Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: rognteri on July 09, 2004, 06:30:00 PM
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Good Afternoon All,
I found this forum while looking for information on specialty schools for my step-son Joe. I have read many of the posts here and I am very truly sorry for what many of you have gone through in some of these places. I am also a survivor of abuse, not from a school, from my own father, and I know what it is like to try to get on with your life when you don't always want to. My question is this: have any of you heard of any schools that have been effective in educating teens who are emotionally fragile? My step son is a great person who has always had trouble in public school and has always managed to be in the middle of wherever trouble is. I am not looking to put him in a place that will brainwash him, or lock him in a closet, or tell him that he cannot communicate with his family, I am trying to find a place that will help him unlock all of the amazing potential that we believe is inside of him.
Your posts are not read lightly, and I have seen many that say that parents should just raise their children, or don't have them, and I tend to agree with that statement, but it is not always that simple.
I hope some of you can maybe just share some insight as to whether or not you know of any quality schools that are not affiliated with the disgusting, misleading, abusive programs that you have mentioned on this board.
Thank you for taking the time to read this... Teri
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You're going to need.... TO WORK!
There is no quick fix. Ignore all the programs.
If he needs therapy get it, but out patient. You're going to need to be WITH your child and work with them and be there for them. Sending them off doesn't help anything. Keeping someone trapped in something doens't help anything.
Haven't you read enough to realize this? Its going to take *WORK* on *YOUR* part too. Its part of being a parent.
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There is no magic place to send kids that will make them magical and work perfect and have their 'full potential' realized.
Its just marketing. You might as well go buy snake oil.
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Teri,
I'm in the same boat. We have done extensive therapy with my daughter, including hospitalizations etc. She has done things to harm herself. She is only 13 and is still reeling from her fathers death 2 years ago. She needs more help than I can find for her locally. I can't even find a therapist to see her often enough to help. I hired an educational consultant, but am definitely looking for a "soft" program. One that is family inclusive. One that I can see her at often and that we can talk to her frequently. She can be such a great kid and I know she'll be an incredible adult one day. Her grief and pain are more than I know how to help with though, and I am so afraid for her safety. Anyway, good luck with your search, keep posting...I'll try to follow where you are.
Stephanie
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You don't provide enough detail about your step son to understand what you mean by 'emotionally fragile' and what sort of 'trouble' he is getting into.
Step parents searching for boarding facilties is a hot button for many here, including myself. Why isn't his father conducting the search? Why is boarding being considered?
I know of no Therapeutic Facility that will help him "unlock all of the amazing potential that we believe is inside of him." That requires a respectful attitude toward the teen and support in the direction of their passion and goals- car mechanic or rocket scientist.
The lessor of the evils would be a traditional boarding school. One example is Putney School.
http://www.putney.com/ (http://www.putney.com/)
There are probably academic requirements which your step son may not meet, depending on his situation and the school's requirements.
Note: I am not recommending or endorseing Putney. I just happen to know a young woman who went there, not due to 'behavioral' issues, but because her parents were "too busy" to parent. Her father was wealthy and was sent to a boarding school (military) by his parents. Other than being away from her family, and all that entails, she enjoyed it. It appears to be a decent school, as boarding schools go. I think they sufficiently engage the teens so the loss of connection with their families is not so dramatic.
I know seven kids who were sent to religious, therapeutic, or wilderness programs; and none have happy endings. They were not offered the type of environment and opportunities that Putney offers. In fact, it was more like being in prison, behavior modification prison. None blossomed. All resented the experience. One died while at wilderness. Two were sexually molested. One (for certain) left with PTSD. One lost his joy and enthusiasm. One ran and was raped by a truck driver- which she said was less stressful than the facility!! Steer clear!!
If I were in your situation, I would try to assess what the underlying issue is.
Is he bored? Angry? With whom? Confused? Overwhelmed? Sad? Hopeless?
Whatever the issue, respect is always called for.
Ask him what his goals are for himself and how you can assist him in acheiving them.
Engage him in finding the 'solution'. It's disrespectful to make these decisions without their involvement. Period.
It might go something like this:
It's obvious you're not doing well in public school. I don't have a solution for you but would like to help you figure out how to meet your goals for yourself in terms of education. I will give you my full support in that direction.
Shall we start by looking at alternatives for finishing high school?
Responsive- great! Go with it and then support him fully.
Non-Responsive- time to deal with hopelessness and possibly confusion.
Put education aside for a short time and address those issues in a positive way.
Example:
What are your short term goals and plans for yourself? Long term?
What sort of lifestyle do you desire?
Let's run a budget so you can get an idea of how much money you'll need to earn in order to support that lifestyle. Do a good job with this- make it fun, letting him do as much of the research as possible to 'educate himself' about the realities of the cost of living.
Now, what are your passions? What work would you be excited to do everyday?
Don't know? Shall we go to a career counselor at the local community college? They have massive volumes of books with every job you can imagine. They can also help you identify your strongest attributes and help narrow the choices.
Determine the education required. And ask where/how he might like to receive that education.
This is not done as punishment. It is done to rekindle the fire inside him. To reinstill hope. To clear away some of the confusion and fear that most teens deal (or not) with. To let him know that your ONLY agenda is to help him further HIS goals. And if he has none, help him remember that he does have goals. They're just temporarily out of reach due to hopelessness or 'fill in the blank'.
And, your relationship may be so damaged that he won't trust you enough to engage in this way.
Then, I'd say it's time to really put education on the back burner and heal the relationship. Find a tutor to work with him. Take him to work with you. Hang out and do more listening than talking. Take a l-o-n-g educational vaction. If you find yourself lecturing (out of fear for his future) SHUT YOURSELF UP and listen. Listening is about the only thing you can do to foster genuine trust. If you were down and out would you want your friend or spouse to lecture and or threaten or banish you from their lives?
Treat him with the respect he deserves.
If his behaviors threaten his freedom- Take him to a teen prison. Let him see the realities of the world he may have to deal with if he makes the 'wrong' choices. This is not abusive, it is very important that teens be educated on reality- the police state they live in. There will most likely be no 'rehab' if the state were to gain custody. Only jail time. Does he understand what behaviors could cause the state to gain custody? How that would impact his life? Would he be okay with that? Would he like to avoid it? Does he know what a felony is, or a misdemenor? Or the difference between the two?
What you should know is that many, if not most, kids have 'trouble' with public schools. I think I read that only 25% (or less) 'do well'. The average teen has at least 3 encounters with 'the law' before they're 18. If you're feeling stressed and worried, look for the facts to help dispell your exaggerated fears. He will not open up to you if he senses you have an agenda that is motivated by fear. Consider yourself in service to his education about living in this society.
I'm wondering why you feel like you need to send him away. There's always:
Homeschooling (with the aid of a tutor if necessary), Alternative High Schools, Trade Schools, etc. Education is ALWAYS available, no matter the age. Let go of how it should look or happen.
For my own son, who returned home from a military academy with PTSD, I found a wonderful alternative high school (after he'd been kicked out of public school for smoking pot).
http://www.griffinschool.org/ (http://www.griffinschool.org/)
This school was perfect for him. A stimulating refuge from the mundane, sterile environment of public school. (Don't freak out at some of the pictures of the kids- they were some of the most intelligent, creative, independent thinking teens I'd ever encountered- just square pegs that couldn't be forced into the round holes in public school. And yes, the majority smoked pot.) Example: One 16 year old female had her own apartment, worked to support herself and pay her adjusted tuition.
He most appreciated that the teachers didn't patronize. They genuinely cared, and teens/kids know the difference. There was lively, passionate debate daily. Subject were taught with passion and from many perspectives. His History teacher even used Howard Zinn's "The People's History of the US" for a text. No one's voice was squashed. Teachers went by first names. There were no 'disciplinary punishments'. If a student was not doing well a meeting was called to discuss what was going on for them, to re-examine their stated educational goals and the commitment they had made to themselves and the school, and to brainstorm how teachers and parents could support them in achieving THEIR goals. The adults should have NO goals for the teen that s/he did not participate in creating.
Point being, there are usually more resources locally than one can imagine. Shift the direction of you search. Shift your thinking about your step son. Imagine if you can, the fear, confusion, uncertainty that teens attempt to deal with on their own. Particularly those who don't do well in the public system.
Parents should make a vow to their children when they're born, much like, and with all the sincerity that one might make a marriage vow. If not publically, then privately. In sickness and in health, in ease and in distress, in confusion and in clarity, in anger and in joy, (I could go on); I will love, honor, respect, and cherish you til death do us part.... It should be read frequently.
Can you, as a step make that kind of commitment to him? Can his father? Someone should. And it will not be a boarding facilty, even the best, high-dollar traditional school.
Whatever happens with your step son, I hope someone along his path helps him master his environment and make it work for him, instead of against him.
That's my two cents worth, for what it's worth.
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That was me. Forgot to sign in.
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Their is no quick fix. Broken homes have devastating effects on the children. Both of the moms have described teens who are dealing with much more than they can handle emotionally. One is dealing with the death of a father the other with a split family. Unfortunately most of the children in residential treatment are in the same boat. If parents are going to shatter their family they need to be ready to deal with the aftermath. Their is no easy fix. You can't divorse your own child but you can throw them away in a residential facility. This is the brutal truth. You are too selfish to admit it - but you are the problem. Your selfishness and lack of concern for your offspring is the problem. These people who throw their marriages away are often quick to toss out the baby with the bathwater.
You need to spend time with your child. LOTS OF TIME. It's not conveinent and it's not going to make you feel good - it's going to be hard. As a parent of several children - I can honestly say I did everything I could do within my capacity. I also threw my child to the wolves who want nothing more than money. I wasn't aware of this at the time. After my child was abused for a month I saw the light and removed my child. It wasn't easy - but I took the time to go to the necessary meetings and therapy sessions. I monitiored her friends and activities and set strict curfews.
You can let your child know what the alternative is like. I know many people who are in similar situations and all have had failed marriages and relationships with the other parent of this child. Some of the children are involved in gangs, drugs, sex. It's not easy and there is no quick fix. Unfortunately there are few if any programs that are not abusive. They are abusive because they are for the children with serious problems. Perhaps some of these children need this.
One of my friends has a son who is in a gang, dealing drugs, staying out until 5 am. He's much bigger than her and has lashed out physically. She can not control him and does not know what to do. He may loose his life on the streets. He refuses to go to school. This may be the type of kid that needs residential therapy. If not, he may end up in jail or dead.
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Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to answer me, I really appreciate it. It appears that we have A LOT to think about. I do not ever want to do anything to hurt him, I love him as though he were my own. Maybe we do need to change the direction of our search.
I thank you again...
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On 2004-07-09 23:03:00, rognteri wrote:
"Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to answer me, I really appreciate it. It appears that we have A LOT to think about. I do not ever want to do anything to hurt him, I love him as though he were my own. Maybe we do need to change the direction of our search.
I thank you again..."
To the extent that your child's problems are more than you think you can handle, consider a therapist for yourself.
Not that there necessarily has to be anything wrong with you, I'm just suggesting this because *most* of the problems therapists treat are "problems in living"---things that are hard to cope with, that you're not sure how to handle or even if you can.
The truth is that you may not, either of you, be able to "save" your child.
There is no 100% guarantee on any strategy you can choose.
So, painful as that is to accept, then you've got to pick that strategy that has the *best* odds for your kid.
From what I've seen, staying in the home has the best odds for the kid, even though the ride may be rough.
For the parent with the grieving daughter, if there's not a therapy group in your area, I'd recommend looking for a good online support group for grief. Look at Yahoo groups---they have a group for everything.
For the parent with the emotionally fragile son, I like the advice about helping him figure out what he wants and supporting him in getting there, including alternatives to public school. And if you can't find him the therapy he needs locally, again, I've found the Yahoo groups to be great.
Timoclea
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I was very successful in a "program", and grateful that my parents loved me enough to find me help. I can admit to having issues as a teen I needed help with (liking it or not), and have a great, healthy mentality today.
Though some may have had bad experiences at certain treatment centers, I can assure you that not ALL of them are that way.
Good luck in helping your son.
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On 2004-07-10 09:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
" I was very successful in a "program", and grateful that my parents loved me enough to find me help. I can admit to having issues as a teen I needed help with (liking it or not), and have a great, healthy mentality today.
Though some may have had bad experiences at certain treatment centers, I can assure you that not ALL of them are that way.
Good luck in helping your son."
There is such a thing as good residential treatment, and there are conditions that properly require residential treatment--even involuntary commitment.
However, there's also a lot of bad treatment out there, and paying a lot is no guarantee.
Unfortunately, a good review from a former patient is also not a guarantee. Some patients internalize program definitions of things as "not abuse" that are very abusive according to the community standards of society at large. Some patients don't change that position until they end up in a psychiatrist's or psychologist's office years later suffering from PTSD.
Some patients claim the residential care they received was good, high quality care because it *was*.
The problem is, how do you tell?
As readers on Fornits, we can't tell if you were a kid who needed quality residential care and got it, or you were a kid who got low quality abusive "care" and just haven't had the PTSD kick in yet.
*One* way we can try to sort out patients who got quality care from patients who may not have is to ask how much time has elapsed.
A patient who's been out for five years or more who says he got quality care is much less likely to have actually been abused than a patient who's only been out a few months.
How long have you been out?
If it's less than five years, I'm not saying that you didn't get quality care, I'm just saying it's harder for the rest of us reading to be confident that you did.
If it's been five years or more, and the place you got care is still in operation, please post the name. If a parent is bound and determined to place their teen in a TBS, I'm sure we'd *all* prefer they choose one with a *good* reputation among its former patients instead of one with a lousy one.
Timoclea
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Where are these "five" year statistics?
I agree that the first few months of transitioning back at home is no measure. After those first, around 4-6 months, it is a pretty good indicator of how the whole family will choose to apply what they've learned. That's assuming that the program had the parents doing their own work too. If the parents are enabling their child once home, it is so easy for them to fall back and stay there without a lot of internal and external commitment to help each other. Expecting your kid to come home and be perfect is unrealistic. It's how you choose to take action and educate yourself on what to look for. Being a parent is a 24/7 job, even if your kid is in treatment.
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On 2004-07-10 15:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2004-07-10 09:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Unfortunately, a good review from a former patient is also not a guarantee. Some patients internalize program definitions of things as "not abuse" that are very abusive according to the community standards of society at large. Some patients don't change that position until they end up in a psychiatrist's or psychologist's office years later suffering from PTSD.
Some patients claim the residential care they received was good, high quality care because it *was*.
The problem is, how do you tell?
As readers on Fornits, we can't tell if you were a kid who needed quality residential care and got it, or you were a kid who got low quality abusive "care" and just haven't had the PTSD kick in yet.
*One* way we can try to sort out patients who got quality care from patients who may not have is to ask how much time has elapsed.
A patient who's been out for five years or more who says he got quality care is much less likely to have actually been abused than a patient who's only been out a few months.
How long have you been out?
If it's less than five years, I'm not saying that you didn't get quality care, I'm just saying it's harder for the rest of us reading to be confident that you did.
If it's been five years or more, and the place you got care is still in operation, please post the name. If a parent is bound and determined to place their teen in a TBS, I'm sure we'd *all* prefer they choose one with a *good* reputation among its former patients instead of one with a lousy one.
Timoclea"
Well, I'm the earlier poster --- and I think I "qualify" - as I went through successful treatment 20 years ago! 1983/1984.
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Well, good.
Is the place you went still in business?
What was its name?
One of the reasons for talking about TBS's on the internet is to separate out quality care from bad care.
Anything you'd like to share on what your treatment did *right* would be a breath of fresh air.
As I've said (a lot) before, there are some conditions that *require* residential treatment.
For goodness sakes, as least let it be *good* treatment!
So anyway, welcome, and good to hear from you.
Timoclea
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The time thing is not always the best indicator. I know of a man who went through an abusive treatment center (part of the CEDU network) when he was 15. He is now in his 40's, and still tells anyone willing to listen about what a wonderful experience he had had there and how much he had "grown". Some people never get out of the program.
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On 2004-07-11 14:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The time thing is not always the best indicator. I know of a man who went through an abusive treatment center (part of the CEDU network) when he was 15. He is now in his 40's, and still tells anyone willing to listen about what a wonderful experience he had had there and how much he had "grown". Some people never get out of the program. "
It's not perfect, but it is one way of having a little more confidence about whether someone is going to pop up with PTSD or not.
Not all residential treatment is bad.
On the other hand, not everybody who joins the Scientologists, for example, leaves. I'm sure Tom Cruise's and John Travolta's experiences with Scientology have been pretty good. Which doesn't help the ordinary schmuck working as a deck hand in the Scientology navy.
Time elapsed since leaving is one of the questions that acts as a filter to sort out good residential treatment from "we don't know"---but you're right, it's not perfect.
On the other hand, just because your friend in his 40's "never got out of the Program" doesn't mean this guy/gal didn't get good residential treatment.
For all we know, the poster could be Barbra Streisand or Joe Schmoe the precocious 12 year old from Peoria. Or could be just who he/she says he/she is.
But if the guy's Program is still in operation and doesn't have a whole pile of negative reviews from former patients, and a child has something that *needs* residential treatment, I'd rather have the parents send their kid *there* than Provo Canyon or Tranquility Bay or Casa.
I'd rather a local hospital for residential care, but where some people live, that's just not an option. My next preference would be for the parents to move in proximity to the care so they can visit frequently. But some people can't do that, either.
I *know* there are way more kids in residential treatment than need to be there.
But saying "all residential treatment is bad" has the same credibility problems as "all the survivor kids are lying" does. And even among the substandard treatment, there's bad and worse.
What I'm tentatively trying to do is draw fine distinctions, in the hope that parents who have other choices than residential care decide that the bad care is pervasive enough not to take the risk---which I believe is absolutely true---and in the hope that parents whose kids really need residential care get the best care possible, and get their kids back home from it as soon as possible.
Timoclea
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Tell me, why is a locked-in 'residential treatment' EVER necessary?
Being in a hospital for a sickness or a closed ward to physically prevent you from killing yourself or hurting someone aside, what REQUIRES it?
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On 2004-07-11 18:26:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"Tell me, why is a locked-in 'residential treatment' EVER necessary?
Being in a hospital for a sickness or a closed ward to physically prevent you from killing yourself or hurting someone aside, what REQUIRES it?"
That *is* what requires a locked ward. A patient that is an imminent danger to himself or others who either needs to be stabilized or *cannot* be stabilized.
Being psychotic tends to vastly increase a patient's risk for violence to others. Some kinds of depression vastly increase a patient's risk for violence towards himself.
Some of these patients are "good medication responders," which means if you can get them on the right dose of the right medications, you can handle their problems through outpatient care and following their condition on a maintenance dose of their meds. (I fall in that category.)
Of the good medication responders, some accept that they have a major mental illness and want to be sane and have few enough side-effects that they follow doctor's orders and take their medications (I fall in that category.)
Then you have people who, as a result of their illness and their side effects and the stigma associated with mental illness don't accept or believe that they're mentally ill, when they are, and won't take their medication.
Those folks tend to get rehospitalized over and over again, stabilized on their medication, and released. Some states now have something called "outpatient commitment" which means that if they go off their meds their family and police don't have to wait for the danger to become imminent to take them back to the hospital and get them back on their meds. The choice (and they do have a choice) is take the meds or stay in the hospital.
The folks who aren't medication responders don't have a choice. As long as they're dangerous, they have to stay hospitalized.
Then you have people whose danger to themselves or others is from severe cognitive impairment rather than mental illness. Everything from severe autism to severe mental retardation.
Frequently those folks can stay home, if their families have the resources, or be placed in an unlocked group home.
Sometimes, the patient is so not-competent and so prone to wander, and prone to sudden outbursts of anger and violence, that they have to be kept in a locked ward for their own or others' safety.
Some Alzheimers patients are so prone to wander and so far gone that they have to be kept in a locked ward too keep them from wandering off and getting hurt.
*Some* drug abuse problems have such an immediate, high risk of death or injury to self or others (heroine addiction, huffing, PCP, alcoholism at the DT stage), that in the *very short term* a locked ward is justified, but *only* if the danger is imminent and *only* until the patient is stabilized. More than three weeks or so at the absolute outside would be excessive---I'm just talking the immediate stabilization of the patient, not the whole course of substance abuse treatment.
And, of course, actual criminal behavior justifies locking someone up----but only after a fair trial with full due process of law.
And, of course, parents are no more qualified to decide if a particular teen patient needs a locked ward than they are to diagnose the kid and prescribe medication and dosages. Nobody of any age should be involuntarily committed just on the say-so of a relative. There's just too much room for incompetence and unconscionable conflicts of interest.
Timoclea
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Something to note about the 5-year guideline: a facility can change significantly, for better or for worse, within five years. (For example, in an 18-month program, that is 3 generations of residents, which allows a lot of change.) I would tend to trust five years of pretty positive history a lot more than a great experience five years ago.
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What I'd tend to trust, if I just *had* to, would be five year later positive reviews by former patients *plus* the lack of piles and piles of reports of abuse.
Yes, a facility can change a lot in five years. One thing to look at is what company owns the facility, has it changed ownership, and has it changed management, and what's the track record of its owners, administrators, staffers.
Family members *definitely* need to do their homework and be very informed consumers if they have a close relative that needs residential care.
And they need to understand the risks of bad care, that there is a lot of bad care out there, and that those risks mean that if it's at all possible to deal with their problems and their kid's problems in an outpatient setting---even if it's very difficult---that outpatient care is very probably in the best interests of the patient.
Timoclea