Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 08, 2004, 02:55:00 PM
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Has anyone heard about a death at SCL yesterday?
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yes.
the story as we have it now is a girl hung herself with her sweatshirt in the bathroom.
Supposed to hit print soon.
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*sigh* and I bet they're gonna say its the kids fault as usual
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
--Edward Everett
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The press release from wwasp is out.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041008/laf082_1.html (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041008/laf082_1.html)
Press Release Source: Spring Creek Lodge Academy
Student Commits Suicide at Montana School
Friday October 8, 5:15 pm ET
THOMPSON FALLS, Mont., Oct. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- Spring Creek Lodge Academy (SCLA) a specialty boarding school in north-west Montana announced Friday that a student had committed suicide by hanging.
In spite of the efforts of SCLA staff, medical personnel, and emergency crews who worked to revive her, the girl was pronounced dead at a Missoula, MT hospital the Thursday evening, October 7.
In honor of the family's wishes, the student's name will not be released.
"We're all in a state of shock," said Chaffin Pullan, assistant director of operations at the school. "We're devastated. Most of all, we're deeply saddened for the family."
SCLA was acutely aware of the girl's fragility and had placed her on "high risk" observation. After showing signs of improvement, the 16-year-old student was recently removed from high risk after consultation with the student's counselor, the assistant clinical director and four staff members who had worked closely with her.
In describing the school's response, Pullan said SCLA will conduct a detailed investigation into the girl's death, and will review its policies and procedures in order to prevent such a tragedy happening at the school again. In addition, SCLA therapists, counselors, and staff will work closely with students in the coming days to facilitate the grieving process.
Pullan acknowledged the professional and compassionate work of those who responded to SCLA's call for assistance. "Law enforcement, first responders, the ambulance crew, the Life Flight crew, the doctors -- for me, it was just another way that the people here show their support for what we do, and their concern for kids. We can't even describe how much we appreciate that," said Pullan.
For further information, please contact: In Montana, Jacqueline Rutze, +1-406-827-4344, or Outside Montana, James Wall of Freeman Wall Aiello Public Relations, +1-303-232-3870, for Spring Creek Lodge Academy.
Source: Spring Creek Lodge Academy
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// Pullan said SCLA will conduct a detailed investigation into the girl's death,//
And what about the medical examiner?
What about children and family services?
SCLA is just going to lay blame on the girl.
//SCLA was acutely aware of the girl's fragility and had placed her on "high risk" observation. After showing signs of improvement, the 16-year-old student was recently removed from high risk after consultation with the student's counselor, the assistant clinical director and four staff members who had worked closely with her. //
What credentials do any of these people have to make such a decision; and furthermore, WHY was a mentally fragile child ever placed in such a demeaning and emotionally traumatizing program??!!
Did the girls parents Know what kind of place this really is?!
I bet not.
I hope they aren't so consumed with grief that they are unable to now find out.
How long do you think it takes to hang to death with a sweatshirt? How sad to think of how desperate for release she must have been! How hopeless and helpless - and not able to even call home and tell anyone how desperate she was feeling! No way to call anyone at all for help.
I feel sick.
It is just so awful.
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What kind of care does a wwasp program provide an emotionally fragile student?
Heres an example from my son's statement on Dundee ranch:
" The emotional abuse to me is
indescribable. I once stopped Mr. Kenny the Director at the time, and
told him I wanted to talk to someone and needed help. He responded by
saying " There is no more help boy, your ass is mine." He then turned
and walked away. "
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On 2004-10-08 16:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The press release from wwasp is out.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041008/laf082_1.html (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041008/laf082_1.html)
SCLA therapists, counselors, and staff will work closely with students in the coming days to facilitate the grieving process.
Scarriest line in the whole article.
"Law enforcement, first responders, the ambulance crew, the Life Flight crew, the doctors -- for me, it was just another way that the people here show their support for what we do, and their concern for kids." said Pullan.
Second scarriest line in the whole article.Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed people can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has.
-- Margaret Mead
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Reporter Bob McKeown asked ROBERT LICHFIELD,
?Are there kids who responded in the opposite direction? Are there kids for whom this is simply not the right thing to do??
ROBERT LICHFIELD responded, ?There has been no child who has not been positively influenced? by the programs associated with WWASP.
This is the mind set that will enroll any kid no matter what the problem into these abusive and negligent hell holes.
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My own child was supposed to be treated for severe depression, post traumatic stress syndrom with suicidal ideation at Provo Canyon School. PCS uses similar "therapeutic" techniques as the WWASP programs. Here's what they did to her:
Human take downs with isolation in an ice cold observation room; a week-long isolation for venting about the abuse she was enduring in a group therapy session; forced druggings with Haldol; Chair punishment/isolation - where she had to stair at the wall for up to ten hours per day to work off points. This was all done to a voluntary patient suffering from depression.
I'm sure that this poor girl's treatment was no different. I'm sure she suffered extreme abuse and inappropriate treatment for her depression. These programs ARE NOT SAFE FOR CHILDREN WHO SUFFER FROM DEPRESSION AND SUICIDAL THOUGHTS. This is just too sad - something that should not have happened. These parents need to look very closely at her records to see what was done to her. We all know what observation means in a WWASP program. It's brutal - isolation - staring at a wall- small, cold room....this was what she did during her last days on earth. What a tragedy! A multitude of laws in a country is like a great number of physicians, a sign of weakness and malady.
--Voltaire, philosopher (1694-1778)
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Bless her heart.
I hope she is feeling peace.
Peace from confusion, anger, fear, the hurt of rejection, abandonment.... and toture under guise of 'treatment'.
I'm sorry there wasn't someone to remind her of her goodness, that she was loved and had value. To remind her that her situation was temporary. That as wrong as it was, she could endure it and that life would certainly go on. Someone in her corner cheering her on rather than deminishing her spirit.
I'm sorry she couldn't see even a dim light at the end of the tunnel, and that there was no one to help her see it.
Another child sends a powerful message. Will anyone hear? Will anyone listen?
How long had she been there?
Had she gotten the "We're on vaction having a great time without you" letter?
Was she taking psychotropic drugs?
When was the last time she talked to someone who loved her?
How much time had she spent in isolation?
Did she know how long her sentence was, or was she 'escorted' and told nothing?
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Children are GOD's creation to his world.
Fortunately for US; OUR children didn?t die. They did however suffer from our ?stupid ness? and thinking one could be ?fixed? by someone else?s ?program?.
I too am deeply saddened by this child?s death. At the very best WE can hope someone will wake up from this disturbed mentality as parents?that some thing is wrong with our children. It isn?t OUR children?it?s us as adults & society that has caused this catastrophe?we as families have allowed wwasp to capitalize off of on OUR emotions.
Parents...please read the warning labels on all of your children! DO NOT...dispose of them at a WWASP facility!
It is a very sad day in hell?when one needs a PR firm to justify ?child abuse? by ANY organization. SICKOS!
My prayers & thoughts go out to her family, as well as for her safe & final journey into the house of the God.
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All right, you sent your son to Dundee Ranch? Did he graduate? And why did you send him there? Was he lieing when he lived at home with you? I'll bet that he was lieing. I'll also bet that he didn't graduate. How do I know this, because I myself am a graduate of the program. I graduated from Spring Creek. For six months before I went there I was a big part of a mentoring program that was available. I would go and talk to kids that were struggling. I didn't need to have permission to talk to anyone, I could go anywhere at any time and talk to any other kid that needed or wanted someone to talk to. I know, that the other programs have similar things. I know that while I was in the program, I never once was told I couldn't talk to someone.
If you talk to any other kid that graduated, they will tell you that they got a lot out of it. They might not have loved it every day. But they learned alot. Since I have been out, I have been confronted with drugs, alcohol, and all sorts of other things. But I think back on my time there, and what I learned and I know that I am better than any high, or any drunkin night.
I have met Cameron, and I have met Gilcrese and all of the facilitators. I know that there only concern is for the well being of us kids that are there and were there. I still to this day have kept in touch with some of the staff, and they are still supporting me to this day.
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On 2004-10-09 11:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"All right, you sent your son to Dundee Ranch? Did he graduate? And why did you send him there? Was he lieing when he lived at home with you? I'll bet that he was lieing. I'll also bet that he didn't graduate.
Typical program talk. If you child didn't graduate, he is probably manipulating/lying-- only cult members can be trusted with the truth. This way of thinking is typical cult brainwashing.
How do I know this, because I myself am a graduate of the program.
Figures. You sound just like all the rest of them.
I graduated from Spring Creek. For six months before I went there I was a big part of a mentoring program that was available. I would go and talk to kids that were struggling. I didn't need to have permission to talk to anyone, I could go anywhere at any time and talk to any other kid that needed or wanted someone to talk to.
And I bet you recommended the Holy Program to these poor kids, right? You would have never been allowed to talk to these kdis if it wasn't fo advertising purposes.
I know, that the other programs have similar things.
Probably. WWASP never misses on a chance to get itself some new prisoners.
I know that while I was in the program, I never once was told I couldn't talk to someone.
What about when you were in the lower levels? You probably were not allowed to talk to any one around you unless it was part of the ripping each other to pieces ritual, during groups sessions or during your seminars.
If you talk to any other kid that graduated, they will tell you that they got a lot out of it. They might not have loved it every day. But they learned alot.
Since kids who graduated have been brainwashed by the cult, I have no doubt that they will tell me how wonderful and helpful the Holy Program is.
Since I have been out, I have been confronted with drugs, alcohol, and all sorts of other things. But I think back on my time there, and what I learned and I know that I am better than any high, or any drunkin night.
You've been programmed this way. It's understandable.
I have met Cameron, and I have met Gilcrese and all of the facilitators. I know that there only concern is for the well being of us kids that are there and were there. I still to this day have kept in touch with some of the staff, and they are still supporting me to this day."
Like many other cult members, you are still in there, with the same people, who continue to re-inforce the programmnig because if they won't, it might go away, and then what? You might actually start to think on your own! Imagine that!
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My dear,
Graduation from a program does not ensure 'success'. We have heard many stories of kids who have graduated and pick up their old 'habits' immediately. We have also heard accounts of kids who are estranged from their families, due to their parents total allegence to the program. You have to acknowledge this, or you are the liar. If I had the time, I could provide a long list of links to such stories. They're they if you choose to open your eyes and look.
At every turn there is an effort on the part of the program to conquer and divide the family- conrary to their stated goal of reuniting the family. Hence the advice to reject a particpant/graduate who is not 'working the program'. The program does not want parent and child in communication unless they are on the same page- thouroughly entrenched in the program rhetoric. If the parent advocates for their kid or challenges the programs methods and procedures, the parent and child are dismissed. Many programs require a transistional boarding environment post graduation, or attendance at a college they have an arrangement with. All these divisions do no reunite the family. They sever it and prevent the parties from talking about anything important, particularly how the program is going about or went about 'changing' the kid.
The program literally could surplant the parents role until a kid graduated college.
While it appears to have worked for you, there is no definitive answer as to why that is, or if the change will be permanent OR if it would have ocurred naturally without the program. There is certainly ample evidence to show that almost all kids grow and mature out of the rough spots. And ample evidence that when there is parent/child struggles, it is the PARENT who needs help. To blame the kid for the family issues is misguided and wrong.
One thing we absolutely know, is that people change when they have some kind of internal shift that results in a desire to change for themselves, OR when they fear external consequences. Genuine change can not be forced by an external entity. That is major flaw in the basic design and philosophy of all programs.
Programs know this. That's why they resort to austere and abusive means- combined with an extended period of isolating the kid from family and the world and, if at all possible the continued division of parent-child post graduation. Punitive environments do not foster genuine positive change- look at prisons.
Ironically, programs are in a position to bring about some real valuable change. They do not possess the necessary skills to build close and trusting relationships with parents and kids, because they have incarcerated the wrong person, and there's too much distance between parent and child. The parent needs the attention, and it is counter-productive to warehouse and torture the kid for the parents inadequacies.
Program owners and staff are not trained well. Why? Because our institutions of higher learning are not teaching effective skills. Modifying behavior with reward and punishment is easier. Requires less thought and certainly doesn't require any real caring. You can't teach or legislate love and respect. And many of the very people who praise the benefits of BM, would not condone the programs methods and policies. They are excessively harsh and abusive- flawed by design. The truth will be revealed eventually. Hopefully sooner than later.
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I am absolutely sickened by this news. The poor helpless, fragile little girl, I pray she is at peace, and hope that her parents suffer forever for what they have done. It simply isn't that difficult to get truthful information on these places, the screwed up parents of these babies likely spend more time planning their vacations than planning the fate of their child. Every last one of these places should be shut down.
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First of all, I was talking to kids that were already in the program. And actually quite the opposite. You said that you think that I was recomending the program to them. That is wrong. I did not like the program, I thought that it was stupid, and I didn't need to be there. I couldn't wait to leave. But what I did talk to others about was about things they did when they were at home. What their relationship was like with their parents. I was only talked to them about whatever they wanted to talk about. When I was a lower level, an upper level taking the time to come and talk to me, and not talk program meant a lot to me. Throughout the time I was in the program, I was very cynicall and I hated it there. It wasn't untill after I left that I realized alot of things I had been missing while I was their.
You can say whatever you want about it being a cult. And you can say that you think that I have been brainwashed, I know I haven't. How do I know that? Because I still have all of the same friends, I have a better personality, and I have more fun than I did before I went into the program. If I had been brainwashed that wouldn't be possible.
You say that you think all of the other graduates will tell you the same thing I do just because they have been brainwashed. Let me ask you this, if you asked all of the graduates to pick the thing they gained the most from the program, what do you think it would be? I bet all of them will tell you the best thing they got out of the program was the friends they gained there. For me, the first kid that ever met in the program are still in contact today. Those are my real friends, I have them not because of drugs or alcohol, but because we have fun. Say what you want, but if you ever took the time to do any real research, and that doesn't mean just the negative sites. I mean really looking, you would get a different picture. If I met you on the street, I bet you would not be able to tell that I had been to one of these schools. So if the schools purpose was to brainwash me, they did a really bad job.
Deborah, you said a lot. When I read what you wrote I noticed you said something about how blaming the kids isn't fair, when it is the parents that need the help. Well, the program agrees with you there. All of the seminars that us kids have to go through the parents are supposed to go through too. And I know in those they do tell the parents that it is not the kid that is messed up, they say that it is the parents fault too.
Believe me when I say that I know that graduation does not equal success. My best friend throughout the time we their together graduated before me and went home, slipped back, smoked a joint that was laced and overdosed and went into a comma for 2 weeks before dieing. I personnaly have other friends that graduated and have not been "sucessful". The one thing that I see that they have going for them that other kids don't, is that when they decide they want to change, they already have the friends to turn to. If any one of my program friends called me at any time, and needed help I would drop everything and help them. Other kids that haven't been through the program, may not have a list of people that they could call day or night and get that kind of help.
In no way do I think that the program is "perfect". Like I said before, while I was their I didn't always enjoy it. I do however see value in it, if nothing else than for the friendships that I gained. And if that is the only thing I gained, which it isn't, that would be good enough for me.
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Program Grad,
You mention repeatedly that you made best friends while in the Program.That you are in contact with those friends today.
Please help me understand how that is possible. My experience of the program was that the kids are NOT allowed to take phone numbers or addresses home with them.
I personally experienced parents who allowed their child to be kept at the facility ,dropped to level one or two during PC what ever it was ,the last PC.The one where she was to be going home.Because this kid did not follow that rule and had a list of her "friends" numbers .
I remeber thinking how very sick can that be. The parents were way over the top. PROGRAMMED.
Explain how you mangaged to get friends phone numbers.
I always thought it was a ridiculous rule.
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you say.....
" But what I did talk to others about was about things they did when they were at home. What their relationship was like with their parents. I was only talked to them about whatever they wanted to talk about. When I was a lower level, an upper level taking the time to come and talk to me, and not talk program meant a lot to me."
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The WWASPS Program format is not different in one facility from another. Your experience is not the experience of children numbering in the hundreds who have told their stories when they get out. In fact, in the 2 intense years I have been involved with WWASPS, I have never once heard a graduate speak of meaningful friendly talks with other students about home and family troubles.
My child was pulled at Level II after 10 months in Casa by the Sea. During that long time, she never spoke directly to her parent. She was not allowed to speak to other students during the day except for "group". When she first entered, her dorm of 25 girls was allowed bedtime talk of 10 minutes in the dark. In short order, when the talk was discovered to center on "displeasure" with the program, the bedtime talk period became 5 minutes of closely-monitored conversations and topics, Level III's only, with other girls allowed to listen but not contribute.
Girls became friends, but conversations were only snatched behind the back of staff or during basketball games. Giving hand signals while playing the games (forbidden) became a game in itself. The background lives of the girls were not shared in one-on-one conversations. Instead, the required daily journal entries of 2 pages were read in group the next day...and if there was not enough "angst" or revelling in new "enlightenments" of the Program, the kids were required to make it up...just fill the page and read your private diary the next day. That's how you learn things and become "friends" with people you can't even talk to.
Visitors often speak of the weird silence in an institution of several hundred teenagers. There is chatter among Upper Levels (about to graduate) who are paraded before parents as typical of the experience their children will have at WWASPS. These same kids are specifically threatened with not contacting friends when on a near-graduation home trip...including former Program friends, if they could even find them. Have you heard of a 5-year class reunion for WWASPS Class of 2000? Nope. You are a "graduate", are you not, and school graduates typically reconvene away from the school. Prep school graduates wear school colors for years, keep detailed newsletters going about graduates' lives, and...ta-da!...send money back as alumni for the rest of their lives. Now why would WWASPS pass up such an opportunity to let Program graduates get together, exchange phone numbers, publish a listing of the pleased students, promote allegiance to the Program that helped them reform their lives? The Program cannot afford to have two or more people get together and compare notes, even if the children could later send gobs of money, so those children go to "negative sites" like this one.
Even you, Dear Graduate, must have heard the somewhat-desperate invitation from your local support group to have Program kids attend their meetings. The support groups are really heavy on rah-rah parents, but the kids who have been through it are noticeably absent. If a kid does come, it is ONCE, usually answering a demanding parent. The farther away these kids get from the Program in time, the less they will agree to support it publically. Wouldn't it be nice for a support group to sponsor a graduates' Night at Disneyland? Yeah, right.
You said, "...Other kids that haven't been through the program, may not have a list of people that they could call day or night and get that kind of help." I can't imagine why you think that. Friendship bonds are made constantly, and survive well without a traumatic Program as a common experience.
There is absolutely no opportunity for casual exchange and development of supporting friendships in WWASPS. It is important for the Program to position itself as the only authority or nurturing role, and the Program definitely does not allow young people to mingle and chat freely as do most teens. A graduate apparently needs to be out for a year or more to understand what "friends" really are.
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Spots - Who told you all this, your Level 2 child? Maybe Casa is different, so if you had visited SCL you would not have experienced any of what you wrote. I can't speak of Casa by the Sea, but SCL is nothing like what you describe.
The person that wrote about friendships he/she had while there and that continue is my experience as well. Phone numbers are exchanged at the graduation seminar with the parents present. Friendships are not discouraged, but rather encouraged.
When I attended the meetings in Arizona and the Bay Area, the grads and early outs "chose" to go to the support group meetings. They go to connect with each other, but they are also a very important part of the meeting, not only for the parents, but for each other. Yes, some do only go once, but most go for several months. I've never heard one of them say they liked being in a program, but I hear over and over how they know what's really important in their lives now, and it's not drugs or self-destruction. They have a great support system if they use it.
I'm saddened by the news of the girl that took her life. I doubt if there is blame, either of the girl or of the care she received. If someone wants to commit suicide, they will find a way. This is just my opinion, but I would imagine her pain started long before she was admitted.
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My son tells the same story as Spots granddaughter as far as the forbidden fruit of phone numbers. Consequences for having this info are serious if caught.
I expected you to say what you said about the exchange of info at graduation. But what if you were a level three kid and were found with a list of numbers of level 1,2 and 3 kids? What then?
WHY?
That is the question.
As for this poor kid; I have my doubts it was in fact suicide. I suspect it was a restraint death and the suicide story just the program (as always) deflecting blame for what they did onto the kid.
However, if it was suicide, the program is still fully responsible for this tragedy. In their own statement they say she was at risk. They are not qualified to counsel suicidal teens; the program is grossly inappropriate for any mentally ill person; and they are libel for having accepted her into care. In my opinion.
I'm hoping the family isn't so blinded by the veil of tears ; or programmed into idiocy; that they can't see this. I hope they start screaming for justice.
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Yes, it is a huge consequence to have phone numbers while you are in the program, but during PC3, right before I went home. There is a part of the seminar dedicated to allowing graduates to exchange numbers. On top of that, it is possible to find out anyone's phone number on the internet. About not being able to talk to anyone. I had never heard that before. Your right, there are times, when we are supposed to be quite. Like in school, in group, or other specified times. The only restriction other than those times is that they don't allow two level one's talk to eachother, or a level one and a level two. Why? Because typically those are the kids that are angry, and they don't want those kids sitting around being negative all day together. Because then they won't do anything. They will just sit there and talk about how much everything sucks.
About the friends thing. Without a doubt those people are my best friends ever. Have you ever been through something that was incredibly hard physically or mentally? Well, the program is extremely mentally and emotionally hard. Whenever anyone goes through anything like that they become extremely close. Like sports teams. A sports team sweats, bleads, succeeds and fails together. Being in the program, there is no sweating or bleading, but there is a lot of success's and failures we go through. And when you add the fact that I lived with these people, it makes them even closer. It is hard to explain, and couldn't imagine trying to understand it coming from anyone elses perspective. The other kids there were my only way to vent.
About how kids never go to support group meetings. That isn't entirely accurate. Since I have graduated I have been to 4 support group meetings, and the only reason I haven't been to more, is that I only graduated in May, and now I am now in college. I also have done one better, I have staffed two parent seminars. And now you are probably going to say that I am the only one that does that. And I will resond by saying that I am not. In the two I staffed, each one had a different graduate with me staffing. And the seminars in Chicage had an entire staffing team made up of like 4 or 5 graduates for a couple of seminars throughout the summer. You have to remember that when we graduate, we all get jobs and goto school. We don't have tons of free time. So the only time most graduates can get involved is during the summer.
Whoever said that they thought this was a restraint death, I don't know how you could think something like that. And personnaly when I read that, I got a little pissed off. Instead of you mourning her death or trying to find ways to help depressed kids, all you have to say is that it is all the programs fault. Do you know what you are talking abuot? Have you done any real research? As sad as it is kids commit suicide all the time in todays society. It is terribly sad that it happened, and me being a graduate from Spring Creek, it hurts me a little more. But don't down grade her death by using her as a way for you to carry out your self rightous mission of trying to close down these facilities. If you met the people that work at Spring Creek, you could never say that. In the entire time I was there, they didn't treat me as a "prisoner", or a "captive". But they treated me as a friend, when I started to treat them with respect.
I can not, and I will not speak to some of the things that Ken Kay, and others up there with him have said, because I have never met them. But for Cameron(owner of Spring Creek), and the others that work at Spring Creek I can say this. They helped me beyond what I ever could have asked for. They were there for me, when I needed someone. And they aren't perfect either. Some of them had struggles (simmilar to kids in program) when they were younger. That makes them more than qualified in my eyes. I have been to see counselors, and I have been to see "professionals", they pretend that there lives are perfect, and act as if they never had any problems at all in their life. The people at Spring Creek, while they may not have a pHD, but there willingness to talk about their lives in comparison is something that I learned more from than any doctor telling me what I need to do, and what is wrong with me.
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Individual program graduate person-type, (I'm working hard not to use any patronizing diminutives here) I know it's not your fault that you were sent, and that you just got out in May, but keep in mind that you may well feel very different about your experiences in five years or so. Many others have.
On the other hand, if you are perfectly happy and never have another day of trouble in the world, great.
Good luck with all that.
Timoclea
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Many grads have felt differently about their experiences several years down the road. That's good news, really. I feel differently about many experiences in my life than I did when they happened. All in a good way.
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Hey, I am the graduate that has been posting here a couple of times.
Your right, I may feel differently a couple years down the road. But I doubt it. But if I do, I do. Right now, I honestly feel that it was good for me. When I read alot of the negatives, and some of the people don't seem even willing to even listen to what I have to say, it gets frustrating. One person asked why they should believe me? That is a good question. There are a lot that probably feel the same way, but yet these same people will sit there and post things that they heard about the abuses. Well unless they actually lived it then they trusted someone else on the internet. Why can't you listen to me? Just because I am not agreeing with what the popular thing to do on these forums is. I was there, I know there was no abuse. If you don't believe me, there is nothing I can do. All I want to do is just let people know what I expierenced.
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Hey Brown - just wait, you'll be you are brainwashed and don't even know it. LOL! :wink:
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On 2004-10-11 22:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey Brown - just wait, you'll be you are brainwashed and don't even know it. LOL! :wink: "
I missed a word or two - What I meant to say is: just wait, you'll be accused of being brainwashed and don't even know it.
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Well, i am definitly not brainwashed, and if that was the goal of the program like I said before, they did a really bad job. I have the same brain, I like the same things, I have much of the same friends, i have the same personality. I know alot of you out there probably believe that I am just brainwashed, and that all graduates are too. But I bet if you met any graduate on the street, at work, or even were friends with one. I bet you would have no idea that they were in the program unless they told you.
Oh yeah, not everyone likes the program that graduates. I don't. But what I do have is a huge respect for it and the staff that work there day and night. They give up about 50% of their lives to the program. They are there all the time. And give up holidays with their families some times. They don't complain, why? Because they really are there to help me and the thousands of others that are there or have been there. When people talk about the "beatings" and the "mocking" that the staff take part in, it takes away from the committment that they put forth. Especially when those stories aren't even true.
I don't the Owners of WWASP. I do know the owner of Spring Creek. And I know that he truly does care. I can tell you that he has personnally given alot to the facility up there. He is a very hands on owner. He really takes an interest in the programs of all the kids he can. Throughout my time there, I got to talk to him a couple of different times. Every time he helped me whether he realized it or not. The owners of WWASP (Ken Kay and them) may be complete assholes. I would have no idea. But believe me, the people that are there day in and day out do care and really try to help.
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I find it amazing, the way Brown and the other cult member say the exact same things, using the exact same words... creepy.
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And I find it amazing how incredibly stupid and ignorant you truly can be. Heard any other "cult members" say that one before? It is the people like you that sit there and don't have any first hand knowledge at all, and just repeat things that you here others say. And then accuse me of being the one that is a member of a "cult." And say that I say everything using the same words that all the other "cult" members use.
Actually really look. They don't hide anything. If you really look, you can find stories, and pictures that are from these places. You could if you wanted. But then again you are probably just happy sitting there in your ignorance.
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Relax, Brown. This is not a group session. Fortunately for me, I'm not in a WWASP concentration camp, so there's no need to give me "feedback". Save that for your program buddies.
You say, "really look". I looked. I read The Source, I read WWASP propagnda sites, and I read many sites such as this. It just doesn't add up, Brown.
Brainwashing can be defined as Doublethink, meaning, the ability to see two contradicting realities at the same time. That is what you do. You the "reality" of program ideology, and you see the real world reality, of abuse, torture, and cultic mentality. Unable to sort out teh real from the not, due to your programming, you turn to the one and only answer: WWASP's answer.
Right now, trying to talk to you would not mean much. You are still under the influence. However, I would like to talk to you 5 years from now, when some of it will undoubtly wear off.
I wish you good luck and happiness in your life. You deserve some of that after everything you've been through.
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:???: Hi brown, I got a question for you:
What is a PC3? Is it some code for something?
Aqua Fortis
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PC3 is the final Parent-Child Seminar, used by WWASP to re-construct the relationships between the incarcerated child and the rest of the family in any manner they see fit.
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Anonymous, you were close, but a little off.
PC3 is when the parents and the child are reunited at the very end of the program. It is the program graduation. And during the seminar entire seminar there is almost no intervention from the staff at all. They just guide the parents and kids as to what to talk about. The things that the kids and parents talk about is things like what is going to be the kids schedule when the kids go home.
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What's going to be the kid's "schedule" back home? Why does a kid need a schedule at home?
Probably so that the parents could keep a program-like control over them, by exercising means similar to those used by the program (scheduling daily activities, etc.)
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Why do kids need a schedule for when they get home? When us kids were home originally we had no schedule, and we had no restrictions. What is wrong with having a little structure. It kept me out of trouble.
If you had a kid that came home would you let him just do whatever he wanted to do? That would just lead him to going over to the same friends that he had before he went to the program.
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So even after they graduate, kids cannot be trusted and cannot be left unsupervised, even for a minute. Not only that, they need a daily schedule, because if they're be left on their own, they run straight ot the door to their druggie friends, right?
So many excuses for pure torture.
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And you wonder why so many of these kids, five years on when the brainwashing cracks wide open, kick their parents the hell out of their lives?
:roll:
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No, I didn't mention anything about trust. I said that at PC3 the parents and kids sit down and together talk about what their schedule is going to be. When you come from living in a facility where your time is very closely monitored, then to go home, it was confronting to at least have an idea of what I was going to do. If the graduate doesn't want to have a schedule they don't have to.
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When you say "confronting" in the previous post, would you consider that as a typo or is it more like a Fruedian Slip?
Also, I have read about how many of the kids that "opt out" at 18 have been in one or more of the wwasp facilities for over 2 years. My point is: These are programs from which kids are supposed to graduate, and when they don't, their families close the door on them. It appears to be a situation where the non-graduate 18 and older kids are left to fend for themselves, often right after leaving the facility that very same day. Example- (Homeless shelters) If I was escorted to one of these programs as a kid at 16 years old, didn't apparently agree with, believe in, or otherwise failed to internalize the program mantras in 2 years, I doubt if I ever would graduate. However, I would also believe that I should NOT be excommunicated from my family and left to fend on my own without even as much as a roof over my head. This reeks of some degree of extortion. How can you justify this Brown? Why are kids shut out of the family if they take their "exit plan"? :???: Please elaborate if at all possible. I am interested to hear your perspective on this little part of this otherwise BIG picture.
Aqua Fortis
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The Program suggested EXIT plan is really SICK isnt it.
So much for "Whole and Healthy Families"
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Brown,
The word is contract isnt it?
More control over their lives. To ease back into life as they should have experienced it,not in a overly controlled intsitutionalized enviornment,run by inept jailers.
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Your right, the word is contract. But what the "Contract" says is not controlled by the program. My contract, the program was mad that I made it the way I did. You are right, they recommend that when students go home, that they should put restrictions on themselves. The point of the contract is so that the parents know what to expect of the kid when he or she comes home. The only people that have any say in what goes into the contract is the student and the parents.
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I love the home contract concept! And if all of you put your WWASP-is-a-cult biases aside you might learn something. A home contract establishes a set of values for the home and rules for parents and kids to follow. It is a simple tool for promoting accountability. WWASP does not dictate what the home contract looks like. The parents and the kids create it. The ?Why does a kid need a schedule at home ?? crack had me laughing on the floor. Maybe your lil-Johnnie doesn?t need one, but mine sure will.
I think this thread is way off-topic. I thought we were grieving for the parents who lost a child???
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What's the penalty for breaking the contract?
Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
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There?s no set answer to your question other than, well, I guess it depends on the circumstances. As our laws are enacted for three basic reasons: to protect an individual from doing harm to themselves, to protect you from being harmed by others, or to protect society?s value system. Within our laws lie degrees of deviation. For example, not wearing your helmet does not carry the same punishment as armed robbery. The home contract establishes the ?laws of the house?. The home contract rules and punishments are negotiated between the parents and kids until a consensus is reached. All the home contract does is eliminate ambiguity and makes kids AND parents accountable.
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Indeed - we are mourning the loss of another casualty of the teen-help industry. A young girl who was obviously mentally ill - a young girl who was more than likely further traumatized by the torture of WWASP refers to as "observation." Observation is more like isolation and solitary confinement. Something that is truly counterindicated for a child suffering from depression with suicidal ideation. On top of this the girl was probably suffering from feelings of abandoment - since parents sent her to a facility with a horendous reputation for every type of abuse - including sexual. It was a bad choice and the wrong therapy. And there will not be another chance with this child.
When I started as a federal narcotics agent, the budget that we were working with, it was less than $5 million a year, and there was only 125 agents for the entire world to work the narcotic trade that we were fighting in those days. Times have changed. The gluttony has grown.
--Nick Navarro, former Broward, FL Sherrif
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Ya know Cherish, its really much worse than simple isolation. There is the ever present aspect of the forced "stress position" and silence an hunger and lack of rest room breaks - it amounts to "soft" torture; and if the kid is not willing or able to maintain the Stress position or silence then they get a dose of more concrete torture.
This is emotionally traumatizing for even mentally healthy kids. Imagine how awful it would be for a boy or girl who is mentally ill??
Horrible.
I believe with all my heart wwasp is liable for this girls death.
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Cherish, what?s your point? Maybe you?ve fallen down BuzzKill?s deluded slippery-slope. You would?ve been much better served saying ?Indeed ? we are mourning the loss.? and just left it at that. It?s terribly, terribly sad that this happened. My thoughts and prayers are with the parents and SLCA family members of this teen.
The facts are, one out of every twelve young adults (ages 15 to 24) attempt suicide. Teen suicide is the third, or fourth depending on the year, leading cause of death over the last five years. Should that be blamed on the Teen Help Industry as well? You guys should be ashamed assigning blame without facts. These pointless, baseless comments reflect who you really are.
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On 2004-10-15 13:01:00, Honda Rider wrote:
All the home contract does is eliminate ambiguity and makes kids AND parents accountable.
Really? Cause I've heard repeatedly of "exit" plans that include either disowning the kid--complete w/ chaning the locks on the family home--and/or return to the Program. The way you describe it it sounds just so sweet and sensible. But it doesn't always work out that way.
Here's how it works out sometimes.
Lost Boy
Painful journey through childhood ends with tragedy in Texas
EL PASO, Tex. ? It was nothing new for Corey Murphy and his mother Laura to argue. And it was nothing new for Laura to gain the upper hand.
But this time, the quiet 17-year-old boy was about to end the arguing forever.
Early in the afternoon of March 21, he strode into the family kitchen, grabbed a black .38-caliber handgun from the top of the refrigerator and bolted for his room.
A shot rang out.
At 1:01 p.m., El Paso fire department pumper 22 and paramedic van 11A got the call: "Suicide in progress."
Laura Murphy burst into her son's room.
He had fired a bullet into the wall. Now, he stood by a love seat in the back of his room, gun in hand.
Read on: http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/des ... esp1.shtml (http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/desperate/site-desperate/0702desp1.shtml)
What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from saying that
they don't like something to saying that the government should forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very long.
--Thomas Sowell
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Antigen, I have other things to do today so the exit plans discussion will have to wait until another time. Exit plans and home contracts are two separate things. Thanks for the compliment on my explanation of the home contract. You?re very intuitive. It is a sensible approach. Although, I think the sweet part might be over the top.
I think your Sowell quote supports my point perfectly. Just because you and others around you don?t like WWASP?s approach the Policy Makers shouldn?t be called upon to forbid it. Wouldn?t that infringe on my freedom to choose what I and others believe is the right course of action. Again, great quote.
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On 2004-10-16 09:04:00, Honda Rider wrote:
Just because you and others around you don?t like WWASP?s approach the Policy Makers shouldn?t be called upon to forbid it. Wouldn?t that infringe on my freedom to choose what I and others believe is the right course of action. Again, great quote.
"
Oh, you're mistaken about my position on new policy. I don't advocate for new regulations, new regulators, etc. I just want current law enforced. It's already illegal to torture anyone, including your own kid, even if you hire someone to do it for you. This has nothing to do w/ my or anyone else's preferences, it's the law.
What's more, I believe that, for the most part, people abide by the law because they agree w/ it. It's very clear if you look at the difference between laws that people routinely break and those that most people obey. You use your headlights and turn signals because you know that, if you don't, you're likely to wreck and hurt yourself and/or others. But waiters underrepot tips to save on taxes and around half or more of the population has, at some point, smoked a joint or a blunt or a bong.
Right now, it's considered normal and right to abuse young people who can't or won't conform to the latest arbitrary laws and regulations. That's what I'm trying to change.
Of course you "dont' have time" to discuss this. So, for those interested, here's the section on Exit Plans.
The 'exit plan'
Now came the "exit plan," Teen Help's final step for a child who has "graduated."
Until a teen reaches the age of majority ? 17 in Texas ? the procedure for handling "non-working behavior" of a graduate is to do what Laura did with Corey: send him back to Teen Help.
But after the age of majority, a more severe remedy is recommended.
Teen Help encourages parents of children who remain defiant to have little personal contact with them and to offer them almost no financial support for a set period of time.
It suggests that parents keep health insurance on the teen for six months and give their child $30 and three nights' lodging in a motel. Otherwise, teens are on their own.
The "exit plan" spells out the rules of banishment and the conditions, if any, for the child's return to the family.
The only way of re-entering the home is for the adolescent to agree to abide by the parents' rules.
David Gilcrease, who designed Teen Help's behavior modification seminars, hit upon the exit plan after he noticed that some kids in the program were merely going through the motions, trying to hold out until they reached adult age, when the program no longer could legally confine them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DESPERATE MEASURES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Series
Epilogue:
Lost Boy
From Sterling to Samoa
A mother's concern
An international network
The state intervenes
An Internet support group
Stuck in Samoa
On to Montana
The 'exit plan'
Over the edge
Epilogue
Share your thoughts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We do the exit plans because the exit plans work," says Teen Help's Kay. "We know it works. It works for thousands of families.
" ... If you have a set of rules in your home, and if that kid, if they are not living by the rules and if their behavior is really threatening to themselves and to others, you have to take drastic measures.
"Sometimes the only thing that you can do is tell them that if you are going to continue this behavior, that's up to you. You're a big boy or a big girl now. But you can't live in this home while you do it."
In the months before his death, Laura and Corey often talked about the "exit plan," Laura told the News.
Back from Spring Creek Lodge last summer, Corey still had a way to go in Laura's eyes.
Last October, a month before his 17th birthday, Laura was contemplating kicking Corey out of the house.
She told fellow Teen Help parents that Corey was "wavering ... His ability to walk the straight and narrow is still in question for me. He's walking close to the edge. If he ever makes the decision to jump over, he's gone from my house and he'll have to take what the world gives him with no help from me."
In another post, Laura wrote: "I've made it really clear to my son that if the law gets involved and he's back on the dope, I won't even bail him out ? he'll take the fall. The good thing is that he KNOWS I mean it."
When Corey turned 17 Nov. 23, Laura wrote:
"It's been a LONG haul through his teens (of course, they aren't over yet), but today is the day that I am able to insist that the STATE make Corey take his own responsibility," she wrote. "Today is the day whereby, in the great state of Texas, a teen is considered old enough to be accountable and no longer drags parents into 'juvenile' concerns.
" ... I take my son to dinner tonight to celebrate his 'majority.' And to celebrate my freedom to be involved ? or not ? as my parental judgment tells me is appropriate when my kids ask me to do something ... like help them out of a jam of their own making. Yaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!"
Necessity is the excuse for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of the tyrant and the creed of the slave.
-- William Pitt, 1763
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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***The facts are, one out of every twelve young adults (ages 15 to 24) attempt suicide.
Can you provide a reputable link to the stats you presented?
***Teen suicide is the third, or fourth depending on the year, leading cause of death over the last five years. Should that be blamed on the Teen Help Industry as well? You guys should be ashamed assigning blame without facts. These pointless, baseless comments reflect who you really are.***
Here are the facts:
2001 Suicides for 15-24 yr olds
3,971 2,130 or 53% from firearms
Suicides for 13-18
1,327 48% firearm 40% suffocation
Given that half of suicides in both age groups are from firearms, you think some blame might be placed on parents who leave firearms accessible to their children? In Corey's case the firearm was kept on the refrigerator. Good lord, an open invitation. Perhaps his mother should be serving time for ignorance.
The second leading cause is suffocation. With the promise of high security 24/7/365, which is a big selling point for the industry, "We can watch your kid around the clock, you can't". Yeh, there should be safeguards in place for kids who are extremely distressed and accountability on the part of the program. And I don't mean, being isolated in a small cold room.
And by all means, no kid, especially a highly distressed kid should be subjected to the 'treatment' provided in these programs. Humiliation, unrealistic expectations, unrealistic consequences, austere punishments are not what is called for when someone is distressed, and certainly not for one who is hopeless.
If these programs can not restore hope in severely distressed kids, they should not accept them.
Another ongoing argument is the 'one size fits all' approach does not work.
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On 2004-10-16 09:04:00, Honda Rider wrote:<
I think your Sowell quote supports my point perfectly. Just because you and others around you don?t like WWASP?s approach the Policy Makers shouldn?t be called upon to forbid it. Wouldn?t that infringe on my freedom to choose what I and others believe is the right course of action. Again, great quote."
You mean like destructive control and abandonment? You really think that parents turning their backs on their children to control their behavior by giving them that "choice," is freedom? You have a warped perception of unconditional love, HR. Meanwhile, your way of thinking is ruining lives, and has been for several decades, and will always be the worst "course of action."
That quote in no way relates to what you're talking about. However, I understand that sick-minded individuals, who make excuses for what is commonly known as abuse and neglect, have a way of twisting anything into their way of thinking. You may be fooling some, but you?re not fooling all.
It is one of the most beautiful compensations of life, that no man can sincerely try to help another without helping himself.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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:wave: Hey, Brown---
There's a lot of genuine love out here for you. Judging from your posts, I guess some of our (SCL's) "cult" terms would include courage, integrity, and honor. Thanks for the staff acknowledgement. Blessings . . .
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It looks like SCL is doing some damage control here. I don't buy it. I've read too many horror stories - and the fact that Ken Kay admitted to keeping a girl "on her face" for 18 months in an observation room is enough for me. WWASP programs use abusive tactics. They must not admit children with diagnosed mental illnesses such as depression. Obviously this child was depressed. Keeping her in "observation" was enough to push her way over the edge. Depressed people DO NOT NEED WWASP's version of tough love. They need compassion, love and understanding.
Parents who place their children in these hell holes like SCL have problems. Many of the children are survivors of divorse. The parents just don't want to deal with the repercussions of their decisions to fracture the family. Or they are just too busy to give the child any time.
Research has shown that over 60% of children who abuse substances have parents who abuse substances. Parents who use these programs need to take a good look at themselves. Harming their children in one of the WWASP programs will only cause more harm to their children.....
You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war.
--Albert Einstein
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If parents were given the TRUTH of the program's techniques than they could make an informed choice.
In my experience the program is presented in an entirely diffierent light than what was relly taking place so I found out much later.
For example: quality education,not to be true,
No restraints take place not, to be true.
Medical care ,not to be true.......
Deceit and fraud is perpetrated upon parents.
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A thourough Inter-net search should be completed prior to enrolling a child in any school. Any program that limits the parent/child relationship should be suspect. This is the biggest red-flag.
These programs could change if parents made the following demands
1. Complete access to their children
2. daily visiting hours (even if it's only one hour)
3. Unmonitored phone calls and an available pay phone for student use.
4. Use of the Inter-net for one hour per day
5. Frequent inspections by CPS
6. Video Survailance of halls, observation rooms for protection of students. (Pediatric Units have them now) This would not only protect students it could protect staff from false accusations...."People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
"Isn't your pants' zipper supposed to be in the front?"
--Hobbs to Calvin
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I think the suggestions nite owl has made are reasonable and would go a long way to stopping the abuse. I am not so sure about the internet use, but some use of the net - the ability to email family without supervision or editing would be a important improvement.
I don't so much trust state inspection - as these people are low paid, and prone to corruption as a result. It might only give an abusive program one more defense against the charges of abuse if they have paid off social workers claiming all is well. But, still, then there would be someone to hold accountable with the state; and that might be helpful.
As for doing an internet search. . .
This might be more helpful now than in days past; but not so long ago all I could bring up was positive sites - Lots of positive sites. I, in my ignorance, completely misunderstood what this meant. (Wow, these guys must be great; look at all the sites that refer to them!) What a fool. I know. Now, I know. But then? Had no clue.
And the anon poster suggesting parents would never go into this if they were told upfront what the real circumstances are is absolutely correct. It is as far as I am concerned a gross fraud perpetrated upon the parents. And then the cultic mind control sets in. Diabolically clever.
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My 1st post. Yes, blame it on WWASP. You, my poor child are 100% (remember that term?) under the influence of mind control. Just type in mind control in your web browser and READ!! Just like i have been doing for 7 months. I know of a child at Cross Creek in Utah. Still at level 2, after 11 months!! She is trying to "work the program". I honestly feel she does not want to get up in levels as not to take on the new girls coming in daily at that place. Amazing how she goes up and then comes down. She will be turning 18 soon and they recently put her in Group B, with all the rest of the "soon to be 18 year olders". Kind of makes you wonder what are they doing to those girls in Group B? Mabey a little reflection, listening to Tony Robbins day in and day out, or going to more Discoveries? We know what they are doing. More mind control. And you, you poor child, can't see it. You cannot see one foot in front of you. It's not your fault, you truly have no idea. However, you're in college now and I'm sure you can read. Just get on the net and READ, READ! You need help, help to get your mind back. I've read all your posts and feel so sorry for you. The Discoveries did the job on your mind and continued therafter. If you keep staffing, you will never learn to think on your own again. How wonderful,..the art of staffing. The "giving back" of ones self. Think about it! They don't pay you!! It's a brillant concept WWASP has put into place. You learned how to manipulate. How ironic is that? Was it not true that you had to manipulate the new girls coming in when you were at certain levels? What about he "reflection" times? Not manipulation? Did you ever wonder why your parents HAD to go to the Discovery Seminars? I agree, not all parents deserve to have children, but my s/o is the most giving man i have ever met. I wish I had a father like him growing up. He did all he could for his daughter and it's too bad he listened to his former wife. And for $4,000 a month, to make friends, give me a break! I'm glad you graduated the program. I do feel it was YOUR job to graduate high school, make friends, have a job and not do drugs. Many of the kids parents did exactly that! But then again, WWASP takes the desperate, guilt-ridden parents and make them feel it is their fault. Keep working the program,..keep the money coming and one more girl is dead,..dead. A loss so dear, it will certainly wake up thier "magical child" and when it does, they will need more help than thier child did. Yes, blame it on WWASP and the number one culprit, David Gilcrese. Go to Lifesprings on the web, type in his name..see where he came from. He's been doing this for over 40 years,..that bastard! Are you afraid of what you'll find out?
Good Luck & God Bless You
Youllsee
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There are some good threads here. For starters:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=10 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&topic=2587&forum=9&start=10)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=10 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=2757&forum=9&start=10)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=20 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=2399&forum=9&start=20)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=30 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=2757&forum=9&start=30)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=10 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&topic=3093&forum=9&start=10)
***
I like this quote from Derrick Jensen:
Fearing death, fearing life, fearing love, and fearing most of all the loss of control, we create social rules and institutions that mirror our fears and reinforce our destructive behaviors. Having surrounded ourselves with images of ourselves, and having silenced all others, we can now pretend that the false-front world we've created is instead the world we've been given. We can pertend the world is a very dangerous place, where dogs eat dogs, where children and others must be beaten into submission, where a fierce struggle takes place in which only the strongest, meanest, most unethical and hateful survive, and ultimately where we die alone and afraid. Any threat to this illusion must be annihilated before it reminds us of what we've lost, what we've destroyed, and of what could have been.
What do you do, how tired do you get, when each day you struggle against an entire culture [Industry] based on the normalization of trauma-inducing behavior? There is no sanctuary.
~~Derrick Jensen
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Blame it on WWASP?
you bet.
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if it happens on YOUR property...then it's your liability...sorry. just one of the current problems of running a child warehouse...that's why they should have insurance and regulations governing these so called "places of help"
GUILTY!
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a child die and the general public doesn't even know her name?
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So what's new? This unregulated industry has grown so fast without any oversite whatsoever. There are political bribes and favors to pay back. So is it any wonder? This is much deeper than WWASP and involves those corrupt politicians who will allow children to suffer just to expand their political war chests, and cowardly authorities who look the other way due in part to the hope to someday seek higher elected office.
It is truly enough to sicken the soul of most human beings....[ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2004-11-11 20:03 ]
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i will burn these fuckers to the ground.
eyes down.
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i will burn these fuckers to the ground.
eyes down.
self correct?
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Burning the facilities to the ground isn't the answer. Violence only begets violence.
If you want a voluntary urine sample from me it'll have to be a taste test.
--Bumper Sticker
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Justice will eventually prevail against these child abusing sadistic pedophile murderers. WE WILL NEVER FORGET :skull:
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The girl who comitted suicide in October at SCLA was a relative of mine. I would appreciate any postings by anyone who was there at the time, knows anyone who was there, or has any more information about this incident. The "school" and WWASPS have been very tight lipped about this, and I have not been able to get any info at all from SCLA, as I am not direct, immediate family (i.e. a parent).
The girl's immediate family won't tell me anything, as they are pretending like it never happened- or that she never existed.
It was very difficult to even verify that it was her who died in October, but I am positive it was her, as the date on the death certificate is a match.
I want to know what she was going through, as well as if anyone has ideas about how I can find out if this death was investigated.
Any help would be appreciated.
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http://www.sociopranos.com/forums/threa ... &start=101 (http://www.sociopranos.com/forums/thread-view.asp?threadid=65&start=101)
legacie
Social Newbie
Posts: 15
Joined: 2005-01-07
Location: Hollywood
User Profile Subject : RE: The Last Resort - Tranquility Bay - 'behaviour-modification centre'
Posted : 2005-01-07 11:19 PM
Post #4042 - In reply to #4003
i was attending spring creek lodge academy at montana from 6-5-03 to 11-5-04. I was 30 feet from the cabin that the girl committed suicide at. She had been in the cabin when her group left the cabin. The Staff that was with the group forgot to check the cabin before they left. The girl, on Suicide watch (you are not given anything sharp, long and flexible (belt) or string etc.), committed suicide in the cabin with her t-shirt. She was found 45 minutes later, dead, by her staff. i witnessed it.
her family does not want her name to be known. their child in a program, and had committed suicide because in her condition mind you, she wanted to be free. would you want her name to be released if you were her parent??
The conversation continues.
You might find it useful.
The poster gives no email address, but maybe you can try to PM and see if they will respond.
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On 2005-06-02 15:48:00, cherish wisdom wrote:
"Burning the facilities to the ground isn't the answer. Violence only begets violence. If you want a voluntary urine sample from me it'll have to be a taste test.
--Bumper Sticker
"
burning the facilities down is preventing violence.
that quote deserves a repeat!
If you want a voluntary urine sample from me it'll have to be a taste test.
--Bumper Sticker
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And lest we forget...
apathy leads to more of the same.
I find it facinating and curious that we've
seen so many riots this year.
It's almost as if there's a underground pipeline of communication going on between kids in these warehouses.
More realistically, its probably just the only recourse these kids can rationally arrive at when they are sick of being abuse and being held incommunicado.
How are others thinking about that?
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On 2005-06-09 11:29:00, Deborah wrote:
"
And lest we forget...
apathy leads to more of the same.
I find it facinating and curious that we've
seen so many riots this year.
It's almost as if there's a underground pipeline of communication going on between kids in these warehouses.
More realistically, its probably just the only recourse these kids can rationally arrive at when they are sick of being abuse and being held incommunicado.
How are others thinking about that?"
Exactly. Sadly in our society it usually takes violence to promote change. The parents are told to not believe anything that is negative the kids in the programs say because it's manipulation. So if no one believes a kid and they are isolated from the world the only option to make someone listen is violence.
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I doubt there are inter-facility conspiracies to start riots, no need. The environment creates riots. Why do riots happen in prison? Riots only happen when people are being oppressed to the point they have no other choice but violence. If you've been at a WWASP facility, you know how easily a riot could break out. Problem is, they keep everyone in small groups, so it's hard to organize. Besides the fact, that all LOWER LEVELS cant even talk to each other. :roll: Lets hope for more riots, we need a serious teen revolution for this shit to change. There is no reason teens should give their human god given rights up willingly. FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS
_________________
As Mao Tse-tung once said the secret is simply to convince the ?patient? he was sick and that they had the cure.[ This Message was edited by: Exit Plan on 2005-06-09 14:00 ]
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If the guys who run these places were taken out someone would just rise up from the depths and take over. Thats the problem with a bunch of believers and a movement... it might have a spin put on it by the highers up, but its really hard to make them disperse.
Also, whoever did the deed would just be used for propaganda by the people in the industry of why they need to be able to treat kids, to fix them so they dont kill people.. or grow up and kill them, or whatever.
Also, as far as closing down the places, or theoretically, destroying them, they'd just be shipped elsewhere! Look at what happened to CASA. That filthy hellhole got closed down, right? Kids and staff just got redistributed.
The key issue is getting through to the parents, and reforms and regulation WITH TEETH to keep those stuck in a program safe, because in the good ole US of A, a parent can have a kid locked up and basically ruin their childhood just becuase they feel like it! Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those that torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C.S. Lewis, God In The Dock
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On 2005-06-09 11:29:00, Deborah wrote:
"
And lest we forget...
apathy leads to more of the same.
I find it facinating and curious that we've
seen so many riots this year.
It's almost as if there's a underground pipeline of communication going on between kids in these warehouses.
More realistically, its probably just the only recourse these kids can rationally arrive at when they are sick of being abuse and being held incommunicado.
How are others thinking about that?"
I think it's probably just more reporting, not really more frequent riots.And suffering is not a badge of honor. Experiencing tyranny does not deserve a bow or a kiss. The honor is in removing the stumbling stone. The honor is in the impolite destruction of tyranny through honest, powerful dialogue - not etiquette. Not political correctness.
Maximus
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I WAS I A WWASPS PROGRAM AND I WAS THERE WHEN THE GIRL KILLED HERSELF.. I DO NOT AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THE PROGRAM DOES.. BUT IN THE LONG RUN IT HELPPED ME ALOT.. I WOULD BE LYING IN MY COFFIN RIGHT NOW IF I DIDNT GET SENT THERE.. AND IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO START A RIOT THERE.. I TRIED.. DOESNT WORK... JUST THOUGHT I WOULD PUT MY 2 CENTS IN... :exclaim:
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:wstupid:
who are you.. really? :roll:
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Right, but I now know that there were at least half a dozen riots over the years at various Straight locations. I know it because I've gone out of my way to hook up w/ fellow Straight, Inc. vets and they've told me about them. Never once saw any published news story about any of them.
So I'm guessing that they do happen quite a bit more often than we might think. And I take it as a good sign that we're starting to see them get a little ink when they happen.
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins; all of them imaginary.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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i don't think burning a place down is a good idea because it is too dangerous to nice firemen.
i don't think legislation or regulation is going to do a damn thing to stop the shit either. is it not already illegal to abuse kids by depriving them of privacy, mail, food, proper clothing, etc.? i also think that it would be quite difficult to legislate against the brainwashing/thought control.
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this on is important please sign
bill to end institutionalized child abuse
http://www.petitiononline.com/hr1738/petition.html (http://www.petitiononline.com/hr1738/petition.html)