Post by: Word of Wisdom on March 28, 2004, 10:52:00 PM
Have you ever asked yourself what kind of person writes messages on this partcular forum? I am sort of a social scientist. I am wondering just what kind of person spends time in this forum? I think that we should stop analyzing teen help programs and start analyzing those who are so vehemently hateful and write terrible things about people who are serving children and their families.
We need to turn the tables so to speak. I think we would all be appaled to find out what kind of person would speak so negatively about good people. I think when we truly find out and expose the type of people who write the hatred we will all be shocked.
Well, I am putting this topic on this forum (Teen Help) to determine exactly what kind of person would attack the teen help industry. I think everyone should know what kind of a person belittles those who work with troubled teens.
I think that everyone should know what kind of people are posting nasty messages on this forum. This particular forum is reserved for those who hate the teen help industry. Although this is a very biased group, they are very wierd nontheless.
Just watch... in days this forum will be filled with outrageous evil... This message will be posted on Sunday evening on the 28th of March. This time next week every nut case in the country will have put forth their two cents.
Also, after this little experiment I am thinking about contacting every Christian I know to let them know about this forum. Perhaps us Christians can take over this forum and talk about nothing but Jesus. Perhaps we can have prayer groups, and bible teachings. That way, all the wierdo's will disappear and head off to another forum that harbor hatemongers. One thing is for sure... people who like evil do not like the Word of God. It makes them vicious and nasty.
Just watch and behold...
Post by: RTP2003 on March 28, 2004, 10:55:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2004, 11:21:00 PM
I've known a lot of social scientists. I've seen the writings of a lot of them.
The initiator of this thread does not write like a social scientist.
The initiator of this thread writes like a teenager or a soccer mom with either no college or a liberal-arts type degree.
He/she also has a very strange worldview if he/she expects the people who read and post here to run away from whatever kinds of people fit his/her probably very eccentric definition of Christian.
He/she also obviously expects to be hated.
Strange. Very, very strange.
The problem with the "Teen Help" industry is that it *isn't* actually helpful. Any parent is familiar with the "help" of a five year old which, while well-intentioned, makes actually getting anything accomplished without have to clean up from three different kinds of disaster along the way *much* harder. :lol:
The sad difference is that five year olds are cute. The "Teen Help" industry isn't.
Another bizarre thing about the person who started this thread---he/she has a seeming inability to tell the difference between hate and disapproval.
I *do* hate particular individuals who defraud parents and abuse and neglect children.
But I don't hate the "Teen Help" industry.
I disapprove of many of the methods employed in it, and I think it needs oversight and regulation.
And about that weird persecution complex you've got----why would I care if you're Christian? *I'm* not, but most of my friends are. Most people are. Several of my relatives are even clergy in various denominations.
Guess what? They don't approve of child abuse, child neglect, or fraud either.
You are strange. I don't hate you, but I definitely think you are *very* strange.
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2004, 11:43:00 PM
Your support of the industry is welcome here. You may haave some anger to vent here as welll i agree you don't sound like much of a social scienist, maybe a program director.
Post by: Word of Wisdom on March 28, 2004, 11:49:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 12:02:00 AM
:cry2:
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 12:13:00 AM
GOT RAID?
:roll:
Post by: Word of Wisdom on March 29, 2004, 12:19:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 01:13:00 AM
The legion of faithful teen helpers have blood on their hands. The blood of innocent children killed in the name of God and now, a 31 year old group counselor named Anson Arnett.
How dare you come to this forum to spread your gospel of ignorance and denial. The teen help industry is a monstrous fraud.
God help the children at the mercy of people who profit from neglect, abuse, exploitation and victimization. Robbing children of their innocence and their trust in adults is as evil
as ethnic cleansing. May your sins damn each and every one of you to eternal Hell.
:flame:
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 10:31:00 AM
There are those who do hate the business of teen programs; all teen programs. They have good reason to think as they do and generally can't see any real difference between good/bad. I think this is partly due to their experience in them; and partly due to the fact that the bare bones description of most all of them sound just the same.
There are some who hate those that have been proven abusive and neglectful; but still feel that intervention is sometimes in the kid's best interest; and that there are good programs as well as bad.
Then you have the Big Dog program people who defend their beloved program and call all those who think it needs to be put down, liars.
There are plenty of people who are going to go rabid on any attempt to flood this forum with Christian thought. This is not a Christian forum, and was never ment to be. Christian thought has its place; but it is not here; not in large portion, anyway.
This link is indeed designed to bring out a lot of hostility to Christianity; but is that really what you want to do?
Matt7:6
Post by: Word of Wisdom on March 29, 2004, 11:24:00 AM
No. I dont want to bring out hostility towards Christians. I have no control over that. The Bible talks a great deal about the hate of Christians by those people who have not love for the truth. Haters of Christians will be there no matter what the Christians do. As we have seen in Mel Gibson's movie The Passion, Jesus was crucified because he did good. So, even in our doing good the people of the world will condemn and persecute us.
However, this little thread is not about Christian's or Christianity. It is about bringing the evil into the light. This thread is meant to put the nasty remarks into prospective. For example, it is the criminal who hates the police. Good law abiding citizens respect and appreciate the police. So, my intent on bringing forth the truth about those who hate the teen help industry is to expose who they are, and what kind of peolple they are. It gives a better prospective on the background and the intent of the haters.
I know that these programs have helped many people, myself included. But that is not the point. I dont have any intentions of changing anyone's mind. I just want the visitors to this forum to dismiss the notions and opinions of the mean and nasty people. Parents do need valid information about the schools out there, and the haters are distracting people from finding good info. Actually, the haters are helping the poor programs.
And, the nasty people are proving me right. Just watch. In the next day or two we will find many hateful remarks about me and the teen programs. Why? Because people have an agenda. They have no interest in the truth. They only want to hurt people (hurting people hurt people). Their intent is to strike back and torment others.
If the truth be told there are many teen programs I would fight against. I know that they are doing a disservice to children and families. However, you dont throw out the baby with the bathwater. Reform is needed. The hate mongers only end up confusing people, and hurt their own cause. But they are so filled with hate they cant see through their own pain and inadequecies.
As long as there are those who hate we wont find solutions, only ignorance towards those solutions. I think it is time to turn on the lights so that the coach roaches will return to the darkness and hide out so that we can get on to a more unified approach.
Post by: Antigen on March 29, 2004, 11:36:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-03-28 19:52:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
There is no doubt that Teen programs are amazing. They are very successful, and more and more people are using them.
Correction. There is apparently no doubt about it in your mind. There is plenty of doubt among the now grown recipients of The Program.
--quote
Post by: Antigen on March 29, 2004, 11:38:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-03-29 08:24:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
For example, it is the criminal who hates the police. Good law abiding citizens respect and appreciate the police.
Boy, you really must live a cloistered existance, huh? Good law abiding citizens hate a corrupt cop just as much as anyone.
I have found that the best way to give advice to your children is to find out what they want and then advise them to do it
--Harry S. Truman
Post by: The Butcher on March 29, 2004, 11:43:00 AM
Post by: Word of Wisdom on March 29, 2004, 11:53:00 AM
Post by: Word of Wisdom on March 29, 2004, 11:55:00 AM
Corrections. You may be older but somehow you have managed to not grow up.
Post by: GregFL on March 29, 2004, 11:55:00 AM
I hate the misnamed "teen help industry" because I love freedom and the rights of children. Do some homework and you will see many sources reporting on rampant abuses coming from this travesty and understand that the people here have first hand knowledge and years of clarity on the subject.
I hate ignorance because I covet knowledge. Read a book or two and gain some real wisdom because so far you aren't showing much here.
I hate abuse because I am a childhood survivor of it, in several ways, not just in abusive treatment. Open your mind to what it is like to be 14 and locked in thought reform before you vomit your ignorant swill around this website.
I hate religious idiots who hide behind Jesus's skirt to justify their cruelty because huge and vast evils against humanity are commited in the name of religion, more so in fact than for all other causes combined. Get your head out of the sand and out of the dark ages before you hurt someone or yourself. You want to Debate religion?...any time any place.
Your initial post here is idiotic. Most people rallying against the teen help industry are doing so out of love and hate. Hate for evil and injustice, and love of freedom and humanity.
I think you stumbled into the wrong place, or your post was just meant to incite. Either way, get lost....
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 12:07:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-28 20:49:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
"I told you... that is two hate mongers in just a few minutes after I posted my little experiment. I knew that I was right, but it is still shocking to see it become a reality. Keep it up! This time next week we shall see just what kind of people hate those who work with teens. Even though they read that this thread is an experiment they cant help themselves, as they just have to write their hate (even though they might classify/define it to be disapproval)."
You remind me of a street preacher "Brother Jim" who would X people out and accuse all the young men of "masturbation" for directing their (ahem) organ while urinating to do so neatly and in the normal male fashion in normal mens' rooms.
By redefining "masturbation" in much the same way you have redefined "hate," he could accuse virtually every male of that act.
You've essentially redefined "hate" to be disagreement with your position and "hatemongers" to be anyone who disagrees with you.
You know, my family used to play a game on long car trips where we'd take the letters in license tags and try to form words that included those letters in that order, where the person with the shortest word won.
My mom looked at one, we'll say BCC for the sake of argument and said, "Back, if you don't care about spelling." My reply was, "Cat, if you don't care about spelling."
The point was that once you throw out the rules of spelling in the game, *any* three-letter word wins---because the rules of spelling were crucial to defining the game.
Once you throw out the conventional English-language definitions of the words "hate" and "hatemonger" in calling people a name or accusing them of a vice (this holds true of accusing people of *any* vice), you can accuse anyone of anything.
You've fallen down the rabbit hole into the wonderland, with the Mad Hatter, the Queen of Hearts, and Alice---essentially, you're asserting, "When I use a word, it means just what I want it to mean, no more and no less."
Unfortunately for you, that logically fallacious debate strategy only works when you're debating people stupid enough to let you get away with it instead of calling your illogic what it is.
Are you so used to only associating with and matching wits with stupid people that you're actually used to getting away with that sort of sophistry?
And you call yourself a "social scientist"?
I don't "hate" you, sir. But I don't respect your mind or your ability to formulate a logical argument to advance your position, and since that ability is ordinarily a prerequisite for becoming a social scientist, my initial impression is that you're not only a poor debater but also untruthful.
For the sake of clarity, if you haven't either earned a PhD in one of the social sciences from an accredited post-secondary institution *or* published an original piece of scientific research in a peer-reviewed journal of one of the social sciences, you are *not* a social scientist.
You may be an amateur with an interest in the social sciences, but to be a "scientist" you have to do original, rigorous research that adds worthwhile discoveries to the body of scientific knowledge in your field. Either having a dissertation approved by fellow scientists, or publishing in a peer-reviewed journal, meets those basic criteria.
For the sake of argument, Webster's 1913 defines "hate" in the following way:
1. To have a great aversion to, with a strong desire that evil should befall the person toward whom the feeling is directed; to dislike intensely; to detest; as, to hate one's enemies; to hate hypocrisy.
---------------------
I don't have a great aversion to you or wish you ill, I just don't have any respect for your intellectual prowess or your truthfulness (or, more precisely, your probable lack thereof).
You aren't significant enough to my life to arouse any emotional intensity even remotely approaching hate.
Post by: The Butcher on March 29, 2004, 12:14:00 PM
Get straight A's but they still make fun
I don't give a ____, I'll laugh last
Stayed in every night
Do my homework so I'll be smart
Girls all say I'm a little fucked
Mommy I'm a good boy
Mommy I'm a fuckin' savior
Mommy I'm alive
Rip the veins from human necks
Until they're wet with life
Razor-blades love teenage flesh
An epidermoty
I'll bring back a souvenir
For it's my mommy's dream
Can I go out and kill tonight, kill tonight
Killed a girl on lovers' lane
I kept her toes and teeth
Every night I stalk around until I find my keep
I'll bring back a souvenir
For it's my mommy's dream
Can I go out and kill tonight, kill tonight
Killed a girl on lovers lane
I kept her toes and teeth
Every night I stalk around until I find my keep
I'll bring back a souvenir
For it's my mommy's dream
Can I go out and kill tonight, kill tonight
Kill tonight, kill tonight, kill tonight, kill tonight
Kill tonight, kill tonight
Can I go out and kill tonight, kill tonight
Kill tonight, kill tonight, kill tonight, kill tonight
Kill tonight, kill tonight
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 12:20:00 PM
Basically, the habit of trolling for flames was old long before the advent of the Internet.
The person who started this thread is trolling for flames, so he can feel "persecuted" for his professed Christian faith---which relieves him of any responsibility to actually go out and do good deeds.
Annoying people so he can feel persecuted when they react to his provocation is easier and cheaper than actually living a Christian life.
He's addicted to that feeling of being persecuted for his faith.
Please don't give this persecution-addict his fix.
If he doesn't get his fix here, he'll be more annoying in the short run trying to get that fix, but eventually he'll go away someplace where he finds an easier source.
Please let him.
Post by: Antigen on March 29, 2004, 12:44:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-29 08:53:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
Thank you for proving my point. You have done an excellent job in helping parents to decide to send their son or daughter to a program. No parent wants their child to turn out like you.
Uh, Craig? The Butcher is a Program graduate.
The only voluntary urine sample they'll get from me is a taste test
--Bumper Sticker
Post by: The Butcher on March 29, 2004, 01:02:00 PM
Oh, GOD forgive me for wanting to brutally MURDER this TURD of WisDUMB. :skull:
Post by: Antigen on March 29, 2004, 01:02:00 PM
After all that, Craig, would you please answer a question for me?
Is it true that you never accept/hold students against their will or is it true that you don't force anything down their throats? One or the other, please.
The clearest way into the Universe is through a forest wilderness.
-- John Muir
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 01:11:00 PM
So thanks, Words of Wisdom. My teen may be a pain in the rear but you have convinced me to throw away the brochures, videos and dozens of emails I have received from these so-called teen helpers and to inform the educational consultant referred to me by a parent I met on the Internet, I won't be needing their services (sic) either.
What I will do is invite my 17 year old son to visit this forum and read the propaganda from both sides of the controversy surrounding the teen help industry. If he has any brains at all, he will quickly realize what I have come to understand about the industry and the kind of people who make a living *helping* troubled teens. They are predators of the worst kind and no matter how concerned a parent is about their child's attitude and behavior, keeping them a safe distance from these vultures is a step in the right direction.
Post by: Troubled Turd on March 29, 2004, 01:13:00 PM
Post by: Antibody? on March 29, 2004, 02:10:00 PM
Why does the government pay these crazy people and house them? Well, I suppose they are paid to keep them from living in your garage, backyard, or to prevent them from staling from you. That is why, and, most ?welfare? is corporate welfare ? but it is easier to pick on the weak, sick and the mentally ill instead, isn?t it.
Open your eyes people. When a human being can?t get acceptance and love from anyone, when there is no altruism and, nobody even talks to you then you act out. Why? Because society has left ypu out for being different, left you out to die of loneliness, pushed them aside and, you don?t understand why they have the right to live next to you, christian or not. Trade places with them. You would act out too. Most of the money goes to the military, not to welfare and I?m sure you support war. That?s more humane than welfare? Less humane then boarding schools ? maybe? You moron.
Six trillion of debt is what we rich parents are passing on to our kids and grand-kids - to purchase our temporary prosperity. Yes, it all "trickles down" to that. We, however, never admit we are selling our kids, grandkids, the sick, our elders, our vets, the mentally ill and the developmentally disabled for our own temporary comfort ? do we? Nah, because they inconvenience us. How dare they live next to US? How dare them inconvenience you with their, so called, right to exist? Send them off to be saved. You moron.
You all say our "value" is ?family and freedom,? You say that we are "Proud to be Americans," but the truth is, for all who know true history (not what those propaganda textbooks said in the 50s and 60s), we don't give a hoot about freedom or liberty unless it is ours alone and it includes money. We think capitalism is a word that means Democracy. Capitalism is exactly what it says ?capital? (money) ?ism? (belief in). Democracy is equality and liberty ? Really, It is...
Yes, democracy would be great, but it does not exist. It never existed. A perverted form of imposed Christianity exists - yours. "I am one of those wierd christians who believes people like you who are without sin should cast the first stone." We abound in silence, and we know what you really are. As George Carlin put it "yeah, this country was founded by slave owners that wanted to be free." What kind of democracy, hordes and wages war while innocent children are imprisoned and beaten? ??um US?? Yeah, you idiot.
And, we are ?Proud to be Americans.? Well then, we must also be ?Proud to be citizens of the most hated country on earth,? Proud to be the most violent society on earth.? ?Proud that people hate us because we are greed-infatuated tyrants with smart bombs and a dumb president.? Sorry, but I admire Canada, Costa Rica, New Zealand and several others that are smart enough not to threaten anybody. There is nothing to gain by bombing them. They don?t need to spend half their gross domestic product on bombs and wars. They spend it to bring people up instead of tearing them down. (Yes I am going to move there ? so don?t ask). We say, ?Oh, it?s the terrorists.?
Look, we created those terrorists with our financial support. Then, after having them fighting our war with Russia for us, we abandoned them. Now they hate us. And why would they not hate us? We have everything, and, they have nothing. We use them to fight our wars for resources - while we suck their oil. Then we ask them to give up their beliefs and culture for "democracy" and industry - "US industry." And, if they refuse, we "save them" with smart bombs and "Imposed Democracy" We are so "Christian"
?Capitalism.? ?Duh that is right, Joe.? ?Duh, each bomb tells them how to vote, duh, right Joe?? And people write letters to the editor. ?Why do we have so much depression?? Why does the government pay for welfare and housing for my demented psycho neighbor? Why are people agains indoctanating children into Christianity with imprisonment, torture, and beatings? We'll we did it to the Native Americans and maybe stealing their culture, beliefs and turning them to booze was the Christian thing to do after all.
Well, We are a "Christian nation" arent we? You fundamentalists are not my idea of Christians. Rather, it looks to me like, one head of "the (metaphorical) beast" was cut off in New York. Looking for the antichrist are you? ? Well, ?My Fundamentalist Fellow Americans.? Then ?look in the mirror."
Post by: Troubled Turd on March 29, 2004, 02:36:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 03:08:00 PM
Hey, Anybody who wants to vomit repaetedly can go to this site. http://www.gjrinpa.org/ (http://www.gjrinpa.org/)
Ginger shared it with me a while back. These are the assholes the want to have church and state joined in the fuck of a lifetime.
They have "Words of Wisdom" blaaaahhhhhuummph.
That's right - ladies and gentlemen, Introducing "George Junior Academy" - He just happens to have the same name as the president. You know, the guy with Cheny's dick in his mouth and his right hand up the crotch of Lady Enron and with his left is banging Jerry Fallwell's mother fundamantalist church.
But, hey, I'm not political or anything like that - pppppphhhhh.
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 03:19:00 PM
Check out this site Quoting them en masse.
[Quote)
Subject opinion to coercion: whom will you make your inquisitors? Fallible men; men governed by bad passions, by private as well as public reasons. And why subject it to coercion? To produce uniformity. But is uniformity of opinion desirable? No more than of face and stature. (Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363)
Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth. (Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)
No man complains of his neighbor for ill management of his affairs, for an error in sowing his land, or marrying his daughter, for consuming his substance in taverns ... in all these he has liberty; but if he does not frequent the church, or then conform in ceremonies, there is an immediate uproar. (Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 364.)
In the Notes [on the State of Virginia] Jefferson elaborated his views on government's keeping its distance from all religious affairs and religious opinions. "The legitimate powers of government," he wrote, "extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." (Edwin S. Gaustad, Faith of Our Fathers: Religion and the New Nation, San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1987, pp. 42-43. )
Life is of no value but as it brings us gratifications. Among the most valuable of these is rational society. It informs the mind, sweetens the temper, cheers our spirits, and promotes health. (Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, February 20, 1784. From Adrienne Koch, ed., The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society, New York: George Braziller, 1965, p. 305.)
[W]e have solved by fair experiment the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. (Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 16, 1786, according to Albert Menendez and Edd Doerr, compilers, The Great Quotations on Religious Liberty, Long Beach, CA: Centerline Press, 1991, p. 47.)
... shake off all the fears of servile prejudices under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. You will naturally examine first the religion of your own country. Read the bible then, as you would read Livy or Tacitus. The testimony of the writer weighs in their favor in one scale, and their not being against the laws of nature does not weigh against them. But those facts in the bible which contradict the laws of nature, must be examined with more care, and under a variety of faces. Here you must recur to the pretensions of the writer to inspiration from god. Examine upon what evidence his pretensions are founded, and whether that evidence is so strong as that it's [sic] falshood [sic] would be more improbable than a change of the laws of nature in the case he relates.... Do not be frightened from this enquiry by any fear of it's [sic] consequences. If it ends in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in it's [sic] exercise, and the love of others which it will procure you. If you find reason to believe there is a god, a consciousness that you are acting under his eye, and that he approves you, will be a vast additional incitement. If that there be a future state, the hope of a happy existence in that increases the appetite to deserve it; if that Jesus was also a god, you will be comforted by a belief of his aid and love. In fine, I repeat that you must lay aside all prejudice on both sides, and neither believe nor reject any thing because any other person, or description of persons have rejected or believed it. Your own reason is the only oracle given you by heaven, and you are answerable not for the rightness but uprightness of the decision.... (Thomas Jefferson, letter to his young nephew Peter Carr, August 10, 1787. From Adrienne Koch, ed., The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society, New York: George Braziller, 1965, pp. 320-321.)
I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another. (Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, January 26, 1799. From Gorton Carruth and Eugene Ehrlich, eds., The Harper Book of American Quotations, New York: Harper & Row, 1988, p. 499.)
To preserve the freedom of the human mind then and freedom of the press, every spirit should be ready to devote itself to martyrdom; for as long as we may think as we will, and speak as we think, the condition of man will proceed in improvement. (Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Green Mumford, June 18, 1799. From Adrienne Koch, ed., The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society, New York: George Braziller, 1965, p. 341.)
"I know," Jefferson had written, ... "that Gouverneur Morris, who pretended to be in his [George Washington's] secrets & believed himself to be so, has often told me that Genl. Washington believed no more of that system [Christianity] than he himself did." (Paul F. Boller, George Washington & Religion, Dallas: Southern Methodist University Press, 1963, p. 85. Jefferson's comments were written in his journal, Anas, in February, 1800, according to Boller, p. 80.)
Quote
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 03:23:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-29 12:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Religous nuts frequently say that our "founding fathers" supported Christianity exclusively and that we are a "christian nation." BULLSHIT
Check out this site Quoting them en masse.Quote
Subject opinion to coercion: whom will you make your inquisitors? Fallible men; men governed by bad passions, by private as well as public reasons. And why subject it to coercion? To produce uniformity. But is uniformity of opinion desirable? No more than of face and stature. (Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363)
Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth. (Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)
No man complains of his neighbor for ill management of his affairs, for an error in sowing his land, or marrying his daughter, for consuming his substance in taverns ... in all these he has liberty; but if he does not frequent the church, or then conform in ceremonies, there is an immediate uproar. (Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 364.)
In the Notes [on the State of Virginia] Jefferson elaborated his views on government's keeping its distance from all religious affairs and religious opinions. "The legitimate powers of government," he wrote, "extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." (Edwin S. Gaustad, Faith of Our Fathers: Religion and the New Nation, San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1987, pp. 42-43. )
Life is of no value but as it brings us gratifications. Among the most valuable of these is rational society. It informs the mind, sweetens the temper, cheers our spirits, and promotes health. (Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, February 20, 1784. From Adrienne Koch, ed., The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society, New York: George Braziller, 1965, p. 305.)
[W]e have solved by fair experiment the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. (Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 16, 1786, according to Albert Menendez and Edd Doerr, compilers, The Great Quotations on Religious Liberty, Long Beach, CA: Centerline Press, 1991, p. 47.)
... shake off all the fears of servile prejudices under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. You will naturally examine first the religion of your own country. Read the bible then, as you would read Livy or Tacitus. The testimony of the writer weighs in their favor in one scale, and their not being against the laws of nature does not weigh against them. But those facts in the bible which contradict the laws of nature, must be examined with more care, and under a variety of faces. Here you must recur to the pretensions of the writer to inspiration from god. Examine upon what evidence his pretensions are founded, and whether that evidence is so strong as that it's [sic] falshood [sic] would be more improbable than a change of the laws of nature in the case he relates.... Do not be frightened from this enquiry by any fear of it's [sic] consequences. If it ends in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in it's [sic] exercise, and the love of others which it will procure you. If you find reason to believe there is a god, a consciousness that you are acting under his eye, and that he approves you, will be a vast additional incitement. If that there be a future state, the hope of a happy existence in that increases the appetite to deserve it; if that Jesus was also a god, you will be comforted by a belief of his aid and love. In fine, I repeat that you must lay aside all prejudice on both sides, and neither believe nor reject any thing because any other person, or description of persons have rejected or believed it. Your own reason is the only oracle given you by heaven, and you are answerable not for the rightness but uprightness of the decision.... (Thomas Jefferson, letter to his young nephew Peter Carr, August 10, 1787. From Adrienne Koch, ed., The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society, New York: George Braziller, 1965, pp. 320-321.)
I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another. (Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, January 26, 1799. From Gorton Carruth and Eugene Ehrlich, eds., The Harper Book of American Quotations, New York: Harper & Row, 1988, p. 499.)
To preserve the freedom of the human mind then and freedom of the press, every spirit should be ready to devote itself to martyrdom; for as long as we may think as we will, and speak as we think, the condition of man will proceed in improvement. (Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Green Mumford, June 18, 1799. From Adrienne Koch, ed., The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society, New York: George Braziller, 1965, p. 341.)
"I know," Jefferson had written, ... "that Gouverneur Morris, who pretended to be in his [George Washington's] secrets & believed himself to be so, has often told me that Genl. Washington believed no more of that system [Christianity] than he himself did." (Paul F. Boller, George Washington & Religion, Dallas: Southern Methodist University Press, 1963, p. 85. Jefferson's comments were written in his journal, Anas, in February, 1800, according to Boller, p. 80.)
"
Post by: HandsOutLight on March 29, 2004, 03:34:00 PM
The Quote I really love is this one.
... shake off all the fears of servile prejudices under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. You will naturally examine first the religion of your own country. Read the bible then, as you would read Livy or Tacitus. The testimony of the writer weighs in their favor in one scale, and their not being against the laws of nature does not weigh against them. But those facts in the bible which contradict the laws of nature, must be examined with more care, and under a variety of faces. Here you must recur to the pretensions of the writer to inspiration from god. Examine upon what evidence his pretensions are founded, and whether that evidence is so strong as that it's [sic] falshood [sic] would be more improbable than a change of the laws of nature in the case he relates.... Do not be frightened from this enquiry by any fear of it's [sic] consequences. If it ends in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in it's [sic] exercise, and the love of others which it will procure you. If you find reason to believe there is a god, a consciousness that you are acting under his eye, and that he approves you, will be a vast additional incitement. If that there be a future state, the hope of a happy existence in that increases the appetite to deserve it; if that Jesus was also a god, you will be comforted by a belief of his aid and love. In fine, I repeat that you must lay aside all prejudice on both sides, and neither believe nor reject any thing because any other person, or description of persons have rejected or believed it. Your own reason is the only oracle given you by heaven, and you are answerable not for the rightness but uprightness of the decision.... (Thomas Jefferson, letter to his young nephew Peter Carr, August 10, 1787. From Adrienne Koch, ed., The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society, New York: George Braziller, 1965, pp. 320-321.)
Post by: Antigen on March 29, 2004, 03:55:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-29 11:10:00, Antibody? wrote:
Capitalism is exactly what it says ?capital? (money) ?ism? (belief in).
Yes, exactly that. We often hear of this or that hated faction putting money before some other presumably more important thing. Money before the children, money before peace, profits before people, etc. But in that statement, we neglect the cold hard fact that money is nothing but a marker system to reperesent needed goods and services. The children need money to buy food, shelter, clothing and a nice new (or refurbished) bicycle. We can expect peace when most everybody's got enough of the things money can buy and can expect to realize the benefits of their labours.
There's no taking money out of the equation. Capitalism is a belief in that truism. Rather than let everyone vote on how best to take those needed resources from others for their own agendas, Capitalism lays down a few very simple rules of ownership and responsibility. There is absolutely NOthing capitalistic about military operations to secure fuel production resources for private industry. That is Socialism. A true Capitalist plan would have to rely on negotiation and voluntary trade by definition. These Neocons currently occupying the seats of power in this country are no more Capitalists than our new friend Craig here is anything close to what Christ described as a decent human being.
War is God?s way of teaching Americans geography.
--Ambrose Bierce (died 1914)
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 04:47:00 PM
It would be nice if folks would remember that not all of the people opposed to child abuse, child neglect, fraud, and involuntary commitment of juveniles over trivialities are left wingers.
Not all people with conservative politics are nutty Christian religious fanatics.
There are right-libertarians, just as there are left-libertarians.
It may feel good to vent your political spleen, but risking alienating fellow travelers isn't really worth it.
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 05:14:00 PM
I presume that Words of Wisdom is feeling a bit threatened by our posts. I may be right that he/she is a program director who may be feeling the pinch in pocket book. Hooray!!!!
The truth shall set [us] free! Keep up the good work!
Post by: Antigen on March 29, 2004, 06:02:00 PM
Scoundrels are predictable, but you're a man of honor and that frightens me.
Robert Heinlein, Glory Road.
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 06:15:00 PM
i think not.
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 06:27:00 PM
Post by: Antibody? on March 29, 2004, 08:54:00 PM
Neither am I advocating Socialism. I am simply stating these points.
Of course, I am perceived to be left. I will stay here (or whereever I am) and state my case no matter what anyone likes or dislikes. Surprise! It is my constitional Right "or-was-that-left ---- oh shit" ha ha ha.
Guess what. "It is great to be misunderstood" (Emerson) i voted for Nixon once, then Reagan, then Perot then Clinton. Now I'm voting for any male without a Bush. Anything would be better.
"Oh no. "I violated the sensibilities of the right!!!" - (a voice is heard in the distance) GOD SAVE THE MAVERICK "get the scarlet letter brand now" Now? Oh No !!!!!-- RUN aaaaaaahahahahah."
What is this, a fucking police state? - I hope you are not an example of a standard libratarian.
Truth be told. I'm not right or left. I'm completely out of the box. ---
da da dada dada, da daada daa daaaaaa DDDDDAAAA.
"You're traveling through another dimension; a dimention not only of site and sound but of mind" "A wonderous land whos boundaries are that of the imagination la la la la laaaaaaaaaa. "You've just stepped over into the" CRITICAL THINKING ZONE - MORON !!!! ha ha hahahaha.
"Join MEEEEEE LUKE and you will know the POWER OF THE DARK SIDE?" "Give up being a literalist- -paint-by-numbers-libratarian. You can't be a machine. Luke, Join Me." "I willl NEVER JOIN YOU" Chop. aaaaaaaaaaaaa"
hahahahaahahhha
Post by: Antibody? on March 29, 2004, 09:01:00 PM
Post by: Word of Wisdom on March 29, 2004, 09:49:00 PM
I started out telling everyone that in just one week this forum would be filled with evil and dark posts. I did not figure that it would be completed in one day. I guess I out did myself.
It does not take a rocket scientist to see that you are filled with hate. Thus, you disqualify your own statements and help the cause you are fighting. Not very effective.
Also, I will be sending the posts from "The Butcher" to the FBI. Expect a visit young lady!
Post by: Troubled Turd on March 29, 2004, 09:54:00 PM
The playground is closing, and I think I hear your mommy calling you... :lol:
Post by: GregFL on March 29, 2004, 10:19:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-29 09:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2004-03-28 20:49:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
"I told you... that is two hate mongers in just a few minutes after I posted my little experiment. I knew that I was right, but it is still shocking to see it become a reality. Keep it up! This time next week we shall see just what kind of people hate those who work with teens. Even though they read that this thread is an experiment they cant help themselves, as they just have to write their hate (even though they might classify/define it to be disapproval)."
You remind me of a street preacher "Brother Jim" who would X people out and accuse all the young men of "masturbation" for directing their (ahem) organ while urinating to do so neatly and in the normal male fashion in normal mens' rooms.
By redefining "masturbation" in much the same way you have redefined "hate," he could accuse virtually every male of that act.
You've essentially redefined "hate" to be disagreement with your position and "hatemongers" to be anyone who disagrees with you.
You know, my family used to play a game on long car trips where we'd take the letters in license tags and try to form words that included those letters in that order, where the person with the shortest word won.
My mom looked at one, we'll say BCC for the sake of argument and said, "Back, if you don't care about spelling." My reply was, "Cat, if you don't care about spelling."
The point was that once you throw out the rules of spelling in the game, *any* three-letter word wins---because the rules of spelling were crucial to defining the game.
Once you throw out the conventional English-language definitions of the words "hate" and "hatemonger" in calling people a name or accusing them of a vice (this holds true of accusing people of *any* vice), you can accuse anyone of anything.
You've fallen down the rabbit hole into the wonderland, with the Mad Hatter, the Queen of Hearts, and Alice---essentially, you're asserting, "When I use a word, it means just what I want it to mean, no more and no less."
Unfortunately for you, that logically fallacious debate strategy only works when you're debating people stupid enough to let you get away with it instead of calling your illogic what it is.
Are you so used to only associating with and matching wits with stupid people that you're actually used to getting away with that sort of sophistry?
And you call yourself a "social scientist"?
I don't "hate" you, sir. But I don't respect your mind or your ability to formulate a logical argument to advance your position, and since that ability is ordinarily a prerequisite for becoming a social scientist, my initial impression is that you're not only a poor debater but also untruthful.
For the sake of clarity, if you haven't either earned a PhD in one of the social sciences from an accredited post-secondary institution *or* published an original piece of scientific research in a peer-reviewed journal of one of the social sciences, you are *not* a social scientist.
You may be an amateur with an interest in the social sciences, but to be a "scientist" you have to do original, rigorous research that adds worthwhile discoveries to the body of scientific knowledge in your field. Either having a dissertation approved by fellow scientists, or publishing in a peer-reviewed journal, meets those basic criteria.
For the sake of argument, Webster's 1913 defines "hate" in the following way:
1. To have a great aversion to, with a strong desire that evil should befall the person toward whom the feeling is directed; to dislike intensely; to detest; as, to hate one's enemies; to hate hypocrisy.
---------------------
I don't have a great aversion to you or wish you ill, I just don't have any respect for your intellectual prowess or your truthfulness (or, more precisely, your probable lack thereof).
You aren't significant enough to my life to arouse any emotional intensity even remotely approaching hate.
"
Two things....First, why post such a well thought out and intelligent response and then post it anon? You should be proud of those words.
Second.......hmmm....brother Jim????? Circa early 1980s college circuit, with the two screaming women and the bible thumping and hell raising?
No better theater have I ever seen than the hours I used to watch this complete but sincere idiot rant and rave around the university of Florida back when I went there.
Same guy?????
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 10:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-29 19:19:00, GregFL wrote:
Second.......hmmm....brother Jim????? Circa early 1980s college circuit, with the two screaming women and the bible thumping and hell raising?
No better theater have I ever seen than the hours I used to watch this complete but sincere idiot rant and rave around the university of Florida back when I went there.
Same guy?????
"
No, you are thinking of Brother Jed and his wife Sister Cindy. I don't know who the other woman is. They were regular visitors to the college campus in the town where I live.
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 02:14:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-03-29 18:49:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
"Just as I thought! Perfect science. The posts in this forum qualifies those who frequent this web site as being "the" lunatic fringe. It really shows every visitor what kind of people post replies on Fornits.
I started out telling everyone that in just one week this forum would be filled with evil and dark posts. I did not figure that it would be completed in one day. I guess I out did myself.
It does not take a rocket scientist to see that you are filled with hate. Thus, you disqualify your own statements and help the cause you are fighting. Not very effective.
Also, I will be sending the posts from "The Butcher" to the FBI. Expect a visit young lady!
"
I have no hate for you. I have pity. You must be lonely and it is evident you suffer from some form of mental illness. I pray you get the help you need.
Please consider how selfish you are to even consider contacting the FBI over such a trivial matter as what someone said to you on a message board.
Do you believe they will feel a great deal of appreciation toward you? More likely you will be placed on a watch list, be written up as a nuissance and turned over to Social Services.
You are diluded and irrational. Your words are a farce and meant to incite. Please get the help you clearly need.
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 10:23:00 AM
"Offensive thoughts flow freely from an offensive individual."
I do wonder what makes them both so hostile and hateful; epically towards Christianity. Hard to believe it just manifested itself in response to this thread.
Whatever it is; I fear for them, that they have turned their backs to Hope and Peace and Joy. I fear they have been driven into declining the free gift of salvation and will never understand until its to late. All b/c of what some person/people may have done; without even looking at the real message and considering the Truth of it.
This is about forever people. Think about that if your able.
And my Christian sibling; Remember, we are to be striving to pull people from the abyss; not shoving them into it.
Post by: GregFL on March 30, 2004, 10:24:00 AM
I picture him behind his computer, convinced of his rightousness, indulging himself and himself only with his childish debating tactics, superstitious beliefs, and idiotic mindless stepcraft worship.
Hate? Nah, I reserve hate for people and institutions who have earned it.
This one I laugh at.
Post by: FBI GUY on March 30, 2004, 10:34:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-03-29 18:49:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
Also, I will be sending the posts from "The Butcher" to the FBI. Expect a visit young lady!
"
I have received a complaint from the above esteemed social scientist. Upon review of this board, I find the butcher in substantial violation of FBI codes step7 and 3sign. Therefore, a warrant for his computer is being issued now and he is physically being turned over to straight v2.0 for adults. He won't be Coming home for some time, and his peanut butter and mayo sandwiches are being prepared as we speak. We will have his bloody little ass motivating in no time, rest assured.
Good work Words of wisdom. Once again we have relied on you to enforce the governments interest in compliance with anti-programspeak legislation. This simply cannot be allowed in the brave new bush republic, and Your efforts do not go unnoticed. Praise Jesus.
Post by: The Butcher on March 30, 2004, 10:36:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 12:23:00 PM
Quote
No, you are thinking of Brother Jed and his wife Sister Cindy. I don't know who the other woman is. They were regular visitors to the college campus in the town where I live."
Yes, Yes, Goddammit (whoops!) it is Brother Jed, the fucking lunatic!!! I remember the other girl was a girl they had "saved" (and were probably doing a three way with) that was all dressed up like an amish girl. His wife cindy loved to point and yell "fooorneeecatoooors" much to the delight of the crowd.
Brother Jed now has his own website. Go figure...
http://www.brojed.org/contents.html (http://www.brojed.org/contents.html)
Post by: FBI GUY on March 30, 2004, 12:27:00 PM
Our new patriot act considers any discussion of program advocates or street preachers an act of terrorism. You WILL be locked up without a trial. You WILL be forced to pay for these crimes.
Remember, Independent thought is dangerous and can lead to terrorists blowing up your house. This is all for your own good, trust me.
Post by: Troubled Turd on March 30, 2004, 12:34:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 02:09:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-29 18:01:00, Antibody? wrote:
"That wasn't for you Ginger you are an admirable critical thinker. It was for ding a ling. "
If you think someone using more speech to criticize your choice of speech is a police state, I feel sorry for you.
There is a difference between criticizing your choice of speech as counterproductive and advocating that it be made illegal or punished by some authority.
I still maintain that your choice of speech is likely to alienate fellow travelers and harm your own position, much in the same way that "Word of Wisdom" harms the position of all Christians by being so bizarre.
I'm not advocating that the government make your speech illegal or that some authority figure punish you for it. I'm saying you would do your own position more good by growing up a little.
Post by: Word of Wisdom on March 30, 2004, 02:53:00 PM
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=22#13335 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2317&forum=22#13335)
The truth eventually comes out.
Post by: Troubled Turd on March 30, 2004, 02:56:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 03:01:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-30 11:56:00, Turd Of Wisdumb wrote:
"Yer GOD-DAMNED right. Git them little basturds in there. Make 'em git strate!!! WHIP 'EM!! WHIP THEIR FUCKIN' LITTLE ASSES 'TIL THEY'RE BLACK AND BLUE!!!! :flame:
"
Quit screwing around, do something about that hair doo of yours.
:wave:
Post by: Troubled Turd on March 30, 2004, 03:05:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 03:05:00 PM
Quote
Yes, Yes, Goddammit (whoops!) it is Brother Jed, the fucking lunatic!!! I remember the other girl was a girl they had "saved" (and were probably doing a three way with) that was all dressed up like an amish girl. His wife cindy loved to point and yell "fooorneeecatoooors" much to the delight of the crowd.
Brother Jed now has his own website. Go figure...
http://www.brojed.org/contents.html (http://www.brojed.org/contents.html)"
I have a friend in town who is the most literate bum in the world, as well as being a damn good chess player. In the late 70s- early 80s he was a paid shill for Brother Jed, going around the country and heckling him at college campuses. The only ground rules were that he couldn't say "goddamn" or insult Sister Cindy, and that every half-hour he had to throw out a staged heckle, usually something along the lines of "what about the people who never heard of the bible? are they going to hell, too? Some God!" or "where does the bible say I can't do drugs?" or other "set-up" questions. Jed would then proceed to demonsrate his knowledge of all things theological by quoting the appropriate scripture passage. My friend had an autographed copy of Rev. Jed Smock's book, "Who Will Rise Up?", it was dedicated to him and said, in large blcak script, "REPENT!". We used to roll joints on it after he gave it to me. I may even still have it somewhere.
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 03:12:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-30 11:53:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
"Here is more of the reason why Ginger is against the Teen Help Industry. She is an advocate of drugs and drug use. She claims to be a POW of the drug war that America is fighting. This should tell everyone what kind of person is against teen programs. If Ginger had it her way, all kids would be using drugs without penalty.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=22#13335 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2317&forum=22#13335)
The truth eventually comes out."
You are a shining example of the ignorant, benighted fools who can not discriminate between advocating legalization of drugs and the use of drugs. Drug prohibition has caused far more problems than it has solved, a point well made by the book you provided the link to. Were you capable of rational thought, I would suggest you read the book and discover for yourself some of the negative consequences drug prohibition has inflicted on our society. Book burning Nazis like you should be neutered before you spread your defective DNA.
Post by: RTP2003 on March 30, 2004, 03:26:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on March 30, 2004, 03:40:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-30 11:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
There is a difference between criticizing your choice of speech as counterproductive and advocating that it be made illegal or punished by some authority.
Yeah, it's different when someone starts threatening lawsuits and criminal complaints.
WoW is demonstrating just exactly why I find the troubled parent industry to be so harmful.
[SMACK!! SMACK!!] Wake up and smell the totalism, gal!
What kind of humanism expresses its reluctance to sacrifice military casualties by devastating the civilian economy of its adversary for decades to come?
Henry Kissinger
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 04:09:00 PM
You have been looking out for angels flying too close to the ground for a very, very long time.
The power of love surrounds you.
:smile:
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 04:11:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 04:12:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The devil is seductive in his/her destructive agenda. Parents, beware of teen helpers who want to change the hearts and minds of your children.
Listen to the call to bring your sons and daughters home.
It is time.
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 04:29:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-30 11:53:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
"Here is more of the reason why Ginger is against the Teen Help Industry. She is an advocate of drugs and drug use. She claims to be a POW of the drug war that America is fighting. This should tell everyone what kind of person is against teen programs. If Ginger had it her way, all kids would be using drugs without penalty.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=22#13335 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2317&forum=22#13335)
The truth eventually comes out."
Or, maybe, just maybe, all those kids would be deciding *not* to use drugs without penalty.
If I caught my kid smoking a joint, I'd ground her for a month, not ship her off for a year to "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest--The Ride!"
I never smoked pot at all. My sister did, a couple of times. She grew out of it.
Getting out on her own and supporting herself, along with a couple more years of maturity and wisdom, did wonders.
Post by: Word of Wisdom on March 30, 2004, 04:35:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on March 30, 2004, 04:37:00 PM
The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.
-- Patrick Henry
Post by: Antigen on March 30, 2004, 04:42:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-30 13:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"FEAR NOT, Ginger.
You have been looking out for angels flying too close to the ground for a very, very long time.
The power of love surrounds you.
:) "
Thanks ::kiss:: I can feel it
Quote
On 2004-03-30 12:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
Ever read something that looks legitimate, only to see through it? That's what I get from this thread. Some itty bitty credibility in what W.O.W. is saying, but it seems like a troll to me. He/she is getting what they want, for sure. Starting is off with what kind of people are against the Teen Help Industry is a legitimate question. The rest of it seems like someone trying to make those that are for the industry look like idiots. It's working.
No, I'm pretty sure this really is Craig Rogers. And he believes every word of it.
I predict he'll be hearing from the USA lawyers soon (uh, that's United Satirists of America) for satirizing w/o a union card. Him and Donny Rumsfield.
To make certain that crime does not pay, the government should take it
over and try to run it
--G. Norman Collie
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 05:06:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-30 13:35:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
"Now now Ginger baby... hold on to your skirt. You can use your regular Fornit's name. You dont have to spew your ulginess behind the name of Anonymous (Unregistered"). We all know that it is you. But dont you have kids? Do you hope that they grow up to be users? Do you advocate drug use to your children? Beware what you write. CPS might be watching."
sigh. Words of wisdom indeed, Craigy. You are so uninformed, so reactionary, and just so idiotic that I understand why some Teen help advocates think you are trolling for the side of the critics of the insdustry.
Thanks tho. One like you does more to show how irrational and totalistic the pro-side can be than any critic could.
Post by: FBI GUY on March 30, 2004, 05:10:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-30 13:35:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
"Now now Ginger baby... hold on to your skirt. You can use your regular Fornit's name. You dont have to spew your ulginess behind the name of Anonymous (Unregistered"). We all know that it is you. But dont you have kids? Do you hope that they grow up to be users? Do you advocate drug use to your children? Beware what you write. CPS might be watching."
No need to call CPS, Words of Wisdom. We have been watching Little Mrs. Antigen for some time now. Her freee speech on the internet, combined with her questionable politics and her critical stance against the drug war have caused us to install a camera and microphone in her toilet.
We know what is going down in the formits house...believe me, we know, and its not pretty.
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2004, 05:10:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-30 13:35:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
"Now now Ginger baby... hold on to your skirt. You can use your regular Fornit's name. You dont have to spew your ulginess behind the name of Anonymous (Unregistered"). We all know that it is you. But dont you have kids? Do you hope that they grow up to be users? Do you advocate drug use to your children? Beware what you write. CPS might be watching."
The person you appear to be replying to is me, Julie Cochrane, Atlanta, Georgia, and I *don't* advocate drug use.
Get a life you jerk.
Post by: Antigen on March 30, 2004, 05:32:00 PM
It's like watching fractals unfold in prose. Never a dull moment.
Don't sweat the- Petty Things
Don't pet the- Sweaty Things
Water what you want to grow.
--Curiosity
Post by: FBI GUY on March 30, 2004, 06:12:00 PM
Drug laws are here to protect you. That is why we jail drug users, to protect them. That is why we spray poision on drug crops injested by american users...to protect them. That is why we outlaw needle exchange programs, to protect users. This is why we lock up children in rehab and brainwash and starve them...to protect them.
You don't understand because your mind is poisoned with a dangerous drug, marijuana. 30 years of government funded experiements to the tune of Millions of dollars of studies have proven that smoking marijuana in quantities equal to cigarettes may cause cancer in rats!!!! You don't care, you puff away, laughing and eating potato chips while the country goes down the toilet.
The drug war provides me a job and a good quality of life. You will not interfere with that, trust me. We will find you, we will arrest you, handcuff you and throw you in jail. Why, Because we are here to protect and serve you. Get used to the drug war, sister, it is here to stay!
It really is for your own good, I promise.
[ This Message was edited by: FBI GUY on 2004-03-30 15:14 ]
Post by: Word of Wisdom on March 30, 2004, 06:16:00 PM
Post by: FBI GUY on March 30, 2004, 06:19:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-30 15:16:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
"Rrrrriiiiiggggghhhhhtttt... If your name is Julie Cochrane then The Buthcher is the Pope. And,I got a life... a great one at that, thank you very much!"
Ahh, Mrs. Cochran, we know about you too. Word of Wisdom, keep an eye on her for me, would you please?...I am preoccupied right now with the Butcher and Ginger.
The violations around here are astounding.
Post by: The Butcher on March 30, 2004, 10:20:00 PM
Post by: FBI GUY on March 30, 2004, 10:37:00 PM
Were you not an enemy of the state for your attacks against program advocates, I would show you how a real military trained, FBI sponsored drug war veteran conducts anti personell manuevers. It would surprise and amaze you young man how easy it is to erase those that dare question the direction of the patriot act and the Bush administration's brave stance against free speech. Free speech has been ruining this country for too long. Finally a president that understands what must be done to correct this country.
Now, be gone. I have documentation, many many pages of reports, to finish. This website won't stand, be assured that this sort of commie speech orgy won't be tolerated by the bush Administration for long. Those responsible will pay, and Butcher, look before stepping around any corners. When you messed with our friend WOW, you messed with the wrong guy.
Post by: Deborah on March 30, 2004, 10:55:00 PM
thanks for the humor. it's been refreshing!!
not that you'll answer, but are both the same person?
Post by: FBI GUY on March 31, 2004, 08:15:00 AM
WIPE THAT SMILE OFF YOUR FACE.
I am here because a sincere american Patriot, word of wisdom, did his duty as an american and reported violations of the patriot act to me.
Me and the butcher are vastly different people that might as well be from different planets. My job it to stop people like him from spreading filth around the internet where people might actually read his dangerous ideas.
Fair warning sister, don't make the same mistake in the future. The differences between us would be obvious if you weren't so full of hate and dangerous drugs which, I might add, are illegal in this great country of mine.
Post by: Anonymous on March 31, 2004, 10:24:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-03-30 15:16:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
"Rrrrriiiiiggggghhhhhtttt... If your name is Julie Cochrane then The Buthcher is the Pope. And,I got a life... a great one at that, thank you very much!"
Well, dude, I guess you look like a *real* stupid nut (again), because that *is* me.
Mister Craig Rogers? (That is, presuming "Word of Wisdom is you.) You, sir, are a jerk.
Thank you for coming onto Fornits and posting so that parents for all time can see what a weird individual they would be putting their precious children in the care of if they chose your school.
You appear not to be accustomed to fora in which people who disagree with you and disapprove of your behavior can actually respond freely and without fear of reprisals to your rants.
Since Atlanta recently had an up close and personal negative experience with child-abusing religious nuts during the "House of Prayer" scandal, it's a rather sensitive issue locally.
Whether you have ever gone as far as they have or not (and you may not have), your comments (again, if Craig Rogers and "Word of Wisdom" are the same person) about demon possession should be very helpful when I speak to my state legislators about the need for legislation to protect children from our state from being transported out of state to TBS's run by anyone from you to God only knows who else.
So thank you very much for coming into an open forum and displaying yourself so vividly.
Julie Cochrane
http://www.xring.com/~julie/ (http://www.xring.com/~julie/)
Post by: FBI GUY on March 31, 2004, 10:33:00 AM
The shame here, Julie Cochrane, is that with hobbies like pistol shooting, you and I could have been an item, praising jesus, censoring websites and procreating together in patriotic bliss. That is, until I saw the things you have been writing. You, mam, have a day of reconing coming.
Be so advised.
[ This Message was edited by: FBI GUY on 2004-03-31 07:34 ][ This Message was edited by: FBI GUY on 2004-03-31 07:36 ]
Post by: Anonymous on March 31, 2004, 01:38:00 PM
By the way moron - nothing in the patriot act, as stupid as it is, gives anyone the right to do any of the things to which you elude. have you read it - "duh no." Well, if you are going to play secret agent on the internet, you should. By the way impersonating an officer of the law or court is a federal offense.
If you were an FBI agent pppppphhhhh "Secret agent man" "ba ba ba" - "givin you a number and takin way your name" - Bubba, hahahahahahh.
You would just get on with your ivestigation rather than trying to intimidate - like an idiot, by the way.
Also,the FBI is not interested in people like us who enjoy poking fun and scaring American lemmings. "Go off and play somewhere else now, like a good boy, honey" before you get arrested.
Post by: FBI GUY on March 31, 2004, 01:54:00 PM
http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html (http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html)
Understand it? Of course you don't!
IT WAS WRITTEN SO YOU WOULDN"T BE ABLE TO. This legislation wasn't for you commie pot smokers it was for us, the ruling class.
The patriot act changes existing legislation very interestingly by inserting dots, commas and the meanings of certain words.
The upshot is we can now see what you are doing, we can look in your computer, and we can stop this nasty free speech, and we can "detain" you with no trial and no charges.
You have been warned.
[ This Message was edited by: FBI GUY on 2004-03-31 11:04 ]
Post by: Anonymous on March 31, 2004, 01:56:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-31 10:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What Schizoid box did this "nut ball" crawl out of. No FBI agent would involve himself in such a stupid (albeit fun) pissing match. I don't know who or what he is but don't bother driving him or her insane - he already is.
By the way moron - nothing in the patriot act, as stupid as it is, gives anyone the right to do any of the things to which you elude. have you read it - "duh no." Well, if you are going to play secret agent on the internet, you should. By the way impersonating an officer of the law or court is a federal offense.
If you were an FBI agent pppppphhhhh "Secret agent man" "ba ba ba" - "givin you a number and takin way your name" - Bubba, hahahahahahh.
You would just get on with your ivestigation rather than trying to intimidate - like an idiot, by the way.
Also,the FBI is not interested in people like us who enjoy poking fun and scaring American lemmings. "Go off and play somewhere else now, like a good boy, honey" before you get arrested.
"
Are you serious? Don't you understand sarcasm and making a point by parody?
Get a grip antibody....
Post by: FBI GUY on March 31, 2004, 02:01:00 PM
3) a provider of remote computing service or electronic communication service to the public shall not knowingly divulge a record or other information pertaining to a subscriber to or customer of such service (not including the contents of communications covered by paragraph (1) or (2)) to any governmental entity.';
(C) in subsection (b), by striking `EXCEPTIONS- A person or entity' and inserting `EXCEPTIONS FOR DISCLOSURE OF COMMUNICATIONS- A provider described in subsection (a)';
(D) in subsection (b)(6)--
(i) in subparagraph (A)(ii), by striking `or';
(ii) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting `; or'; and
(iii) by adding after subparagraph (B) the following:
`(C) if the provider reasonably believes that an emergency involving immediate danger of death or serious physical injury to any person requires disclosure of the information without delay.'; and
(E) by inserting after subsection (b) the following: ....
SEC. 209. SEIZURE OF VOICE-MAIL MESSAGES PURSUANT TO WARRANTS.
Title 18, United States Code, is amended--
(1) in section 2510--
(A) in paragraph (1), by striking beginning with `and such' and all that follows through `communication'; and
(B) in paragraph (14), by inserting `wire or' after `transmission of'; and
(2) in subsections (a) and (b) of section 2703--
(A) by striking `CONTENTS OF ELECTRONIC' and inserting `CONTENTS OF WIRE OR ELECTRONIC' each place it appears;
(B) by striking `contents of an electronic' and inserting `contents of a wire or electronic' each place it appears; and
(C) by striking `any electronic' and inserting `any wire or electronic' each place it appears.
You starting to understand yet commie?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Your asses are mine!
Post by: kaydeejaded on March 31, 2004, 02:05:00 PM
A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trust either of them
P.J. O'Rourke
Post by: GregFL on March 31, 2004, 08:03:00 PM