Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 17, 2004, 04:49:00 PM
-
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/dru ... Letter.pdf (http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/drugfact/marijuanainitiative/Open_Letter.pdf)
AN OPEN LETTER TO PARENTS ABOUT MARIJUANA
Did You Know?
Marijuana puts kids at risk. It is the most widely used illicit drug among youth today and is more potent than ever. Marijuana use can lead to a host of significant health, social, learning and behavioral problems at a crucial time in a young person?s development. Getting high also impairs judgment, which can wreak havoc on teens in high-pressure social situations, leading to risky decision making on issues like sex, criminal activity or riding with someone who is driving high. And don?t be fooled by popular beliefs. Kids can get hooked on pot. Research shows that marijuana use can lead to addiction. More teens enter treatment for marijuana abuse each year than for all other illicit drugs combined. This fall, America?s youth will hear a new message about marijuana, thanks to collaboration among federal agencies, public health organizations, educators and concerned parents. The initiative will inform young people that using marijuana has real consequences and can put their futures at risk. It will teach them that the dangers of marijuana are not overblown and must be taken seriously. Most of all, this campaign will dispel the myths about marijuana by concentrating on the facts. Time and again, kids say their parents are the single most important influence when it comes to drugs. So this message needs to start with you. Kids need to hear how risky marijuana use can be. They need to know how damaging it can be to their lives. And they need to begin by listening to someone they trust. To learn more about marijuana and how to keep your kids drug-free, please visit http://www.theantidrug.com (http://www.theantidrug.com) or call 800-788-2800. Then talk with your kids. Together, we can help them separate the myths from the facts. Signed: ? American Academy of Family Physicians ? American Academy of Pediatrics ? American College of Emergency Physicians ? American Medical Association ? American Society of Addiction Medicine ? Child Welfare League of America ? Community Anti-Drug Coalitions of America/ Drug-Free Kids Campaign ? National Asian Pacific American Families Against Substance Abuse ? National Association of State Alcohol and Drug Abuse Directors ? National Center for School Health Nursing ? National Crime Prevention Council ? National Families in Action ? National Family Partnership ? National Indian Health Board ? National Medical Association ? National PTA ? Office of National Drug Control Policy ? The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse (CASA) at Columbia University Office of National Drug Control Policy PARENTS.
THE ANTI-DRUG.
-
Thanks for the propaganda. Now here's some reality based reporting.
The Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs
by Edward M. Brecher and the Editors of Consumer Reports Magazine, 1972
Part VIII
Marijuana and Hashish
Marijuana is the popular name for a plant, Cannabis Sativa, also known as hemp. Marijuana is also the common name of the drug prepared by drying the leaves and flowering tops of the plant. The leaves and tops contain several members of a group of chemicals known as the cannabinoids. Hashish is the drug produced by drying the resin exuded by the marijuana plant. The resin is richer in cannabinoids than the leaves and tops?? one gram of hashish is said to have the effectiveness of five to eight grams of marijuana?? but the potency of both marijuana and hashish varies widely from sample to sample. One of the cannabinoids, delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol or THC, was for a time believed to be the major active ingredient; the role of THC in the marijuana experience, however, is now in question.
Under the name Extract of Cannabis, marijuana was once widely used medically in the United States, and it still has minor medical uses in other countries. though sometimes classed as a hallucinogen (LSD-like drug), marijuana is in fact unique, both chemically and in psychological effects produced. Hallucinogens are not a common effect of the drug, but (like alcohol hallucinations) a symptom of overdose.
Marijuana and hashish are commonly smoked in the United States; they can also be taken orally in foods or beverages. They are not addicting. Neither tolerance nor withdrawal symptoms have been reliably reported. The lethal dose is not known; no human fatalities have been documented
Read on ... http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Lib ... /cu53.html (http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/cu/cu53.html)
It's obnoxious to ask law enforcement to follow the law. That's insulting to every cop.
--John Lovell, lobbyist for the California police chief's association
-
First of all, Marijuana is not a drug. It is an herb. No one has ever died from its use. Many have benefited from its medicinal properties. It is not a gateway substance, leading to use of acutal drugs. There are many working on the legalization of THC for use in kids with so-called ADD/ADHD because IT WORKS much better than methamphetimine-SPEED (ritalin) bigpharma hawks and has NO NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS.
It has never been useful or effective to give kids inadequate or inaccurate information about pot or drugs. They will NEVER trust you to be honest with them. They will smell your fear and notice your ignorance. Zero tolerance has never and will never be effective.
http://www.drugtext.org/library/article ... baum01.htm (http://www.drugtext.org/library/articles/rosenbaum01.htm)
Read Andrew Weil. An interview:
http://www.doitnow.org/pages/weil.html (http://www.doitnow.org/pages/weil.html)
Excerpt:
Weil took what he had learned in his earlier formal and informal research and turned that knowledge to a very good advantage, indeed, arguing that human beings have an innate need for altered states of consciousness and that attempts to eliminate this need--and the personal and cultural expressions of this need--are doomed to perpetual failure.
And anyone who believe the crap in the forgoing message should read Mike Males as well:
http://home.earthlink.net/~mmales/yt-euro.htm (http://home.earthlink.net/~mmales/yt-euro.htm)
American advocates endlessly denigrate our youths for not acting like European youths. Yet, these same advocates don?t criticize American politicians for not emulating European governments? robust social insurance, health care, adult self-discipline, and youth rights traditions. Culturally, America isn?t Europe, they whine. True. So stop comparing our kids to theirs.As the U.S. belligerently hectors the globe on liberty and morality, perhaps we should consider why the Land of the Free is the world?s most amoral dictatorship toward its young people.
http://www.youthtoday.org/youthtoday/males.html (http://www.youthtoday.org/youthtoday/males.html)
When examined, however, the YBRS and vital statistics measures from around the country show that these alleged risky behaviors have little to do with real risks. In fact, in states where more youths smoke marijuana, teens have significantly lower rates of homicide, drunken driving, traffic deaths, fatal accidents, gun deaths and total violent deaths, as well as lower birth rates and less gun-carrying. Teen pot-smoking is heaviest in New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island and Massachusetts, exactly the states where teens are safest from violent deaths.
http://www.fair.org/extra/0011/teen-drug.html (http://www.fair.org/extra/0011/teen-drug.html)
The simple truth officials and the media refuse to discuss: Today's chief abusers of heroin are not kids or minorities, but white middle-agers. DAWN's latest reports show four-fifths of heroin's overdose-death and hospital cases in 1999 were over age 30. Fewer than 1 percent were teenagers; just 5 percent were under age 25.
**********
The War on Drugs is a waste of tax dollars. It is an attempt to capitalize on the inherent nature of humans- the desire to alter their consciousness, which begins to manifest in babies- pacifiers and later spinning until dizzy- the one year olds favorite pass time.
Peddle your fear somewhere else. You won't get to a second page in this thread because you will never find the research necessary to back up the ridiculous position taken in that piece. Fear is a pathetic state of being. Do something about it.
This demonstration of ignorance and fear is exactly why we have teen warehouse facilities today. Get some therapy. Get over your fear so you can have a genuine relationship with your kid. Cause when the day is done- that's all there is and all that matters.
-
From the 'Experts'
http://www.safety1st.org/lets_talk_parents.html (http://www.safety1st.org/lets_talk_parents.html)
ANSWERED BY MARSHA ROSENBAUM, PhD
"Should I tell my kids that I smoked pot in college?" ?Monica, mother of a 17-year-old son and 14-year-old daughter, Palo Alto, California
Dear Monica,
You are not alone in struggling with this difficult and very personal question. Many parents of teenagers today experimented with marijuana when they were in college, even high school. They worry that if they admit to their own drug use, it will send an affirmative signal to their teenagers.
Each family must find their own comfort level in divulging past drug use. However, in the spirit of maintaining an honest dialogue with your teenagers, admitting that you experimented might have a positive effect on your relationship.
You may find that you come across as a more credible source of information if your teens believe you know something, first hand, about what they?re experiencing.
If you have stopped using marijuana, you might explain why, and this may be an important lesson to your kids. What happened in your life to influence your decision?
Some parents feel they have to denigrate their past experiences in order to reinforce abstinence messages, even if they actually have no regrets. I believe this approach actually diminishes parents? credibility because they become less believable to their teens.
"What if a parent thinks that pot is basically harmless, non-addictive, etc., and condones the use of it by allowing kids to smoke it, or by smoking with them?"
This is a very challenging and emotional question. We believe it is crucial to distinguish between morality and actual concrete negative effects. We, as researchers and scientists, do not take a moral position.
There are many parents who believe that marijuana is fundamentally harmless. Usually they have used it themselves without serious consequence. According to Professor Mitch Earleywine, author of Understanding Marijuana (2002), although marijuana is not addictive in the conventional sense of the term, its use does cause problems for approximately nine percent (9%) of users. It is also illegal, putting both adults and their teenagers in jeopardy.
Some parents feel that their teens are safer staying home and avoiding the public use of marijuana, so they allow them to use it in the house. Many of these parents are convinced that their teens will use marijuana anyway, and would prefer the safety of their home to the street. The same attitude is also true for alcohol, and the belief is that it?s better to stay home than drink and drive.
When teens get older, there are those adult marijuana users who believe that, like sharing a beer, there is little harm in smoking with their college-age sons or daughters.
Every parent has to make their own decision about whether to use marijuana, whether to allow their teens to use it in their home, and whether to smoke with them. They should know that while they are keeping their kids off the streets, they may also be contributing to increased use and putting themselves and their teens in a very vulnerable legal position, since marijuana (and alcohol) possession and use is illegal.
ANSWERED BY DR. RODNEY SKAGER
"I have had problems with substance abuse in the past. How can parents with substance abuse problems (past or current) talk with their kids?" ?Father, Oakland
It is difficult to tell our children about things we are not proud of or are embarrassed by. However, those experienced with alcohol and other drug (AOD) problems are in a unique position to speak to teens with authority. One way to frame the discussion is, using Dr. Andrew Weil?s metaphor, to talk about people's "relationships" with AOD. People can have positive and negative relationships with AOD. Our job as parents is not only to describe good and bad drug effects, but also to teach our children when a person's relationship with a substance(s) is not healthy or safe.
Parents can use their experiences to illustrate the progression of an unsafe relationship with AOD. By including the positive experiences you may have had, you will be better equipped to demonstrate how, over time, you began to see how your AOD use and your relationship to the drug was interfering with having a fulfilling and happy life. Warning signs of a bad relationship with AOD include:
When you use a drug when you are working or going to school.
When you tell yourself you will not use and you find yourself using anyway.
When your relationships to friends, teachers, parents or other important people in your life are impacted by your AOD use.
When a majority of your time or money is being spent finding, buying, and using drugs, as well as being hung over as a result of drug use.
Be as honest as you can. Try not to close the door on future discussions by issuing ultimatums or loading your teen with a lot of guilt. Let them know that you hope they do not choose to experiment with AOD, particularly the drugs you yourself had difficulty with, but if they do, assure them that they can count on you to be there for them, no matter what.
-
I do agree that ADD meds do not work and give kids an excuse by thinking they are damaged in some way and making the pharmaceutical companies, and others, very, very rich. Smoking weed helps? How? Can a teenager really learn to work with their ADD by masking it with "herbs?" Knowing the effects, how can you say that? Yes, it calms them down to the point of lacking motivation and not experience the challenges in their life. Behavior modification (learning cause and effect,anger management, impulse control, etc.) has a life long positive effect. Are you saying that being high day in and day out is a better alternative?
I would like to understand your point of view on this.
-
Interesting message that just arrived in my mailbox:
Isn't it funny how material things and consumables have themselves become the "opiate of the masses" -- 'literally'! By literally I refer to recent research suggesting that refined carbohydrates, and especially refined carbs in combination with saturated fats, (i.e. about 80% of the typical American's diet), have distinct
opiate-like effects on the brain, and when withheld from addicted animals produce a withdrawal syndrome that is neurochemically indistinguishable from opiate withdrawal.
(Not to say that there are no differences; only important samenesses.)
Found the research:
http://www.eatingwell.com/articles_reci ... ction.html (http://www.eatingwell.com/articles_recipes/nutrition/sweet_addiction.html)
Given that the number one killer is Heart Disease and 60% of americans are obese- seems we'd be putting our attention on this phenomena, which is a far greater threat to health and well being than smoking pot. Perhaps the government should come out with a War on Fat and Sugar, and declare them gateway drugs.
That about how ridiculous the War on Drugs is.
But no, instead our school lunches have deteriorated to junk food. Sodas and high sugar/fat/chemical snacks are available all day long from vending machines. Families don't eat nutritous meals together any more. The culture is deteriorating. Kids are being blamed for having an adverse reaction to the insanity around them. How wrong is that?
More on the Influence of Food on Behavior:
http://mizar5.com/spillingthebeans.html (http://mizar5.com/spillingthebeans.html)
-
***Smoking weed helps? How? Can a teenager really learn to work with their ADD by masking it with "herbs?" Knowing the effects, how can you say that?
Can one learn to work with their 'ADD' when its masked with speed (ritalin, adderall, etc)? I personally believe that THC is a much more effective and safe alternative. And btw, ADD is not a disease. It is wholely a subjective diagnosis made by observation. No disordered brain chemicals, no heriditary factors. No test to prove its existence. And by labeling a kid ADD, the kid and particularly the parent is off the hook to teach social skills and improve their parenting skills and relationship with their child.
***Yes, it calms them down to the point of lacking motivation and not experience the challenges in their life.
That is not necessarily the case. I knew a young woman who lived with a foster parent who allowed her to smoke every night because it allowed her to focus on the mundane and boring homework she was required to do. I have known others that actually become energetic and creative when they've smoked. The people I've known who get 'down' and 'unmotivated' were dealing with some heavy distress- my observation is that they had very low self-esteem and were basically unhappy with their life. The pot did not cause this. It did provided them temporary relief from constant self ridicule though, and didn't damage their organs in the process.
One person I knew had chronic back pain that surgery didn't repair. He also had low self esteem. Smoking did lift his spirits and provide relief from the pain. Again, I'd rather him smoke pot than get addicted to Oxycontin (sp?)
***Behavior modification (learning cause and effect,anger management, impulse control, etc.) has a life long positive effect. Are you saying that being high day in and day out is a better alternative?
I am all about moderation. EVERYTHING in moderation. I think there is a time and place for just about anything someone wants to do, short of infringing on the rights and well being of another human being. I am not an advocate of BM. It doesn't work long-term. There is a thread on that topic. Scroll down the forum list to find it.
Do you think that all pot smokers are high day in and day out? I do know that 1 in 5 people (conservative) are taking some kind of psychotropic drug with potentially deadly side-effects and which are highly addictive. Do I think a toke or two everyday is better? You bet!
And all the while, the ignorant masses are sitting by drugging themselves with food and legal/illegal drugs, unaware of the deterioration of our culture and unable to act or advocate for something better because they are so removed from remembering what it means to be human. Do any of you notice just how fucked up it has become? Or does everything look just fine to you? Do you think your teens don't see this, and react to it? I believe its increasingly harder for the average person to be in this culture in an unaltered state. Some choose the legal drugs hawked by bigpharma, other prefer the benign natural variety. It should be their right to do so.
-
Given a choice between pharmaceutical meds,street drugs, marijuana or behavior modification, I would choose behavior modification. It does work for those who choose to. Smoking weed is the easy way out. I talk with my kids about drugs, been to a head shop, and I'm aware of what's out there. I chose to become educated. It's a much different thing than when I was a teen.
I agree in the medical uses for marijuana - cancer pain, glaucoma, but not for ADD.
Hey son, lets go smoke some weed together so you can get an A in Science this week and I can get some housework done........
-
Here's another excellent article from Dr. Andrew Weil which should give you some insight into the relative safety of the use of marijuana.
http://deoxy.org/pdfa/marijuana.htm (http://deoxy.org/pdfa/marijuana.htm)
Excerpt:
Since marijuana has no clinically significant action on lower brain centers, compensation can reach 100 percent with practice.
These considerations mean that there are no answers to questions like, What does marijuana do to driving ability? The only possible answer is, It depends. It depends on the person - whether he is a marijuana user, whether he has practiced driving while under the influence of marijuana. In speaking to legislative and medical groups, I have stated a personal reaction to this question in the form of the decision I would make if I were given the choice of riding with one of the following four drivers:
1-a person who had never smoked marijuana before and just had;
2-a marijuana smoker who had never driven while high and was just about to;
3-a high marijuana smoker who had practiced driving while high; and
4-person with any amount of alcohol in him.
I would unhesitatingly take driver number three as the best possible risk. One may wonder how many drivers of types one and two are on our highways. Probably many. But there is some consolation in the fact that persons learning to do things under the influence of marijuana almost always are anxious about their performance and therefore tend to err on the side of overcaution.
There is talk of "Driving While Stoned" laws, meanwhile, we have many unsafe drivers who are taking mind-altering legal drugs on the road, who are much more dangerous.
-
I know the story Deborah's talking about treating ADHD w/ MJ (not isolated THC, but whole herb) Here's some documentation on that. http://www.wamm.org/research.htm (http://www.wamm.org/research.htm)
Note that the kid doesn't know that his pills contain cannabis. His mother and an aunt or grandmother bake and grind the herb and stuff it into gel caps while he's away at school.
As I understand it, whatever this kid's problem, it wasn't imaginary, he has a very real problem. As for being buzzed all the time, any experienced pot smoker will tell you that you have to put it down once in awhile or you won't get a buzz anymore. Whatever. Maybe he is feeling quite euphoric but it doesn't seem to be interfering w/ his functioning any. If it works, don't fix it!
Oh, and there are over 200 medically active compounds (drugs) in cannabis. THC is the big superstar because that's the one compound the spooks thought would lead to their wet dream of a truth serum so it's the only one that has been closely studied w/ government funding.
As for the myth of amotivational syndrome, talk to me when you make it into the NFL Hall Of Fame like Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-
***Given a choice between pharmaceutical meds,street drugs, marijuana or behavior modification, I would choose behavior modification.
And you think that BM is not an external control? Research shows that it is not a long-term solution to anyone's problems, and detrimental if punishment is overused. It doesn't address a person's lack of peace, which underlies the 'undesirable' behavior.
Do you BM yourself? Do you reward or punish yourself? Do you give other family members permission to punish you when you fall short of your/their expectations?
***It's a much different thing than when I was a teen.
Not from my perspective. Many more people were dying from drug overdoses in the 60s and 70s. I actually see a vast improvement in the situation.
***I agree in the medical uses for marijuana - cancer pain, glaucoma, but not for ADD. Hey son, lets go smoke some weed together so you can get an A in Science this week and I can get some housework done........
There are many ways to administer THC other than smoking. One might slow cook the herb in butter, strain and use the butter to prepare foods.
Scientists are not advocating that people smoke pot with their 'ADD' child. If/when THC becomes available it will be in pill form of course, and with any luck it will be the genuine article and not some laboratory chemical knock-off that they'll charge megabucks for, with some undesirable side effects- like Valium.
Ultimately, there are many issues that need to be explored when a child lacks attention- vision, diet, food allergies, learning environment, boredom, parenting, family dynamics, real and perceived fears. The list goes on. Many kids are diagnosed with this dreaded scurge who have legitimate medical conditions and/or dysfunctional homes and/or the need for a different learning environment. Same applies to any child who is acting out some underlying distress. To ignore the root cause of the 'problem' is disrespectful. To punish their reaction to a toxic world and relationships is disrespectful.
To rip a child from their family and incarcerate him/her is the ultimate disrespect.
-
I have been smoking pot for over 31 years. I quit when my parents entered me into straight, but started smoking and eating pot again about 4 years after I graduated from the program. My life is successful, as is my marriage. I am a college graduate with two degrees; I have worked in public service for over 15 years. I am now a small business owner with more work coming my way than I ever thought possible. I am not lazy. I work about 10-15 hours /day. I am financially succesful and love life. I do not drink alcohol, I do not use any other drugs. Pot has not led me to other drugs at all. The research you "quote" is not correct. If it is correct, then why afte 30+ years of smoking pot am I not "dead, insane or in jail" as the program parents like to recite? Why have I not used other drugs? Maybe because pot isn't a gateway drug as you like to think. I suggest that you think for yourself and not continue to let others do it for you.
-
Here's some of the latest on pharmaceutical mj worldwide:
http://www.gwpharm.com/ (http://www.gwpharm.com/)
Note that they're focusing on more than THC and using whole herb extracts. An Animated Cartoon Theology:
1. People are animals.
2. The body is mortal and subject to incredible pain.
3. Life is antagonistic to the living.
4. The flesh can be sawed, crushed, frozen, stretched, burned, bombed, and plucked for music.
5. The dumb are abused by the smart and the smart destroyed by their own cunning.
6. The small are tortured by the large and the large destroyed by their own momentum.
7. We are able to walk on air, but only as long as our illusion supports us.
-- E. L. Doctorow "The Book of Daniel"
-
Pot causes Anxiety in users after much usage. Ask Dr. drew pinsky host of lovelines by going to the website and asking him a question and you can listen to his show anywhere in america as it is nationally syndicated with co host adam corrolla check the web or your radio in the evening. if we could legalize pot and tax it we would have enough money to house every senior in america and free up jobs and space in public housing they are taking.
-
No drug at equivalent doses causes *anything* in all users.
This is why the notion of good drugs and bad drugs is so silly.
Some people benefit from Ritalin; some don't. Some benefit from marijuana, some don't. Some benefit from antidepressants; some don't. Some benefit from Oxycontin, some don't. Some benefit from methadone... etc. All depends on the person and their particular problems (and in some cases, in how the drugs are regulated).
-
come on! anxiety? that is bullshit. I'm not anxious about life. I'm friggin excited about life. I'm the poster that has smoked for over 31 years. Obviously, you just quote the parent bullshit speak of the program.
-
On 2004-10-17 19:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
It's a much different thing than when I was a teen.
This phrase is part of the mantra of the WWASPS seminars. Yet, when you ask exactly how "it is different", you get no response. Is different worse? One would expect so, from the dreaded tones of evilness with which this phrase is spoken. Are there more drugs? Are they easier or cheaper to get? I don't think so. I graduated high school in the 60's, and some really dangerous psychodelic drugs, mushrooms, exotic Eastern stuff, was available at every party to pop into your long-neck bottle of beer. There was even the dreaded mellow yellow, dried shaving of the insides of banana peels...realy nasty stuff! Because you expected it, you could probably get as high off mellow yellow as you can attending a high-volume rah-rah seminar (thankfully apart from your kids) in a drab motel conference room.
To say that "things are much worse now" is to give up thinking, and go with the Party Line...while giving up on parenting your child. Hhmmm..."deadorinjail" comes to mind. Ask a WWASPie what that means, really, and watch for a blank expression.
For a biological creator (steering away from the word "parent"), it's nifty to say, "Given a choice between pharmaceutical meds,street drugs, marijuana or behavior modification, I would choose behavior modification. It does work for those who choose to." Problem is, the victims of BM facilities never get to make the choice. Modify your behavior or die...literally. My child told me she was truly convinced she was going to die in WWASPS custody. What an incentive to modify!
-
To the person that has been smoking pot for over 30 years, what don't you trust about yourself that you have to mask your thoughts and feelings? I don't see how this could be a testimonial of how "okay" it is.
Yes, Spots, it is different from when I was a teen. It's not necessarily the drugs, it's the rampant writing of prescriptions for ADD, diagnosing mood disorders that make our kids feel worthless, not to mention the public school system. Can a parent really be a parent when schools, psychiatrists, therapists are telling them what to do to be a better parent which means popping a pill in the kids mouth, they'll be okay. What is that telling the kids, it's telling them it's okay to take drugs. Do they really think the prescribed meds are different from the street drugs when their peers are self-medicating? How many kids can go into the parents medicine cabinet or liquor cabinet and find what they see their parents taking. Yes, it is different from when I was a teen.
The drugs are designer now, if you don't think the drugs are more dangerous, you are not educating yourself. Go to a head shop if you dare to be educated, and ask questions. Maybe your local police department has a handbook of street drugs.
Tell me what Salvia Divinorum, Khat and Yaba are. You've heard about Ecstacy, but can you tell me more about it? What about MDMA? DXM? GHB?
What do you have in your home that can be used to get high? Keyboard cleaner, rubber cement, butane, degreasers? Not "new" but is being used more now than ever.
What about Ketamine? Being around animals, you may have this in your barn?
-
http://ishmael.com/Education/Writings/rice_u_2_98.shtml (http://ishmael.com/Education/Writings/rice_u_2_98.shtml)
-
On 2004-10-17 19:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Given a choice between pharmaceutical meds,street drugs, marijuana or behavior modification, I would choose behavior modification.
I hope you mean for yourself. The world has had enough of self rightous assholes telling others they need a little brainwashing...for their own good.
-
Pot is a tad bit different than when we were kids in the 70s, but not in a negative way.
You see, those that point to the terrifying increase in potency fail to realize that kids today smoke much less marijuana because of the potentcy taking in much less smoke and tars.
When I was a kid people would smoke an ounce in one night. Now 5 people might get together and all share one joint and be done.
And, I do not smoke marijuana anymore soley because I get anxious when I smoke. Some of my best friends have smoked for over 30 years and are highly sucessfull republican types. In fact, if people trusted you would would know how many middle aged sucessfull professional family people smoke pot. It really is astounding.
Your link anon was nothing but idiotic propoganda designed to spread misinformation and prop up the failed war on drugs. Try again.[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-10-19 20:46 ]
-
Actually Greg, I agree this is propaganda. I posted to open up conversation.
-
On 2004-10-19 19:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To the person that has been smoking pot for over 30 years, what don't you trust about yourself that you have to mask your thoughts and feelings? I don't see how this could be a testimonial of how "okay" it is.
"
Mask my thoughts and feelings? Uh no, I smoke grass recreationally. I dont' use it to "mask thoughts or feelings" Obviously you are still hung up on program speak. Much to the dismay of people like you and others in the "teen help industry" (what a joke), smoking grass is ok done in moderation, just like most other things. I like candy, but I don't eat it every day, nor do I eat a pound of it when I do. Just like smoking grass, I smoke a couple of bong hits on Friday and Saturday night. That's it! I have been doing this for over 30 years. I am highly succesful in my field (not a republican type). I meet people all the time that are in my age group(late 30's to mid 50's) that smoke MJ. So maybe you should think for yourself and not let the folks in the teen help industry do it for you. You know, God gave you a brain. . . maybe you should use it.
-
bumpty bump bump
-
On 2004-10-19 23:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Actually Greg, I agree this is propaganda. I posted to open up conversation. "
Oops. Sorry I misunderstood. Good topic.
-
There is a Christian board I spend some time on and recently someone posted asking if it was a sin to smoke pot.
I was surprised at how many of the frequent and conservative type posters admitted to smoking and seeing no harm in it.
Naturally, there was a lot of disagreement, as there always is, no matter the topic - but I was surprised at the general strong support the herbs of the field had.
I can see where some might smoke less as a result of the power behind it nowadaze - but I don't think this is the case with the kids my kid hangs with. I think they get pretty blistered.
I personally see no great harm in the occasional joint but I do think there are significant health risks to any kind of frequent use. I do think frequent use in the teen years may predispose a person to depression and anxiety as an adult. It has to do with the effect of the drug on the brain and the wearing out of the neurons that one needs to feel content and at ease. It also, without a doubt, eats up memory. Then their are the respiratory problems and the adverse effect on the immune system. And also, I have a friend who works in a hospital and she tells me the docs talk about the growing epidemic of cancers that they attribute to pot use among the baby boomers.
It is not a benign drug.
Even so, I agree the laws as they now stand do far more harm than the drug itself ever could.
As a Christian, I have deep concerns about the spiritual aspects of any kind of drug use. There is a reason why mind/mood altering drug use is so popular among occultist - and its not something a Christian ought to be dabbling with. Their are plenty of Christians who disagree - but that's my opinion.
-
On 2004-10-21 10:24:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"There is a Christian board I spend some time on and recently someone posted asking if it was a sin to smoke pot.
I was surprised at how many of the frequent and conservative type posters admitted to smoking and seeing no harm in it.
Naturally, there was a lot of disagreement, as there always is, no matter the topic - but I was surprised at the general strong support the herbs of the field had.
I can see where some might smoke less as a result of the power behind it nowadaze - but I don't think this is the case with the kids my kid hangs with. I think they get pretty blistered.
We are talking about the amount of marijuana, not the resulting high.
...are significant health risks to any kind of frequent use. I do think frequent use in the teen years may predispose a person to depression and anxiety as an adult. It has to do with the effect of the drug on the brain and the wearing out of the neurons that one needs to feel content and at ease. It also, without a doubt, eats up memory. Then their are the respiratory problems and the adverse effect on the immune system.
All very interesting if true. Post some links to the science behind your assertions here. Or are you just speculating?
-
I don't care if marijuana is a drug or not---I will continue to use it and persecute those who do not use it. "With us or by us, you will get wasted!" :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:
-
On 2004-10-21 10:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't care if marijuana is a drug or not---I will continue to use it and persecute those who do not use it. "With us or by us, you will get wasted!" :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: "
Wow that r-e-a-l-l-y helped this conversation along didn't it? I would like to take this time to apologize for this poster, and how he cut into a serious topic of discussion. Continue please...
-
I think the message was as valid as any of the others.
I think the poster meant to put the shoe on the other foot- how would you folks who are against pot feel if you were required to use it? If your right to obstain was infringed upon?
-
I said:...are significant health risks to any kind of frequent use. I do think frequent use in the teen years may predispose a person to depression and anxiety as an adult. It has to do with the effect of the drug on the brain and the wearing out of the neurons that one needs to feel content and at ease. It also, without a doubt, eats up memory. Then their are the respiratory problems and the adverse effect on the immune system.
They said:
All very interesting if true. Post some links to the science behind your assertions here. Or are you just speculating?
I say:
Not just speculating - I have based my comments on personal experience and observation, as well as information found in various articles, books,and documentaries. I can't provide links or references tho, b/c I can't seem to recall exactly where I read it, saw it and so on.
Just can't remember. . .
Oh well, pass the Doritos's . . .
Munch, Munch, Munch
[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2004-10-21 13:46 ][ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2004-10-21 13:48 ]
-
...are significant health risks to any kind of frequent use.
As so with eating frequently at McDonalds. Probably more so. So, should we also ban ALL junk food? We're all going to die, just a matter of when and how. Some take the quick route- blowing their brains out. Others do it slow- eating crap.
Now, it could be argued that pot MIGHT contribute to obesity. :lol:
...It has to do with the effect of the drug on the brain and the wearing out of the neurons that one needs to feel content and at ease.
Wearing out the neurons? :lol: What research proved this?
...It also, without a doubt, eats up memory.
What a crock of shit. What research proved this or even indicated it?
...Then their are the respiratory problems and the adverse effect on the immune system.
The only somewhat rational, possibly consequence you listed. Again, I think it is vastly more benign than eating the Standard American Diet.
Do christians have a moral position on McDonald's?
-
yeah, well they wouldn't let me register. I tried and I guess they didn't like my email address, or something, casue I couldn't become a member of their "christian" group.
-
The neuron thing is real; I didn't pull that out of thin air. If your really interested, you can probably find the articles and studies yourself.
Might try looking up a documentary, Mary Jane grows up. . . That is ringing a bell and *might* be where they went over this. I really don't recall. But I do think it was TV and not a book or magazine - as I recall the animation they used to illustrate the overworked and dead neurons and the resulting lack of ability of the brain to use the neurotransmitters needed for contentment and happiness. Might have been something on TLC . . . Just can't remember.
So is memory loss; or rather the loss of ability to remember, a fact of life for the regular user.
I didn't think this was even disputable. It seems like common knowledge to me.
As for McDs - I agree its also bad for people - but as it IS legal - it lacks the consequences of the bust. Personally, I abstain - but I do eat to much taco bell.
And I am sure, Some Christians would say its a sin to eat fast food. Others would disagree.
That's just the way it is.
Christian Board?
//yeah, well they wouldn't let me register. I tried and I guess they didn't like my email address, or something, casue I couldn't become a member of their "Christian" group.//
What board are you talking about? I was referring to Zola's board; tho I didn't name it. Anyone can register and many aren't Christian; tho those who aren't Christian tend to be Jewish. It is moderated and if you go trolling they will boot you - but plenty of debate takes place.
If your email address is raising red flags, maybe you ought to re-think it?[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2004-10-22 07:48 ]
-
My email address is a aol account. Wasn't there a link to the site at one time on this post? Or am I just cooked?
-
Just like the psyche drugs available by prescription and the "non nutritive sweeteners" listed on the label of your favorite diet drink, the 'science' released by our government on marijuana has been radically influenced by politicians, lobbyists and other assorted shady characters.
And, just as with those other substances, people are starting to question that bunk and get down to the truth.
Here's a pretty interesting read on the toxicity of Cannabis:
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/70/80972.htm (http://my.webmd.com/content/article/70/80972.htm)
"This is merely confirming what was known over 100 years ago, as well as what was learned by various government findings doing similar research -- marijuana is not toxic, but it is a highly effective medicine."
Here's a Federal report that every American should read at least once. It's a review of available research which cost us about a million dollars to produce. Since it didn't support the ONDCP's (drug czar and former SOCOM commander, Gen. Barry McCaffrey) hard line on MMJ, the federal government round filled the report. They even tried forcing people to remove copies from their websites. That, of course, backfired, causing a prolliferation of copies all over the world, well beyond the legal reach of General McCzar.
http://books.nap.edu/html/marimed/ch4.html (http://books.nap.edu/html/marimed/ch4.html)
About halfway down this page is the start of findings on mj's affects on neurology.
On cannabis and the immune system:
http://www.lycaeum.org/drugwar/marijim.html (http://www.lycaeum.org/drugwar/marijim.html)
SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS
Despite the fairly large literature that developed during the past 15 years or so, the effect of cannabinoids on the immune system is still unsettled. The evidence has been contradictory and is more supportive of some degree of immunosuppression only when one considers in vitro studies. These have been seriously flawed by the very high concentrations of drug used to produce immunosuppression and by the lack of comparisons with other membrane-active drugs. The closer that experimental studies have been to actual clinical situations, the less compelling has been the evidence.
Although the topic was of great interest during the 1970s, as indicated by the preponderance of references from that period, interest has waned during the present decade. This waning of interest suggests that perhaps most investigators feel that this line of inquiry will not be rewarding. the AIDS epidemic has also diverted the attention of the immunologists to the far more serious problem of the truly devastating effects a retrovirus can have on a portion of the immune system.
The relationship between the use of social drugs and the development of clinical manifestations of AIDS has been of some interest, however. Persons infected with the virus but not diagnosed as AIDS have been told to avoid the use of marijuana and/or alcohol. This advice may be reasonable as a general health measure, but direct evidence that heeding this warning will prevent the ultimate damage to the immune system is totally lacking.
Finally, our government and others have spent many years and truckloads of money trying to prove that cannabis is just as evil and dangerous as they've led us to believe. If there were some smoking gun research proving their theories, they'd be hawking copies all over the place. The fact is that, despite their best efforts, no such properly done, peer reviewed study exists.
While no herb or substance is 100% safe for everyone under all circumstances, this stuff is safer that potatos, tylenol, asprin or coffee.
"Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care."
Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young, DOJ/DEA
http://www.medmjscience.org/Pages/reports/jyp1.bhtml (http://www.medmjscience.org/Pages/reports/jyp1.bhtml)It is fear that first brought Gods into the world.
--Gallus Petronius, 1st Century Roman courtier
-
Well Ginger, I do hope it IS as safe as all that, because I lived for years in a more or less constant haze of pot smoke.
And now there is my kid also living in a hemp fog.
So, I hope it is safe and benign.
Much about what I have mentioned makes sense to me tho - and I do believe, for the average regular user, there is a price to pay health wise for the high times.
Even so, I support de-criminalization of cannabis. If it is harmful, it is certainly no more so than tobacco or alcohol or as someone mentioned, a diet heavy on fast food.
Locking people up; kicking them out of school;firing a dependable employee, for smoking pot, is ridicules; And far more damaging than the drug itself could ever be.
kpickle39
//My email address is a aol account. Wasn't there a link to the site at one time on this post? Or am I just cooked?//
Not on this post; but I have linked to it a couple times elsewhere. Are you saying the Zola board wouldn't let you register? If so, I feel sure it was a glitch. Its an open board - all are welcome - you just won't be allowed to troll or flame with abandon. They make the point it is a family board and so you have to keep that in mind when posting and not use any of Carlin's seven words and they strongly discourage attacking individuals - but it happens.
If you want to post, try again.
http://www.levitt.com/ (http://www.levitt.com/)
-
bbbbuuuuuummmmmmmmmmpppppppppppppppp ah yes, some good good grasssssssssssssssssssssss
-
I always like to point out that, in reality.....when it comes to MJ....its important to separate the drug from the term"drug abuse".
If you smoke all day, there are obviously going to be consequences that manifest in many ways other than your physical health. Just as if you were to pop 15 Darvocet a day, which happens to be a perfectly legal drug.
Its not the drug that causes the addictive behaviour. The root issues must be addressed. What is driving me to drink? What is driving me to smoke? What am I running from? Drugs themselves are not the cause of doing drugs, make sense? And if it wasnt drugs, it would be sex, or alcohol, or food, or religion......think about it.
In my opinion, physical harm or lack thereof doesnt even factor into the big picture when you look at how many destructive substances our government and society deems "benign" to begin with.
I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I'm a human being first and foremost, and as such I am for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole
--Malcolm X
-
Carmel - YES! Addiction doesn't always mean pills, alcohol!
Avoiding the underlying causes can take many other forms: perfection, power, being a victim, sleeping, revenge, being right, being nice, being helpful, talking, sports, working, shopping, envy, politics, pointing out faults, coffee, gambling, money, winning, reading, exercise, nicotine. Are some "healthy" addictions? In moderation, are some considered dangerous? There are good habits and bad habits. Is it the obession that makes it unhealthy, consuming every minute of every day for the "fix?"
Talking to your kids about drugs doesn't work. Getting comfortable with talking with your kids about the underlying causes take education and practice and brings them to the surface so they can deal with the driving force.
As an example, I was addicted to exercise. I was at the gym 7 nights a week for 3-4 hours. The underlying cause? To avoid being around my now ex-husband. Would the outcome of our marriage been any different had I been conscious of avoiding conversations that were uncomfortable?
Would there be less need for Programs if parents talked about the behavior driving the destructive behaviors the whole family enables?
-
Well, given the definition of addicted:
to devote or surrender (oneself) to something habitually or obsessively
...would you say that you were addicted to the gym, or could it be that the real addiction (habitual pattern) was avoiding uncomfortable interaction with your spouse.
I think the later. The gym was just a refuge- and provided a reasonable/good/acceptable excuse for not being home. You could have been participating in a variety of activities every evening (movies, shopping, dinner with friends, working late, etc) but a variety of activities may not have been considered reasonable or good- your agenda might have been more obvious. And in that case, you wouldn't say you were addicted to shopping, eating out, seeing movies, working late.
I just think the word 'addicted' is way over used and terribly misused. But, I appreciate your point, that there is always an underlying issue when people are involved in destructive behaviors. I wouldn't even talk to the person, in terms of their 'addition'. I'd just go for the underlying unhappiness or discomfort.
-
Great. You got it! Yes, The gym was the place to avoid - instead of drinking or getting high -
I was addicted to the behavior. And yes, the "why" was to avoid confrontations. I also believe the gym was and even deeper belief that I was fat and unworthy of a healthy relationship. I could have just as easily gone to night classes to avoid coming home had I been in a healthier frame of mind.
My underlying belief was feeling bad about myself.
Parents - drugs, cutting, anger, etc. are cries for love or acceptance. Find out what the underlying force that's driving the behavior - That's part of becoming a "better parent."
This might be a great book to help get started: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0967050 ... eader-link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0967050707/ref=sib_rdr_fc/104-8004840-7857529?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S001#reader-link)
-
Sorry. wrong link - It's called "The Right Questions" by Debbie Ford. Goes indepth about finding the underlying "commitments"
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0060086 ... eader-page (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0060086270/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-8827326-3605702#reader-page)
-
On 2004-10-19 19:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
Tell me what Salvia Divinorum, Khat and Yaba are. You've heard about Ecstacy, but can you tell me more about it? What about MDMA? DXM? GHB?
What do you have in your home that can be used to get high? Keyboard cleaner, rubber cement, butane, degreasers? Not "new" but is being used more now than ever.
What about Ketamine? Being around animals, you may have this in your barn?
-
On 2004-10-17 19:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Given a choice between pharmaceutical meds,street drugs, marijuana or behavior modification, I would choose behavior modification. It does work for those who choose to. Smoking weed is the easy way out. I talk with my kids about drugs, been to a head shop, and I'm aware of what's out there. I chose to become educated. It's a much different thing than when I was a teen.
I agree in the medical uses for marijuana - cancer pain, glaucoma, but not for ADD.
Hey son, lets go smoke some weed together so you can get an A in Science this week and I can get some housework done........ "
...there are piles and piles of evidence that prove behavior mod does not work, and in fact causes more harm than good.
Behavior mod programs cause more suicides and mental problems than marijuana ever could.
-
Are you looking at addiction as defined in a dictionary?
Yes, people can be addicted to going to the gym - for whatever reason. Any addiction, like posting on this board all the hate I'm seeing, is an addiction. What is so bad about life that you all need to sit around and find fault with someone else's choice in help for their child?????
Control is also an addiction. If you find only one parent that is looking for a reason to not get help for their child, you feel good. Control is saying the stuff you do and when people actually listen it feeds your addiction to keep on going lower and lower.
Do you think about this board when you're not able to be at a computer. Do you think about it before going to sleep at night. How long do you wait to come here after you are near a computer?
Thought so!! :lol:
-
Right on. Don't forget about the ones that search the internet for other bashing forms and flood them as well. An intelligent parent won't listen, they'll ask to talk to people that have been there, not some negative control addicted freak. The program staff wouldn't listen to them telling them how to do their job while their kid was there so they either pulled them out so they could "do a better job" or found a program that allowed them to tell them what works best for their child. Find a de-programming group or a 12 step program for the Cult of Fornits or other similar web forums.
-
::bump::
-
On 2004-11-13 14:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Are you looking at addiction as defined in a dictionary?
Yes, people can be addicted to going to the gym - for whatever reason. Any addiction, like posting on this board all the hate I'm seeing, is an addiction. What is so bad about life that you all need to sit around and find fault with someone else's choice in help for their child?????
Control is also an addiction. If you find only one parent that is looking for a reason to not get help for their child, you feel good. Control is saying the stuff you do and when people actually listen it feeds your addiction to keep on going lower and lower.
Do you think about this board when you're not able to be at a computer. Do you think about it before going to sleep at night. How long do you wait to come here after you are near a computer?
Thought so!! :lol: "
That is so weird. You really believe that shit?
Your definition of addiction is really fucked up, and you aren't very good at predicting what's going on in other people's heads.
The term "psychobabble" comes to mind.
Timoclea
-
***Control is also an addiction. If you find only one parent that is looking for a reason to not get help for their child, you feel good. Control is saying the stuff you do and when people actually listen it feeds your addiction to keep on going lower and lower.
Isn't the program mantra, "You create your own reality. You're responsible for everything that happens"?
On the one hand you program groupies appear to be saying 'take control' of your life. Take control your choices.
Except when it come to shipping one's kid off to a warehouse, then one should abdicate control of all thought, choices, and connection with their child.
You are some sick (ignorant?) fucks. Do you realize how utterly confused you sound and how contradictory your mantras are?
-
"On the one hand you program groupies appear to be saying 'take control' of your life. Take control of your choices. Except when it comes to shipping one's kid off to a warehouse, then one should abdicate control of all thought, choices, and connection with their child."
*********************************************
Obviously you've been reading too much Fornits brainwashing. Is that working for you?