Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Triumvirate on May 10, 2004, 07:35:00 AM
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813. ART. 13 PUNISHMENT PROHIBITED BEFORE TRIAL
No person, while being held for trial, may be subjected to punishment or penalty other than arrest or confinement upon the charges pending against him, nor shall the arrest or confinement imposed upon him be any more rigorous than the circumstances required to insure his presence, but he may be subjected to minor punishment during that period for infractions of discipline.
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893. ART. 93. CRUELTY AND MALTREATMENT
Any person subject to this chapter who is guilty of cruelty toward, or oppression or maltreatment of, any person subject to his orders shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
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Prisoners are subject to the orders of the guards
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934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.
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Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War
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Article 3
In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) Taking of hostages;
(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;
(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.
An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.
The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.
The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict
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Article 13
Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.
Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.
Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.
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Article 14
Prisoners of war are entitled in all circumstances to respect for their persons and their honour. Women shall be treated with all the regard due to their sex and shall in all cases benefit by treatment as favourable as that granted to men. Prisoners of war shall retain the full civil capacity which they enjoyed at the time of their capture. The Detaining Power may not restrict the exercise, either within or without its own territory, of the rights such capacity confers except in so far as the captivity requires.
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Article 17 ppg 3
No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.
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Article 25
Prisoners of war shall be quartered under conditions as favourable as those for the forces of the Detaining Power who are billeted in the same area. The said conditions shall make allowance for the habits and customs of the prisoners and shall in no case be prejudicial to their health.
The foregoing provisions shall apply in particular to the dormitories of prisoners of war as regards both total surface and minimum cubic space, and the general installations, bedding and blankets.
The premises provided for the use of prisoners of war individually or collectively, shall be entirely protected from dampness and adequately heated and lighted, in particular between dusk and lights out. All precautions must be taken against the danger of fire.
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Article 27
Clothing, underwear and footwear shall be supplied to prisoners of war in sufficient quantities by the Detaining Power, which shall make allowance for the climate of the region where the prisoners are detained. Uniforms of enemy armed forces captured by the Detaining Power should, if suitable for the climate, be made available to clothe prisoners of war.
The regular replacement and repair of the above articles shall be assured by the Detaining Power. In addition, prisoners of war who work shall receive appropriate clothing, wherever the nature of the work demands.
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These pretty much cover it, I'll try to find you the General order that specifically states US Forces will abide the the provisions of the Geneva Convention.
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Wow we didnt even get these rights in Straight.
They broke almost all of the Geneva convention regulations.
Were we PoWs? Not technically,but apparantly terrorists and whatnot have treatment regs..but adolescents in drug treatment do not. :???:
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Yeah, and no person should be beheaded just ot make a political point or in retalitation. I'm not excusing what they (our guards) did, but so you rememger a few weeks back when a U.S Contractor was killed, mutilated, dragged through the streets and then gutted and hung from a bridge. I'm just saying that the guards have probably seen more in life than we have in our nightmares. There IS a difference between us taking actual POWs and the Iraqis taking journalists and civilians andthen beheading them on TELEVISION.
First management had plans and then strategic plans. Now we have vision, and we're only one small step from hallucination.
-- Ansley Throckmorton upon assuming the presidency of Bangor Theological Seminary in Bangor, Main per Information World 8-4-`97
[ This Message was edited by: cayohueso on 2004-05-12 07:26 ]
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I totally agree with you on there is a difference. What I am not sure about is who (I havent been keeping close tabs on the news) is responsible for all of the stuff done to americans soldiers and the american civilians. Are these random people or different groups that are against america, or one group only? I would like to know that. It seems like we have been taking the high ground in all of this acting like we are so superior to the country of iraq and so if we want to come out of this ahead i think we will just have to deal with this stuff a little bit better. Otherwise we will lose the only advantage we have. Actually we may have already lost it. Very sad.
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On 2004-05-12 07:13:00, cayohueso wrote:
"Yeah, and no person should be beheaded just ot make a political point or in retalitation. I'm not excusing what they (our guards) did, but so you rememger a few weeks back when a U.S Contractor was killed, mutilated, dragged through the streets and then gutted and hung from a bridge. I'm just saying that the guards have probably seen more in life than we have in our nightmares. There IS a difference between us taking actual POWs and the Iraqis taking journalists and civilians andthen beheading them on TELEVISION. First management had plans and then strategic plans. Now we have vision, and we're only one small step from hallucination.
-- Ansley Throckmorton upon assuming the presidency of Bangor Theological Seminary in Bangor, Main per Information World 8-4-`97
[ This Message was edited by: cayohueso on 2004-05-12 07:26 ]"
As far as they know these guys at least the ring leader were not even Iraqi. In fact he is a Jordanian. These are extremists who existed long before we decided to attack Iraq. Speculation is they are just taking advantage of the abuse in Abu Ghraib but have long been loosely involved with Al Queada. It isn't like these were Iraqi Shiites or otherwise. I'm not saying that Iraqis haven't taken prisoners and clearly they have but they have not resulted in this type of horrific death as far as the information I have seen.
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This is so sad and unnecessary, all of this! These current pictures are the pictures that just lost the war. Does anyone remember the pictures of the girl running naked from napalm in the Vietnam conflict? That was the turning point. Pictures like these take on a life of their own, and will live forever. I just don?t see how we can win this war now. I also think that an escalation of the conflict will see our cities soon. It?s a bad time for America when the people in control are so far removed from the people. What disturbs me the most is how rampant our government lies to us? We all know it happens daily but there is nothing we can do about it. Here is a lie in our morning paper, http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtm ... ID=5109891 (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5109891)
We have been told that UFO?s don?t exist, but anyone that does any research knows they do exist. I know someone personally in the Military that has witnessed daily activity in South America, but we are still lied to about it.
It?s a sad day for America, where has she gone? The Values we once had have been replaced by the control and desires of a few. I fear things will get much worse before they get better. I just hope that someone from the Middle East doesn?t get hold of anything big and detonate it on US soil. If they had their finger on the trigger they would use it now.
I guess the only thing we can truly do is to live a good example and to treat all people with kindness and compassion. Aggression doesn?t seem to work in the long run. The ?Who?s got the biggest stick policy? is short sighted. Just look at Israel and the Palestinians, I hit you, then you hit back, it?s been going on for years. Until everyone puts down there arms we will never see peace. There just has to be a better way, but I don?t know where or with whom it lays anymore. Is Kerry a savior for us? He was part of the Skull and Bones society just like Bush was. They are all the same. We don?t have a choice in our up coming election. It?s all planned that way. So the cycle will continue.
Peace all,
VSP
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What is the skull and bones society? Please fill me in.
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You know man..if China Invaded us and decided to "rebuild America" and I saw photos of them making my father/brother suck cock and hooked up to electroshock..I might capture one of them and gut his ass from a bridge too...
Im seeing it from both sides. And what these soldiers saw has nothing to do with it. My father and Uncle were at war together and I have photos of them PoWs and they didnt torture them...and I know my Father saw his buddy blown to pieces by mortar fire not far from where he had just been standing..
So your excuse is moot..
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On 2004-05-12 12:37:00, jane wrote:
"What is the skull and bones society? Please fill me in.
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Do a Google search Jane. Not being rude but its alot faster than asking and waiting for a response...
They were a "secret society" that alot of important people belong to...ties in with illuminati theories..too much for me to explain..
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Here is a web site I just read if there is anybody else out there who doesn't know what the skull and bones is. I don't really see what the big deal about it is. According to this article it's just a bunch of guys stitting around talking about girls and their families with a bunch of bones on the walls.
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/05/robbins.htm (http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/05/robbins.htm)
Jane
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http://www.rotten.com/library/conspirac ... and-bones/ (http://www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy/skull-and-bones/)
Jane , here you go
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Great Article Carmel,
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040513/D82HCIG01.html (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040513/D82HCIG01.html)
Looks like it just got worse for Skull and Bones.
VSP
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Yes I am aware of your point and agree that beheading is not right either.
I have a strong stomach and even went to college to become a mortician but when I saw the behesding footage from last week on http://www.ogrish.com (http://www.ogrish.com) I could barely watch.
Its about 15 iraqi types screaming "Allah Akhbar"
(god is good) while a man saws his head off with a kitchen knife.
I dont condone this either...
However if our troops followed geneva convention and the pics hadnt gotten out this man would not have been beheaded...see what I mean?
These people retaliate everything with acts of violence.
Yes they are murderers...yes they must be stopped...yes they are "evil" in my eyes..yes this is war...but once you take PoWs they actually have more rights than they do on the battlefield.
This is what the nations agree on and this is what we must follow.
I never tried to say that I like Iraq and hate us troops...I was apalled at the treatment of the PoWs ...but Im also apalled at the Beheading..and sadaam and all that
Whole fucking thing is wrong.
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so has anyone else heard talk of the CIA doing this beheading to take the focus off of what the American soldiers had done and save face politically, not to mention the attempt to try to tie this guy to Al Quaeda and Iraq/Saddam? Strange thing is he wasn't (if it's who they claim it was) even an Iraqi at all.
Food for thought, that's all.
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Al Quada (sp) and Sadaam/Iraq are two diff things/people/organizations totally unaffiliated except in the fact that they are enemies of the state.
Thats the thing Iraq had n0othing to do with 9/11 remember? The whole premis for invading Iraq was "weapons of Mass destruction" of which none were found....
This whole things is pathetic and the people that dont see it are just fucking ignorant..
Look they have your head spinning where you forgot why we even invaded dont they?
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On 2004-05-12 12:44:00, Triumvirate wrote:
"You know man..if China Invaded us and decided to "rebuild America" and I saw photos of them making my father/brother suck cock and hooked up to electroshock..I might capture one of them and gut his ass from a bridge too...
Im seeing it from both sides. And what these soldiers saw has nothing to do with it. My father and Uncle were at war together and I have photos of them PoWs and they didnt torture them...and I know my Father saw his buddy blown to pieces by mortar fire not far from where he had just been standing..
So your excuse is moot..
"
Again, get the facts straight.
The guy accused in the beheading is not even Iraqi. The problem is people don't listen and hear only what they want to. The guy who hacked his neck is Jordanian, in other words, he is from Jordan not Iraq. He is linked to Al Quaeda and not to Sadaam. So point is, that people who think Iraqis did this beheading and think it is a justification for any harm caused to Iraqis or think it is far worse than the torture suffered by Iraqis, are just plain stupid. AGAIN, HE ISN'T IRAQI.
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Where in that quote did I say the beheader was an Iraqi? I didnt...
So whats your point, skippy?
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Smoke dope![ This Message was edited by: Triumvirate on 2004-05-17 03:48 ]
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What an idiot you are I just reread my posts and nowhere did I say that...I was making totally diff points...way to not comprehend a 2 paragraph post...
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On 2004-05-17 03:49:00, Triumvirate wrote:
"What an idiot you are I just reread my posts and nowhere did I say that...I was making totally diff points...way to not comprehend a 2 paragraph post...
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Duh
Smoke Dope:
Don't get your panties in a bunch... I probably hit the wrong button. I meant to respond to something else I read.
Who is skippy? And why is everyone so ready to jump on each other. Try smoking a bit more to calm your rage buddy.
With people posting the most ignorant things and not even knowing the facts about those accused... oh forget it. This is a waste of energy.
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My opinion is that you shouldnt need a monstrous list of articles in order to know whats right and wrong or how to treat another human being.
I detest the whole idea that no one TOLD these people how to do it right. That is ultra lame.
Hi, I am Carmel and no one told me it was wrong to fuck ten guys in front of a bunch of POWs, or not to let dogs attack them for my entertainment, or to strip them naked and pretend to stick things in their asses. Give me a fucking break. These people liked what they were doing.
I do have to say though I am a bit self satisfied that my hardcore patriotic buddies who are all about being blind to the realities of this war and the agendas behind below around and above the whole situation...are now not able to puff out their chests and ruffle their feathers about how they are taming the savages and bringing freedom to the oppressed. Well, maybe at least for a moment...before they go back to being blind. Probably just as quick as CNN drops their daily coverage.
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I would also like to add...
I dont want to hear any crap about it being an isolated group of people or incidents.
Half the US population groups any and all people of Middle Eastern decent into the terrorist category. This country just doesnt go around saying that they only hate Saddam or Bin laden...they think they are all grouped together. Case in point the whole beheading thing. We could reiterate the fact that this guy wasnt even Iraqi until our balls turned blue...but that dosent keep Billy Ray from giving the evil eye to Habib down at the Stop n Go.
Americans love to be ignorant to who is really responsible for the atrocities that occur on BOTH sides of the fence.
Leigh Bright justifies in her post that these people were terrorists and would just as soon slit our throats. I am sorry, but I am willing to bet that a good fat percentage of the people in that prison are just like you and me...and in the wrong place at the wrong time. Poor people who have no rights. THAT is what Straight had in common with this situation. More than 2/3 of the kids didnt even do drugs...but that didnt stop them from being druggies to the world. What makes it so difficult to beleive that if this shit is going down in their prison, that not all of those people, if not every last one of them...shouldnt even be there in the first place? You think that this sort of thing can go down and still have a functioning and truthful administration?
OPEN UP YOUR EYES!!!!
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shes right