Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 26, 2004, 10:47:00 AM
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http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_2419473 (http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_2419473)
No findings of abuse
The Tribune's Sept. 19 article on the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools for struggling teens graphed some ?Worldwide Woes,? but it should have also mentioned that the association has a tremendous success record and a high parent satisfaction rate (97 percent) evidenced by the nearly 2,000 letters received from parents and students in the past year alone.
It should also be mentioned that:
l The U.S. Consulate has confirmed that during seven years of operation there has never been a single substantiated case of abuse or mistreatment at Casa by the Sea (Mexico).
l After a year of thorough governmental investigation there were no findings of abuse or mistreatment at Dundee Ranch (Costa Rica).
l Carolina Springs is currently in good standing with the state of South Carolina and has never had a substantiated case of abuse or mistreatment.
l Charges against Wayne Winder were dropped after Majestic Ranch (Randolph, Utah) students admitted to state officials they had made up stories.
l Cross Creek has been in good standing with the state of Utah for 16 years and has never
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had a substantiated case of abuse or mistreatment.
l All students from Morava Academy (Czech Republic) were interviewed upon their return home and there were no findings of abuse or mistreatment at the academy.
l The investigation by Samoan authorities actually happened at another program in Samoa, not at Paradise Cove which was in good standing with the Samoan government and the U.S. Consulate during its entire operation in Samoa.
Robert B. Lichfield
Consultant, World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools
Toquerville
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More anonymous postings. This brings back memories because I sat through three depositions with Robert Lichfield: mine, his, and Ken Kay's. I was a co-defendant in his lawsuit against Sue Scheff. The court threw out the case against me before it ever got to a jury. They never HAD a case against me. They were accusing me of unfair business compeition when I'm not in business.
I can't help but remember that right after the deposition someone anonymously posted comments about my appearance and physical condition, information that could only have originated with someone who attended the deposition. It's entirely possible that someone with WWASP - maybe even Lichfield or Kay - posted the above. I don't see why Ginger even allows anonymous postings. I've never hidden my true identity and I see no reason why anyone other than program victims should. Anything Pro-WWASP that you see posted here needs to be taken with a very large grain of salt.
No findings of abuse, eh? And so far no one has convicted Michael Jackson of anything. Does that mean that you'd let your kids do a sleepover with the gloved one? (Actually, the way he pays off his accusers, maybe you would!)
You know, the thing that sticks out most from the depositions is a matter of body language. It was actually WWASP's lawyer who first made an issue of this, accusing me of trying to intimidate Ken Kay with body language. It hardly seemed necessary. I got the impression he was already shaking in his boots as it was. (BTW, in my opinion, one of the biggest factors in my victory and Sue's was that we had - in my opinion - MUCH BETTER LAWYERS. I don't know if this means that WWASP simply chose poorly, or that no one who was any good would take the case.)
But it was LICHFIELD's body language that I found fascinating. All through Kay's deposition he spent about seventy percent of the time either covering his mouth with his hand, or hiding his entire face in his hand. I interpret that to mean - and this is only my own opinion and belief, protected under the first amendment - that there are still some big secrets that never came out in the deposition. I interpret it to mean that it was stuff that Kay could have divulged, but our lawyers never knew the right questions to ask. And I interpret it to mean that it is something Lichfield is deeply ashamed of and terrified will get out.
Well, here's hoping.
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Naturally Lichfield is the best person to ask about abuse in a WWASP program...
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So are we to assume that EIGHT seperate WWASP programs were closed for no good reason? Do these EIGHT seperate sets of authorities who closed the respective programs down ALL have seperate personal vendettas against WWASP? What kind of logic is this??
Are ALL of the program kids who have spoken out about physical/psychological abuse at these "schools" lying? What about those of us, like myself, who don't speak out until years later? Are we still "manipulating"? What is there to gain from this??
It's no secret that abusers OFTEN "get away with" their crimes from a legal standpoint - this does not mean that they did not commit said crimes. Throw into the mix the fact that Lichfield/WWASP is an EXTREMELY wealthy, powerful, manipulative & influencial organization and it can hardly come as a shock that they have never been convicted of anything.
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Here's one reason why I allow anonymous postings.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =110#59873 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6341&forum=9&start=110#59873)
These kids needed to get in touch with each other. As you well know, the Programs make that as difficult as possible. Do you really think I should require everyone to register before allowing them to post?
Jeff, this is not WWASP. We're not in the Program. We don't censor anybody here or shut anybody down. Don't you get it? Here, you can refute the lies. That's the difference between freedom and a totalist mindset. I'm not afraid of anyone expressing pro-Program sentiments because I know that, so long as we examine the issues on an equal footing, the truth will prevail.
Instead of bellyaching about my refusal to act as your personal censor, why not write to the SLT and straighten them out. You might point out that another journalist in their very own office has already got a good start on tracking the WWASP money trail.
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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//why not write to the SLT and straighten them out. //
KC, your post would be a great submission to the opinion section of the Salt Lake Tribune.
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Buzz - I just did (sent a reply letter to the Trib.) .... we'll see what happens.
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Actually Ginger, I'm not so much inviting you to ban anonymous postings as daring the anonymous pro-wwasp posters to come out of the closet. I do them the courtesy of using my real name, why don't they? (Program survivors are, of course, a different matter, and I said as much.)
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On 2004-09-26 14:56:00, Jeff_Berryman wrote:
I do them the courtesy of using my real name, why don't they? (Program survivors are, of course, a different matter, and I said as much.)"
Cause there really are only a few of them pretending to be dozens of different people. :rofl: From the bottom of any large organization looking up through the ranks, human greed and stupidity look a lot like a conspiracy.
--S. Gilbert
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Right on Ginger! :razz:
http://www.purerebuttal.com/ (http://www.purerebuttal.com/)
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Teeeheheheee . . . and it's really great when you reveal them to us!
It's no wonder none of the programs have any formal complaints or tarnishes on their records. As a former staff who filed sexual and harassment abuse complaints with all agencies, I can safely say I know why the facilities have blemish-free records.
You only have to lift up the carpet and look under there. That's where they swept 'em away, out of sight, out of mind. Nope, nothing wrong here!
Toni
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Robert Lichfield is a lyer and should be excommunicated from the Mormon church for the abuse he promotes and covers for. The children are telling the truth - Far too many have been telling of similar stories. Operators themselves have admitted to keep children in isolation on their face in a cold, concrete observation room for up to 18 months. This is not only abuse, it is torture. Can anyone immagine how horrible it would be to be forced to lay on the cold, ground day in and day out on ones abdomen for even one day - let alone a year and a half. If someone did this to their own child they would probably be imprissoned.
All WWASP programs follow the same abusive methods to change and alter behavior. The only state that has done nothing is UTAH. Utah is becoming known as the birthplace of all abusive youth programs.
The authorities in these other countries did a noble thing by shutting these programs down. Hopefully Jamaica will follow suit and shut down Tranquility Bay - the most abusive of all
Keep writing letters to the editors of the Salt Lake Tribune. Keep them short and to the point.
I know that our bodies were made to thrive only in pure air, and the scenes in which pure air is found.
-- John Muir
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Yes, Utah is not looking too good lately, and I believe it's an industry they'd really like to develop more here. In southern Utah, most other industries have been shut down, so this makes some jobs (even though it pays very poorly and requires a work week of 50-60 hours just to make it).
I have a friend in the Zion Park area near Litchfield's facility and she told me several months ago that something bad was going on there.
The Mormon inter-connectedness is difficult to get around too -- they're all related.
I've thought about sending my complaints to Attorney General Shurtleff who sometimes does some very good things and to Gov Olene Walker (Utah's first female).
I'm asking all Mormons if they or their church condones abuse of minors 'cause they all just don't want to talk or hear about it (keep those dirty little secrets to yourself, would ya).
It's time to bring this out of the closet.
Toni
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On 2004-09-26 17:50:00, cherish wisdom wrote:
"Robert Lichfield is a lyer and should be excommunicated from the Mormon church for the abuse he promotes and covers for.
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My Department Chairman at Florida State was a Mormon Bishop and Stake President, and one of the finest people I ever knew. (You know Flanders on the Simpsons? Think of someone who manages to be a real life version of Flanders, and yet somehow manage to be COOL at the same time.) He later headed up the LDS Missionary effort in Moscow, and then came home with cancer and died. I miss him very much. I can't understand how one organization can have people like him at one extreme and people who run for-profit gulags at the other. Maybe because Mormonism is a relatively young religion the extremes of temperment within its ranks haven't resolved themselves yet. Maybe all religions are like this in their early days.
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Early days? Same is true for Catholics and Christians, and Buddists and Hindus, and whites and blacks and gays and straights.
The truth is, there is 'good' and 'bad' everywhere in all groups. No one gets a clean bill of health solely by identifying with any group, religion, or association. Not sure that was ever true.
As I said before, if I were sending my kid to a person of any of those religious affiliations, I'd want to know how they interpret their scriptures, and just where they draw the line between discipline and abuse. That seems to be the only thing that distinguishes who's 'good' and who's 'bad'.
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Jeff Barryman. Since you are very involved with PURE, I assume you are not concerned about the same type of programs that PURE refers to? I've read allegations of abuse at different times in regards to the Programs that pay this referral company.
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I think what happens, from talking to Mormon friends, is that Mormons are used to a certain amount of discrimination and prejudice from the outside world, it makes them a bit clannish (understandably), and it makes them inclined to over-estimate the likelihood that bad accusations against a fellow "Saint" are born out of prejudice rather than out of the genuine bad acts of some bad person(s) using the Mormon religion as protective camouflage to get away with stuff.
As a Wiccan, I can understand that. You experience a certain amount of discrimination, and when someone of your religion claims discrimination, your initial tendency is to believe them. And a lot of times that initial tendency is right.
I don't think it's that most Mormons think child abuse is okay. I think it's that they don't believe the allegations, for the reasons I just stated, and that the public awareness campaign is the most likely thing to change that over the long term---it's just taking longer to get through the fog.
A good Mormon wouldn't do some of the terrible things some of these places do anymore than a good Christian, a good Buddhist, or a good Wiccan would.
Bad Mormons are cynically playing the Good Mormons like a fiddle. Keep hammering at the truth and sooner or later the Good Mormons will wake up to it.
Timoclea
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I'm not against Mormons, I live amongst them. As you say, some are good and some are bad just like in any group. So, what the Mormons here have said is that sexual abuse of young girls is just a fact of life, not that some condone it, it just seems to happen to all of them, so why shouldn't it happen to the girls in the schools in Utah.
However, the Mormons are inter-connected through years of marriages in a closed state. This directly reflects on their investigations 'cause they might be investigating a cousin, uncle, etc. When one of theirs is suspect, they stand with the suspect due to bloodlines.
Toni
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The only thing I'd add to that is that there is a concern, even among some Mormons who are researching this, that child abuse is consistently higher in Utah than in the nation as a whole. There are many links in this thread:
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 25&forum=9 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2825&forum=9)
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On 2004-09-26 20:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Jeff Barryman. Since you are very involved with PURE, I assume you are not concerned about the same type of programs that PURE refers to? I've read allegations of abuse at different times in regards to the Programs that pay this referral company. "
I'm not going to answer this posting as long as it's anonymous. Identify yourself and maybe I'll reply.
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Now, I don't have anything against Mormons per se, but I can't honestly say that I haven't become a little bit wary of them - inadvertantly - from being at Cross Creek. I was raised in a very Irish Catholic family - I had never even been to a Baptist service (let alone a Mormon one) - so the religious aspect of CCM was also a major culture shock for me. I don't know about the other programs, but at Cross Creek a lot of the staff/therapists were this weird brand of Mormon, it seemed like.... I can tell you that I learned more about Joseph Smith & Brigham Young than I ever would have otherwise! There were several girls (who didn't have strong religious backgrounds like me) who became LDS "converts" while in the program - as innocuous as this may seems to someone else, it made me very paranoid! The female staff were the strangest, I think - there was this overriding notion among them that if you weren't married & popped out 6 kids, then you weren't really *worth* anything as a woman. They were always making comments and such alluding to this. What kind of example is that to set for a bunch of impressionable teenage girls?
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http://amazingforums.com/forum/BS4/243.html (http://amazingforums.com/forum/BS4/243.html)
Matt Marsh posted 9/27/04 10:42 PM
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Yep, its true! Casa is going to reopen in a few weeks. The employees who were left and didn't move or go to new jobs are being called back to clean the place up and Mexico has allowed them to reopen the program. They already have a list of about 80 parents who will either be sending their kids or resending their kids back down there. If you want more info or have any more, please contact me through email, or my AIM... chickenfeet37. Thanks. Keep it posted!
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Well, lets wait and see. Narvin has been re-opening Dundee for some two years now.