Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: blownawaytheidahoway on July 11, 2004, 03:08:00 PM
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:cry2:
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REDACTED
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These are not the opening lines of a novel. These aren?t characters that I made up. This is not something that happened inside my head. This happened to me. My dad left me. There. Here?s what happened there:
Bonners Ferry, Idaho is way the fuck out in the middle of nowhere. Panhandle. Go even further north ten miles until you are really close to the Canadian border. That is the location. If you remember Ruby Ridge, you are in the right neighborhood. Incidentally, just a few months prior to my arrival, one of Richard Armstrong?s collegues at RMA quietly left ?teaching? at the ?school? after being privately exposed as a white supremecist. With a plan in motion to kidnap kids ?especially Jewish ones? to ransom for monies destined for Hayden Lake, Idaho where the Aryan Nation had its headquarters. I would like to think that had my parents been provided with this information, perhaps I would have been spared the next two and a half years. Maybe they would?ve had a quick preview of the potential dangers that I could engage with and decide against this treachery. But I don?t think anyone in my family was keeping up to current events in an area almost as sparsely populated as Atlantis. I will probably say ?As I look back on it? so many times that every time I mean that or ?in hindsight? or ?retrospect? that I will just say AILBOI. So: AILBOI, I remember being woken up damn early in the morning by my father. We had rented a car in some god forsaken place named Spokane. I came along for the airplane ride. We were going skiing. In July. So in order to reciprocate the good intentions of my father, I agreed to look at some boarding school that was near the slopes. It was pretty cold, I remember. Though I remember also almost never being awake before eleven or later before this. Maybe there would be some snow up higher in the mountains. Well, it was so damn early and we had gotten in from the airport pretty late that I slept. And I was still pretty much asleep as we made our way from the hotel that morning. Kootenai Inn. I ?ll never forget it.
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Oh lawdy what a can o worms ima openin 2day.
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I ran away when Ruby Ridge was going down Bruce Wilson and Sheila the aerobics teacher told me not to go but I did not believe them. As you Know all we could watch was sports on T.V. I got picked up by Feds one mile off campus the said the town was under marshall law.
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There is a book about Ruby Ridge in which RMA is mentioned specifically a few times. It's one of the only books about the event and if you are interested it's easy to find.
Does anyone know about any books/movies about RMA? I know of a documentary but I never saw it.
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I ran away and lived off campus with some folks that greww some stuff and knew the handy man there. All the locals we used to pparty with hated RMA. One night I met a fellow who was in with Weaver He was a nut.
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wow no shit. Now I wanna talk
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There was some wild folks up in the mountains from white power dude to veitnam vets. Katka mountain had some crazy motherfuckers up there. ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed::
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I remember seeing the burnt down barn where something went down. Either way the above titled movie with Sean Penn is a fine film. Check it.
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Debbie one of the Kitchen ladies was rumored to be the ex of the snowman. The burnt down barn was a huge pot deal gone bad.
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I think I remember Debbie. Man 'at's a long time ago. Oh about the pot deal. I thought it was related to one of them running from feds.
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You don't have your facts correct. Richard Armstrong resigned well before my graduation in June, 1988. He was gone by your stated arrival on 07/11/88. I'd love to hear your explanation for this.
Voyager Family Staff in June 1986:
Richard Armstrong
Caroline Wolfe
Ned Murray
John Aaron
Herman Allmaras, 1988
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Blown away has his facts right, I was there 1990-1993 and Armstrong was not working at RMA he was a bounty hunter that went and picked kids up and brought them to RMA. Alot of kids got there by Armstrong waking them up in the middle of the night and taking them to Idaho. If I am not mistaken he got in trouble not long ago and sued. ::armed::
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Try to negate my own experience! Try it. Richard Armstrong was there. Richard Armstrong and I had raps too. Richard Armstrong had conversations with me that I remember not to pleasantly since he was coming from a power position and obviously got off on it- as explained in my explanation of why he was looking up my 14 year old asshole for some other reason than his own Hard on.
So, I don't know why you would want to tell me MY facts about MY life are wrong when you don't even know me or WHO I am.
Let's play some more.
"I am a forgiving and trusting man".
and
I am pissed.
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Relax. I didn't insult you or negate anything. I think we have a slight misunderstanding.
Richard Armstrong quit RMA and left his position as Voyager Family Head well before I graduated on June 11th, 1988, and that's a fact. I distinctly remember Tim Brace announcing this in front of the house just as he announced the departure of Bret and Lisa Carey. If Armstrong became a bounty hunter after I left and began catching and hauling kids to RMA like a guy named Mike Parr caught me out of Anchorage in January of 1986, I wasn't aware of it. If he returned to RMA as a staffer after my departure I wasn't aware of it. But let me ask you, when you knew Armstrong was he self-employed as a bounty hunter or did he actually return to work on campus employed by RMA again?
Or was he performing a duel role as a staff who ran raps and bounty hunted on the side? Did RMA eventually employ their own bounty hunter(s)?
I am not trying to anger you or anybody else, its just a question. I have heard some weird stuff went down post 1989 and would like clarification.
By the way, if you had to sit through 5 hour long raps with Richard like I did I feel your pain. Richard, however, wasn't even close to the most intimidating rap-runner. That would have been Randy or Caroline, Mare, or Carmen Earle if she was still there. Steve Rookey had some pipes too.
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Caroline was cruel. She used her training to belittle and demean people. I've never forgotten her bragging about making bets at a restaurant she could have her waitress crying within 5 minutes. Lovely person. Enjoy-Polarbear
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I left RMA in 1987. Richard was still there. I really liked Mare. She was one heck of a caring woman. I do not remember her being harsh. I remember her being more on the mark, and self-aware. I donot remember her being much of a screamer either.
I remember a rap right before Christmas. I could have gone home visit that Christmas, but I had no where to go. Everyone in my peer group had been home already at least twice and many had been home three times, but not me. The truth was that I did not have a 'home' to go to. Mare was running that rap. Mare let me sit in her lap while I cried about being alone. For what ever reason, that cry while being held made the holiday season moderately bearable.
Caroline and Randy, however, where another story. They seemed crazy to me. They were weird, and at first I was really hurt by the things that'd scream at me in raps. Then I got to a point, where I knew that they are/were losers. And, I could sit in raps calmly while they yelled at me for what ever made them happy. In my Summit, I rember Caroline screaming at me saying that no one loved me, that I'd never have a home, and more items along those lines. I also remember her exasperation at the fact that I never took the bait. I did not yell back at her. I simply sat there and let her yell, while thinking that in a matter of weeks I would never have to see her again. If I remember correctly she started yelling at me and calling me very mean spirited names for not taking her bait. The more worked up she became, the more I enjoyed her performance. I knew her game from before I came to RMA. She was not the first person I came across that was sadistic enough to enjoy hurting people. And the best way to get back at a sadist, when you are a powerless child, is to simply shut them out.
The only thing, I remember about raps with Steve Rookie was him working through his own feelings. I remember thinking, that maybe things in my life by comparision really were not that bad.
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1991
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /np03.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1991/1/np03.html)
Boundarylines
(208) 267-7797
Moyie Springs, Idaho
BOUNDARYLINES, Moyie Springs, Idaho 208-267-7797. Richard Armstrong has established Boundarylines, a crisis care and transport service for teenagers with behavior and emotional problems. His emphasis is immediate intervention when a crisis develops. When appropriate, he will utilize his 22 acre homestead and ranch on the banks of the scenic Moyie River in a remote section of North Idaho to stabilize the child and prepare the personal growth plan the child needs. Richard has successfully worked with children at Rocky Mountain Academy, Pathfinders Way, and Squaw Valley Academy. Before that and before he married and started a family, he learned the ways of the wilderness through trapping, logging, and prospecting in the central Idaho wilderness.
Armstrong's Alaska Adventure
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /np04.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1992/2/np04.html)
1993
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een01.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1993/4/seen01.html)
Richard Armstrong, in North Idaho, says his Boundarylines is back to offering interim care for children lasting from one day up to one month. He can be reached at 208-265-4888.
BOUNDARYLINES, Bonners Ferry, Idaho 208-267-7797. Richard Armstrong has been assisting families this summer with his "way back in" Interim Program setting for students "between programs" in a cozy 3 level country style home.
1997
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /oe03.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1997/10/oe03.html)
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een01.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1999/12/seen01.html)
STEVENSON/ARMSTRONG JUDGEMENT
(Oct. 28, 1999) A federal jury ordered Richard Armstrong to pay $164,595 to Twila Stevenson in a civil action brought by Stevenson. They both had worked together in ?emotional growth? schools and programs as staff, and independently transported self-destructive young people to highly structured schools and programs. This civil legal action was one of several legal actions that started in 1996 when Stevenson and Armstrong terminated a two-year consensual relationship. The specific jury instructions in this action revolved around intentional emotional distress, battery and assault. The jury found for Armstrong that he had not caused emotional distress, and found for Stevenson on the battery and assault accusations, the award being primarily for punitive damages, which was about half of Stevenson?s prior settlement offer. In previous legal decisions, Stevenson?s claims for $50,000 in back pay had been denied, and her accusations of sexual harassment had been dismissed. Previously, Armstrong had voluntarily (and perhaps temporarily) withdrew his counter suit alleging child abuse on Stevenson?s part against Armstrong?s children; his attorney had advised him to handle one thing at a time. Armstrong and his attorney are considering appealing to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeal?s this most recent decision based on numerous evidentiary and other substantive issues arising out of this recently completed civil action.
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Twila Stevenson. Now that's a name I haven't heard in awhile. Twila left RMA shorty after I arrived, I barely remember her. Her and Bruce Wilson had a thing if memory serves.
Twila and Richard Armstrong, wow.
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I remember twila dating Bruce too.
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To be true, I don't know who was paying Richard at the time.
Stacy Wasserman was my Voyageur family head. Caroline is such a bitch, I can't wait to hear where she is.
Will write more about it again later.
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I think the family of the poor kid paid them, RMA refered them. What a bad ass go wake some kid up in the middle of the night and take him from his home, that is not a bounty hunter that is a baby hunter :flame:
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Unless my parents arranged to have Richard there and paid extra for it because I was deemed a threat or highter risk, be was just the person who "moved me in". I am not inclined to believe that my father would take me three thousand miles across the country only to take me to the unltimate end destination himself to leave me in the care of someone's purpose is to pick up the kids. I think that for whatever reason Richard was on the payroll still in some capacity before he started his own "escort" service.
I have actually mentioned this time to them (my parents) recently and there was no memory of that person because the name was insignificant to them. There was no arrangement between them and Richard, just between them and RMA.
I knew Mike Parr though. I ran into him countless times traveling and when he would deliver a new student. He was once employed to excort me back to Bonners from SUWS. He didnt' really trust CEDU ed. and said he hated having to bring me back. I was starved and I wasn't running...I HAD been tenderized for my return to RMA.Parr was unnecessary as was Richard's perverted power play.
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I was at SUWS and I was trying to remember the guy who escorted me down there. i actually stayede at his house one night with his family. He lived in Bonners Ferry, he was pretty cool, I kept asking him what he would do if I ran and he said call the cops.
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I really like Ron Smith. He was a sheriff up in Bonners. I stayed with foster homes for a while while refusing to return to RMA. Ron Smith escorted me to SUWS and assisted Parr when it was time to come back. Smith was a good gut who also told me that he didnt' trust all the goings on there! He came to my graduation though, and it did mean a lot to me. I was probably one of the only students who had an unrelated cop come to watch the festivities. I would like to talk to him again.
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SUWS was a trip, I was out there with one other kid from RMA. We had two other kids from straight of the street, I think what helped them more than survival was our horror stories about RMA. My two instructors out there were husband and wife, they thought RMA was bullshit. The wife came and saw me at RMA, of course I was on a fulltime she joked about helping me escape.
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Excuse me, but what the hell is SUWS?
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SUWS- School of Urban and Wilderness Survival.
A survival program kids from RMA would go to before ascent.
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did you know that SUWS also stemmed from a church group?
1988 was the first year in existance. I have all the paperwork...it was truly a different time. Marketing was the least concern of the company.
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Okay, next question. What is Ascent? Did Dan Krump have anything to do with SUWS?
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hmmm...I don't know. Krump ran my wilderness challenge. If you see "getting laid in a snow cave" the string- you can read about where I accidentally jerked off all over myself while on solo. If not, ask another question about Survival SEWS, because it helped me. Too bad RMA often made me feel incapable because I was most zen when I had to return. Dan was pretty cool. I know he's really old school when it comes to CEDU so...hope he was cool to everyone else...I was sad to hear about Mare's recent passing.
Man, that place was so strange I don't know really what to think of people who I say were "cool" if they worked there.
Anon, do/have you?
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Oh... I just happened upon this thread while searching "Caroline Wolf" on Google. Had to laugh when I read the comments, I was actually wondering what happened to her as I had been having a conversation with my husband about what a bitch she was... Hard to explain to someone who has never experienced her "insight" firsthand.
I was sad to hear that Mare had passed... Since I just saw that in the last post, can anyone fill me in on the when, how etc.
I didn't know her well, only in passing at school but, she was always wonderful to me.
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I am sorry, I do not remember how Mare passed. I really liked her.
But, I am curious how do you explain RMA to your husband? I've had a hard time explaining the place to my partner.
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Do you have a scrapbook? That is how I told my husband about it
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I think I have the scrapbook at the family vacation home in the attic. Great idea. Thank you.
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Incidentally, just a few months prior to my arrival, one of Richard Armstrong?s collegues at RMA quietly left ?teaching? at the ?school? after being privately exposed as a white supremecist. With a plan in motion to kidnap kids ?especially Jewish ones? to ransom for monies destined for Hayden Lake, Idaho where the Aryan Nation had its headquarters. I would like to think that had my parents been provided with this information, perhaps I would have been spared the next two and a half years.
Just consider the possible implications.
Nice :exclaim: From the bottom of any large organization looking up through the ranks, human greed and stupidity look a lot like a conspiracy.
--S. Gilbert
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It has been almost a year since I discovered this site. It has been about a year since I found that other people were as affected by the CEDU system. I found I was not alone. I went to my parents to chat with them about the recent discoveries and validation of the wierdness of the program. (god forbid I would use the term abuse)
They don't want to talk about it. They believe it was a mistake sending me there but that ends their responsibilty. They don't want to talk about all the doubts and confusion that were borne there. They can't admit that those years still touch me daily and reminders are plentiful in both sleeping and waking hours. It's a fight with them when I try to relate some of the finer points of damage inflicted on my self image. It's a fight when I mention that I still struggle with aspects of that time. Does someone have parents who have enough love for me too? I still want it, I still need it to thrive and feel positive, and they do still fail to give me shelter from the storm inside myself.
That is one thing I can never forgive about the program. IT DESTROYED MY CONFIDENCE. Oh, in the short term I thought I was a god. I mean, I was...I did the summit and graduated...why five years later did all seem so distant and faded. A prisoner who is released into the custody of a mental hospital would understand: THEY WERE BIG ISSUES, and they were not dealt with appropiately. Yes, it's over. It's been over since the schools were sold for the first time, and no other kids will go through as intense a program should they find themselves unlucky enough to be "sent away". And yet...the damage has been done. And the hurts are back toward the surface. Rehashing this RMA experience in therapy and conversation has only magnified what a BIG FUCKING DEAL IT WAS! Get out of my head DOUG, VICKI, STEVE, RANDY, CAROLINE, BRUCE, DAN, CARMEN, and the rest. Your yelling and faux love was POISON. I hope your new careers leave you as impotent in the workforce as you left many of us socially.
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Man, I'm glad you found some consolation from this li'll project. I don't know that you can ever "go home", but it is nice to find out others saw what you saw, that you didn't just imagine it all.
However, when I went back to the beginning of this thread, I remembered how much I was looking forward to the next installment written as to the uninitiated. But now you're talking on a different level, to those who know.
Oh well. If you can find it in yourself to drop back into that voice, that would be awsome! You really do have a talent for the meaningful vingette. If not, oh well, just a request from a fan.The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. ... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
--Hermann Goering, Luftwaffe commander, sentenced to death at Nuremberg
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On 2005-05-17 05:34:00, blownawaytheidahoway wrote:
"It has been almost a year since I discovered this site. It has been about a year since I found that other people were as affected by the CEDU system. I found I was not alone. I went to my parents to chat with them about the recent discoveries and validation of the wierdness of the program. (god forbid I would use the term abuse)
They don't want to talk about it. They believe it was a mistake sending me there but that ends their responsibilty. They don't want to talk about all the doubts and confusion that were borne there. They can't admit that those years still touch me daily and reminders are plentiful in both sleeping and waking hours. It's a fight with them when I try to relate some of the finer points of damage inflicted on my self image. It's a fight when I mention that I still struggle with aspects of that time. Does someone have parents who have enough love for me too? I still want it, I still need it to thrive and feel positive, and they do still fail to give me shelter from the storm inside myself.
Isn't that the worst insult to injury? I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. Having no way to validate our experience, this abuse that we were told so many times that we "deserved" by the staff there. This is serious, serious shit, and nobody in the mental health industry cares enough to do something about it. It is about time we recieved some attention and recognition for our ordeals! And we need some help fixing ourselves after all of this! This shit haunts us and fucks us up terminally for the rest of our long or short (suicidal) lives and we need love and some care! People are so fucking sick and fed up of feeling like they were tossed in the trash! This could be the beginning of the end of this country.
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Thank you both so much for the feedback. Truthfully, my project has been halted for two major reason. The first an irritating financial concern since my Cedu cum Liberal Arts education has left me like a fish strapped to a cinder block. The second is I got stopped by the realization that I don't know now HOW to explain WHAT happened. Because I don't know WHAT happened. Which rap, which point in what propheet, did the part of me that just knew what was happening was wrong- die? HOW did I get so brainwashed that I still can't handle hearing propheet music? And when part of a RMA soundtrack starts to play in my head, it is DIFFICULT to silence and purge. Indeed the thoughts and memories of the experience still "haunt" me and keep me awake and upset for unexplainable reasons.
In writing a description of my time there it has become clear that I can't just write from the surface...how can the reader idnetify truly with a rap without experiencing it
themselves? Oh! I'm trying, but I got stuck with writing about the first propheet. It's hard to capture the confusion and wonder and fear we felt. Mystery was a giant presence.
It just got a little overwhelming, but you here have reinvigorated my desire to push on. Thanks.
-blownawaythegoddamnidahoway
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If you just do it a little at a time when inspired and if the initial instalments are any indication, it'll be fantastic!
It is hard to explain, though. Little things that an outsider just can't apreciate. Like a fight I remember having w/ my mother. She asked me why I bleached my hair. I told her I didn't. She insisted that I must because it was so much darker before, when I was in Straight. I explained that was because I had been out in the sun on a fairly regular basis. She refused to believe (even though she was there at the time!) that we never went outside when we were in Straight.
Why such a little thing as that can hurt so much is just really difficult to explain to anybody. I think the human race encountered Peak Intelligence decades or centuries ago. The human race has been degrading into imbeciles ever since.
Eric Hufschmid
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Raps, Propheets, Bans, Work Assignments, Saturday Clean-up, Thoreay's Cabin, The Quest trail, Denali, Emerson, the Ishi etc.... where do I start? Who will understand????
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Write it and find out.
You know, too many weirdos out there. At least with you people I know WHY you are weird!!!
Kady
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On 2005-05-28 20:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Raps, Propheets, Bans, Work Assignments, Saturday Clean-up, Thoreay's Cabin, The Quest trail, Denali, Emerson, the Ishi etc.... where do I start? Who will understand????"
I WILL.
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On 2004-10-26 06:36:00, blownawaytheidahoway wrote:
"I really like Ron Smith. He was a sheriff up in Bonners. I stayed with foster homes for a while while refusing to return to RMA. Ron Smith escorted me to SUWS and assisted Parr when it was time to come back. Smith was a good gut who also told me that he didnt' trust all the goings on there! He came to my graduation though, and it did mean a lot to me. I was probably one of the only students who had an unrelated cop come to watch the festivities. I would like to talk to him again."
A few weeks back I contacted this gentleman. He told me that some years ago, after the urging of some interested parties, to visit the school and sit in on a rap. He displayed relative amazement at the progression of events that afternoon. It seems that one of the staff "lost it". I took this to mean that this staff took care of some feelings...thus freaking the Sherriff out enough that he never wanted to return, and furthermore, he never wanted to return kids again either.
I am dismayed at how the state can allow basic denial of rights to minors by places calling themselves schools. I WAS SO PISSED. I'll not soon forget.
Either way it was great to hear Ron understand a blink of how bizarre the place was.
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On 2005-05-16 16:36:00, Antigen wrote:
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Incidentally, just a few months prior to my arrival, one of Richard Armstrong?s collegues at RMA quietly left ?teaching? at the ?school? after being privately exposed as a white supremecist. With a plan in motion to kidnap kids ?especially Jewish ones? to ransom for monies destined for Hayden Lake, Idaho where the Aryan Nation had its headquarters. I would like to think that had my parents been provided with this information, perhaps I would have been spared the next two and a half years.
Just consider the possible implications.
Nice :exclaim: From the bottom of any large organization looking up through the ranks, human greed and stupidity look a lot like a conspiracy.
--S. Gilbert
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I hate to revive an old thread, but do you, by any chance, know which staff this is, and possibly which family they worked in? (Either antigen or blownawayidaho?) I was a student while this staff member was probably there, so I'd really like to know who it was. This is the first I've ever heard of such a thing.
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That night after dinner my whole peer group was on Bans from kids Quest and lower. We were restricted to House and we were not allowed to play games, cards, or chess. I mention this because I was fast becoming a chess junky.
Instead, we were to smoosh with our older brothers and sisters and listen to their stories. When somebody told their story at RMA, they told a version according to a version deemed acceptable by the school. It was a process that you were made to repeat throughout the program. The first time I told my story (about why I got to RMA and what I could have expected had I not attended) it took two full nights. I was prolonging it as much as possible for two reasons. The first was that my telling of this story was to my first big sister. I wanted to spend as much time as possible with my head near her bosom, her playing gently with my hair, stopping me occasionally to tell me that I was glorifying, or to ask a question. The second was that, I noticed as I did what I was being told- telling my story, not breaking bans, working my work details, etc., the pressure was not as intense on me to freak out and cry in raps, and people yelled in my direction a little more infrequently. So, there I was resting in Michelle?s lap and hearing her detailed account of everything sexual that had EVER happened in her life, and some things which surely did not, that I wondered what was really going to happen tonight. What was a Propheet?
At last light Michelle and her peer group presented some ideas to ALL the kids to think about their Truth Propheets. They reminded the school that when we got out our new peer group would be part of the community and that we would really need for people to 'slow down'. They each got to talk for a few and some would start crying as they talked about the Truth Propheet and it?s place in the program. This thing about crying at this school was so weird. I knew they were going to pull out all the tricks tonight, but I still didn?t know how to identify the weaponry.
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When we entered the room, the windows had been blacked out with large cardboard slabs. There was no light except for the overheads that were turned as brightly as possible, and a little lamp that Stacy had on the end table next to her.
?The truth shall set you free? proclaimed a most prominently displayed sign when we entered the room with the seats set up as a horseshoe. Though it was summer time and often the dorms got so hot we would spray water on ourselves to cool off throughout the night, the room was cold. It was pleasant at first, coming out of the muggy darkness into a room with a magical feeling. The girls in out peer group carried stuffed animals, and some caring older sister of theirs had had the good sense to tell them to wear a few warm layers. Soon though, we were all shivering in our seats anyway.
Stacy opened her copy of The Prophet by Kahil Gibran. She read from the passage entitled On Joy and Sorrow. After the reading was done a couple of times with Barbara Striesand?s music bleeding into mix, the tormenting begun.
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My gosh you have a terrific memory. I forgot many details of the so called 'truth' propheet.
Just reading your post brings back a few memories of that place.
At that point in my stay, I just wanted out of that place. I hated everyone at the school.
Please keep writing.
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Oh, you're bringing me back... You know what I hated most about the Truth? Pretending I had a religious experience that generated a powerful epiphany in my life. But I still remember the 2 words I had to choose to represent my New Truth. Did they do the same at RMA?
It was all crap. By that time, nobody at CEDU would know the truth if it bit them in the ass.
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On 2005-09-27 07:27:00, blownawaytheidahoway wrote:
"When we entered the room, the windows had been blacked out with large cardboard slabs. There was no light except for the overheads that were turned as brightly as possible, and a little lamp that Stacy had on the end table next to her.
?The truth shall set you free? proclaimed a most prominently displayed sign when we entered the room with the seats set up as a horseshoe. Though it was summer time and often the dorms got so hot we would spray water on ourselves to cool off throughout the night, the room was cold. It was pleasant at first, coming out of the muggy darkness into a room with a magical feeling. The girls in out peer group carried stuffed animals, and some caring older sister of theirs had had the good sense to tell them to wear a few warm layers. Soon though, we were all shivering in our seats anyway.
Stacy opened her copy of The Prophet by Kahil Gibran. She read from the passage entitled On Joy and Sorrow. After the reading was done a couple of times with Barbara Striesand?s music bleeding into mix, the tormenting begun.
"
I remember I had to go through the Truth twice. The second time was when I was in Challenge. Who knows? Maybe I was in yours. Stacy ran my second one. (I think I was in Challenge in '88.)
Who was Michelle? I don't remember her. My memory's very fuzzy from that time, (I can barely remember everyone in my peer group, even.) What was her last name?
And you never answered my question, do you know who the staff member was who was the white supremacist and got fired?
And in response to the above question re: the two truths. We had one truth word, and one lie word. (I can't remember if it was called a "lie" word, though. It might have been called something else.) I can't even remember what my lie word was from my first truth. I went through it only about a week after I arrived at the school, which was freaky. I had no idea what the hell was going on, and had only been in like, two raps so far.
I remember when I saw Terry Gilliam's "Brazil" for the first time, and I saw on the statue "The Truth Will Set You Free" I laughed. I found it so appropriate that an anti-utopian society with an oppressive, inept, government would use that as their slogan.
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i won't write her last name.
my memory is ok but obviously a script of all the propheets and workshops would help jog memories. i am concerned that when I attempt to write about later and more intensive events that I will miss important parts and phases of these workshops. one can remember that the events fell into one another often without a visible breaker like a snack or nap.
as for the ruby ridge reference...I don't remember the book's title. Google it. Ruby Ridge was in the title. It was only one sentance about RMA really and I mentioned what it entailed. was the name of the person who worked at RMA ...I believe, however, if memory serves, they were not counselor but night watchmam. Not that that in itself is more excusable.
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Is this the same program that Lon Woodbury, of Struggling Teens once worked for? If not, I apologize but I seem to remember someone saying WOodbury worked for some program in Idaho before becoming an "educational consultant" and am wondering which program/school it was.
Second question I have is whether there have been any personal injuries or even deaths at this program?
Thanks, it is very interesting to hear about what goes on behind the closed doors of these institutions from the perspective of former residents.
Keep talking "out of group" ... this is the one sure way to expose THE TRUTH and promote wide-spread awareness and sensitivity to the issues at hand.
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YES, it was.
Yes. to the rest.
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Plenty of personal injuries...most notably the broken arm up at NWA that kicked off that riot.
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Lon Woodbury worked in admissions, I believe, at RMA. He was there when I was, I think.
The only death I know about was the kid who hanged himself. (Article here: http://www.teenliberty.org/RMA.htm (http://www.teenliberty.org/RMA.htm) )
And as they said before, the kid at NWA broke his arm. A kid when I was there broke his arm, too, when he was play-wrestling with Pat Stambusky, a staff member and CEDU alum. I don't really know if I would classify that as abuse, though. More just a stupid accident, with Pat being the stupid one. Another kid almost died because of medical negligence, because her thyroid condition developed into full blown diabetes, but the staff were completely ignorant of the fact, and just kept her down in the dorm, sick in bed, instead of taking her to the doctor like they should have. (blownaway, you were most likely there when that happened and may remember her.)
Strange, re: the Ruby Ridge issue. I don't even remember having night watchmen. That's how spotty my memory is. I remember the staff, and the maintenance guys, and the kitchen staff, but I don't remember night watchmen.
Speaking of kitchen staff, hey blownaway, remember Wendy, one of the kitchen ladies? Who could out-armwrestle anyone? (she was kind of like, the one in charge of the kitchen) She was cool. I didn't know her that well or talk to her that much, but in hindsight, I think she was a pretty cool person. I remember kids who talked a lot with the kitchen staff were looked down upon and made fun of by their peers, (because it was assumed that they didn't have "real" friends, as if the kitchen staff weren't adequate or appropriate friends to have) which I think in retrospect is totally classist and snobbish. You know, "don't socialize with the help." and such rubbish. How rude and elitist. What a rich kid attitude.
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Does anyone remember what that big cliff face was called that overlooked RMA/BCA? The one with the chutes and during the winter it looked like it would be so much fun to hike up there with a snowboard and just shred it up.
Sorry, really random question...somehow Ruby Ridge reminded me of it.
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Are you refering to Jodi Brown, the one who was diabetic? I remember that!
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CLIFTY
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On 2005-09-29 13:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Are you refering to Jodi Brown, the one who was diabetic? I remember that!"
Yes, that was Jodi. It seemed like she was stuck down in her dorm room for ages before they consented to get her to a doctor, didn't it? I felt really bad for her, and I remember it was one of the few times when I was there that I admitted to myself the school screwed up big time. I was pretty pissed off about it, even though Jodi and I weren't close. Especially because the school kinda dismissed the whole thing and didn't admit that they screwed up.
Man, if I were her parents, I would have been fucking livid.
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Well that certainly wouldn't be their style to admit they did something wrong.
My favorite thing was when they just sort of took your friends away. Half the time you'd never even see them again. They were always so sneaky about sending kids away, and they'd make sure they did it in a way so that their best friends wouldn't know until they were gone, giving them no chance to say goodbye. I understand not warning the kid you're gonna send them away (hey, you're getting shipped to the hospital, run while you have the chance). But couldn't you at least let the best friends go say goodbye while the kid's sitting in the van with the escorts?
They shipped my best friend off while I was in a workshop. Then they wouldn't let me write to him. I got a letter off on a home visit, but it was too late. He had been killed in a car crash.
Thanks CEDU.
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By the way, for old school CEDU peeps, workshop = propheet. They changed it in, I don't know...2000? At the same time as when they shortened the program.
What a nice thing to come out to after 12 hours of getting fucked in the mind.
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I heard that, that they changed them all to workshops. When I was there, we had propheets and workshops. The I&Me and the Summit were counted as workshops. Everything else was a propheet because of their "relevance" to the Khalil Gibran book.
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On my second visit, my parents actually brought me my own copy of the Khalil Gibran book. I've never wanted to kill people so badly in my life.
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On 2005-09-30 13:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"On my second visit, my parents actually brought me my own copy of the Khalil Gibran book. I've never wanted to kill people so badly in my life. "
That was one of the things on the "RMA recommended Christmas list." I remember younger students, their first year of Christmas, would always get the presents that RMA recommended, like compass keychains, and shit like that. Still, Christmas was a pretty amazing sight, when you came out and saw all the fucking presents for all the kids taking up most of the living room. I mean, I've never seen so many presents in all my life! (When I was at RMA we had close to 150-200 students.) That was pretty awesome, regardless of the context of how lousy the school was. Even if you got cheesy gifts, most of which were on the supply list the school was supposed to provide for you anyway, Christmas was pretty fucking sweet. Even the most jaded of kids got happy seeing all of those presents. And I always liked Santa's workshop in the weeks leading up to christmas, too, cause it meant I didn't have to go out and work. I could sit inside and make some crappy book cover out of birch bark, or do scrimshaw on a deer antler instead. :razz:
Face it, we had it pretty cushy at CEDU and RMA as far as the holidays were concerned. Big time. (Or at least it was like that when I was there.)
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Glad you had such a cushy experience. I was at Ascent for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I didn't even know what RMA was yet at that point.
We had to "earn" our Christmas, according to the staff. So from the second we got out of the teepees until lunch, we did absolutely nothing but saw wood. Then we made that lovely hike up to NWA and got some tuna melts for lunch. Then we sawed more wood. Around 5:00 or so, Bob Rogers rode into base camp in the bed of Jamie's Dodge Ram all decked out like Santa Clause with a big bag of gifts for the 20-something of us.
Most of it was just food from our parents, but we were only allowed to look at it. Then they packed it up and said we could have it when we graduated.
Never had the pleasure of enjoying a BCA christmas. By the time next Christmas rolled around, Christmas home visits were an automatic challenge+ privilege.
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On 2005-09-30 20:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Glad you had such a cushy experience. I was at Ascent for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I didn't even know what RMA was yet at that point.
We had to "earn" our Christmas, according to the staff. So from the second we got out of the teepees until lunch, we did absolutely nothing but saw wood. Then we made that lovely hike up to NWA and got some tuna melts for lunch. Then we sawed more wood. Around 5:00 or so, Bob Rogers rode into base camp in the bed of Jamie's Dodge Ram all decked out like Santa Clause with a big bag of gifts for the 20-something of us.
Most of it was just food from our parents, but we were only allowed to look at it. Then they packed it up and said we could have it when we graduated.
Never had the pleasure of enjoying a BCA christmas. By the time next Christmas rolled around, Christmas home visits were an automatic challenge+ privilege. "
Yeah, that sucks. Ascent didn't even exist when I was at RMA, so sorry. I think that's totally wrong what they did to you. I think the Ascent experience in general is totally wrong. I mean, the CEDU/RMA one was too, but we had it cushier than the Ascent folks.
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Move on, dude.
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How many times are idiots going to post that same post. "Get over it, move on". I have moved on, dumbass. I just like posting stories about the gay shit staff pulled. It's a good laugh. And it's entertaining to read other people's stories while I'm stuck in a 3 hour Humanities lecture. So eat a dick :wave:
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by writing, I am.
ps. what should I move on from, exactly? I mean wasn't it just a boarding school? or not?[ This Message was edited by: blownawaytheidahoway on 2005-12-26 10:52 ]
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Thanks for this site- it's good to hear that not all of the students who went to RMA got brainwashed. I attended in 1983-84. I wasn't there for long. By the time I left I was on ban from everyone. Literally. No one could talk to me. Except in rap where I was a favorite for the hot seat. LOL! (Good grief, the buzz-words are coming back.)
What boggles me is how easy it was for this school to bilk parents out of such huge sums of money. Before I'd part with that kind of dough, I might ask a few simple questions about the credentials of the people who staff the program. For a long time, I thought my parents were dupes; now I realize that they were simply desperate, and that their desperation prompted them to forgo critical thinking.
And yeah, I remember all the stuff about how if it werent' for RMA we'd all be dead in an urban alley, stuffed into trash cans after we OD'd on bad dope. They were able to pull that crap because so many of us tried to make like we were so 'street'. In fact, the liklihood of an upper middle class rebel ending up as a crack death were fairly remote. Duh!
I knew that something sinister was going on, and I knew it was a scam, I just didn't know or fully understand the mechanics behind it. Like all cults, there is a grain of truth in what the school promoted- that's how cults sell themselves; not with utter falsity, but with just enough truth to sound credible. And the truth is that I was in sore need of hardcore structure when I was a teenager. Many of these outdoor boot-camp style programs can offer that; it's when they get into the psycho-drama that things can become damaging and abusive. The 'farmhouse Gestalt' techniques for breaking someone down can be remarkably effective if used on consenting idividuals by trained and compassionate professionals. In the hands of amateurs and self-indulgent hippies, they become sadistic means of doing nothing more than inducing breakdown via nervous exhaustion.alienation and exhaustion is a different thing entirely. There is no excuse for ego-destruction. These are concentration camp techniques.
The one thing that seemed to underscore the entire philosophy behind RMA was a disdain for the individual and a deification of the collective. This kind of psycho-Marxism was the basis for their use of the brainwashing, and as Marxism leads to nihilism, so these techniques lead to psychological destruction. I am glad I got pulled out early.
Bridget
Tacoma, WA
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So, like I said, it wasn?t until October that I fully understood I was stuck. I endured another search and haircut. I was as mentally flimsy as I would ever be in my life. There were no possessions that I cared about. There were no person?s opinions that mattered to me and my emotions didn?t seem wild with extremes. I was also something else that I only glimpsed bits of in my life: pleased. I was truly proud of myself for completing survival. I was at peace with myself in a way that shown through to people. Um, I think I was truly exhausted too. During the next months whenever there was a spare compliment thrown my way at the end of a rap it usually included getting back to the ?place I was at? when I came back from the desert. I think a lot of this perspective on my new self that I acquired had to do with being calm; a calmness, not orderliness or organized calmness was with me for my week of work details. In fact, on my first real day back with the Voyageur family that next morning after my return, Caroline informed everyone that I was on bans from Quest down, while it was decided whether or not I would be dropped a peer group. I didn?t care. I really didn?t, because for a brief time there time was standing still. I was going from moment to moment in my zen like calm and almost nothing mattered except those moments. So, whether I was with my original peer group or not just didn?t matter as long as I could eat. At least, that?s how I remember it.
REDACTED
At some point during this mini- epoch, the great founder of our school, Mel Wasserman came for a visit. He walked right past me on my work details not even noting me sweating and sawing away. Me, my logs, my horse and my saw. Alone, and half starved I had been re captured by his place, I was dressed like a midget rodeo clown and covered with dust, I could hardly keep my eyes off of the gloss of him and the shiny Jaguar he had popped out of.
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LOL
http://cedualumni.com/modules.php?op=mo ... &forum=2&3 (http://cedualumni.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB_14&file=index&action=viewtopic&topic=76&forum=2&3)
I'm such an asshole!
-blownawaytheidahoway
L M MF A O!
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Actually, you are a COLOSSAL asshole!
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Ignore the asshole :roll: ...looking forward to reading more. I really like your writing. 8)
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So, I was given my first work detail. It was for talking to a girl I was on bans with. I had been put on bans with most of the girls in the school, even though I knew the names of perhaps 10. I didn?t really understand how I could be punished for talking and I said I didn?t want to be separated from the rest of the Voyageur family. When I was told that I had to do some thinking about what I wanted out of life. ?Whatever?, I responded. I was set apart from the wood corral the next morning. I sat in a booth all day doing nothing. I just said I wanted to speak with my parents in an unmonitored phone call. And since they were claiming not to be a ?lockup? that we were continually threatened with, I stated that I was within my rights. I was not far enough that I couldn?t hear the inane conversations and the occasional voice break into song. I didn?t understand how some people could be pretending to have a good time. I was pissed I was supposed to be on the work detail for a non- specific reason. Who should say that I can?t talk to whomever? What was this place, this shtick? Wasn?t I supposed to be granted certain ?inalienable? rights? I used to bring this up all the time. Ah. Yes, constitutional rights and the conversation I would try to have with people out of raps already got me into trouble. I didn?t believe it was legal what was happening to me, and I sat in the fucking booth. All day from 7am to 9pm. And no one came to talk to me except to ask me if I wanted to go out to my work detail yet. And no one looked at me. Incidentally, I was already used to this form of punishment from my long days at REDACTED. I thought I was being original, but the truth was that I had had no knowledge of a ?full-time? yet.
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It has been almost a year since I discovered this site. It has been about a year since I found that other people were as affected by the CEDU system. I found I was not alone. I went to my parents to chat with them about the recent discoveries and validation of the wierdness of the program. (god forbid I would use the term abuse)
They don't want to talk about it. They believe it was a mistake sending me there but that ends their responsibilty. They don't want to talk about all the doubts and confusion that were borne there. They can't admit that those years still touch me daily and reminders are plentiful in both sleeping and waking hours. It's a fight with them when I try to relate some of the finer points of damage inflicted on my self image. It's a fight when I mention that I still struggle with aspects of that time. Does someone have parents who have enough love for me too? I still want it, I still need it to thrive and feel positive, and they do still fail to give me shelter from the storm inside myself.
That is one thing I can never forgive about the program. IT DESTROYED MY CONFIDENCE. Oh, in the short term I thought I was a god. I mean, I was...I did the summit and graduated...why five years later did all seem so distant and faded. A prisoner who is released into the custody of a mental hospital would understand: THEY WERE BIG ISSUES, and they were not dealt with appropiately. Yes, it's over. It's been over since the schools were sold for the first time, and no other kids will go through as intense a program should they find themselves unlucky enough to be "sent away". And yet...the damage has been done. And the hurts are back toward the surface. Rehashing this RMA experience in therapy and conversation has only magnified what a BIG FUCKING DEAL IT WAS! Get out of my head DOUG, VICKI, STEVE, RANDY, CAROLINE, BRUCE, DAN, CARMEN, and the rest. Your yelling and faux love was POISON. I hope your new careers leave you as impotent in the workforce as you left many of us socially.
I have noticed a trend in regards to the posting on Fornits- in regards to Cedu people. It seems that people come and lurk around for a while reading the past post, seeing what has been said about the staff they were close with. Then they'll see something that makes them post.
Then they'll do a little more research on their own, come to one conclusion or another- namely "these people are a bunch of geniuses and why did I have to go through all that shit, and actually I don't remember anything but if it was a cult..."
curiosity killed the cult in this case, because if you look at the CEDU threads and see the personal progression, and the progression that lead to the slaying of CEDU, you'll well see that most of the time people come here read for a while, post some, find an old friend or two, and move on, healed a bit after bringing it back into their lives themselves by searching it all out on the world wide web.
There was a cutural shift going on a few years ago, and the TBS industry is still on the back boiler. Another critical information mass shift is due, be patient, if nothing else...sadly,
it's only a matter of time until another child dies in one of these places.