Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Elan School => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 01, 2004, 10:52:00 PM
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What was Ken like as a staff member at Elan.? I keep reading how he was an abusive mind fucking person, is there any truth to these rumors ?
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I was not in Elan while Ken was a staff member, so I cannot tell you about how he was then, but I can respond to how Ken is now. Ken has been there for me this year more than any of my friends, and his only reason is that he wants to see me succeed. He has recently helped me pull myself out of a really bad month long depression, and has helped me realize numerous things about myself that have made me a much more successful college student. I cannot imagine the man who I know ever abusing anyone, especially someone in need. Ken has had nothing to do with Elan since the late seventies. He runs a website for us, the Elan alumni, not for Elan. I ask of you to leave this man alone, because he has not harmed any of you.
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Nice try Dave Kaczorowski (Nazi) but you can't get the focus off of you that way.
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Why do you want to know?
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Becca you are lucky it turned out that way I believe .Zaretski was Allen's director at 6 .
If the therapies offered for Glenns good money and the directors that implemented the lunacy that for passe3d for therapy there, was on the up and up .
Then I would bet you That all the money that the Eagles ever made selling music that Allen would still be alive to day .
Allen was there because he had a problem with his brother being so famous.He told me that was one of the reasons he was there .
If only Glenn knew what went on there ,back in those days .I bet he would have been outraged.And Allen would have gotten the help from qualified people not from people that aspired to be shoe salesmen or were literally only qualified to be bus drivers .
Yes thats my opinion and I am glad that I am allow by ken to have that opinion.
I was truly saddened to read that Allen Frey had killed himself a little after leaving that hell hole .He was nice to me considering what I did to another resident .A real friend and a really good person....I mean really sad .
And Becca when you make a statement that he never harmed any of us . One day you might find out what happened to Jimmy S. At least I am alive to talk about, hopefully in a court of law ,as to what happened to me and in my opinion that preverted, pathological ,sociopathic freak.
And Becca quite frankly I certainly feel that I was harmed .I am truly glad you had a good experience again I think you were lucky
Matt
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yes that was my post ...the previous one
Does this make me a troll . Good God the stories I could tell I bite my tongue to really keep from just letting it rip about that old boy .
I mean I exzert such strenght to keep from going off . Like nobodies business .
Man o Man o Man the incidents that I remember .I mean the shit that went down in that hell hole would burn off both of a human beings ears .
You know better but I know him, steal your face right off your head (Jerry and the boys)
Same old Rat in a drain ditch ,caught on a limb you know better ,but I know him......
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There are damned good reasons why society dunns dirty old men hovering around little girls.
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P.M. For the record I have emailed you my work cell phone number .It goes with me everywhere ,because of my job i am on call all the time .
I say what I mean and I meant what I said .It is now on you ,I trust you will respect my wishes .
thank you
Matthiam
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Plenty of people have coroborated some pretty horrific events. Matt seems to be one of the few (but not the only one) to notice that Ken was one of the "adults" in charge at the time.
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can anybody out there who was at elan when ken zaretzky worked there corroborate any of matts wild accusations? or does anyone who was at elan when ken worked there have thier own story that at least one person besides them was privy to of ken abusing anyone?
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ken can
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and nobody else noticed these abuses besides you matt? in 30 years nobody, besides you of course, has found them to be important enough to mention to anyone?
there is something here that just doesn't ring true.
i'll ask again.
besides matt who has secret knowlege of these abuses that not on of 200 other people there at the time seems to have ever mentioned or remembered and of course ken, can anybody out there who was at elan when ken zaretzky worked there corroborate any of matts wild accusations? or does anyone who was at elan when ken worked there have thier own story that at least one person besides them was privy to of ken abusing anyone.
anyone out there who has ever seen ken zaretzky abuse anyone as a staff member at elan or anyone who can corroborate any of matts wild accusations please say so. nobody has in 30 years. this is your chance.
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On 2004-04-02 20:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"can anybody out there who was at elan when ken zaretzky worked there corroborate any of matts wild accusations? or does anyone who was at elan when ken worked there have thier own story that at least one person besides them was privy to of ken abusing anyone?
"
Can you find anyone who attended Elan while you (ehrrr... I mean when Ken) was on staff who didn't wittness and/or experience some pretty fucked up shit going down on his watch?
For three days after death, hair and fingernails continue to grow but phone calls taper off.
-- Johnny Carson
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Can you find anyone who attended Elan while you (ehrrr... I mean when Ken) was on staff who didn't wittness and/or experience some pretty fucked up shit going down on his watch?
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Nobody snapped a poloroid of OJ swinging the knife.
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is your question am I ken Zaretzky?
yeah, so what?
what i asked in response to a specific set of accusations that I am quite tired of is ""can anybody out there who was at elan when ken zaretzky worked there corroborate any of matts wild accusations? or does anyone who was at elan when ken worked there have thier own story that at least one person besides them was privy to of ken abusing anyone? "
I'd love to hear someone answer that.
as to your question about "my watch" nobody will ever appear, besides matt hoffman who seems to know things nobody on earth besides him knows, and say that they were abused in any house that i was in control of. the reason why nobody will do so is because nobody was ever abused in a house i ran while i ran it, at least not that i ever knew of.
as to me being an 'adult in charge' elan was my first job. I joined the staff when i was 17, i left when i was 21 to 23 (i'm really not sure) if you want to call that an "adult in charge" feel free. what I saw me as at the time (and still do)was a young guy who cared about people and tried my hardest to help them and to treat them well given my experience and substance at the time. The only way I would change that from todays perspective is i would use the word "kid" instead of "young guy".
As far as how "in charge" i was 30 years ago. I am truly flattered by matts statements about how i was a wheel at elan, but i was a pretty minor player. in addition to joe, david eldert (who matt's forgotten) jeff, marty and peter...also in front of me about a half dozen other directors. My "peers" would have been eddie freedman, eddie walsh, ronnie evans, john brakey, niel saxner and brian katcher. Sorry but i just wasn't all that important then.
anyway, i don't want to keep posting here. i don't consider this an especially friendly place.
if anyone can corroborate anything, anything at all matt has said or if anyone out there has any first hand story that can be corroberated of me ever hurting or abusing anyone at elan please say so and i'll apologize. otherwise just let it drop because it never happened.
thats my challenge, thats why i'm here tonight. either put up or let it die.
i'll check here monday or tuesday to see if anybody has anything to say that they haven't considered important enough to mention ijn three decades. or if anyone can corroborate matts bizarre stories.
i think i'll to bed now.
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Kudos, Ken, for (finally) copping to your own name! Really, this is a breakthrough!
So... what was the name of that girl who got wrapped up like a mummy and tossed into the lake? Was that the same girl who got burried alive? And did somebody dig her up before she died? I'm guessing they did. But there are some people who were little kids then and who really need confirmation that it really was all just theatre.
Now, will you end this play by having an attack of scrupples and putting these old nightmares to rest? Or will you leave as your legacy the putrid image of you casting about for cover from your imaginary onslaught of persecutors?
Just be a decent human being now. It's not really that much to ask.
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And, BTW, who's Jimmy S.? Any idea what Matt might be talking about?
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Ball less wonder bag headed fool you flatter me by saying that i have made wild accuasations
I did not know that you lived in Idaho oh I digress
If I remember correctly I believe that i have merely stated my opinions as pertaining to that ... not as a matter of fact that...
If anyone out there knows where Scott Blair might be found please let him know that I would like to speak with him .
he is someone that could be of assistance to my ball less bag headed wearing fool .
It is just like how could elan get away with such horrible and sick brutal abuses for so long .It takes a book written by Maura Curley that even though the names have been changed (in the first 7 chapters) that from the incidents described I knew those people ,to start exposing elan for the shit it pulled on decent human beings
Who slams the book people that don't for what ever reason want the truth about elan to be exposed .
Mybe our ball less bag wearing fool is kenny and he misconstrues my opinion with his reality .
Maybe they are worried that people are coming forward and therefor they have to convass to see what is out there .
Tom H. is another fellow that could be of assistance to balless . Any ways I don't want to waste any more of my time on this .To my ball less and bag wearing old boy fool just be patient your time is going to come .
Maybe my opinions strike a chord of fear of the truth then you really should keep that bag on your head ,naw I doubt its kenny he is not that stupid or is he ?
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you will apologize ....no no I want to see you got to prison along with kruglik ,gottlieb and mccann and no i have not for gotten Dave eldert (I thought he was dead )
First off if it is kenny tell us the story as to why you were pulled back in . Scott knows remember when he banned you from speaking to to new residents ..I do remember what he called you yeah Scott Blair he called you a sick fuk And why would that be kenny ?Scott Blair knows Remember what you told me as to why and that if I told anyone you would deny that you told me that ..
Remember when I attempted suicide it was partly because of the reason that you told me you were pulled back in . Made me realize that elan was a dark evil place . remember how I stopped talking to you and avoided you like the plague .
Remember Scott He was a nice person You were an adult we were kids . Don't try to belittle your involvment as to your participation in elan and its game remember the boat kenny I know you do .Come on you think about old boy it will come to you .
And you are going to apologize ....No kenny hopefully you will go to prison along with kruglik,gottlieb and mccann . If this is really kenny which I doubt and really I feel gross just thinking that i am talking to you .
It must really suck to carry all this guilt around for all these years and then to be reminded of it constantly .You make me sick
In my opinion you are a true pathological ,prevert and you make me nauesous,know your time is going to come .
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that previous post was mine ...You will apologize !!!!!!!! you have got to be kidding me .... In time kenny in time there will be people that will testify and no you will hopefully go to prison for a very long time along with your buddies . Just a matter of time finding Scott Blair .
just simply mind boggling to the nth degree
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that previous post was mine ...You will apologize !!!!!!!! you have got to be kidding me .... In time kenny in time there will be people that will testify and no you will hopefully go to prison for a very long time along with your buddies . Just a matter of time finding Scott Blair .
just simply mind boggling to the nth degree
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Hey Matt I was at that very same Gm for J.S. and if my memory severs me right I think... no I know Ken had nothing to do with it.Now dont get me wrong it was without a question one of the sickest things I seen go down at Elan, but it took place in 3 and Ken wasnt staff at that time. If Iam correct Jeff and Joe himself ran that GM and I just recently found out the reason why it was so terrible but wont go into that here.
Call me one of the lucky ones but I can honestly say Ken never did anything abusive to me...
ps. Allan was a very cool guy we were tight It was sad to hear about him...
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On 2004-04-01 22:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Nice try Dave Kaczorowski (Nazi) but you can't get the focus off of you that way. "
You're busted Ken, I see you try to come in here and focus other topics on other people to avoid confrontation, the thruth of the matter is "You are the focus right now" and there is over 3 pages to prove it.
"
Anonymous
Unregistered User Posted: 2004-04-02 21:21:00
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is your question am I ken Zaretzky?
yeah, so what?
what i asked in response to a specific set of accusations that I am quite tired of is ""can anybody out there who was at elan when ken zaretzky worked there corroborate any of matts wild accusations? or does anyone who was at elan when ken worked there have thier own story that at least one person besides them was privy to of ken abusing anyone? "
I'd love to hear someone answer that.
as to your question about "my watch" nobody will ever appear, besides matt hoffman who seems to know things nobody on earth besides him knows, and say that they were abused in any house that i was in control of. the reason why nobody will do so is because nobody was ever abused in a house i ran while i ran it, at least not that i ever knew of.
as to me being an 'adult in charge' elan was my first job. I joined the staff when i was 17, i left when i was 21 to 23 (i'm really not sure) if you want to call that an "adult in charge" feel free. what I saw me as at the time (and still do)was a young guy who cared about people and tried my hardest to help them and to treat them well given my experience and substance at the time. The only way I would change that from todays perspective is i would use the word "kid" instead of "young guy".
As far as how "in charge" i was 30 years ago. I am truly flattered by matts statements about how i was a wheel at elan, but i was a pretty minor player. in addition to joe, david eldert (who matt's forgotten) jeff, marty and peter...also in front of me about a half dozen other directors. My "peers" would have been eddie freedman, eddie walsh, ronnie evans, john brakey, niel saxner and brian katcher. Sorry but i just wasn't all that important then.
anyway, i don't want to keep posting here. i don't consider this an especially friendly place.
if anyone can corroborate anything, anything at all matt has said or if anyone out there has any first hand story that can be corroberated of me ever hurting or abusing anyone at elan please say so and i'll apologize. otherwise just let it drop because it never happened.
thats my challenge, thats why i'm here tonight. either put up or let it die.
i'll check here monday or tuesday to see if anybody has anything to say that they haven't considered important enough to mention ijn three decades. or if anyone can corroborate matts bizarre stories.
i think i'll to bed now. "
Congrats On coming forward Ken, this post was intially made by myself in an attempt to find out why people are always slandering you. My personal feelings about you Ken were you were a nice person and certain people were out to shit all over you for some odd reason's. Your first response was to get the focus off of you and get it focused on someone else, thatys a no no Kenneth, you need to confront this issue's Kenneth and find out why so many people HATE you.
Remember Kenneth, I am your FRIEND.
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Hey Annon Are you refering to Jennifer S 's gm in three the main house in poland springs .
Then I must know you and you me .I don't think that I have said that ken was involved with her gm .ken was pulled back in for a in my opinion rather sick and bazarre incident .From his own mouth ....but that is neither here or there ...a totally different incident .
Jennifer was perpetually abused by elan I remember her getting like 15 gm' s before they sent her back to Ill. Jerry N. has aluded that she was basically tortured on that trip .
did you participate in giving the assistant director at 6 a hair cut for yelling at the nightman for knives being left out .
The assistant director while I was in the diningroom of 6 proceeded to yell that matt hoffman could have come in here and cut out someones liver and the freak used a piece of liver to make his sick point
remember that little freakshow kenny. Quite a few people participated in that little haircut . He never apologized .
Naw I did not say or post that kenny had anything to do with Jennifer he was an eager participant in her general meetings . I liked Jennifer she was nice could sing and play the guitar and then they whacked her on drugs .
kruglik gottlieb especially gottlieb liked to abuse jennifer .
Anyone know where she is ?
Are you Mary ? or Diane pray tell who ?
No I won't give kenny credit for abuse that he did not do . The liver thing was kenny . and I would dare him to deny it .
therfor kenny thats a fact that has shattered your never abused anyone ever bullshit .
put that in your denial pipe (kenny ) and choke on it
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God I am so tired of this computer .I get bumped off more times just trying to post .
Yes the above post is mine the story about the liver and a haircut
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Well, then call me stupid Matt...You can bet your insane ass it's me.
I came back here tonight because I said I would. If you all will remember a few days back I made a challenge to anyone on earth to provide a first
hand account of me abusing anyone when worked at Elan 30 years ago when I was a kid.
As I had said, in 30 years nobody, not even once has ever said that I was even the slightest
bit abusive to anyone. The reason for this is I never was in the entire time I worked there.
Of course, Matt hoffman has made some rather bizarre and wild statements about me. ONLY Matt.
Apparently, at an Elan that had around 200 residents Matt Hoffman and only Matt Hoffman was
privy to "abusive Ken". Of course nobody, not one person in 30 years has ever corroborated a single word of what Matt has says. Why? because the only place these bizarre things happened were in Matt's very twisted and ill mind. I digress, I'll hold off my discussion of Matt Hoffman's pathology until my final installment Thursday nite.
The point is nobody, not one person came forth with either a first hand account of me ever abusing anyone while I was on the staff of Elan, and not one person came forward to corroborate a single word of Matt Hoffman's wild and bizarre accusations. just like the last 30 years. Not one.
What did happen was Matt rolled out a few more crazy stories about things that happenerd nowhere but in his rather sick mind. The wildest (and most creative) of them was about an assistant director (presumeably me) getting a haircut in the dining room at Elan Six with liver. Matt was never a resident at Elan Six, Assistant Directors didn't get haircuts (vr's for the younger folks). Have any of you ever seen an Assistant Director get a haircut? He said that MANY people saw it.
If an Assistant Director got a haircut about liver in the dining room of one of Elans largest houses (e-6 was big) and MANY people saw it, wouldn't it have been mentioned just one time by one, just one, of the MANY people who saw it in the 30 years since it occurred? It hasn't.
So maybe i didn't allow enough time for these legions of people to come forward to expose how abusive I was 30 years ago. I'll extend my challenge to my final installment this Thursday nite. If anyone, anyone at all, has a first hand account of me being abusive to any resident, even one time while I worked at Elan when I was a kid 30 years ago. Further, if anyone has any first hand knowlege that will corroborate one word of Matt Hoffmans accusations, please post it here at fornits by Thursday.
I will be back late Thursday nite for my final installment here on Fornits. I promise to enlighten and entertain.
If anyone has the slightest doubt that I am Ken Zaretzky please read a post titled "It's Me" on the ElanAlum.com
message board.
Ken Zaretzky
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ken I would not call you stupid ...you have already done that for me .
What I do realize is that it seems that in my opinion that you are totally incapable of telling the truth , Which in my opinion is why I think you are a pathological ,meaning a bald faced liar .
You had a chance I guess a long time ago to take the other path .about and be a witness for people that in my opinion were criminally abused by elan .
you know that Maura Curley's book is true especially the first 7 chapters. your are quoted as saying that you thought ricci was a God.
It is funny to see how you say that you were a kid when you worked at elan .When you worked at elan ,in 6 you were an adult ,when you got pulled back into the program in the summer of 74 you were an adult .
It is further funny to see you write that you were not a big wheel and then see you go off about how a you were such a big asst. director and that big assistant directors never got haircuts (you did kennyoldboy) for the very reason using a piece of liver and knowing that I was sitting in the dr of six .
It further astounds me that you say there were 200 residents in that house .come on kenny that house barely had 65 people .
I was never in 6 ,kenny you make me laugh of course I was in 6 I did my re-entry in that house .
After all the physical and emotional torture that i went through in 2a there was no way they (elan and it's other henchmen )could have expected me to function properly in the real world .Hence keep me on the site . I imagine that ricci and all were worried that i would start talking about what happened to me in that hell hole,or what I saw go down in there.
As for being insane well kenny no thanks to you and elan and the other henchmen and the misguided therapy that was bestowed upon me ....yeah i was a hell of alot sicker when I left than i was before going in that hell hole
In fact kenny i repressed elan (call it disasociative amnesia ) you know a defense mec. Personally I found that that every time I talked about elan I would go into a depressive downward spiral and into suicide ideation .(sorry kenny just never did make it to the other side ..)Remember my suicide attempt in elan ,drinking a bottle of qwell (flea and lice) shampoo.Or is that another one of my stories .PLeeeaaazzzee
Some how I learned put elan in some place that really took a lot of energy (sub conscience) to keep there .everything was going along fine until I heard about elan on the news and then proceeded to read an article by AP writer Denis Lavois on sunday the 23 of jan. 2000.(pertaining to the Skakel investigation)[personally I believe he might be innocent ...i have my reasons ]
It was those words old boy,straight from ricci's mouth "why don't they let by gones be by gones ,the Kennedy family has suffered enough tradgey ,they have gone from camelot to DANTES INFERNO .
Those 2 little words kenny ,ricci's buzz words (i doubt he ever read any Milton ) were the ones that burst open the vault that I had stuck all of elan in and BUDDY that was pure hell .Therefor thank ricci when you see him ,for his need to see his name and the Kennedy's in print together woke the sleeping giant that was buried in my head .
Incidents that I had never thought of in 24 years peoples names and faces general meetings and of course the twisted lunacy that i experienced for therapy came out almost at once .
Yeah kennard you could say I was quite ill diagnosed as suffering from acute PTSD. It took about 5 months for the horrible memories to trickle down to a few a day .It took me about a year and a half to recover . (with the help of very good people
So kenache I challenge you to take a lie detector test and I would do the same ,oh shoot I forgot people that are totally incapable of telling the truth (my opinion of you ) can pass those things ...Can they pass truth serum though ,hmm I wonder .
Your supposed challenge to all is as useless as teats on a BOAR and about as small as what I saw on that boat . I would challenge you to truth serum but whats the point .
It amazes me that in 3 or so years of my posting the same stuff,that I heard ,saw and as God is my witness believe in my head and heart happen to me and other people . That you are just now getting aroud to calling me names .
kennath I am more sane than you will ever be .Thats just a fact .
you see my baldheaded fool I am a witness to other residents sick and twisted abuses . Implemented by the assistant directors and the directors at the hands of us the residents .An example is the crown of TAMPOONS that were dipped in katsup to look like BLOOD that a young girl had to wear on her HEAD. ...and you defend this place ....please
I can talk about the incidents of abuse with out the emotional attachment that use to send me in that downward sprial.
My life is so much better now that I don't waste all that energy to encapsulate the pain and suffering that is elan to me .
My last point zaretski,there is a picture of me from 1975.Holloween to be exact with another person's arm around me .kruglik took that picture and told the other person (who did not want to be in the picture with me ) just think what the long term pay out will be . And they said alright .Me in my holloween costume
kruglik put that picture in my file . I dare you to post it cause that would show us that you are working with elan in your smear campain against me .And have reached into my file which would be a big no no .
In essence kenny zaretski from me to you go outside and find a fire hydrant and place yourself over it and do as many squat thrusts as you need so that you may remove the inpaction of lies (that you spin) and then maybe just maybe the truth will start to come out of your mouth , Ah I 'm sorry I keep forgetting that in my opinion that you are totally incapable of telling the truth .
My wife tells me that by responding to your nausating self that I am feeding you pleasure .and kenny thats the last thing I want to do . your sickness escapes me .
You know there is a fellow that you call a nut case .His name is Art he use to work there at elan .He tells the truth about what went on there . This Man has stones and guts like nobodies business . I have great respect for some one like that .He can stand to tell the truth .
ken you can't handle the truth .So go back to your one sided I love elan site and quit trying to bait me cause I just ain't gonna respond .And remember I would love to talk to LAW ENFORCEMENT and would willingly take truth serum or a polygraph.
MH
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The post with the initals MH is mine ......I am sorry if i have used languages that offends normal sane people .It is obvious that in my opinion I have to deal with this ass in this fashion .
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perhaps if matt and ken were placed into the ring, the truth would out? no? yes? stupid solution, wouldn't you agree?
then someone please put an end to this childish feud. if anyone can corroborate any of matt hoffman's allegations, say it here, say it now. otherwise, matt, you must cool it, go away.. or both.
since you have not offered one shred of proof to anything you have said...what are normal rational people to think?
ken makes very good points which you have not addressed.
your credibility is fading fast.
it would appear that you have until thursday night to put up or shut the fuck up.
so far the score reads :
matt hoffman 0 / ken zaretzky 10.
and a comment about ken...ken is a mensche. ken walks the walk. the rest of you just talk the talk.
....a concerned citizen wishing for sanity to return to this board.
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No, it's a red herring. No points for you.
Look, I can not easily forget an incident where I took a fairly active part in some horrendous abuse. I reamed this kid out in front of group for refusing to cooperate with his treatment. Didn't realize till his sister got called on to yell at him that he wasn't being obstinate. He was not able to respond at all, let alone the way anybody wanted.
Had I been on staff instead of a client in Group, I would have left and, possibly, done something for the kid. I wasn't. Anything I might do to try to make it stop would only have resulted in my getting my ass kicked just like Bobby. So I started planning my escape. I didn't stay on for years till they finally kicked me off the property and I don't glorify the place today.
That's what I don't understand about you, Ken. I've heard and read enough about Elan to know that you just can't make this shit up. To many profound similarities, no matter the window dressing. So, how could you then and how can you now just... go along with it like nothing ever happened?
Legalizing drugs is far from a panacea for all the distress caused by drugs, but it will eliminate most of the profit and corruption from the drug trade.
--Nobel laureate, Gary S. Becker
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Hi me again I have a few questions about e-6? As I was there and no this isnt Diane or Mary but a peer of theirs.
I dont remember re-entry being there if I am right it was in poland springs, anyone else from six remember this?
Again Dianes GM I was there for that one too and Ken wasnt in the house at that time... It was wrong for them to do that to her and sick but agian at the hands of the others, Elan was in no way shape or form a good place but truths have to be told as they happened....
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the truths about elan are being told and have been told by many people on this board
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again...where is the proof?
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Ken, I was just looking over my logs and thought I'd do you a favor. Here, use this url. It should save you considerable time:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... tnG=Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&edition=us&q=zaretski+site%3Afornits.com&btnG=Search)Give me the youth, and Germany will rule the world.
--Hitler
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I've always hoped that I would never have to be ashamed of anything I did. I have tried to live
My live that way and for the most part I have succeeded at it. I know what I am going to say tonight.
I know that before I have finished I will be ashamed of it. I haven't been given much choice but I will
be ashamed none the less.
As I promised, this will be my third and final installment. I will first
re-outline the issue. Then I will recap what has transpired since my last installment.
Then I will give some brand new information and a fascinating perspective. Then I will be
done with this forever.
Constant recurring accusations have been made that I was abusive worked at Elan many years ago. These
Wild accusations have not been made by "legions" of people but one. In 30 years
Not one accusation has been made about me being abusive when I worked at Elan by anyone. Not one.
Except for the bizarre string of wild attacks by Matt Hoffman. In 30 years not a single person
has come forward with any first hand information that either accuses me directly of anything at all
or corroborates even one word of Matt's crazy, irresponsible and wild accusations. Nobody ever will because They never happened. On the other hand everything I say is corroboratable. Please feel free to check my statements out if you wish.
The issue here is not whether anyone was ever abused at Elan. It isn't was Elan good or bad. There is just one single issue. That is "was I abusive when I worked at Elan"? That has been addresses in vivid detail. Not one corroborated or corrobortable claim of me ever abusing has been made. Not one time in 30 years. None have been made on their own. None have been made when I asked for them, when I begged for them or when I have taunted and made fun of people to provoke them to produce a responsible accusation. This is because there aren't any. It never happened. It is a closed, dead issue.
The issue is not "was Elan good or bad?", it isn't "Did anything ever happen at Elan?". Those are interesting questions to some people I think. But not to me. To me the question is "Was Ken Zaretzky ever abusive to anyone when he was on the staff at Elan"?
That's the only question I am addressing here. Sorry. It has Ben quite clearly and convinceably answered.
One guy suggested that I change sides. I'm sorry, I have never been on a side. I'm not going to be on one now. I don't believe in sides.
Someone else posted a google link to some misspelling of my last name which turned up more of Matt's uncorroborated wild irresponsibly accusations.
So what? Someone said "Why don't you be a good person now"? Great question! I was a good person THEN. I don't have to redeem myself. I was a good person then,
I am one now, I have been a good person in between an I will continue to be. Matt said "We were kids, you were an Adult" while he was talking about events in 1973 and 1974. I was born in 1956 (September 3rd in case anyone wants to send a present). As most of us know September is the 9th of 12 months. It is at the
end of the year. In September of 1974 I turned 18. I was 17 during the first nine months of 1974 and the last 3 months of 1973, the first 9 months of 1973 I was 16. That may seem like an Adult to you Matt but to me that's a kid. Sorry, but thats just the math. I was a kid when I worked at Elan. Someone else said "Ken is a mensch". Thank you. I try to be, I will keep trying to be one. To other people who have sent supportive e-mails thank you very much. that meant a lot to me.
The last question that was raised that I feel is worth answering is "Why did it take Ken 3 years to defend himself against Matt's accusations?". Call it a mistake. I was trying to "take the high ground", to be classy. I believed that these accusations were too bizarre to dignify with a response. Actually I still do but I have
learned that some people don't deserve the high ground. That the high ground doesn't always work. I do think I have quite adequately defended myself. It is dead.
It is over forever. A word of warning. The next time someone makes an accusation like this against me make sure you can corroborate it. I won't "take the high ground" again. I learn from my mistakes. If anyone launches another series of bizarre, wild, untrue accusations agains me again they will find that they will be on the receiving end of a lawsuit within days. I hope this doesn't happen.
Now that I've answered all the questions that have been raised. I'll keep my word on exposing why I believe Matt Hoffman seems to "Make Up" these stories about me. You see, I don't think Matt is lying. He believes what he says. There are quite a number of "stories" that Matt tells that are mixed together. What I mean is stories that may have true parts, but have nothing to do with each other being woven together into one story with a different meaning.
For example:
Matt tells a story about Jimmy Shipplett.
Here's the true story:
Jimmy was a friend of mine, Matt knew him, but barely. Jimmy and john Brakey and I shared a trailor together for a while after i graduated. we used to shoot 22's in the back yard for fun. One time Jimmy and I got in trouble (Big trouble) for taking the pistols to a bar (Yes, I know, VERY stupid thing to do, we were 17). There was a group about it and Jimmy told the truth. I lied. This was a few weeks after I graduated. I ended up pulled back in for a few weeks. It was actually not bad for me at the time.
A few months later Jimmy Shipplett joined the Marines. He was was back about 8 months later. presumeably because he had been kicked out. I never knew why but just assumed it was
because he was too crazy (jimmy was known for that).
Around this time the staff at Elan five (which was in Auburn at the time) ad been suspended. Joe Ricci and I went over to Elan Five to be the staff (This basically meant I worked all day, slept there at night and did all the work. Luckily, it was just for a week. This was actually my first day on the staff of Elan.
Some time during that week or so I got a call from Joe telling me not to talk to the press and that Jimmy's girlfriend Cathy, had been arrested and that Jimmy had tried to bust into the Portland Police department, "guns a blazing", to break her out. The police had blown him away. Jimmy Shipplett was dead.
everything I outlined above can be corroborated.
Matt tells this story...:
Ken Zaretzky gave Jimmy Shipplett a gun and drove him to the portland police station where he was blown away because of evil ken.
Not true, but Matt believes it.
Matt says that he drank qwell shampoo because of pressure and abuse at Elan. He did it because of Elan. Everyone here felt pressure at Elan. Some also felt abused, How many drank Qwell Shampoo? No, I would say that Matt drank Qwell Shampoo because of Matt. He was predisposed to do something like that.
Just my opinion.
Here's the big one,,,,I will be ashamed of saying this after it's printed. But it's a decision I have made.
When Matt Hoffman was a resident at Elan 2A in the middle of the night he snuck up behind a young man named Robert Abrams and stuck a kitchen knife in his back.
This is ABSOLUTELY corroboratable and verifiable. This is the incident that caused the terrible shot down, gm's and people not liking him that Matt keeps talking about. Matt didn't do something wrong, he didn't break a rule. He snuck up behind a kid in the middle of the night and stuck a knife into his back almost killing him. The oxford and Androscoggin county sherrifs both wanted to have Matt arrested for attempted murder. Through Gerry Davidsons assertion that Matt was quite insane and agreements between robert Abrams parents, the the sherrifs departments and Elan, criminal prosecution for attempted murder was avoided. Granted, Matt hoffmans stay at Elan after that was I'm sure, quite far from pleasant.
Why did Matt do it? Matt will say it was because of pressure and abuse at Elan. Everyone here felt preassure at Elan and some felt abused. How many snuck up behind a young man in the middle of
the night and stuck a kitchen knife in his back?
Mathiam Cornelius Hoffman did. Nobody else.
Did he do it because of Elan? I think not. Otherwise we all would have. No, I would have to assert that Matt Hoffman stabbed Robert Abrams at Elan 2A because of Matt Hoffman.
He either did it because he wanted to or because he was so psychotic that he was compelled to by his psychosis. I have no idea which.
Matt goes on and on that he suddenly got all his memories back because joer ricci said two words on tv. Maybe thats true. Matts memories in that case came back quite jumbled and mixed up. Either that or he's lying. I have no idea which.
Presumeably, the reason why Matt had this "amnesia" was because of his elan experience. This could be true. After Matt stabbed someone his Elan experience was quite far from comfortable or pleasant. Matt says he was scarred for life by Elan. I really don't know if he was or not. I do know one thing for absolute certain. Robert Abrams was scarred for life by Matt Hoffman.
That?s it. I did what I promised I would. I'm not proud of it but it had to be done.
It's been a full week since i dared anyone to give a first hand account of me being abusive to anyone. All people have done is talk about other issues. There is nobody who can provide a first hand account of me abusing anyone when I was on the staff of Elan because I never did it. and in 30 years not one person (besides Matt) has said so. Nobody has come forward to corobborate one word of Matt's accusations. Nobody ever will. They never happened.
This issue is dead. It's over. It's closed. Of course, I expect a few people to go on and on. Matt Will. He won't be able to stop. he's believed his fantasies for so long he can't be without them. Art will. Art needs to feel important. He chimes in whenever my name comes up. I think that Art doesn't have much life of his own. By making himself the "guy who took on Ken Zaretzky" I think he must find some internal sense of importance. I have never met Art, i did have two or three telephone conversations with him though. I consider Art to be a rather pathetic character. He doesn't enrage me. I do find him somewhat annoying. I believe it's easier to just ignore him than to engage in his endless tit for tat. I will continue to do so. In the case of Ginger, I don't know her, I don't know why she does what she does and I really don't care. She doesn't know me either and that?s just fine. This conversation wasn't about Elan. It was about me and accusations that were being made about me. That conversation is over. I won't be replying to anything else written here. If anyone wants to talk to me ElanAlum.com is where you can do that.
Best Wishes,
Ken Zaretzky
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On 2004-04-08 20:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
The issue is not "was Elan good or bad?", it isn't "Did anything ever happen at Elan?". Those are interesting questions to some people I think. But not to me.
This isn't Elan. You don't get to frame the issues. The issue is whatever people want to talk about.
To seek out the best through the whole Union, we must resort to the information which from the best of men, acting disinterestedly and with the purest motives, is sometimes incorrect.
Thomas Jefferson Letter to Elias Shipman and others of New Haven, July 12, 1801.
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Sorry, I thought that was the right spelling, as this one doesn't turn up anything.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... %3Afornits (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&edition=us&q=Zaretzky+site%3Afornits)
If you didn't keep trolling, I doubt your name would ever even come up. No one talked about you for a week because nobody's interested.
Most of the talk lately has been about the upcoming documentary. And here you come trying, feebly, to toss out a live red herring. Honestly, I'm dissapointed. I sat down to see if anything really compelling had been posted here and remembered that Thursday night was the appointed hour to find out what Ken has to say. But it's got no umfph! No reall clincher.
BTW, how's Andysmom and what happened to her postings? Did she hold to the Elan way? Did her son return to her? Or have you lost touch w/ both of them.
Regardless, I'd like to know. Sounded to me like the kid was just taking a little time to clear his head and I hope the Program wasn't able to "help" her decide to "help" him some more.
I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves, it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others. Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.
--Abraham Lincoln
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Fornits, the place where you can visit sane people acting crazy, and crazy people acting themselves. All lead and supported, AND judged to be worthy crazies by none-other than a crazy bitch herself, Ginger Warbis. What a great place to come and discuss, heal, and right wrongs.
Heres the best excuse for fornits exsistence.
The world is already a dark and tragic place. What difference does one more dark and tragic website make?
If I had time to be Ill, I'd come to fornits more often and read the swill.
Ken, who cares what you did and didnt do? dont waste your time replying to the nameless faceless cowards that continuously seek vengance rather than resolve.
Fornits: a joke that has a much larger crowd laughing at it than it does laughing with it.
LIVE FOR TODAY!
Fuck off Elan, and all you stupid fucking alumni too. Hmm, what to do with people who DIDNT go to Elan...Ginger, go piss up your own tree.
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Oh yeah, ART. Fuck you. Get a life you fuckin drug addict piece of shit loser.
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I don't have the time to give this, in my opinion pathological sociopath freak a proper response .
I was not there in 73.Yes I did assault another resident .That is old hat .I have stated my reasons why I did it .I have posted quite extensively about the incident . I do feel and know from my many general meetings that if I had been caught by the law elan would have been shutdown .(LAW ENFORCEMENT WOULD HAVE KNOWN WHAT WAS GOING IN THAT HELL HOLE .)
I was in re-entry at six . I did not get out of that hell whole until 1976 ...july .the old boy was working at elan then in 6 he was an adult .I just can't do math like ken ....I was born in 1959 and just learned math differently I reckon.
ken has a side don't let him fool you .
MH
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Ken was a great guy, who took time and all he wanted to do was help people. He took him time and loved each and every student in their own way. He still is very dedicated to making a safe place for those who feel like they need a sfe place to recover. he is a brilliant man and a loving father. He is the target of a buch of bored creeps that have entirely to much time on there hands and way to much misguided anger.
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Geeze Art. I haven;t been to Fornits for almost 3 months now. Happen to be really bored today and thought I would visit some of the older website I use to come to. You're still at it? Are you employed? Do you have a life?
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Yes I'am an anonymous puss-eye.
I would personally sue you for your defamatory comments if I were Ken. Your libelous statements have not been corroborated by anyone who posts on these boards. You may not have the financial resources to pay a $100,000 judgment against you for your damaging statements, but it would cost you one way or another. It would damage your credit and it would show up on your credit report. This could affect your ability to obtain credit, getting a job and if f you do own property that could be attached. Ken could silence you once and for all when he repos your computer.
Bottom-line my friend ? LET IT GO. Hug your pillow, have a good cry whatever it takes.
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I hate it when people start talking about calling cops and lawyering up.That's what's wrong with this country.I prefer to handle my differences personally.
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Ben foster was a real asshole,who spent most of his time in the corner.One of the slimmest fucks I have ever met.His music sucks and he smokes weed six times a day.Sue me asswipe
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I'm flattered that you compare my intelligently written post to the writings of Ben Weasel. I am a former resident, 1985 ? 1986, and I post every now and again when I observe blatantly absurd ramblings of someone who is deeply in need of a hug.
You are learning. ?Ben foster was a real asshole? this is YOUR opinion. Free speech may protect that.
?who spent most of his time in the corner? this is a statemant of fact, but I wouldn?t consider it libelous.
?One of the slimmest fucks I have ever met.? This could be defamatory statement if you meant slimiest, but it would appear it is your opinion he was very thin?
? His music sucks and he smokes weed six times a day? A mixture of opinion and unsupported fact supplied by you. I can?t imagine that your statement would be too much of a concern if it were true. There is nothing wrong with the weedo amigo.
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I love the weed amigo,I was just sickened by Ben Fosters gay and foolish postings on Ken's board.He is probably the same skid he was only 37 and a looser all round.
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I WAS AT A MUSIC STORE THE OTHER DAY AND i FOUND A SCREACHING WEASLES BUMPERSTICKER IN A DOLLAR BIN. WEIRD
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I wanted to shut up but can't. Reentry was in poland. I was in 6.I could say alot more but I should leave. God bless you all. Ken was a good kid director by,the way. He was a child just like all of us.Was a silly friendly Director.not scary in the least.
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When were you in 6 ?and yes re-entry was in poland what years we might know eachother....
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Ken Had nothing to do with the sick shit that happened to the girl in the lake and I am the women who was the child who went through the tampon sick shit .He ahd nothing to do with that either.Poland spring's was sick and I have to speak the truth .have alway;s and will alway's.I had my problem's with ken but they were mine.Ken was never sick to me or anyone in our house.Rember people he went thropugh same as us.He was in charge of six and still a young man .TRUTH he was funny and very cool and never aboused anyone .He was not even scary.I hate lies.So let's get honest and yes he has a webbsite.In the old day's we were promised elan would alway's be there for us .The promise was never kept and alumni is the promise.We can alway's come home and be with our friends. That's it people real simple.Hope this clears up so many questions.Ken had nothing to do with any sick shit.
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6 was cool Di we got to leave the insanity of 3 behind us ....... Anyone else out there from 6?
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Ken was a molded individual by myself and Jeffery and was our number one staff.
Why you people sit here and badger him I will never know.
Elan needs more people like Ken so we can corrupt more kids to become mind fuckers.
Hi yuh yuh, hi yuh yuh
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Leave Ken alone. Look, ok, if you don't like Elan and want to go after it, I disagree with you, but I understand. Ken has not been a director at Elan for over 25 years. He runs a website, that's it, that is his entire tie to Elan. Look you people are discrediting yourselves when you go after a man who has nothing to do with the current state of Elan. Actually, I spoke to him recently, he says he could never work at Elan now, it would be way to frustrating for him.
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Are you suggesting Ken seduces troubled women through his site.
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Did I say that ? You fucking anon troll with no nuts...
Go make something outa nothing elsewhere asshole
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On 2004-05-06 09:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
Actually, I spoke to [Ken] recently, he says he could never work at Elan now, it would be way to frustrating for him.
Frustrating? How come? I keep hearing that Elan is tamer, gentler and less abusive now. No more rings, etc. Ken would find that frustrating?
Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)
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" It's that very condescending attitude that has many people upset with him.
Not to mention preying on someone who is upset and vulnerable to practice his own brand of therapy on.Young girls with emotional problems have no place in your personal theraputic community..... .just what i hear."
Fuck you asshole,don't insinuate shit like that if you don't have the balls to back up what you say
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will this never end?
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On 2004-05-07 05:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Are you suggesting Ken seduces troubled women through his site.
"
Yes this is true. Ken made an offer to a young female student that left elan 4-6 years ago only to fall prey to a herione addiction. Ken offered to counsel her free of chrge as long as she came to live with him in his house.
Now we all can use our imagination as to what could have been Ken's true intentions with this little junkie female.
The barely legal female turned down Ken's invitation and continued to use herione only to fall deeper into the grave that she had started to dig.
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You have got to be kidding.Man that's gonna piss Ken off I bet.
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OMG!
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Its all true, go ahead ask Ken. I'm sure he wont admit to his real intentions, But the girl told me this herself.
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If this is true, then why isn't the girl posting?
Also, more importantly, Ken is a married man with children. Don't you think his wife would leave him if he tried to bring a junkie into their home?
I agree with Art, Ken should track down ur IP and sue you.
If you want to go after someone use factual evidence.
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Now there is the most dumbest thing I have ever heard "Track down my ip and sue me", where the hell do you people come up with this shit.
Maybe the girl will decide to post here, I dont know. What about all the shit you written about Ken in the past? I see no factual evidence. Ken abusing students? where the fuck is that evidence?
PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH...
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peter moore ...why not sign your pathetic name to what is obvipously your post..hi yuh hi yuh hi yuh.
the only douchbag here is you hi yuh hi yuh. whom do you think you are fooling?
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On 2004-05-10 04:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"peter moore ...why not sign your pathetic name to what is obvipously your post..hi yuh hi yuh hi yuh.
the only douchbag here is you hi yuh hi yuh. whom do you think you are fooling?"
Why would I post something mean about Ken? I don't have anything against him. We're friends actually.
So hi-yuh hi-yuh yourself somewhere else, pal.
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On 2004-05-07 08:55:00, artman11111 wrote:
"balls i have ... i sign my name
info was only repeated from whats been read ... if your side of the street issnt clean.... get a
broom and sweep it up
art"
Funny how you get the ball rolling only to get upset when douchebags jump on the bandwagon.
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take it easy art, dont let this douche bag get your goat.. i am an anon poster but u all know i gots me some gentle genitals... :wave:
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Now now boys anyone for tea?
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I grew up in Oak Lawn around 99th & cicero.Grandparents lived in evergreen park and at 54th & seely. yikes Where you at?
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why are you flipping me off?
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What is that emoticon at the end of your post.It looks like he's flipping me off.Fuck you emoticon bastard.
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I may have anger issues.Thanx Elan
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Southside rules!!!!!
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::stab:: Now I feel better
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I'll trade you my elvis TV tray and my Nascar curtains for an LS1 and T-56 combo
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Elvis is the absolute King. Unlike many fans, I like many of his later songs, especially "If I Can Dream," "Suspicious Minds," "In the Ghetto," "Kentucky Rain," "Burning Love" and "Promised Land." Elvis rules.
My parents took me to Graceland for my 10th birthday. It was unbelievable! There's a picture of me standing by Elvis's pink Cadillac.
There will never be another Elvis.
I did an Elvis act for the Talent Show with Bob Pattison. He was "Good Elvis" and I was "Evil Elvis."
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Kiddie Kamp more like Hell on Wheels :exclaim: :exclaim:
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Just one minute Art not all of us on the southside eat nasty cheese and shop for elvis shit , hell i got class so much dont know what to do with it..... :lol:
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Y dont u put it back in ur BAG.
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HAHAHA... YES IT WILL, ::rocker:: SOUTHSIDE RULES
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On 2004-05-12 12:38:00, artman11111 wrote:
"Cant even relate to a "talent show" rafting trip" or any other "trip" as i never left poland except to have their crooked doctor examine me at a cost of 10g's.
Fuckin kiddie camp in comparrison to my time"
It was just a show put on by kids on the Elan 3 stage in front of three houses. Nothing special.
Not that I envy what I've learned of your stay, but the idea of a football team sounds interesting. Was it fun?
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Football was one maybe two years. Marty followed the team around in his Monte Carlo as they ran around the field. Guys got GM's for mistakes
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Really,was that at 6?I don't remember football,just softball.Softball games at elan 5 were the only thing I can remember that didn't completly suck.But that didn't last long because they split the house up.
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You got a contract for saluting the flag.Well that's fucked up.You american bastard.Did they hook you up with an uncle sam suit.I think I would have goofed on that shit.
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i'm sorry,3 rounds in the ring?Are you sure you saluted the flag or did you flip it off
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No shit general,was this while you were a res at 6.Did they draft players from other houses as well?I can't believe I've never herd of this.Did you play like Portland high.
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Geez, that sucks! Football should be fun. It's my favorite sport.
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I see,was this before feb 81