Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Therion on January 21, 2004, 07:21:00 AM
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Perhaps you missed the point..I didnt think it was disrespectful personally...but thats my opinion.The attack was on one person from what I saw...the protesting was done outside yes? What do you feel was in bad taste? The fact that we werent executed made it inappropriate?
Im not being an ass im honestly asking..Perhaps you could be more specific in your complaint.
But the gist im getting is ...Jews were murdered and Straight kids were not so how dare we bring it up at that locale? I wasnt even there, and I have an open mind to you...Please state your argument more clearly..
And 100s of 1000s didint get executed...but the 100s of suicides count in my mind...
[ This Message was edited by: Therion on 2004-01-21 04:40 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Therion on 2004-01-21 05:06 ]
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Jordan - I was at the picket and I would like to tell you why I attended. I was there to protest the fact that Sembler's et al, Epstein adn Lowenberg, individuals that were directly responsible for Straight Inc being in existance for 17 years as members of the board of directors, are also on the Holocaust Museum's board of directors. What I chanted (among other things) "remove Melvin, and Betty Sember, Bruce Epstien and Walter Lowenberg from the Board of directors of the holocaust museum. It is not right that they are on the board of directors of the holocaust museum. The holocaust museum is an honorable organization and it is disrespectful to the people that died in the holacust, survivors and the jewish people."
Please tell me...how is that out of line? I did not lie. I was not dishonest. I told people what happened to me in straight, what I saw and we pointed out wherre some of the blame lies. We have tried to utilize the traditional sources of media to state our case, but the influence of those responsible for straigh tis still so great in the Tampa Bay area, that no one will even give us the time of day. Do you not believe in peaceful demonstration? Can not a person of jewish faith be held accountable for crimes against children. Please, enlighten me.
sincerely,
Kpickle39
straight survivor, st pete '78 - '80
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I feel that it is not bad taste at all. The pamphlet state clearly why they were protesting and who, and that it was not the jewish cause.
and what better way to show Melvin Sembler and his kinds duality for what it was then when they are speaking about human rights and representing past wrongs.
protesting is only effective if it disrupts something important, emabrasses them in a way that will be felt.
Protesting something less important would have done nothing.
I think that you are wrong. I don't think you understand.
Are you saying that one injustice is more important then another? I hope not because an injustice is an injustice. Straight kids were tortured and it is still happening in similar programs. Kids have died by their own hands because of this place and continue to live with psycholocial repercussions.
Please do not compare our injustice to downplay it and make Melvin Sembler not held up before his peers as the person he truly is.
I would think more then ever you should want everyone to know, and get him away from being associated with the Holocaust Museum.Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!
--Albert Einstein
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The Honorable people of the Holocaust Museum have a right to know. ?ESPECIALLY THE CONTRIBUTORS? Don?t you think they will be concerned to find out they have an abuser in their midst? We have eyewitnesses that the people inside the event were ?VERY? concerned as they should be. What I don?t understand is how anyone Jewish can hesitate to expose someone EVIL, especially another Jewish person. What gives here? Why doesn?t the Jewish community rise up and make Sembler accountable??
Why are you more critical of the survivors of straight than the perpetrator of the crimes, Sembler? Don?t you think that what he did to us was in bad taste? Don?t you think that the museum involvement with Sembler is in bad taste? Don?t you think that Sembler portraying himself as a champion of helping kids is in bad taste?
Wake up and Smell the abuse??..it?s the same core beliefs as Hitler. He justified his vision by abusing people. It was wrong then and it?s wrong now with Sembler
SEMBLER = BAD TASTE AND DISHONOR
America deserves better than that, also it?s bad taste for the Bush family to be associated with Sembler as they are. The truth will come out here, could you imagine the effect it could have on the election when Americans understand that the Bush family works with child abusers??
LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD????..
ABUSE SHALL NOT STAND EVEN IF YOUR JEWISH! THE JEWISH COMMUNITY SHOULD HAVE THE HIGEST STANDARDS!! WHY DON?T THEY DO MORE??????????
All I see from the Jewish community thus far is a cycle of looking the other way and sweeping it under the carpet. This is deplorable and I believe all of the major members of the board of directors for the Holocaust museum should be fired if they don?t take action. This is a clear a present situation that needs action, not excuses.
I CHALLENGE YOU TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN YOUR JEWISH COMMUNITY.
I personally met with the Larry Lasser Executive directory of the Holocaust museum about a year ago with Sammie at the holocaust museum. They copied all of our documents. They promised they would do something. As I walked outside past the sign on the wall thanking Mel Sembler for money, I wanted to throw up.
The Holocaust museum decided to do nothing in the face of all the facts. This is sad and this is Sick. And most importantly ?THIS WON?T STAND?
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Jordan...
You mentioned choosing battles....it seems to me that is exactly what these people did, and did well. What do you feel is in poorer taste? The protest itself? Or the fact that these abusers are involved heavily with an organization that represents, well....represents YOU, to be specific. The time for good and bad taste is over....good taste went out the window back in the 70's when the Seed opened and this whole mess began.
If you knew a Nazi affiliate was involved in the Holocaust organization, would you think twice about whether or not your comments or actions to depose that person were in good taste? I think maybe no....these people are not Nazi's, however, I would think that given their history and involvement in the abuses of Straight....that Jewish people would want to think twice about them running their organization. Do you agree? How long before they start recruiting Jewish kids in your community to be tossed into the next generation of The Program? Dont let history repeat itself.
Everyone at the protest specifically informed the people present about exactly WHY they were there, and how they were not opposing the organization, merely the people running it. I would like to think that a group of intelligent people like I assume were in attendance there...would be able to know the difference.
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Jordan, this reminds me of some priest trying to protect his brethren from being prosecuted for abusing children, and as you know, those 'protected' priests got away with it for YEARS until people started coming forth and holding them accountable as the abusers they were. What's really tasteless here?????? Us picketing against abuse or someone HIDING it?????
Not saying you're trying to protect anyone Jordan, I'm saying that we have gotten nowhere with this group. It's time for those 4 to quit hiding behind religion (as did the priests), and own up to their involvement in Straight. They need to be kicked off the museum board, the museum has known about this situation for a while now and has done nothing about it. We are not going anywhere until they do.
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Not in bad taste at all...Gey gezunterheyt.
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typical jew
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On 2004-01-21 07:58:00, Sheik Yerbouti wrote:
"when u have relatives that burned in ovens maybe u will know.. all you people are radicalists that insist on comparing apples to oranges, its husr bad taste, make ur point elsewhere, get over yourseleves and learn soem common decency, the overwhelminf resposne to my post is just symbolic of how dilluded most of you are...bad taste is bad taste, if u dont see it, then my point has been proven...
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Now YOU remember something. Most of us had people in our families fighting and dieing to liberate those camps where your relatives were killed. They died to make a better life for them and us here. America (the liberator) should represent a country that doesn't encourage people to go into business torturing young people either. And if you still want to feel sorry for yourself and your struggle, then go to hell. Two wrongs NEVER make a right. Oh, and screw your "profound judgment", I have rights too and they were violated asshole.
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On 2004-01-21 08:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"typical jew"
Bullshit, that was completely unnecessary.
Jordan - I respect what your family went through, but please go read the flyer that was passed out. It's on Wes' site. It CLEARLY states that this had NOTHING to do with the Holocaust Museum itself - it was simply an attempt to let people know who is on that board and what they truly stand for. One of my good friends has a grandfather that is still alive and has his tatoo on the inside of his forearm. When the news of this protest first hit, she asked him his thoughts. He, a survivor of Auschwitz, was COMPLETELY BEHIND THE PROTEST. He understood the distinction, especially after reading the flyer. He was of the opinion that Sembler was a hypocrit and that the contributors and supporters of the museum would absolutely want to know what this guy did. I think if THIS guy can see the distinction, others can also.Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
Mahatma Gandhi, My Autobigraphy, p. 446
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Oh, come on with the "typical Jew" BS anon..
Jordan, take a deep breath and consider that there was nothing but good intentions with the whole thing, and most importantly, SEMBLER and co. should NOT be on that board. It's as simple as that. What's the problem?
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On 2004-01-21 08:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"typical jew"
I agree with the other poster. THAT was a rotten thing to say. I am also the person who called Jordan an asshole.
You don't have to be a bigot to get your point across. I have a strong disagreement with him and maybe I was a little hot under the collar, but that kind shit is unnecessary.
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I agree it was in bad taste. To think otherwise not only shows a lack of perspective in life, but mental impairment. Genocide is one thing. Not agreeing with a treatment modality is another. BTW Im not jewish, Im just compassionate.
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On 2004-01-21 08:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To think otherwise not only shows a lack of perspective in life, but mental impairment. "
So by that statement, the Auscwitz survivor I spoke of has no perspective in life?!?!?!?!?!?!A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another; shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement
Thomas Jefferson
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On 2004-01-21 04:10:00, Sheik Yerbouti wrote:
"i am all about ending the starights and sending those responsible to hell. HOWEVER ya'll need to exercise some better discretion than to protest a Holocaust shindig.. Pick ur battles, I am Jewish, i have relatives that were gassed and burned alive by the real Nazis some 60 years ago, i have relatives that had been tatooed etc..Therefore my opinion is u all need to tone it down...bad, bad taste..get it togther peoples...check out my letter to Michael Moore in the Elan forum
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It directly relates... :grin: No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
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On 2004-01-21 08:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I agree it was in bad taste. To think otherwise not only shows a lack of perspective in life, but mental impairment. Genocide is one thing. Not agreeing with a treatment modality is another. BTW Im not jewish, Im just compassionate. "
Well, I am Jewish. I was also in straight, and would have been there holding a sign myself, had I been able too. Your argument is useless. Go away.We must create an atmosphere where the crooked cop fears the honest cop, and not the other way around.
Frank Serpico
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:roll:
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin
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I completely agree with Sheik. I have the same blood running in my body and the same past horror. I especially place that horror above my own experience which doesnt even come close to being in a cattle car. Get a grip. Listen Sheik not everyone here disagrees with you. Keep your mind and your heart strong and dont pay mind to others choices. It is not a path that intersects yours in the big picture. From what I know, even Mel has family which suffered the fate we are talking about. I dont care how much people hate a man. That man deserves to have his time to say Kaddish for his loss no matter what he did or does.
Tzeth'a Leshalom VeShuvh'a Leshalom
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I don't think anyone is trying to stop him from worshipping in whatever way he likes. I personally wouldn't dream of comparing what I went through in Straight to being in Auschwitz....BUT I do think that people need to know what this man promotes. I just called my friend I spoke of before with the grandfather who was in Auschwitz. He is very upset about the fact that Sembler continues to promote the kind of "treatment" he does and continues to blow his horn about all the good he did in Straight. As I said before....I completely respect peoples feelings about the Holocaust, but if an actual survivor of the camps can tell the difference between protesting Sembler and protesting the Holocaust Memorial, then I think the average person of average intelligence can handle it.
I'm also glad this thread is being discussed and I, for one, do not want to see Jordan or anyone else go away. They are entitled to their opinion just as I am and I didn't see any personal attacks when he was stating his opinion. It's an opportunity for discussion and, at least for most of the thread, no one attacked him personally.
I have to admit that when I first heard, way back, about people wanting to protest at the museum, I was apprehensive....BUT....the more JEWISH people I spoke with, the more convinced I became that it was the right thing to do. Not just because it will bring publicity to our cause, but because EVERY ONE OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE I SPOKE WITH WANTED OTHERS TO KNOW WHAT SEMBLER DID AND THEY SUPPORTED PROTESTING AT THE MUSEUM.
Something that one of them said really stuck in my mind. They don't want someone who promotes abuse to others representing them. They think it sets a dangerous precedent.Fresh beauty opens one's eyes wherever it is really seen, but the very abundance and completeness of the common beauty that besets our steps prevents its being absorbed and appreciated. It is a good thing, therefore, to make short excursions now and then to the bottom of the sea among dulse and coral, or up among the clouds on mountain-tops, or in balloons, or even to creep like worms into dark holes and caverns underground, not only to learn something of what is going on in those out-of-the-way places, but to see better what the sun sees on our return to common everyday beauty.
-- John Muir
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exactly well put.
I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I'm a human being first and foremost, and as such I am for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole
--Malcolm X
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, i would miss ur point entirely and just see that u are protesting a Holocaust Shindig...17 replies in less than half a day, most of which are hostile and angry, you all are like vultures
What you're saying here is that we can't protest at that event for fear that people will not be able to think things through and realize the true cause for the protest. That ain't good enough of a reason not to do it, I'm sorry, but that's weak. And dude, straight survivors got every reason to be hostile if that's how we come off. My apologies for their racial bullshit, though.
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That man deserves to have his time to say Kaddish for his loss no matter what he did or does.
I disagree. He's an evil man, and should be behind bars. He should also be considered a disgrace to the Jewish community, not any sort of representative. He's an embarrassment.
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TO Jordan,
I am a Straight survivor a Jew and a Democrat...I also had distant relatives that died in the Shoah (Holocaust)....Jewish Law remind us that Jews have a responsibility to be more accountable, responsible & ethical. Due to Our People's history we have even more of a duty to speak out against crimes against humanity. As I wrote on a previous post Mel Sembler & the other Jews on that Board are a disgrace to our People and the Jewish community. They need to be held accountable! It is as simple as that! I think it is complete hypocrisy for them to be on the Holocaust Board....As a Jew it's a slap in the face.....It would be like a black protesting slavery then lynching Mexicans.
Let me remind the Forum that the Semblems do NOT represent the Jewish Community....The main Social Worker who interviewed me & took my testimony after I AWOLed from the Cal Straight was Jewish....She was responsible for shutting down Straight in CA....She also urged authorities to stop the transfer to DAllas however, it was out of CA hands and in the parents hands...SHE WAS A JEW!!!..The majority of Jews in this country are Democrats and do not support the Republicans. The Semblers are an exception to the rule! Also like someone else said a lot of Chritians made a huge profit from Straingt inc...
Also to the anonymous ASS WIPE who said "typical JEW" We don't want to hear your ANTISEMITISM....Take it elsewhere....
Shalom
Nicole Esther
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Sorry I forgot to sign in ....
Nicoleesther
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PS AS a Jew and Straight Survivor I SUPPORT THE PROTEST!!!!
Nicole Esther :smokin:
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BTW... in no way am comparing Straight to the Holocaust.....I am simply stating that if I were you Jordan, and I knew these sort of people were representing my faith and my community...I would question the earnestness of that representation given their lack of scruples in the past.
Just as if I were going to a church and I knew that my pastor had been involved in embezzelment and fraud in the past......and continued to be involved with these crimes.....how would I be able to allow that man to speak on behalf of God for me? Or on behalf of anything for that matter? Being Jewish or anything else really is irrelevant here.
I dont have relatives that were burned in ovens.....I did have a child that was killed in a car accident.....and if it means a little bad taste in order to hold those accountable who abuse children who are still in this world....then maybe a little bad taste is the order of the day.
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Your arguments are getting lame...and your last post sounds like you hate just as much as anyone else....
Got something against people from the south?
Am I a hateful person? Yes..I learned it from the Semblers :evil: :evil:
[ This Message was edited by: Therion on 2004-01-21 15:32 ]
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Sheik,
Oh wow, a 500 hundred-dollar contract, am I supposed to be impressed? Why don?t you invest in a spell checker or learn how to write? 500 bucks in nothing, I make much more than that per day at times and I don?t try to hold it over people?s heads!
It is absolutely amazing how you want us to have compassion for Jewish history, and in the next sentence try to judge people from the south. Nascar? Miller lite? You are a bigot! By your own words this is true.
YOU ARE IN BAD TASTE
YOU ARE AN IDIOT
I DON?T GIVE A DAMN WHAT YOU THINK
WE WILL WIN
SEMBLER AND COMPANY WILL GO TO JAIL
I look forward to a major protest at the Holocaust Museum. If people don?t understand then they are ignorant and irrelevant!!
THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH!!
VSP
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The reason for the protest was to remove mel sembler, betty sembler, lowenstein and whoever else that were once a part of straight inc. and DFAF (and proud of it) from the board of directors at the Holocaust museum. Having mel and betty and lowenstein on the board is a disgrace to Jewish people and the Jewish community because mel and betty and lowenstein are disgraceful, dishonorable and criminals. The Jewish people deserve to be held in high regard, not associated with pond scum like Mel and betty and lowenstein. Mel, betty and lowenstein are responsible for child abuse in the worst way. I seriously doubt any Jewish person would find it comforting to have a former Nazi or even Hilter on the Board of directors for the welfare of school children. Please think about this. Protect the children and protect the dignity of the Jewish people.
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Your a moron. Get over it? Thank God people don't have to depend on brave activists like yourself to get things done.
They are trying to close Elan, and no one is trying to compare injustices here. Except perhaps for you.
What is the problem with you and the south anyway. "Southern Man don't need you around anyhow!"....Lynryd Skynyrd
the only person with no life obviously is you. Your the one posting hourly here man. Your angry and your mean. And I think that your an asshole.
you think we are going to fail? Well we don't need people like you on our side anyway. With an attitude like that nothing would ever change. People would still be slaves. Nothing would change in this world. You have to believe in stuff want to see it change have courage and faith and be willing to try and change it even if it does seem hopeless.
So take your penny loafer and shove it!
And just for clarification this has nothing to do with your religion this just has to do with you. JUST YOU.
Don't laugh when you leave this courtroom, thinking you have beat the system because you have looked these things up yourself. We are going to get you down the road.
Washington Superior CourtJudge Rebecca Baker
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Kady kind of beat me to the punch on this one...I was gonna say that it's weird how at first this was about the "bad taste" thing, and then, as we hash it out a little, you add in the "you all need to get over it, why waste your time, etc.." line of pure d'crap. Just an observation. I wonder what it is about the protest that really bothers you.
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While I agreed with your opinion about the choice of venues, I must say the lash is a bit strong. If I had a nickel for everytime I was called a kike or heeb..... I mean why get so crazy in forum where you dont know or cant meet these people face to face. I value their opnion as much as my own whch is why I come here. Its a place to talk, not to act like chaye trash. Be cool and let the "typical jew" thing go. Its not the place. And Ms KD and the others, I am also disenchanted by this mans behavior even though we share the same opinion but please refrain from the name calling. I agree he went off the hook but it will just beget more of the same if we lose our whole reason for coming here. That is to speak to eachother in a responsible and civilised manner. I have lost my mind with a few of the posts I have seen in here but I just ignored it. If you all take ofense to my suggestion then I apologise. However I do believe that a man is entitled to honor his fallen loved ones as well as give to a foundation which allows others of a common faith to do the same. Thanks for listening and let us keep this forum as a place to talk about experiences and not as a place to smash eachother.
Shalom
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I agree completely with what you are saying Jordan and PinkRoom. Jordan is saying that it is in bad taste to disenchant one of the few things people of Jewish descent can have to remember where they came from by. It is their right to show homage to their past loved ones, and that the Holocaust sort of does just this.
Jordan is also saying that not only is he a typical kike complete with a bent nose to hear Yentl daily, but that he also has some really red blood that gets stopped up in his neck and makes him Fish a whole bunch more than normal - all passed down to him through one of his many step dads. I got it.
First, you stupid Worthless piece of shit pussy; you say that you are with Any cause because it is in bad taste. Next you say survivors of Hitler Sembler should move on and that you are with us but don't forget to move on because of the cock taste in your mouth is bad or some shit. You write that I should read between the lines basically stating that Melvin and his family have ANY rights.
All who were involved in the creation of Straight Incorporated are at Risk now of being held accountable, even these peoples children, and their childrens children. To many the name Sembler now is synonymous with NO rights and if given the oppurtunity Sembler would be ended Legally and without delay, no trial for a championed child molesting group of organized criminals. The inbetween parts that you are not reading is that it doesn't matter that your family is a bunch of fucking stinkin losers and idiots just like you always feared and only now you can't protect your sick secrets. What matters is that they totally need a good ole' fashion redneck ass whoopin from you cos you hate them, too. What I saw inbetween those lines might not be to kick your typical Jewish familie's asses, but at least you would feel better knowing that you and your kind finally did something pro active for once instead of laying down to die. Although, I don't really relish that you are capable of agression. Your hethen brethren and sistren are like so many bags of wasted, worthless trashbags full of trash; you can just keep beating them and beatin em and knocking holes in 'em and kickin em and rapin 'em and shootin em and throwin em and filling them full of garbage and they won't do a goddamn thing about it. Will they.
You were trying to be nice you filthy schmuck and get your point across deaf ears. You came back later to speak it without riddles by saying that you think the whole thing is wrong and move on.
Now take your own inbetween advice you lazy heeb and get up NOW. You have one fucking life, and none more. Understand, I will never want Melvin and his croonies or organizations to represent any function of human interests, nor is he to be allowed any more freedom than he would still allow anyone today. To say he is atoned is not enough, I want justice. The reason why your dumb fucking race of typical Jews got their fucking asses run down into the showers is cos you refused to fight or to even walk or do More of anything because of pride. And so In this world forgiveness is not enough, we live in Reality and a world that Requires Law which comes Before Family, Religion, Culture or Anything.
I think you could Really do something Jordan or that perhaps you Know of someone you could be talking with Today that might really help to solve this situation for the good of all motherfucking parties. If you are of true Jewish descension, to really do something about Sembler's false representation - all while your dumb ass keeps coming back and again and you keep saying that you are going away forever cos you are a pussy bitch, just makes you look completely silly. Maybe you are not even a Jew and just copy the language, maybe you like Jesus and go to redneck church on Sundays you oily rat bastard pig, bald skinhead fuck. Oi!! Otherwise, JUst Get Up you punk ass nigger fuck slut, stand up for your rights if you are a man. If not, keep hiding in locked closets. I got a fucking tattoo gun for your arm right here, cunt. And in the meantime, I got my cock in your face.
How does that taste? Any better? You want some more or are you gonna get up and go tell someone the REAL truth for once ?
I SINCERELY apologize if I have upset anything or anyone. This message was intended to upset Jordan so that he would see that survivors ultimately respect the Holocaust museum, as a SECOND issue. The issue First hand is, I believe, would be to get Lowenstein, Sembler and the rest off the director's board and stat because of the misrepresented horrors caused by them.
Survivor 85 - 88
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Excuse me but I am not sure who you were directing that extreme message to. I was simply stating that while I agreed with Mr. Jordans opinion about the choice of protest venues, I felt his behavior to be a little to harsh at the others here. I also expressed my feeling to Ms. KD and the others not to name call because of their emotion. It just leads to further arguments which will destroy the entire reason we come here in the first place. I think it is most important to discuss these matters as adults.
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I have never liked the comparason to what happened in Nazi Germany to straight. I have always believed it was closer to the experience of US POW's in Vietnam and Wes's comparason to the events in China under Mao. I agree that Melvin Sembler deserves as much respite as HIS treatment centers allowed the clients. In there I was forced to abandon church, eat pork and other unclean foods, amongst the many other physical and psychological tortures. I think Mel and Co. have gotten off extremely lightly for what they have done. I believe any stress we can add to this "poor" man's life is more than justified. I believe his ancestor's who may have died in the Holocaust are ashamed and could care less if he grieves over them. In fact, I imagine they wish he'd just shut-up.
Now, all that being said, I saw the pictures of the protest in front of the Holocaust museum and thought, "Oh, Geez!" I am not sure this was the best place to do this. I think it should be a place free from politics and a place of quiet reflection. I also know that Mel presents not many opportunities in the US. Therefore, I am torn as to what would be a better place to increase public awareness of his pesonal sponsorship of wrong doing.
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I was the ANON that stated on page 2 that I disagreed with the protest because of the Holocaust connection. Then I thought about it further. If you really want to make a stink and get some attention, which is the goal of every protest, then try and be obnoxious, offensive, and is inconsiderate as possible.
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Dude! Are you aware that with the protest they released a written statement saying who they were protesting and that they were not in anyway way protesting the Holocaust and what the museum stood for. Just the board members and the duality of there actions.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin
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I am extremely offended by your last post.....althought you stated that you did not mean to upset anyone except Jordan WELL YOU FAILED!!!! :flame:
As a Jew and Straight Survivor I find you ANTISEMETIC comments completely unnecessary! Yes I support the Protest and think the Semblers should be behind bars and like I said before they are a disgrace to the Jewish community....
However, your "Jews got fucking asses run down into the Showers....lazy heeb & typical Jew" lip service is appalling. Take your Jew hating bashing elsewhere because many Survivors like myself are JEWS!!!!
Like I said before the Semblers DO NOT represent the Jews....Like OJ does not represent BLACKS!!!!
Nicole Esther
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Good. I am glad you are offended by my particular brand of prejudice. You can get with any specific blanketed prejudicial words you want to, and so can anyone else; Antisemite, black hater, woman hater, child abuser, animal abuser or whatever you choose.
But the real question is; what the fuck are YOU gonna DO about it ?!?
Or are your total amount of solutions equal to simply coming to these forums, bitching about your stank fantasies, and then make believing that you are some activist working nine to five who writes words that noone else has heard before ?
Whatever. I slap your face you stupid semite. I shiva on your head. I fuck all over your Bahmitzva. These are the words that Melvin Sembler is thinking EVERY TIME he goes to his office at the Holocaust Museum.
If Melvin Sembler does not represent the Jewish Holocaust Museum (He is on the board of directors, afterall) then what have YOU done to remove him??? NOTHING!
I am Melvin Sembler and I curse your Jewishness and your rights and culture and ancestry !!!
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GO TO HELL with your antisemetic sterotypes...
Let me remind you THAT I SHUT DOWN THE CALIFORNIA STRAIGHT!!!!! Along with a Jewish social worker.....I did and am still doing PLENTY....If I would have known about the protest THIS JEW WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE.....
Every day I do plenty with my work as a psychologist and treating my patients/adolescents with dignity and ethical treatment....UNLIKE the way I was treated at STRAIGHT INC...
Like I said before take your JEW bashing ELSEWHERE!!!
Shalom
Nicole Esther
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I know we're all pissed off, but let's keep the focus on the bad guy, Sembler and crew! There are good and bad people in all major religious groups. No blanket statements are constructive. We have all been abused, so let's keep the focal point on the perpetrators OK.
Peace All,
VSP
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Amen Anonymous!!!!
Nicole Esther :tup:
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Nicole - I appreciate all that you do and have done for the cause. Animalsallofus, I also appreciate all that you have done. Let's not slam each other; it is mel, betty, walter and bruce. those are the people to slam; they are the ones who have assisted in the crimes against children.
Kpickle39
[ This Message was edited by: kpickle39 on 2004-01-23 04:47 ]
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I think the real issue is doing something about Mel's, bety's and lobenberg's freedom. They try to prance around st. petersburg like people respect them. They haven't done anything to benefit anyone. They are just active in the political eye. They are just taking advantage of leadership and sponsorship. I say smack 'em
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Folks, I hope you'll understand that I've been very busy and I don't have time to read this whole thread. Sure wish I could. I just read the first post and that's what I'm responding to.
The protest was not againt the Holocaust Museum, but against the founders and board members of Straight hiding behind their religion and fooling a lot of good people.
Over the last few years since we discovered the Mel, Walter and Jerry were affiliated with the Holocaust Museum, several different people that I know of have contacted the Museum office either in person or in writing to let them know about these men's history. Apparently, the people who operate the foundation and museum either don't believe us or they don't care.
This is not to say that the people who support the foundation and it's cause and philosophy are similarly jaded. In fact, it's my understanding that these people were the intended audience, not the target. Please understand that, if nothing else. The target of the protest were people who have been closely affiliated with Straight, Inc. over the years.
It is my belief that the authentic pillars of the Jewish comunity would never, in a million years, want themselves or their organizations affiliated with these Nazis if only they knew the truth about them. And it is my understanding that these sincere and good people got the message our friends were trying to send.
If you really care that much about the Holocaust Museum and if you feel a sense of solidarity with the foundation, then I would certainly not want either one affiliated with Mel Sembler if I were you.
Homeschool is self regulating. The school board is not going to have illiterate useless people living in their homes forever if they don't have a working education policy.
--Sisterbluerose
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Hi Nichol,
I just wanted to write that I feel really rotten about what that person said about Jews. I mean, my God, people are just people, I don't see why everything has to be labeled and stereotyped, why in the hell can't people just stop and think that they are hurting people when they spew poisonous shit like that out of their mouths. I want to let you know that I think that this board is all the better for having you on board so please don't get discouraged by the actions of one.
I am non-Jewish, (not that I ever bring it up in conversation) but I think it is important to remind folks that there are people from 3 major faiths that profited handsomely off of Straight. Shall I begin with Miller Newton, of WASP background like myself (whom I am ashamed of) and I can't imagine what God is thinking about him. Not only has he had to pay out millions to merely 2 of his victims, but he is known now as "Father Cassian" or revered, or whatever, his faith seems to have been derived out of both the Protestant and Catholic faiths. But that's kind of irrelevant thought huh? Especially when one is torturing young people and making money at it.
My point is that I think we all could really seize this opportunity and learn from one another as people and go after those that need to answer for what they did to discourage future would-be abusers and just leave it at that.
Thanks....Ken :smile:
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On 2004-01-21 17:01:00, Sheik Yerbouti wrote:
"i just got contracted to do a 500$ compositing project, so ill make this brief (no longer will i sit and wait to respond to these replies) to the person talking about the south, u are not hearing me, i said i hate rednecks, are u a redneck if so, be proud, cause i need someone to make fun of. a redneck is a social stereo type for ignorant gun rack in the back of the truck, nascar lovin, mullet wearing, miller light drinkin fool, thats all if u fit into tthat category, im sorry i dont hate u i just think u are entertaining... i think i made my point, I AM WITH YOUR CAUSE, duh didnt any of u read that part, i just dont approve of the method u used to go about reaching that cause, just the one protest thats all, if u have no-one here to point out the questionables, then ur quest would surely fail.. part of succes is being ur own devils' advocate, smarten up and read between the lines...otherwise see u in a few days after i have made my loot!!!!
"
what a pricelessly ignorant post!!! Mullets and NASCAR, and gun racks, OH MY!!! :nworthy: this gets the 'stupidest post of the year' award! (so far, anyway)
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Thanks Ken for your kind words.....I realize that not everyone on the board is Antisemetic & most people on the forum are able to see things objectively! (Only a few intolerants)....I stongly believe the Semblers need to brought to Justice....Just like the Catholic Priest that molested boys need to be in the slammer........However, I realize molesting Priest DO NOT REPRESENT THE CATHOLIC COMMUNITY!!!!
Peace
Nicole Esther :smile:
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No no, I completely agree with you that my bashing is uncalled for. It is not right. Nicole, I know you are the real deal.
Back to the originally stated reason I did that - I am completely incensed at a couple of people that my bashing was intended to get their attention to look themselves at what they were posting. And, just like you say that Sembler does not represent the Jewish Community, why should my bashing represent you Nicole in any way when I clearly stated that it was directed at someone besides you. Although I am not glad that you are offended, I do hope I offended some others.
Actually, the fact that I stated I was intending to fuck certain people and you being offended after the fact brings up an interesting point. If Melvin Sembler does not represent ANYTHING, why are so many people offended at him ?
My bashing, as I said several times in one way or another clearly, was intended to be in just as bad taste as Jordan saying that an earnest protest against an evil horde is 'in bad taste'.
And then in a POST or two ago, PINKROOM writes that he agrees with Jordan's bad taste. He writes:
>I completely agree with Sheik (Jordan).
Then he writes:
>That man deserves to have his time to say
>Kaddish for his loss no matter what he did or
>does.
>Tzeth'a Leshalom VeShuvh'a Leshalom.
So, although my bashing MIGHT represent false prejudice against your religion or culture that I really have no freeking clue about, I am not the one who thinks that NOT being a representative of any larger picture or community is NOT what's being perpetrated here.
Hey, I already said a few times that I am whack ASS. Just look at the situation being presented in. I believe strongly that MORE people are going to get hurt and things will get worse before they finally get better and Melvin can do all his worshipping while 'men are calling him Shirley and they're fucking him in his kulo' (25th hour).
Sembler is not Jewish. He was born in Missouri. He is American. Nevermind any resemblances to the War on Drugs the president himself declared that the Holocaust might have. Even if he was Jewish or could properly represent he was Jewish - he must still be allowed to PAY for his criminal life and pay for them BEFORE he is allowed pay any homage to his false ancestors.
I am Melvin Sembler and I kill all jews and children!!!
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So what you are saying is, I am a filthy piece of shit jew or kike or whatever because I happen to believe that there is a time and a place to cease fire. That is quite interesting. It has nothing to do with waht this man did or is doing. I believe that the location was not the most appropriate place to hold this sort of activity. How does that give you the right to attack me so harshly with gross and pugilistic behavior. I do not believe any man represents my faith or heritage including myself. What I do believe is that we must have the right to speak out when we feel it just to do so. I have an opposite view to most on this nature but I do not believe anyone here will condone your behavior.
Tzeth'a Leshalom VeShuvh'a Leshalom
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No Pinkroom,
Remember that Jewish Law reminds us to question all authority & question the status quo.....You can challenge & question any protest.....I admire your hutpa and if your a kike/heep I'm right there with you.....although I might disagree with you your free and obligated to voice your arguements.......
Shalom
Nicoleesther
Shabot Shalom
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You can have the last word Pinky. I already told you I was talking trash about Jordan and it was nonsense. I didn't intend for Nicole to get upset but it did.
If you and I for some fucked up reason were hanging out I would talk shit to you there too if you were fucking shit up. I would talk all kinds of smack ass trash if it meant you were going to get the point. But you still don't even though it is laid in front of you. Next you'll be saying meditated murder is okay?
Believe my hate mongering (if it were real) is nowhere even remotely, nor even Minutely, close to Melvin Sembler's and the other directors hatred for humanity. I don't give a fuck what religion or culture that lame ass German hides behind.
Anyway, go ahead and have the last word. You'll be wrong and in this forum right here you have been disagreed with, whether with slap agression or with kinder words, that what you think or feel about violent facades just does not hold sway in the real world even if you could have your opinion which does not make any sense factually. You are SO conscious to Recognize that, hey, I don't respect that opinion whether or not you are entitled to it. I am offended by it but you didn't pay any fucking heed to anybody when they said they were offended by it to begin with. So, again, fuck you and yours, too. No. I am not going to respect your shitty fucking opinion with an open mind unless you FIRST show some. What next? You'll be saying that you are related to Hitler or Sembler?
Thank you for stating many times things that I particularly wrote over and over and over, and now Over again. I honestly, honestly can't tell if you just need a reading level refresher course (many colleges offer these I am sure) or if you seriously, seriously just need glasses. You are SO conscious. Now go ahead, take the last, although redundant, word. ITs all you now.
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And I still that think that whoever said 'Typical Jew' is funny. Afterall, I am entitled to express my opinion, right?
Idiot.
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Unbelieveable...Here WE GO AGAIN!!!! ::smokingun::
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I know what you mean, NE. It gets fuckin' old. You come on here, and you get sucked in...It gets to be time consuming sometimes..
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I had nothing to do with the planning or organization of the recent protest of the Holocaust Museum function. I did, however, cover it on my web page in almost real-time. I have just published an editorial which hopefully will shed further light on why the protesters felt justified in what they did--at least from my point of view. I have sent a copy of my report to the St. Petersburg Times which decided to cover the awards banquet but ignore the disturbance outside. Here is my editorial:
http://thestraights.com/articles/holoca ... verage.htm (http://thestraights.com/articles/holocaustprotestnewscoverage.htm)
Wes Fager
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:evil: People ya know your all missing a very good point. I am not a survivor,but was with my friends, from all the organizations. It pleased my heart to know we could be in on place and have everyone talking , no one angry or bitter, like i see here, kudos Mike. You and a few others are the only ones trying to make a difference. I could be indian, black, doesn;t matter the whole thing was to protest a child abuser and rapist and etc...No matter where he is
and if someone wants him on their board of directors GO RIGHT AHEAD!!!!!!!
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I was at the protest, too. I am a Straight survivor.
I think it's good that so many people are interested in this cause.
It is a fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
I just feel that to blindly come onto a forum of Survivors and say that what we did for justice is in bad taste would be the same as going into card game full of feminist policewomen who have survived years of torment, rape and other shit and then telling them that their cause/gathering is in bad taste.
I just don't see the tact in that, even if everyone has free speech.
Someone went on to make a very small yet accurate point, they were probably smarter than me to let it go. They called Jordan a typical Jew.
It is wrong on a couple of different levels to write that, sure. Just as wrong as coming to a forum for survivors and saying that Melvin has any rights. Yes, rights are rights, but everyone knows the color of the kettle by this time.
So again, fuck your bad taste Jordan. I'll stop slandering when the slandering stops.
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ha ha
I always win, most of the time...
sometimes.
can I just win this time plz? I just want someone to say, hey,
man,
its gonna be okay. :evil:
ha ha