Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Elan School => Topic started by: O.U.2 on May 10, 2004, 04:10:00 PM
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The average tuition while i was there was about 40,000 a year per kid. Now times that by 50 kids and you get 2,000,000. Now times that by 3 houses
and thats 6,000,000 a year.
I really dont know about the other house but E-8 was shitty. I dont know of any one having a good night's sleep on our crappy WWII bunkbeds, or even a good meal, cause of lack of silverware, lack of food, or lack of toppings to cover up the taste of the food. Also, all the houses go outside every weekend there was never any equipment that was any good to use like a simple basketball. they always relied on what parents sent you or kids that graduated or signed out left behind.
School was another joke no one and i repeat no one got a good education there because of lack of teachers, lack of books, even lack of desks to sit in and lack of knowledge. I had to help the spanish teacher out with her spanish so she could teach it right. Everynight they yelled school i felt like it was kindergarden again." OK now i hope everyone brought there coloring books today"
Few things from a huge list of FAQ!!!
So Show Me The Money :exclaim: :exclaim: :exclaim:
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when i was in elan, i ran some estimates, nothing proffesional, but elan is obviously making shitloads of profit off of what they do.
(the bunkbeds were not WWII, but 1960's National Guard... right....) even assuming
A) they pay their teachers anything close to a P.S. salary,
B) don't pay heavily for the land, b/c it's a 'school',
C) skimp on the food and order thru low-grade food service companies
D) this could go on ad nauseum, but to answer your question about where the money is? Sherin Terrys new BMW 850i. nuf said
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One more thing...
Living in Maine is dirt cheap. That's an even bigger killer profit.
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Don't forget Marty's new horse and spear!!!
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Don't forget Marty's new horse and spear!!! LLOllllllllllllllllllll
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How much do directors and asst. directors make?
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Clare Woodman had a Jaguar when I was there.
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yeah, sherin's got a 850i, claire's got a jag, tania's got a denali, and marty's got a horse, spear, and wigwam... hi-yuh-hi-yuh-hi-ya!
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so what are you gonna do about it, besides bitch and whine?
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patience grasshopper, patience.
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I guess Claire is Mooving On UP!!! From a convertible BMW to a Jaguar what a Elanified life!!!! ::rocker::
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I will feel bad for Clare if Elan closes. I know she cared, although the care was misguided at times. I don't like some people at Elan, but I liked Clare, though she gave out WAY too many LEs.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
If I was an Elan staff now, I would go back to school to get credentialed, if I wasn't already. The place seems to be leaking cash like crazy and I'd want to be prepared when I wound up unemployed. Other places won't hire you because you can run a general meeting!
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Yeah, Pete i agree with you that Clare does care. Cares about making money!!! If shes really there because she cares about kids, why is she a director at Elan, why is she a director at a place that people describe as horrific, why is she a director with so many corupt people under her, why in all the years she worked there things have maneged to stay fucked.
OH! Let me guess its not her fault that the people who work for her do bad things and treat the kids like shit, right. I mean what can she do she is only the director she's not GOD.
Also, I bet she is scared. Scared of having to give up that fucking JAG.
Yes, I agree that there are some staff that care and are or were there to really help us but when you get to a position like Asst.Dir. or Director
and things are still the same or you start to be a hypocrite...Then like the saying goes if one person tells you forget about it, if two tell you think about it, but if three people tell you then nigga it's a fucking HORSE.
And if Clare's reading this HI CLARE :exclaim: :wave:
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great point there barrel ass, no really, great point man :nworthy:
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I have had former staff confide to me how bad it is to work at Elan.
I agree that Clare is responsible for some messed-up shit. But compared to Tania Merette, she's a fucking angel.
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Hey, Pete if we were back at elan 8 I'd have to book you for rationalizing :exclaim: :exclaim:
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Book me and watch me react, Oliver!
But seriously, it's just a difference of opinion. Clare was nice to me, for the most part, except when she blew my home visit. I saw the good in her. Then again, I behaved myself in Elan and most of the staff were nice to me there. THAT'S what got to me for so many years after. I was Elan's poster child and when push came to shove, they still let me down. But I'm over it now. It took years.
Few people are purely evil. Although at Elan there are a few exceptions to this rule.
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In my opinion...
Which staff members/ director were mean?
Peter Rowe
Jen Emerson
Deb (at times)
Marty (female staff, overweight, kinda masculine)
Tracy Mendenites
Which ones were nice?
Tania Merrete
Kim
Dave Mc'Vetty
Jenn Hussman
Missy
Jamol
Kate Hawkins
Serena
Julie
There were more good than bad people working at that place, the problem is with their therapeutic methods and the system itself. The cruelty comes from a small group of people but it spreads just like a disease. As a result, the whole system gets infected and the ones with good intentions get influenced by them. It's like an ongoing cycle.
It's because of the cruel ones that some people have become seriously traumatized. The staff members/ directors of Elan have too much power over other people's lives, they can decide wether they wanna help saving them or help ruining them. Once they no longer have power over us, we need to get over some traumas and NOT let them ruin our lives. On the other hand, we should remember the lessons that we did learn and not make the same mistakes twice. Well, it ain't that easy getting over the traumas, sometimes I think I've fully recovered, sometimes the memories come back to me... either consciently, or subconsciently (in the form of dreams, for example). They still bother me.
Let's hear from other people, which ones did you think were nice and which ones did you think were cruel... and why?
Peace!
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Hey I really liked Jeff Missy Kathy Marty Jim and Keri. I was super close with Bob. When he went to 7 I was so upset. I could not stand Terri most of the time. Was staff Tracey a student at one point?
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On 2004-05-11 21:05:00, Marina wrote:
"In my opinion...
Which staff members/ director were mean?
Peter Rowe
Jen Emerson
Deb (at times)
Marty (female staff, overweight, kinda masculine)
Tracy Mendenites
Which ones were nice?
Tania Merrete
Kim
Dave Mc'Vetty
Jenn Hussman
Missy
Jamol
Kate Hawkins
Serena
Julie
There were more good than bad people working at that place, the problem is with their therapeutic methods and the system itself. The cruelty comes from a small group of people but it spreads just like a disease. As a result, the whole system gets infected and the ones with good intentions get influenced by them. It's like an ongoing cycle.
It's because of the cruel ones that some people have become seriously traumatized. The staff members/ directors of Elan have too much power over other people's lives, they can decide wether they wanna help saving them or help ruining them. Once they no longer have power over us, we need to get over some traumas and NOT let them ruin our lives. On the other hand, we should remember the lessons that we did learn and not make the same mistakes twice. Well, it ain't that easy getting over the traumas, sometimes I think I've fully recovered, sometimes the memories come back to me... either consciently, or subconsciently (in the form of dreams, for example). They still bother me.
Let's hear from other people, which ones did you think were nice and which ones did you think were cruel... and why?
Peace!
"
Yeah, there are more "good" staff than bad ,but the problem is who's in charge. Another problem that i see is that when the "good" staff gets a position that they can do something HYPOCRISY shows its ugly head. I personaly hated with a passion every motherfucking staff that worked there.
If your a good person and you get a job and you see shit thats not right do you quit and try to do something about it or do you let shit happen and enforce it on top of it?
What do you think Elan answer is :question: :question:
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In my opinion (and only mine):
Best staff:
Marian Carney
Good staff:
Kate Hawkins
Marc Rosenberg (good, but misguided at times -- yes, I know '70s kids have different recollections)
Clare Woodman (same as above)
Jim Collins
Terri Volk (was really nice to me)
Drew Hibbard (Drew was the man)
Dave McVety
Jeff Gottlieb (from what I remember)
Alan Something (can't remember his last name)
This woman Ellen who moved on to Sweetzer residential
Kathy Scherburne (except when she really messed up one night handling Chrysta Albanesi -- too harsh)
Bob Oldham (nice guy)
This Kim woman from 7 who was fucking hysterical
Kary New -- Told me it wasn't my fault when two people split when I was pulling (even though it probably was).
Missy (even though she sent me a not-so nice email a couple years ago).
Glen the Night Guard (we used to listen to the Jerky Boys and Black Sabbath).
John the cook
OK staff:
Paul Burrell (just didn't belong at Elan)
Deana Zorzi (used to flirt with students -- that can be interpreted as good or bad!)
Lousy staff:
Jen Emerson (too cold)
Jen P. (dumb and ignorant -- AIRHEAD actually)
Jenn Cushman (seduced a couple students -- plus she was stupid)
Tania Merette (EVIL!)
Peter Rowe (pig)
Marty Kruglik (see previous posts)
Tracy Mendonides (even though I was a student with her she tried to alienate my friends from me after Elan, plus she just sucks).
This idiot night guard whose name I can't remember.
That stupid switchboard operator Sue -- remember her?
Like Marina, I agree that it wasn't so much the staff themselves as the philosophy that was twisted. The original intention of concept was, on the whole, good. But put it in the hands of a amateur and all hell will break loose. To be honest, I think there were more asshole students than staff (and not just shotdown students either). Many students in positions of leadership were just useless and unhelpful, plus they were far more hurtful and insensitive than most staff. Then again, they were stupid kids.
I certainly will laugh in the face of any 16-year-old self-proclaimed psychiatrist with a medical degree from a Cracker Jack box telling me I don't need meds.
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On 2004-05-12 07:36:00, O.U.2 wrote:
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On 2004-05-11 21:05:00, Marina wrote:
"In my opinion...
Which staff members/ director were mean?
Peter Rowe
Jen Emerson
Deb (at times)
Marty (female staff, overweight, kinda masculine)
Tracy Mendenites
Which ones were nice?
Tania Merrete
Kim
Dave Mc'Vetty
Jenn Hussman
Missy
Jamol
Kate Hawkins
Serena
Julie
There were more good than bad people working at that place, the problem is with their therapeutic methods and the system itself. The cruelty comes from a small group of people but it spreads just like a disease. As a result, the whole system gets infected and the ones with good intentions get influenced by them. It's like an ongoing cycle.
It's because of the cruel ones that some people have become seriously traumatized. The staff members/ directors of Elan have too much power over other people's lives, they can decide wether they wanna help saving them or help ruining them. Once they no longer have power over us, we need to get over some traumas and NOT let them ruin our lives. On the other hand, we should remember the lessons that we did learn and not make the same mistakes twice. Well, it ain't that easy getting over the traumas, sometimes I think I've fully recovered, sometimes the memories come back to me... either consciently, or subconsciently (in the form of dreams, for example). They still bother me.
Let's hear from other people, which ones did you think were nice and which ones did you think were cruel... and why?
Peace!
"
Yeah, there are more "good" staff than bad ,but the problem is who's in charge. Another problem that i see is that when the "good" staff gets a position that they can do something HYPOCRISY shows its ugly head. I personaly hated with a passion every motherfucking staff that worked there.
If your a good person and you get a job and you see shit thats not right do you quit and try to do something about it or do you let shit happen and enforce it on top of it?
What do you think Elan answer is :question: :question:
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Actually Elan seems to have quite a high turnover rate these days. There are many ex-staff members who probably followed your advice, once they got a better job.
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Yes, Tracy was a student at 7 at one point and as far as I've been told, she was a bitch back then too. She was like Peter's favourite so she used to get "extra privileges". When she returned as a staff member, she was still a very cruel hypocritical bitch.
Bob was director at 7 when I was a new resident. He was so so funny, man. When he was running my crew, he was really supportive. However, he's lost much respect when he was cruel to one of my friends. He's left shortly after that.
I agree with you that If I was a staff member, I'd quitt as soon as I'd realize how they treated the students (which is probably in my first day there). I don't know these people's motives but I did see some people putting their hearts into helping people, so maybe they have a different view. I preffer not to judge the ones who've helped me, since they've been able to make a difference in my life. Well, If it wasn't for them, Elan would have sucked even more.
Peace!
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notice how the movie dreamcatcher is about aliens, and it takes place deep in maines woods.. i wonder if tania is a freakin alien... pete what do u think there sizzlenuts??????????
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Well, maybe an alien from a planet near the sun. Only a fiery hot planet could produce a Gigundobitch like that.
That's right there, fruitcake.
"You buy this fuckin' car or I'll break ya fuckin' head!"
-- Frank Rizzo
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The only two staff members that kept it real was Jim Collins and Jamal Pena. They saw that every student was different and needed attention in certain areas, and didnt need to yell to get people to listen(i.e. Marc Rosenburg)
I think that Elan diagnoses everyone with the same problem and takes care of all problems the same way...."That'll be $40,000 please" "What no more money, oh yeah your son/daughter is cured graduation next week."
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I met Jamal once when I met the house in Boston in '97, before I got really angry with Elan. He seemed nice.
You are right, Oliver, there is too much of a one-treatment-for-all philosophy. By the time I left, I thought that if I heard one more VR, I was going to be sick to my stomach.
The day I left (and I remember this very well), I flew to New York. Since my dad had no room in his apartment, he put me up in a hotel in Chinatown. That night, I remember sinking into a tub, taking a hot bath and thinking to myself, "It's over. I'm really out." That was one of the best days of my life.
Then Marty Kruglik came into the bathroom going "hi-yuh hi-yuh" and ruined it for me.
Just kidding.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Moore on 2004-05-12 13:40 ]
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It was different for me, I just felt like I was on a home visit. The graduation didn't feel real to me... It took me months until it hit me that my Elan experience was over and I actually made it to the end. You know the feeling of relief that you had when you left? It took me forever to actually feel it.
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I wasn't signed in, my bad!
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When i got home after Elan I would constanly ask my parents if i could have things. Like if there was something in the fridge i would ask or as i was about to go ask i would think to myself "YO, why the fuck am i asking the shit is in my house, my fridge, and its my food!! It took me months to get over that.
Oh yeah FUCK ELAN :exclaim: :exclaim:
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There was this cool black dude that was a marine that worked at seven for a few months (he was bald?) but he got fired cuz he told a girl she could live wit him if she ever signed out.
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On 2004-05-12 10:34:00, Peter Moore wrote:
"I met Jamal once when I met the house in Boston in '97, before I got really angry with Elan. He seemed nice.
You are right, Oliver, there is too much of a one-treatment-for-all philosophy. By the time I left, I thought that if I heard one more VR, I was going to be sick to my stomach.
The day I left (and I remember this very well), I flew to New York. Since my dad had no room in his apartment, he put me up in a hotel in Chinatown. That night, I remember sinking into a tub, taking a hot bath and thinking to myself, "It's over. I'm really out." That was one of the best days of my life.
Then Marty Kruglik came into the bathroom going "hi-yuh hi-yuh" and ruined it for me.
Just kidding.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Moore on 2004-05-12 13:40 ]"
LOL PETER
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I read on this forum, Clare drives this, Tania drives that. First of all the cost of living in Maine is so damn cheap who couldn't afford a Jag?
If I were to sell my house I could buy even a bigger house and land for what I pay where I am at.
When I was 18-20 years old a payment for a new vehicle that was over $200.00 a month for me was very intimidtaing. Shit now theses days I have no fears or limits of payment plans.
They probably pay next to nothing in insurance in Maine and their property taxes are most likely very very very cheap.
I pay $22,000.00 a year just for property tax, that is better then what I was paying last year considering the neighborhood I reside in. All other houses on my block are paying more close to $25k a year.
Bought my house in 96, after 7 years the inflation went up and the house was appraised for $300,000.000 more then what we paid, now It is even worth much more due to great real estate sales in my state.
I have a huge house, somewhere around 4500-5500 square ft, I am not really sure, the point is if I sold it and moved to Maine that house would cost alot less. I'm thinking $300,000.00 ballpark figure in Maine?
No offense to the finacially challenged people that may read this board, but if you were to move to Maine I dont think it would be so hard for you to get behind a wheel of any of those mentioned automobiles.
Even I could get behind the wheel of one of those cars back in the time when my business was just getting wet. Its all about the cost of living. Joe Ricci was a very wealthy man, I wonder how wealthy he would've been in my neck of the woods?
I think he would be living in a $500,000.00 home with less toys.
The cost of living is so cheap up there you could take a $45k person form my state and move them to Maine and they would be considered semi loaded.
Other places of low cost living are GA and FL, your dollar goes alot further there as well.[ This Message was edited by: Marty Douchebag Kruglik on 2004-05-13 06:22 ]
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What is your neck of the woods Douchebag? The fucking woods.
Look at me my business is really wet!!!!!
I have a 45000-55000 sq ft Tee-pee and it only cost me two Tonto's and a War Chief.
W G A F
h i u
o v c
e k
s
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This douchebag sounds like a nazi in injuns clothing
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oh yeah? yeah? what bi-otch? Pete Rowe drives a Taurus!
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I'm not sure it's Nazi. I'm getting along with this guy. If it is Nazi, well then he's being nicer.
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I think that Elan diagnoses everyone with the same problem and takes care of all problems the same way...."That'll be $40,000 please" "What no more money, oh yeah your son/daughter is cured graduation next week."
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I agree, I remember someone that I was in the house with who had a drug problem. Then I ran into him years later, and he was in NA and getting his shit together. Students with drug and alcohol programs were especially neglected, and whether they signed out or graduated, almost all of them went back to the same shit after leaving, and the only people not fucking up somehow found their way to AA or NA. I remember Marc Rosenberg telling this girl named Claire G. that she could go back to drinking in moderation when she had a really heavy drinking problem before she came there. I had never seen the girl drink, but I was pretty sure that she couldn't go back to social drinking just from sitting in groups with her, because many of my friends have stories just like hers, even right down to the same ethnic heritage. Elan staff are so stupid sometimes, they think they know everything about everyone when each person is different.
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shit i remembr jamal, i really dug him, he was a drummer and tried to get the staff at e7 to let me have some time on the drums. that guy use to be a crack head, and was able to bring himself up out of that shit.. kudos to him, and jamal if ur out there, the pimply jewish kid, from elan 7 circa 95, says YO!
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Well said Grasshopper ::bangin:: Hit them were it hurts.
I wonder why Elan thinks that if you went to elan and graduate that that automatically puts you in the running for a Staff position.
I mean What Degree do have. No offense to anyone on this board who was staff but really.
Read between the lines.
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FUCK ELAN FUCK ELAN FUCK ELAN FUCK ELAN
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Marc told me the same thing: "I'm not sure if you need to go to any meetings" and said it would be great if I could smoke pot in moderation.
Kate Hawkins, however, told me in no uncertain terms that I'd better not pick up out there and reminded me that alcoholism is a progressive disease.
Thank God for Kate. She likely saved my life with that little talk.
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Hey Peter weren't you the one that said that Marc was your friend and you respected him?
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Oliver... that doesn't mean he was right about everything.
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I just dont under stand how you can be friends with someone who you said you dont really like and is a BIG BIG BIG HUGE double standered.
Hey Peter I think your playing both sides of the Fence here!.!.! :wstupid:
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Never said I didn't like him, Oliver. I'm just pointing to Elan's often flawed philosophy. That's not playing both sides of the fence.
It's like this: I'm quite sure that however much you hate Elan, you got one or two good pieces of advice there, right? No one side is wrong or right all the time.
I'll pretend I didn't see that sign you displayed... that ain't right.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Moore on 2004-05-14 09:01 ]
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What im saying is that if someone treats you lke shit day in and day out im not gonna say he is a good person because he told me to look both ways before cossing the street. To me thats both sides
How can you say you respect him if you dont like what he does or what he stands for.(scaring and treating little kids like shit)
Im not calling you stupid but if someone contantly treats you like shit and you defend him well...............
_________________
"You feeling froggy Motherfucker?"[ This Message was edited by: O.U.2 on 2004-05-14 09:11 ]
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Thats a good analogy OU2
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Oliver,
There was another side to Marc that you probably didn't see. Yes, I saw what you described and yes, I got yelled at by Marc. Yeah, he even scared me at first. After awhile, I realized he was all bark. To me it wasn't "treating me like shit." Getting screamed at didn't bother me that much... it's just the same in the Army, I imagine. Although the GMs were too much. Then again, I could never take that personally (I never got a GM).
When he screamed at me, I tried to see where he had a point. When he didn't, I slammed him for it. That's the thing, most people didn't know how to handle Marc when he was out of line. I did.
One time, I had Clare run an encounter group and I smoked him in it, calling him every name in the book. Clare even criticized Marc in the group for being "defensive."
I also, on multiple occasions, confronted Marc on various things and we talked it out. That's why we got along so well. I stood up to him.
Marc also could be incredibly kind. Did he play favorites? You're damn right he did. Was he out of line with it? Probably sometimes. I sometimes got criticized for things that probably weren't my fault. He was tougher on me than some people. But on a couple occasions, he called in on his days off to see how I was doing. He even called in to wish me well one night when I got shotdown for the newspaper not being done. And he came in once on another day off to run a phone conference for me. That's the thing: I know he cared.
After Elan, Marc and I fell out of each other's good graces. I said I was starting an anti-Elan site. When he refused to talk to me about the Skakel case, I called him a coward. That set him off. We didn't speak for about 2.5 years and except for a call in 2001, haven't spoken since. And today, we're not nearly as close.
I still don't agree with everything Marc stands for. I don't agree with everything members of my family or my wife stands for either. It doesn't mean I care about them any less. When you build a relationship with someone, you don't stop caring about them just because you fall out of favor on certain issues... even if you're so angry that you sever ties. That's just the nature of relationships -- you don't stop caring.
Does that answer your question?
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Moore on 2004-05-14 09:29 ]
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I don't remember rosenberg but I remember his name.Maybe he was at six.How long has he been around.Is he still there
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No it doesnt answer it because first of all how can you compare that motherfucker to your family. I'll bet that you have way more good times than bad with them.
Also, i did stand up to that motherfucker in a GM cause he tried to embaress me by putting dirty clothes on my head and was about to smack me so thats when i grabbed both his arms, looked him in his face and said loud so the whole house could hear "Dont you ever put your fucking hands on me if you do we'll have a big problem". Then i guess he felt stupid cause he told me to go back to the corner and that was the last about that And i got out of the corner with no GM. After that day he was carefull on how he handled me. Now im not saying he didnt continue to treat me like shit, but for example one week after that i kept getting booked for cursing and he talked to me about it and i basically told him i wasnt going to stop. This mother fucker then said,"I now its hard cause that what your used to so its ok you dont have to stop just bring it down a notch. As soon as i walked out i cursed out staff zone.
The point is your family and real friends dont treat you like shit or even have to stand up to them for them to start caring cause they want to help you!
If friends like him are the only ones that i can get then call me a lonely Motherfuker :exclaim: :exclaim:
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If he tried to put dirty clothes on your head, then he was totally wrong. And if he was going to smack you, then yeah, I understand why you think he's an asshole. You did the right thing and I'm glad it worked out for you.
I saw him shove a couple people, but never hit anyone. I'm not saying you're lying though.
Of course I understand why you hate him. And I'm certainly not trying to convince you to like him.
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On 2004-05-14 10:06:00, xres8182 wrote:
"I don't remember rosenberg but I remember his name.Maybe he was at six.How long has he been around.Is he still there"
Marc graduated Elan in 1977 and has worked there off and on since. He quit in '02 and moved to Arizona. He is not in good health at all, from what I've learned.
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I see,he's old school like gottlieb.Not surprised to hear reports of intimidation and such.I remember a lot of that. Nowadays you get in trouble for spanking your kids,I can't imagine that old mentality flys well at elan today
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On 2004-05-14 09:25:00, Peter Moore wrote:
"Oliver,
There was another side to Marc that you probably didn't see. Yes, I saw what you described and yes, I got yelled at by Marc. Yeah, he even scared me at first. After awhile, I realized he was all bark. To me it wasn't "treating me like shit." Getting screamed at didn't bother me that much... it's just the same in the Army, I imagine. Although the GMs were too much. Then again, I could never take that personally (I never got a GM).
When he screamed at me, I tried to see where he had a point. When he didn't, I slammed him for it. That's the thing, most people didn't know how to handle Marc when he was out of line. I did.
One time, I had Clare run an encounter group and I smoked him in it, calling him every name in the book. Clare even criticized Marc in the group for being "defensive."
I also, on multiple occasions, confronted Marc on various things and we talked it out. That's why we got along so well. I stood up to him.
Marc also could be incredibly kind. Did he play favorites? You're damn right he did. Was he out of line with it? Probably sometimes. I sometimes got criticized for things that probably weren't my fault. He was tougher on me than some people. But on a couple occasions, he called in on his days off to see how I was doing. He even called in to wish me well one night when I got shotdown for the newspaper not being done. And he came in once on another day off to run a phone conference for me. That's the thing: I know he cared.
After Elan, Marc and I fell out of each other's good graces. I said I was starting an anti-Elan site. When he refused to talk to me about the Skakel case, I called him a coward. That set him off. We didn't speak for about 2.5 years and except for a call in 2001, haven't spoken since. And today, we're not nearly as close.
I still don't agree with everything Marc stands for. I don't agree with everything members of my family or my wife stands for either. It doesn't mean I care about them any less. When you build a relationship with someone, you don't stop caring about them just because you fall out of favor on certain issues... even if you're so angry that you sever ties. That's just the nature of relationships -- you don't stop caring.
Does that answer your question?
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Moore on 2004-05-14 09:29 ]"
Peter I was curious of something. You mentioned you were going to build an anti elan site? Did you ever build it ? and Do you have a link so I can see it?
You also mentioned that Marc is in poor health condition's, What exactly is wrong with him as far as you know?
I knew he was a heavy pot smoker, rumor had it he smoked it throughout his employment with elan.
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marc has hepatitis from shootin dope, thats what u get for puting another hole in ur body to get high, i mean like we dont have enough holes already
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I started it, but then never finished it. It's been five years. I don't even know where it is. Angelfire probably took it down by now.
As for Marc, the above diagnosis is correct, though the analysis is kind of cruel. [ This Message was edited by: Pete on 2004-05-18 14:52 ]
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Marc shot dope? Guess that would explain of his skinny malnurished looking appearance.
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Hey, Pete you say that the analysis is Kind of Cruel.
Not, just plain Cruel like that Motherfucker!!!
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bumped
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Money, where is it? Let's see.... I'm sure my parents' hard-earned money went to a bunch of lines that Joe Ricci blew. That's really not fair, that money should have went to lines for ME.
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nice