Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: spirithelps on October 04, 2004, 10:40:00 PM
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It's now an hour after sunset and Turn-About Ranch has a boy who ran at 5:30 still out there in the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument, alone, barefoot and on his own. This is some of the roughest desert on Earth, canyons, straight down cliffs, no roads. It's getting close to freezing at night, depending on where he is.
I went looking but that's like a needle in a haystack. Turn-About has one guy on horseback (probably back by now, though) and another on foot (I know he was coming back) and the rest in vehicles along the main roads. But it's a heck of a long way between those canyons and the main roads.
I'm praying. If anyone else is so inclined, I'm sure he could use it right now. I feel so helpless in this whole awful mess of an industry.
Toni
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So where are the helicopters with search lights?
A human life seems at least as important as a beached whale.
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Just back again from driving the roads. It's beginning to rain and lightning to the south and west of us. I've discovered they really don't have a plan, just wait for the kid to give up and get back to the road.
Heck, we don't even have cops here. A sheriff deputy lives in town and is on duty occasionally. Search and rescue is all volunteer local residents. They're gonna call them out in the morning.
Toni
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Search and rescue is that crappy? When I went to TAR, there was a story about three kids who escaped The Barn (not Roundy; they at least had shoes and stuff) who holed up in one of those canyons and get discovered by helicopters the third day out. The staff recounted it agitation, like they remember the fear of having to deal with the would-be litigious parents of dead children. There really isn't a comprehensive plan for any escaped child from the place. Usually they enlist the help of level 4's and 3's and do their redneck footstep-tracking bullshit. Who knows, maybe this kid will martyr himself and get the shithole closed down.
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Nope, he spent the night through rain and most of the next day out. They caught him in town. He escaped (I'll use that term 'cause I'm seeing these facilities more and more as prisons with no civil or legal rights) just before nightfall, so, yeah, they took some of the kids and drove the roads, but not enough time before dark for him to get to any roads.
Two others on horses and one on foot tracked him til dark, then returned. Staff drove the roads all night which is pretty crazy 'cause all he would have to do is see their headlights coming and ditch behind some bushes til they passed. So, I assume he returned to the main road during the night and made it the 13 miles or so to town on foot, I should say, on barefoot.
Pretty crazy. I would never, ever have placed my kid in these kinds of circumstances, totally out of their loop. The parents told TAR that he would run, yet, he was left alone, duh . . .
Toni
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I heard a story about some kids who escaped during a flash flood and got caught in quicksand. They couldn't budge.
They were discovered by a group of wilderness hikers who just happened to stumble upon them and got 'em out with ropes.
When I worked there, a group of Barn kids returned from a hike with Wayne all excited. They said they almost had to hike back to get help 'cause Wayne had gotten stuck in a vertical crack and couldn't get out. How come Wayne can take groups out by himself, without other staff members around, even the girls?
Toni
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Hey - Sprit - do you work for one of these places or just live by one? Just curious. All of these programs in the beautiful state of Utah need to be seriously investigated for child abuse. The children need to have some way to communicate with the outside world. Even prisoners can use a pay phone. Even prisoners can ask for a lawyer. These children are being denied basic human and civil rights. They are extremely vulnerable to physical, sexual, emotional, psychological and verbal abuse. Many suffer from diagnosed mental illnesses and these programs are inappropriate...
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
Douglas Adams, _Last Chance to See_
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The ongoing road block being- they're minors. They have rights- no they don't. It appears that the latter is accurate.
There's always more than one way to approach any situation. Consider what's happening in Texas.
Find out which programs CPS sends kids to. Hammer CPS for using fraudulent and abusive programs and paying for it with TAX DOLLARS. Demand an investigation of CPS and the facilities they refer to, by the state comptroller. Are kids in CPS-supported programs being illegally medicated or over medicated?
Is there any group organized in Utah to take such actions? How many advocates in Utah?
The shake down going on in Texas isn't directed at programs per se, but the entire abismal failure known as CPS- where a child is 5 times more likely to be hurt or killed in an out-of-home placement. CPS just happens to place children in RTCs and wilderness programs. While all programs won't be scrutinized or closed, there will be fewer, and with any luck things MIGHT improve for the kids who are destined to be warehoused in such torture chambers.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &forum=9&5 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5052&forum=9&5)
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Turn-About Ranch, Escalante, Utah is just down the road from my house. It's one of the bigger employers here now that the Fed gov has shut down all the rest of our economy (they're trying to drive us out of this little town to claim it for their namesake town of the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument which was stolen by Pres Clinton in 1996).
In one of my more desperate times earlier this year, I went to work for them. That lasted almost 2 months when I quit after turning in male staff wrestling with female students, the same male staff taking females off to work alone, and the same male staff trying to brainwash me into believing that I was coward after I had seen and heard all of this. First, I heard it from a female student who was interrupted mysteriously by the male staff who appeared out of nowhere as she talked to me, and then, just an hour later, God set up a scenario which allowed me to see it all with my own eyes.
I was at their Roundy facility just as a substitute 'cause someone went home sick and I didn't normally work there. The place felt so evil, I had seen and heard so much that I just wanted out. I sat down on the porch and prayed for God to get me out of there, and He did. Within 15 minutes of my prayer my supervisor was radioing me that my replacement was on their way and to return to the Barn where I normally worked.
I turned all of this in to the office, originally thinking that they'd take care of the problem. They didn't, they gave me a gold token and basically said, now shut up. So, then I quit and turned 'em into the Sheriff's Office, CPS, and their state licensor lady. All of these offices were originally aghast with my reports (particularly since a duct tape incident happened at Roundy the exact same day as I turned in my report). All 3 of these "protective" offices closed their cases within just days . . . no investigation at all even though they individually had said they would do an extensive investigation, get to the bottom of it, and they would force people to talk. Yeah, right, Mormons cover other Mormons' backs. I know, for the state of Utah, it's part of the "new economy" they want vs. the old economy they've shut down.
So, professionally before I moved to this little berg I was a business consultant and I saw plenty at Turn-About that needed correcting, just from their liability standpoint and implementing procedures to cover their asses from a lawsuit.
Now, I'm a researcher and writer who exposes the programs involved in the takeover of the world by the One World Order geeks -- the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, the United Nations and all of their affiliates of nonprofits that do a lot their dirty work for them.
For 15 years, I was one of northern Arizona's main environmental leaders. I'm used to raising the alarm and actively pursuing change. I got into enviro activism due to a prayer about my concern over haz waste burning near our home and a promise that I would do whatever it took to beat it. From this daily prayer, came project after project landing in my lap.
So, my daily prayer turned into I would do whatever work God needed done. I naturally ask Him for help along the way and for what I need to get the job done.
More here on my webpage, if you're interested:
http://www.spirithelps.com/about_us.htm (http://www.spirithelps.com/about_us.htm)
Yes, the kids need someone to talk to, but as staff there, I couldn't get them to trust me much, even though while raising my own kids, I was the neighborhood mom for everyone 'cause the other moms were never home. It was always a priority for me to be home, I changed my life so that I could fit more into my children's needs. Today, my kids are grown, but we have a very strong bond between us, and we're open and honest with each other. I never lied to my kids either, I try to walk my talk!
Toni
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There sure is alot of political corruption involved in this Utah teen-industry. You did the right thing by reporting this. Did you also report it to Ken Stettler at Health and Human Services. I would suggest that you do so - particularly since the investigatin went no where. I'd also report it to the press if nothing is done. Sometimes the media can light a fire so hot that someone will have to get off of their ass and do something.
You can e-mail Ken at www.kstettler@utah.gov (http://www.kstettler@utah.gov)
The spelling may not be right - so check it out.
Take Care Spirit.....Age is mind over matter. If you don't mind...it doesn't matter!
-- Chuck Gauran
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Wayne has been allowed to take Roundy kids (the meek, mild ones) on "nature walks" that usually run down to the TAR sluice and back, winding around to stop at some of his favorite Native American artifact sites.
He's not often an overnight staff, but I can recall a few times when he was present. One example: an ESL kid spoke French in his sleep and was placed on "impact" the following morning. Of course, the rules that come in the back of your blue folder prohibit the use of foreign language (lest you use them to organize escape or blaspheme, etc.)
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After reading this I felt strongly that I had to respond.
The young man attemtpting to bail out of Turn-About-Ranch was almost certainly my nephew Andy. His father (my brother) and I brought him to Escalante in desperation and fear for his life. Andy has a long history of drug and alcohol abuse, running away, theft, etc. He has put himself in harms way so many times that it is astonishing he is still alive. It's likely that he was at less risk in the canyon country on a cold night than in many other situations he has willingly placed himself in.
Andy was caght crossing a road after a couple of days and sent back to Roundy. A few days later he ran again and made it to the outskirts of Escalante. He broke into a house and fed himself canned goods from the pantry and hung low for a couple days. Because the water to the house was off he made a pretty good mess of the place. He also stole a knife from the house, presumably for defense. After a couple of days he called a taxi company in Cedar City (about 100 miles away) and arranged for them to meet him at the TAR headquarters after business hours. I gather that the driver showed up early and there were still people at the office. He (the driver) explained why he was there, and the TAR folks were able to snag Andy when he showed up for his cab.
After his attempts to run away from the ranch Andy was sent to another Aspen group program in Loa, Utah. Andy's behavior there included a hunger strike, refusal to use the toilet(soiling himself instead), and repeatedly sharpening branches and sticks and implying that he would use them offensively or self destuctively. Eventually the program people decided that he was unreachable.
Andy was placed in the Central Utah Youth Correctional Facility in Richfield, Utah charged in the break in and theft. He also has charges pending in his home state in association with a school break in, possessing stolen property, purse snatchinf, etc. Afetr a 45 day observation and assessment period the authorities in Utah came to the same conclusion the the Aspen people did: essentially, Andy is unreachable, unwilling or unable to participate in his own emotional growth, dismissive of all who try to help him, and unable to control his impulsive behavior.
Understand something else about Andy...this kid verges on genius. He is fully bi-lingual, extemely musically talented (I am personally in awe of how well this kid know a guitars fret board), and as crafty and persuasive as they come. He comes from a good family, they have their issues as so we all, but they are solid people who care deeply about him.
So now they are preparing to send Andy back to his home state. The state of Utah isn't interested in pursuing the issue with a kid who doesn't care, and evidently doesn't mind jail too much either. It's likely that he will be commited to a psychiatric institution. The courts at home will probably enforce a conviction of some sort (completeing a program entitled him to a diversion program that would have left his record clean). His parents have to foot the bill for a wasted effort, as well as a $200 cab trip. And ultimately Andy is no better and no better off.
Dont't fool yourself into thinking that I don't know what I'm talking about, or that I'm just periperally involved in all this.My daughter was at TAR for 92 days in 2003, and has done very well since.
She was chronically truant, failing her classes, experimenting with drugs, sexually active with an older boyfriend, etc. Homelife was hell, and the stress on my marriage and worklife was extreme.
The program at TAR has done wonders in many ways, but the single greatest contribution (in my opinion) was the opportunity for Emily ( another Emily) to re-invent herself in a new environment, uninfluenced by the social pressures and habits of her peer group at home. Once she was no longer having daily contact with her "friends" here, and in the rather austere and demanding environment at TAR, she was free and encouraged to take stock of herself in a supportive atmosphere. Accepting her own contribution to her decline (don't get me wrong here, my contribution was SUBSTANTIAL), seeing her way clear to integrate change in her life, and commiting herself to taking this new found attitude beyond the ranch has done a world of good for my daughter.
Emily is not perfect today by any means. She has had a lot of challenges since leaving the ranch. Not all her decisions were good ones, and she doesn't always see things as we do. But she has learned to learn from her mistakes. She considers consequences, and displays a willingness to learn from her mistakes. She is in school, doing well even great, and looking forward to college and adulthood. She has a sense of who she is that is independant of what others think of her, and she is commited to living a spiritually healthy and sane life.
I have asked her and she said that she never witnessed any abuse on the part of staff at TAR, although she indicated that they were pretty harsh if you got out of line. No, she wasn't very fond of Wayne, or her experience at Roundy, but she feels like it was a very important part of the program. I mean, after all, the whole objective of impact is to shake the kid up, right? And as far as Max Stewart goes, she was scared to death of him at first, then cautious, and finally became very fond of him and sees him today as one of the most positively influential people in her life.
The program at TAR is not life in a vacuum. Don't send your child there if you aren't able or willing to accept whatever role or contribution you have made as parents towards your son's problems. The counselers at TAR and the program itself is geared toward a broader base than simply what the childs problems may be, but offers great hope to families that can work together toward resolving a range of issues. If you think that TAR can solve all your problems for you by dealing with your child out in the boonies of southern Utah without your active and commited participation, think again. Save your money if you can't buy into your own contribution to the chaos that exists. I don't mean to imply that you are the whole problem, but teens are largely influenced by those around them, and parents can be awfully toxic.
I'm not certain what this forum is all about. Yes, there are some pretty awful programs out there, and a lot of charlatans too. I read a lot of bitching and moaning that sounds like a bunch of whiners who need to grow up, and also some obviously legitimate complaints. But without goood effective programs like TAR children like my daughter are going to have a hard time becoming the happy productive adults they deserve to be.
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Please report it to Ken Stettler! I'm trying to get everyone who's having problems with Utah programs to lay it on him. Don't settle for a licensor. kstettler@utah.gov. Be respectful but very strong about endangering MORE kids lives... Please let me know of any of these contacts! I'm collecting the archive and any responses.
Lord help this kid.
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Andy's uncle - you know sometimes youth need to find their own way - learning the hard lessons of life somehow changed me for the better. Before these programs were popular kids learned the hard way. We all became adults and I'm sure we did some of the awful things your nephew did and some of the things your daughter did.
Sometimes when I'm discouraged with my own children I have to reflect back to the time when I was their age. I need to remember how I felt. One also needs to realize that experience - be it good or bad - really is the best teacher.
When wayward youth are shipped off to these mind-control programs they are being denied the opportunity of learning the hard lessons of life.
Instead - some are seeing the worst in humanity.
What kind of a life-altering experience is that?
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From my experience at Turn-About as staff, I have to say that most of the "troubled" teens had no parents in their lives. That isn't to say that they had no parents, it's just that the parents weren't ever involved in their lives. The kids went, as you say, from institution to institution. TAR cannot, nor can any "group home", ever provide a family atmosphere, nor can they teach morals, standards, or family values.
It was my feeling as staff that the only way this type of program would ever work is if the parents were there with the child, working together, for the 3 months. It was my impression that very few of these parents would ever be willing to give up 3 months out of their lives for their kids, when in reality the kids' problems stemmed from bad parenting, or maybe worse yet, no parenting.
I didn't know Andy, I had already quit TAR over unresolved sexual abuse by staff members. It's a place that I could not morally work. I did, however, go out for hours driving back roads looking for him because, if you were actually here in Escalante you might have noticed the 2.1 million acres of extremely remote, rough, rocky, steep canyons unlike no place on Earth, surrounding us. We have out-of-towners die out here every year. Every year we go looking for them in the hopes of finding them before they do.
I was extremely worried for Andy that night, but yet, you, his uncle, supposedly, show very little concern for his safety as he was missing overnight, in this rugged country, in a heavy rainfall, in cold weather. You only continue to blast away at Andy.
You sound more like an Aspen or a TAR employee. At least, that was always their attitude, the kids get what they deserve.
Who's the moderator here, can you check this uncle's IP for me?
Toni
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Interesting that your daughter's name is Emily 'cause I knew an Emily at TAR. She obviously wasn't your daughter since this was only a few months ago, but she is someone's daughter. She was beautiful, very long black hair, the bluest eyes you've ever seen, very slim and tiny build.
I met her at Roundy and while we were alone, with Wayne gone, she told me that she had wrestled with Wayne the night before on his overnight stay. Just at that moment, he appeared out of the blue, from behind us and around the corner, booming, "Yes, we wrestled and I won, didn't I?" (Wayne always reinforces to the kids that he's the only winner, and they're the biggest losers, at Roundy.)
Later that day I caught Wayne and Emily around the corner of Roundy and he was instructing her to put her hands on him. She didn't want to do it, so he reached down and picked her hands up and placed them on his body.
Would you want your Emily being broken down, beaten into submission, and intimidated in this manner?
If your Emily was there in 1993, that was when Dave Townsend, a local person here, owned it. He started the facility, they served good food, did things with the kids (which is sorely missing these days, bored, nothing for 'em to do, TAR strips away the negative lifestyle and replaces it with zero, zip, zilch, and these kids' minds are clean and zooming, they could be shown sooooooo many positive things to reinforce a positive lifestyle . . . oops, I forgot, they teach them how to lift bales of hay wrong for their backs, afterall it is a working ranch and how to brown nose and backstab to the top of the lists, how to hate as their ethnicity is derated, and more!).
That was before Aspen Education Group bought it out. It changed from being a small, locally owned and operated facility to corporate America, one of what? 50 or so facilities owned by Aspen now? And, corporate America needs their fair share of the profits.
Yeah, so I had the Sheriff's Office, the Utah CPS office, and the Utah Licensing Board, all of 'em, sweep the sexual abuse case under the carpet, over and done with in only days. This, in spite of another incident involving duct tape (duct tape = totally illegal in Utah) of a female student, at night, in her pajamas on a wet and cold ground at Roundy on the very night that I turned in my written report.
So be it . . . I come here to tell the truth in the hopes that prospective parents will be reading these forums. I too am a parent, I know what parenting is about. I know about wild and crazy kids -- I took care of the entire neighborhood 'cause none of the other parents were ever at home. I was involved in their schools, their friends, boy/girl scouts, animals, games, shows, plays, whatever. That's what parenting is about -- loving, teaching and being involved.
Toni
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I have edited my message to correct a glaring error: My daughter Emily was at TAR in 2003, not 1993.
I am well aware of the hazards of the country around TAR, having traveled extensively through the backcountry of the southwest for many years. The country around Pine Creek is rugged, but Roundy being in the creek bottom puts people in a less exposed situation than on the rims. No, I don't feel I was unconcerned for Andys risk, he did after all put himself in harms way (again).
I am not and have never been an employee or associate of any Aspen affiliated business. I am, however a satisfied parent of a TAR graduate. I am also the adult product of a 70's wild-childhood, and I thank my lucky stars for surviving the insanity I put myself and my family through. If my folks hadn't sought and found a good alternative school I doubt I would have finished high school at all.
If there are legitimate concerns of abuse or inappropriate behavior at TAR (or any where else for that matter) they must be dilligently pursued for the sake of the children, with that I agree and I applaud your efforts. But to paint all programs or all of a particular program with a wide indiscriminate brush is counter productive. Critical terms like "brainwashing", "agrarian slave labor", etc don't serve to make a concise point or to foster institutional reform.
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Happydad, I live in the raleigh area, and I've sent you a private message. My contact info is in my profile and in the icons below my posts.
There's a lot I want to know if you're willing to tell, and there's also a lot you need to hear. Our nada who art in nada, nada be thy name. Thy kingdom nada, thy will be nada as it is in nada. Give us this nada our daily nada and nada us our nada as we nada our nadas and nada us into nada but deliver us from nada; pues nada. Hail nothing full of nothing, nothing is with thee.
--Ernest Hemingway, American author
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To Andy's uncle:
The more BORING a child is, the more the parents,
when showing off the child, receive adulation for
being GOOD PARENTS -- because they have a TAME
CHILD-CREATURE in their house.
Frank Zappa
Sound like you have an incredibly talented, artistic, inquisitive child on your hands that needed to be challenged in life.....not re-programmed.
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But to paint all programs or all of a particular program with a wide indiscriminate brush is counter productive. Critical terms like "brainwashing", "agrarian slave labor", etc don't serve to make a concise point or to foster institutional reform. "
All the seminars I've heard of fit into the definition of brainwashing if you know what it really is.
Also, a lot of these programs GIVE NO DETAILS AT ALL. As deborah (I think...) says, "sunshine" would do a lot to shut us up and help us sleep at night. Show what you do, show what you're DOING to them, and show they're okay, and give them a way to reach out while trapped.
Another gripe I have is that incarceration is simply over-used. Its obviously a tool to freak them out and break them down, and no there is no inherant therapy from being 'shocked'.
If all they do is lock them up, isolate them, treat them bad "shock" and "impact" them and force conformity, thats ALL IT IS! Its inhumane and doesn't actually fix them at all, it just terrifies into obedience in the short term.
If the lockup is absolutely necessary, fine. But otherwise I want to see some real help and real therapy. I really haven't yet. I am married, not Buried !
-- Steve Webb
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I've lived in the southwest for over 30 years and in Escalante for nearly 5. I don't care how much traveling you've done in the SW, this place is not like any other in its ruggedness and treacherous terrain. It makes no difference whatsoever where Roundy is located (which is 13 miles up a very remote canyon) since Andy had to find a way out through the canyons. Even staff stopped looking at sunset due to the dangers of being out there at night, in the dark, in the canyons, in the rain.
I see that you also failed to mention that Andy's parents, if indeed this runner was Andy (they have them so often it's hard to say), had forewarned TAR that he would run. I understand that TAR employees were aware of this. Here's what went wrong: it wasn't Andy running, that's part of the program with these kids and staff has rules that should be followed (of course TAR doesn't give any real staff training, so it's hit or miss as to which staff is working at the time how things run) -- what went wrong was that staff left him alone when they knew they weren't supposed to. If TAR can't handle these types of kids and keep them safe when they are in their custody, then they have no business taking them in the first place.
You give Andy all of the blame for his "problems". I see that everything is always his fault, even though he didn't have any control over his circumstances.
So why are you suddenly posting in this forum for the first time if your daughter's doing great and Andy's in jail. Isn't it a little late for him? Why didn't you come here before you, supposedly, brought him to TAR. I generally do research first, not after the fact.
I too was one of those wild '70s teens. Geez, my folks didn't send me to some unknown institution, they disciplined me themselves. They also knew that I was just about ready to go out on my own and much of this behavior is due exactly to that independence taking hold. So, what? I'm over 50 today and have had a very productive life without alternative schools.
And, using the term "school" for TAR is a misnomer. They've got one room that qualifies as the school and their headmaster is a retired schoolteacher who falls asleep in class. They have virtually no books in their library so I donated a set of World Book Encyclopedias and science books just so they'd have something.
I don't paint all programs with a wide indiscriminate brush. I only talk about TAR where I have personal experience.
You should also know that since this town of 800 people has no employment at all, most employees are not at TAR willingly, they're there because it's one of only 2-3 places in town to work.
They work 10-13 hours a day without so much as a 15-minute break. This is illegal and it puts the kids at risk because staff is tired, cranky and in a "who gives sh*t" attitude.
So, yeah, I think my work experience there with the kids for 40-60 hours a week gives me much more insight into their care than your history. Your daughter's experiences would rank above mine, and I'm sure she didn't tell you everything.
It took me well into my adult life to remember a rape by a neighbor in my history. Perhaps her problems are just buried now and will surface when she's 40.
Toni
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Gee, didn't mean to ruffle anyones feathers here, just felt like the whole subject needed a little balance, something to put it into context.
I read a lot of heavy criticism of TAR in this thread. Is it possible that I am somehow the only parent who feels they received the help they sought in the way they expected by taking a child there?
I still feel strongly that parents need resources to turn to when a parent/child situation is out of control, and programs like TAR serve a vital purpose when well and ethically run. As I've said before, there are certainly some lousy programs but TAR is the only one I have personal experience with and I have no reason to believe that it is in that category.
Working towards institutional and industry reform is a good thing, even a vital need, but being presumptive and self righteous makes your case weaker not stronger.
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The subject needs balance??? :roll:
The best and most useful thing we could do is shut down the gulags for kids and create facilities to treat disabled parents, troubled parents, frightened and irrational parents.
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I think Toni hit on something that every parent needs to be aware of. When she reported the abuse and sexual abuse of a minor to the authorities in UTAH - they did nothing. This is a major problem. She was a staff member and an eye-witness to this. The facility could not discredit her as a lying, manipulative, disturbed teenager. She was a credible,competent, honest adult employee. Still - they did NOTHING. This was a serious matter - something that waranted not only and investigation - but criminal charges.
There are major problems within the state of Utah. There are hundreds of these youth programs scattered in remote areas. Politicians expect and accept political contributions (bribes) from owners and administrators of these facilities. As a result there are few if any rules or regulations to protect the children.
Do you think it's safe to send your child to a program in a state that will fail to protect them and their interests in the event something does go wrong?
I'm glad your a happy dad and that you believe your child grew from this experience. You need to realize that others were not so fortunate. You need to realize that many, including myself, have made reports of the outrageous abuse experienced and witnessed by their children. AND NOTHING was done. So that is why many of us are here - writing and warning and pleading that parents beware of this state - Utah and others - where children are just sitting ducks for abuse - because there are few rules and regulations to protect them from abuse and the authorities do little to nothing when reports of abuse surface.
This is a major problem. UTAH is a beautiful state and the people are warm and friendly. Unfortunately there is a dirty secret that most find out about when it is too late. The government is corrupt when it comes to this teen industry. They care more about the money brought into the state (and into their political war chests) than they do about these mentally ill and troubled youth. Many have suffered abuse of all kinds and several have died.
Look at what the state has done. Look at the punishments that were given to those who starved and tortured Aaron Bacon to death. Only one served jail time - 3 months.
WE want parents to do their research first. Too many are desparate and most don't have the time to do what is required of them - PARENT THEIR CHILD. for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.
--Alexander Hamilton
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Happydad I think you put it best when you "shared your experience" you are a self admitted ex-wild child. You amazingly grew up fine without the intervention of any lockdown facility.
In other words you grew-up eventually. Imagine that?! :idea:
The Graduate
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happydad, something that a lot of parents don't know yet is that these programs have a long history of LYING and manipulating. They have a long history of makin the child never trust the parent - and a lot of abused people don't ever want to say it anyway. After being told PERSONALLY that they were beaten and raped, and mentally tortured in those stupid seminars, forced to live in squallid, unhygenic locations, poorly fed if at all, and all of the horror stories I've read from both surviving and DEAD children, you must understand how me or someone else here would feel.
Something else you need to realize is when you are emotionally stressed out and at your lowest it is SO easy to manipulate you. When a parent feels so strongly that they've failed their kid, or they need help and they're so hopeless and frustrated, a program seems like the magic fix! The good and bad places alike go after parents at their lowest point, and keep you emotional instead of collected and intellectual. That, by the way, is what the seminars use to manipulate and brainwash. You really should read the accounts of people who went through some of these seminars.
I hope to god that TAR hasn't done anything to your kid but I simply have no faith in any program anymore. When they're out in the woods how are they going to get through to anyone? They have to go through the same people that would be abusing them! What Toni says HAS to be kept in consideration - and because nobody knows what they did with (or to) Emily to 'fix' her, we're going to be very questioning of everything and everyone.
I too am for regulation and making sure there is contact between the child and parent. Regulation would fix a lot of this. I myself am not out here to accuse or question you, and you probably don't know all that we know (another problem...) but you HAVE to realize there isn't any trust anymore! there isn't any faith in the facilities or the government, and they HAVE and CONTINUE TO manipulate parents, and terrify children so much they never even tell their parents.
All I'm trying to do is help reach out and connect the necessary people, help in any way I can, and collect all the information there is, because knowlege is power, and thats the last thing the bad places want to give out. I personally am not out to question or demean you, but we have had brainwashed parents come through here before. I've even spoken to a child who was brainwashed by those damned seminars in WWASPS facilities.
If nothing but good did happen, I'm glad, but some people will have a hard time believing it now. I'm not out to judge or attack YOU, I'm sure you had your childs interests in mind! But, I am very accusational about the industry. You're just the only one who would answer anyones questions.He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
--Author: Sir William Drummond