Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: ottkat on February 19, 2004, 01:01:00 AM
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Heya Gang,
For those of you who want to see, I posted some pix of my wife and I getting married in San Francisco on Monday in the rush of queers to get to City Hall there.
As some of you already know, we were married in Canada last October; however, the US does not recognize it, and maybe with the court fights this one will be legal. Either way, it was an opportunity for us to express our love and to be a part of history.
Just click on the "WWW" link below, which goes to my diary. Naturally, you can read the account, or just go directly to the pix.
Kathy
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Awesome Kathy! History in the making! Congratulations! Let's hope it sticks and... that one day they'll acknowledge it in your town and mine!!
-an old (almost) neighbor from Brooklyn
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On 2004-02-19 17:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Awesome Kathy! History in the making! Congratulations! Let's hope it sticks and... that one day they'll acknowledge it in your town and mine!!
-an old (almost) neighbor from Brooklyn"
If you want, send me an email (email addy is linked at top of diary page) and let me know who you are. I like to keep in contact with the gang. For a while a bunch of us were living in Brooklyn.
Kathy
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I know Keven, that you believe what your doing is "right". And it certainly would appear to be a legitimate, alternative lifestyle considering the increased number of supporters, the almost indifference of the average American, and the legislative changes in favor of such unions. However, it still doesn`t change the simple fact that the Creator disapproves to say the least! I have alot of opinions about things in life, as we all do,but mine are about unimportant life issues like what sports I like or car I should get. I don`t have an opinion about how a person should live,but I do have enough knowledge and experience in Gods word to know what is right wrong. Both the old and new testaments(especially Pauls letter to the church in rome) talk at length about such diveations from Gods plan and the innevitable consequences that follow. Please don`t misunderstand me, I don`t want to sound judgemental in any way,I`m not attacking you or any one as a person, how could I when I come from a past very similar to your present.I`m simply stating the facts as they are presented to us from Gods Holy Word, tried and tested by yours truly and countless others with great success at surmounting their afflictions. The worse thing about sin is the disillusionment that I suffer when I`m in the middle of it!I can actually convince myself that what I`m doing is "okay"and I don`t have to look to far to find someone to condone my twistedness. Enough said, someone here will call me homophobic or scream "hatecrime", the response to anyone who dares to shine the light of truth and reason on such matters. Hell I`ve done that too, its the equivelant to blaming the cops for busting me.How dare they single me out and take my drugs or confront me on my actions,after all isn`t it a free country? Sounds commical from that perspective, but is it really any different? Ciao for now!
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Your point is mute!
"separation of church and state!"
and...
my guess is 37 years ago or so...
when it became legal for a black woman to marry a white man, your ass would have been screaming some other ignorant rant about how that was immoral!
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oh honey, if you want to criticize Kathy or if you have found the light... tell us your name. If god is on your side, why must you be such a coward. Show your face in the Lords name. You will surely make it to heaven for that.
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Hello Anonymous, Most Likely Christian, Person,
Let me just quote you, before I start:
?However, it still doesn?t change the simple fact that the Creator disapproves to say the least!?
I find it curious, in the least, for you to say that you ?do have enough knowledge and experience in Gods word to know what is right wrong? [sic]. Considering that you reference to ?Gods Holy Word? and to Paul?s Epistle to the Romans, then I can surmise that your knowledge and experience are based upon your reading the Bible.
Since you mention Paul, I have to ask how you tease out what to act upon and what to ignore in what he wrote. If you are a male, do you make sure your wife covers her head in public when she is proclaiming the gospel (if you are female, do you do that on your own)? Do you consider long hair on a man to be unnatural and a disgrace? Do you keep your wife from cutting her hair? Paul, in 1 Corinthians 11 noted all of these as requirements. And as a master do you keep your slaves well, being mindful that you will all be equal in heaven? Paul also recommended this in Ephesians 6 (which, by logical extension, means that you can keep slaves!). Of course, I could go on. I wonder how you choose the parts of God?s Holy Word that you are going to follow, and those that you won?t.
But acknowledging that one probably cannot follow the Bible literally, that it would be rather ridiculous to do so in this day and age, then why ascribe your beliefs to certain sections of a very old text that you choose to follow as a matter of faith? If you ?come from a past very similar? to my current lifestyle, then at least acknowledge that you made the choice to leave that life for your own reasons. What other people may do they will do, but I will not call you a homophobe. I will however, note that I believe that describing certain aspects as sinful in order to maintain guilt as a motivating negative emotion is counterproductive in my life. I honestly don?t recommend it.
For me, as a student the Old Religion, I honor the Goddess and the God (neither being ?the Creator,? by the way). I, however, do not worship anything, and I take nothing on as a belief until I examine it and find its resonance within me. Sin is not a concept in my life ? I take responsibility for my own actions, I work to act in accordance with ethics, and to honor the dignity of all life around me. Ergo, I suffer the consequences of my actions.
Mind you, I say none of this to deride your religious beliefs. You obviously care enough about me to take the time to write, and I thank you. I am sincere in this; one of the tenets that I follow is to respect other religious, spiritual, and life paths. I ask that you have the same respect for mine.
Kathy
Ps: Just for future reference: my name used to be spelled Kevin, not Keven. But out of respect, and since it is my legal name, I do ask that you use Kathy or Kathryn. Thank you.
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Kathy -
CONGRATS AGAIN! Sooo cool to see the pix! Here is a fun email from my mom to me (she is a WAY liberal minister) - some biblical quotes on the institution of marraige!
Christy J
Subject: In defense of Biblical marriage
>
> The Presidential Prayer Team is currently urging us to: "Pray for the
> President as he seeks wisdom on how to legally codify the definition of
> marriage. Pray that it will be according to Biblical principles. With any
>
> forces insisting on variant definitions of marriage, pray that God's Word
>
> and His standards will be honored by our government."
>
> Any good religious person believes prayer should be balanced by action.
> So
> here, in support of the Prayer Team's admirable goals, is a proposed
> Constitutional Amendment codifying marriage entirely on biblical
> principles:
>
> A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man
>
> and one or more women.
> (Gen 29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)
>
> B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines in addition
>
> to his wife or wives.
> (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21)
>
> C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If
> the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed.
> Deut 22:13-21)
>
> D. Marriage of a believer and a nonbeliever shall be forbidden.
> (Gen 24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh
> 10:30)
>
> E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the
> constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be
> construed
> to permit divorce.
> (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)
>
> F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the
> widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does
> not
> give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe and be otherwise
> punished in a manner to be determined by law.
> (Gen. 38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)
>
> G. In lieu of marriage, if there are no acceptable men in your town, it
> is
> required that you get your dad drunk and have sex with him (even if he
> had
> previously offered you up as a sex toy to men young and old), tag-teaming
>
> with any sisters you may have. Of course, this rule applies only if you
> are
> female.
> (Gen 19:31-36)
>
>
> Posted at Protestants for the Common Good
> "cgn@thecommongood.org
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Sorry people, but the post about "church and state" is way way off.Did you know that this phrase was coined by one of our founding Fathers, a president,who was also moonlighting as public school director!And did you also know that this former president said there were two books that were "essential for students`successful education" one of these was, thats right folks, THE HOLY BIBLE! The separation of church and state was to keep government out of religion, not the misunderstood and distorted "interpretation" of today! Now you can have your agnostic(greek for ignorant)OPINION about this all you want, but you can`t change history and the FACTS! It was the pilgrims, seeking religious freedom from England who traveled across the sea, not the ACLU!And how did the person who posted the stuff about the bible know some dope would turn a nonthreatening comment into a bigoted post of "intolerence"? Because thats the plan of all you liberals, to turn anyone who speaks up about the "TRUTH" into a hateful homophobe! Its just history repeating itself,look at all the great nations that lost their way, like Rome, they crumbled! All in due time.
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OH BOY - intent was not to fuel one of these debates!
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I'm sorry, whick God the Creator were you talking about?
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On 2004-02-23 05:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
" Sorry people, but the post about "church and state" is way way off.Did you know that this phrase was coined by one of our founding Fathers, a president,who was also moonlighting as public school director!And did you also know that this former president said there were two books that were "essential for students`successful education" one of these was, thats right folks, THE HOLY BIBLE! The separation of church and state was to keep government out of religion, not the misunderstood and distorted "interpretation" of today! Now you can have your agnostic(greek for ignorant)OPINION about this all you want, but you can`t change history and the FACTS! It was the pilgrims, seeking religious freedom from England who traveled across the sea, not the ACLU!And how did the person who posted the stuff about the bible know some dope would turn a nonthreatening comment into a bigoted post of "intolerence"? Because thats the plan of all you liberals, to turn anyone who speaks up about the "TRUTH" into a hateful homophobe! Its just history repeating itself,look at all the great nations that lost their way, like Rome, they crumbled! All in due time."
Simply this:
Hate and intolerance behind a cloak of God's name.
Simply this:
Your insistance that the "holy bible" is the "truth". For who? You?
Freedom of religion implies the right to freedom FROM religion as well. The Bible has absolutely no standing in American law, and because it doesn't, no one, including you, has the right to impose rules anyone else simply because of something they percieve to be mandated by the Bible. If sects of Buddhism, celebrate gay relationships freely, in a sense, their religious freedom is being infringed upon.
"separation of church and state"
This is not a debate about the origin of our laws. Regardless of origin, it exists, and protects you along with Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Pagan, Wicca, agnostics, etc. and allows you to practice the religion you choose to follow. It also prevents your children from being forced to practice any of the above religions in public schools.
An interesting fact:
The words "under God" was inserted into the Pledge in 1954 at the height of paranoia about the godless communists. The pledge was writen by Baptist minister Frances Bellamy in 1892 and all references to religion were deliberately left out.
I suppose this isn't much different... Your paranoia about homosexuals and the demise of our nation because of them holds no more validity than paranoia about communists in the 1950's.
The point. Your bible debate is mute. However, if you must bring the bible into this, I would love for you to respond in detail to Christy's post. Clearly you have no worthwhile arguement against it.
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Congradulations Kathy!
WOW! i can't believe how much energy some people are willing to invest in getting their opinion across, justified, or validated.
i'm exhausted just reading it!
as for the gay thing, i've got NOTHING against it.
in fact, i have often said if i was a woman, i would certainly be a lesbian.
congrats again....wishing you and yours all the happiness!
ciao for now.
kb
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Thank you Kevin, Christy and the rest of you sending good wishes. I appreciate them, and have conveyed them to my wife.
I just want to make a couple of quick comments about the origin of the Constitutional guarantee of separation of church and state.
First, there are two clauses to this segment of the Constitution (Article III): "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
These two clauses achieved two purposes, not one. The first clause states the government will not come under the influence of any particular church or creed. This was primarily a response to King George III being the head of the Church of England, which was supported by taxes at that time, and heavily influenced English state policy at that time. In fact, when the colonies separated, there was an attempt by the Church of England to deprive the United States of any Bishops in the Apostle Peter's lineage (the laying on of hands). The Episcopal Church in the United States is called that, and not the Church of the United States, because that lineage comes from the Episcopal Church of Scotland, which had severed itself from the Church of England at that time.
The second clause is drawn directly from the Virginia Declaration of Rights, which stated that one has the right to enjoy the "free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience."
The primary author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights was Thomas Jefferson, who, besides not being a Christian (he was a lifelong Deist, a fact easily provable from his papers), was also a Freemason, along with George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and a number of other signers of both the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.
For anyone not schooled in the history of Freemasonry (admittedly not the most engrossing topic for most people; my interest derives from family history and my own studies in paganism), one of the required rituals of this time was designed to free one from the bounds of Christianity - the reciting of the Lord's Prayer backwards. That, along with the swearing of oaths to old Roman and Greek Gods, and the keeping of the pentagram, took people pretty far afield from standard Christianity.
In this light, most Constitutional scholars conclude that Article III is therefore meant to provide for both views, that government would stay out of religion, and religion out of government.
By the way, if anyone wants my citations for this discussion, I will gladly post them.
Kathy
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Sorry to see all you freaks so upset, I really am. Its great though because you show your ass in public.The biblical improvs by the Christy person are funny, even more so that most of you don`t even have a bible to check the accuracy.And I love the "hate" accusations, isn`t it you morons who have a fucking web site dedicated to "hate" count the posts and compare how many are filled with years old anger that goes nowhere and how many provide a solution, a way out of the self constructed prison of anger and resentment? All these years have past and you losers are still just as bitter if not more, HELLO, WAKE UP! thats the past, cant change it. LIke I said futile! most of you will never grow out of this, aren`t some of you now approaching middle age? You all are a cult, you keep each other sick, you can try to deny it all you want but its a COSMIC LAW, when you have a resentment you actually chain yourself emotionally to the very person you wish to be free from. ENJOY!
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Are you AA ?? By some of your verbage I think so. Well I look at this site as a support group,AA talks about the past as well.We talk about the good, the bad and the difference here.And if you don`t like what we do....Why the hell do you read and check in????
You do feel what we talk about, but have to much fear to be real. I believe your still in your own denil.
Good luck
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most of you will never grow out of this,
hmmm. you certainly haven't outgrown anything and seem to be the angriest of all posts on this thread.
you can try to deny it all you want but its a COSMIC LAW, when you have a resentment you actually chain yourself emotionally to the very person you wish to be free from.
Provoking arguements, making contemptuous accusations and assumptions, hurling insults at strangers, spewing hate, posting hostility on a thread which should be a celebration of love and not one of the intolerance you so blatantly expose in yourself,.. I suppose your "Cosmic Law" does not apply to you and you are unchained?
And I love the "hate" accusations, isn`t it you morons who have a fucking web site dedicated to "hate" count the posts and compare how many are filled with years old anger that goes nowhere and how many provide a solution, a way out of the self constructed prison of anger and resentment?
and I quote...
" Sorry to see all you freaks so upset,...Its great though...
isn`t it you morons
You all are a cult, you keep each other sick
fucking
fucking
hate
hate
Yes you are certainly filled with love, compassion, tolerance, and acceptance my friend...
I hope that one day you will be unchained in your circle of Cosmic Law since this is your belief...and I hope you will truly find...
a way out of the self constructed prison of anger and resentment
and perhaps rather than coming on here (since you clearly feel the need to be here) and spewing your hate YOU could offer some meaningful comments which are instead filled with love, acceptance, encouragement, etc. Until then it's very hard to take you seriously.
Love your neighbor my friend.
Since you are unable to prove Christy's post inaccurate, must you find search for some solace in insulting those who don't have a bible? What if they are Jewish, Bhudist, or Muslim?
Peace to you.
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Hi...I just want to say fuck banning gay marriages..
I am a happy heterosexual man..and I still believe 2 consenting adults should be allowed to marry, make love, fuck, whatever as long as noones getting harmed..
Religion is manmade bullshit..
And you should find what makes you happy and go after it with everyhting you have...or you lose at life..
When you are dead you are dead...you just get one go round, people..do it right...make yourself and those close to you happy..
Peace...and CONGRATS ON YOUR MARRIAGE!!!!! ::cheers:: ::cheers:: ::cheers::
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don't know what all that mumble was about. quickly realizing it was irrelevant. (God talk and blood guts cult junk.) Just want to say rock on and do what you need to to make yourself happy and live a good life. Gets harder and harder everyday in the beautiful usa, but we got the right to believe in what we believe (sometimes, (it feels unfortunate) those people that use the word "createture" ? I can?t even spell it - do to). But defending one mans right is defending you own. So I hear them out (with their stupid speak) but it allows me to hears yours. Progress. Rock on.
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The parts don't fit, yo... :cool:
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On 2004-03-01 07:35:00, Dr Fucktard wrote:
"The parts don't fit, yo... :cool: "
yo, who's parts? which parts? yours?
I'm laughing so hard.
You have no imagination do you?
Myth. A girl needs a dick.
Yo, you can buy any size you want or need or have 10 and use them all honey!
Myth. A man needs a woman.
2 men the parts fit very well!
Besides, wasn't Kathy's post about love and marriage, not sex and genitals?
Congratulations Kathy!
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I was waiting for Dr. Fucktard to weigh in; good to have him here finally. However, the actual line I was asked in 1985, about my "deviance," was, "Sooooo, after working here for 9 months, are you still going to hell?"
Always was so nice being the staff member with the "queer" history. :flame:
And yes, my inital post was about love and marriage, but sex and genitals are fun topics, too!
Kathy
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::troll::
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yo, who's parts? which parts? yours?
I'm laughing so hard.
You have no imagination do you?
You've never heard the expression?
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On 2004-03-02 00:07:00, ottkat wrote:
And yes, my inital post was about love and marriage, but sex and genitals are fun topics, too!
Kathy "
All of the above!!
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so for all these years, the majority of people in the world who oppose this gay stuff have all been wrong? And we`re just now waking up to the fact that this is actually very normal and acceptable? People come on,thats really reaching.
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thats an understatement! more like dillusional! but that goes without saying.
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AIDS a natural reaction, to unnatural action!
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Very nice,I like it. Lets face it the only real VICTIMS of AIDS, are the children born of stupid parents. The rest(fags,junkies,promiscuious persons)all were warned of the consequences, sorry no sympathy here!
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I totally agree,I get plenty of temptations to do deviant things but I don`t act on them. Get real the consequences are far to great, physical, mental, and especially spiritual. These people will discover the truth sooner or latter, in this life or the next.
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Americans and their puritanical values make me laugh. There are too many sheep here. Your being hearded to slaughter by the polical/religous mumbo jumbo you listen to and the fear engrained in you by the puritans from hell.
There is only one reason for political/religous groups to be against homosexual relationships. They don't procreate. We are falling way behind the muslems, people, not to mention the Chinese, Hindus...
AIDS is not a punishment for certain behavior. Disease is a natural selection process to strengthen the gene pool and advance the spieces, which goes back to procreation.
It is just like us to condemn people out of our fear and sheeplike attitudes. Too bad there isn't a natural selection answer for people who are unable to think for themselves and promote healthy societies rather than the failing one we are in now. I guess it's the Yin and the Yang. While evolution is creatively fighting for our spieces survival, we are destroying the quality of our lives through fear, hate, and apathy.
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Don't knock sheep until you've tried fuckin' 'em! :silly:
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On 2004-03-03 15:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
" so for all these years, the majority of people in the world who oppose this gay stuff have all been wrong? And we`re just now waking up to the fact that this is actually very normal and acceptable? People come on,thats really reaching."
It's called learning. Some people are capable of it, some people are not.
Kathy
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On 2004-03-03 15:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
" so for all these years, the majority of people in the world who oppose this gay stuff have all been wrong? And we`re just now waking up to the fact that this is actually very normal and acceptable? People come on,thats really reaching."
So correct me if I am not understanding you correctly.
If a majority of people in a society believe some action or predispositionn is wrong, or opposes it, they must be right?
So if the majority of a population in some area of the world feels it is wrong for a woman to show her face in public, get an education, or engage in premarital sex, and the men in that society feel it should be punishable by death, or burying that woman up to her armpits in mud for obscenity in Iran and stoning her to death... they must be right?
Do you hear what you are implying.
That is the flimsiest argument (at best) that I have heard on the subject.
When Americans felt that blacks should not marry whites, and when this was a law less than 50 years ago, and a majority of whites thought this was right, you are saying that we should have upheld those laws?
When a majority of citizens felt paranoia about Communism it was right to ruin peoples lives and blacklist them?
When Hitler rallied citizens of Germany behind him and a majority felt that Jews, Homosexuals, the handicapped , and Gypsys should be treated as second rate citizens, did this make them right?
When a majority felt it acceptable to burn women at the stake for fear they were witches... were they right?
What is your point? It just doesn't add up.
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On 2004-03-03 15:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
" thats an understatement! more like dillusional! but that goes without saying."
did you just agree with yourself? funny.
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On 2004-03-03 15:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
" so for all these years, the majority of people in the world who oppose this gay stuff have all been wrong? And we`re just now waking up to the fact that this is actually very normal and acceptable? People come on,thats really reaching."
I guess this bears repeating...THIS IS A TROLL, PAY NO ATTENTION. DUH! :roll:
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On 2004-03-03 15:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
" AIDS a natural reaction, to unnatural action!"
So what you have implied is that two same sex partners engaging in sexual acts = "unnatural "?
And what you are also saying is that these "acts" are punishable by death and enforced by who? God?
1) Maybe you can explain to me why there is not one documented case of woman to woman transmission from this type of "act"? Does God like lesbians better than gay men?
Through December 1998, 109,311 women were reported with AIDS.
Of these, only 2,220 were reported to have had sex with women; however, 98% also had another risk, sex with high-risk men, or receipt of blood or blood products?injection drug use in most cases. Further, A separate study of more than 1 million female blood donors found no HIV-infected women whose only risk was sex with women.
2) I can only think that you are a very troubled, hateful, mean individual.
With 500,000 deaths of children in 2003 alone how can you say something like this?
Currently, the largest epidemic reaching astronomical proportions is currently in Sub Saharan Africa.
Over 3 million men, women and children have been newly infected in 2003 alone (about 75% of cases worldwide) in contrast to the 36, 000 - 54, 000 in North America.
In 2003 about 700,000 children were infected and approximately 4.2 million adults worldwide.
Are you saying that Africans, Blacks, Minorities and children have performed some "unnatural act"?
Are you saying they should be punished for some unattainable reason known only to you?
Please educate me, or think before you speak about something as tragic as the deaths of children
or the loss of friends, family members and loved ones to HIV / AIDS.
People like you are precisely why the world has taken so long to realize that the threat of AIDS does not discriminate by age, race, sex, or sexual preference and why so many have died. Cruel, just plain cruel and ignorant.
You couldn't possibly be a Christian.
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On 2004-03-03 16:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
" I totally agree,I get plenty of temptations to do deviant things but I don`t act on them. Get real the consequences are far to great, physical, mental, and especially spiritual. These people will discover the truth sooner or latter, in this life or the next."
Oh. Your just pissed that they are having fullfilling relationships, pleasure, fun and love that you can't seem to allow yourself to have.
Ahh. Jealousy. It all makes sense now. I guess you fell for all that Newton stuff about being gay and found someone to confirm it when you got out. I feel a great deal of saddness for you and wish you all the best.
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On 2004-03-03 15:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
" AIDS a natural reaction, to unnatural action!"
again, this is a troll. Ignore and they will go away. Why do you keep playing into their hands??
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You clowns are so fuck`n funny. You call the ones who oppose you faggots "hatefull" and judgemental yet you write these long ass derogatory speaches in response to some posters that consist of more intolerance than the opposition.
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I like what they wrote about not having any authority to say what is RIGHT or WRONG. So if you really believe in moral relativism(the right for each individual to dicide whats right for them according to their beliefs)then Im going to assume that this is available to me as well, yes? Well I believe that if I see you swapping spit and rolling your tounge around another mans mouth then putting his cock in your ass and then licking the shit off of it, I can take a baseball bat to your skull with impunity! After all it may not be right for you but its okay for me! Sorry but you can`t have it both ways!
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I am a female of a heterosexual couple who enjoys the acts you so delisiously describe. Do you want to take a bat to my scull as well?
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So are they actually saying that the bible is B.S.? You know,God gave us free will and if you look around I would think that you would be smart enough to realize that society has made a mess out of this responsibility. Have you ever been a victim of violent crime? or had an experience with a child molester? Well I have and its a hell of a lot more scary than my B.S. kids restraint episodes! The guidlines in the bible are there to help us all live better, its not about punishment from above. I was an active advocate of the lesbian society for years, and even though I`ve always gravitated to other women even as a child I knew something was wrong.All the help I got was basically so called profesonal and only kept me stuck in that life style. I`m happy to say with the RIGHT help Im recovering from all that and have a healthy relationship with my husband,and you can too!
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no I don`t but I would like your phone number. besides I`m not violent, just making a point about how a society with no moral absolutes is foolish. Do you understand?
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I don't disagree with your point - only that you used a judgement to make it.
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keep your number miss, your to politically correct for me!
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First of all, let me just point out that the example given, that extreme violence is acceptable if queer sex (and marriage) is acceptable, is, to be blunt, idiotic. There is no comparison between extreme violence and the result of a loving relationship between people.
Second, as someone who survived a queerbashing in which I took a baseball bat to the head (in 1989), let me also say: fuck you. You would not even suggest that example if you knew the horror of that kind of attack.
Moral absolutes? There are very few. Sex with children is one. Yes, such absolutes do exist, and to say somehow that moral opposition to queer sex and gay marriage falls into that catagory is a classic logical fallacy, specifically a False Anaolgy (since both A and B are similar in some quality [here, both gay sex and extreme violence are objectionable to many people], then they are directly comparable in almost all ways [wrong]).
As to whether anyone is actually saying the Bible is "BS" - well, for me it is a nice book written by men; I have read it cover to cover twice, and there is much wisdom in there. However, it is not of divine authority, IMO.
I am just saying that it should not, nor any other religious book or system, be used as a basis for making governmental decisions. If witches were in the majority you would not like it if we required our practices and beliefs to be the basis of societal decisions. That said, I do think it would be a much kinder society if a few more people saw the kindness of the whole world around them, and less of how they need to control what others do.
Kathy
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I don't know why you care about who someone loves or fucks if you are happy in your own lives and relationships. Can't figure that out for the life of me. Maybe you just haven't found something satisfying yourself. Maybe that's why all the gay bashing and why you can't be happy for someone like Kathy finding a wonderful loving relationship.
I hear the New Era Baptist Church might be a good place for you all. Something about a AIDS being a CURSE from God on CNN tonight. You should have seen the interviewers face, with an "is he for fucking real or smoking crack" kind of look. Very funny. Well, I guess the lesbians really are o.k. in Gods book? It seems to be the logic here and also must be at the church mentioned above. Surely they'd have the "AIDS CURSE" wouldn't they? Someone explain this logic to me. I loved that! Kathy, you must be so relieved.
In kids they mocked people who were gay. They said it didn't exist.
It's so sad to me that you could not break free of these beliefs and all the brainwashing. Sad that you still after all these years can not think for yourself.
For the girl with the husband that wants everyone else to find the light...
that is called bisexual. You were never a dyke sweetie...
...consider that not everyone is like you, nor do they want to be. I believe you could choose gay or straight, but what makes you think others can? Did your minister at the New Era tell you so? More like the voice of Virgil still whispering in your ear?
No one is asking you to change so what do you care? Be proud of yourself and happy with who you are and let others enjoy their own love and relationships.
CONGRATULATIONS KATHY!
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You liberals are all the same, so boring. If you and every body else kept your nasty selves in the closets you`d have alot less trouble. But no you dopes are out there marching in the streets sometimes for no other reason than just to be RECOGNIZED or SEEN! so stop preaching oddkatt how normal it is when I see men(?) running around in fuck`n bikinis(trust me it wasn`t to hold his? chest up)and I have to explain to my son why these fucking freaks like you are having a HELL-o-ween parade in the middle of july. You all are so full of shit.
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go ahead enjoy your meaningful(?)loving relationships, but stop trying to get everybody to accept it. you freaks cry about every body pushing religious beliefs on you, well stop pushing your beliefs on others.
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that's right. They're pushing their beliefs on you. Watch out for the secret, underground gay attack force that kidnaps you, isolates you and slaps on a Babs/Liza/Judy wig and makes you watch old musicals on DVD and won't let you go til you've been 'cured' of your heterosexuality. :roll:
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That wasn`t very nice what that anon. poster said in response to my recovery from lesbianism. you didn`t read it very well, and I always notice that when anybody says they have found a way to get help the response is always the same, to bash and mock by making jokes about different churches and things like that. Its okay I love you no matter what you say or do, I used to be so afraid like you and I too would twist things ,much like you did in your post, anything to avoid the truth. if you need me I`ll be here.
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On 2004-03-05 14:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"go ahead enjoy your meaningful(?)loving relationships, but stop trying to get everybody to accept it. you freaks cry about every body pushing religious beliefs on you, well stop pushing your beliefs on others."
The problem with this argument is that the issue is one of equality, not beliefs. I could care less about what you believe if it means that the law is neutral and fair to all of us.
Gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender rights are about not being fired from your job for being queer, not being denied the right to buy a house or get an apartment where you want, and the right to live your life with the person of your chosing and having the legal benefits and responsibilities available to heterosexual couples.
Kathy
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i know the gay oldcomers really enjoyed their time at Straight.
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They're in love. They're gay. They're penguins... And they're not alone. ::rainbow::
http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork ... 10/591.asp (http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/cns/2002-06-10/591.asp)
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Yeah - love the queer penguins. And of course they live in my old home town.
And by the way: can I commend you Straight folks on the great user names you all come up with? Dr. Fucktard, Buttsteak, Penis Birders Anonymous - wow! Just fabulous.
Kathy
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On 2004-03-05 14:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
" You liberals are all the same, so boring. If you and every body else kept your nasty selves in the closets you`d have alot less trouble. But no you dopes are out there marching in the streets sometimes for no other reason than just to be RECOGNIZED or SEEN! so stop preaching oddkatt how normal it is when I see men(?) running around in fuck`n bikinis(trust me it wasn`t to hold his? chest up)and I have to explain to my son why these fucking freaks like you are having a HELL-o-ween parade in the middle of july. You all are so full of shit."
The question I ask you: What are you going to do if your son is gay, or your grandson? How will you explain the previous hatred and intolerance you have tried to ingrain in him? I think the number's are one in 10? How sad for a child to grow up with such a hateful parent calling other human beings "fucking freaks." What happens if he becomes more hateful than you and strings some queer up on a fence to die? Will you pat him on the back and send him cigarettes on death row?
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First of all, I don't know of too many places where gays are not allowed to rent or purchase homes. The gay population per capita is one of the wealthiest. Nobody gives a shit who they sleep with or what they do in their bedroom. Its the in your face flamboyant....hello Im gay Im gay Im in your Face...who gives a shit. Like I flutter around Im hetro, Im hetro.... All most of us are saying is we dont care..pluuuueeeezzzzz. The last thing I do when I meet somone is say you know Im a hetro right? to see their reaction. I have a gay co-worker, him and all his little buddies are all the same as explained. Again...WHO CARES. If the world was filled with homosexuals there would be nobody!!!!!! get the point. I am tolerant but I am not changing to fit their needs......their choice they need adjust accordingly to scociety instead of trying to impose their will on every one else. And yes if my son was gay I would still love him and yes my views would still be the same.
[ This Message was edited by: thepatriot on 2004-03-10 21:31 ]
[ This Message was edited by: thepatriot on 2004-03-11 04:17 ]
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On 2004-02-24 06:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Are you AA ?? By some of your verbage I think so. Well I look at this site as a support group,AA talks about the past as well.We talk about the good, the bad and the difference here.And if you don`t like what we do....Why the hell do you read and check in????
You do feel what we talk about, but have to much fear to be real. I believe your still in your own denil.
Good luck
"
Thank you...I couldn't have said it better myself.
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On 2004-03-05 14:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
" That wasn't very nice what that anon. poster said in response to my recovery from lesbianism. you didn't read it very well, and I always notice that when anybody says they have found a way to get help the response is always the same, to bash and mock by making jokes about different churches and things like that. Its okay I love you no matter what you say or do, I used to be so afraid like you and I too would twist things ,much like you did in your post, anything to avoid the truth. if you need me I`ll be here."
Let me say that I am sorry if you are upset. That was not my intention.
However, I hope you will understand that you chose to post your opinion and and those opinions do in fact mirror the minister at the New Era, the things I've heard at Kids and from Virgil Miller Newton himself and I am merely drawing a parallel.
Further, I would just like to ask you why you feel such a strong need to speak up and out against people who are gay. If you are as committed to your faith and the bible as you portray, then why have you not spoken up against insults against people, name calling, and most markedly the violent remarks about taking bats to another human being's head? Though shalt not kill. Love thy neighbor. I don't believe Thou shalt not be gay made the top ten on God's list. Nor do I understand why you assume everyone here is gay in the first place.
I am truly happy for you, if true happiness is what you have found in your relationship with your husband, especially with the sexual abuse in your past and the experiences you have described as these clearly are an obstacle for many who have suffered rape, incest and sexual abuse.
As far as my comment about you not being a lesbian, perhaps you are not aware of the definition. If you can be with either male or female and make that choice you would be defined as bisexual not a lesbian. That's all I'm saying.
les·bi·an; of or relating to homosexuality between two females, a female homosexual
bi·sex·u·al; sexually oriented toward BOTH sexes, of, relating to, or involving both sexes
Be proud of yourself and happy with who you are and let others enjoy their own love and relationships.
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On 2004-03-10 21:29:00, thepatriot wrote:
"First of all, I don't know of too many places where gays are not allowed to rent or purchase homes. The gay population per capita is one of the wealthiest. Nobody gives a shit who they sleep with or what they do in their bedroom. Its the in your face flamboyant....hello Im gay Im gay Im in your Face...who gives a shit. Like I flutter around Im hetro, Im hetro.... All most of us are saying is we dont care..pluuuueeeezzzzz. The last thing I do when I meet somone is say you know Im a hetro right? to see their reaction. I have a gay co-worker, him and all his little buddies are all the same as explained. Again...WHO CARES. If the world was filled with homosexuals there would be nobody!!!!!! get the point. I am tolerant but I am not changing to fit their needs......their choice they need adjust accordingly to scociety instead of trying to impose their will on every one else. And yes if my son was gay I would still love him and yes my views would still be the same.
[ This Message was edited by: thepatriot on 2004-03-10 21:31 ]
[ This Message was edited by: thepatriot on 2004-03-11 04:17 ]"
TOLERANT?: I'm not sure how you can boast "tolerance" when you are calling people "freaks" "little buddies" "nasty selves" "dopes" "fucking freaks" and asking them to keep it in the "bedroom." Sounds more like hatred to me.
NOBODY GIVES A SHIT?: If nobody gave a shit this wouldn't be an issue here or across our country. You wouldn't be posting this sewage and our president wouldn't be threatening an amendment to our constitution. My gay friends wouldn't be beaten to near death on the street for holding hands or simply not looking feminine or masculine enough.
IF YOUR SON WERE GAY: would you not want him to have the same rights as everyone else?
Would you want him to live in fear? Hide who he is? How would you feel if he were beaten or attacked for holding hands in public or kissing, for the clothes he wore or less? What if he were murdered or beaten simply on the perception that he was gay? I just hope you will consider that as well as your definition of "tolerant".
I think you take for granted that you and every other straight person can hold hands, kiss, show affection in public each and every day of your lives, anywhere you like. You have lived your life and can walk around each and every day free of the fear that you might be beaten, lose your job, might be turned down for an apartment because someone thinks you are a "freak", might be murdered, might be mocked, might be arrested, might not be able to visit your dying partner in the hospital because you have no rights, might lose the house you and your partner bought together or have to pay an inheritance tax because you could not get married...
Perhaps if gay people hadn't been repressed for so long they wouldn't have gone to such an extreme. I say let them celebrate the small gains they have made and wish them equality.
REPRODUCTION: Honey, women don't need to have sex with any man to have a baby.
Do you really believe that there would be no one if the world were only filled with homosexuals?
Pretty flimsy argument there.
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OMG... did anyone see The Daily Show's report on "Gay Penguins"? Fucking hilarious. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: You gotta love it when you see the religious right wingers get completely blown out of the water and they don't even fucking realize it.
Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)
[ This Message was edited by: cayohueso on 2004-03-11 22:16 ]
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Maybe,just maybe the reason rest of us don`t suffer these pursecutions for public displays of affection is because, we are normal! And if you want to put yourselves on the same inteligence level as two confused birds,then you`ve proven the truth!By the way, you gay`s are always welcome at the zoo!
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Pull the stick out of your ass and grow a damn sense of humor. The piece was intended as a joke, that would require a sense of humor to understand. My experience has been that most 'Christians' seem to have had theirs surgically removed. :roll: :lol:
I believe that human beings arrive on this Earth wanting to know absolutely everything, and the best thing we can do as parents is to get out of the way -- just be there to let them know what opportunities are there
-- Dorothy Werner, media liaison for the National Homeschool Association