12-11 07:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-12-11 06:33:00, BigJoshuaP wrote:



 
Being kept isolated from society and loved ones.| Did you not see your family Tuesdays and Fridays?--then Every night  go home after step 3?



Seeing your family from across the room 2 nites a week does not constitute a visit, especially when monitored by an oldcomer so the child can't express him or herself.  And even after they go home, if they talk about any negative effects the program may be having on them the parents tell staff, staff stands them up and confronts them and then they're usually set back for daring to question the program at all.





 
Quote
Denial of ability to continue education or work.| On level three you are allowed to?



Yeah, AFTER your academics have been screwed because of being out of school for that amount of time.



Quote
Denial of proper movement (being forced to sit in only one position with feet flat on the floor and hands straight down aside, unable to move at all)|  Uh huh, simliar to public school... sitting, usually with your feet on the floor, hands on the desk... you poor thing!


 



No, in school you don't have to keep your feel FLAT on the floor, you can move or stretch if needed and use the bathroom at sane intervals.



Quote
Being denied water.| Im sure after the 20th time inside of 5 minutes that you complained for it...someone eventually said "enough is enough"



 :rofl:  :rofl:



"
LOL I read maybe three of your arguements...and saw enough...

I never had to sit with my feet flat on the floor.. hands flat on my knees...thats hogshit.

Schooling... LOL don't even...thats such a joke...Ill be going into first year sciences soon. I also know a girl who is contemplating med-school, and countless others working on degrees. yourpoint=moot.

hmm family..you spend 75% of treatment with them...you didnt even spend that much time with them while you were using... but nice try.

Tolerance and understanding? I dont want people yapping religious hogwash at me, nor do I to others... completely valid... keep trying though..

No...really...what serious illness? I saw a doctor 3 times in treatment...even saw a chiropractor once...time for you to find some ground here..

Albeit I do have a LARGE scrotal sack it is quiet sensitive:D ... people get told to shut up and get nailed for being bitchy.. deal with it.

Alone time/Supervision: I had plenty of alone time...I was in treatment close to the time she was... again, more fruitless dirt digging.

Sex/prostitution etc... make a child listen to it? or make a child who participated in that type of behaviour...work on it. It IS what can happen during drug and alcohol useage. For you to say otherwise proves you a fool.

Yeah, I can have those failures...instead of being in jail, or...in the bathroom at a club shitting myself. You have yet to produce anything worthwhile...good luck. heheheh you don't come across as a very insightful person:rofl: [ This Message was edited by: BigJoshuaP on 2004-12-11 07:41 ]  [ This Message was edited by: BigJoshuaP on 2004-12-11 07:46 ]
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2004, 03:57:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-12-11 06:33:00, BigJoshuaP wrote:

in treatment

6.)Wouldnt allow me to stay in contact with the people I did drugs with/drank with/kept me sick

7.)Made me have a conscience about the things I did that were hurtful/unethical.

...Granted that I am likely not the model graduate...


Healthy associates? Ethical behaviour? Now we both know that you have secrets surrounding those areas. Quit kidding yourself, anyone who knew the TRUTH about you would tell you that you're a relapsed AARC-ite, hanging onto a false mask of sobreity and upstanding citizenship. Get honest. :roll:
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2004, 09:27:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-12-12 00:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-12-11 06:33:00, BigJoshuaP wrote:


in treatment


6.)Wouldnt allow me to stay in contact with the people I did drugs with/drank with/kept me sick


7.)Made me have a conscience about the things I did that were hurtful/unethical.



...Granted that I am likely not the model graduate...




Healthy associates? Ethical behaviour? Now we both know that you have secrets surrounding those areas. Quit kidding yourself, anyone who knew the TRUTH about you would tell you that you're a relapsed AARC-ite, hanging onto a false mask of sobreity and upstanding citizenship. Get honest. :rofl:  :rofl: Oh thats gold... an angry anti-aarcist grasping at straws...yet again... I am hardly surprised by that :rofl:  :rofl:
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: BigJoshuaP on December 12, 2004, 09:31:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-12-12 06:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-12-12 00:57:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote


On 2004-12-11 06:33:00, BigJoshuaP wrote:



in treatment



6.)Wouldnt allow me to stay in contact with the people I did drugs with/drank with/kept me sick



7.)Made me have a conscience about the things I did that were hurtful/unethical.





...Granted that I am likely not the model graduate...





Healthy associates? Ethical behaviour? Now we both know that you have secrets surrounding those areas. Quit kidding yourself, anyone who knew the TRUTH about you would tell you that you're a relapsed AARC-ite, hanging onto a false mask of sobreity and upstanding citizenship. Get honest. :rofl:  :rofl: Oh thats gold... an angry anti-aarcist grasping at straws...yet again... I am hardly surprised by that :rofl:  :rofl: "
and I invite you to throw whatever dirt you "think" you have at me... I have nothing to hide. :rofl: But obviously you do...signing on here anonymously and all  :roll:
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: BigJoshuaP on December 12, 2004, 10:48:00 AM
Come on...lets hear it...surely you have SOMEthing... hell, make it up![ This Message was edited by: BigJoshuaP on 2004-12-12 07:48 ][ This Message was edited by: BigJoshuaP on 2004-12-12 07:50 ]
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2004, 10:55:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-12-12 07:48:00, BigJoshuaP wrote:

"Come on...lets hear it...surely you have SOMEthing... hell, make it up![ This Message was edited by: BigJoshuaP on 2004-12-12 07:48 ][ This Message was edited by: BigJoshuaP on 2004-12-12 07:50 ]"
Josh, come on you cant forget those mob ties you have  :rofl: don't even pay attention to this clown, when is your 9 years? May?  :idea:
Title: Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2004, 10:56:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-12-12 07:48:00, BigJoshuaP wrote:

"Come on...lets hear it...surely you have SOMEthing... hell, make it up![ This Message was edited by: BigJoshuaP on 2004-12-12 07:48 ][ This Message was edited by: BigJoshuaP on 2004-12-12 07:50 ]"


 ::troll::