Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: jnloar on March 21, 2004, 11:55:00 PM

Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: jnloar on March 21, 2004, 11:55:00 PM
Timmy and Valerie,
Hey you two - I am sorry we were not able to connect when you guys were here in Dallas.  My uncle who I had told Val about took a serious turn for the worse on that Friday night and life seems to have been one crazed something right after another since then - one reason I have not been current here for about 6 weeks.  I cannot find the paper I wrote both of your numbers down.  Email them to me and the next time you are up when can grab a drink.  Timmy, I have decided not to use Straight things like COC's, MI's - thre are copyrights and other things I do not want to have to mess with.  I am going to be interviewing people and using quotes - if you are intersted in that - I would love to do that.  Anyone who wants to tell part of their story in Straight, the PTSS we have all suffered and how you have managed to survive, feel free to email me and tell me you are interested.  I will not be to that portion of my book for, realistically, 9-18 months but will certianly keep your name in my files.  jneneloar@sbcglobal.net is my email.  

Chris and Todd,
I don't know if you all went through this whole thread but if you did not, please know that I have enormous regret for what a raging bitch I was in Straight and on staff.  I know I rode both of you all and I apologize for that.  I can tell you that I have been through years of therapy and deprogramming trying to resolve the guilt and shame I carry for inflicting the same pain I endured on others.  I have signed a contract to write a book about Straight and how horridly abusive and corrosive it was to my and everyone else's lives and souls that had to endure that place.  I truly hope that you all have been met with success, love and happiness in your lives today.
Jennifer
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2004, 12:25:00 PM
Sorry to hear about your troubles, but on the same token and during this same time period I had an uncle die, 2 friends die from heart attacks, a friend shot and murdered by his girlfriend and then she shot and killed herself and I am loosing track of my friends sent to prison this last month.  Plus my life is daily chaos, partly because people like you don't do what they say they are going to do and then come up a shit excuss 2 months later.  You could have called instead of leaving us hanging all weekend.

Here's a quote from my Attorney Ian Cantacusine,
"Avoid any dealings with this Jennifer Loar.  As an abuser claiming to be a victom her motives for writing a book will be perceived as pure greed."

  So you don't want to mess with copyrights??  I think your tring to cut corners in order to save a buck or 2, just like a greedy corperation that refuses to buy safty gear for their employees.  Your story is going to be inaccurate.  What, are you gonna go by memory and rip off Wes' web site.  Thats what it sounds like to me.  And what about the truth?  You and Steve Brooks were on the top of the abusive staff list.  And now you two are buddies again.  When you visit him in jail do you 2 claim to be victoms with a free ticket for your actions because you were treated wrong?  You claimed that you were humiliated because you were sat on the guys side.  Truth is you love male attention.  Hell, I think I am the only guy that did not fuck you after $traight.

What about when you went back on staff?  The execs wanted to put you on a grad reveiw, put you back on 1st and make you go through the program again.   But your parents gave such a nice contribution to $triaght that they put you back on staff.  What's it like buying your way through life?  I've asked myself, "How does she live with herself?" and then I remember, "she tried to kill herself a couple of times."  Well I wish better luck on your next attempts.

I am notriously know for causing corner cutters to spend much more than they tried to save. Maybe I'll post my history of exploitation and corrective measures.

I hope you've had a spritual awakening as a result of reading this post.  
If you ever make any money off of the $traight story, give it to charity or I will take it away from you and give it to them myself.  And loosing to me cost even more money, I have references.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2004, 12:43:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-25 09:25:00, Reagan Youth wrote:

"Sorry to hear about your troubles, but on the same token and during this same time period I had an uncle die, 2 friends die from heart attacks, a friend shot and murdered by his girlfriend and then she shot and killed herself and I am loosing track of my friends sent to prison this last month.  Plus my life is daily chaos, partly because people like you don't do what they say they are going to do and then come up a shit excuss 2 months later.  You could have called instead of leaving us hanging all weekend.



Here's a quote from my Attorney Ian Cantacusine,

"Avoid any dealings with this Jennifer Loar.  As an abuser claiming to be a victom her motives for writing a book will be perceived as pure greed."



  So you don't want to mess with copyrights??  I think your tring to cut corners in order to save a buck or 2, just like a greedy corperation that refuses to buy safty gear for their employees.  Your story is going to be inaccurate.  What, are you gonna go by memory and rip off Wes' web site.  Thats what it sounds like to me.  And what about the truth?  You and Steve Brooks were on the top of the abusive staff list.  And now you two are buddies again.  When you visit him in jail do you 2 claim to be victoms with a free ticket for your actions because you were treated wrong?  You claimed that you were humiliated because you were sat on the guys side.  Truth is you love male attention.  Hell, I think I am the only guy that did not fuck you after $traight.



What about when you went back on staff?  The execs wanted to put you on a grad reveiw, put you back on 1st and make you go through the program again.   But your parents gave such a nice contribution to $triaght that they put you back on staff.  What's it like buying your way through life?  I've asked myself, "How does she live with herself?" and then I remember, "she tried to kill herself a couple of times."  Well I wish better luck on your next attempts.



I am notriously know for causing corner cutters to spend much more than they tried to save. Maybe I'll post my history of exploitation and corrective measures.



I hope you've had a spritual awakening as a result of reading this post.  

If you ever make any money off of the $traight story, give it to charity or I will take it away from you and give it to them myself.  And loosing to me cost even more money, I have references.         "


You are scum of the earth Timmy Kemp. It shows in who you're friends with, and your daily actions. Fuck you.  :flame:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Froderik on March 25, 2004, 12:48:00 PM
Quote
You are scum of the earth Timmy Kemp. It shows in who you're friends with, and your daily actions. Fuck you.

This doesn't tell us much. Why don't you register your cowardly ass and PM him, or see if you can email him instead.

Or just shut the fuck up.  :idea:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: RTP2003 on March 25, 2004, 01:08:00 PM
Quote




, "she tried to kill herself a couple of times."  Well I wish better luck on your next attempts.





I do too.  It would be nice if all abusive ex-staff would off themselves.  At least then we would know that they felt remorse for what they did.  To all Straight ex-Staff:  Either do as the fine Mr. Bradbury has done, and truly fight against the bullshit that was and is Straight and its spinoffs, or kill yourself.  Those are your only choices to redeem yourselves for the crimes--yes, crimes--that you committed.  Maybe Pendergrass should go first...
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2004, 01:16:00 PM
All three of you are reptiles, and not worth my registration. Heartless cold inhuman reptiles, seething with hatred and venom. I only pity you.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: teachback on March 25, 2004, 01:20:00 PM
^^^^ ::troll:: ^^^^
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: RTP2003 on March 25, 2004, 01:30:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-25 10:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

"All three of you are reptiles, and not worth my registration. Heartless cold inhuman reptiles, seething with hatred and venom. I only pity you. "


No, I am a mammal.  If I were a reptile I would have no feelings whatsoever about Straight and the abusers who are running around scot-free and have the gall to call themselves victims.  I feel intense anger and hatred for these slimeballs, (a mammalian emotion, by the way) and it is justified.  Anonymous cowards like you have no place in judging me or others who have been through what I have and feel as I do.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2004, 01:32:00 PM
I'm not the troll, Timmy Kemp is. Most of this site's "regular users" are fucking trolls. It's pathetic how unproductive and negative this place is.

You all show what heartless drones, full of uncontrolled anger and rage you are because of Straight, Inc. every single day. Perfect examples of WHY NEVER TO SEND YOUR CHILD TO THESE PLACES. Listen to all of you! You're cruel and mean, and it's like, la-te-da~ just another day on Fornits!

GROW UP IDIOTS!!!
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Froderik on March 25, 2004, 01:32:00 PM
Quote
All three of you are reptiles, and not worth my registration. Heartless cold inhuman reptiles, seething with hatred and venom. I only pity you.

Morli? Have to ask, it just sounds so much like you.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Froderik on March 25, 2004, 01:33:00 PM
Quote
I'm not the troll, Timmy Kemp is. Most of this site's "regular users" are fucking trolls. It's pathetic how unproductive and negative this place is.

You all show what heartless drones, full of uncontrolled anger and rage you are because of Straight, Inc. every single day. Perfect examples of WHY NEVER TO SEND YOUR CHILD TO THESE PLACES. Listen to all of you! You're cruel and mean, and it's like, la-te-da~ just another day on Fornits!

GROW UP IDIOTS!!!

Yep, Morli. I knew it.  :lol:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2004, 01:36:00 PM
Nice try, but Morli I'm sure isn't the only one to think this.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Froderik on March 25, 2004, 01:37:00 PM
Bullshit, Leslie. That's you all over.  :rofl:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2004, 01:42:00 PM
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... forum=10&8 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4656&forum=10&8)

she's not the only person here... :roll:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: RTP2003 on March 25, 2004, 01:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-25 10:32:00, Anonymous
You all show what heartless drones, full of uncontrolled anger and rage you are because of Straight, Inc. every single day. Perfect examples of WHY NEVER TO SEND YOUR CHILD TO THESE PLACES.

So you agree that we are providing a valuable service to teens and their parents who may surf in here to get info on Straight-like programs.



Quote

 Listen to all of you! You're cruel and mean, and it's like, la-te-da~ just another day on Fornits!



Well, hell, honey , what do you expect?  We were inmates at the best brainwashing center in the world!  Of course we want revenge on the people that ran it.  I'd think anyone in their right mind and with an ounce of self-respect who went through what we were subjected to on a daily basis would feel the same way.  Do you remember the abuse that went on like " la-ti-da, another day at  Straight?"  Or were you even there?
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2004, 01:59:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-25 10:49:00, RTP2003 wrote:

"
So you agree that we are providing a valuable service to teens and their parents who may surf in here to get info on Straight-like programs.







yep.

Quote
were you even there?
"


fuck yeah i was. my experience damn near ruined my life. i just don't believe that resentment is worth my pain and suffering.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: RTP2003 on March 25, 2004, 02:01:00 PM
Worth your pain and suffering?  If revenge ain't worth it, why is it such a popular idea?
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 25, 2004, 02:04:00 PM
Again, different people are at different stages in dealing with this.  Maybe letting some of the anger and resentment out HERE, where it's supposed to be understood, is more healthy than other alternatives.  I don't agree with everything these guys write or do, in fact there's some of it that I think is absolutely wrong, but I've developed a thicker skin since being on the boards though.  I just blow by the stuff that either doesn't interest me or that I feel to be 'trash'.  I don't understand why everyone gets their panties in a twist about this.  I'm not defending them, or even their right to post what they want (although according to the 'terms' they do, in fact, have that right).  I'm just saying that a lot of time and energy seems to be wasted 'putting these guys in their places'.  Is it really worth it?  Do you really think they're taking in what you say??  Or do you think it just gives them more ammo?

Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)

Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2004, 02:38:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-25 11:01:00, RTP2003 wrote:

"If revenge ain't worth it, why is it such a popular idea?
"


Bovine ignorance?   :???:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Froderik on March 25, 2004, 02:43:00 PM
Wow, anon can use big words like "bovine."  :grin:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 25, 2004, 02:45:00 PM
Fair is fair Frod......that was funny.

When an innocent Californian millionaire gets killed by a drug squad
trying to seize his house with a bogus search warrant, people better ask themselves if they really want to turn their cops into money-makers.
--Vancouver Police Const. Gil Puder

Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: RTP2003 on March 25, 2004, 02:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-25 11:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-03-25 11:01:00, RTP2003 wrote:


"If revenge ain't worth it, why is it such a popular idea?

"




Bovine ignorance?   :???: "

Would that be anything like the sheep-like cowardice you display by posting anonymously? If you're going to insult us and try to belittle our anger and desire for revenge, then you should have the guts to do it without hiding.  Of course I wouldn't expect anything like courage or honor from some fool who thinks we should "let bygones be bygones".  Shits like you allow those assholes like Miller and Mel to continue their crimes.  Call it justice, call it revenge, we want it.  Apparently you think that what went on in Straight was OK, or "just a small mistake" or maybe you buy the jive that "staff was brainwashed too".  If you were a survivor of Straight's abuses, you'd be either crazy or seriously lacking in self-esteem to not want revenge.  Go on with your sheeplike existence, the ones of us with guts will see that justice gets done.  Gutless cowards like yourself apparently didn't eat enough shit at Straight--you seem like you want to continue eating it, which is exactly what you deserve, and will continue to get, as long as you are willing to let those asshole criminals get away with what they did.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Dr Fucktard on March 25, 2004, 03:01:00 PM
Anon, there's a blue chair waiting for your ass in Straight, Inc v2.0.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Dr Fucktard on March 25, 2004, 03:09:00 PM

S U B M I T O B E Y S U B M I T O B E Y
P A Y A T T E N T I O N D A M N I T Y U
S L E E P D O N T R E S I S T L O V E U
U K Y O U S A M A S H E I S Y O U R G O
D A N D C R E A T O R O F A L L L I F E
E A T O K O N O M I Y A K I T O L I V E
Y O U N E E D I T T O S U R V I V E T O
S U R V I V E R A N M A M U S T M A R R
Y U T S U C H I Y A N A N D A L W A Y S
R E M E M B E R T H E S P A T U L A I S
H O L Y A N D T H E E V I L O N I S N U
T S U B A S A I S A P E R V E R T B O Y
P U R P L E B L U I S H I S T H E O N E
T R U E C O L O R F E E L Y O U R M I N
D B L A N K G E T E P I L E P S Y W A T
C H P O K E M O N F O R E V E R T A W Y
S U B M I T O B E Y S U B M I T O B E Y
P A Y A T T E N T I O N D A M N I T Y U
S L E E P D O N T R E S I S T L O V E U
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: thepatriot on March 25, 2004, 03:11:00 PM
Annon...sounds like you should make direct ammends to the group , change your attitude and learn to love yourself!!!!!!! Now Have a Seat!!!!!!!
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: thepatriot on March 25, 2004, 03:13:00 PM
And if you don't like it apply your serenity prayer.....
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Dr. Miller Newton on March 25, 2004, 03:14:00 PM
Quote
Annon...sounds like you should make direct ammends to the group

Anon will be doing just that in the all-new Straight, Inc. v2.0!
_________________
Teenage Drug Use Is A Disease
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: thepatriot on March 25, 2004, 03:14:00 PM
OMG.....I just had a Straight Inc flash back....somebody fucking shoot me!!!!!!!
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Dr Fucktard on March 25, 2004, 03:17:00 PM
Quote
OMG.....I just had a Straight Inc flash back....somebody fucking shoot me!!!!!!!

We don't shoot druggies, we treat them for their addiction to DRUGS.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Opiod_Morphina on March 25, 2004, 03:19:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-25 10:32:00, Froderik13 wrote:

"
Quote
All three of you are reptiles, and not worth my registration. Heartless cold inhuman reptiles, seething with hatred and venom. I only pity you.

Morli? Have to ask, it just sounds so much like you."


I think so too...I noticed after I apologized to Morli I never got another nasty anon comment..
I think she logs in as herself and spouts hippie love shit then goes anon  for the hate..
But whatever floats your boat..With things like call block and IM ignore the world is much quieter :lol:
 I find myself here less and less...its getting boring and redundant...I dont see how a message board can even spark feelings....



_________________
http://www.isaccorp.com (http://www.isaccorp.com)
I play Russian Roulette every day a mans sport...with a bullet called life..How do I feel what do I say?Fuck you it all goes away..in the end it all goes away[ This Message was edited by: Opiod_Morphina on 2004-03-25 12:24 ]
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Dr Fucktard on March 25, 2004, 03:21:00 PM
My boy, I'm glad to see that you've come around. ::hehehmm::

I hope that you'll put away that "Fucktard rifle" though...  :scared:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Opiod_Morphina on March 25, 2004, 03:25:00 PM
You people were simply a way for me to entertain myself...but alas I have other things to do now..
 And you all no longer serve a purpose to me..

 You owed me that much though...all of you..


 :roll:  :lol:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Opiod_Morphina on March 25, 2004, 03:41:00 PM
And what the fuck is up with....How do you go from the most cruel Senior staffer in straight to Mrs Love and Freedom and Fairness as soon as straight closes?????


Once theres no program becking you you are just a normal person and ...if you try that shit in the real world youd get the shit knoced out of you..

 So then you all act abused and apologized...

Fuck you, Steve brooks, Jeff spearman...kathy david..brad meisal...Scott Ladd...all of you are sorry sick motherfuckers and I hope your life turns to total shit and you have kids that fucking hate you....

PLEASE never contact me again I am moving and want nothing to do with Sick Straight fucks ...

_________________
http://www.isaccorp.com (http://www.isaccorp.com)
I play Russian Roulette every day a mans sport...with a bullet called life..How do I feel what do I say?Fuck you it all goes away..in the end it all goes away[ This Message was edited by: Opiod_Morphina on 2004-03-25 12:42 ]
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2004, 03:44:00 PM
Therion, I think you ought ot reconsider what you said about Steve Brooks. I mean, didn't Morli say he was a misunderstood, sweet and loving guy deep down?

Cowboy Bob
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Dr. Miller Newton on March 25, 2004, 03:48:00 PM
The staff members, (God bless them) EVERY GODDAMNED ONE THEM, did what they could to help you low-life druggies to GET STRAIGHT!

How about showing a little appreciation??
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2004, 09:33:00 PM
you said
"You are scum of the earth Timmy Kemp. It shows in who you're friends with, and your daily actions. Fuck you.  :flame: "

I hear that a lot.  Mostly from corperate officiers and government officials I have exposed and cost a lot of money.  But the people who benefited from my tactics still thank me today.  Elderly, immates, low income, etc. But yea, the greed mongers like you are pissed.  
It's me that usually takes out the trash, your favorite word. [ This Message was edited by: Reagan Youth on 2004-03-25 18:34 ]
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Opiod_Morphina on March 26, 2004, 04:02:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-03-25 12:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Therion, I think you ought ot reconsider what you said about Steve Brooks. I mean, didn't Morli say he was a misunderstood, sweet and loving guy deep down?



Cowboy Bob"


So was Jeff Dahmer

 :roll:  :roll:  But Dahmer had style at least  :lol:

***********************************************

He had alot to say.
He had alot of nothing to say.
We'll miss him.
We'll miss him.
He had alot to say.
He had alot of nothing to say.
We'll miss him.
We're gonna miss him
We're gonna miss him
So long.
We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.
Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.
Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice that was strong and loud.
We'll miss him.
We'll miss him.
Ranting and pointing his finger
At everything but his heart.
We'll miss him.
We'll miss him.
We're gonna miss him.
We're gonna miss him.


NO WAY TO RECALL
WHAT IT WAS YOU HAD SAID TO ME
LIKE I CARE AT ALL
BUT YOU WERE SO LOUD
YOU SURE COULD YELL
YOU TOOK A STAND ON EVERY LITTLE THING
AND SO LOUD


I'm too smart when you're invisible by the bone and the symbol on you. So he bashes his skull through the window while over looking the sea. Twilight amber ego. We were amused by this


Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice that was strong and loud and I
Swallowed his facade cuz I'm so
Eager to identify with
Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me.
Will you? Will you now?
Would you die for me?
Don't you fuckin lie.
Don't you step out of line.
Don't you step out of line.
Don't you step out of line.
Don't you fuckin lie.



You've claimed all this time that you would die for me.
Why then are you so surprised when you hear your own
eulogy?





He had alot to say.
He had alot of nothing to say.
He had alot to say.
He had alot of nothing to say.



Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.
To ascend you must die.
You must be crucified


_________________
http://www.isaccorp.com (http://www.isaccorp.com)
I play Russian Roulette every day a mans sport...with a bullet called life..How do I feel what do I say?Fuck you it all goes away..in the end it all goes away[ This Message was edited by: Opiod_Morphina on 2004-03-26 01:05 ]
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: jnloar on March 26, 2004, 05:48:00 AM
I am certainly sorry that you feel such anger towards me that I was not able to follow through with our plans and evidently did not handle it the way you wanted me to.  I did exactly what I needed to for my family and when one is on the verge of dying, he does come before lunch or drinks.  I know that I did leave Val a message, I don't remember exactly when I did, obviously it was not quick enough for you. I have no control over that.  Let's be real - you were interested in me possibly buying some of the things you have and you are not happy I decided not to pursue that.  

I am not sure where you found out your 'facts' about me - they are so ludicrious I have no desire or need to even address them.  I have never denied that I was a horrid staff member, as I recall, you were on staff as well.  We may have had different styles but each and every staff member contributed in their own way to the pain and brainwashing clients suffered.  

I am happy for you to follow your attorney's advice.  If you have a different memory of Straight or want to tell your version, you are certainly entitled to do that.  I have no need to rip off Wes's site - I respect him and his fight.  I have years of journals I am drawing from along with the therapists and deprogrammer I worked with and all their documentation of my experience.  I have offered to include other's recollections if they want them included. I have no plans to name names other than in the beginning in stating the facts of how and when Straight was formed.  Obviously, my publisher has attorney's who have already advised me that the risks of lawsuits is much too great were I to do that.  Other than holding the founders accountable, I have no need to write some expose that would cause anyone who has already suffered at the hands of Straight any more pain.  I do have a fundamentally different point of view than you do - I firmly and strongly believe that every person put in Straight - regardless of how long they were there - were victims of the abusive, brainwashing tactics it operated on.

If you feel the need to continue to attack and post, not only vicious, but untrue things about me feel free.  You speak from a past that is over 15 years old. I am sorry you cannot understand that I had a family member that, yes, we knew was sick but thought had a few more months; he took a horrid turn the Friday you were here and died within the week.  I needed to be with my family and I will not apologize for that.  I do wish you well in your endeavors and in life.
Jennifer
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Carmel on March 26, 2004, 10:24:00 AM
Therion, for all your ranting and foot stomping....it makes it difficult to consider you as anything other than the exact sort of person and personality you rant and foot stomp against.

I have never seen Jennifer post here in a manner that wasnt completely honest and open...about her positives and her negatives.   AGAIN....you really know nothing about her to make any sort of judgement about how she acts feels or thinks in the present tense.  Forget Straight bullshit....if we were all the same way we were back then...we would all still be in fucking group.

I have certainly never seen her post anything about someones life going to shit and having hateful children and so forth.  You seem to have these intricate expectations of people, which to be honest, you dont seem to reciprocate in any shape or form....and when someone doesnt go 100% to plan, then they are Satan and his minions and they all need to die and burn in hell.  Be serious with me Therion....does that make sense to you?  Do you truly think that thats fair?  Look at it objectively.....

I guess I am just curious about whether or not this is how you handle people face to face.  If it is, then you need to back up and do some soulsearching....because I dont care who you are, what you have been through, or whats been done to you....there is always someone out there who has it ten times worse than you...with ten times less help than you have ever gotten.  The world, unfortunately doesnt owe any of us a damn thing.   No one is ever going to make it right for you, except you.  You have to rise above.  If someone doesnt meet your expectations...it doesnt make them a bad person.  Thats just life, its how we interact with one another.  There are lots of people who piss me off and I cant stand.  But that doesnt make them bad, nor does it make me qualified to judge them...because there are probably people out there who feel about me, the exact way I feel about that someone.

Now, some people are outright abusive and cruel and generally fucked up...but it seems you need to be more real with yourself about your labeling of people. Just because someone misses a date, or changes their mind or whatever....does not make them Hitler.  Ya dig?  

Excessive responses are reserved for the movies and 5 year olds Therion, oh...and Dr. Fucktard.  I know you want to be understood, you wouldnt post song lyrics and the like if you didnt....but maybe you could make it a little less precarious for others to do so.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Dr Fucktard on March 26, 2004, 10:33:00 AM
Carmel is right. Absolutely. Therion needs to do some soul-searching and apply empathy and sensitivity.  :lol:  

Even though you're on target Carmel, I'm going to have to start you over for insubordination. No hard feelings. You can begin relating today if you want to...
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Antigen on March 26, 2004, 10:37:00 AM
Write it, Jen.

I'd be happy to give you whatever info I can from my experience going all the way back to the early days of The Seed in Ft. Lauderdale in the early `70's through my fight to break free of the cult in `83.

But I'm going to lobby you for something here. Not that you have to do as I say, I'll give you as much info as I can regardless. But there's one aspect of this that I think is most important and that seems to get short shrift most of the time.

For most of my adult life, I kidded myself that the Program was just a small band of wackos who would certainly self destruct w/o any help from any of us. In the last couple of years, I've found that that's not the case at all. Right from the beginning, Art Barker had financial and other kinds of backing from NIDA, the Florida Governor's office and other people of influence. Today, the founders of Straight, Inc. have more influence on national and international public policy than most midsized cities.

If you're serious about examining the questions "Where did these crack pots come from and what are they up to now?" I'm all ears. What can I do to help in that effort?


BTW, if you're still in the Dallas area, you're in a good spot. Check into the backgrounds of the colorful characters involved in the sheetrock and forensic labs scandals as well as those involved in the Tulia saga. I think you'll find some fairly direct ties back to Calvina Fay's Drug-Free Business Initiative out of Houston.

Although the warehouse style treatment programs under the name Straight have all shut down over a decade ago (thanks, Richard!) the Program is still in full swing, still operating largely on public funding and on publicly mandated private funding. Remember those raps about how we'd be taking over the world so that, when we had kids, we wouldn't have to put them in the Program cause the whole country would be the program? They weren't kidding.

Don't hate the media. Become the media

--Jello Biafra



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Dr. Miller Newton on March 26, 2004, 10:42:00 AM
Quote
Forget Straight bullshit....if we were all the same way we were back then...we would all still be in fucking group.

Regardless, I will still be seeing you all in Straight Incorporated v2.0!

_________________
Teenage Drug Use Is A Disease
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Carmel on March 26, 2004, 10:48:00 AM
Hey fucktard...started over sounds like a deal....

Oh to be a newcomer again without having to watch 6 other girls' every move day after day.....ill take 1st phase anytime!  

Refreshers actually became refreshing after a while....seriously.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Carmel on March 26, 2004, 11:11:00 AM
Oh, and by the way guys...I hate to break it to you but hate, anger, and desire for revenge are unfortunately not selective emotions.  If you live your life incorporating these feelings toward Straight...it will only seep out into every other aspect of your emotional spectrum.  Soon, everything you encounter is met by an attitude tainted with anger and hate.  Thats just the way it goes.  Its easy to hate poeple and feel cheated...its harder to forgive what was done to you...and make room for healing and progress.  I hate what was done to me...it makes me angry...but I would be the first person to test the waters of forgiveness if I were to meet up with one of my tormentors.  Blaming people and and Straight is just an excuse to cover up flaws that you are afraid to try and fix, for fear that you might fail.  People view forgiveness as a weakness, when its truly the harder of the two choices to make.  Once the hate and anger is gone and they have forgiven...they are terrified of having to step up and fill that void with something positive instead....which they may not feel they know how to do.

I would feel so defeated if I ever allowed something that happened to me to rule over my life forever and make me bitter.  

I always wondered why if we were to overcome drugs and alcohol...that we had to admit to being powerless....we arent powerless.  That step always made me feel like I was running to stand still.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Dr Fucktard on March 26, 2004, 11:20:00 AM
Quote
I always wondered why if we were to overcome drugs and alcohol...that we had to admit to being powerless....we arent powerless. That step always made me feel like I was running to stand still.

Think about it, Carmel. This is part of the reason that you are started over. You MUST admit that you are powerless over your anger BEFORE you can make a decision to let it go. Be searching and fearless, I know you can do it! I have faith in you.

I know you'll be earning T&R within a week! Now bust your ass!

_________________
Stairway To Heaven = The Seven Steps
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: RTP2003 on March 26, 2004, 11:37:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-03-26 08:11:00, Carmel wrote:

"Oh, and by the way guys...I hate to break it to you but hate, anger, and desire for revenge are unfortunately not selective emotions.  If you live your life incorporating these feelings toward Straight...it will only seep out into every other aspect of your emotional spectrum.  Soon, everything you encounter is met by an attitude tainted with anger and hate.  Thats just the way it goes.

Is that your professional opinion, Doctor?

Quote
Its easy to hate poeple and feel cheated...its harder to forgive what was done to you...and make room for healing and progress.  I hate what was done to me...it makes me angry...but I would be the first person to test the waters of forgiveness if I were to meet up with one of my tormentors.

You poor sappy fool.  Do you really feel that you are so worthless that the people who tormented you should just be let off and forgiven? If someone treated my neighbor's worthless dog like Staff treated kids in Straight I wouldn't forgive them--much less for treating ME that way.

Quote
 Blaming people and and Straight is just an excuse to cover up flaws that you are afraid to try and fix, for fear that you might fail.
Is this advice free, Doctor, or do you need to see my HMO card?

 
Quote
People view forgiveness as a weakness, when its truly the harder of the two choices to make.

Forgiveness is only an option if the abuser in question has made a sincere effort to make up for what they did.  Bradbury is a good example of a Staff member who I could forgive.  Why?  Because he has demonstrated a great degree of remorse and regret for being on Staff and has made the effort to make up for it.


Quote
Once the hate and anger is gone and they have forgiven...they are terrified of having to step up and fill that void with something positive instead....which they may not feel they know how to do.
Jeez, can you quit with the pop-psychology for five minutes?


Quote

I would feel so defeated if I ever allowed something that happened to me to rule over my life forever and make me bitter.


It doesn't rule my life, but last time I checked, this was a forum for Straight, Inc. Survivors.  I just keep to the subject at hand.  We were seriously wronged by the perpetrators of that place, and I want to see justice.  If that means I am bitter, so be it.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Carmel on March 26, 2004, 11:40:00 AM
Sorry Tard...but I just dont see how its possible...being powerless over something most CERTAINLY doesnt give you the ability to make ANY decision about it.  Good or bad.  Its a Catch 22.  Taking the initiative to "let go of something" is exerting power over it, one way or another.  

I dont mind that you are a Troll....people should take more advantge in explaining why your insanity is just that, insanity...might help inform a few lurkers on the outside. Rather than telling you what a Fucktard you are.
http://www.tarddance.com (http://www.tarddance.com)
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: The Butcher on March 26, 2004, 11:40:00 AM
RTP2000 has the right attitude.

I think it'll be the trusty old cleaver today. :grin:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Dr Fucktard on March 26, 2004, 11:49:00 AM
Quote
being powerless over something most CERTAINLY doesnt give you the ability to make ANY decision about it. Good or bad. Its a Catch 22. Taking the initiative to "let go of something" is exerting power over it, one way or another.

Oh you poor misguided, stubborn girl. You're never going to progress with that attitude.

Look, it's as simple as this. First, you admit that the urge was there. The urge to rage, whatever. You're only human, right? THEN, you can go ahead and apply your 2nd step - which is where the initiative comes into play. Please take an open mind. I want to see you home in two weeks.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Carmel on March 26, 2004, 11:49:00 AM
Im not trying to be anyone's therapist...but its just in human nature that if you wrong someone and they are benevolent in return...you feel twice as bad about having wronged them...than if you meet with anger and aggression.  That only makes you defensive.  

I just feel like taking the road of forgiveness gets alot more accomplished...hate and anger only breeds more hate and anger.  There isnt resolution...and once revenge is exacted....whats left?  Revenge is never as sweet afterwards as it seems to be before it is carried out.  Revenge is narrow-minded.  

Making a difference starts with all of as individuals...not how many Frags we get like in QUAKE.  Even if its how we act and function on a daily basis...it makes a difference....if we dont start with ourselves first and just head straight for the glory and heroics...we will just end up the same sorry saps we started out as.

Revenge does not equal resolution...the hate and anger doesnt get magically taken away once our tormentors are held accountable.  It becomes bitterness and sucks the REST of our life away.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: The Butcher on March 26, 2004, 11:56:00 AM
Quote
taking the road of forgiveness gets alot more accomplished...hate and anger only breeds more hate and anger. There isnt resolution...and once revenge is exacted....whats left? Revenge is never as sweet afterwards as it seems to be before it is carried out. Revenge is narrow-minded.
Au contraire, Carmel. I doubt that you speak from experience.

Quote
Revenge does not equal resolution...the hate and anger doesnt get magically taken away once our tormentors are held accountable. It becomes bitterness and sucks the REST of our life away.

You sap. Have you ever felt the pleasure of hacking someone to death with a cleaver? Or squeezing someone's neck until they turn blue and their eyes bulge out of their head? Or feeling the bones in someone's face break as you connect with a solid punch? There is nothing so spiritually gratifying. It's better to regret something you HAVE done than something that you haven't done...
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Carmel on March 26, 2004, 12:16:00 PM
No sir, I have not experienced that....

I have however experienced having my little girls head bashed in during an automobile accident caused by some jackass not paying attention on the road.  

I know that no amount of hate anger or revenge will ever make me feel whole again...will ever bring my daughter back to me.  I could kill the whole world and I would be left with nothing but a pile of corpses and more feelings of loss.  Thats how I know that revenge is futile.  Dont talk to me about getting even.  There is no even.  Whats gone is gone, what is done is done...and if you cannot see past what you have lost then you might as well have a fucking seat.  

Shooting a staff member in the face wont give me my life back, wont help with my anxiety attacks or my paranoia, it wont add a year onto my life at the end in repayment for the one that was taken from me by the Program.  The only thing I can control is me....so I am gonna keep doing that...because backpedaling is nothing but sure failure.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: The Butcher on March 26, 2004, 12:19:00 PM
Quote
Shooting a staff member in the face wont give me my life back

I don't prefer to use guns either. ::bangin::
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 26, 2004, 12:26:00 PM
Carmel, I understand where your heart is and I agree with some of what you're saying.  I'm sorry for your loss, that's more than I can ever imagine having to deal with.  For me, this has been a place where it's been OK to deal with the anger I have.  I cannot, no matter how hard I try, just 'let it go'.  I apparently need to go through whatever process this is in dealing with what happened.  Apparently again, venting some of this anger has been helpful.  The more steam I let off, the better I feel.  I dont' believe anyone is serious about killing ex-staff (I don't think you believe that either).  It's just blowing off a lot of rage that has been repressed for years upon years upon years.  Maybe that's HOW we can get ourselves to a level where we deal with this a little better.  The anger doesn't rule my life.  It doesn't even really exist outside of these forums.  THIS is where people understand it...THIS is where I feel like it's OK to deal with it.  

Cops; you wake `em up you gotta dance with `em. They lead.
-- Jack McNulty

Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Antigen on March 26, 2004, 12:28:00 PM
Carmel, you're assuming way too much.

Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
--Anonymous

Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: ehm on March 26, 2004, 12:55:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-25 11:18:00, RTP2003 wrote:

"I think all former Straight Staff  should either start fighting the good fight, as shown by the honorable Mr. Bradbury, or take a page from the samurai handbook and commit ritual suicide.  To me, those are the only ways they can make up for the heinous actions they performed willingly, for pay.
"


The sadist cannot stand the separation of the public and the private; nor can he grant to others the mystery of their personality, the validity of their inner self...in order for him to feel his maximum power, he wants the world to be peopled with concrete manipulatable objects.
-- ERNEST BECKER, The Structure of Evil, 1968.


Diogenis Laertius in his 1st book "Lives and Opinions of Eminent Philosophers"

(1) Of all things that are, the most ancient is God, for he is uncreated.
(2) The most beautiful is Cosmos, because it is God's action.
(3) The larger is space, because it holds all things.
(4) The swiftest is mind, because it speeds everywhere
(5) The strongest is the necessity, for it matters all
(6) The wisest is the time, because he brings everything to light.
(7) The things you offer to your parents you must wait to get from your chills
(8) There is no difference between life and death
(9) Know thyself
(10) Someone asked him which is older, day or night and he replied "Night is the older by one day"
(11) Someone asked him who is the happiest man and he replied "The one who has healthy body, resourceful mind and a docile nature.

______________________________________________

Frequent or excessive anger is not useful; in fact it is likely to have a negative effect on your health, to spoil your relationships with others and to limit your life experiences and ability to achieve happiness. Here is a guide which asks if you have any of the following symptoms of excessive unhealthy anger:

- A pattern of repeating the same angry words or deeds in particular situations.
- An inclination to shout at people or to use violent words
- A tendency to brood or fantasize about angry scenes with people
- An inability to deal with difficult situations without becoming angry
- A temptation or recourse to violence, possibly resulting in trouble with the law
- A reliance on getting angry to make you feel better
- Substituting getting angry about a problem for solving or learning to live with that problem
- Anger-linked health problems such as hypertension or digestive trouble
- Being recognized as an angry person and so teased, appeased or feared by others
- Having a strong prejudice against strangers because of their race, gender, views etc.
- Avoiding situations because you fear your temper.

________________________________________________


If you want to view Ray Bradbury as a hero, that?s your prerogative, but don?t place such expectations on all the victims of Straight who want to move on with their lives, heal from their wounds, and love and be happy with the families they have today. The way you guys are going about it, you won't be getting justice, just a wasted life. It just seems futile. Nothing can bring back those wasted years. No amount of punishment, or legal compensation can give you back your childhood, or your 20s and 30s either. It?s gone, move the hell on, or perish in your own resentment and discord. Waiting to watch them burn is never going to get you anywhere, except OLDER.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Carmel on March 26, 2004, 12:58:00 PM
I agree with you Cayo....absolutely.  Everyone is entitled to be angry, as well as process what was done to them in whatever way they can best handle.  

The part I have a problem with is the attacking of each other.  We are all here to vent and understand one another...more or less, and the cruel attacks just really bother me because I dont care who you are or what part you played in this fiasco called Straight...if you have found this site, you are looking to do the right thing...ex-staff or no.  Straights foundation was based on cruelty, and I wont have any part of it.  

Cesare Vennegoni just recently logged in to this site, he was a staff member when I was in.  I hated him to no end, he was cruel, he was mean, he was obsessed with the program.  He was particulary awful to me and was the main reason I decided to put my life on the line and run away from that place and into god knows what on the streets.  Now he is just a person trying to be whatever it is that he can, as best he can, I think.  I spoke briefly with him, explained why I felt the way I did about him, and I felt better.  I didnt have to attack him to get past it.  Now, everyone is different....but I know that in the past would have been more confrontational and problably have gotten poorer results...so if I cant speak for others...I can certainly compare my experience with both tactics and share it with others.  

Cayo...I am sorry I have not responded more to your postings and explainations of your feelings...they are all very valid to me and make alot of sense.  I am not trying to call anyone out or put anyone down...I just want to present a different option to those kind of feelings that may be helpful....ultimately, it has nothing to do with supporting staff or the program or whatever...it has to do with personal healing.  At least in my perspective.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 26, 2004, 01:04:00 PM
I don't have a problem with any of that.  As I said, I can agree with much of what you say, however....as in real life...we all end up paying the consequences for our actions.  Anyone on staff that comes here may very well be remorseful, but they're just going to have to develop a thicker skin until it calms down.  You and I have been around here for a while adn have seen the ups and downs of the boards.  Most of the people who are really angry right now have just found these.  I can understand their rage.  It still comes up in me, but I guess I've gotten more used to dealing with it in the time that I"ve been here...they haven't had that chance yet.   That's all I'm trying to say.

If triangles had a God, He'd have three sides.
--Old Yiddish proverb

Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: The Butcher on March 26, 2004, 01:05:00 PM
Despite your prattling, pontificating, and all of your mental gymnastics, you haven't convinced me that "moving on" is the solution to anything.

You do it your way, we'll do it our way. Fair enough? Now shut up, turn your other cheek, and go back to church...
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Carmel on March 26, 2004, 01:07:00 PM
Sorry Ginger...I truly wasnt trying to assume anything.  I thought it would be a useful point on how I feel about anger and revenge.  I just dont think it gets anyone anywhere.  Not that it isnt a valid emotion...but whats the answer to resolving anger?  I dont believe it is revenge.  I would hate to see someone else make choices based on an unrealistic need for justice and come up wanting.  Thats all.  I dont think it has to be a road frought with pain all the way, not that  pain isnt an integral part of the journey though.

I think places still operating should be shut down, I think  all those still calling the shots should be held accountable.....but even if all of that were to happen, I would be no more or less healed by it.  I feel thats something I have to face on my own and from the bottom up not the top down.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: RTP2003 on March 26, 2004, 01:20:00 PM
What do you call twenty ex-Staff members jumping off a bridge together?

A good start.


Hey Staff boy? Are you lonely? Depressed? Feeling like no one understands? Like it's not worth going on?

THEN KILL YOURSELF!

I learned all kinds of psychological torture techniques at Straight and I think it's time to put them to use.  If I can get just one Staff member to kill themselves, it will be worth it.  Of course, I'd rather that more than one did.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: The Butcher on March 26, 2004, 01:23:00 PM
Quote
The way you guys are going about it, you won't be getting justice, just a wasted life.

I don't think of it this way. I like killing the people that I set out to kill. Sure their life may be taken from them, (by me) but the pleasure that the act of bludgeoning, stabbing, hacking, or otherwise brutalizing my victims makes it all worthwhile, to me. So I don't consider it a waste at all.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: ehm on March 26, 2004, 01:23:00 PM
Quote
Most of the people who are really angry right now have just found these. I can understand their rage. It still comes up in me, but I guess I've gotten more used to dealing with it in the time that I"ve been here...they haven't had that chance yet. That's all I'm trying to say.


A lot of them are regular users. I can understand their rage, but does it have to be at the other members? expenses? Has anyone ever heard of respecting common decency towards fellowman? ?Haven?t had the chance? to do what? Fully be abusive and threatening? Act like raging, psychos spouting about death, and suicide like it?s okay to wish death on people? I do understand where you?re coming from, but I disagree with a lot of it obviously .  I did however like your take on RHPS.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: The Butcher on March 26, 2004, 01:26:00 PM
Anybody want to fill me in about this Steve Brooks guy? There was a question raised about whether he was a good staff member or a bad staff member. I'd like to know more... :grin:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: The Butcher on March 26, 2004, 01:29:00 PM
I know your works. You are neither cold nor hot. So because you are lukewarm, I will spew you out of my mouth. You can build your filthy world without me. I took the father. Now I'll take the son. You tell young Vallon I'm gonna paint Paradise Square with his blood. Two coats. I'll festoon my bedchamber with his guts. As for you, Ms. Tammany-fucking-Hall, you come down to the Points again, and you'll be dispatched by my own hand. Get back to your celebration and let me eat in peace.  :skull:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: RTP2003 on March 26, 2004, 01:36:00 PM
Quote

If you want to view Ray Bradbury as a hero, that?s your prerogative, but don?t place such expectations on all the victims of Straight who want to move on with their lives, heal from their wounds, and love and be happy with the families they have today. The way you guys are going about it, you won't be getting justice, just a wasted life. It just seems futile. Nothing can bring back those wasted years. No amount of punishment, or legal compensation can give you back your childhood, or your 20s and 30s either. It?s gone, move the hell on, or perish in your own resentment and discord. Waiting to watch them burn is never going to get you anywhere, except OLDER.

"



Go touch a mountain ya hippy kook!   So I'm an evil sadist, huh?  How come I never was on Staff then? Seems like that would be the place for an evil sadist.  This "let it go" bullshit is ridiculous, as are your psychobabble filled posts.  I know it's not going to give me back my childhood, nothing can do that.  But it will give me some satisfaction to see those responsible for the abuses at Straight held accountable for their actions.  And it will bring a tear of joy to my eye and a salute from me if I hear of any more ex-Staff members killing themselves.  They owe us, Maude, and if they aren't going to fight the program (including other forms of Stepcraft, not just Straight) and do some good with their lives, then they could at least have the decency and sense of honor to commit suicide.  Way to go, Jeff!  We're proud of ya!
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 26, 2004, 01:37:00 PM
Well, I think the thing with the regulars was about personal stuff, not Straight stuff.  Unfair comparison.  

As far as the wishing they would commit suicide.....that's not the way I would handle it, but first, I don't think it's really serious, and second...I don't think that would really make some ex-staff that happened upon this site to off themselves.  They might be upset, but again, they need to develop a little thicker skin.  I'm not saying you don't have a point, but everyone does this at their own pace.

Glad someone else noticed the RHPS reference!! ::cheers::

People everywhere enjoy believing things that they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know.
BROOKS ATKINSON (1894-1984), Once Around The Sun, 1951.

Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: The Butcher on March 26, 2004, 01:39:00 PM
I'm going to paint paradise square with their blood. Two coats. ::stab::
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: RTP2003 on March 26, 2004, 01:39:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-26 10:26:00, The Butcher wrote:

"Anybody want to fill me in about this Steve Brooks guy? There was a question raised about whether he was a good staff member or a bad staff member. I'd like to know more... :grin: "


So you're basically asking, is he a dead Staffer or a living Staffer, since, with very few exceptions, the ONLY good Staffers are ones that are dead.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: The Butcher on March 26, 2004, 01:42:00 PM
I don't give a tupenny fuck about your moral conundrum! Everybody owes, and everybody pays.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: ehm on March 26, 2004, 01:50:00 PM
Hahaha... That's awesome.  I don't even like the Grateful Dead. I just call it an alternative to hatred.  


cayohueso: We can agree to diagree about whether is was or was not Straight/board related. I do agree that everyone does this at their own pace.

 :smile:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: The Butcher on March 26, 2004, 01:52:00 PM
At my challenge, by the ancient laws of combat, we are met at this chosen ground, to settle for good and all who holds sway over the five points: us natives, born rightwise to this fine land, or the foreign hordes defiling it.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: RTP2003 on March 26, 2004, 01:53:00 PM
Quote
I just call it an alternative to hatred.  





You say that as if hatred were a bad thing....
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: The Butcher on March 26, 2004, 01:56:00 PM
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2004, 02:41:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-26 08:56:00, The Butcher wrote:

"

 It's better to regret something you HAVE done than something that you haven't done..."


And if you see your mom this weekend, tell her Satan, Satan, Satan ::rocker::
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Antigen on March 26, 2004, 03:16:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-26 10:23:00, Maude wrote:

 psychos spouting about death, and suicide like it?s okay to wish death on people?


"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."
--Clarence Darrow

It is ok to wish it. Just not to act on it. That's all.

The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are constitutional rights secure.
-- Albert Einstein

Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: The Butcher on March 26, 2004, 03:19:00 PM
Look to me! Who is this under my knife!  :wave:
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2004, 03:30:00 PM
Jennifer, when I went on staff I had a motive in mind.  That was to make changes.  The main thing I wanted to do was get the young kids withdrawn that did not need to be there.  I had a meeting with Ann Petito about Greg Peay, 13 years old and not an addict.  When I told her that there was no need to keep people like him in the program, she responded with "We are treating him at the early stages of his disease, and he needs to be here."
I was the only staffer that actually took clients out of group for their WEEKLY 1 on 1's.  I was the lone ranger tring to change the place, but out numbered by abusive ass nazi's like you.  I rarely hung out with any of you guys.  I became sibling staff because it was a layed back non-yelling job.  You guys ganged up on me and got me fired for being a "weak" staffer.

For you guys who say "I would have never gone on staff,"  check out the movie "Run Away Jury"
Sometimes going in under-cover can help our causes.  Just think if everyone of you guys did it.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: taureana on March 26, 2004, 04:15:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-26 10:26:00, The Butcher wrote:

"Anybody want to fill me in about this Steve Brooks guy? There was a question raised about whether he was a good staff member or a bad staff member. I'd like to know more... :grin: "


I have heard so many countless people talk about how horrible Steve was.

But I always liked him.  Yes, he could be a REAL total jerk sometimes.  I had seen him spiteful and cocky and arrogant.

But I was a kid who seemed to be easily lost in the crowd and forgotten.  I was 17 more than 100 miles away from home so I had no hosthome of my own and no car.  Being that I was a girl, my resources for using parents to drive me to job interviews was extremely limited.  It was too late in the year to go to school when I finally made 3rd phase and I couldn't get a job to save my life.

Steve stood me up in 3rd & 4th phase rap to ask me why I hadn't put in for 4th phase.  When I explained about not having worked or gone to school and my situation, he sat me back down and moved on to someone else.  I felt almost jaded.  He didn't let anyone reach out to me or nothing.  That very week, he pulled me out of group and sent me to work in a warehouse for a day with two guys and told me that I now had no excuse to not put in for 4th phase.

The next week I was approved for 4th phase, after only working 1 day.

I didn't see Steve for awhile after that, and I ended up on a 4th phase phase-review because I was turning 18 the next month and everyone was afraid I was gonna walk.  Steve saw me sitting in group and handed me a Big Book with some research to do and assignments.  My phase review lasted only 1 week.  I feel very strongly that he had something to do with my approval to get off of the phase review.

I don't think he was as such a bad guy as everyone makes him out to be.  But that's my personal opinion based on how he treated me.[ This Message was edited by: taureana on 2004-03-26 13:18 ]
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2004, 04:51:00 PM
Stephen has more personality, charisma, humor and talent that any of you low-lifes that are just jealous 'cause all the girls wanted him and not you!  

Stephen ----> ::kiss:: <---- Us girls
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2004, 05:07:00 PM
well, today he's in jail ####### men.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2004, 05:45:00 PM
And Jennifer, you never left Valorie a message.  I understand taking care of family, but it would have taken 15 seconds to call us. And yes we are totally different.  You saw Jason P.'s flier and judgementally stated that you would not go to that party because of the people, "not your cup of tea."  As far as you not buying my files to research, I don't really care.  I would have given them to you if it came down to it.  But your right, we have different veiwpoints.  I've hoped for someone to write a story that would be interesting for non-straight people to read.  Honestly, most of this stuff is boring to the average person.  It's going to take a very interesting story for anyone to read past the first page.  And from the ideas you told me on the phone BORING.   Plus the story coming from you with the role you played doesn't set well with a lot of people.  As far as my facts, I have witnesses.  Explain how you got back on Sr. Staff after tring to kill yourself again.  I am right and you know it and your dad is too ashamed to admit it. Or maybe you don't know, your kinda blind like that.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Antigen on March 26, 2004, 05:50:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-26 09:16:00, Carmel wrote:

Shooting a staff member in the face wont give me my life back, wont help with my anxiety attacks or my paranoia, it wont add a year onto my life at the end in repayment for the one that was taken from me by the Program.


True, but I find public condemnation of them and their actions to be very validating. I don't care if it comes from the media, some stranger on a bus, some governmental authority or my fellow droogies. It just feels so good and assures me just a little more each time that my grandkids will be safe. Who knows? By the time my grandkids have kids, maybe they'll be able to trust a cop?

Hope springs eternal.

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.  
-- Hunter S. Thompson

Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2004, 06:34:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-26 14:45:00, Reagan Youth wrote:

"And Jennifer, you never left Valorie a message.  I understand taking care of family, but it would have taken 15 seconds to call us. And yes we are totally different.  You saw Jason P.'s flier and judgementally stated that you would not go to that party because of the people, "not your cup of tea."  As far as you not buying my files to research, I don't really care.  [LIE]I would have given them to you if it came down to it.[/LIE]  But your right, we have different veiwpoints.  I've hoped for someone to write a story that would be interesting for non-straight people to read.  Honestly, most of this stuff is boring to the average person.  It's going to take a very interesting story for anyone to read past the first page.  And from the ideas you told me on the phone BORING.   Plus the story coming from you with the role you played doesn't set well with a lot of people.  As far as my facts, I have witnesses.  Explain how you got back on Sr. Staff after tring to kill yourself again.  I am right and you know it and your dad is too ashamed to admit it. Or maybe you don't know, your kinda blind like that."
Quote
Sorry to hear about your troubles, but on the same token and during this same time period I had an uncle die, 2 friends die from heart attacks, a friend shot and murdered by his girlfriend and then she shot and killed herself and I am loosing track of my friends sent to prison this last month. Plus my life is daily chaos, partly because people like you don't do what they say they are going to do and then come up a shit excuss 2 months later. You could have called instead of leaving us hanging all weekend.

Here's a quote from my Attorney Ian Cantacusine,
"Avoid any dealings with this Jennifer Loar. As an abuser claiming to be a victom her motives for writing a book will be perceived as pure greed."

So you don't want to mess with copyrights?? I think your tring to cut corners in order to save a buck or 2, just like a greedy corperation that refuses to buy safty gear for their employees. Your story is going to be inaccurate. What, are you gonna go by memory and rip off Wes' web site. Thats what it sounds like to me. And what about the truth? You and Steve Brooks were on the top of the abusive staff list. And now you two are buddies again. When you visit him in jail do you 2 claim to be victoms with a free ticket for your actions because you were treated wrong? You claimed that you were humiliated because you were sat on the guys side. Truth is you love male attention. Hell, I think I am the only guy that did not fuck you after $traight.

What about when you went back on staff? The execs wanted to put you on a grad reveiw, put you back on 1st and make you go through the program again. But your parents gave such a nice contribution to $triaght that they put you back on staff. What's it like buying your way through life? I've asked myself, "How does she live with herself?" and then I remember, "she tried to kill herself a couple of times." Well I wish better luck on your next attempts.

I am notriously know for causing corner cutters to spend much more than they tried to save. Maybe I'll post my history of exploitation and corrective measures.

I hope you've had a spritual awakening as a result of reading this post.
If you ever make any money off of the $traight story, give it to charity or I will take it away from you and give it to them myself. And loosing to me cost even more money, I have references.



From the sounds of it you're keeping some pretty top choice company there Timsters. I?ve got to hand it to you buddy because, you did nothing here but openly publicize what a stupid low-life asshole you are. I have a little advice for you: Next time you want to throw insults at someone else, try NOT making yourself look like a classless moron in the process. It might help conceal what you do a poor job hiding on your own. BTW, It?s ?YOU?RE? not ?YOUR? when wanting to say, ?YOU ARE? you dipshit.

Now, repeat after me: ?The rain in Spain falls mainly in the plain.?
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: RTP2003 on March 26, 2004, 06:49:00 PM
Quote
you did nothing here but openly publicize what a stupid low-life asshole you are.



Yeah, that was pretty lame of him to report the nursing home he worked for.  And that thing with the jail--totally uncalled for.  Obviously the work of a low-life asshole.  What a creep.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2004, 10:26:00 PM
Be careful of your thoughts for your thoughts become your words. Be careful of your words for your words become your actions. Be careful of your actions for your actions become your habits. Be careful of your habits for your habits become your character. Be careful of your character for your character becomes your destiny. -- Frank Outlaw
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: jnloar on March 27, 2004, 12:22:00 AM
I am not sure what Opera v Springer means in your reply but in response to my trying to kill myself post Straight...at no point did I try to kill myself while Straight was still open.  I am not sure what your memory is of that but since I am the one who would have had to attempt it - I know I would remember it.  If you are talking about the attempt we talked about on the phone, that was at age 25 while I was in the midst of deprogramming and realizations of how fucked up not only Straight was, but I was as well.  Straight had been closed for at least 3 years by then.  
And I won't disagree with you about the party.  I think we have different definitions but whatever.  It had nothing to do with Jason giving it - I am not into the music and as I told you, I would never tell people not to do drugs - I think that is everyone's choice.  I choose not to and I am not comfortable being around while they are being used.  I think of that as my choice - if it is judgmental then I will own that.  As I said before, I wish you well.
Jennifer
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: jnloar on March 27, 2004, 02:55:00 AM
Ginger,
Thank you for your post.  I will PM you about some things I know and see if we have the same thoughts and info.  You have been at this much longer than I and I am eager to find out how I can be of use in exposing the people behind the program.  Despite some of the richer things said here, I actually hope to help ALL of us hurt by Straight.
Warmly,
Jennifer
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: jnloar on March 27, 2004, 03:05:00 AM
also Timmy, I never was a Sr. staff member and did not come back as a Sr. either. I left as a Jr and never went past that.
Jennifer
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2004, 03:29:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-26 15:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-03-26 14:45:00, Reagan Youth wrote:


"And Jennifer, you never left Valorie a message.  I understand taking care of family, but it would have taken 15 seconds to call us. And yes we are totally different.  You saw Jason P.'s flier and judgementally stated that you would not go to that party because of the people, "not your cup of tea."  As far as you not buying my files to research, I don't really care.  [LIE]I would have given them to you if it came down to it.[/LIE]  But your right, we have different veiwpoints.  I've hoped for someone to write a story that would be interesting for non-straight people to read.  Honestly, most of this stuff is boring to the average person.  It's going to take a very interesting story for anyone to read past the first page.  And from the ideas you told me on the phone BORING.   Plus the story coming from you with the role you played doesn't set well with a lot of people.  As far as my facts, I have witnesses.  Explain how you got back on Sr. Staff after tring to kill yourself again.  I am right and you know it and your dad is too ashamed to admit it. Or maybe you don't know, your kinda blind like that."

Quote
Sorry to hear about your troubles, but on the same token and during this same time period I had an uncle die, 2 friends die from heart attacks, a friend shot and murdered by his girlfriend and then she shot and killed herself and I am loosing track of my friends sent to prison this last month. Plus my life is daily chaos, partly because people like you don't do what they say they are going to do and then come up a shit excuss 2 months later. You could have called instead of leaving us hanging all weekend.



Here's a quote from my Attorney Ian Cantacusine,

"Avoid any dealings with this Jennifer Loar. As an abuser claiming to be a victom her motives for writing a book will be perceived as pure greed."



So you don't want to mess with copyrights?? I think your tring to cut corners in order to save a buck or 2, just like a greedy corperation that refuses to buy safty gear for their employees. Your story is going to be inaccurate. What, are you gonna go by memory and rip off Wes' web site. Thats what it sounds like to me. And what about the truth? You and Steve Brooks were on the top of the abusive staff list. And now you two are buddies again. When you visit him in jail do you 2 claim to be victoms with a free ticket for your actions because you were treated wrong? You claimed that you were humiliated because you were sat on the guys side. Truth is you love male attention. Hell, I think I am the only guy that did not fuck you after $traight.



What about when you went back on staff? The execs wanted to put you on a grad reveiw, put you back on 1st and make you go through the program again. But your parents gave such a nice contribution to $triaght that they put you back on staff. What's it like buying your way through life? I've asked myself, "How does she live with herself?" and then I remember, "she tried to kill herself a couple of times." Well I wish better luck on your next attempts.



I am notriously know for causing corner cutters to spend much more than they tried to save. Maybe I'll post my history of exploitation and corrective measures.



I hope you've had a spritual awakening as a result of reading this post.

If you ever make any money off of the $traight story, give it to charity or I will take it away from you and give it to them myself. And loosing to me cost even more money, I have references.





From the sounds of it you're keeping some pretty top choice company there Timsters. I?ve got to hand it to you buddy because, you did nothing here but openly publicize what a stupid low-life asshole you are. I have a little advice for you: Next time you want to throw insults at someone else, try NOT making yourself look like a classless moron in the process. It might help conceal what you do a poor job hiding on your own. BTW, It?s ?YOU?RE? not ?YOUR? when wanting to say, ?YOU ARE? you dipshit.



Now, repeat after me: ?The rain in Spain falls mainly in the plain.?  "


 :lol: yea, my spelling sucks.  I've asked for spell check on this thing twice.  I've had it out with a few English teachers over not following the rules of American literture.  But with you I don't need spell check.  You'll do that for me.  Will you go through all my posts and correct my mistakes?  

I'll be moving out of Midland in four weeks and I'll be done with the top choice people here.

Reagan Youth has a song called "Got No Class"
it fits me well, "I've got no class, I am just my undescrible, unique self."
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Antigen on March 27, 2004, 03:43:00 PM
Quote
?The rain in Spain falls mainly in the plain.? "


Ugly people :question:  :question:  :question:

The clearest way into the Universe is through a forest wilderness.
-- John Muir

Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2004, 07:12:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-03-27 12:43:00, Antigen wrote:

"
Quote

?The rain in Spain falls mainly in the plain.? "


Ugly people :question:  :question:  :question:

The clearest way into the Universe is through a forest wilderness.
-- John Muir



I don't get it...
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: kalideskoper on March 29, 2004, 03:04:00 PM
hello all,
I just had the chance to get on here and say a little bit. I just wanted to confirm that I am friends w/ Timmy, I drove Timmy to Dallas to make his deal w/ Jennifer, visit Jason and my family. I went to Jason's party, VERY out of my relm, but I did get to see Jason.(looked good)
I do not listen to that kind of music. I told Timmy on the way home that I was terrified that I was going to be the virgin - virgin sacrifce at the party because of all the weird things I had heard about Jason. They are not all true. (DONT MEAN TO RUIN YOUR REP JASON - HE IS REAL BAD THOUGH) I stayed for an hour, freaked out completely because they were smokin' weed in the kitchen. I swear to god.... I held my breathe I was so freaked.
I remember Jennifer a little. We didn't get along great, but I do recall how I loved her folks. I remember laying on the trampoline in the back yard on third phase w/ Jennifer talking about what comes after Straight. I remember going to meetings, jamming to White Lion, whom I still listen to, and I remember the Blazer she got and the day she hit a cat. I laughed and she cried.
I have some bad memories, and I have some good memories. I have been thru therapy, and have had a difficult time finding my place in this world. All I can say is that no one in straight has offended me to the point that I wish them dead. I made some wonderful friends!!! I found some people to admire, characteristics that I hope I have and some I still hope to attain. When I spoke to Jennifer about our visit I sensed the hesitancy in her voice. I don't blame her. If she truely carries guilt around w/ her and is aware of anything that she may have done that was wrong she has every right to be guarded. I have no problem meeting anyone from Straight. I hurt NO ONE!!! of this I am sure, except maybe Carmen York. I apologized to her though and we are friends now. Anyways, I am so open to the possibility that my next best friend may have purple hair and black fingernails. I am not perfect, why should anyone else be. I seek only those that have some grasp of moral lines that cannot be crossed and a self worth that no one can take away with out a fight.
Jennifer, please call me......
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2004, 03:31:00 PM
hey Valorie, I just ran into Timmy and he is showing me this site.  Do you remember me? Kyle Seal, I was in Straight Dallas a few months of the summer during 1988.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: kalideskoper on April 06, 2004, 03:38:00 PM
Are you rich and single???? ::kiss::
Then yes, I remember you fondly. I felt drawn to you from the moment I saw you.

If not, sorry no recollection....

Seriously, the name rings a bell but I cannot put a face to it. E-mail me or call me directly, my agent Mr.Kemp has my #. The call is only $1.99 per minute so I won't keep you long.  :lol: HA/HA
Really call me.
Title: Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
Post by: glider on April 07, 2004, 05:26:00 AM
Concerning Jennifer Loar,
During my incarceration at Straight, Jennifer was downright mean to me and I could get specific as I remember it like yesterday. But I proclaim to all of you, and especially Jennifer, that I have 100% closure with her and forgive her fully. In fact, its people like Jennifer that is precisely the reason I came to this site. In fact, I pray for her (in a way as i dont' believe in God) that she is able to forgive herself and live a life free from the haunting of Straight, the same thing I am searching for. If I didn't provide that peace of mind for her, and myself, then I'm the same asshole I was while in Straight, when my character was at its worst in terms of integrality, kindness, and on down the list. Jennifer, you deserve to live a life without being terrorized by your memories of Straight, as do I and I hope that we have both taken a step in that direction which I think we have. God Bless you.

Concerning Steven Brooks,
Most hardened criminals are still nice to their family and friends, its the rest of society that they don't have a problem fucking over and that?s why we lock them away. We don't need to go out of our way to have him locked up, he is doing that just fine on his own. He is exactly the kind of person prisons were built for and precisely the person that Anne Petito, Lori Means, Amy Cameron, Ms. Reily promptly promoted as representing a senior staff member for his cruelty and disregard for his fellow man, a perfect Straight peer staff. I'll allow room in my heart for his potential to change into a decent human being but I don't foresee that happening nor do I see that happening with the likes of Executive staff however it would be highly meaningful for me if they did and I will do everything I can to facilitate that change.
I want the nightmare to end. I want it to end for me, I want it to end for those of you who are reading this message, and I even want the nightmare and the insanity to end for those I hate most, the executive staff, Miller Newton, and the Semblers for they only spread cruelty and hate and my goal is to stop the abuse and stop feeding the hate that?s haunting me for far to long.
~John