Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: confused on March 29, 2004, 01:55:00 AM
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I have a 17 yr son who for years has been so incredibly angry about some problems he has had since 3rd grade (OCD and Learning Differences). He feels stupid and ashamed and shy, he blames everybody else rather than take responsibility for his behavior. This last year he became bossy and tough. He'd cut off his nose to spite his face. Can't control his temper. 6' tall and can be scary. Acts entitled. He had become verbally and physically abusive (scary) and was acting like a jerk to anybody that was"'authority'" (parents, teachers, etc. I know that is teeenage boy stuff) But it's been out of control. Obviously very unhappy underneath it all. He holds it together much better away from us, lets it fly w/us. Bad for him and us. He's doing well in the wilderness program. But returning to his old life seeems certain he will fall back in old ways. I don't want to put him in a therapeutic school...they scared me before I saw this forum, now even more. He wants to finish school. Most regular boarding schools won't take him w/his past behavior and bad grades this year and his learning issues. He wants a boarding school where he can still have a life but get help w/ his learning differences. What would you all do if it was your kid?
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Don't let yourself feel guilty for trying to find help for your son, based on what you read here. Most of whats on this forum is the worst case scenario. You have probably learned enough to make a good judgment yourself, as to weather or not a situation will be abusive and neglectful. Use the knowledge you've gained and find your son an appropriate school an pay no mind to those who judge you for it.
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As you have already found out this is not the forum to find help. However, there is help. There is encouragement, and there is hope. Hundreds of thousands of kids have gone through what your son is going through. Most have made it through these turbulent teen years and have gone on to have successfull lives. However, those on this forum are not among the successful.
My suggestion is that you contact a professional Educational Consultant. The first question you should ask is, "do you do pro bono work?" If they say yes, then you know that they will be there for you and not just for your money. The second question to ask is, "Do you receive any reimbursement of any kind from schools?" Hopefully, they will be honest.
All people should get paid for their labor. Some educational consultants are only out for the money, but most have good intentions and are worth every penny you pay them. They are experts, and they have done their home work. Most educational consultants are child advocates. They truly love children and want to see the best for them. They know the schools that are good and those who are not. They will help you to have peace of mind.
Please, by all means do not listen to the hate mongers on this forum. Their only purpose is to torment you and to bring forth dispair. Dont let them win! Seek God's grace and wisdom. It is promised to those who seek it. It will come.
THERE IS HOPE. THERE ARE ANSWERS. DONT GIVE IN, GET READY TO RECEIVE YOUR ANSWERS AND KEEP YOUR FAITH.
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I've got some wisdom for you, fucker. *swings cleaver* :grin:
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On 2004-03-28 22:55:00, confused wrote:
What would you all do if it was your kid?
Well, in the context of these forums, when you say "wilderness program", I'm assuming you mean one of those that takes kids against their will. The first thing I'd have done would have been to not send him off to one of those in the first place. The next thing would be to be very skeptical of anything they say about how he's doing or what to do next. When I was more-or-less in his shoes, I would say whatever I had to to avoid punishment. "Yes, Dad, I'm just so happy now! I can't wait till I graduate and go on to staff!" The truth was ... quite different, but I would have been punished severely for telling him.
Anyway, have you tried just getting off the kid's back? If he's 17, he's less than a year away from legal emancipation by default. If he has a hard time w/ authority, have you considered that the people in authority over him might be wrong sometimes or even quite often? If getting away from you seems to be the best thing for him, then let him go. If you must drop a bundle of money in order to feel right about it, just drop it in an account in his name, suggest a tour or Europe or buy him a small business to run or something. We did not inherit this land from our ancestors, we borrow it form our children.
Haida
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On 2004-03-28 22:55:00, confused wrote:
"I have a 17 yr son who for years has been so incredibly angry about some problems he has had since 3rd grade (OCD and Learning Differences). He feels stupid and ashamed and shy, he blames everybody else rather than take responsibility for his behavior. This last year he became bossy and tough. He'd cut off his nose to spite his face. Can't control his temper. 6' tall and can be scary. Acts entitled. He had become verbally and physically abusive (scary) and was acting like a jerk to anybody that was"'authority'" (parents, teachers, etc. I know that is teeenage boy stuff) But it's been out of control. Obviously very unhappy underneath it all. He holds it together much better away from us, lets it fly w/us. Bad for him and us. He's doing well in the wilderness program. But returning to his old life seeems certain he will fall back in old ways. I don't want to put him in a therapeutic school...they scared me before I saw this forum, now even more. He wants to finish school. Most regular boarding schools won't take him w/his past behavior and bad grades this year and his learning issues. He wants a boarding school where he can still have a life but get help w/ his learning differences. What would you all do if it was your kid?
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Okay, now if he *wants* a boarding school, that's a whole different kettle of fish.
Visit a few, find one that is *not* lockdown, where you *can* visit him, and that actually has solid academics. According to the adults who have been in TBS's as teens, many of these facilities have *very* substandard educational programs.
You want to check curricula, check their library to make sure it's well-stocked, check their science lab and computer equipment, check their supplies of textbooks and school supplies. You also want to make sure their high school is actually accredited instead of "in the process" of pursuing accreditation. You want to make sure that the tests administered to the students are real tests crafted by competent teachers in classrooms on site, and *not* canned multiple choice pap from the textbook publishers or from some mail-order company.
If you can't find or afford a boarding school that meets those standards, you'd be better off getting grandparents or other relatives to take him in while he attends his local public school system's alternative school/night school program.
The reason is that the local public high school (any local public high school) will have certified teachers who likely write their own tests, good library facilities, acceptable lab equipment, and adequate textbooks reviewed and approved by a state or county approval process.
They'll also probably have certified special ed teachers. A *good* boarding school will also have those. A *bad* boarding school won't. If you can't find or afford a *good* boarding school, go for public school.
Oh, and I'm not generally a fan of public schools---it's just that, from the reports of adults who have been students at some of these TBS's, some of the TBS's are much weaker academically than your local public school's alternative school program is likely to be.
There's a huge difference between voluntary residential treatment of a patient/student who *wants* that, and involuntary residential treatment of a patient/student whose problems may not be sufficient that an objective and independent therapist would agree that he/she needs it.
Since your kid apparently *wants* residential treatment/boarding school education, try to find a *good* one.
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On 2004-03-29 09:03:00, Antigen wrote:
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On 2004-03-28 22:55:00, confused wrote:
What would you all do if it was your kid?
Well, in the context of these forums, when you say "wilderness program", I'm assuming you mean one of those that takes kids against their will. The first thing I'd have done would have been to not send him off to one of those in the first place. The next thing would be to be very skeptical of anything they say about how he's doing or what to do next. When I was more-or-less in his shoes, I would say whatever I had to to avoid punishment. "Yes, Dad, I'm just so happy now! I can't wait till I graduate and go on to staff!" The truth was ... quite different, but I would have been punished severely for telling him.
Anyway, have you tried just getting off the kid's back? If he's 17, he's less than a year away from legal emancipation by default. If he has a hard time w/ authority, have you considered that the people in authority over him might be wrong sometimes or even quite often? If getting away from you seems to be the best thing for him, then let him go. If you must drop a bundle of money in order to feel right about it, just drop it in an account in his name, suggest a tour or Europe or buy him a small business to run or something. We did not inherit this land from our ancestors, we borrow it form our children.
Haida
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Okay, Ginger has a good point in that what he says in the wilderness program about wanting to go to a boarding school may not really be what he wants but may be said to avoid punishment. You should probably bring him home and lay out his options and, when he can tell you *without* fear of punishment, see what he wants to do.
In case he really does want a boarding school, look for a good one (no lockdown, accredited, you've actually personally *seen* their library and lab equipment and computers and textbooks, special ed professionals on staff and on site full-time), but have other options available too, in case when he gets home you find out he really didn't want a boarding school after all.
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Oh, and another bit in response to "what would you do if it was your kid".
I have a relative who has a kid very much like yours, but a bit older.
What they ended up having to do was let their child go live with his grandparents.
Away from the stress of his own parents in adolescence, he didn't magically transform into a genius *without* a serious learning disability, but he *did* do better.
He eventually ended up moving in with his other parent and step-parent, but the flexibility of being able to live with whichever relatives he was coping with best did help him have more control over his own behavior.
He's never going to be magically "okay"---but he's as okay as he can be, for him.
I'm not sure, but I suspect he may be more disabled than your son is. The poor guy has essentially no hope of ever passing his GED. *Any* independence or functionality will be a victory.
There's a big difference between being the best and being *your* best.
His best is limited, but the way they're getting his best is with patience and flexibility.
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Well, that's it. I am not sending my child to any christian fundamentalist program that torments them into accepting Jesus as their savior. Nor will I send my child into the wilderness for a $20,000 wake up call when it would be just as effective and considerably less expensive to take the entire family to some remote outpost where we can sit around the campfire and talk about our issues after a hard day of hiking through the badlands of Utah. These therapeutic boarding schools I hear so much about are reserved for kids with a diagnosable mental illness and parents who can afford to keep them under lock and key under the guise of treatment. The same appears to be true of the rudimentary behavior modification programs which I don't believe any parent in their right mind would consider a viable option.
So thanks, Words of Wisdom. My teen may be a pain in the rear but you have convinced me to throw away the brochures, videos and dozens of emails I have received from these so-called teen helpers and to inform the educational consultant referred to me by a parent I met on the Internet, I won't be needing their services (sic) either.
What I will do is invite my 17 year old son to visit this forum and read the propaganda from both sides of the controversy surrounding the teen help industry. If he has any brains at all, he will quickly realize what I have come to understand about the industry and the kind of people who make a living *helping* troubled teens. They are predators of the worst kind and no matter how concerned a parent is about their child's attitude and behavior, keeping them a safe distance from these vultures is a step in the right direction.
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Don't give up so easily! The little fuckers need discipline! DISCIPLINE, I tell you. It's the only way!
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Have you checked into Oak Creek Canyon school in Arizona? THey don't have much in the way of therapy or behavior mod, but are focused more on learning differences from what I've heard. It's not good for troubled teens as they can leave at will.
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That sounds weak. DISCIPLINE is the key to reaping a healthy teenager.
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On 2004-03-29 10:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well, that's it. I am not sending my child to any christian fundamentalist program that torments them into accepting Jesus as their savior. Nor will I send my child into the wilderness for a $20,000 wake up call when it would be just as effective and considerably less expensive to take the entire family to some remote outpost where we can sit around the campfire and talk about our issues after a hard day of hiking through the badlands of Utah. These therapeutic boarding schools I hear so much about are reserved for kids with a diagnosable mental illness and parents who can afford to keep them under lock and key under the guise of treatment. The same appears to be true of the rudimentary behavior modification programs which I don't believe any parent in their right mind would consider a viable option.
So thanks, Words of Wisdom. My teen may be a pain in the rear but you have convinced me to throw away the brochures, videos and dozens of emails I have received from these so-called teen helpers and to inform the educational consultant referred to me by a parent I met on the Internet, I won't be needing their services (sic) either.
What I will do is invite my 17 year old son to visit this forum and read the propaganda from both sides of the controversy surrounding the teen help industry. If he has any brains at all, he will quickly realize what I have come to understand about the industry and the kind of people who make a living *helping* troubled teens. They are predators of the worst kind and no matter how concerned a parent is about their child's attitude and behavior, keeping them a safe distance from these vultures is a step in the right direction.
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Excuse me Confused. You are confusing me! You started one thread asking about Summit Prep School, saying your child is already in a wilderness program. You also said you were in contact with a school consultant. Am I to understand that a parent referred you to the school from a website? Will you please share that website. I wasn't aware that parents were referring to summit Prep.
There are many programs that do not use Jesus as the answer. Many realize that we are smart enough to find our own answers and help us be true to ourselves. If Jesus is a part of that, fine, but if not, no reason to force feed it.
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On 2004-03-29 09:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Oh, and another bit in response to "what would you do if it was your kid".
I have a relative who has a kid very much like yours, but a bit older.
What they ended up having to do was let their child go live with his grandparents.
Away from the stress of his own parents in adolescence, he didn't magically transform into a genius *without* a serious learning disability, but he *did* do better.
He eventually ended up moving in with his other parent and step-parent, but the flexibility of being able to live with whichever relatives he was coping with best did help him have more control over his own behavior.
He's never going to be magically "okay"---but he's as okay as he can be, for him.
I'm not sure, but I suspect he may be more disabled than your son is. The poor guy has essentially no hope of ever passing his GED. *Any* independence or functionality will be a victory.
There's a big difference between being the best and being *your* best.
His best is limited, but the way they're getting his best is with patience and flexibility."
:wstupid: :wstupid: :wstupid:
my son was labled "learning disabled" and was failing every class when he went to live w/grandparents in the summer last year. the school where he is has block classes (1 hr. 20 minute classes, 4 classes a day) its a public school, just a different format, for some reason, this regime worked for him. the kids get into groups after lecture and help each other understand. he has a construction and nursery (agriculture) class and two academic classes. He made this honor roll this semester.
Has anyone ever seen themovie stand and deliver?
the resources the kids are given have a great deal to do with whether they are academically sucessful or not (equipment and supplies, intelligent, emotionally-engaged teachers, counselors, etc.) stand and deliver is a true story. I can also relay another "expierment" where the same sort of thing happened.
seek resources. RESOURCES.
my son is not magically ok. he still has some problems he is working on in therapy but when you see progress is being made, it really feels good.
on residential or BM facilities:
check isaccorp.com's warning / red flag list. there is one that doesn't name the school or bm facility, but tells you what warniing signs to look for. do your homework. there are plenty of "bad" one's out there. I just read last week (its also on the court tv website) about a young man that hung himself at Luthren Services. the counselor went and got a camera to take photos of him hanging there. When the police arrived, the child was still alive, they got him down but he lapsed into a coma and died 4 months later. BEWARE. whether they are religously affiliated, etc. count only on your OWN research. I would not trust my son's welfare with a ED CON.
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You're better off not trusting ISAC either! Their RED FLAGS are directed toward many schools with a very high success rate, they just don't like them. Go figure.
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Directed? How so?
The legislature is to society as a physician is to the patient. If a physician ignored side effects of medications like today's legislators ignore the side effects of their legislation, the physician would be accused of malpractice. I accuse today's legislators (with rare exception) of legislative malpractice. Many of the ills that are so obvious in our society are a direct result of previous legislation. Their solution? More laws!
-- John A. Bennett, DO
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I'd say if ISAC dosen't like them there is a reason; although it may just be that they take escorted kids. I know they don't approve of excorting.
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I have read so much on so many different forums and spoken to so many parents, therapists and my ed.con. that it's becoming a blur i.e. "confused". But Summit Prep. was rec. by a parent who says they have liberal visiting policy and they "can" take their son away for weekends when they like and they have and he says it is fine. I'm still not necessarily "buying it" but I'm listening. I really do not understand how a CEDU school like NWA could be personally visited by a reputable ed. con., who is pd by me not them, and deemed "good" if it is so widely recognized to be so horrible...If it is their job to assess a place don't they have some idea what is going on? I'm listening to him too but I'm not nec. doing what he tells me.
As for relatives, there are no nice grannies living in Mayberry to take him in. One is in a nursing home, the others are dead. No divorce here so no stepfamilies either. He truly has burned his bridges w/local schools and most trad. boarding schools (and they are not all on East Coast w/ivy-covered walls). The local public school is bad news. We're working on it and we are not going any further w/o his agreement and input. Stop jumping all over me, I am not sending him to a CEDU school or a 12 mo. Emot. Gro. school that he can't ever leave w/o supervision. But, I am very curious about this whole business as I never even knew it existed til we got into this recently. Hence, my presence here. To learn. BUT, I have to say you are shooting yourselves in the foot to be so immature in how you "present" your arguments. Of course, you are "impassioned" and obviously totally freaked out by the abuse, etc. But, when you resort to yelling and cursing, mockery, sarcasm, etc are you really accomplishing anything? You sound like idiots. Who wants to take you seriously when you talk and act like that? I'm listening but it is really hard to get past all that. By the way, I am no right wing Christian fundamentalist. Ok? talk, don't yell...I can hear you better.
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On 2004-03-29 16:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You're better off not trusting ISAC either! Their RED FLAGS are directed toward many schools with a very high success rate, they just don't like them. Go figure. "
"High success rate"---that depends on how you define "success," doesn't it?
There's an interesting study out there about Academy at Swift River and depression.
The former students and parents that the researcher gained access to via ASR were almost uniformly positive about the school and how much it had helped them with their depressive symptoms, etc.
HOWEVER---objective measures of depression (symptom-focused diagnostic questionnaire commonly used by clinicians to measure depression in patients) demonstrated NO IMPROVEMENT.
So you had parents and student who claimed to have been helped, and may have genuinely believed they were helped---who were not in actual fact helped.
That study is one of very few even remotely scientifically robust studies on TBS's and their "success rates."
TBS claims of success rates and their testimonials are as meaningless as the pre-FDA patent medicine's medicine show testimonials and claims of success.
There's almost universally no disinterested, rigorous clinical studies backing up the claims of these places.
If these places were drugs, the FDA would be all over them like white on rice for unsubstantiated claims.
And that may be what we need for "treatment" methods. We may need an equivalent of the FDA where particular treatment methods have to submit the same kind of clinical studies as new drugs do to be approved, and so that the claims you can make regarding a treatment method's "success rates" have to be backed up in the same way that the claims for various drugs do.
I have no problem with new or experimental treatment methods. I just want truth in advertising so that they have to tell the customer up front that their "success rates" are *not* backed up by rigorous clinical studies.
I'm not a mental health expert--I wouldn't call anyone without a PhD in clinical psychology or an MD licensed psychiatrist a "mental health expert."
But I *do* have a bachelor of science in applied psychology from a nationally ranked university.
For me, ISAC's "red flags" pass the sniff test.
If you have questions about those red flags, though, I'd recommend that you *not* consult random people over the internet, anonymous or otherwise.
Instead, make an appointment with a licensed clinical psychologist in your area, take the list of red flags, and ask his or her opinion on whether those red flags seem prudent on their face---understanding that he or she can't give an endorsement on specific programs without actually investigating them.
Ask a qualified professional if those red flags make sense---and notice that *I'm* the one willing to stand my opinion that they *do* up to the light of the professional opinion of a random licensed clinician in your area---as opposed to the person touting "high success rates" who probably devoutly hopes that you *don't* take the red flag list to a licensed clinician for his/her professional opinion on whether they make sense or not.
That should tell you a lot, right there.
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Somebody mentioned Oak Creek Canyon School in Arizona? Any personal experience w/that school?
By the way somebody asked earlier if I had considered outpatient therapy at home for my son.. He has been doing that for years. As have I...and we have all been in family therapy. AND...guess what? We go camping as a family! Parents w/ troubled kids are not ALL selfish and too busy for their children...we've certainly made mistakes and hindsight is great....but who hasn't?
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Oak Creek Canyon School in Arizona is for kids having problems in school related to AD/HD. Of course there are other symptoms that the ADDer exhibits, anger, doing w/o thinking, not understanding there are consequences, high risk behavior. It's NOT for very troubled teens who have drug/alcohol/cutting/anorexia, etc. They do have therapy, however. Best advice is to call them as I don't have inside knowledge. Just what a mom I know has told me. In Arizona kids have to agree to this, which means agree to go and stay. Wish it wasn't so, but it is.
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On 2004-03-30 09:19:00, confused wrote:
"I have read so much on so many different forums and spoken to so many parents, therapists and my ed.con. that it's becoming a blur i.e. "confused". But Summit Prep. was rec. by a parent who says they have liberal visiting policy and they "can" take their son away for weekends when they like and they have and he says it is fine. I'm still not necessarily "buying it" but I'm listening. I really do not understand how a CEDU school like NWA could be personally visited by a reputable ed. con., who is pd by me not them, and deemed "good" if it is so widely recognized to be so horrible...If it is their job to assess a place don't they have some idea what is going on? I'm listening to him too but I'm not nec. doing what he tells me.
As for relatives, there are no nice grannies living in Mayberry to take him in. One is in a nursing home, the others are dead. No divorce here so no stepfamilies either. He truly has burned his bridges w/local schools and most trad. boarding schools (and they are not all on East Coast w/ivy-covered walls). The local public school is bad news. We're working on it and we are not going any further w/o his agreement and input. Stop jumping all over me, I am not sending him to a CEDU school or a 12 mo. Emot. Gro. school that he can't ever leave w/o supervision. But, I am very curious about this whole business as I never even knew it existed til we got into this recently. Hence, my presence here. To learn. BUT, I have to say you are shooting yourselves in the foot to be so immature in how you "present" your arguments. Of course, you are "impassioned" and obviously totally freaked out by the abuse, etc. But, when you resort to yelling and cursing, mockery, sarcasm, etc are you really accomplishing anything? You sound like idiots. Who wants to take you seriously when you talk and act like that? I'm listening but it is really hard to get past all that. By the way, I am no right wing Christian fundamentalist. Ok? talk, don't yell...I can hear you better.
"
Okay, I'm not yelling, and having seen my sister's trouble with her stepson, I can sympathize with your situation.
I understand that unfortunately your particular local public schools are horrible.
You may have no choice but residential treatment for this child, especially if he's violent.
A school with liberal visitation policies, uncensored mail, no lockdown, and good special ed. staff may be the very best you can do.
You may also want to look for halfway kinds of programs that will try to help him get a job to defray some of his expenses and focus on as much independent living as possible.
My nephew just didn't have the smarts to be able to figure out when he was bringing down trouble on himself or not, didn't have the memory to follow directions and help out with basic chores, and was unfortunately (forgive me for the unflattering comparison) a lot like a large dog with thumbs---he'd masturbate in front of small children or anywhere there wasn't an adult to tell him not to, he'd steal smaller kids' candy or money or any treat or money that wasn't locked up, etc. Punishment really didn't work---just made him sullen and angry and dangerous. He really couldn't be left alone--he needed constant supervision and needed trouble not to be available for him to get into.
Living in a house without smaller children removed a lot of his leeway to get himself in trouble, as did locking up anything you didn't want him to have, but he just is always going to need close adult supervision, and if his mom and stepdad weren't a two-parent family, there's no way they could have handled him. It's hard enough as it is.
So I know you, as a single parent, may be faced with a situation where residential care is the only way to keep your disabled son from getting himself into huge trouble.
It sounds like your son may not be as disabled as my nephew, but I do feel for you.
Just realize that there's a lot of bad residential care out there, and you can't tell the difference between good and bad by "if it costs a lot it must be good"---because some of the bad care costs an arm and a leg. Try to get your son's buy in and get the best residential care you can find if you and he decide to go that route.
If he has enough self-control to work a job, and enough understanding to follow the safety rules, then work and some kind of anger-management counseling and maybe medication might be an alternative, depending on your situation.
I hope you find the best possible option for your son and your situation.
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Last week I spoke to NWA and spent an hour on the phone with them. Only after many questions did it become apparent that he wouldn't be able to leave w/o supervision or rarely be visited. They even said he could graduate from high school in less time than a year but HE would want to stay longer to finish the emot. growth program because by that point they don't want to leave because they are so attached to everybody and they love it so much and they see how much it has helped. I was so shocked by the whole thing because there is no mention of any of that on the web site or the info they mail out. It was presented as a program that filled a special niche for 17 and 18 year olds that have been side-tracked and now want to do an intensive year to finish high school while getting therapeutic support for emotional issues while living in a gorgeous part of the country. Sounded great til I dug further in my questions. It wasn't volunteered up front at all and they said, "It's not a prison, they like it". I met w/ his home therapist who is a licenced Ph.D. Psychologist. I described my conversation. He said even ignoring my emotional recitation, he could tell it was the opposite of what my son needed. He felt comfortable with Nature/the Wilderness being the dealer of consequences but he got the "willies" from people having that kind of control and opportunity for indoctrination behind closed doors for that long.
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Oh, also, a lot of the animus of survivors in this Forum is because they weren't disabled, they were just basically normal pain-in-the-neck teens with nutty parents who were gullible enough to fall for a con job.
I think most of them, when they get past their justifiable anger at what was done to them and is being done to other kids like them understand that there are some situations where residential treatment is necessary and legitimate, and just want it to be *good* residential treatment.
If it had happened to you, it might still be one of your hot buttons, too, eh?
I know, you don't need to be yelled at, but realize that not all of the non-program people here are yelling.
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On 2004-03-30 09:47:00, confused wrote:
"Last week I spoke to NWA and spent an hour on the phone with them. Only after many questions did it become apparent that he wouldn't be able to leave w/o supervision or rarely be visited. They even said he could graduate from high school in less time than a year but HE would want to stay longer to finish the emot. growth program because by that point they don't want to leave because they are so attached to everybody and they love it so much and they see how much it has helped. I was so shocked by the whole thing because there is no mention of any of that on the web site or the info they mail out. It was presented as a program that filled a special niche for 17 and 18 year olds that have been side-tracked and now want to do an intensive year to finish high school while getting therapeutic support for emotional issues while living in a gorgeous part of the country. Sounded great til I dug further in my questions. It wasn't volunteered up front at all and they said, "It's not a prison, they like it". I met w/ his home therapist who is a licenced Ph.D. Psychologist. I described my conversation. He said even ignoring my emotional recitation, he could tell it was the opposite of what my son needed. He felt comfortable with Nature/the Wilderness being the dealer of consequences but he got the "willies" from people having that kind of control and opportunity for indoctrination behind closed doors for that long.
"
So you see what we mean about *good* residential treatment unfortunately being difficult to find through all the *bad* stuff out there.
Unfortunately, your experience of finding a place that looks good on paper and on their web site and the truth doesn't come out until you start digging is more common than uncommon, and is why other forum participants have been trying to warn you it's a Buyer Beware industry. Big Time.
Another thing you want to watch for is the place's policy wrt using restraints. It's really hard to find a place where restraints are used as a last resort and staff are trained (outside the program itself) to *de-escalate* non-compliance situations with the patient and treat any restraint situation as serious and potentially life-threatening to the patient and something to be avoided.
*Most* residential treatment facilities treat any kind of non-compliance with the rules as a situation where they're going to insist and get in the patient's face and get loud, which *escalates* the situation until the patient loses self-control and becomes threatening or hysterical enough to "justify" the application of restraints under whatever their policy is.
The reason is that that's the instinctive response of almost any authority figure in a residential setting to non-compliance with the rules---insist and escalate. For the staff that would be applying the restraints, or other staff, to actually de-escalate non-compliance situations they have to actually be trained in good techniques for doing that, and to understand that any application of restraints is a risk to the life of the patient, no matter how carefully or skillfully applied.
It's not an easy thing, because the staffer is naturally afraid of how big the patient is and the danger to the staffer if the patient goes violently berzerk---the instinctive thing is to slap the patient in physical or chemical restraints to reduce the risk to the staffer.
De-escalation techniques protect the staffer and the other patients, but they aren't exactly intuitive in that situation.
You may not be able to find or afford a place where the staff are properly trained to de-escalate restraint situations.
You may just have to find the best place you can on the other criteria and live with the restraint problem. It sucks, and it's one reason why residential treatment is to be avoided if at all practical and safe.
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On 2004-03-29 16:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You're better off not trusting ISAC either! Their RED FLAGS are directed toward many schools with a very high success rate, they just don't like them. Go figure. "
could you be more specific? which schools have the RED FLAGS but are successful, and what evidence do you have?
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Sorry to be posting anonymously, but I'm new here and have not yet registered and picked a passwork I'll remember.
Carlbrook School in South Boston, Virginia is an excellent school. It's for kids who have completed a wilderness program, and pretty much have their act together. They have a web site.
Good luck!
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I personally would be leary. Take a look at how many staff are ex-Academy at Swift River(below). Appears to me that they are attempting to create a different spin on the same old TBS, or perhaps they have moved on to create a facility for less "defiant and struggling" teens who are capable of adhering to their "code of ethics". Do they monitor phone calls? Are the participants allow access to public phones, parents, family? What forms of punishment are used? LGA workshops?
http://www.carlbrook.org/faculty/index.htm (http://www.carlbrook.org/faculty/index.htm)
Tim Brace, B.A., M.C.
Dean of Students
A graduate of the United States Naval Academy, Mr. Brace has worked with students and their families for over 25 years. He founded and served as Executive Director at the Academy at Swift River, served as Headmaster at Mt. Bachelor Academy, Headmaster at Cedu School, and Headmaster at Rocky Mountain Academy. Mr. Brace, who also holds a Master of Counseling from Arizona State University, has not only vested considerable experience in the field, but he has also been instrumental in shaping the industry as a whole. His vision and innovation have spawned a generation of educational programs that have impacted families across the country. His wealth of knowledge in working with young people is virtually unmatched.
Glenn F. Bender, A.B., M.A., Ph.D.
Dean of Academics
With a Master of Arts degree in Philosophy and a Doctorate in Philosophy and Educational Policy Studies from the University of Wisconsin, Dr. Bender brings extensive academic and administrative experience to the Board of Regents. During a 25 year career in education, he has served as Dean of Academics and Dean of Admissions at the Academy at Swift River, Director of Academics at Cascade School, Director of Admissions at Blue Ridge School, Director of Admissions and Director of Academics at Rocky Mountain Academy, and Professor of Philosophy at the University of Southwestern Louisiana.
Andrew Coe, B.A., M.S.
Supervising Director
Mr. Coe, who has a long history of experience working with adolescents and families, holds a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology from Furman University and a Master of Science in Marriage and Family Therapy from the University of Kentucky. His work experience has included individual and group counseling as well as supervisory positions at Presbyterian College, Hidden Lake Academy in Georgia, and the Academy at Swift River in Massachusetts. Most recently, Mr. Coe served as the Assistant Director of Counseling at the Academy at Swift River, where he was responsible for the oversight, development and supervision of both students and counselors.
Jennifer McArthur, B.A., M.S.W.
Advisor
Ms. McArthur, who holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from Warren Wilson College and a Master of Social Work from Brigham Young University, has worked for several years with adolescents of varied backgrounds, including at-risk youth and socio-economically challenged populations. Her experience includes counseling positions with Wasatch Mental Health, Trend Community Mental Health, and Alldredge Academy.
Robert Somers, B.S., M.S.W. (in progress)
Supervising Director
With nearly ten years of counseling experience, Mr. Somers has worked with troubled adolescents in a variety of therapeutic settings. A Virginia native, Mr. Somers holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Communication and Recreation Management from Radford University and is currently finishing his Master of Social Work degree at Canyon College. His former positions include shift leader at Northwest Academy, lead counselor at Charter Westbrook Hospital, therapist at Colonial Hospital, team leader at Rocky Mountain Academy, and most recently senior counselor at the Academy at Swift River.
Peter Williams, B.A., M.A., L.C.S.W., L.M.F.C.
Advisor
Mr. Williams holds a Bachelor of Arts from Southern Methodist University, a Master of Education in Counseling Psychology from Antioch Graduate School, and completed post-graduate training in Analytical Psychology at the C.G. Jung Institute in Boston. A Licensed Certified Social Worker and Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Mr. Williams has worked as a clinical therapist for many years, most recently as a senior counselor at the Academy at Swift River.
More on Swift River:
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 15&forum=9 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4815&forum=9)
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 26&forum=9 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9)
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 49&forum=9 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3349&forum=9)
Tim Brace appears to be involved with or have had involvement with some of the more cleverly deceptive programs of the CEDU persuasion.
0/1997 Founded by Tim Brace, Mt Bachelor, CEDU. Instrumental in creation of NATSAP.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... ews04.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2000/3/news04.html)
4/1997 Krieder moves from Mt Bachelor to ASR. Bitz to be Head.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een03.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1997/4/seen03.html)
7/1997 ASR opens. Glenn Bender Admissions. Sister school to Mt Bachelor Oregon.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /np01.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1997/12/np01.html)
8/1997 John Powers Headmaster, Glenn Bender Adm Dir, Brett Carey Dean of Students, and Rea Kreider as Dean of Academics
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een03.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1997/8/seen03.html)
4/1998 Brian Ray new Asso Dean of Adm. Brian previously had been Asst Dir of Adm at Hidden Lake Academy in Georgia
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een02.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1998/4/seen02.html)
6/1998 Many staff from HLA move to ASR, including Bentz and Ray.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een03.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1998/6/seen03.html)
Want to know more about the CEDU method? If this link doesn't work, do a search here for CEDU.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/search.php (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/search.php)
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2004-05-23 19:15 ]
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This looks like Swift River has had almost a total turnover in non-academic staff in the past year. Either that, or they only recently updated their website.
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i went to asr when it first opened and none of the same people are there except for maybe one teacher, some administration, and very few counslers who came when mt parents finally took me out. I can only speak as to what happened when i was there but all phone calls were monitered and if we started to complain the phone would be hung up. We were allowed one phone call a week for ten to fifteen minutes. Punishment included self studies, work projects, bans, and reflections. The 11 months were the most tramitizing in my life. the fact that so many staff do leave it is hard for kids to trust there mentors because they always leave and most of the kids which go there already have trust issues. I had 5 mentors in less than a year when you are supposed to have one throughout the program.
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Swift River was founded by two ccomselurs from hla.
I FUCKING HATE HLA :flame:
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I would call the HEAD of my county mental health board and ask what kind of services they have in place to help families with a child who is in danger of an out of the home residential placement to help the family keep the child at home. You sunk a lot of money into the wilderness program, so maybe they will take you seriously. Be persistent. Some boards have initiated wrap around services and MST programs for just that purpose. It's cheaper for them and more effective for the child.
I would also contact my state's advocate group for children's disabilities & special education needs to get support on addressing the school issues, which are almost always a factor. Does the child have an IEP or 504 plan? Is it adequate????? Usually isn't. What is the school doing? Do you have an attorney who specializes in special ed law?
We found the wilderness program a good intervention to stabalize the acting-out destructively and get the child's attention for us. We went for an EG boarding school and it was a big mistake!!!!!!! The concerned posts you are reading are for real!
Circled back around and did the above. Not perfect, but better than a THOUGHT REFORM PROGRAM masquarading as a school.
I like the Waldorf approach to alternative education, but there was none near us.
Good luck.
< He's doing well in the wilderness program. But returning to his old life seeems certain he will fall back in old ways. I don't want to put him in a therapeutic school...they scared me before I saw this forum, now even more. He wants to finish school. Most regular boarding schools won't take him w/his past behavior and bad grades this year and his learning issues. He wants a boarding school where he can still have a life but get help w/ his learning differences. What would you all do if it was your kid?
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