Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: jcb269 on April 26, 2004, 02:05:00 AM
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Does anyone know anything about a school called Positive Impact in Bahia de Kino Mexico? My parents sent my younger brother to Second Nature in Utah and after that he is going to Positive Imact for 14 months. I am worried that it will turn out like one of the WWASP programs. Interestingly there was a WWASP program that was closed down for abuse called "High" Impact and was listed as having been in baja (same area). I am wondering if WWASP just recycled the program under a new name and fake company, like was done with Coral Reef Academy. Any help would be greatly appreciated...he leaves in 3 weeks. thanks
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Here's an ad:
Positive Impact
Drug and Alcohol Treatment in Mexico
Contact Person:
Linda Schlagel
Phone Number:
877-236-1114
Email Address:
http://www.mytroubledteen.com/441.html (http://www.mytroubledteen.com/441.html)
Anyone familiar w/ Linda Schlagel?
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
Andrew Tannenbaum
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Didn't Tim Weiner write about Positive Impact in his article in the NY Times. I remember reading something about it. It was made out in the article to be a "better" place then Casa. Of course who "really" knows.
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Positive Impact is not associated or affileated with WWASP.
You don't find internet sites devoted to the support of Positive Impact survivors; or for exposing the abuse and neglect at Positive Impact, for what that might be worth. . .
They *seem* to be well thought of by the treatment community, for what that might be worth. . .
and thats all I know.
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"for what that might be worth"....who really knows?...in there lies the danger..."for what it might be worth."
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You also don't see forum dedicated to the hundreds of other programs out there. That doesn't make it okay, just too small potatoes for a forum.
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Positive Impact isn't affiliated with Cedu or Aspen Education Group, etc., either. That would be a huge red flag for me. No oversight by a bigger entity, plus they are out of the country. Casa by the Sea has a great reputation in their community, so why do you think Positive Impact is better. A Program is a Program.
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Casa by the Sea has a great reputation in their community, so why do you think Positive Impact is better. A Program is a Program. "
Excuse me? EXCUSE ME! Exactly what community, other than the BBS WWASPS Board, gives Casa by the Sea a great reputation? Give me one...one... single independent representative of any "community" who gives Casa a great reputation. Or, ...reputation for what? Turning out "respectful, loving", terrified kids for the first 6 months they're home?
A Program may be a Program, but perhaps Positive Impact has the staff, training, methodology to be a...well, positive impact. Casa does not.
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Says here that Mr. Craig Rogers (ALA) was once the Program Director for Positive Impact.
http://abundantlifeacademy.com/about.php (http://abundantlifeacademy.com/about.php)
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Who is Craig Rogers (i.e. would it have been bad that he was once program director for Positive Impact?)
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On 2004-04-26 22:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Who is Craig Rogers (i.e. would it have been bad that he was once program director for Positive Impact?)"
No, it would not be bad, just a point of reference for someone looking for information about a particular program. Besides, Rogers listed the program on his own bio which seems to me he has no objections about his past association with the program in question.
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Spots endorsing Positive Impact...funny...seems to be a connection between Spots, Tim Weiner, Craig Rogers, Positive Impace, Karen Z, Steve Bozak...and so on and so on.
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craig rogers was also associated with Rite of Passage. you will find an article re: rite of passage at nospank.net bootcamps.html
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On 2004-04-26 21:17:00, spots wrote:
"
Casa by the Sea has a great reputation in their community, so why do you think Positive Impact is better. A Program is a Program. "
Excuse me? EXCUSE ME! Exactly what community, other than the BBS WWASPS Board, gives Casa by the Sea a great reputation? Give me one...one... single independent representative of any "community" who gives Casa a great reputation. Or, ...reputation for what? Turning out "respectful, loving", terrified kids for the first 6 months they're home?
A Program may be a Program, but perhaps Positive Impact has the staff, training, methodology to be a...well, positive impact. Casa does not."
First, who are you affiliated or in bed with that refers to Positive Impact? Second, your grand daughter did not complete the program, her mother was bullied, or should I say threatened, by you to bring her home, or else! If she is having nightmares, guess who causes them?
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On 2004-04-27 06:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2004-04-26 21:17:00, spots wrote:
"
Casa by the Sea has a great reputation in their community, so why do you think Positive Impact is better. A Program is a Program. "
Excuse me? EXCUSE ME! Exactly what community, other than the BBS WWASPS Board, gives Casa by the Sea a great reputation? Give me one...one... single independent representative of any "community" who gives Casa a great reputation. Or, ...reputation for what? Turning out "respectful, loving", terrified kids for the first 6 months they're home?
A Program may be a Program, but perhaps Positive Impact has the staff, training, methodology to be a...well, positive impact. Casa does not."
First, who are you affiliated or in bed with that refers to Positive Impact? Second, your grand daughter did not complete the program, her mother was bullied, or should I say threatened, by you to bring her home, or else! If she is having nightmares, guess who causes them? "
I'd guess The Program.
"Gee, if we'd only abused you some more you'd be just fine!"
Sorry, but there's *no* clinical treatment with rigorous scientific studies backing its efficacy that has the patient well at the end of treatment and having nightmares in the middle if they don't finish the treatment.
Generally, if someone gets worse in the middle of a psychiatric "treatment" of many months' duration, it's pretty good evidence that the "treatment" is on the wrong track.
Insanity is doing what you did before some more and thinking you're going to get different results.
But it's a wonderful copout for dealing with dissatisfied customers---if they decide your service is crap and leave in the middle (as most dissatisfied customers will), you blame all their problems on their having left in the middle.
It means never having to take responsibility for the psychiatric casualties of a bad treatment strategy.
Too bad for you that it's so easy for the outside world to see through that kind of cop-out.
Which is why the Programs hide as much of what they do as possible *from* the outside world, isn't it?
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Which is why the Programs hide as much of what they do as possible *from* the outside world, isn't it?"
One must ask exactly who finds the need to post retaliatory comments for criticism of The Program. For every dozen identical survivor stories about any one aspect, some Anon immediately shoots back, "...no, they didn't. That isn't so. You're lying." There never is any direct repudiation of the damningly-similar stories. Oh, except, "...thousands have been helped, and you just don't want to let that happen anymore."
Someone here continues to state that mail is not censored, that parents wander in droves willy-nilly through these "schools", that confrontational group therapy by a bunch of screwed-up and isolated 16-yo's is beneficial for children "working on themselves", that families can indeed develop skills of parent-child interaction better 3000 miles away from their children and out of contact for months at a time, rather than at weekly counseling sessions at home.
Survivors talk about what happened to them. Anonymous advocates simply say, "You're lying". Who do you believe?
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:nworthy:
You are a wise woman spots.
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***First, who are you affiliated or in bed with that refers to Positive Impact? **
Spots, good question. Seems to me that you are endorsing the same kind of program, so what's up? I take it you've been to Positive Impact.
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SPOTS WROTE: "A Program may be a Program, but perhaps Positive Impact has the staff, training, methodology to be a...well, positive impact."
Excuse me? Where did you get this information? From a brochure, from parents or kids that have been there? I'm not saying it's a bad program, it's just that with all programs who do you believe? You have chosen to somehow say positive things about Positive Impact, however, unless you've been there, who's right?
What IS their methodology and what is the success rate?
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Do they take involuntary placements? Are they licensed as a lock-down? Do they isolate their students from the outside world?
Just basic stuff. Anybody know the answers?Men seldom, or rather never for a length of time, and deliberately, rebel against anything that does not deserve rebelling against.
--Thomas Carlyle
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http://bahiadekino.com/home.html (http://bahiadekino.com/home.html)
They talk about isolation isn't a good thing, however, the only parental involvement is twice monthly therapy sessions and in person therapy every 2-3 months. What does it offer for parents other than that? Are there support meetings, on line chatting, parent/student seminars or workshops, after care or follow up? At 4,800 a month I don't see where it would warrant that kind of tuition, especially in Mexico, that's about equivalent to $7000 here in the US. The methodology isn't explained other than positive peer culture and experiental learning. I don't get it, it seems to lack the pieces needed to create a long term difference.
I'm open to learning what those that have been there can share.
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http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... sit01.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1999/8/visit01.html) - Yep, a strong link to Craig Rogers!
http://www.aabacktobasics.org/New-Upcom ... vents.html (http://www.aabacktobasics.org/New-Upcoming%20Events.html)
And:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/teenb ... oot28.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/teenboot/teenboot28.html) - Wonder who talked up Positive Impact in contrast to his articles on WWASPS. Who's sleeping with whom?
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What do Karen Z, Craig Rogers, Sue Scheff, SPOTS, Cherish Wisdom and Tim Weiner have in common? :wstupid:
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On 2004-04-27 20:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What do Karen Z, Craig Rogers, Sue Scheff, SPOTS, Cherish Wisdom and Tim Weiner have in common? :???:
I dunno...what?
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Just a gut feeling question here. The original poster used the initials JCB. The post just sounds like a "troll" named Jeff Berryman. Anyone know his middle initial?
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On 2004-04-27 20:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What do Karen Z, Craig Rogers, Sue Scheff, SPOTS, Cherish Wisdom and Tim Weiner have in common? :wstupid: "
I don't know either, unless they are all card-carrying members of the mutual adoration society.
:roll:
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A Program may be a Program, but perhaps Positive Impact has the staff, training, methodology to be a...well, positive impact.
Those of you who can only think in cultic black/white terms probably do not understand the word "perhaps". It is the difference between a hypothesis and a ringing endorsement. I know this is a difficult concept for you to grasp but proposing this hypothesis (which BTW I would question) does not necessarily mean that spots is taking backhanders, in league with PURE and party to their dastardly plan to overthrow WWASP and take over the world.
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Kiwi, whether you are privy to truth or not, they are all close associates. They have all been working together to pull kids from WWASP programs all the while supporting placement in others.
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CXarey - go crawl back under your rock.
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Good Grief. While I don't agree with Spots hyposthesis that Positive impact MAY be okay (due to my belief that all programs using these techniques regardless of training, staffing, etc. are harmfull), I don't see how this connects her in some conspiracy.
My reading of her prior posts have led me to believe she is a grandma of a program survivor that was harmed. She is reading and learning and evolving her opinions.
If she is a shill for Pure or anyone else, it has flown right over my head. As it stands, I find that assertion nonsensical.
What programs do you "support" if any, Spots?
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Greg, that is just it, you don't have all of the facts on Spots and the gang. All you know is what they post publically. What they do privately behind the scenes, is what you and all readers on this public forum do not know.
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I agree, something stinks here. Smells like grease to me (as in greased palms???).
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On 2004-04-28 04:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Kiwi, whether you are privy to truth or not, they are all close associates. They have all been working together to pull kids from WWASP programs all the while supporting placement in others.
"
I'd like to know something about them others.
I started probably over a year ago asking PURE affiliated people about these other programs and have yet to get any answer at all to any question.
Here are some of the questions:
1) To which schools does PURE refer families.
While I still don't have any conclusive answer to that question, I did find (actually Deborah found and passed on to the forum) a post by Sue to the Bridge to Understanding from Dec `01 describing Skyline Journey as "part of The PURE Foundation"
http://www.bridgetounderstanding.com/cg ... i?read=460 (http://www.bridgetounderstanding.com/cgi-bin/infoforum.cgi?read=460)
Later, someone identifying themselves as LeeAnne said they'd never taken a referal from PURE because SJ wouldn't pay their fee. Doesn't matter.
Here are the schools listed in the WWASP v PURE docket from last December:
*Oak Ridge Military Academy
*Glacier Mountain Academy
*Sorenson's Ranch School c/o Vione Simkins
*Red Rock Canyon School c/o Melanie Habibian
*The Whitmore Academy
*Safe Harbor Haven
*New Horizons Youth Ministries
*High Top Academy
*Lott's Legacy Boarding School,
I can't be sure that this list is an accurate or even partial answer to my question.
Anybody?
2) How does PURE ensure the safety and efficacy of the programs to which they refer people?
Nothing but the sound of crickets and some tolling about mostley Carey in response to that one.
3) How, exactly, is PURE different from WWASP.
Anybody?
Now, are you saying, anon, that Positive Impact is one of the programs to which PURE refers people? If you can show me some proof of that, I'll add it to the list and look into it when I have time.
The only voluntary urine sample they'll get from me is a taste test
--Bumper Sticker
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Thanks Ginger, I too would like to know more about these programs. We all know that WWASPS ain't the only gig in town. There are hundreds of programs all pitching their "features and benefits" on the Internet 24.7.365. and apparently, benefiting from the hard work (sic) of ed cons and independent referral agents steering the current crop of troubled parents their way ....
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On 2004-04-28 07:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Greg, that is just it, you don't have all of the facts on Spots and the gang. All you know is what they post publically. What they do privately behind the scenes, is what you and all readers on this public forum do not know."
Well, that is interesting. Spots, are you a member of Pure? Are you assiting in removing kids from WWasp and placing them in Pure "approved" facilities?
If so, why is Pure's brand of behavior modification better than WWasps?
Spots, help bring me around to a better understanding of who I am speaking to and responding to. I will not take other's words for your intentions but instead care to hear it from your mouth.
Thank you.
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On 2004-04-27 05:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Spots endorsing Positive Impact...funny...seems to be a connection between Spots, Tim Weiner, Craig Rogers, Positive Impace, Karen Z, Steve Bozak...and so on and so on.
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Tim Weiner, isn't that the journalist who wrote articles about WWASPS? Why would he be even remotely connected with any of these folks?
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Well, that is interesting. Spots, are you a member of Pure? Are you assiting in removing kids from WWasp and placing them in Pure "approved" facilities?
If so, why is Pure's brand of behavior modification better than WWasps?
Spots, help bring me around to a better understanding of who I am speaking to and responding to. I will not take other's words for your intentions but instead care to hear it from your mouth.
Thank you.
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Well, Greg, this is who I am and what I stand for. BTW, my real name is known to this forum, courtesy of an illegally reprinted private email from me to Carey Bock.
I am a grandmother, married 40 years to my high school sweetheart, having 8 grandhchildren, raising horses, goats, chickens, etc. on a ranch in Northern California. We are grandparents (and guardians) of a now-15yo girl who spent 10 months at Casa by the Sea. Her mother, the sole custodial parent, did not communicate directly with her for the duration of her incarceration, allowing her to suffer the sort of life that you and others endured in Straight. While I cannot understand this reasoning, it was the strongly-expressed wishes of the new step-father that this child was disrectful enough to need behavior modification that seemed to blind the custodial parent to the possibilities of abuse testified to by survivors such as those among us.
Obvious to anyone with half a brain is my loathing for all "programs". KarenZ (my "accomplice?") is a nice person, but her affiliation with yet another fix-for-hire group has put her on my Negative List. Do I refer to other programs after WWASPS? Have I ever ever ever said anything positive about any program, except that famous "...perhaps Positive Impact may be OK", which is as ringing an endorsement as me saying Saddam Hussein (or Pol Pot or Jo En Li [North Korean guy]) is less evil than Adolph Hitler.
There is no behavior modification. No behavior can be "modified". One can oppress inappropriate behavior, perhaps supplant it with something more socially-acceptable IF the perpetrator finds the alternative acceptable. Otherwise, you just paint over with whitewash, which washes off in the first spring rain. The trick is to work with the perpetrator and try to present a value analysis that would make behaving "normal" a Good Thing. Smoking pot, smart-mouthing, and staying out past curfew are "normal", relatively short term, and usually prove to be more trouble than they're worth to continue.
Do I receive big bucks from PURE to get kids out of WWASPS and send them off to a PURE-paid-referral "program". No. Actually, my financial position is a great deal more than "comfortable", not requiring me to stoop to affiliation with any teen referral agency. I do have high moral standards for my endeavors, and I am sorry for people who shill for evil, whether for money, assuaging guilt, or simply because they're too dumb to know the difference.
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Thank you Spots. This has been my impression of you all along. I accept what you say at face value.
I am finding these PURE and WWASP paranoid delusional rantings a bit boring, to be frank.
Spots, you are cool in my book. I love it when someone out of the direct line of fire (children, sibling, parents) gets involved and rescues a kid from a program, and then becomes a program critic.
Thank you for caring, and Keep it up!
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And by the way, Spots...I was in the Seed in 1973, not Straight. Straight was a cheap imitation of the real thing, a cool-aide love cult rehab named the Seed that spawned that line of treatment centers. In fact, my father was one of the founders of Straight, Inc.
I am the father of a 21 year old full time college kid that has even smoked pot,skipped school,had parties at my house behind my back, had the police called on him, been in fights and drank beer and cussed at his father! Imagine!!!!!!
Oh yeah, and if he continues on his current path, should have his PHD and be a psychologist within 3 years, has been living on his own for 2 1/2 years and takes care of a dog, maintains a job and loves his family.
No behavior modification necessary......
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Spots writes:
KarenZ (my "accomplice?") is a nice person, but her affiliation with yet nother fix-for-hire group has put her on my Negative List.
Well, I am sorry to learn this. I'd like to point out tho, that it has never been a secret that I sent my son to another program after pulling him from Dundee; and I have always said I felt this was, in our case, a good choice. My affiliation with this program has also never been a secret and I have explained it in detail several times. Some might get the idea you have just learned about this, and that's an unfair impression to give. I can't help but think if I have been moved from your "positive list" to your "negative list", it has more to do with something other than this "affileation", about which you have always known; But whatever the reason, I am sorry to learn you have me on your "negative list." I can't help but think you are using a tilted scale when weighing me in the balance - but its your scale.
Greg Writes:
Oh yeah, and if he continues on his current path, should have his PHD and be a psychologist within 3 years, has been living on his own for 2 1/2 years and takes care of a dog, maintains a job and loves his family.
This is good news; and hopefully when he is a physiologist, he'll be able to reach kids like mine and maybe actually help. I don't want to write a great deal about just how scary a serious drug problem is; and how different from token' on a number now and then. . .but it Is Very scary and Very different; and I just can't bring myself to agree that their is nothing a concerned and caring parent should do.
The advice is often "spend Time with your kid; get family therapy; get drug counseling, ect". . .We tried all that.
And while I know time pressure and jobs and all, often keep parents from having time for their kids; this wasn't out situation.
And, it wasn't as if I didn't seek out professional opinions. . .
I asked the family doctor; the school counselors; the drug consoler; a psychologist who does family therapy and adolescent issues; as well as every member of our extended family for advice; and it was unanimous that under the circumstances, a "program" was a valid decision.
Many people whoz opinions on this subject I do respect, disagree, and maintain that any program is bad news. I am willing to accept that you *might* be right; at least as far as it seldom helps and the risk of harm is real; But I am not able to go so far myself, as to say there isn't sometimes a need for intervention of the program kind. However, and let me stress it; as ISAC points out: No One Should Be Abused in the name of Treatment!
I couldn't agree more.
Anonymous wrote:
"Spots endorsing Positive Impact...funny...seems to be a connection between Spots, Tim Weiner, Craig Rogers, Positive Impace, Karen Z, Steve Bozak...and so on and so on. "
&
Tim Weiner, isn't that the journalist who wrote articles about WWASPS? Why would he be even remotely connected with any of these folks?
He's not. Not at all. And neither are many others named, connected. I only know of one person who lumps all these individuals together. I would assume this is her.
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On 2004-04-28 07:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Greg, that is just it, you don't have all of the facts on Spots and the gang. All you know is what they post publically. What they do privately behind the scenes, is what you and all readers on this public forum do not know."
And You do have the facts, is that it?
You are all knowing and all seeing, and have it All figured out, huh?
What Spots and the gang (gotta love that Spots!)is doing behind the scenes is something you are an authority on?
And it must be something Real Bad, huh?
What oh What could it be?
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by Sandra Kidd, Educational Consultant
June, 1999
Austin, Texas
512-338-1272
A beautiful beachfront Mexican villa located on the Sea of Cortez in a quaint fishing village and American retirement community called Bahia de Kino is the location for Positive Impact, a new residential specialty program for adolescent boys between the ages of 12 to 18. Here the boys work and live as a ?community of family? while learning new cognitive thinking and positive behavioral patterns through mentoring and leadership development. The average length of stay is from six to eighteen months and thanks to the Mexican economy the program is more affordable to some parents.
A profile of an appropriate candidate is a boy who has one or more of the following situations: a sense of adventure though often misguided and overly risky, substance abuse, a belief that parents and other authority figures are dispensable, suffers from loss of a Father-figure or needs male mentoring, needs life skill development, has a sense of entitlement, underachieves in school, is unable to make positive choices, or is involved in a negative peer subculture. The directors of the program believe that removing the boys from their natural, familiar environments forces them to have an ?imbalance,? and their exposure to a new, foreign culture makes them receptive to change and reflection, which then ?creates balance? within their lives.
A team of professionals called life coaches guides this process. Even though Positive Impact is a new program, the professionals who are involved in the program each have many years of experience working with troubled youth. They clearly know how to facilitate changes in attitudes and behaviors. This team includes J. John Anderson, M.S., Executive Director, Keith A. Breiland, M.D., Medical Director, Michael Cumming, M.S., Program Director, and Craig Rogers, Residential Living Coordinator.
I observed a GGI (Guided Group Interaction) that was led by Mike and Craig and was impressed with the genuine interest and concern they had for the boys in counseling them. They were good at recognizing destructive thinking and behavior that had become patterns for them, and helping them restructure their approach to positive, solution-focused living and coping skills. This process of counseling is called ?Positive Peer Environment.? It teaches the boys how to: identify problems, accept responsibility for their actions, and work towards a positive ?win-win? resolution. This philosophy and five levels of STEPS (Service, Treatment, Education, Purpose, Success) enable the boys to examine issues of trust, honesty, integrity, leadership, value, clarification, and problem solving.
They are taught the self development by caring and serving others. They help each other with the cleaning and cooking in the house as well as doing many hours of community service. They illustrated this attitude to my colleague, Susan Skelton, and me when we entered the house for the first time and each boy introduced himself to us and asked how he could serve us. This is an amazing change of attitude for some of the boys who were used to being negative and self-serving.
The boys attend school on site. Each boy has an IEP that is designed to help him catch up for failed or missing credits and to continue taking subjects to graduate from high school. The courses are offered through an accredited school in the United States. There is also a lot of experiential education. We took a boat to a neighboring island and enjoyed watching the boys make a presentation on the ecology of the island. They also showed me the mountain they climb and where they go snorkeling for recreation. They will soon add scuba diving to their activities. The boys have very full days from early morning until night. Because of the heat, recreational activities take place in the morning and with the other chores, schoolwork, and community service spaced throughout the remainder of the day. There is a siesta every afternoon. Remember, it?s Mexico!
Family involvement is also a key element to the program. Intensive, weekend family retreat sessions at Kion Bay occur approximately every two months. In addition, modern Internet technology enables parents to see and talk to their son while having a weekly family therapy session. Impressive?. In fact, I would say that Positive Impact had an overall positive impression on me.
I AM NOT IMPRESSED. First of all the boys must clean, cook and do other chores and community service (whatever that is). The program is designed to help the boys learn "new congnitive thinking and possitive behavior patterns." It takes 6 to 18 months. Also the lady was asked by the boys, "how can we serve you?" There's also limited contact with the outside world and parents are only allowed to contact students on-line. They also have weekly family therapy - which is usually a monitored phone visit with the child. I saw many RED FLAGS and WARNING SIGNS OF AN ABUSIVE PROGRAM in this flowery post. It's been around since 1999 - there should be more information. It seems like it does have WWASP characteristics. The sadist cannot stand the separation of the public and the private; nor can he grant to others the mystery of their personality, the validity of their inner self...in order for him to feel his maximum power, he wants the world to be peopled with concrete manipulatable objects...
-- ERNEST BECKER, The Structure of Evil, 1968.
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Hi, I have been following this post since i first put it up, and I am not a "troll" as someone suggested it I really do have a brother that is going to Positive Impact. There has been a lot of beneficial information posted, but my problem is convincing my parents that this Positive Impact poses some potentially mentally abusive charactieristics in its programs. Does anyone have any suggestions about fomulating an outline a plan to do this? I just don't know that much about therapy or "behaviour modification" to see red flags.
Does anyone know a good article talking about the effects of these sorts of therapies. Preferably not by someone who could be construed as a "radical activist" as my parents would say, but a neutral observer? Thanks for all the help.
John
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Hello, I myself went to this program, I have been out for 2 years now and would love to answer any questions you have about Positive Impact. Feel free to email me at brianhama@hotmail.com
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My son is attending Positive Impact as a result of his mother's intervention due to drug use in his senior year. He went to 2nd Nature in Utah and followed by this Positive Impact. At 2nd nature, his communication with both his mother and I was very favorable. He confronted with some honesty, his use of drugs and reasons for dropping out of high school.
I am finding a stone wall in my communications with him via mail or phone. He is in step one and it appears that he will remain there for a time based period as opposed to an achievement based approach. Bottom line is; he wants to leave upon his 18th birthday and his mother and the staff appear to have put up all stops to prevent this from happening. I, as his father, really do appreciate the need for him to confront his issues and own his life. However, some of the tactics that I see, I cannot help but feel are unreasonable. As an example; upon his arrival at PI, he took to reading books. Bear in mind that he had just spent 48 days and nights in the Utah wilderness without a tent and only a tarp over his head. He was ok with that. He even felt a never before sense of inner strength. After 2 days of reading at PI, they put him on a (book blackout). In the days following at one of the sessions, my son mentioned that his 18th birthday was 5 weeks away and that he might choose to leave the program. A matter that is well within his legal rights. The groups response was an intervention that requires him to pay for his meals and rent. Beach time for him consists of wathcing the other boys swim while he picks up trash on the beach to earn his meals and rent. He told me that he is required to ask permission to enter rooms of the house he lives in.
All of this is to me,- couter intuitive. So far this seems like a bad frat house.
I await a reply from you, and formost, I'm waiting for a reply from the staff at PI.
An anxious father
PS I would like to take the liberty of posting these questions to you on the wayward web. I will respect the privacy of your response by not sharing it with anyone.
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Anxious Father, are you paying for your son's attendance at Positive Impact? If so, why does he need to work for his room and board?
If your son wants to leave when he is 18, what are his plans? When he makes that decision, he will need to figure out where he will live and eat. If he choses your home, he will need to follow your rules, (reasonable rules like no drugs or alcohol in your home, doing chores to help the family, going to school and/or work, etc.) If he cannot do that then he will need to find somewhere else to live.
I had troublesome teens who had to make these decisions. When they needed to come home to save money to be able to move out again, they followed the rules and even made a few on their own so that they could save money faster. One still has some serious problems and drugs was not part of it. The other had to come to terms with his attitude about drugs and alcohol. Today he is a very responsible adult family man. Yes, he can fall off the wagon and he knows it. Still, he managed to become the man he is without being sent to a behavior modification facility/school/prison. Do all teens with attitude and drug problems find a successful end? Probably not, but behavior modifications programs are not the answer. BMP success are the ones who were like my now responsible son. These teenagers are going to change no matter what. Ask Ginger. She has it right. They are going to do drugs or whatever until it is no longer fun. Then they become grownups all by themselves.
Good luck with your son. Hopefully all he needs is life on his own with a humdrum job and cooking his own meals in a shared apartment. Letting him go off on his own does not mean you don't have him over for dinner occasionally. You remember him on holidays and his birthday with presents and consider him part of the family. In other words you don't disown him!
I believe WWASPS do recommend disowning a child who does not follow the program rules. I do not know is Positive Impact recommends disowning a child. You need to talk with your son face to face to find out just how realistic he is. Then tell him your reasonable rules. Again, good luck.
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Thanks Janet, that was very good advice you gave the anxious father. The last thing in the world these program kids need is to be threatened with abandonment once they turn 18 and have the right to decide for themselves whether they want to remain "submerged in a controlled environment" or return home and pick up their lives as best they can.
This father sounds like he understands there is no pot of gold at the end of these programs. That most kids "fake it" until they "make it". That the real parenting work begins the day their now-adult-size child comes home.
Hopefully, all the positive things this boy got out of his experience will not be lost on facing a potentially uncertain future without the love and support of his family. All programs that allow this to happen are guilty of the worst kind manipulation and should be held accountable for essentially using these kids as a pawn to persuade parents that to keep "working the program" (and of course, signing those checks!).
In any case, Janet raises some good points AND has offered viable solutions which for the sake of this young man, I hope will be seriously considered by his family.
Good Luck to All!
:smile:
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On 2004-04-28 17:48:00, cherish wisdom wrote:
"by Sandra Kidd, Educational Consultant
June, 1999
Austin, Texas
512-338-1272
A beautiful beachfront Mexican villa located on the Sea of Cortez in a quaint fishing village and American retirement community called Bahia de Kino is the location for Positive Impact, a new residential specialty program for adolescent boys between the ages of 12 to 18. Here the boys work and live as a ?community of family? while learning new cognitive thinking and positive behavioral patterns through mentoring and leadership development. The average length of stay is from six to eighteen months and thanks to the Mexican economy the program is more affordable to some parents.
A profile of an appropriate candidate is a boy who has one or more of the following situations: a sense of adventure though often misguided and overly risky, substance abuse, a belief that parents and other authority figures are dispensable, suffers from loss of a Father-figure or needs male mentoring, needs life skill development, has a sense of entitlement, underachieves in school, is unable to make positive choices, or is involved in a negative peer subculture. The directors of the program believe that removing the boys from their natural, familiar environments forces them to have an ?imbalance,? and their exposure to a new, foreign culture makes them receptive to change and reflection, which then ?creates balance? within their lives.
A team of professionals called life coaches guides this process. Even though Positive Impact is a new program, the professionals who are involved in the program each have many years of experience working with troubled youth. They clearly know how to facilitate changes in attitudes and behaviors. This team includes J. John Anderson, M.S., Executive Director, Keith A. Breiland, M.D., Medical Director, Michael Cumming, M.S., Program Director, and Craig Rogers, Residential Living Coordinator.
I observed a GGI (Guided Group Interaction) that was led by Mike and Craig and was impressed with the genuine interest and concern they had for the boys in counseling them. They were good at recognizing destructive thinking and behavior that had become patterns for them, and helping them restructure their approach to positive, solution-focused living and coping skills. This process of counseling is called ?Positive Peer Environment.? It teaches the boys how to: identify problems, accept responsibility for their actions, and work towards a positive ?win-win? resolution. This philosophy and five levels of STEPS (Service, Treatment, Education, Purpose, Success) enable the boys to examine issues of trust, honesty, integrity, leadership, value, clarification, and problem solving.
They are taught the self development by caring and serving others. They help each other with the cleaning and cooking in the house as well as doing many hours of community service. They illustrated this attitude to my colleague, Susan Skelton, and me when we entered the house for the first time and each boy introduced himself to us and asked how he could serve us. This is an amazing change of attitude for some of the boys who were used to being negative and self-serving.
The boys attend school on site. Each boy has an IEP that is designed to help him catch up for failed or missing credits and to continue taking subjects to graduate from high school. The courses are offered through an accredited school in the United States. There is also a lot of experiential education. We took a boat to a neighboring island and enjoyed watching the boys make a presentation on the ecology of the island. They also showed me the mountain they climb and where they go snorkeling for recreation. They will soon add scuba diving to their activities. The boys have very full days from early morning until night. Because of the heat, recreational activities take place in the morning and with the other chores, schoolwork, and community service spaced throughout the remainder of the day. There is a siesta every afternoon. Remember, it?s Mexico!
Family involvement is also a key element to the program. Intensive, weekend family retreat sessions at Kion Bay occur approximately every two months. In addition, modern Internet technology enables parents to see and talk to their son while having a weekly family therapy session. Impressive?. In fact, I would say that Positive Impact had an overall positive impression on me.
I AM NOT IMPRESSED. First of all the boys must clean, cook and do other chores and community service (whatever that is). The program is designed to help the boys learn "new congnitive thinking and possitive behavior patterns." It takes 6 to 18 months. Also the lady was asked by the boys, "how can we serve you?" There's also limited contact with the outside world and parents are only allowed to contact students on-line. They also have weekly family therapy - which is usually a monitored phone visit with the child. I saw many RED FLAGS and WARNING SIGNS OF AN ABUSIVE PROGRAM in this flowery post. It's been around since 1999 - there should be more information. It seems like it does have WWASP characteristics. The sadist cannot stand the separation of the public and the private; nor can he grant to others the mystery of their personality, the validity of their inner self...in order for him to feel his maximum power, he wants the world to be peopled with concrete manipulatable objects...
-- ERNEST BECKER, The Structure of Evil, 1968.
"
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I unfortunately was a resident at "positive impact" for four hellish months. I could write a novel about what a terrible place it is, but I don't have the time, so let me just say a few things. I have been out for three years, and I am still struggling with post tramatic stress disorder as a result of that sick sadistic place. I have talked to a few kids from there since I have been out, and earned about others from them. The vast majority of them now are now addicted to cocaine and heroin even though most were not prior to entering the program. One kid I knew there who was constantly torfmented by the staff killed himself the first day he got out. Do not believe the lies on the website for the "program." Ninety percent of their effort is put into deceiving ed consultants and parents of prospective residents into thinki9ng it is a god place. They use the same brainwashing techniques on the residents that are employed by the military and the cult of scientology. And "cult" is a much more accurate description of this place than "treatment program." They do not let the kids say anything bad about the program during their 10 minutes of phone-time per week with parents. The reason it is in Mexico is not the reason they tell you. Most of the staff are local Mexicans who are paid poorly even by the wage standards of Mexico. There is barely any community service. Among other reasons, the program is located in Mexico to make it extremely hard for kids who turn 18 there to leave. Also, they usually convince parents to say to their son "If you leave the program when you turn 18, we will not support you financially." They lie to the kids, they lie to parents and they lie to ed consultants. This cult does not help young men- it severly harms them. I know all too well, and my friend Eric did too- before he killed himself.
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i am a former student at positive impact and happened to come across this forum in response to a link i was sent. i have searched the internet to try to find some fair critcisms and opinions from the viewpoints of former students and people who have had firsthand experience with this program, so far i have been unable to find almost anything. like i said, i think its important to take into account the real experiences of former students and parents as opposed to the exaggerated praises of the educational consultants. i myself can make a fair judgement that this place isn't anything it is cracked up to be. i spent a little bit more than two months there, not long by the program standards but long enough to understand the place and it's methods of "rehabilitating people"
i made the decision to leave positive impact last july after wavering back and forth under the persuasion of the staff and therapists who tried to convince me to stay. it was about three or four weeks after my eighteenth birthday. i was told that leaving the program was just a way of running away from my problems, that i would never make it in the world, that my family would turn me away for deciding to leave the program. i felt a real lack of sincerity on part of the staff. i feel like i was misled, my parents were misled, and so are the majority of parents who out of fear and confusion send their chidren to programs like these. yes, it is true that these programs may help kids through their subtance abuse issues, but what's at stake ultimately is something more important - the person's identity.
this is all my opinion, but it comes from firsthand experience. my name is john, i'm not trying to make a secret of who i am. if any parents or students have questions about p.i. feel free to email me at mofojo587@yahoo.
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i too was a former student. last i heard a few weeks ago this program was shut down. its for the best the 8 months i spent there were very traumatic. in the end i walked out of the program and was homeless for 3 days on the beach with no money, while the staff talked with my parents back home telling them that i was mentally un-stable and needed to be committed if i went home otherwise i would be in jail or heavily using drugs in a week.
i was sent a plane ticket after that and went home and did not go crazy, or go to jail and was drug free and going to school.
personally i believe that this program is liable for neglect and many other things
we were served rotten milk, and nightly we would find cockroackes in our beds and bathrooms. constantly becmoing ill with diareah and fevers. a few months into the program i contracted parasites and was bleeding internally. when I requested to go to the doctor i was told by my therapist that i had better not be faking ilness to go and eat food in hermosillo, where the hospital was located. i was literally "shitting" blood excuse the vulgarity, and it took 2 days to arrange a trip to see the doctor
some nights staff would force students to sleep outside in the vida house compound on the ground. 3 times while i lived in that house we found coral snakes, which are very poisonus slithering through the house. these kids were put at risk.
Often times water would go out at the house, for many days at a time. you could not go to the bathroom because the toilets were filled to the brim with fecal matter. where it sat untill the water came back on.
this is the stone cold truth of the matter.
you can question me about it if you would like, and as much as i considered certain staff mambers to be friends i am glad that the program was shut down.
feel free to e-mail me about this if you would like to discuss this further. i hope that this company is sued h onestly because some of the things that happened in that program absolutely horrible
zippoz1@yahoo.com
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Was it just beyond their rational ability to consider putting up a damn outhouse? Where did ya'll go in the interim?
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I went to Positive Impact for almost 17 months and left the program in December of 2003. I loved the program and would recomend it to all. The people who have written bad stuff regarding the program just didn't put in any work to get something positive about. It is obviuse none of you are living your truth, that is if you even worked to get one. I also heard it got shut down and am very saddened. I had plans to go back and vist last month, but apon hearing this news I decided to postpone. As far as cockroaches go, they are everywhere in mexico. If you go there for vacation you will find them. The staff or residents did not put them in the beds or bathrooms. It would be like moths or spiders in your house. They are just there. I am not going to deny the milk was sometimes rotten, but it was always trown away and replaced with good milk. During the times I was there, I never noticed anyone having to go days without using the bathroom. Sure the septic tank would sometimes fill up, but it would be drained as soon as it was noticed. It also happened very rarley. The water only went out once, for a few days because the town was fixing plumbing underneath their streets. It had nothing to do with the program and my entire stay we had bottled water to drink from. The students who slept outside of vida house did it because they did something they weren't supposed to do such as running away from the program, which if one is under the age of 18 is not allowed. It is true that every once in a while there were snakes found, but they were always taken care of in a profeesional manner. The people sleeping out side were watched very carefully by the staff. Positive Impacts first priority was "health, saftey, welfare. That came before anything else. It was such a help to me in my life, that there are times I wish I was still there. It sounds like I am someone who became hooked on the program and am not independent on my own, but rather it is different. I had a family away from home there. People who would underdtand me at all times and when I had rough periods they would help me get through them. I met friends who can never be replaced. My times at positive impact will never be forgotten. I am greatful for the program and greatful to all the people who helped me along the way. For those of you who are wondering what my truth is; I say to the top of my lungs and from my heart: I AM POWERFUL. Thanks to all for listening. My name is Brandon and I can be reached at Powerfulismytruth@hotmail.com
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On 2005-08-08 02:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I went to Positive Impact for almost 17 months and left the program in December of 2003. I loved the program and would recomend it to all. The people who have written bad stuff regarding the program just didn't put in any work to get something positive about. It is obviuse none of you are living your truth, that is if you even worked to get one. I also heard it got shut down and am very saddened. I had plans to go back and vist last month, but apon hearing this news I decided to postpone. As far as cockroaches go, they are everywhere in mexico. If you go there for vacation you will find them. The staff or residents did not put them in the beds or bathrooms. It would be like moths or spiders in your house. They are just there. I am not going to deny the milk was sometimes rotten, but it was always trown away and replaced with good milk. During the times I was there, I never noticed anyone having to go days without using the bathroom. Sure the septic tank would sometimes fill up, but it would be drained as soon as it was noticed. It also happened very rarley. The water only went out once, for a few days because the town was fixing plumbing underneath their streets. It had nothing to do with the program and my entire stay we had bottled water to drink from. The students who slept outside of vida house did it because they did something they weren't supposed to do such as running away from the program, which if one is under the age of 18 is not allowed. It is true that every once in a while there were snakes found, but they were always taken care of in a profeesional manner. The people sleeping out side were watched very carefully by the staff. Positive Impacts first priority was "health, saftey, welfare. That came before anything else. It was such a help to me in my life, that there are times I wish I was still there. It sounds like I am someone who became hooked on the program and am not independent on my own, but rather it is different. I had a family away from home there. People who would underdtand me at all times and when I had rough periods they would help me get through them. I met friends who can never be replaced. My times at positive impact will never be forgotten. I am greatful for the program and greatful to all the people who helped me along the way. For those of you who are wondering what my truth is; I say to the top of my lungs and from my heart: I AM POWERFUL. Thanks to all for listening. My name is Brandon and I can be reached at Powerfulismytruth@hotmail.com "
Sounds like a typical programmie. It's never the program's fault, right? :roll: even when they make kids sleep outside, give kids rotten milk to drink, and do nothing about the cockroaches problem. Oh, of course none of this is the program's fault, hell no. And any ex-prisoner who dares criticise it is only doing that because they "didn't work their program". Riiiight. :roll:
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Have you even vistied positive Impact?
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i recomend going before critisizing. It offends me.
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On 2005-08-08 03:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-08-08 02:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I went to Positive Impact for almost 17 months and left the program in December of 2003. I loved the program and would recomend it to all. The people who have written bad stuff regarding the program just didn't put in any work to get something positive about. It is obviuse none of you are living your truth, that is if you even worked to get one. I also heard it got shut down and am very saddened. I had plans to go back and vist last month, but apon hearing this news I decided to postpone. As far as cockroaches go, they are everywhere in mexico. If you go there for vacation you will find them. The staff or residents did not put them in the beds or bathrooms. It would be like moths or spiders in your house. They are just there. I am not going to deny the milk was sometimes rotten, but it was always trown away and replaced with good milk. During the times I was there, I never noticed anyone having to go days without using the bathroom. Sure the septic tank would sometimes fill up, but it would be drained as soon as it was noticed. It also happened very rarley. The water only went out once, for a few days because the town was fixing plumbing underneath their streets. It had nothing to do with the program and my entire stay we had bottled water to drink from. The students who slept outside of vida house did it because they did something they weren't supposed to do such as running away from the program, which if one is under the age of 18 is not allowed. It is true that every once in a while there were snakes found, but they were always taken care of in a profeesional manner. The people sleeping out side were watched very carefully by the staff. Positive Impacts first priority was "health, saftey, welfare. That came before anything else. It was such a help to me in my life, that there are times I wish I was still there. It sounds like I am someone who became hooked on the program and am not independent on my own, but rather it is different. I had a family away from home there. People who would underdtand me at all times and when I had rough periods they would help me get through them. I met friends who can never be replaced. My times at positive impact will never be forgotten. I am greatful for the program and greatful to all the people who helped me along the way. For those of you who are wondering what my truth is; I say to the top of my lungs and from my heart: I AM POWERFUL. Thanks to all for listening. My name is Brandon and I can be reached at Powerfulismytruth@hotmail.com "
Sounds like a typical programmie. It's never the program's fault, right? :roll: even when they make kids sleep outside, give kids rotten milk to drink, and do nothing about the cockroaches problem. Oh, of course none of this is the program's fault, hell no. And any ex-prisoner who dares criticise it is only doing that because they "didn't work their program". Riiiight. :roll: "
Have you ever been to Positive Impact?
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I give a rats ass. I dont care how many programs you have worked for. Dont send your kids there, but dont bash it. There is no need.
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you bashed them saying who gives a rats ass whos has visited Poitive Impact. I care. i went there and had agreat experience.
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Anyone with an ounce of sense in their head knows sending someone to a program in another country is a
BAD IDEA. Why? Think about why the program has "outsourced" itself. Cheap, unskilled labor? Probably. Corrupt politicians? Probably. More lenient regulations - that probably arent enforced? Probably. Bigger margin of profit? Probably. Youre not making toasters or stuffed animals..... Its your child. Look at the case where the teenager disappeared in... duh, Aruba? Mom is having to lean on the authorities pretty hard to get answers.
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Tge answwer is yes. Please get a life. You must live pathetically!
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yeah why
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I am done with this. This will be my last response. Go look in the mirror and say why do i live such a bad life. Why am I so unhappy and a loser in life. I am no longer going to respond to your stupid comments. I am going to be the bigger man. Bye
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Positive Impact was a great place. It chnaged lives like no one would understand unless they lived it. Thanks to John Anderson, Curtis Washington, Lou Vaughn, Carol Rosenberg and the rest of the staff. Thanks to all the life coaches. I miss everyone who was there when I was. I hope you are all doing well. Thyanks again to zkino and Positive Impact.
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i would like to say that to the best of my knowledge positive impact has been shut down. i am a former resident who posted a few pages back, zippoz1@YAHOO.COM is my e-mail..
i returned to bahia de kino on a road trip through meixco and talked with some of the staff and found out about many of my former comrades. it is true that one of them killed himself, R.I.P eric. and that some of the people i went in there with were doing not so well, and others were doing great.
i still dont know what to thikn about it, i think that there were un-safe practices in quite a few ways, and my head is sure as hell messed up from it, i konw that i have some ptsd, for a while i wouldnt and couldnt sleep at home without a loaded air gun or a knife under my pillow or clutched in my hand.....
one thing after the progam got shut down i tried to mail my therapist lou many many times with no response. but when i did go down there they offered me materials and kids from the program to come out and help me with my old comunity service project that i had completed in 2001. I built some palapas in old kino, shade shelters, and with their help and the help of the staff, and residents we managed to fix them up and paint them again.
in the end i dont find any fault with my therapists, but with the program itself and only with a few of the un-trained staff that were working there, and the administration and running of the place.
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I am also a former resident of positive impact. I was in the program for about 17 months, then stayed on working as a volunteer and later as a paid employeed. Sorry if that compromises my credibility with some of you guys.
To validate some of the negatives that have been brought up, when I finally left PI in December of 2002 I was disillusioned with the program. A significant part of my desire to stay and work was a desire to give back to the program, but working as a staff member enabled me to see a world which had been left more or less hidden from me as a resident, and I was disturbed by priorities which often seemed more business-oriented then people-oriented. But that does not change the fact that Positive Impact, at least from what I saw both as a resident and as an employee during the time I was there, was never anything like Casa by the Sea or similar programs, and it also does not change the fact that many young men, including myself, benefited greatly from having been part of the program.
There is one staff member I remember who restrained a resident on highly questionable grounds in Oceanography house. He was fired shortly thereafter. Stuff like that, to my knowledge, almost never happened. More common staff problems were related to communication, inadequate training in the methodology of Positive Peer Culture, the Vorrath and Brendtro philosophy off of which the program was largely based, inadequate training in GGIs, lack of good interpersonal skills, etc. Let me say that again: staff who were verbally or physically abusive were, to my knowledge, rarely an issue, and certainly not program policy.
It is possible that things changed after I left. I do remember, when I returned to Kino for a brief stint about a year leater, being disturbed by the seeming lack of a positive peer culture and of staff and students who understood it. Yes, Positive Impact was a business, and yes, it had problems symptomatic of organizations where you try to mix money and humanitarianism. But once again, there are a number of young men, myself included, who benefited greatly from their stay there and who would defend the lasting positive impact that the program's intervention has had in our lives.
That's all I have to say. There is much more I could say about the program if you have further questions, but given the hostile climate on this board I will not be checking it for responses. If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me at elvenado2006@yahoo.com.mx
Cordially,
Ryder T.
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My son attended PI for 18 months. Although it was a great plan, the program was a total failure because of one person - Jon Anderson. During my son's stay, Jon began having an affair with his secretary from California (although his ex-wife also worked in the same office), paraded her around in front of the kids and parents, shacked up with her in an oceanfront mansion, and ultimately DISAPPEARED with her for SIX MONTHS leaving the entire place in shambles. THAT is why it shut down.
The premise of the program was good. The execution of it was a bumbling, commercial failure.
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Hi I attended positive impact aka P.I. I left a year or so before it closed and the best way i could describe the program is surreal. When i left it was almost like i had never been there, like time had just skipped over about a year. Thankfully I was sent to another program "high frontier" before i turned 18 which i still resented of course but at least it wasn't abusive and they seemed to have good intentions. Positive impacts on the other hand was a HELLHOLE and anyone who tells you different is a TOOL. At times it seemed like that place was actually intended to cause psychological damage. Which kind of fits with their slogan "balance through imbalance" or something like that i don't recall exactly. Someone mentioned Scientology earlier in the discussion and from what I've read about it the tactics used by both organizations they have a lot in common. there was a lot of emphasis on confessing and wallowing in your "shame" as they called it but this was delved into most deeply in the 4 different workshops which i never attended and oddly enough never even learned much about, despite my being there for nearly a year. No one ever wanted too discuss them and i never really pressed the issue. I did glean secondhand that food/sleep deprivation and confrontational tactics were used but i believe that you could quit if you wanted too. Although it would set you back at least 2 or three months in your schedule. In an earlier post the user named Brandon mentioned living your truth. Finding your truth was a big thing but i wont go into it because I never did the workshop but your truth is basically a slogan like "I am lovable or I am powerful" there were 5 or six variations of "I am something good." By the way, I remember Brandon I lived with him in oceanography house when i first came to PI and I recall that he was just about the biggest dork i ever met. Not a bad kid, just a weak person. If i remember correctly he once went through the twelve steps for "Loser-ism"... I kid you not. People like Brandon seemed to do well in the program and honestly, I hope hes still doing well. The whole point of the program was kind of like boot camp or a cult in that they tried their best to break you down psychologically mostly through "positive peer pressure" which is not a bad concept, but was completely perverted by the program. Anyways they try to break you down psychologically and then build you back up into a more acceptable person. This may have been a positive experience for some people as it seems to have been for Brandon. The problem is that some people don't break down so easily so they just keep leaning on you a little more and a little more until you bend or break. My personal experience was that they leaned on me pretty damn hard until they started doing things that were supposedly against their principles. Such as making me sleep outside (More uncomfortable than dangerous), not letting you speak to anyone, I recall once i was put on rations of water and a few tortillas a meal for about a week(once again it was uncomfortable but i was in no danger of starving to death or even becoming severely nutrient deficient). By far the most common form of punitive pressure was being sent to the "solutions room" which residents universally referred to as the "box". This was either a closet or, in the house i resided in most often, a concrete square maybe 5' by 5' with 4 concrete walls no ceiling and a entrance that did not have a door. In their literature (which they insist you read) the solutions room is supposed to be room where you are placed if you are being violent, aggressive, or just want some time alone. In reality it amounted to indefinite solitary confinement at the staff or the therapists whim. I was never once violent or anywise aggressive, i consistently complied with every request/order. I followed the rules as well as anyone else yet I still managed to spend at least a third, probably more like half, of my ten or so months sitting in the concrete box often for a week or more at a time (I think my personal record was about twenty days in a stretch). The reason for this being that i declined to participate in the step structure or discuss things of a personal nature. In my time there i basically did the same things that everyone else did i just kind of refused the "treatment" because i didn't appreciate the psychological manipulation. Thankfully I arrived there with 14 months till my 18th birthday so I knew it was just a matter of waiting it out and since no-one graduates before a year anyways they really had no leverage over me. Actually they got frustrated and John Anderson personally discharged me 4 months early which as far as i know is the only time that had ever happened. My parents lined up another, more civilized, school (The High Frontier) for the remaining four months. Altogether I think my Experience there was extremely unhealthy for me psychologically. I definitely left more damaged than when I came in. I don't think that the therapists had bad intentions and some of the local staff were great people; but there was no accountability, almost no contact with the outside world, and the whole program was based upon a loose amalgamation of pseudo-psychology and second rate philosophy. From what I've heard, this was not the worst program out there. Nevertheless they did things that were psychologically damaging, not to mention morally wrong.
P.S. I'm not mad anymore. But on the off chance that I run into John Anderson, I will not hesitate to beat him severely.
P.P.S. My names bobby Id love to hear from anyone who went to P.I. with me. Yeah even you Brandon, you little weasel.