Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: spots on February 22, 2004, 08:20:00 PM
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As Ginger suggests, "become the media". Another anecdote, to give you a view into Real Life at WWASPS:
We three went to the mall yesterday in Sacramento...Grandpa, me, and The Kid. She chose as her treat at Trader Joe's a small 8oz. container of mixed fruit globs covered in chocolate. Driving in the car on the way home...
"...I got a really big container of these for Christmas at Casa, about 3 times this size. It had some other stuff too, seasoned cashews, gummy somethings, other candy. [from her mother, who would not be able to speak once to her during her 10-month stay at Casa By The Sea because staff insisted no communication with your own child if she was not a Level III]. I ate as much as I could on Christmas Day, because at the end of the day, they [staff] took all the Christmas food goods from everybody and threw them away."
Same sort of scarey fatalistic story, knowing it was terribly wrong but powerless except for the re-telling to someone. That re-telling is a good treatment for her PTSD.
Is the cruelty of destroying a child's privacy, personal property, her only present from home, her link with the outside world a necessary act of "family healing" that WWASPS harps on? Or is it just another example of poor people run amok, people whose small pitiful joy on Christmas Day is to sadistically destroy whatever is in reach? Can WWASPS point to such officially-condoned behavior and explain it as accountability, integrity, knowing the real self, "results oriented" Program action? Did it help? It set up another brick in the strong wall of hate that this child is attempting to dismantle every free day.
WWASPS parents, Merry Christmas to you. Your gift is poison and meaness, and your children are learning by example how to treat the world around them when they finally return to it.
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actually been told the same thing and that the planters were filled with vomit because the kids gourged themselves- seems sort of sadistic to have it taken away at the end of Christmas day..I was told that upper levels would go through with big bags and take it away too because they had "earned" the privledge to consume goodies past Christmas...sorry she had to experience that but glad she has an understanding set of grandparents- it makes a big difference.
the only way I can rationalize the policies is to remember the warranty on children- it seems that children are considered a commodity and that thinking can lead to a who cares what they want or feel attitude....not much is surprising given that thinking......what is really surprising to me is that through training caring parents go along.
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My son shared after he came home from the Program,that he did not recieve his Christmas package.It had been sent a few weeks prior.It was full of "acceptable" gifts of food, candy and gifts of warm clothes,gloves ,socks.He had been told it had not yet been received at the facility. My son spent his first Christmas away from home believing his parents who had sent him to such a place did not love him enough to send a Christmas gift. He spent Christmas sad and angry. He was told this by his "loving" family rep in Montana who promised me she would care for my son while he was entrusted in her care.
Needless to say I was never informed of this until after he came home. He really believd I did not send a Christmas present.
To say I despise these sick people is an under statement.I dont have the words to express the rage I feel at them and at myself for trusting the untrustworthy liars..
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Parents who send their kids to reform-style schools and programs in rurals parts of the U.S. or even overseas, should not do so without seriously factoring in the potential for maltreatment. I mean, it is no accident many of these places operate in areas where regulatory oversight is as minimal as the real estate is cheap. Being cost-conscience is understandable, but parents would be wise to look for solutions closer to home rather than "bet the farm" (so to speak) on a program-of-choice that is inherently risky.
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About the foreign placed program;
In my ignorance, I thought it was a plus.
I thought of it as a valuable educational and cultural experience; something akin to Outward Bound's summer treks in Costa Rica; or even a sort of Jr. Peace Core type of situation.
I thought how much I would have loved to be able to travel to a beautiful country with such an abundance of wild life, and a population of warm friendly, well educated people.
The distance concerned me; but I felt it was an unreasonable fear based on my own tendency for anxiety. I didn't want to let my problem with anxiety deprive my kid of a wonderful experience as part of his sobering up and rehab.
And while I admit I was way wrong about exactly what I was sending my kid into; you all here know; it would've been more or less the same if he'd been in New York or South Carolina. In some respects I was right. He did get to see some beautiful sights and he is glad to have been there to see them. So, I guess my point is; the foreign location was Not the problem.
I do understand why you say what you say about it; but there are programs just as dangerous and brutal in your own back yard, so to speak, and while several foreign programs have been closed down, most in the states remain.
So, what does that tell us?
I'm not disagreeing with the warning you give; just trying to point out how complicated the issue is, and how being a domestic program is no garentee of safty or quality.
About the presents; My kid never got his birth day box. It was loaded with food. Cost me 80 bucks just to mail it. I had this ignorant notion they could have a sort of B-day party. I guess somebody had a party of sorts; but it wasn't my kid and his friends.
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On 2004-02-23 08:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
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About the foreign placed program;
In my ignorance, I thought it was a plus.
I thought of it as a valuable educational and cultural experience; something akin to Outward Bound's summer treks in Costa Rica; or even a sort of Jr. Peace Core type of situation.
I thought how much I would have loved to be able to travel to a beautiful country with such an abundance of wild life, and a population of warm friendly, well educated people.
The distance concerned me; but I felt it was an unreasonable fear based on my own tendency for anxiety. I didn't want to let my problem with anxiety deprive my kid of a wonderful experience as part of his sobering up and rehab.
And while I admit I was way wrong about exactly what I was sending my kid into; you all here know; it would've been more or less the same if he'd been in New York or South Carolina. In some respects I was right. He did get to see some beautiful sights and he is glad to have been there to see them. So, I guess my point is; the foreign location was Not the problem.
I do understand why you say what you say about it; but there are programs just as dangerous and brutal in your own back yard, so to speak, and while several foreign programs have been closed down, most in the states remain.
So, what does that tell us?
I'm not disagreeing with the warning you give; just trying to point out how complicated the issue is, and how being a domestic program is no garentee of safty or quality.
About the presents; My kid never got his birth day box. It was loaded with food. Cost me 80 bucks just to mail it. I had this ignorant notion they could have a sort of B-day party. I guess somebody had a party of sorts; but it wasn't my kid and his friends.
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Well, considering you probably think it's okay to send kids to a faith-based program in Mexico, I guess your out-of-country defense makes sense.
:rofl:
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That's Peace CORP (not core, as in apple).
:roll:
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Indeed, it is corp;
and indeed, I think there are good programs in MX; as well as at least one really bad one.
So Boss, does this mean my thoughts and opinions are not as valid and worthwhile as anyone elses?
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I don't know if Christmas at Dundee Ranch was anything like Casa but, if so, you would never guess from their student newspaper:
http://http://www.academydundee.org/updates/december02.doc
I note the Upper Level of the Month was our friend Christopher Riner who is commended on his 100% positive attitude.
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On 2004-02-23 09:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Indeed, it is corp;
and indeed, I think there are good programs in MX; as well as at least one really bad one.
So Boss, does this mean my thoughts and opinions are not as valid and worthwhile as anyone elses?"
Good programs in Mexico? Please, would you mind naming those programs so I can be the judge of that, not you, who may have (big yawn) an agenda at play, here?
Pronto, por favor!
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If you send your child candy, it's usually not recommended. It is not considered part of a healthy diet. Some parents insist on sending this stuff anyway, so the program(s) give your child what you send because you parents have insisted on breaking the rules. You are given a list of what they can have and keep: books, socks, underware, etc., and those are not taken away.
Some parents send it for acceptance. Will they ever learn? Most parents won't send the artifical happiness covered in chocolate.
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That's funny....I sent Geoff and Garred candy while they were at Dundee. They sent me letters back thanking me for it. I have asked them, since they got home, if they really did get the candy I sent. They said they did.
Of course as far as breaking the rules goes, I did not know the rules, they were sent to Dundee with out my consenting to any rules.
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2004-02-23 12:11 ]
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i sent my son summer sausage. he said he ate it until he could eat no more of it and his stomache hurt, they were only allowed to have it that day.
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You know the answer and you have your opinion; and you are so board by the subject you have to stress the fact; so why are you wasting time and space?
What are you Really trying to accomplish?
As for what was said about foreign verses domestic programs; Has no one any thoughts on that subject?
I find it interesting that while Yes, of coarse the foreign programs have proven risky; they are no more so than the domestic variety; and the domestic variety have pretty much continued to continue; unabated and unaffected by the laws of the states they reside in.
Now why is That?
Seems to me worth some rampant talking about.
But you'd rather pick me to pieces for daring to express any thought at all.
Why is that?
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On 2004-02-23 12:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You know the answer and you have your opinion; and you are so board by the subject you have to stress the fact; so why are you wasting time and space?
What are you Really trying to accomplish?
As for what was said about foreign verses domestic programs; Has no one any thoughts on that subject?
I find it interesting that while Yes, of coarse the foreign programs have proven risky; they are no more so than the domestic variety; and the domestic variety have pretty much continued to continue; unabated and unaffected by the laws of the states they reside in.
Now why is That?
Seems to me worth some rampant talking about.
But you'd rather pick me to pieces for daring to express any thought at all.
Why is that?
"
Anon, it's okay if you think there are some good programs in Mexico (wink,wink,nod,nod) but why the anonymity? Just stand up for your opinions, we all know whozzzz you are and why youzzzz are here (even if you haven't figured that out, yet).
::bandit::
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Board (as in bored)
Coarse (as in course)
Yeah, might as well quit posting anon, since it is abundantly obvious who you are. Welcome back, BTW!
:smile:
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Its true some kids at Dundee had candy. My kid begged me to send some, b/c other kids had it and didn't share and he was so hungry.
I didn't send candy; but he didn't get what I sent; not for his birthday. He did on one occassion get some popcorn and some crackers I sent; but his F.R. ate the pop corn (he said he was sorry) and his buddies cleaned up his crackers.
I think the thing with the B-day box was it was to much. It couldn't be wiped out in a sitting, so he just never got it. I don't actually Know; but for Some reason, he never got it.
I had even packed some of those foil packaged juce drinks; for the party, so the kids wouldn't be thirsty. He told me later that even when and if the package arrived, he wouldn't be allowed to have the juice. He wasn't on level 3 were they could have juice. Blew me away.
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Board (as in bored)
Coarse (as in course)
Yeah, might as well quit posting anon, since it is abundantly obvious who you are. Welcome back, BTW!
Well, I know!!
But I am more comfortable under the bag for now.
And BTW - Thank You.
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Juice (not even fresh-squeezed, but in a box) as a reward for jumping through hoops 24.7? Man, if this is all it takes to get kids to straighten out, you parents are wasting a whole heck of a lot of money. I mean, a case of these juice-in-a-boxes costs what ... $25.00? Buy a couple months supply and keep your kids at home where you can control their behavior without taking a second mortgage out on the family home. Sounds like a juicy idea to me.
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On 2004-02-23 12:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Board (as in bored)
Coarse (as in course)
Yeah, might as well quit posting anon, since it is abundantly obvious who you are. Welcome back, BTW!
Well, I know!!
But I am more comfortable under the bag for now.
And BTW - Thank You.
"
Well, okay if you feel the need .... bessides as a fellow baggie, who am I to complain?! Would like to say though that I read your post about feeling remorseful for any role you might have played in the despictable (and very un-christian-like) personal attacks on Ms. Bock and felt you were truly speaking from the heart. Who knows, maybe someday the rest of the "angry ones" will wake up and realize the best way to stop the teen hurt industry is through rational discussion and debate, and last but not least, a whole lotta faith that God is on our team.
Peace be with you!
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Uh, self-typo-correction here. That is besides (not bessides)
::bangin::
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There have been attacks on Carey that did go below the belt and I'm not one to defend Carey, believe me. However, there seem to be quite a few of those comming from her. I and several others who are remaining anon for fear of attacks by her, are having more of a problem with HOW she says things rather than WHAT she says. She can't even concede that there MIGHT be a SLIGHT possiblity that she came across as a bitch. She's not perfect, none of us are, but she seems to really think that she's just the only one standing up to the BIG BADDIES, and 'Hey, if you don't like the way I do it then you MUST be for the other side'. I think she could probably have a lot more people 'on her side' if she didn't come across the way she does. Even if she doesn't feel she comes across that way, others obviously do, so it would behoove her to come down off her high horse every few days or so to address the peasants that are working so hard WITHOUT blowing their own horns.
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Below the belt? That is putting it a bit mildly, don't you think? No, it was much worse than that and quite frankly, I think you know just how degenerate this whole affair has become. Oh well, that old adage "be careful what you wish for" appears to be coming true. For not only has Ginger's attorney made it known he is planning a vigorous defense, Carey seems to have lined her ducks up, as well. Guess now all anybody can do is wonder WAS IT WORTH IT and just how many kids were saved during this long and very bitter "search for truth". Me, I already know the answer and as such, can only wish people had not lost sight of the forest for the trees.
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I'm QUITE aware of how poorly this has been handled. So, I'll say FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME.....I DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM SO MUCH WITH WHAT CAREY WAS SAYING (as I didn't know enough to be able to form one) BUT WHAT i SAW ON THESE BOARDS FROM CAREY ADN A FEW ANONS AMOUNTED TO NOTHING MORE THAN SARCASTIC REMARKS TAHT BLEW OFF LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS. To MEEEE....it seemed she was WAY TOO PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE adn that's what led ME to hvae a beef with her. She says she doesn't come across that way, so.....
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What's with the Carey bashing? This thread was about sending children candy, sweets, presents. Carey's boys received what was sent. I guess that warrants the bashing once again??
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On 2004-02-23 12:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Juice (not even fresh-squeezed, but in a box) as a reward for jumping through hoops 24.7? Man, if this is all it takes to get kids to straighten out, you parents are wasting a whole heck of a lot of money. I mean, a case of these juice-in-a-boxes costs what ... $25.00? Buy a couple months supply and keep your kids at home where you can control their behavior without taking a second mortgage out on the family home. Sounds like a juicy idea to me.
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Hmmm, candy seems to do the trick, too. But then again, so would toilet paper, something from what I gather, could be considered a valuable commodity in the daily life of most of these teens. Either way, the rewards system can be duplicated at home, just don't think most teens consider these things important enough to modify their attitude and behavior to suit their parent's expectations and demands, until it's too late and they are off to a program in retaliation for their no-gratitude-attitude.
:scared:
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However, there seem to be quite a few of those comming from her. I and several others who are remaining anon for fear of attacks by her, are having more of a problem with HOW she says things rather than WHAT she says.
The fear is in the truth.
I and several others
Are we talking about Trekkers/PURE here? Is that why the fear? I mean if she is calling a spade a spade...well then, I guess the truth is to be feared.
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Hmmm, candy seems to do the trick, too. But then again, so would toilet paper, something from what I gather, could be considered a valuable commodity in the daily life of most of these teens. Either way, the rewards system can be duplicated at home, just don't think most teens consider these things important enough to modify their attitude and behavior to suit their parent's expectations and demands, until it's too late and they are off to a program in retaliation for their no-gratitude-attitude.
:scared: "
All of the concepts can be applied at home. Just figure the teen who comes and goes as they please and havent followed any of the rules before, will look at you like you're an alien or worse if you tell them they will be "earning juice" from now on. At home, they expected to have a warm bed to sleep in, but chose to not use it very often. They expected to open the fridge and find food, but usually went for the sweets after a long night of smoking weed. They expected to have the latest clothes because they were your kid, but never thanked you.
You don't do your kids any favors by giving, giving, giving. Take them shopping at Wal-Mart and payless shoes. Don't keep candy, pop or junk food in the house. Provide healthy meals. Give them a bed to sleep in and a roof over their head and make them earn everything else. Teach them to say thank you and mean it.
Invest in their education, not in their image.
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Huh, Anon (Karen?), I think you missed the point. Few teens don't believe it is their parent's job to provide their children with the basics, and then some, while they sit on their ass all day being a "kid". That is HIGHLY NORMAL behavior. What isn't normal a'tall is forcing kids to be grateful and/or take responsibility for meeting their own needs and wants by institutionalizing them, stripping them of their basic human rights and then making 'em jump through hoops to earn the privilege of seeing or talking to their own parents, nevermind getting a box of juice to enforce their good behavior. Whatever happened to LEADING BY EXAMPLE, which where I come from, is called PARENTING????
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On 2004-02-23 16:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Huh, Anon (Karen?), I think you missed the point. Few teens don't believe it is their parent's job to provide their children with the basics, and then some, while they sit on their ass all day being a "kid". That is HIGHLY NORMAL behavior. What isn't normal a'tall is forcing kids to be grateful and/or take responsibility for meeting their own needs and wants by institutionalizing them, stripping them of their basic human rights and then making 'em jump through hoops to earn the privilege of seeing or talking to their own parents, nevermind getting a box of juice to enforce their good behavior. Whatever happened to LEADING BY EXAMPLE, which where I come from, is called PARENTING????
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Please bear in mind I am talking about kids as young as 13 years old being forced by their parents into a locked specialty school or program as the answer to changing or controlling unwanted behavior in the home, school or community. Pre-teens who can't legally drive or in a lot of states, get a job.
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All this anon business is confusing, I know. But I think maybe you have my anon mixed up with another (who can tell)
But as for me, I don't miss the point. I get it and if I understand you correctly, I agree.
I did not know going in, Juice was an item one would be expected to earn. I was lead to believe the kids would be eating a complete diet of well prepared meals cooked by a chef. The complaint of hunger and beans and rice got my attention, I assure you.
The point being, I never intended to send my kid somewhere where he would be kept hungry and have to earn his juice!
I don't think any of the parents do, in the beginning; and by the time they learn of it, if they even believe it, they are already well indoctrinated; and the support of the group helps reinforce the notion earning ones juice is a good thing.
This is my opinion on how it happens and why it is allowed to continue.
I feel this is just another example of how the program twists and exaggerates a common truth to excuse what they are up to.
Its true people, kids included, very often have a overdeveloped sense of entitlement. The 'need' for so many 'things'. The idea it ought to just be theirs if they want it; Its a common problem for society in general. That?s why we have such a huge credit debt and so many bankruptcies. How is it the song put it? 'We seen it on the TV and we want it pretty fast' - something like that. Its a problem.
Anyway, parents are very familiar with it; and I think, the program uses this to justify these conditions; by insisting the kid needs to learn to earn all these things. To a degree, this is often true; but they take it to extremes that no one thinking clearly would agree acceptable. That?s why, in my opinion, they don't tell the parents up front just what all the kid will be expected to earn; Or how long it is likely to take.
And, in my opinion, the reason they keep the lower level kids diet deprived is to help facilitate the brainwashing; for that is what it is, in my opinion.
Call it what you will; but read up on methods of mind control, thought reform, brainwashing; and it'll sound real familiar to anyone who?s been threw the program.
Diet depravation is just part of the process.
Just as is the isolation from family and society.
And the random brutality. It facilitates the needed levels of stress. Its very stressful even if you only see the bruises or hear the screams. Maybe more so than actually being the victim - well, unless it is one of the more extreme episodes. . .
No, anon, I think I get it all right.
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On 2004-02-23 19:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
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All this anon business is confusing, I know. But I think maybe you have my anon mixed up with another (who can tell)
But as for me, I don't miss the point. I get it and if I understand you correctly, I agree.
I did not know going in, Juice was an item one would be expected to earn. I was lead to believe the kids would be eating a complete diet of well prepared meals cooked by a chef. The complaint of hunger and beans and rice got my attention, I assure you.
The point being, I never intended to send my kid somewhere where he would be kept hungry and have to earn his juice!
I don't think any of the parents do, in the beginning; and by the time they learn of it, if they even believe it, they are already well indoctrinated; and the support of the group helps reinforce the notion earning ones juice is a good thing.
This is my opinion on how it happens and why it is allowed to continue.
I feel this is just another example of how the program twists and exaggerates a common truth to excuse what they are up to.
Its true people, kids included, very often have a overdeveloped sense of entitlement. The 'need' for so many 'things'. The idea it ought to just be theirs if they want it; Its a common problem for society in general. That?s why we have such a huge credit debt and so many bankruptcies. How is it the song put it? 'We seen it on the TV and we want it pretty fast' - something like that. Its a problem.
Anyway, parents are very familiar with it; and I think, the program uses this to justify these conditions; by insisting the kid needs to learn to earn all these things. To a degree, this is often true; but they take it to extremes that no one thinking clearly would agree acceptable. That?s why, in my opinion, they don't tell the parents up front just what all the kid will be expected to earn; Or how long it is likely to take.
And, in my opinion, the reason they keep the lower level kids diet deprived is to help facilitate the brainwashing; for that is what it is, in my opinion.
Call it what you will; but read up on methods of mind control, thought reform, brainwashing; and it'll sound real familiar to anyone who?s been threw the program.
Diet depravation is just part of the process.
Just as is the isolation from family and society.
And the random brutality. It facilitates the needed levels of stress. Its very stressful even if you only see the bruises or hear the screams. Maybe more so than actually being the victim - well, unless it is one of the more extreme episodes. . .
No, anon, I think I get it all right.
"
Yeah, all these anons mixing it up makes it hard to know who the hell is on the other line! But look, I agree 100% with what you are saying and absolutely support your contention that is wrong to make kids EARN something as fundamental as a good diet, a good night's rest and a good bowel movement. No kidding. I have read numerous accounts written by teens from all kinds of different programs complaining they were constipated for days, mostly due to a poor diet and emotional distress, combined with an inappropriate comfort level of privacy and of course, little to no toilet paper. What's interesting about the parents who place their child in a behavior mod program is how naive they are about the tactics and techniques used to change and/or control the behavior of their children, including taking kids into the wilderness as a pre-requisite for long-term placement and these large group awareness training (LGAT)seminars which many programs use (not just WWASPS) to coerce children and parents into adopting the values and beliefs of the omnipotent program.
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Yep, when I saw my son for the first time in 4 months, for our 36 hr visit; he had been on the programs "restriction diet" for almost a month straight. Not uncommon, normal for kids to be on restriction more than not the first 6 months.
A small box of cereal, milk, and a piece of (eithered, he says) fruit for breakfast.
Two cheese and bread sandwiches, a cup of soup, and water for lunch and the same for dinner.
Extra work detail, no pleasure, no communication with peers.
The restriction diet was not mentioned ANYWHERE in the parent manual, but the headmaster brought it up in the orientation before they cut the kids loose. He told parents they'd probably hear about it, but not to over react or be concerned- you know, those lying, manipulating teens will exaggerate everything. And, while "sparse", he'd had it checked and approved by the Health Dept. Months later when I started investigating them I found out that he stood there and blatently lied to the parents with the most sincere and genuine tone imaginable. Some of the most unethical people I have ever encountered. No one at the health dept had spoken to him and it wasn't in their scope to approve diets for private "prisons".
Much later I learned that there was a time limit for the meal. One was PT'd if they didn't toss their plate when trash came by... they ate outside on the curb, not with their peers.
My son had had diarrhea for 3 days prior. He was thin and grey; in a weak, debilitated state. Like he'd been on a deserted island for months. I can't even condone this sort of treatment for teens who have committed murder, much less kids who are a pain in their parents asses. I weeped when I saw him.
Barbarian. It blows my mind that it is happening on Earth in 2004. I really thought the human race was progressing until I came face-to-face with this industry, which is a throwback to medieval torture. And this was a "fine, high-dollar, east coast" facility. Owned and operated by a psych professional. All staff had degrees. Cost and education does not = quality care.
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Deborah - that was Bethel Boys Academy, right? A non wwasp program that you keep comparing to?
Kids do not have to earn a well balanced meal at wwasps. They do have to earn condiments and juice. They have milk, plenty of water, but it seems the juice is an incentive for some reason. They eat fruit, oranges, apples, grapes, bananas but not in juice form. It's not a big deal, unless you make it one.
What idiot said they thought their child would be fed by a chef? Did you really think your kid was going to a resort to straighten their life out? Funny. The dieticians and cooks are good, but not chef material.
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No "idiot", it wasn't Bethel. Is Bethel a high-dollar program on the East Coast? And I'm NOT "comparing" that program to W, I'm sharing my experience. And YES all programs have similarities; more alike than different. I mean, there are just so many things you can deny a person to force them to comply with your deranged illusion of perfection. Food is frequently one of them.
If you are a parent, your opinion means nothing. You do not KNOW what is happening on a day-to-day basis, only what they have told you and what you may have seen on a "scheduled" visit. If you are a program owner or staff, I wouldn't believe you.
BTW, when I reported the program for operating without a license, one of the changes they had to make was to hire a dietician and a catering company started preparing the meals. They had to be forced to provide balanced meals with variety and eliminate the "restriction diet" as punishment. In other words, the "regular" meals were sub-standard as well.
All the state regulations I've read state very clearly that denying food and contact with parents MAY NOT be used as punishment, motivation. Why do you think the majority of programs avoid being regulated by telling the state they are a "boarding school"? Have you ever heard of a traditional BS that operated that way, much less deny holiday visits home for "therapeutic" reasons?
Every program that opens their doors should have to prove their stated purpose. If they are caught operating without the proper license the state should enforce, the sometimes $500/day, fines. We'd see less abuse if state regulators did their jobs, and programs didn't lie and manipulate about their classification, "We started as a boarding school, then became a therapeutic facility.", "We are a boarding school, we don't do any therapy here".
And they have the NERVE to call the teens pathological liars and manipulators. I guess you all condone adults lying, when you/they believe it's in the teens best interest.
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Deb you write:
It blows my mind that it is happening on Earth in 2004.
I think this is also part of how they manage to real parents in. I know I never in my wildest dreams thought anything like the program reality could exist as it does. My fears were mostly about the single ?bad apple? and the harm they could do; but that same fear applies to any setting ; School, scouts, church groups, you name it; But that their could be this systematic abuse and neglect in a program for troubled teens never entered my mind! I feel this is true for most all parents, and is why they find the truth so hard to believe even when they hear of it. It is simply Hard to believe!! Mind blowing, as you say.
An Anon writes:
Kids do not have to earn a well balanced meal at wwasps.
Your wrong. Either you have fallen into the trap described above; or you are a liar. My kid lost something like 25 pounds in 4 months. He was being starved; and he was eating everything he could get his hands on. New kids often didn?t want their beans and rice, and he would happily scarff it up for them and tell them they would learn to love their beans and rice!
And you say:
What idiot said they thought their child would be fed by a chef?
That?s me and maybe I am an idiot; but not for the reason you imply. I was told by Jane Hawley that Dundee had retained the chef from its days as a tourist s resort; and the meals were especially well prepared as a result. It was a selling point; and was even in the glossy little pamphlet they sent out. I fell for it.
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See the following thread.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=9&Sort=D (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4055&forum=9&Sort=D)
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On 2004-02-24 09:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"See the following thread.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=9&Sort=D (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4055&forum=9&Sort=D)"
Anon, do you have any feedback?
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Hi, just checkin' in to see if Anon has has any feedback. Guess not, soes I will check back later.
Ciao!
:wave:
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See the following thread.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=9&Sort=D (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4055&forum=9&Sort=D)
What relevance does that thread have to this? And if Anon has any feedback why should they reply on this thread rather than the original?
If this has anything to do with the WWASP/Carey/PURE vendetta why do you have to speak in riddles?
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Hey Kiwi - I wasn't purposely trying to talk in riddles, seemed to me the purpose in posting the reference to the other thread was obvious given the following statement in Anon's post:
Anon Writes:
"That?s me and maybe I am an idiot; but not for the reason you imply. I was told by Jane Hawley that Dundee had retained the chef from its days as a tourist s resort; and the meals were especially well prepared as a result. It was a selling point; and was even in the glossy little pamphlet they sent out. I fell for it."
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Not sure if you know who Jane Hawley, is, but perhaps Anon will clue you in. If not, do an archive or Google search.
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Kiwi - Sorry, forgot to add the KEYWORD in Anon's statement: S.E.L.L.I.N.G.
Kind of spells out a sub-topic worthy of at least some feeback, don't you agree?
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This thread has nothing to do with the thread you?ve put up for comment. Nothing at all.
Who Jane is, has nothing to do with the post you put up for comment.
Your just trying to deflect attention and confuse people.
Must have hit a nerve.
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On 2004-02-24 16:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This thread has nothing to do with the thread you?ve put up for comment. Nothing at all.
Who Jane is, has nothing to do with the post you put up for comment.
Your just trying to deflect attention and confuse people.
Must have hit a nerve.
"
HUH? What do you mean "who Jane is, has nothing to do with the post you put up for comment"?
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all that healthy food and milk and such caused my son to loose over 20 lbs IN THREE WEEKS.
WP
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HUH? What do you mean "who Jane is, has nothing to do with the post you put up for comment"?
Well, if you can see a connection, please enlighten the rest of us.
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Not sure if you know who Jane Hawley, is ...
As a matter of fact, I had heard of her. According to her web sites she is always happy to take a call on her cell phone any time of the day or night. Some time I must take her up on the offer at three o'clock in the morning, LOL!
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Kiwi - Anon mentioned the name of someone who apparently "sold" her on a program for her son. The other post has to do with people who at one time or another appear to have also been involved in the business of selling (referring) a similiar group of programs for troubled teens. The post underscores the reality that this is a business (not that the parties are connected) and was asking for feedback from Anon. Since you seem so interested in the topic, I'd be curious if you have any thoughts or opinions on the referral business?
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I'm sorry if I'm a bit dim but the relevance of the other thread was not immediately apparent to me and the constant demands for an answer kinda reminded me of the vendetta I mentioned earlier. My apologies if I misjudged you. As someone said, you might have hit a nerve.
As for my opinion on the referral business, I don't trust a financial 'advisor' who takes commission. If I don't trust such people with my money why would I trust them with the welfare of my child?
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Kiwi, your gracious apology, while not necessary, is nevertheless appreciated! And yes, that IS a very good question you ask:
Kiwi Writes:
"As for my opinion on the referral business, I don't trust a financial 'advisor' who takes commission. If I don't trust such people with my money why would I trust them with the welfare of my child?"
******
From your lips, to parent's ears. When it comes to private referrals for ANY residential school or program, CAVEAT EMPTOR (Buyer Beware).
******
:nworthy:
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Tell me, was there any forced sodomy (corn-holing) going down in those joints? Y' know, sex abuse? C'mon, don't be shy...
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Kiwi,
If you give Ms Hawley a call,be sure to ask her about the Grads who went on to attend Harvard & Standford Universities.
The first time I was given that information I fell for it. The second time I was incredulous they would still be telling the same tale yrs later.
Maybe she would be kind enough to give the "students" names to verify that "fact".
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The second time? Sheesh Anon, what the hell is that supposed to mean? And another thing, don't be so naive as to think ed cons and independent referral agents aren't telling parents what they want to hear, either, when they're "working those "sales leads" generated through their eye-candy websites and (big gasp) online support groups.
:smokin:
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On Line support groups????? Yeah Right.
Second and third time too .I was checking on how and why I could have been so gullible to have fallen for the marketing lies. Harvard indeed!
They are not even accredited properly.
Do YOU think the lies justify the means? The end results of deceiving parents into believing the unscruplous liars. May they all rot in prison.
Do not lump me with your preconcieved assestment of ed cons.
The ed cons I spoke with(3) after my child was enrolled in the program were saddened to hear he was there. They never had the courage to say why they were sorry. Afraid to be sue for "defamation" maybe.They didnt like or refer to the program. They did not/would not elaborate why. I now know why.
I'm speaking from my own personal experience at the expense of my kid.
A lie is a lie. Its never ok. They should be ashamed of themselves and then some.
Do mean a favor and save your bullshit for someone who doesnt know any better.
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Froderick,
Sip your britches up.
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Sip your britches up.
:rofl: You're funny for once, anon - Now, I take it you meant "zip"
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"The ed cons I spoke with(3) after my child was enrolled in the program were saddened to hear he was there. They never had the courage to say why they were sorry. Afraid to be sue for "defamation" maybe.They didnt like or refer to the program. They did not/would not elaborate why. I now know why."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They do not refer to WWASPS. THey do not receive monetary compensation for referring to WWASPS. THey didn't say why they were saddened because they would sound like all they cared about was money. They have to make a living and since there are many programs that do pay them, it makes sense that's who they recommend. If they were just honest and upfront then people wouldn't have to assume they don't refer because it's a bad program. They refer to programs that are in the same allegations boat, but you won't hear them saying how saddened they are that they referred you to a program that wasn't what you expected. They do the best they can when it comes to referring to programs that will pay them and that will help the family dynamics. If WWASPS ever does decide to pay them a hefty fee, their tune will change, guaranteed.
Beyond that, have you ever had a therapist that referred you to a rehab or inpatient treatment that insurance paid for, only to find out that it wasn't enough time, or didn't do enough for the family and you go back again and again grasping for some sense of normal?
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Anon, nobody here is sticking up for ed cons, independent referral agents or program-affiliated
sales reps. Quite the contrary. They are a BIG part of the problem, as evident by your own experience and countless others, many of whom have spoken out on this forum (e.g. Deborah).
Bottom Line: Residential Placement Advice and Referrals is a self-regulated industry. Parents need to have a healthy skepticism and steer clear of anybody who is paid by the program, itself, which by all accounts, is highly unethical.
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Well, I can't say for sure and certain myself; I never referred anyone and never was paid; but according to common report; WWASP does indeed pay, and nicely, for a placement referral.
The common report is a grad a pop.
Or, in the case of a program parent, a free month; which is several grand a pop.
So, this notion that ed con don't refer b/c it don't pay seems inaccurate.
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Yes thank you. I meant zip.
I lost my sense of humor a few years back.
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Anon, this post below seems to confirm what you are saying. FYI: Educational consultants do NOT get paid by programs, their services are paid for by parents. If an educational consultant is, in fact, getting paid by the program, that is a red flag, as this is considered unethical in accordance to the principles and standards of professional trade groups like the IECA. See link below.
SCHOOL/COLLEGE/PROGRAM RELATIONSHIPS:
http://www.iecaonline.com/principles.html (http://www.iecaonline.com/principles.html)
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Posted: 2004-02-24 09:06:00
On 2004-01-04 11:14:00, Carey wrote:
(Quote)
"Q. Do you remember receiving a check for refering XXXX XXXXXXXX to Casa by the Sea in April of 2001?
A. I don't recall. I did not personally refer these people.
Q. Now, do you remember refering nine people through Diane XXXXXXXX?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember one of these people as XXXXX XXXXXXXX who went to Tranquility Bay in March of 2001?
A. No.
Q. Do you remember one of those people was XXXXXXX XXXX, who went to Carolina Springs in March of 2001.
A. I didn't know the names, Randall kept track of that.
Q. Do you remember on of those persons being XXX XXXXXXX, who went to Tranquility Bay in March of 2001?
A. No. I don't remember that name at all.
Q. Do you remember XXXXX XXXXXXXXX going to Spring Creek Lodge in April of 2001 and you receiving partial payment through Diane XXXXXXXX?
A. I don't remember that at all. That name at all.
Q. Do you remember--
A. I never kept track of the names.
Q. Do you remember the referrals from Dinae XXXXXXX were made so that she would get two-thirds of the referral credit and she would give you one third?
A. That's correct.
Q. So you would get $1,000.00 and she would get $2,000.00 credit?
A. Well she would get a month free for her boys. Whatever that amount is.
Q. And you would get $1,000.00?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you remember one of the people you got $1,000.00 for was XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX, who went to Casa by the Sea in May of 2001?
A. No. I don't remember that at all.
Q. Do you rmemeber one of the persons you ot money for was XXXXXX XXXX who went to Tranquility Bay in May of 2001?
A. Not at all. Not at all.
Q. Do you remember that one of the people you got $1,000.00 for was XXXXXXX XXXXXX, who went to Spring Creek Lodge in June of 2001?
A. In June - no. No.
Q. Do you remember one of the persons you got $1,000.00 for was XXXXX XXXXXXXX, who went to Majestic Ranch in June of 2001?
A. NOt at all.
Q. Do you remember you got $1,000.00 when XXXXXX XXXXX went to Carolina Springs in June of 2001?
A. No. No. I did not. I know Randall, Randall must--I mean, I didn't -- and I know Diane got herr credits. And I know Diane didn't even pay us for the last couple of months because she ran out of money. From what I recall. As a matter of fact, I had told Diane, Maybe its time to bring your boys home. So I stopped -- but I don't know what Randall did.
Q. What does Randall have to do with Diane XXXXXXXX?
A. Because Randall was handling the account of referrals. Randall, when a call would come in that had my code on it Randall would get the call. Randall handled all of my accounts.
Could someone help with the dates:
When was PURE founded?
When did she pull her child from CSA?
When did the sexual harrasment issue take place?
When did her business start providing the income that she felt was secure enough that she no longer needed to refer to WWASP programs?
When did she publically start to bash WWASP programs?
(End Quote)
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Other threads on Ed Cons:
Discussion with an Ed Con and how Ed Cons are paid by programs 'under the table' of course:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=10 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=2224&forum=9&start=10)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=10 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=2596&forum=9&start=10)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=10 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=2704&forum=9&start=10)