Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Anonymous on July 16, 2004, 01:22:00 AM
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OK. Don't laugh. I'm not tech savvy. What does it mean to clean your cache/cookies or whatever after you post to these sites? How do you do that? What is a cache and what are cookies?
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mmm... cookies..
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I wasn't talking about chocolate chip. I am serious about cache and cookies. Are cookies the equivelent of a paper trail but on the computer? So how do you guard your privacy online and what do cookies and cache have to do w/it?
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I'm no techie either, but cookies are what enables your computer to remember screen names and passwords, as far as I know. You can delete them in your control panel, under internet options.
We are a one party country. Half of them call themselves Democrats and the other half call themselves Republicans. All the good ideas come from the Libertarians.
--Hugh Downs
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It might be very wise to lay low, stay anonymous and avoid tracing here. There is some kind of lawsuit going on involving this site. See
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... forum=1&84 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4048&forum=1&84)
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Please. No one is going to sue you (at least not successfully) for what you post here. My God people.
Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic
for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has
happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to
the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail,
there will be anarchy throughout the world.
Daniel Webster
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Thanks for the info on the lawsuit, it was the first I've heard of it, and it may help explain why some people post anonymously.
I don't know if posting anonymously is a total guarantee of not being traced, however, I've read elsewhere in a completely different context that the FBI and some other police agencies have methods that, while more indirect and costly, can trace the source of messages that could, in the past, not be traced. I think it's technology that has to do with terrorism surveillance. But it is definitely not an area where I have any competence at all.
It doesn't affect me since I never do things anonymously but I've seen anonymous posts at this site that talk about such things as assault rifles and karma and going after old school personnell and even their children. May just be talk but I would not be surprised if this kind of stuff was being looked into and is a factor in the lawsuit you refer to.
Does anyone, who unlike me, does have a clue about computers, know the scope of the detection methods now available to track down the source of anonymous messages?
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"Please. No one is going to sue you (at least not successfully) for what you post here.
Well with CEDU there are already enough cases against them that they can't really call you slanderous . I think that case with Ginger (the site owner) involves a facility that claims it is clean.
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"Thanks for the info on the lawsuit, it was the first I've heard of it, and it may help explain why some people post anonymously.
And pray tell, what is the difference between "Anonymous" and "ottawa5"??? They both seem pretty anonymous to me.
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This is what comes of working on two computer screens at once, when you are really, really a computer klutz.. of course it is me.
People tell me my style of writing, which developed from attending a very correct and grammar-driven school up there in Canada, is definitive, even without the apparent ability to always remember to enter the proper info when I post, so that's helpful at least in keeping plumb and square on standing behind for what I say.
But the questions of anonymity and tracing methods are of great interest, as is the very recent post pertaining to what is the scope of "freedom of speech".
There are in fact limitations to such freedoms: issues of "shouting fire in a crowded theater", the ever growing exception for what might be construed in a variety of ways as "terroristic threats", and specific or semi-specific threats to do harm to a person or group of persons. As well as the idea of conspiracy to bring any of these things about, by, say, allowing them to be posted on your web site.
I don't know how any of these relate to the suit that someone said concerns this site. Perhaps someone else does. I do know that it costs a lot to go to court even if you aren't found guilty, so it pays not to say dangerous, threatening things (I'm not talking about profanity, rudeness, vulgarity, I'm talking about threats, even made broadly).
Could anyone reasonable disagree with that?
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Oh, I get what you mean: anonymous and ottawa5 are both the same to you--I thought you were suggesting that I had forgotten to enter my username, something that I am wont to do at times--I then saw that I had not--good for me!
Yes, I see what you mean, but at the same time, a little information is better than none. If you post anonymously, there is little chance to see what you've said before, to get a broader context for your position; there is the possibility, when there is absolutely no constant identifier, of a person taking different positions, playing games about things. And when anonymous, people may well say things that they would be ashamed to say if they had to be known, even a little.
I just think that some level of certainty is better than nothing, so I much prefer to have a username. And in general it is difficult for me to take someone seriously who can't even be known to that extent.
[ This Message was edited by: ottawa5 on 2004-07-16 18:54 ]
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What's the difference betwen ottawa and annomous???????????? Both are annomouse posts from a specific IP address.
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this is stupid. you guys have taken a simple question about cookies and turned it into an arguement. :roll:
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there is no difference between ottawa and anonymous, either way it's just some guy from Canada blowing smoke up your asses. we still don't know if this guy is a cedu sheep or not!
hey, otto, if you really want to prove yourself as being any better than the anonymous posters,
why don't you tell us who you really are already?
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SON OF SERBIA wrote the last post.
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I think that I've made pretty clear that with regard to computer parlance, I don't have a clue--but it stands to reason, in terms of tracking down the source of a post (if that is your interest), an identifier (as opposed to an anonymous posting) would be helpful.
In practical, human terms, I reiterate: the difference between anonymous and ottawa5 (or any other name that can be used as a limited identifier in this forum) relates to a number of things (see previous posts) but at base, they all involve a willingness to be known, even to a limited extent, so that, perhaps someone could look at your other posts and your profile, and understand more about where you are coming from.
And, as I mentioned before, there is an element of speaking from an identity, even when it is limited, that encourages responsibility and coherence and courage, since certain remarks can be ascribed to that identity.
I just think it's better to post with some recognizable username--maybe some people have a really cogent reason to stay completely anonymous, that would be a different matter.
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OK. Back to Internet talk, folks...I am the un-tech-savvy poster--Shanlea--I'm just trying to figure out how to protect my privacy; I keep hearing stuff about cleaning up cookies (not just on this site, but to protect your privacy in general).
What is a cache? How do you clean it up?
I understand about wanting the ID of posters (even fictional) for purposes of congruency. Funny but I think you get to know the "voice" of some of the people on this site and can tell when they post anon.
On the other hand, I wonder if people sometimes use their user name when they are posting civilly and anon when they are not.
I sure wish the more threatening posters would just stop because they are undermining the integrity of this whole site.
OK, back to cache....
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This is kind of funny, and I probably wouldn't ordinarily even take notice, because paranoia doesn't interest me much, but "Son of Serbia" is such a great username that I must comment.
Also, I am home tonight with a new puppy, a very sweet little creature (which I wouldn't ever have gotten for myself, when I am so busy already, but which my family conned me into), so I welcome the back-and-forth and the conversation, while trapped in Puppyland with this little darling.
Actually, I am a female Canadian (not a guy, if you please), and not even only strictly a Canadian anymore, I guess, since I married an American and took that citizenship (although Canada still recognizes me as a citizen too, because of the way they do things up there).
All that I am going to say now is available in my previous posts, but there is no reason why anyone would be expected to have either the time or the interest in digging through them--I will tell you as much about myself now as I am willing to share.
A few years ago, I was a mother and biochemist and everything in my life was just about perfect (well, perhaps not perfect, but much better than one could reasonably hope for), and then one of my children started to act in ways that clearly were not positive, in terms of either present happiness or future fulfilment.
We put that child in a CEDU school and I, as a not-particularly-psychologically-minded parent, at the beginning, at least, saw all this. at first, as a problem with the child, and the placement almost as a punishment. I must confess also that the placement was really a relief from all the upset that this child was causing.
And then I went to the required CEDU parent seminars and workshops, and it was an amazingly positive thing for me. Among other things, I learned that I was, in a number of ways, part of my child's problems. And with what I learned there, and what my child learned at the school, we have been able to make something good for each of us, and in terms of our family relationships.
I really don't want to talk much more about my child, each of us should have the choice in terms of how much personal information to share--he is really focused on his future right now. I hope some day he will be willing to share his story here or elsewhere, but I think that you can understand that this must be his choice.
I will only say that (and if this is heresy, it will have to be so), CEDU was wonderfully positive for us.
In terms of my own story, I feel that I can speak openly--I found that the seminars and workshops helped me gain a whole new dimension of living---on the basis of what I saw in these interactions, I went back to school, and am now getting my doctorate in clinical psychology, with an interest in the discovery of meaning in each individual's life.
So, believe what you want to believe, call me names if you wish, ridicule the meaning I have found, it's just sticks and stones to me (although obviously, in the best of all worlds, I would prefer not to be hit with sticks and stones, even verbal ones).
I truly believe that there are parts of the whole emotional growth experience that are real and positive. But I understand also that, even when there is something real in an experience, there is always a way to improve upon it, and eliminate what is dangerous, or wrong, or inferior.
I check in at this site because I want to understand what has gone wrong, why not every child in a CEDU school has experienced what we have, and I am interested in how the experience can be improved and made more universal, while at the same time retaining the powerful, positive things that have meant so much to us.
Hope that answers your question.
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I'm glad you explained this a bit better. I for one went through CEDU quite a while ago so I can't speak for what it is now.
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You are lucky your kid is not a basket case. CEDU orignally stands for Charles E. Dederich University. You can read all about Dederich and Synanon here (scroll down to Synanon): http://www.rickross.com/reference/brain ... ing35.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing35.html)
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i apologize for assuming you were a man. ottawa5, doesn't sound very feminine to me.
for the record, my wife is also a canadian citizen, so please don't get the idea that i hold that against you.
Now that you have confirmed that you are a woman,
there is one thing i have to know. as i'm
sure you are aware, several posters on other topics in this site have raised the possibility
that you may be a recruiter, or that you are a former or current cedu employee. i've been reading your posts, and the information you've shared about your son, and the details about your experiences finishing the cedu program with him sound vaguely familiar to me.
i believe i have heard this story before,
14 years ago.
On December 28, 1990, i was delivered to cedu by two rather large private investigators (they told me that they were the "school escort service"). i was 14 years old. The first person i met was the director of admissions (i think that's what she called herself),a woman named PAT SAVAGE. at first she was extremely friendly, and she began to tell me about the "wonderful opportunity" that awaited me for personal growth and discovery :???: (i was a stupid 14 year old kid, i had no idea what the hell she was talking about). Pat began to tell me about how her son who had graduated from cedu in the mid 80's. apparantly Pat's son was abusive to his siblings, failing in school, getting in trouble with the law, and his behavior was tearing the family apart. Pat explained to me how cedu turned her son's life around, and brought them closer together, because she was allowed to GO THROUGH THE PROGRAM WITH HIM. Pat also mentioned that her experience with cedu INSPIRED HER TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL,CHANGE CAREERS, and that she decided to work at cedu. Pat kept using words like "Wonderful" and "Amazing", she really made it sound like life at cedu was paradise on earth (boy was that a crock of shit!).
Pat spoke with an accent that i was completely unfamiliar with, however, it was clear to me that Pat was not from California or Chicago (where i lived) or anywhere else i'd ever visited . i had never met anyone from Canada at that time, but looking back now, Pat could very well have been Canadian. Pat then handed me a stack of pages (more or less a contract saying that i would follow cedu's rules) that i was supposed to sign. i asked her if i could think about it, Pat hesitated, and said that i could think about it, but i had to come back to her office and sign the papers before the end of the move-in process. at this point Pat was still being very nice to me. Pat then turned me over to Russ Decker and 2 older students.
Russ and his 2 cedu sheep walked me around the campus, and then took me to my dorm. they then proceeded to rummage through my belongings and confiscated everything that meant anything to me. Russ then told me i would be stripped searched, and ordered me to disrobe. I refused, and told him "The only guy i'll ever take my clothes off for is my doctor." I was informed that i would not be allowed to stay if i didn't strip. i said i didn't want to stay, so Russ and his 2 sheep escorted me back to Pat's office.
the PAT SAVAGE that i met this time was a completely different person. she was hostile, arrogant, and extremely confrontational. even her face changed, like she was possessed or something. i told Pat i didn't want to stay,and she started yelling and threatening me. her face turned bright red. i was told that if i didn't stay, i would be sent to lock up until i was 18, where i would be beaten, abused, raped, and that i would never speak to my family again. Russ also added that if i go to lock up "i better get used to being fucked in the ass." Russ and Pat had a great big laugh about that one. i told them i couldn't believe that my parents would do that to me. Pat then got my mom on the phone, who told me verbatum "our decision is firm, either stay and finish Cedu's program, our go to lock up and be out of our lives forever." then she hung up. i was devestated. i couldn't believe that my mom would say that to me. I had no choice but to strip and agree to Cedu's terms.
so tell me ottawa, are you Pat Savage? i think that you are. there are way too many similarities between what i read in your posts, and the story Pat told me. i cannot simply dismiss this as pure coincidence. if you are Pat Savage, then you are a LYING, TWO-FACED, COLD-HEARTED BITCH! You deserve every bit of the hostility that posters on this site have shown you. if i am mistaken, then please forgive me.
As for the username SON OF SERBIA, i am 100% Serbian, so in a sense, i am a son of Serbia. to my knowledge, i am the only Serb who ever attended cedu. i've always been proud of who and what i am, and that fact was common knowlege to everyone who was at cedu with me. Cedu staff would use my ethnic pride against me, and i was blown away in quite a few raps because of that pride. One staff member, Patrick Stambusky, even compared my ethnic pride to that of Adolf Hitler and he labeled me an anti-semite (this could not be any further from the truth, being that nazis and their allies massacred over 1 million of my people as well). i think this was a ploy to get the jewish students to side with him while he was screaming at me. it worked. I'm sure that anyone who sat in these raps with me remebers them. i chose the name SON OF SERBIA in order to give posters who were at cedu with me an important clue as to my identity.
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I am not sure where you went, you say CEDU several times and I haven't got time right now to check your earlier posts--are you talking about CEDU High School or RMA? My experiences were with RMA and at a slightly later time period than you are talking about.
There was an older woman counsellor or team leader or something by the name of Pat at RMA at that time, but she didn't seem to be related to my son's team, I only met her once and I couldn't tell you her last name or her accent or whatever. Suffice to say (and you will have to draw your own conclusions) I am not her, and unless that is the woman you are referring to and she got transferred to RMA I don't even know the person you've described. I'll ask my son if it was the same person when I talk with him next.
It's a bit frustrating---I'd rather not give my own name, not only because my child deserves confidentiality if he is not interested in this forum, but also because I am convinced that there are some potentially deranged people who check in at this site from time to time, I really don't care to be that open with them. If someone wants to be hostile or rude with me that's one thing, but some of these people are talking about assault rifles and going after people's children--I want to stay away from people who would even joke about such stuff---unless I'm working with them as a therapist in a locked ward or something. Probably just being paranoid, but that's not uncommon here, I've noticed.
But for what it's worth, I have never worked for CEDU, any school, any thing of that nature. I am in graduate school myself now, I did a recent practicum with some oppositional children as part of my training but that was at a regular high school. Otherwise my past work experience has been in non-psychological/educational areas.
You know, we all initially focus on what we have personally experienced--I tend to focus on CEDU good outcomes because that is my personal experience (to get info on the other side of that equation is part of why I am interested in this site).
You, I would guess, tend to focus on the bad outcomes. Many here will not even entertain the possibility of good outcomes--those "good-outcome" students are, by definition, brainwashed, they're bullies, they're recruiters in diguise, whatever.
But everything I know, and I am a pretty good observer, tells me that there really are good outcomes and among kids who are not bullies and not brainwashed. I'm just not talking about my own family, I'm talking about other families that I know. And I want to understand how people can have such a different experience--does it have to do with different staff, maybe some kids just have personalities that are not going to work with this type of program, maybe at different times, or even on different teams. things were done very differently.
So please consider that there are many stories like mine out there, where both the child and the parent learned a lot and grew from the CEDU experience---maybe that's why the story is familiar to you---it is not unique, that's for sure, I keep in touch with some parents who have the same perspective and have had similar experiences to my own.
I also know parents who have had a variety of other experiences--for instance in one case that I know of, the kid is doing find, but those parents really didn't get much out of, or change much personally because of the parent part of the whole deal. In another case, the child is right back where he started, but the parents have no complaints about the school, yet were not particularly moved by the parent seminars. So there are many different aspects to this whole thing---I am interested in parsing out the good and efficacious parts of the emotional growth experience, as well as why it was positive for some and not for others.
Why for example, were the raps a nightmare for some people and helpful for others (taking for granted that no one really liked them). Confrontation is not always bad, it comes in and out of fashion in psychology (think about Gestalt techniques), it's actually being used a bit more now in CBT brief therapy than it once was. It's also a pretty common part of substance-abuse group work. But I agree that, especially with children, it must be done with good control, and with real caring (and it is not suitable for children without the ego resilience to cope). If what I read here is not embellished, a good child/program match has not always happened in these schools. These are the sort of between-the-lines parts of the experience that I want to make sense of.
Somebody posted a link to info on SYNANON (I think that's the spelling) and that was helpful because it shows how an idea can get out of hand. That is the kind of useful stuff I am looking for. If I can, I am going to open my own school someday, and that is one part of my interest, the other is to see how good techniques can be developed and used with adolescents in trouble, even if the idea of a school of my own never materializes.
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Ottawa,
In my view, scientific approaches to judging CEDU is not always helpful. In fact, people in science have created some of the worst human atrocitites of this millenium.
Second, while I sppreciate your reasoned approach on some level, I feel you gloss over how we were held at CEDU using an excessive and inhumane level of fear. Such as what Serb mentoned, being threatened to go to Lock Down and being raped. (many of us were threatened this way and many of us were not remotely aggressive or insane.)
In my case, nothing that pertained to any of the reasons that got me into CEDU were ever discussed in a rap or propheet. Many of the things staff brought up were either partially or totally false. But I had to live with the implications. In addition, traumatic situations such as rape etc. were handled in a way to make feel more dirty than I already did. If you read other posts, girls who had sex with one partner were repeatedly told they "had their legs open to the world." This was very consistent with my experience. In addition, I have a profound bi-lateral hearing loss. The staff treated this in the most ignorant fashion possible. Berating me when I couldn't hear and humiliating me instead of helping me compensate for this disability and not letting it run my life.
I am a sensitive person; all I needed at CEDU was "this is what happened to you. You can't let fear guide your life. Let's come up with techniqiues to overcome them." I would have been overjoyed at therospect of using POSITIVE peer "pressure" to overcome things. However, raps were psychologically and verbally abusive and tore me down without really getting at roots of a problem. In fact, I can safely say that I don't have a single rap experience that was authentic in terms of dealing with the real issue. Staff were not helpful in this goal. In fact, because I pretty much just followed the rules, it was as if I was in the woodwork and then the would realize "we gotta create something here so we can show something." The staff had a script and followed it. I'm very self insightful, I knew what my issues were, I did not know how to build self esteem or coping skills. CEDU did not help in this endeavor.
Last, staff were very manipulative w/my parents.
As far as how CEDU helped you, I am sure they used gentler, more humane practices to help you in your self discovery. I doubt they would bite the hand thatfeeds them.
I guess what bothers me about your posts is that you seem to put the experiences in two categories: positive and negative, but you don't seem to mind that some of us were lied to, manipulated, and verbally and psychologically abused. That is what is most upsetting about your posts.
I shouldn't care about someone who appears to write the latter group off as just "not benefitting from the CEDU experience" but it does hurt.
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Ok, did you still want the answer to the original question??
To clear your cache and cookies, assuming you're using Internet Exploder (oops, I meant "Explorer")... go to your control panel, and click "Internet Options".
Got that?
Good.
Now, at that front screen, click "Delete Cookies". Gone? I hope so... but that's all we have to work with right now.
Then....
On the same screen, hit "Delete Files" - this will also delete some retained information that you might be worried about...
Now, if you're really worried about security -- find another OS, use another browser, and check into encryption - oh and...
::troll::
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Here is the thing--and I hope that this helps you understand that what I am doing here is not meant to minimize anyone's pain, which is clearly real in many cases. That much is obvious, especially when it is expressed as eloquently and genuinely as you do in this post--really with all the elements that a professional writer would use in communicating the true "being" of a situation to his or her reader.
Let me give you an analogy that may help you understand what I am trying to do and why it is not meant to, in any way, minimize any other person's real feelings.
When I was a little girl, quite some time ago, I was sent to a private Catholic school. In those days, I think it is different now, nuns were sometimes rather frustrated women who either could not or would not marry and yet were afraid to be alone in a world that frown on single, independent women.
Some, though of course not all, of these nuns were not in an ideal psychological state to deal with a classroom full of young children. I won't bore you with all the details but the scenario included locking children in dark closets, children who had talked in class being tied together for long periods, physical punishment via "The Strap", lots and lots of public ridicule and humiliation.
This was not good, I knew it at the time, and I know it now, but in spite of all the bad things that went on, there was a tone of order and dedication and discipline and certainty created in those old-fashioned schools that lead to higher level of achievement and emotional stability when compared to public schools, even taking into account such things as socioeconomic status, purposeful exclusion of problem kids, etc. And, as I have learned at various class reunions over the years, some people have good memories, some no good memories at all, although all supposedly had the same school history.
Now, if I were looking at these programs, I would do it much the same way in which I am trying to look at CEDU and similar programs. If I could, I would try to look at positive and negative outcomes, in terms of academics, in terms of overall functioning. I would try to figure out what was good and bad about these programs and how the good could be preserved and the bad modified or eliminated. I understand that this is pretty much what has been done at least in some Catholic school systems that I know of, based on reports of old classmates of mine who have had kids in these schools at a later date.
I do not take the fact that someone has looked at that situation scientifically to be a slap in the face to me, and if a researcher wanted to hear my experience I would not be offended if they saw both the good and the bad in a program, in spite of what my personal experience was.
It's just too simple to say "CEDU is all evil". I believe that sometimes, for a variety of reasons, as in your case, this kind of program is no help at all. I also believe that in many cases, CEDU has led to good results where other schools have not.
And the reality is that some kids are so out of control at home that they need to be somewhere else until the issues that are making them that way are worked out. I would always say, "If there is any feasible way to keep your child at home and work out his or her problems, do it". Sometimes there isn't. In those cases, I would like to have programs in place that work, and while, by definition they are going to be coercive, to be as respectful and caring of the child as is possible.
It is very bad, the experience that you had at your school. It seems inauthentic for me to say that I know how you feel about it, but I know something similar, in a way, because of my own early school experiences. I know that this reognition is a small thing and I imagine and hope that you have people in your life now, with whom you can discuss and work out, in a personal way, these feelings that you have about what happened.
Try to understand that sometimes it is necessary to be dispassionate when observing a situation---it is not meant to indicate that what has gone wrong in the past is unimportant, it is meant to improve what happens in the future.
P. S. Re your comments on the way parents were treated in the parent education part of the program: the parent workshops that I attended were not always as mild as you might think--I had one with Mel Wasserman in which he brought a number of people to tears, and in which he was very, very direct with just about everyone he spoke to, not going out of his way to spare feelings at all. As far as I can tell he was usually right in his observations: he was certainly right in his observations of me. The parent sessions were of course very much shorter than the school experience, so in that way the parent and child experiences were markedly different.
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I would avoid any programs listed on this watchdog site: http://www.isaccorp.com/ (http://www.isaccorp.com/)
There are plenty remaining choices.
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Ottawa5- you are too wrapped up in trying to defend your own personal guilt for what you did to your own son.
Of course, you could never simplify things by seeing CEDU as simply malicious evil committed by willful participates which include the parents.
Maybe you didn't know what you were doing to your poor son.
But now you do. Wake up!
You have no idea what he's been through. I could NEVER discuss those things openly with my own mother.
The very headmaster at the school Tim Brace told us all in detail about getting buttfucked for fun in his younger days!!
What would you do if your son's public highschool principal discussed that with him?
Would you defend it by saying,"Well, the principal's not 'all' bad?"
Do you have any idea how stupid you sound to me?
Or maybe you don't believe me. Well, there are a few people on this site brave enough to confirm things of this nature that happened at CEDU.
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In the best of all worlds, I'd rather not sound stupid to anyone, actually, but if the price for my own integrity and standing by what I believe is that I sound stupid to you, I guess I will have to pay it--who knows, somebody out there may even be find that you sound stupid to them--it's not impossible. That's the price everyone pays for saying what they believe, at one time or another. I am not going to get too upset about it and neither should you.
Actually, before posting, I had a little look round at some of your previous posts. You have a lot of fire, I don't imagine that you care one way or the other, but I admire that. And, as you say, you aren't afraid to say what you think.
Also I think that you are very perceptive--I do feel a lot of guilt over what my son had to go through to become, as he is now, a fully-functioning person. So in a way, you are right, you are right in sensing my guilt, but it is a little more complicated than it sounds when you say it in your direct way.
I feel very bad that my son got to the point that we decided to use a boarding school before realizing what was going on. I've told him so, many times, and though he forgives us totally, I still need to do a little work on forgiving myself. I truly don't attach that feeling of guilt to the school we used, probably because we had a good experience with the whole thing...I perceive the school as a necessary evil that helped remedy what I had allowed to happen up to that point.
I don't know who Tim Brace is, perhaps he wasn't there when we were involved with the school (we were at RMA, if that explains my lack of awareness of that individual). And of course my son wouldn't tell me every detail of his life at school or beyond, especially sexually associated details and incidents--it would be very unusual, I think,and often not very healthy, in terms of typical developmental boundaries, if it were otherwise.
But what I do know is that my son is an honest, straight-forward, aware person, and if he had had an overall negative experience at the school, he would let me know that--not only because we understand each other, but because he would not want me trying to re-create any part of that experience in a school of my own.
However, the strength of your convictions, your confrontory style--it has a place, I hope you keep it up, strong people won't be shook by it, and it may help less strong people stand up for themselves.
And I will think about what you've said, as I say, you seem very perceptive to me, I appreciate your input.
I don't think you're going to like this last part, but here goes. There was a time when I would have been absolutely terrified to disagree with someone like you who comes on so strong. I would have been terrified, even of writing, in this pretty private way. My "Parent Workshops" work was when that changed that, I can't remember the last time I was bullied by someone, although I retain a natural fear of being harmed physically by violent people, that kind of thing.
No, I will not agree that the whole experience was bad, either for my son or for me--I can accept that you had a lousy experience, why cannot you not even consider that I had a good one?
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This would all be well and good except it has become public that Synanon AND it's offspring (CEDU, RMA, etc.) are extremely questionable. Their days are numbered. It only takes one 60 minutes expose or NY Times article to close the lid of the coffin. Go ahead and be a powerful megalomaniac like Earle, Brace, Wasserman and Dederich. Noone's buying it anymore.
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OK. Ottawa, for the sake of argument, you said it wouldn't be healthy if your son told you every minute detail about his life. At CEDU, staff spilled every part of their sexual and other dysfunctions whether it involved waste products smeared all over themselves etc., and some pretty repugnant sexual experiences (even animals). Do you really think this is healthy? Don't you think they are working out their own issues with us instead of fixing their own selves first and then retaining some sense of therapeutic boundaries? In fact, in many cases, I believe that b/c many of them were poorly accredited, they had no idea how to maintain healthy boundaries, often getting their own BS mixed up with ours. An example of this is the family head who was addicted to cocaine (pre CEDU) and then treated anyone who ever tried a drug as an addict and telling their parents the same. This happened to me and I EASILY gave up experimenting with drugs 5 months prior to CEDU (and never went back. Chocolate is my thing.) So any time I was in a rap, he'd bring up drugs, but (this is not why my parents sent me to CEDU) only after I told him I experimented earlier in my teens. He never did get around to the REAL issues.
Shanlea
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Many who are molested blame themselves.
So do many rape victims.
I've never claimed I wasn't an asshole.
I have very few friends because of it, but that's just who I am.
Ottawa5- I'm very impressed with how cool headed you remained. I wish I could do that. My blood just boils very easily.
I'm glad we can see eachother's point of view.
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Shanlea, You have touched on a topic that has bothered me for some time--how much a person in the caring professions should self-disclose.
I run into it all the time. Today, at my psychology practicum, I was working with a paranoid schizophrenic, a lovely man, but he wanted to know all about my life, and I had to constantly ask myself, "Is what I may say next helpful; is it necessary, is it wise?".
There are, in fact, books written on this subject, but in the actual moment, in therapy, what is in the books never seems right on target.
Every situation is so different. Compound this with a school situation that involves a group of kids (and understandably stressed-out counsellors) rather than a one-to-one therapist-client situation, and the whole thing is problematic.
People can go too far, perhaps at your school you have seen people that did so. But I still believe that some amount of self-disclosure can be good.
And, I know that the following is very unfashionable to say, but it seems to me that if my male child needs to hear self-disclosures that relate to sexual matters and functioning in adolescence, it is better if this information comes from a caring male educator who carefully considers what to disclose--rather than from me, his mother. (This of course presumes that there is not the potential of a caring male within the family, because of divorce, alienation from a step-father, and so on).
I guess the key words are "caring" and "carefully", and on this site, I get the impression that these key elements of self-disclosure have not not always met in the therapeutic boarding school situation.
You have a good sense of these things, if I may say so, this much is obvious. Have you ever considered, once your children are older, perhaps, pursuing studies in one of the caring professions yourself. It seems to me that your experiences of what did not work for you in helping a child who was having trouble navigating adolescence, might be a starting point to describing, and even implimenting what can actually work.
Well, it's not my business, I realize, but it seems, with medical advances, that we are all going to live to 100 or so, so you will have lots of time to do things that are meaningful to you, within your life time.
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Ok. I still don't understand why it's acceptable to you that CEDU manipulates your parents and is dishonest about stuff involving its students. Why would anyone still say it is OK as long as you come out OK in the end. Why is verbal and emotional abuse acceptable if you survive it in the end? (Frankly, these types of abuses are so insidious that people are often screwed up without realizing it a decade or so later.)
Also, if your son went to CEDU in the nineties, you must have a prior connection to CEDU if you did workshops with Mel present.
Shanlea
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It's not okay. They say that Hitler loved children.
Like I said, Ottawa is wrapped up in denial.
If what we are saying is true- then what did she put her son through?
Her opinion is subjective and so are ours.
Her responses will come analytically, flatline, and devoid of human emotion.
I am fucking ANGRY at what is and has going on there!!
I have no interest in defending a god damn thing going on up there!
There is NO excuse and it has to fucking stop!!
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I am not sure I am understanding your point.
To try to clarify things, when I've said "CEDU" I've sometimes meant the overall organization, if that is part of the confusion.
My son went to RMA, never CEDU HIgh School. I heard about the school from a teacher at his old high school. The teacher had a neighbor whose child had had a great experience there. After researching it further, we sent him there when the next dangerous event, in a long series of dangerous events, happened.
The way I ended up taking a workshop with Mel Wasserman was this: I had just taken the introductory parent workshop with Bill Valentine in Sandpoint Idaho. Then I heard that Mel was coming to Idaho and giving his very last presentation, an advanced workshop, before the CEDUschools were sold to the Brown Schools.
So I got approval to take this advanced workshop before I took the intermediate one, because I was very pleased with the program and wanted to meet the person who started it. This was my only interaction with Mel. I know that he was not in Idaho on a day-to-day basis during any of the time we were involved in RMA.
I really did not find that I was manipulated by RMA. To be sure, after deciding on the school, I accepted its basic program. But there were times when the team tried to convince me on certain courses of action, for example, seeking extended custody, and I decided on balance, not to do so, and told them, and they were very accepting of my decision. To me it was more like a partnership, they offered their expertise, with the understanding that, as a parent, I still was a decision maker. But it seems unreasonable to think that I would be able to arbitrarily change the very program that I had accepted.
And this issue of abuse: I am perfectly willing to believe you if you say you were abused. But you must consider that I know my own child, not to mention several of his RMA friends. I know them well. It would seem foolish for me to dismiss what they say and how they are doing and arbitrarily decide that they must have been abused because you say they were. You can see that this would be a foolish way to act, can't you?
There is a difference between confrontation and abuse, and certainly counselors can cross the line and from what you say, some of yours did. But I continue to believe that when an adolescent is bent on antisocial, self-endangering behavior, some degree of coercion and confrontation is necessary. I can agree that it must be done in a caring, skilled, and insightful way. It also may be a matter of what you consider emotional or verbal abuse--some things I would guess that we would agree on, other things we might see differently.
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It is your self-focused attitude that is the reason why CEDU and places like it still exist.
It is your same line of thought that is used to excuse all of our complacency in allowing it to continue and remain ignorant.
I was completely wrong about you.
You are so selfish it sickens me.
Because your son and a few others had a good experience at CEDU, how can you disregard the abuse there!
No one is saying your son was abused!
We're saying we fucking were!
But I guess you only care for your son!
Yes you do act very foolishly!
You really still think you were a decision maker in your son's life at RMA?
Jesus Christ - this shows how absolutely naive or in complete denial you are.
You are so blind, that this is the last post I will ever make on this Forum to you directly.
I will not waste my time on a blind person who just needs to open their eyes!
On a personal level, I am completely disappointed of you and I really do feel sorry for you. It must be very tiring.
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Now before you become permanently disgusted wiht me, at least consider what I am saying in more detail.
Of course I care if people are being treated badly, at CEDU or anywhere. And where I can, I want to find ways to help.
It probably is not the biggest thing in the world, but I am proud of the fact that, at a relatively late time in my life, I have been able to find a way of helping people in trouble. I'm doing this by learning in my psych program to use the abstract principles of different psychological perspectives to meet the needs of real people who each have a different experience which must be respected and approached in an individualized way. This kind of thing was not even on my radar screen before I went through the emotional growth things at RMA--whatever its flaws, for me, that program really opened up my eyes in a lot of ways, I have to say it.
If you found my post to be self-centered, it may be because I thought that the person addressing me was asking about my particular experience and my son's. It isn't really fair to consider that self-centered, it's part of answering the question, at least as I understood the question.
And it was pretty late when I got home and responded to what I saw, and I had been working almost non-stop since 5:00 AM, if I missed a nuance of the post that made my answer sound self-centered I am really sorry--that was not my intention.
I've said it before, I can't deny my own reality, or my son's, not even for the approval of people who I realize know a lot and who I have been learning a lot from.
And I have been learning a lot from some of the other posters here, such as that our family's experience was not everyone's, something that I was not sure of before--I used to think that the only kids who didn't benefit had either deep-seated problems or some other factors that interfered with benefiting from the program. From what I've seen here I am convinced that it is much more complicated than that.
Yet everything that I've seen with a whole other group of people convinces me that the confrontory style of much of the program was helpful to them.
So I am trying to make sense of these conflicting stories and to find an explanation that make these two true things make sense to me.
I am very interested, for instance, in learning and perhaps developing ways of confrontation that do not carry the potential to be detrimental to certain groups, or even ways to understand better which groups of people just aren't suited for confrontory techiques at all.
And of course, as I have always believed, if you can use reason and give-and-take conversation with a child or anyone else, it is always the best way. It's just been my experience that in terms of developmental issues (adolescent egocentrism for one) in some kids who have gotten off course, sometimes you really can't have that conversation in time to keep them from getting into a lot of trouble without some intrusion into what they would prefer to be doing.
So you have a perfect right to believe what you want to believe about me and act accordingly, but I hope you will consider what I've said.
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Alright ottawa, i accept that you are not the person that i suspected you were, but you might as well be, because if Pat Savage was here, I bet that her views would mirror yours. truth be told, i think bryan is right, you are in denial.
Reading your posts on this topic, i get the impression that in your mind you logically divide cedu survivors into two groups: those who view the experience as positive, and those of us with who view the experience as negative. Of course you view your experience as positive, and when discussing cedu schools, it is clear that you defend the positive experience. you defend your own, all fine and dandy. what bothers me, is that it is becoming all too clear that you view the split between the 2 experiences as being 50/50 (50% view cedu positively, 50% view it negatively). YOU ARE DEAD WRONG!
Having spent 1 year and 7 months at CEDU "highschool" (it is not really a school by any stretch of the imagination), i witnessed 3 graduations, and the largest peer group that ever i saw graduate had 7 people. Please bear in mind that peer groups when formed usually have between 15 and 20 people. i also know for a fact that 2 of the peer groups that i saw graduate had combined at some point (2 peer groups combined together to create 1, this was done because either 1 or both peer groups had too few students due to run aways, expulsions, etc.) By all accounts that i have heard, this practice is typical of all cedu schools. Bryan Felscher graduated right before i split for the final time. when i first came to cedu, Bryan's peer group had just combined with the one above it, and they had 21 students. Bryan's graduating class consisted of 5 students! i've read some of CEDU's bullshit sales literature, which boasts that 80-90% of Cedu graduates go on to college. A more accurate (and by far more truthful) statistic would state that out of all the students who attended Cedu, only 15%-20% (this is a very generous assessment on my part) actually finish the program. if you don't believe me, do the math yourself, or better yet ask your son or any of the other posters on this site!!! i know that they will all agree with me!
You seem like an educated and intelligent person, i'm sure you would agree with me that the students like myself who left early (who either ran away and lived on the streets, were sent to lock ups & mental hospitals, or who were fortunate enough that their parents figured out that cedu is a big waste of money and pulled them out) do not view cedu in a positive light.
Furthermore, many of the posters on this sight, such as bryan felscher for example, are cedu graduates, and are just as disgusted with cedu as the rest of us. what is the point of all this?
my point is that you, your son, and everyone else who views cedu as a positive experience, are a minority! and not just a minority, but a great, big, huge, gigantic,larger than life, minority!!! yet you do not acknowledge this, and in fact, you continue to defend much of what Cedu does! this proves to me beyond any shadow of doubt that: YOU ARE IN DENIAL!!!
Another thing, you often speak of your own "emotional growth" experiences at cedu in a manner that to me, suggests that you believe that your experiences is on par with the rest of ours; meaning that, it seems that you believe that you understand what we went through. YOU HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE WHAT WE WENT THROUGH! i don't care what your son told you, even if you have heard every minute detail, at best it is all second hand information. And please don't compare the parent workshops to our profeets. luxery hotel suites, gourmet meals, and cocktail hour, coupled by the fact that the 24hr. profeet experience is stretched out over a 2-3 day period, with no raps: THIS IS NOT THE CEDU WE EXPERIENCED!!!!!!
As for your beleif that the confrontational methods used by cedu staff has theraputic value, again, YOU HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE!!! there is no communication in raps. Staff Members gather their attack dogs together, and scream at,
threaten, ridicule, and completely degrade
people until they have a complete emotional break down, in order to force confessions from them! you have no idea of the kind of pressure that they put on you. Many kids at cedu who really never did anything wrong, end up making things up, thinking that staff will leave them alone if they just say something, THEY DON'T LEAVE YOU ALONE! whatever you tell them, they use it to label you somehow, and then they continue to use that against you, day after day after day! i love life, and i never, ever, considered suicide before i went to cedu. i never considered suicide after i left cedu. but while i was at cedu, i thought about killing myself every single day! That is what cedu did to my head! As I understand it, your son's school RMA, actually did drive some poor kid to kill himself. Does that sound theraputic to you? HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU DEFEND THAT?
What really scares me is that you want to someday start your own school, and apparently you are considering using some of cedu's methods. :scared: PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, LIFE, CHILDREN, OR WHATEVER IT IS THAT YOU HOLD DEAR, DO NOT USE CEDU AS AN EXAMPLE!!! confrontation does not breed communication. think about your psychology courses, what they teach you. in nature, when an animal(yes human beings are animals, even though most of us think we're better than them)is forcibly confronted,there are 3 natural physical responses --- fight, flight (run away),and freeze (scared stiff).
i'm sure you agree that fighting is not a productive way to communicate (i guess it is if your message is leave me alone, i hate you, or i want to hurt or kill you). it's virtually impossible to talk with someone while they're running away from you. And people who are scared stiff either won't say anything, or they will say whatever they think you want to hear to escape the situation. this is not productive communication.
the way to successfully communicate with people is to be honest, sincere, curtious, and respectful to them. Respect their privacy, keep your conversations between the two of you, it's no one elses business anyways. listen to what they have to say, don't ridicule them, or insult their ideas and beliefs. Respect that others have the right to their own opinion, treat them as equals. Let them know that you are here to help, but only if they want it. be patient. in time they will come to trust you, and will open up to you. this is how to communicate with people, and this is exactly the opposite of what cedu does!!!
Ottawa, you've been around a lot longer than I have, you should know all of this. please, before you go on another one of your rants defending yourself and saying how we all misunderstand you, at least think about what I am saying. Everyone can talk, it's easy, but it takes real skill to actually listen.
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Ottawa, the way S.O.S. describes the raps is exactly how I experienced it.
Another thing: I split after 6 months (not something I would normally ever do--I am not that brave). The reason was a fundamental lack of honesty and direct (rather than cedufied) communication, along with coersion that I felt at the school. I knew if I stayed I would be forced to lie about myself and bully others. They break you down until you do and I saw most kids do this. They would even make the passive kids go around and spew venom at every single kid in the rap---they would be making up stuff and the staff knew it and encouraged it. THe other thing, again, is that the school inculcates and atmosphere to make you feel dirty for normal everyday teenage stuff along with traumatic experiences that happen to you. (I'm not talking about the stuff you should be held accountable for)
A philosophy that promulgates this behavior is barren of any integrity.
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With reference to Son of Serbia's contribution given so energetically a couple of posts ago: just a few points in reply, to keep it simple and useful:
1) Do you have any proof that the great majority of CEDU graduates view their experience as negative? I am asking sincerely: do you have any proof? I know you have anecdotes and so do I. I mean any kind of survey, even on an internet site, or research or anything?
Because I see a few posted names here that tend to appear repeatedly, and I personally know a fairly large number of people who do not feel that way, but that still leaves the great majority of people who attended these schools unaccounted for.
It must certainly occur to you that if I am biased because I am brainwashed or whatever, the population that takes the time to post often at a "Hate CEDU" site is not necessarily representative of all the students who attended this kind of school.
I know that RMA's own internal data shows a very high success rate. but understandably internal data is to at least be questioned.
2) I have never suggested that my experience was the same as my son's--please do not assume that because that's all it is: your assumption. What I am saying is that the workshops were positive for me--which happens to be true and which is not going to change because it's not P.C. to say so here--if this truth bothers you, I regret it, and perhaps it's a deal-breaker as far as meaningful communication goes, but there it is.
3) On the subject of whether all confrontation is bad, we will simply have to disagree--we can agree that the form and the tone of the confrontation makes a big difference--that may be as much common ground as is possible between me and someone like yourself. Sometimes, that's the way it is when people ascribe to different value systems, have different life experiences, etc.
4) Putting a phrase such as "YOU ARE IN DENIAL" in caps may be useful to illustrate the force of your belief--it doesn't however make it true when it is not.
Look, I am not going to buy into a lot of hostility, I'm not going to be talked into saying things I don't believe, and I am sure not going to get derailed from my purpose because somebody gets upset and "rants" about the fact that I am "ranting".
Actually one or two more rants at this site ought to blend right in. However, do what you have to do, I'll try to take what is positive in what I find here and leave the rest. [ This Message was edited by: ottawa5 on 2004-07-23 20:01 ][ This Message was edited by: ottawa5 on 2004-07-24 22:36 ]
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OK. I guess the problem concerns objective truths. I think there are subjective truths and objective truths. If there were no objective truths, there would be no way to have a relatively safe, orderly society. To me, a place run by cultists (I realize that you don't agree with this definition)who aren't honest and are verbally abusive and encourage this in their "therapeutic" group sessions lack baseline ethics and moral fortitude. If you think the way these raps are run are subjective, then there is no point in discussion. I mean, they think its ok to kill women who have been tainted by rape in other societies, so I guess I can say that is their subjective truth. If I were to apply this "subjective truth" to every evil/unethical action in the world, we would be in deep s*&^.
The other thing is that after CEDU, even if you split, you are often still CEDU-fied. THe experiences there are so intense, you can't just shake it off. Even though I split, it was years and years before I ever disclosed fully (even to myself) why I left, because it wasn't to go back to screwing up. Instead, I over focused on the positive for me (this really entailed the hard physical labor, wilderness, forcing myself to deal w/disability -- not by the staff or by therapeutic measure by by the circumstances there) and suppressed the utter fear and anxiety of the raps and propheets, the falsehood propagated in these forums, the bullies at the school, the isolation and manipulation from and of my parents, the inability to question any part of the very flawed system, and frankly, the dangerous pasts of a few of the students. I know for a fact that it was too scary for most kids to EVER say how they felt about the program to parents, staff, visitors because of the ramifications later...your life would be a living hell. What happens is that this becomes so conditioned that you still follow this code even after you leave.
On another site some people admit that if you asked them on their graduation day how they felt, it would be more positive than after they are reimmersed in the real world and have time to process it away from the insularity of CEDU. Various people have said they have nightmares ten, fifteen years later.
The other thing is that if you had any history with drugs or low self esteem, you get conditioned to believe you can't beat it without CEDU and see the place as your savior. Many kids did not have real drug problems but were conditioned to believe they did or would. I guess if you really did have a drug problem then you might see CEDU as a savior, especially with those tools given to you that don't always seem to work in real life.
All in all, there were too many kids there who were parked there by their rich parents who never dealt with their real issues because the staff both recklessly mislabled and mishandled you.
These kids get out of school thinking they are OK and then end up swept by a tidal wave when they realize they have to deal with the same, unresolved issues.
Shanlea
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i don't know what percentage of students feel a particular way...
honestly, there are tons of people who couldn't handle cedu because they were unprepared. there were others that just blocked it out. either way, everyone was effected in one way or another.
i think that if cedu was actually honest with parents about their methods of treatment, then the parents could make a better choice about whether or not to send their kids to cedu.
for me, it goes back to the standardized approach in which all children are treated in the same way... well, we're all different, and we're all inevitably going to respond in different ways. we all have different histories, different internal languages, different perspectives. in order to actually help someone in a way which is most suitable for them, you must build a relationship with the person and decide which approaches would yield the best results. it actually IS about manipulation, but it must remain ethical (in the therapised's best interest.) i think that's where the problem lays; most people think that their standard method is the best method for everybody. and they think that pushing their standards off onto another person in such a harsh manner is the way to get the results they want (which just proves that they're not interested in what the kid wants, it's about the skool's agenda.) that's a no-no.[ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-07-24 13:23 ]
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Ottawa5 This is a mutual site where we are fighting
the CEDU fascist philosophy. Do you understand that!
Get out of here. Why don't you go onto CEDU'S site?
Can't you see that we all share a common goal of shutting CEDU down?
Why can't you just fucking leave us alone?
Why are you fighting us?
Can't you see what you are doing?
Why don't you just go on CEDU's site and convince everyone how good everything is?
What the hell is your motivation?
What are you trying to do?
Leave us alone!!
We already heard ALL about your perspective during our internment at CEDU!!
On a personal note, I fucking HATE you and everyone of your mentality.
On a personal note why don't you just FUCK OFF!!
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Bryan--You may want to try some new words or insults, if you find that the old standbys you favor are either losing their shock value or becoming kind of immature for an adult and a father to use--just a thought.
No, I will not leave this site, not until I choose to. Although I do not anticipate any meaningful conversation with you, at least not until something changes drastically in your current approach, there may be others that I want to interact with. And there may be new visitors to the site: they can read your comments and mine, and make their own determinations of the relative weight to give to them.
The tone of your post seems to indicate that you see this site as your own personal playpen-- when I hear that from the site's owner, I'll take it seriously. And I will visit other sites also as I have been doing, I thought that I had made pretty clear that I am comparing points of view from different sources, but I guess you didn't understand that.
That's about it, I just dealt with a similar recent post from you on another "Hot Topics" forum--you can refer to that one if my position about your present point of view is not clear.
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To all the people on this site, be clear of the audience you are trying to reach. See I went to CEDU "highschool" and graduated as well, and had both a shitty experience, and a great experience. I will tell you one thing though, my past is more fucked up then you all could imagine. In fact my family is. My mom is a drug addict who has been divorced twice, and my father is mormon and makes me clean the house and watch the kids...I grew up in quite a poor house hold in which I was neglected and abused. See, I have got a past that most are scared of, but you know what? Who fucking cares. It was a time in your fucking life. And none of you actually care about the kids that are at the school now...in fact I would venture to say that none of you even know ANYBODY that works there anymore. The only familiar name I heard was Russ Decker, and I will have you know that, yes, Russ can come down hard, but he is a very fun and personable character. Don't confuse bluntness with abuse. See, I know the kids that are at CEDU and they don't feel abused! If the school was shut down, they'd, for the most part, be crushed because they'd have to leave the best friends of their life. When I say best friend, I mean the closest friends. Let me tell you something, whether I advocate CEDU or not...the truth of the matter is that CEDU has things that work for some, and some that don't for others. If you are here to talk about your experience and how horrible or how good it was, fine. And do you actually believe that you will shut down CEDU? Please the place has been through hell and back, it won't get shut down for a while. Get over it, you went to the fucking school, and you're gone, so there is no problem. You DO NOT care about the people there nor the things happening there because you don't know that anymore. Find a new hobby instead of trying to shut something down that you don't even know anymore.
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okies..not sure if it was covered, and i cant be arsed to check so ill repeat if it has..
numbah 1.. open your internet browser, go to tools, click options, delete cookies, delete files.
thats the easy one
the BEST one to do, which will A) REALLY get rid of the cookies and garbage..and 2) will make you run a bit faster is this:
click start..click run..type %temp% and this will bring you to the REAL temp files..Ctrl+a to select all..and delete all files..
hope this helps..btw..that would have cost you 30 odd dollars from tech support :razz:
::EDIT::[ This Message was edited by: RegalPlague on 2004-08-04 21:07 ]
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As far as your past goes- big deal, I'm fucking weeping.
You don't have a clue man. In fact, you think the past is where the pain's at? With the combination of your parents and Cedu, you are in for a rough life. I don't even know what advice to give you.
I hope someone here does.
Those friendships will fade, your enthusiasm for CEDU will isolate you, and given your past experience, you will most likely numb the pain with drugs or alcohol.
I hope to God I'm wrong.
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To Anon:
It's not about weeping over CEDU. It's about unethical and abusive practices, medical neglect etc. Manipulating parents and students. I'm not crying over blunt words you moron. I'm not afraid of direct communication and truthfulness. But that is not what it was about. Parents are spending a boatload of cash for BS "therapy."
Maybe its OK for you to just forget it and not give a crap about their latest recruits.
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I don't think he's a moron and I don't believe he doesn't give a shit. Most people don't even have the balls to post on this site at all.
I think he's a young kid who didn't get to grow up normally and beyond that he has had a very rough life.
I don't think we should attack him for that.
Let time tell what will be his fate. Remember guys,
he just got out of 2 1/2 years of heavy brainwashing so imagine what he's going through.
Don't you remember the confusion? Or has it been too long?
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Alright, I'm sorry about the moron bit. I just get pissed when people say "get over it." Believe me, I was confused for years after CEDU.
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On 2004-08-04 16:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
" I will tell you one thing though, my past is more fucked up then you all could imagine. In fact my family is. My mom is a drug addict who has been divorced twice, and my father is mormon and makes me clean the house and watch the kids...I grew up in quite a poor house hold in which I was neglected and abused. See, I have got a past that most are scared of,
Sorry, but you have no idea what any of us have been through either. Your past is no more scary than mine or many many others. You ain't special dear.
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I don't believe I ever asked anybody to feel sorry for me, I don't even feel sorry for myself. My simple point was that you all are being retarded about this. You got sent to fucking CEDU, get the fuck over it. If you are not there anymore, then why the fuck does it matter? It doesn't. You're not there. Sorry if any of you got "abused" there, that sucks, but if I recall correctly, and I was there recently, there was no abuse going on. And just so whoever the hell it was that predicted that bleary outcome for me, that is funny. I don't have a particular "enthusiasm" for CEDU - I just happened to stumble upon this sight when doing research about the history of the school. As well as I have had my drug and alcohol days and with those, the shittiness of an addicts life. Therefore, I am pretty much through with that. I am not a "dreamer" or any of that bullshit. I am a straight foward and logical person, who happened to have a fucked up past, I've reconciled with it, and now I am moving on. Something of which you all should do as well. Have a nice day, I hope ya'll find some peace.
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how all the stuff with Otowa5&2 started. I just want to say again that my experience was not really good. Even if it MIGHT have saved me. And that phone call with mom and dad and the threats of jail until I was 18. True. That is unfair. Being punished for what? I had never stolen anyones shit (money, car, or soul)did tons of drugs, I hadn't done anything but run away alot. So I was punished for adolesence. Nothing more. FOlks had a baby and I had basic sibling rivalry that took arms and starting revolting early. Lot's of personal factors, of course. But to be punished for hormonal changes? Puberty?
And the raps. Described well, accurately and in detail in many postings. And to take us all out of oblivion, it's like this: People feel things differently. Some people who went to CEDU or RMA feel things a LOT. We can't help it. When we were in our most developemental period the kind of communication we recieved was totally inappropriate. And the messages WERE hostile, out of touch, scary, mean, very wierd sometimes, and unpredictable when the fire would combust under you for NOTHING.
And as for abuse. There was physical hazings in the dorms and everywhere else that staff were not privy to or supported. Ex CEDUITES were the worse.
Yes, I've been in touch a little with some staff and ex staff and they comment that these places have already changed a lot since 1990 and that the confrontational style that was employed during my tenure at RMA is different now. Non confrontational. So OTTS listen. What I think some of us are still needing to fight against is the idea that ANYONE can like it. I've been rational a long time about it but now...I'm with the Serb (staunch enemies of Hitler and facism) and Bryan who has more definitive statements with a FIRSTHAND experience like MINE. I loved it when I was brainwashed, and I Love the master who gave me my food and sometimes didn't beat me up hard for no reason. Fuck. It's hard to be nice to anyone who tells me what they don't know. Fuck the anons who defend CEDU ED and fuck the non anons who support CEDU too. whoops now I'm negative. I've got my summit and I DO use it, but man I wish I had a choice about the matter. I was ready after 2.5 years but a shell of the young man I could have become. I had to wait until I wasn't terrified of the world anymore. Then the nightmares about RMA started. The re-occuring dreams of returning there. Lies of love. Dreams of Raps and special moments that were only special becuase they stopped the current for a while. sheesh. Oh. BTW. I found a lot of the staff that I mentioned on another thread. I know where some of you work. And you ex-students who decided to take up with Ex staffers: Adam R., I can't wait to find out that you have had your pants sued off. What weaklings you are to NEVER try to live without the "program". And I resent the words you many have had for me and OUR kind who have experienced your evil EVIL will. You can't change the world while imprisoning children.
Ottowas, I'm glad I got involved. I'm great with kids but you shoud NEVER, NEVER think you would know what the fuck to do with a teen like I was. Sickening limp noodle and the gal needs something better to do with her time. This is not for people who don't want to hear the TRUTH.