Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Carmel on February 17, 2004, 02:28:00 PM
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Hey all--
Just a little bit of opinion and maybe a tad of advice thrown in. I am not trying to censor or downplay anyones feelings or opinions....let me repeat that I AM NOT TRYING TO CENSOR OR DOWNPLAY ANYONES FEELINGS OR OPINIONS.....got it? Gotta make sure........BUT...
This board is a voice for Survivors, not only to each other, but to those who want to better understand our plight. Posting about fucking so and so...and generally off topic rambling can look a bit shady to those not so clear on exactly what or who we are, and why we all post here.
Let me say that rather than look at this as being censored by others (namely me in this post) look at it as an attempt to censor yourself in the name of the cause.
When someone who is influential or otherwise a possible supporter for our cause logs onto this forum, the last thing they are going to want to get involved with is a bunch of backwater trashtalking and incoherent rambling. We need to take it upon ourselves to step up and give an appreance of people who arent totally messed up, not so much in that we cant even support a coherent discussion forum anyway. Given all the attention that we potentially may garner.
Now is the time when our "cause" is on the verge of taking off, and I would think that although we have many feelings of hatred, resentment, and anger still about our treatment in the past....we can possibly better channel it into something useful, by our own volition. Do you get me? My suggestion is reserve the more heavy stuff for a private messaging partner...or invite someone in on a private chat. There is no reason why the anger shouldnt be voiced you guys....but if anyone is ever going to take this thing seriously...the least we could do is reign ourselves in a bit and give those fighting on the frontlines that much more help in not having to sift out the insanity and present us to the world.
This is just a thought you all, im not trying to put anyone down...we just have to think bigger than whats been posted around here lately.
I am open to response on this...its just my viewpoint.
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ok, as one who has posted rambling shit at times on this board, I agree with Carmel. I'll stop; but to be honest, some of the shit about ruthie and coke bottles made me laugh so fucking hard that tears came out of my eyes.
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I couldn't agree with you more. I really wish people could show a little more dignity, maturity, and self control. I've been pretty embarrassed for the postings lately, and haven?t wanted to post as a result of it. This is a very important time, and it ruins the appearance, and credibility of the straight survivors to have all of this tasteless, thoughtless crap on the board. It serves no purpose, it makes us look terrible as survivors, and does nothing for our cause. It's enough to drive people away.
Thank you for starting this thread, I hope it helps get the point across.
Carmel------> ::kiss:: <------me
Step 1. We came to understand that the government is powerless over people's private use of drugs and that the War on Drugs was making the government's life unmanageable.
--Scott Tillinghast
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:roll: Yeah, and thanks for posting anon, so you can't edit or delete this useless comment.
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
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Anonymous . . . for obvious reasons
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Well, they wouldn't be able to delete it anyway, since you quoted them already...
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Sometimes I think people write posts like "I fucked Miller's mom" as a way of venting their anger for what they experienced at Straight. If writing a piece of fiction has some kind of therapeutic value to them, then by all means they should continue to do so. They paid their dues for membership in this club, they have a right to their feelings and quite possibly they are getting more therapeutic value out of their ramblings than others may get by having hourlong shoutfests outside of Mel Sembler's. I saw the POTTV episode about Straight, and I can tell you that a lot of the "activism" I saw was really quite sad. Three people shouting slogans over a bullhorn and carrying folded signs for han hour is not my idea of an effective protest against the perpetrators of the American Nightmare that was Straight, Inc.
I also nearly cried from laughing so hard at a couple of the posts, some of those guys seem like talented writers. If by laughing at the situations described in the posts helps me put my experience at the Straight gulag (StPete-early 80s) behind me and makes it a little less painful, then they have done me a wonderful service.
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Whip me 'til I bleed, but I agree. Laughter is the best medicine. Maybe it puts some people off, granted. But then so do a lot of things. People who read between the lines will keep reading... :smokin:
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yeah I kind of agree there everything is so serious, I don't think I can take all seriousness all the time, if we were just to post serious thing after serious thing
I'd soon blow my brains out
but lets not become Elan jr over here ....they scare meIf the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race?
--Frederic Bastiat -- 1801-1850
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EDIT : no longer relevant
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Staring down the hole again..Hands are on my back again.Survival is my only friend..terrified of what may come.Remember
I will always love you..as I tear your fucking throat away..this can end no other way
[ This Message was edited by: Therion on 2004-02-21 14:35 ]
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EDIT; No longer relevant
_________________
Staring down the hole again..Hands are on my back again.Survival is my only friend..terrified of what may come.Remember
I will always love you..as I tear your fucking throat away..this can end no other way
[ This Message was edited by: Therion on 2004-02-21 14:35 ]
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[/quote]"Yeah, and thanks for posting anon, so you can't edit or delete this useless comment"
[/quote]
whatever. :roll:
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As the author of a couple of the posts that you refer to, I felt obligated to speak out on this thread. The posts are obviously intended to be therapeutic and entertaining. It helps me (and apparently a few others, judging by the comments) deal with what has to be, hands-down the worst episode of my life. I may have a sick sense of humor, granted. I may be "dwelling in the past" and not "getting over it". I don't care. It amuses me to think about the perpetrators of Straight in unpleasant situations, and I enjoy sharing these amusing stories with others, particularly Survivors who will know the people and situations I'm writing about, and who will get the "inside jokes" or references to certain aspects of the stories that would be meaningless to outsiders.
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On 2004-02-17 19:34:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"Well, they wouldn't be able to delete it anyway, since you quoted them already..."
Yes, but I can edit my post! :idea: :wink: Ardent advocates of prohibition were obsessed by a zeal that bordered on fanaticism. They supported politicians who voted to outlaw liquor, no matter how much of it they privately consumed, and spurned politicians who voted against prohibition, no matter how sober they were personally.
Sen. Sam Ervin, Preserving The Constitution
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Right, the thought occurred to me later that you could put words into/take them out of his/her mouth (by editing his/her quote) but why on earth would you want to do that? :roll:
Anal people of the world unite!
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I wouldn't edit someone else's post, Alex.
I don't go lookin' for trouble. I just keep a little in a box should someone come by who is.
--Bill Warbis
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Right...my point exactly..
Oh, nevermind...
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If anyone came to these sites and didn't understand that people are here to express themselves then they probabily couldn't or wouldn't help anyway. The truth is the truth, you guys shouldn't always worry about wha people may think of you. I say laugh it up disgrace those who need to be accountable.
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If you think that the way to make an impression, and get attention towards this enormous issue, is to be disgusting, and perverse, you've got a lot to learn about life.
I'm personally sick and tired of reading about sodomey and the like. Reading the posts here would leave anyone with the impression that the people who post here are moraless, tackless, mental cases, with sick twisted stupid sences of humor!
Haven't we had a hard enough time getting people to even hear our story?
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On 2004-02-19 10:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
moraless, tackless, mental cases, with sick twisted stupid sences of humor!
Who can't spell either
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If you think that the way to make an impression, and get attention towards this enormous issue, is to be disgusting, and perverse, you've got a lot to learn about life.
--Yeah you're right...I've never heard of Howard Stern, Larry Flynt, even Lenny Bruce or anybody using shock value to grab someone's attention to a larger issue. Attempts at censorship usually begin with attitudes like yours. Somebody thinks that what someone else has to say is offensive or potentially offensive, so it shouldn't be said. Pretty soon you can't read anything but the Bible until 3rd pase, and you better not listen to 98 Rock even then.
I'm personally sick and tired of reading about sodomey and the like
--Nothing depicted in any of the posts was any more disgusting than the everyday routine and occurances at Straight Inc. when I was there in 1982. I know of cases of rape that occured to inmates of both sexes. Besides, Miller deserves it.
the people who post here are moraless, tackless, mental cases, with sick twisted stupid sences of humor!
--I may lack morals, making me amoral. I prefer the term "ethics", indicating self-restraint, to the term "morals" meaning restraints placed by others.
Did you mean tactless? Maybe I am, but not as tactless as some people at places I have been held against my will under the guise of "therapy".
Sick, twisted, stupid sense of humor? Guilty as charged, Your Honor, I think the whole thing is funny as hell.
:wave:
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1)I think graphic descriptions of rape are just a bad idea, period, and hurtful to a lot of people. People here, knowing what they do about PTSD, should know this. And I think people who find it hurtful are a lot less likely to say something than people who find it funny. I think it's sad if we do things to hurt each other here, where we're all dealing with how much Straight hurt us.
2)I still think you have the right to post that shit.
3)No cause has ever been helped by trying to appear "respectable" to the enemy or to fence-sitters, as far as I know...that usually leads to selling out (I am NOT calling anyone a sell-out, just stating my opinion on the way things usually progress).
4)Parents who are considering Straight-like treatment centers for their children should see these posts, simply for the nice contrast to "Before the program I just did what my druggie will told me and I got a C- in algebra and and I argued all the time but now I have self-esteem and a higher power and my family relationship is wonderful" etc.
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That was me, I forgot to log in before I started writing.
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[ This Message was edited by: The Devil Therion on 2004-02-19 15:42 ]
[ This Message was edited by: The Devil Therion on 2004-02-21 14:40 ]
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If you think that the way to make an impression, and get attention towards this enormous issue, is to be disgusting, and perverse, you've got a lot to learn about life. etc...
You make some damned good points here, IDNB.
You call yourself the Moral Majority
We call ourselves the people in the real world
Trying to rub us out, but we're going to survive
God must be dead if you're alive
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I respect everyones response here.....I would like to agree on one point especially...feelings need to be expressed, no doubt. And we all have the right to express them. Just like to keep in mind that this board, like everything in life, is a complex working structure....and unfortunately, the same rules of reality apply to it. There is no one right answer...its just some food for thought, everyone can do a little bit in keeping in mind who may come across this place and maybe changing it up a little.... thats all.
I have more to say but gotta run for my beebee!
to be continued...
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Carmel:
You are savvy and understand public opinion but there are too many (by now) 30 -40 year old juveniles who as straight taught will never mature. They are still floating BS around trying to play BMOC and impress each other. You got a losing battle trying to make them understand rational thought.
In early February and March of 81 there was a guy leading most Open meetings. Dark hair and stocky build....anybody remember who he was. He was Miller's pride and joy........
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Richard Knowles? or maybe, Bret Patterson?
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They are still floating BS around trying to play BMOC and impress each other. You got a losing battle trying to make them understand rational thought.
Oh, hey there mr/mrs intelligence..since you're so much smarter than the rest of us, why don't you elaborate a little...BMOC..yeah that really says a lot about what we were talking about. You're a dope.
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On 2004-02-23 19:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"there are too many (by now) 30 -40 year old juveniles who as straight taught will never mature. They are still floating BS around trying to play BMOC and impress each other. You got a losing battle trying to make them understand rational thought.
I'm going to make this as succinct and concise as possible: Fuck you. Shut up, puppetboy.