Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: NPriceMD on October 16, 2004, 04:16:00 PM
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Hello:
I have been collecting information on WWASP programs for the past week, and would like to communicate directly with "graduates" or "survivors" of the programs (whichever you consider yourself) and perhaps some parents.
The information I have come across on the internet is difficult to trust, with all the strong opposing views on the effectiveness of the programs and the varying accounts of severity of the programs. I will say that some of the horror stories scare me, but I hope to withhold judgement for now.
I have a family member who was recently sent to the Academy at Ivy Ridge, a newer WWASP facility, and have found limited information specific to this facility. I am a young adult who feels very strongly that this adolescent's problems were insufficient trouble to warrant such action. I would like to put my mind at ease about the nature of this program and my cousin's well being, or take any action I and the rest of my family may to rectify what I see as a potentially grave mistake.
I would appreciate anyone who would take a few moments to drop me an email at NPrice1980@yahoo.com regarding positive or negative experiences with WWASP programs, especially those directly relating to Ivy Ridge.
Thanks So Much,
Nicole in Washington, DC
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Info about Ivy Ridge: http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.html)
Make sure to read the survivors' statements.
That site also contains a lot of info about other WWASP programs and WWASP in general.
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Nicole, probably the best way to find out what you want to know would be to contact AIR directly and try to make arrangements to spend an hour w/ your young relative. I emphasise the word "try" because, if 1/10th of what I've read about AIR is accurate, you won't be allowed to see or even correspond w/ them at all. And, after posting here, you'll probably not even be allowed to communicate with them through their parents.
Unless, of course, you're a program troll trying to lure emotionally distraught people into making legally actionable statements. Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy
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I appreciate the link, I am looking into it presently. I can't believe I missed this with everything I've pulled up this week.
Again, anyone with direct, experiential information on Ivy Ridge, I would be very interested in correspondence by email, snail mail, or telephone. Feel free to contact me at NPrice1980@yahoo.com.
Best wishes to all,
Nicole
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ANTIGEN: JUST A LITTLE NOTE FROM A RECENT LAW SCHOOL GRADUATE - COMMENTS ARE NOT LEGALLY ACTIONABLE - ie LIBELOUS - UNLESS THEY ARE NOT TRUE. TRUTH, YOU SEE, IS AN ABSOLUTE DEFENCE TO LIBEL. THIS IS WHY THE FOLKS AT PURE DEFEATED WWASPS LAW SUIT AGAINST THEM RECENTLY. THEY BROUGHT IN ENOUGH PEOPLE TO BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS
THIS FACT ALONE - THE LOSS OF A LAW SUIT WILL PROBABLY PREVENT WWASP FROM EVER SEAKING ACTION AGAIN - UNLESS OF COURSE WHAT IS BEING SAID IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE. THERE HAS JUST BEEN TOO MUCH PUBLICITY ABOUT WWASP PROGRAMS - THEY WILL HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT TIME PREVAILING IN ANY TYPE OF LIBEL CASE. LOOK AT THE LAW CASE "NY TIMES VS SULLIVAN" IT IS A TEXTBOOK CASE THAT SPELLS OUT THE LAW REGARDING LEGALLY ACTIONABLE COMMENTS.....
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ANTIGEN: JUST A LITTLE NOTE FROM A RECENT LAW SCHOOL GRADUATE - COMMENTS ARE NOT LEGALLY ACTIONABLE - ie LIBELOUS - UNLESS THEY ARE NOT TRUE. TRUTH, YOU SEE, IS AN ABSOLUTE DEFENCE TO LIBEL. THIS IS WHY THE FOLKS AT PURE DEFEATED WWASPS LAW SUIT AGAINST THEM RECENTLY. THEY BROUGHT IN ENOUGH PEOPLE TO BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS
THIS FACT ALONE - THE LOSS OF A LAW SUIT WILL PROBABLY PREVENT WWASP FROM EVER SEAKING ACTION AGAIN - UNLESS OF COURSE WHAT IS BEING SAID IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE. THERE HAS JUST BEEN TOO MUCH PUBLICITY ABOUT WWASP PROGRAMS - THEY WILL HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT TIME PREVAILING IN ANY TYPE OF LIBEL CASE. LOOK AT THE LAW CASE "NY TIMES VS SULLIVAN" IT IS A TEXTBOOK CASE THAT SPELLS OUT THE LAW REGARDING LEGALLY ACTIONABLE COMMENTS.....
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Law School Graduate that's posting this??
The reason WWASPS lost the lawsuit against PURE is that there are too many others posting lies on forums and talking to the press. They had to go after everyone, not just PURE. Please, if this is not true, correct me with facts, not your own agenda.
Also, please direct me to an actual abuse suit against WWASPS that was proven true, or won.
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To the recent lawschool grad:
First, when you type in all caps, that's usually read as shouting. If that's your intent, ok. But if not, you'll want to unhitch your caps lock.
Second, you say "TRUTH, YOU SEE, IS AN ABSOLUTE DEFENCE TO LIBEL." That's not strictly true; at least not by the commonly accepted definitions of the word "truth". In order to meet the legal definition, one must be able to prove that what they say is true. How do you do that? No kid who's had their arm twisted almost to the point of breaking to enforce a stress position has pictures. They're not permitted to keep contact information of potential wittnesses and the "exit plans", as described by many, taint those wittnesses by intimidation anyway.
Telling the truth is one thing. Being able to prove what you say is another. I'm glad PURE won that suit. (however, I still would like to know to which schools and programs PURE refers kids, how they ensure safety and efficacy and how they get paid) And I'm glad more and more people are speaking out about what goes on inside these cloistered little cultures. Maybe one day we'll accomplish adequate transparency in the industry.
...it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds..
--Samuel Adams
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anon wwasp person says:
"The reason WWASPS lost the lawsuit against PURE is that there are too many others posting lies on forums and talking to the press. They had to go after everyone, not just PURE. Please, if this is not true, correct me with facts, not your own agenda. "
Now, how do you know this?
Have you interviewed the jury and so know why they found against you?
I wasn't there the entire time, but I don't recall the "many others posting" ever being mentioned. I would think they would have been, repeatedly, had this been a factor. In fact, seemed to me, wwasp would like the world (and the court) to think every negative post or report about them comes from Sue.
Sue's defense was based on the truth of what she had said in her now famous posting on Lons board. At least, that was my un-professional take on the case.
If you want to know why I think wwasp lost this case:
http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/kbobservations.pdf (http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/kbobservations.pdf)
Now, if I'm wrong - please correct me with facts and not your aganda.
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It's not likely you are going to find an abuse, personal injury case against wwasp that was won. Not yet anyway.
WWASP pays offfor silence. Dont be a dumb shit.
Get enlightened.
Cases are being filed right and left.
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Nicole,
For information on Ivy Ridge contact the New York state Attorney's General's office.
There is an investigation taking place about Ivy Ridge.
Be afraid, be very concerned.
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my understanding is similar, but in other words, wwasp has to PROVE that what was said is NOT true. kinda hard to prove that when there are others with testimony to the contrary.
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When a case is settled out of court - and sometimes they are before a law-suit is filed - then there is no paper trail. Many of the claims against WWASP are settled - much like one would settle an auto-accident. The only time the public is aware is when the case if actually filed and goes to public court.
They lost to PURE - and that set a standard of sorts.
When someone files a suit for libel - they then have the burden of proving that the statements were indeed entirely false.
The folks at PURE had witnesses describe their abuse in public court to a jury. It's reported that the testimonies were so sincere that many of the jurors wept or were visibly upset. Several people testified under oath regarding the abuse they witnessed and endured - that was good enough for the court, the jury and for me.
WWASP programs are abusive.........And there are witnesses to back up that statement and now there are official court records that back up that statement. Therefore, it is not libelous to say on this forum, or any other, that WWASP programs have abused children....It's been established in open court.....Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth.
--Mohandas K. Gandhi
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Hello:
I have been collecting information on WWASP programs for the past week, and would like to communicate directly with "graduates" or "survivors" of the programs (whichever you consider yourself) and perhaps some parents.
The information I have come across on the internet is difficult to trust, with all the strong opposing views on the effectiveness of the programs and the varying accounts of severity of the programs. I will say that some of the horror stories scare me, but I hope to withhold judgement for now.
I have a family member who was recently sent to the Academy at Ivy Ridge, a newer WWASP facility, and have found limited information specific to this facility. I am a young adult who feels very strongly that this adolescent's problems were insufficient trouble to warrant such action. I would like to put my mind at ease about the nature of this program and my cousin's well being, or take any action I and the rest of my family may to rectify what I see as a potentially grave mistake.
I would appreciate anyone who would take a few moments to drop me an email at NPrice1980@yahoo.com regarding positive or negative experiences with WWASP programs, especially those directly relating to Ivy Ridge.
Thanks So Much,
Nicole in Washington, DC
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Nicole - you should review some of the links regarding the closure of several WWASP facilities - especially the recent shut-down of Casa by the Sea in Ensenada Mexico. There have been numerous reports of abuse about Ivy Ridge and the others. They all use the same abusive approach that includes a lot of punishment and rigid behavior modification.
WWASP programs use isolation as a form of punishment. The out-of-state programs would isolate children "on their face." Which means they had to lay on their bellies in an observation room. An observation room is usually a closet sized structure with concrete floor and concrete or brick walls. I'm sure someone could give you some links to more reliable reports.
Take Care, and best wishes.....People everywhere enjoy believing things that they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know.
BROOKS ATKINSON (1894-1984), Once Around The Sun, 1951.
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Nicole---what you should do depends on whether "young adult" means you're a minor, or "young adult" means you're a college student or somesuch.
Contact ISAC (google them) to find out some legal strategies that have been effective at getting kids removed from WWASPS facilities, and others, in the past.
One case I seem to recall was a pair of cousins of a kid sent to Tranquility Bay in Jamaica (a WWASPS place)--they sued for custody of their cousin and won.
A lot of survivors say they have permanent physical and psychological damage from their incarceration in WWASPS and similar programs.
If you're a legal adult, *you* have standing to sue for custody, but you might not be the most strategic choice, if there's another relative willing to sue. If you're a minor, you may have to try to persuade another family member to file and pursue the suit.
If the parents are not open to realizing that this facility is probably dangerous to their child***, if as you say the child was inappropriately placed, then your most effective recourse is likely to be fighting for custody in the courts.
I know a kid who got sent to a non-WWASPS facility for trivial reasons. She hated it, and it appears to have further damaged her relationship with her mother rather than improving it. She's still very freshly out of the place, so she hasn't talked about it much yet.
Timoclea
***I base this statement of "dangerous" on the NIMH findings that say that RTC's and Boot Camps are dangerous to teens with mental health problems, and the recent defamation suit lost by WWASPS about their practices, and the cousin's statement that the placement is not appropriate to what the teen did---which implies that the teen is not a juvenile delinquent. Based on the results of the Stanford Prison Experiments, it is clear that incarcerating someone who is neither mentally ill nor a juvenile delinquent is dangerous to the person in and of itself.
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I would like to thank the employee of ivy ridge who posted. About the only intelligent post here. I especially like the part about give your kids up for adoption. How true. The mother of my kid stuck her in ivy ridge to get out of paying me childsupport. I'm pissed. I am 46yrs old. I was placed in a real boarding school when I was 6yrs. old Iwas there till I was 14 and told my mother to go to hell. I t took me 2 weeks and a threat to her mother to finally find out where she had put her. It took another 2weeks to get the tour of the place. I have filed for custody.Is there abuse going on a ivy ridge. I guarentee it. I could see it before I ever left my house for the 6hr ride to get there. I have the letters from my daughter telling me not to take her mother to court and try to get her out of the "school" This pissed me off. A real "school" would never have allowed her to know what I was doing. Ask any counselor in the world and they would tell you it was wrong. Excuse my french but read your fucking handbook that you were given on page 12 about manipulation. I was then allowed to go to the school for a tour. I have been a few places in my life. I was an over the road truckdriver. Odgensburg, NY . Been there before the middle of nowwhere. Real onehorse town. ivy ridge will put this town on the map.Probably one ofthe largest employers in the town I do the tour bullshit. I was walking down the hall and the kids would sneak glances at me. I asked about that. I was told until they get to a certain "level" you can't talk. Holly shit, you take a dog to obiedence school and at least he can bark. You know what, I don't have the time to tell you dumb ass parents about it .I have been in Jail (for childsupport) and boarding school for 9yrs and ivy ridge. That is also the degree of dificulty. Jail is a piece of cake . Boarding school sucked and ivy ridge is the bottom of the fucking barrell. If you are a parent reading this, use your fucking yuppy head. You tell your kids you don't want them to grow up and work in Micky D's, Who do you think is taking care of your kids. I went to a bar whileI was there and talked to some people.what a joke.Think of this, where you work, you have good and bad employees. Do you think this shit hole is any different. I went to a so called respectable boarding school. There was sexual abuse there and this was in the 60's. Get you head out of your ass. Can you really be this fucking stupid. You work at a job what happens when you have somebody with power. Your boss, or somebody elses boss. Do some of them abuse the power?? Do cops, judges,teachers and even the asshole security guard abuse there power. Put anybody incontrol of somebody and there is the potential for abuse. Now, take the mentality of some of the employees of ivy ridge. You dumb asses. Do you honestly think that one of these hillbillies wouldn't take a blowjob for a smoke. Hell,our one fucken president did it. Where was the secret service?? This place is supposed to be above that? I have been there done that. Do I still have the scares from when I was in a boarding school. Hell yes, 35 yrs later. You ass holed have more money than brains. Insted of the 2cars and the big house you should of spent somemoney on learning how to be a parent. You invented the word TIME OUT. Now you assholes invented the saying, My kid is out of control. Never heard that when I was growing up.Hey, put the kid on ridlin, he must have a problem. You are the fuckin problem. ivy ridge says the kids made poor choices. The kid had no choice to have a stupid parents. Sorry to go off but I hate yuppys and stupid people. They both blame others for there problems. I used to see the yuppies at my daughter's sports events, Usually standing there talking to another ashole about there job, there new house, cars,... Hey, asshole , your kid just scored a goal. They are the ones who say that they don't know what went wrong with so and so's kid . He came from a good family. Nice neighborhood and gave him or her everything. You know who you are. You sent your kid to a place, Not a school. They cheat to get your kid through school. Your kid is home schooled. If you are so fucking smart, have one of the parents stay home and teach the kid. Save the $ 40,000.00 plus cash. Remember this is equal to making$60,000.00. No don't, you were dumb enough to send your kid to ivy ridge your too stupid to educate them. Shit you too stupid to be a parent. Remember, you are the minority, there are a hell of alot more good parents than bad. Hey, the next time you go out to eat at Micky D's or the country club look at the person who waites on you and tell him that you have more money than him but, he will probably be a better parent. And, for the kids who got out of these places. When you turn 18 get a lawyer. Sue you parents, they fucked you. They put you on this earth and didn't do there job. They had choices. abortion, adoption. But they chose to fuck you up themselves. If your still in ivy ridge, I know you wont be reading this. Also, I would be glad to take a couple kids at my house. You give me custody will call the $40,000.00 childsupport and it will be tax free to me. I will teach you kid what he or she needs to know. EPa3437202@aol.com