Fornits

Announcements & Tech Support => Web forum hosting => Topic started by: Antigen on December 31, 2003, 03:21:00 PM

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on December 31, 2003, 03:21:00 PM
Ok, this seems to be the point where the shit hits the fan. My hosting provider has received 4 letters by courier, one of them from Spring Creek Lodge, the other three varying between requesting the removal of some postings and demanding that they discontinue hosting my websites.

Then, earlier today, I get a phone call from David Pollack, who represents Sue Scheff, asking for my home address to overnight documents related to a requested emergency injunction. I don't know exactly what they're demanding, but it has to do w/ Sue's displeasure with anyone mentioning her name and organization. He says as suite has already been filed and I might think about getting a lawyer.

At the same time, both Ken and Nazi have hinted (or stated outright) that they intend to sue me or have me arrested or investigated by DCYS or whatever.

I don't know anything more than this at this time, except that none of the parties involved in this brawl seem to want anyone talking about it outside of their control. And they seem quite determined.

So, if anyone's so inclined to pool resources to defend me or this forum against any (SLAPP?) suites or to go off into the wilds of Cyberia and continue the conversation elsewhere, now's the time.

The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people equally in war and peace. And covers with the shield of it's protection all classes of men at all times and under all circumstances.
--US Supreme Court, Ex Parte Milligan



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
   10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous

[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2003-12-31 12:26 ]
Title: Important Notice
Post by: E7haterJe on December 31, 2003, 03:30:00 PM
Who is Sue? DOes anything of this have to do with any of my postings? Tell me if I can help? I will.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on December 31, 2003, 04:31:00 PM
No, none of this has anything to do with your posts. Sue is Sue Scheff, founder and president of PURE http://helpyourteens.com/ (http://helpyourteens.com/)

WWASP (World Wide Association of Specialty Programs) has sued Sue, PURE and a bunch of other people. Now Sue is suing me, WWASP is sending letters of demand to my service provider and Nazi's apparently come out of the closet wrt his support for Ken.

Clear as mud? I thought so.  :em:

I'm not kidding when I say that this site might well get shut down one way or another. So please make sure and get all the contact info and anything else you may want to keep.

Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Carey on December 31, 2003, 04:40:00 PM
Ginger, do you have a way of backing up all of the data along with the IP addresses?  If you do, please do so.  If you don't please let me know. I really don't want what is on this site lost.  I may need it since I too am being threatened with a law suit.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: turbinekat on December 31, 2003, 04:54:00 PM
Judge Warbis,

It appears that fornits maybe in some kind of trouble, from your recent reply for assistance.  I'd love to help you; but then I'd be accused of supporting fornits, Ginger & Carey!!!  Not in this life time.  Remember the ass chewing I received for supporting the last site I saved???  Sorry to see you go, I've enjoyed the entertainment over the last year.

Maybe now you have some idea of how INVOLVED you really are?  If memory serves me...it was you who continued to harp on me letting go of a shovel a few months back.  I guess you can look for a tool of your choosing now.  Oh & BTW now you may have noticed that your psychology experiment, you so boldly bragged about; has bitten the hand that feeds it.

Regards,

Lee
P.U.R.E. Volunteer
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2003, 05:25:00 PM
For different reasons (or perhaps some of the same) I have to share Lee's sentiment, that Ginger and her site are getting the reward which they both so richly deserve.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on December 31, 2003, 05:52:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-12-31 13:40:00, Carey wrote:

"Ginger, do you have a way of backing up all of the data along with the IP addresses?  If you do, please do so.  If you don't please let me know. I really don't want what is on this site lost.  I may need it since I too am being threatened with a law suit."


Done did it already. It's about a 13M zipped archive.

I believe that human beings arrive on this Earth wanting to know absolutely everything, and the best thing we can do as parents is to get out of the way -- just be there to let them know what opportunities are there
-- Dorothy Werner, media liaison for the National Homeschool Association

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on December 31, 2003, 06:05:00 PM
Lee, you are such an unmitigated asshole. This, of course, is my opinion.

Further, in my opinion, you don't give a flying fuck about anyone or anything except for perpetuating your delusions of martyrdome.

This is a SLAPP suit, plain and simple. If Sue or anyone else had a legitimate claim to require me to censor any information, she could have asked. She knows that. Last time I got wind of a rumor that she wanted to sue me, I called her out on it, we discussed the matter, identified the offensive information and I edited it out. I'm actually not a damned fool, ya' know?

But, aparently, Sue is not all worked up about anything that I would actually be legally liable to remove from my servers. She just thinks I can't properly defend myself in a court of law, so it doesn't matter whether or not her complaint is legitimate or not. She's got legal insurance.

It remains to be seen whether or not anyone has sufficient interest in backing me legally or financially in this. Fact is, the data exists and is already distributed through browser and search engine caches all over the planet. You've probably got a good sized chunk of it on your hard drive right now. So does anyone else who visits this forum, unless they go out of their way to remove it. Not ONLY that, but anyone w/ a net connection can just mirror this whole site using readily available free software intended for that purpose.

This is not about any real injury or wrong done to Sue. It's PUREly about intimidation and bullying, just like damned near everything else you've ever posted, anon or not, to these forums. You're only fooling yourself and your inner circle if you think otherwise.

This, of course, is my opinion.

Oh, BTW, how far do you suppose you can push some ppl before they decide it's worth the trouble to slap you back for all the slanderous statements you've made about them?
 

We swore never to be silent whenever human beings
endure suffering and humiliation. We must always
take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never
the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never
the tormented.

--Elie Weisel

Title: Important Notice
Post by: ClayL on December 31, 2003, 06:39:00 PM
Try going to the ACLU as this seems to be something right up their alley. Also check with EFF and, God what's that other group.... Hell I can't think of it. Make sure to request a change of venue to Vermont, where this silliness is less tollereated and motions to dismiss as these people are public figures involved in a very public court battle. It would be like OJ suing everyone who posts that he is guilty of murder despite what those Bozo's on that jury thought. All comments made are the responsibility of the indivdual who made them not the compter they reside on.  It's like saying my car is responsible for an accident. Also state that it would create an undue hardship for you to have to travel to defend yourself from this BS. I can find you some case-law on this.

 Further, request reimbursement of your expenses and my advice costs $100,000.00 per consultation and this is twice that I have consulted you on this kind of matter. Also, keep track of the IP as one cannot stir the fire and then sue if they don't like the way it burns.

Just a few of my thoughts,
That will be $100,000.00 please
Clay
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2003, 06:44:00 PM
There is only so long that you can slander and defame people with no evidence other than yoyur guesses before someone turns around and fights back. What you should do is stop inciting people and feeding them misguided lies about what freedom of speech means. It never has meant that you can say whatever you want about anyone you want whenever you want.
I'm sure this is just the first in a line of people who defend themselves against you.
I can't wait to see who deals with your insane rantings and incitations next.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Deborah on December 31, 2003, 06:51:00 PM
Or perhaps it's time to make a request to Soros?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: turbinekat on December 31, 2003, 06:58:00 PM
Judge Warbis,

Oh, weary one of the key boards & master of the English language...excuse me it appears that I may have struck a nerve?

Your honor, you are absolutely incorrect...I am the perfect asshole according to my last rectal exam via my local physician.

Now, you want to resort to tongue lashing me?  My...My...aren't we the righteous one to carry a torch for child abuse or even Straights for that matter.  Again...if my memory serves me correctly...didn't you miss YOUR opportunity to save the children?

I don't know anything about a SLAPP suit or why you are accusing me of this grateful feat!  But, I do love it when the shoe is on YOUR foot.  Just maybe, you should thank Carey for exposing HER truths...she's a figment of her own imagination, along with you & your ever so humbling self.  Please tell me again...which one of you is fighting for child abuse...I forgot?

Couldn't happen to a better pair of ladies if you ask me!!!   BTW; I don't bully or intimidate...I state my opinion & move on...however, I do sometimes repeat my self from time to time as turbinekat or anon right along with the rest of yawl.  Please have a happy New Year this evening!!!  Remember not to drink & drive.

Oh & dear, please remember, that this is only my honest opinion via the internet?on your own forum.

Regards,

Lee
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2003, 07:29:00 PM
Now, just so we understand. What does ken have to do with any of this?


"WWASP is sending letters of demand to my service provider and Nazi's apparently come out of the closet wrt his support for Ken.

Clear as mud? I thought so."
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on December 31, 2003, 08:23:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-12-31 16:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Now, just so we understand. What does ken have to do with any of this?


Nothing that I know of. Just a sideshow, I think. This anon flooder who I just banned yesterday made two really interesting posts in among the other baiting. In one, she said, in response to a comment about Nazi being gone "Are you sure I'm gone?" and, in another, he went on for a couple of sentences about how mighty and clever Ken is, how he's "got this site's number" and how Ken is going to eat me alive.

Now, of course, this troll might very well be making all of this up. But if she says she's Nazi and she's cheering Ken on in his endevour to "eat me alive", then who am I to doubt?


The only thing I know for sure is that a lot of people seem to have a terrible problem tolerating communications outside of their control. If they're determined and well funded enough, they can probably shut down this forum. It's not asif some of these jokers haven't made a lot of other forums and web-bages dissapear already. This happens all the time.

The only question is whether or not they can possibly keep up this level of dedicated energy against the growing number of critics who are learning to use the net every day.

"Teach a man to fish and he eats for a day. Teach him to use the net and he won't bother you for weeks!"--Anon

Drug War tells us everyone's body is common property
to be managed by the central government for our own
good, even if it kills us.  This is Communism!
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)

[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2003-12-31 17:25 ]
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2003, 08:51:00 PM
But this just isn't clear to me. If you believe ken had nothing to do with it why do you keep making statements like "At the same time, both Ken and Nazi have hinted (or stated outright) that they intend to sue me or have me arrested or investigated by DCYS or whatever. " and "This anon flooder who I just banned yesterday made two really interesting posts in among the other baiting. In one, she said, in response to a comment about Nazi being gone "Are you sure I'm gone?" and, in another, he went on for a couple of sentences about how mighty and clever Ken is, how he's "got this site's number" and how Ken is going to eat me alive.

Now, of course, this troll might very well be making all of this up. But if she says she's Nazi and she's cheering Ken on in his endevour to "eat me alive", then who am I to doubt?" ?

I just don't understand why you keep bringing him up if you don't think he had anything to do with it.

Do you think ken had anything to do with it? If you do why don't you just say so? If you don't why do you bring him up every chance you get?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on January 01, 2004, 02:21:00 AM
No, actually it was the anon flooder who claimed to be Nazi who brought up Ken's intention to take down these fora.

It's fairly clear, isn't it? that Ken doesn't like these fora, doesn't want people posting here and would like for them to just go away. That goes back years. Maybe it's just a big swingin' dick contest to him. I don't know. Maybe it's this Nazi guy just making shit up about he or Ken taking them down. I don't know.

But it's just one more reason, in addition to WWASP harassing my provider and PURE filing suit, for ppl who may be depending on these fora to stay in touch with each other to make other arrangements. I'll tell you, if there's a reasonably promising way for me to keep this thing going, I'll do it. But I'm not at all sure that I can. One thing I will NOT do is let the whole thing just blink out of existance without explanation.


The most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of
knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness.

--Thomas Jefferson

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on January 01, 2004, 02:36:00 AM
Quote
On 2003-12-31 15:07:00, artman11111 wrote:

"Ginger
Ken is prolly thinkin $$$$$,and god knows what this Nazi character is thinking.

Oh man! He'd be barking up the wrong tree there! Remember that I was given an ultimatum when I was 18, stay in the cult or leave the family. I chose option B. All I've ever had is what I can earn, and we generally spend that on raising kids.

Quote

I believe you provide an essential service to keeping the teen help industry on their toes.They wouldnt be suing you if their side of the street were clean,its the dirt that has them upset !

No, you couldn't be more wrong here. It's my understanding that the woman who has filed suit against me has done this many, many times before. And I know for a fact that WWASP, just like Straight before them, make a habit of it. I know you think Nazi's antisemetic mad ramblings were the most shocking and outrageous thing ever to spew forth from a public forum. But nobody sued over that. If the quotes I've read so far from the complaint are accurate, it's largely bullshit. Sue allegedly takes issue with mine and Carey's comments about her disabled son. What a horrible thing to pick on someone's disabled son, right? Trouble is that, until I read that today, I didn't even know she had a son, able or not.

I'll have to read the complaint when I get it. There may well be some content that I would be legally obliged to delete. I'll certainly consider the possability w/ an open mind.

But, in all honestly, Sue is suing me to scare people out of telling the truth about her. It's a SLAPP suit. You probably don't know this, but this Lee character is the same one who joined in the vicious attacks on Carey, w/ topics like "Carey is a whore". These people are a wellspring of insanity, in my opinion, of course.

Quote

Feel free to email me privately as you will prolly need to be careful what you post.

Happy New Year

Art"


Hey, I state my opinion as opinion and facts as facts. It comes down to this. If I can pool the resources to mount a proper defense, I win. If I can't, I fold.

If it is believed that... elementary schools will be better managed by the governor and council, the commissioners of the literary fund or any other general authority of the government than by the parents within each ward, it is a belief against all experience.
Thomas Jefferson

Title: Important Notice
Post by: ramprato on January 01, 2004, 11:00:00 AM
Hi all,

I just want to say that I am not the "Ken" that this thread is talking about. Same name, WAY different person.

Take care all...... Ken.

 :smile:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2004, 04:46:00 PM
I dont care what anyone has to say..against this sight...this sight is 1 of the greatest things i have seen since i have typed anything in about elan. it has gotten me in contact with old roomies at elan...

i am a bigger person than i was...when i was in elan...i have grown, matured, and moved on from elans crazyiness..but it feels good to be able to talk with other elanies about elan, i will most deffinetly be writing a book, about elan and getting info from people from this sight who can tell me all there is to know about this straights program and anything else that can help my book.

I have already gone through each listing and printed and saved everything...all of cource will be anonymous stuff...but ideas to get me to flow...(unless the writer of the post signs a legal binding letting me write real names)

it will be the best book! i know it! I got the best lawyers and know about all legal papers to sign and get ready for this project. everyone in wrong doing will be exposed. the undoing of hate, and the creation of peace is far away...

but i will start a project that can only inform, and hold the hands of those who dont know to help them walk along.. with new knowledge or support for what they do not know of.

i wish i had support from my wealthy family, to fight back to help keep this sight up..but they wouldnt want to be a part of the saving of this sight..

but whether anyone believes it or not, this sight was in my opinion not intended to hurt or misinform..it was to take a strong arm with warmth, and wrap it around a shoulder that was cold.

I have seen that some users have posted several innapropriate and outright degrading comments...but look at AOL...the same shit happens there...it happens everywhere... We continue our flow of conversation..As this sight says"dont feed the trolls" no one supports the mean things said about others on this sight...maybe they let it out..and thats ok, but when they go on and on and on about it, then its like why? Then they become trolls...

even though this sight may shut down..it has paved a path for new ideas..and new beginnings for others..
 
a book, a movie, is another story. and WILL happen...no matter what.. u can beat me with stones, and poke at me with fire, but i will lick my wounds and continue until i cant move and speak no more.

I think this site is great. No specifics..here..but many people...i have seen on this sight, have STRONG words, STRONG emotions, STRONG feelings..of expression about whatever...

 :em: why cant they express? In this free world we call? I guess foreign countries are right when they describe America and what it says we are, but how we set limitations...Not such a free world eh?
-Jenny
Title: Important Notice
Post by: E7haterJe on January 01, 2004, 04:52:00 PM
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2004, 06:11:00 PM
No Ginger, it really isn't fairly clear, not at all, not to me. You've said that you think ken had nothing to do with it but then, usually in the same post, you say something filled with innuendo that leads us to believe that you at least think he did.

You're really confusing me and from what I have read you are also confusing many other people. Please Please Please settle it.

What I'd like is a direct answer. Maybe one word. Do you think Ken had anything at all to do with your current legal problems? Yes or No?





Ginger said:
"No, actually it was the anon flooder who claimed to be Nazi who brought up Ken's intention to take down these fora.

It's fairly clear, isn't it? that Ken doesn't like these fora, doesn't want people posting here and would like for them to just go away. That goes back years. Maybe it's just a big swingin' dick contest to him. I don't know. Maybe it's this Nazi guy just making shit up about he or Ken taking them down. I don't know. "
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2004, 06:43:00 PM
WWASP is afraid of the truth getting out there so they threaten to sue,sounds like corruption to me. If we had just stuck with trying to help the kid's, perhaps this wouldn't be happening.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2004, 08:11:00 PM
Ginger,

Take a deep breath and realize the truth in on your side.  Many are watching, but the bottom line is, this site is important.  Let people file suit as they will.  This is an opportunity can?t you see it?    This will workout in the end.  Even if you have to represent yourself, you can. You have the ability.  Your smart and all of us believe in you.  If people can help with money please do.  BUT DON?T EVER FORGET THIS SITE HAS HELPED MANY!

Keep your chin up Ginger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AMERICA WANT?S TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT ABUSE!

EXPOSE THE CHILD ABUSERS?????

LET THE TESTAMONY ON YOUR SITE SPEAK FOR ITSELF!

 :tup:  :tup:  :tup:  :tup:  :tup:  :tup:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2004, 08:11:00 PM
Which Ken are talking about?  I see mention of a Ken on the Elan forum.  Ken WHO?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on January 01, 2004, 08:23:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-01-01 15:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

What I'd like is a direct answer. Maybe one word. Do you think Ken had anything at all to do with your current legal problems? Yes or No?



Absolutely not, just as I've said several times already. The lawsuit comes from Sue Scheff and PURE. The letters to my provider are coming from WWASP. WWASP is suing PURE. They are not friends. But neither side wants anyone discussing them outside of their control.

I do wonder if there's something to the notion that he may sue at some point. Back when I used to post to his forum, years ago, he made it very clear that I was not welcome there. I was primarily asking questions about Concept by way of comparisons to Program. He did not like that, not one little bit!

Over the years, I keep hearing from various people that Ken tries pretty hard to discourage ppl from posting to these fora.

More recently, I get a rumor from Nazi that Ken's trying to set me up somehow. Then Ken writes to me privately saying that Nazi's trying to set me up. Then this person posts anon saying that Ken's got what he needs, i.e. "this site's number". And, in another post, this same person (or someone in the same room) cops to being Nazi.

What would you make of all that? Know what really seemed to get his goat? Dee's posting details about events that she witnessed at Elan when Ken was on staff. For months prior, ppl were posting just sheer bullshit, juvenile rants and pranks, some about Ken. He didn't seem to notice. Really, some ppl were offended, but most just wrote it off as sick, childish humor. Never a peep out of Ken, that I know of, nor Marty or Claire or anyone else. Then, all of a sudden, two old friends meet up who can coroborate each other's stories and, suddenly, Ken's very, very interested.

Was he Anon #42 (all but the most recent 10 of posts by Expediter-Trainee)? I honestly can't say for sure. Why don't you ask him?



We can easily forgive a child who is afraid
of the dark. The real tragedy of life is
when men are afraid of the light.
--Plato

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Therion on January 01, 2004, 08:40:00 PM
Well guess what? You will never shut anyone up.
Even if you did get this board shut down...which you cant...I personally will start another.
 Besides the fact that this board is very neccesary for some of us....I will do it just to spite your brainwashed ass.
  :wave:  :wave:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on January 01, 2004, 08:42:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-01-01 17:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

LET THE TESTAMONY ON YOUR SITE SPEAK FOR ITSELF!



Thank you! I will certainly try to do that.

All penalties for drug users should be dropped...Making drug abuse a crime is useless and even dangerous...Every year we seize more and more drugs but the quantity available still increases...Police are losing the drug battle worldwide.


--Raymond Kendall ~ Secretary General of Interpol 1994

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2004, 09:06:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-01-01 15:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"WWASP is afraid of the truth getting out there so they threaten to sue,sounds like corruption to me. If we had just stuck with trying to help the kid's, perhaps this wouldn't be happening. "


The teen-help-industry at large, is corrupt. Hence the need for people to be aware of the big picture, not fall victim to a temptress in a teapot.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2004, 10:27:00 PM
Now I'm even more confused. Maybe I didn't read those or wasn't here then.  What did anyone say about ken that was coroborated by anyone else? From what I read ken and dee were old friends.

What I thought she I read her say was he was that he was her director and that it was a relief being transfered to his house and that he was never abusive to anyone. That's how I remember those posts. Did I misunderstand them?

If that wasn't what she said would you please show me it?


Ginger said:
"Dee's posting details about events that she witnessed at Elan when Ken was on staff. For months prior, ppl were posting just sheer bullshit, juvenile rants and pranks, some about Ken. He didn't seem to notice. Really, some ppl were offended, but most just wrote it off as sick, childish humor. Never a peep out of Ken, that I know of, nor Marty or Claire or anyone else. Then, all of a sudden, two old friends meet up who can coroborate each other's stories and, suddenly, Ken's very, very interested"
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2004, 03:39:00 PM
.....
Title: Important Notice
Post by: animals all of us on January 03, 2004, 03:51:00 AM
Actually, freedom of speech is just that.  I can call you a fucking weakling and that you are a rapist and that you molest babies without thought or remorse.  I can say that you and your mother enjoy passionate fucking and that the abortions you two create sure taste swell to you.  I can say ALL this without provocation from you, without need or incentive.  I can say all this without having to worry about it unless it is actually slanderous or harmful to your character or how you function societally, even if it is true.  You don't have the slightest inkling.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: animals all of us on January 03, 2004, 04:21:00 AM
Sorry All,
That last post was definitively intended for the anonymous postor back at the very top of page two.
I wish neglect and abuse upon all of the ones who don't believe that this site doesn't aid the many, and I wish many bedbugs on those who still believe that any cult works for the good of large society.
And for all of those who still believe kindly in the abusing of children; hey, lets meet up.  We can chat and other stuff.  I welcome the visit.  
I'f you'd like to fuck my bitch Melvin Sembler, just ask for an appointment.  He likes fucking people with a smile.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: smack on January 03, 2004, 04:39:00 AM
For all of those freakish zombie bitches that come up with some sort of remedy for people/teens/children that like to speak in free speech america and the humane world can kiss my junked up ass. these people need to be bitch slapped some sense because all these centers and programs sound like some johan cult shit. their own children should be removed from their homes and would fair better on their own in the wilderness. there is no "normal" society. there is no righteous correct. parents and these "members" of our community do not deserve rights if they are not able to give them, they do not know what is in the best interests of their or anyone's children. wolves.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: John Olsakovsky on January 03, 2004, 10:46:00 AM
What a bunch of bullshit.
You're suppsoed to cease & desist WHAT?  Operating a forum?

As a forum operator, you're libel for NOTHING that the contributers to teh forum (other than self) say in said forum.  So if someone mentioned one former client's name & the program they were with, it's not your fault.

Any legal action PURE (or whoever) is threatening is unfounded.  Don't worry about it and keep on keepin' on, girl!
Title: Important Notice
Post by: exsafecounselor on January 03, 2004, 11:32:00 AM
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.
         --- Anon
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2004, 06:37:00 PM
Exsafecounselor said in a post,

?As bad as I feel for everyone's individual family situation, I can not help but simply say that have got it all wrong?

It?s very amazing that a ?do-gooder? like you can?t even see the forest through the trees.  SAFE = ABUSE!!!

I have one question????.

Would it be legal to operate a program like SAFE in most countries of the world?

Answer: No, it?s illegal because children have rights.  It is not ok to abuse children in order to ?help them? regardless of what, you think, it?s abuse.  Wake up and smell the pain you created.

Jimmy Carter once said, ?Treatment should never be worse than the drug?

You are part of the problem not the solution, and as long as people like you can justify their abhorrent actions on children, things will remain the same.

Maybe we should start treating you like you treat kids.  Maybe we should abuse you, because obviously you need it.  You have problems.  Common let?s lock you up and treat you worse than an animal.  It?s for your own best good.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on January 03, 2004, 07:50:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-01-01 19:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

What I thought she I read her say was he was that he was her director and that it was a relief being transfered to his house and that he was never abusive to anyone. That's how I remember those posts. Did I misunderstand them?


I think the only thing you may be missing here is that Ken's possibly suffering from a persicution complex. No one that I know of has ever said publicly that they witnessed Ken being especially abusive while a student or on staff at Elan.

But Matt and Dee both witnessed the same events that took place while Ken (and a lot of other people) happened to be there. And, for some damned reason I can't explain, Ken seems to be very uncomfortable with ppl discussing the events they witnessed while they were together in Elan.

Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul alike.
-- John Muir

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2004, 10:53:00 PM
Exsafecounselor

Oh, sir master may I please take a piss.  Oh please sir Exsafecounselor !!!!  I got to go real bad?????

?NO BAD DEVIL CHILD!?  

You shall not urinate like normal people.  I shall control you because you deserve it????..

"YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DESERVE"?? Exsafecounselor

OPINIONS PLEASE............???  ::armed::
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2004, 01:15:00 AM
Ginger,
That does make sense and it is quite an interesting point you brought up.

Let me make sure I understand.

1. Nobody has ever said that ken abused anyone while he was a resident or on the staff at Elan.
He has however been accused of just that by people and webmistresses who have no first hand knowledge of just that on many many occasions.

2. ken has been subjected to nonstop innuendo and personal attacks on himself by people and webmistresses who have never met him, never spoken with him and have never heard a corroburated accusation against him of any kind, ever.

3. Many different people may at times see the same set of events differently. This could be especially likely after 25 or 30 years has passed since those events. Yet ken is subjected to innuendo, most recently in your latest post that there is something wrong with him because he may or may not agree or disagree with someone elses interpretation of 25 or 30 year old incidents.

Additionally, ken's opinion of these incidents hasn't even been expressed by him but rather has been inferred by people who are guessing what his opinion is.

Yes, you do make a very good point. Ken may just have a persecution complex of some sort. I'd imagine that when someone has been obviously been being persecuted (If you'll read the Elan forum you will find that it is quite obvious that this is the case) they may develop a "complex" about it.  

Yes, a very wise and astute point you have made indeed.

Ginger Said:
"I think the only thing you may be missing here is that Ken's possibly suffering from a persicution complex. No one that I know of has ever said publicly that they witnessed Ken being especially abusive while a student or on staff at Elan.

But Matt and Dee both witnessed the same events that took place while Ken (and a lot of other people) happened to be there. And, for some damned reason I can't explain, Ken seems to be very uncomfortable with ppl discussing the events they witnessed while they were together in Elan.  "
Title: Important Notice
Post by: SyN on January 04, 2004, 09:58:00 AM
anti call me.
SyN
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on January 04, 2004, 12:15:00 PM
The only thing I ever "accused" him of is possibly not liking it when people post certain kinds of content to these and other fora. And, even at that, I'm asking, not telling. I think, for a number of reasons, that that's the case. And you seem to confirm that it is. But, aside from the mere suspicion that the guy might actually try and something to shut down this fora, I don't really think of him at all.

Why do you keep bringing up his name?

You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence.

--Charles Austin Beard

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2004, 12:54:00 PM
Clarification?  I thought this thread was started because of "requests" by wwasp reps, and a legal issue with PURE.

Who is Ken? And what relationship does he have with either entity?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Carmel on January 04, 2004, 01:49:00 PM
What I find amusing is that people are fussing around on these boards as if all of this really was the definitive source for REALITY.  

Come on people, so what if someone is subjected to persecution and innuendo....big god damned frickin deal.  Its a fucking MESSAGE BOARD.  Not a public square.  I find it remarkable that people get on here and post as if life itself takes place nowhere else but on these forums.

So what if you dont like what someone says about you.  Ignore them, or rise above it...but this bullshit has to stop.

Ginger, no worries....this is all contrived garbage.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2004, 02:18:00 PM
I thought Ginger started this thread and then it carried over, hmmm?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2004, 02:30:00 PM
That isn't true. At all. You and others have accused him of many many things. Read your forum.
I guess someone needs to defend a guy who is under an unfair, unwarranted attack. According to you the only thing he has ever done is (maybe, and maybe not) have an opinion that differs from yours.
That's what I'm doing.

Ginger Said
" The only thing I ever "accused" him of is possibly not liking it when people post certain kinds of content to these and other fora. And, even at that, I'm asking, not telling. I think, for a number of reasons, that that's the case. And you seem to confirm that it is. But, aside from the mere suspicion that the guy might actually try and something to shut down this fora, I don't really think of him at all.

Why do you keep bringing up his name? "
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on January 04, 2004, 02:39:00 PM
Ok, to be perfectly fair, I didn't mention Calvina Fay because I havn't heard from Englander & Fischer since I answered them back in April, as documented here:
http://fornits.com/anonanon/#fay (http://fornits.com/anonanon/#fay)

I don't have any solid information to even suggest that DFAF and/or E&S has anything at all to do with any legal action, whether real or imagined, that may or may not be filed. However, I have good reason to believe that this is probably not their favorite site on the net. In fact, it's probably in the top couple of hundred of favorite sites to hate.

That's just about exactly as weak as my reason for mentioning Ken into the mix. If he tries to prevent people saying certain things on his forum, then doesn't it make sense that he might, given a good oportunity, to prevent those same people from saying the same things right next door?

Hell, Dean Vause, I hear, is less than pleased with some of the things that people say about AARC. He's got money to burn. Same with the ppl who run PFC, SAFE, Growing Together, KHK, etc., all in addition to ppl affiliated with WWASP, PURE and other participants in the troubled parent industry. I guess some of them have money too. It's not asif fora where ppl express criticizm of the industry have not been blinking out of existance left and right. If they'll buy intrepidnetreporter.com and replace the old content (now found at http://intrepidnetreporters.com/ (http://intrepidnetreporters.com/) ) with the following:

Quote
You have reached a page that has been deleted or a page that has never existed. Please visit our home page to find what you are looking for - Thank You! If you reached this page by bookmark - please update it once you visit our main page.

Click Here to visit our main page for info on defiant teens and specialty schools

Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.


Why then shouldn't I consider the possability that some of the other ppl who have expressed displeasure over some of the content here might actually follow through and try to make it go away? Especially when an opportunity like this falls in their lap?

I don't think PURE and WWASP are working together in cooperation (remember, WWASP letters to my service provider started coming in a day ahead of word of PURE v Carey and me) I think the timing is suspicious, though, and that they might have known about the threatened lawsuit and decided to take advantage of the situation in that way.

So, since my aim here is to provide a venue where everyone can speak freely, I thought it was important to let people know what's going on. This way, if I have to take the site down or if I have to censor it in some way, you all who may want to continue your conversations elsewhere have time to make arrangements to do so.

Here's one suggestion for some of the discussion that often goes on here:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&l ... .solutions (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&edition=us&group=alt.parenting.solutions)

It is criminal to steal a purse. It is daring to steal a fortune. It is a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases

--Schiller (1759-1805)

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2004, 03:21:00 PM
Ginger:
No, it really doesn't make sense at all. It is a very weak reason to persecute a guy who nobody has ever said has hurt anyone. I can't think of a weaker one. You're bringing him up constantly because you are guessing how he may feel or what he might do some day? Nobody has ever said he hurt anyone ever. In fact, a number of people including Dee have said he's a good guy who always treated people well. Something's not right here.

The reason I keep bringing him up is because you do.


Ginger Said "That's just about exactly as weak as my reason for mentioning Ken into the mix. If he tries to prevent people saying certain things on his forum, then doesn't it make sense that he might, given a good oportunity, to prevent those same people from saying the same things right next door? "
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2004, 03:55:00 PM
Ginger, your trolling your own board, sheeesh!
Title: Important Notice
Post by: SyN on January 04, 2004, 04:45:00 PM
this is the song that never ends, it goes on and on my friends...................
remember that childhood favorite.
SyN
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2004, 05:18:00 PM
Ginger, you can try talking to the guy (I'm terrible with names and I'm blanking) from the Grateful Dead, wrote a lot of the songs, big into the EFF thing---he might help especially since you operate more or less as a common carrier---you do not censor content.

Maybe EFF can help get you in touch with an attorney who will at least be reasonable if not pro bono.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2004, 05:35:00 PM
$12500.00 anyone?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2004, 10:30:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-01-04 14:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"$12500.00 anyone?"


Anon, the way I see it, stranger things have happened and will continue to happen as this saga plays itself out.  Best to keep an open-mind until all the cards are on the table.

 :idea:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2004, 10:52:00 PM
The letters from the wwasp people seem to just be doing some damage control.  Posting allegations and mistruths does have a tendency to create that.

It really pales in comparison with what PURE is doing.  Isn't this exactly what wwasp brought them to court over in the first place.  What goes around, comes around.  Thing is that Carey seems to be posting truths, or at least excerpts from a deposition, which is public anyway.  She has her reasons for doing this, but if it's public information, then I don't see where posting it could be considered illegal or warrant a law suit.  

 :oops:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 05, 2004, 11:04:00 PM
Posted: 2003-12-31 12:21:00  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, this seems to be the point where the shit hits the fan. My hosting provider has received 4 letters by courier, one of them from Spring Creek Lodge, the other three varying between requesting the removal of some postings and demanding that they discontinue hosting my websites.

Then, earlier today, I get a phone call from David Pollack, who represents Sue Scheff, asking for my home address to overnight documents related to a requested emergency injunction. I don't know exactly what they're demanding, but it has to do w/ Sue's displeasure with anyone mentioning her name and organization. He says as suite has already been filed and I might think about getting a lawyer.

At the same time, both Ken and Nazi have hinted (or stated outright) that they intend to sue me or have me arrested or investigated by DCYS or whatever.

I don't know anything more than this at this time, except that none of the parties involved in this brawl seem to want anyone talking about it outside of their control. And they seem quite determined.

So, if anyone's so inclined to pool resources to defend me or this forum against any (SLAPP?) suites or to go off into the wilds of Cyberia and continue the conversation elsewhere, now's the time.

-------------------------------------------------

Ginger, will you be able to update Fornit's readers on these issues at some later date? I am interested in knowing what people can best do to help. Just say the word.  Thanks and Good Luck!

 :smokin:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: ClayL on January 06, 2004, 09:01:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-01-03 00:51:00, animals all of us wrote:

"Actually, freedom of speech is just that.  I can call you a fucking weakling and that you are a rapist and that you molest babies without thought or remorse.  I can say that you and your mother enjoy passionate fucking and that the abortions you two create sure taste swell to you.  I can say ALL this without provocation from you, without need or incentive.  I can say all this without having to worry about it unless it is actually slanderous or harmful to your character or how you function societally, even if it is true.  You don't have the slightest inkling."


Well, you probably couldn't say it face to face and leave with all your teeth.....

CL
Title: Important Notice
Post by: ClayL on January 06, 2004, 09:15:00 AM
Hunter is the EFF guy or at least was when I was in college. He always reponded to my email and was very helpful in some of the research that I was doing at the time. It was something about electronic privacy.

CL
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 06, 2004, 11:19:00 AM
Actually John Perry Barlow (Weir's writer) and Mitch Kapor of Lotus fame founded the EFF.

As far as I know, Hunter was never involved or if he was, isn't publicly so.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Kiwi on January 07, 2004, 11:14:00 AM
Ginger, have you actually been served with anything yet?  This thread is somewhat long on opinion and short on facts.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on January 07, 2004, 10:32:00 PM
Even that is uncertain, depending on the legal definition of the term "served" in the various jurisductions.

May the fleas of one thousand llamas infest your armpits
--One ticked off sysadmin

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Carey on January 08, 2004, 07:40:00 AM
Ginger,

I have legally been served, which means you too should have been legally served.

After we spoke I started thinking this really is a good thing.  You see when we go to court we will be able to disclose all those anon's who posted claiming to not be associated with PURE.  We will also be able to disclose any postings by PURE.

The truth shall set us free!  The defaming on this site has been by the PUREst.  I am the one who has been a victim of vicious slander, not PURE.  The only thing disclosed on PURE has been the truth.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 08, 2004, 06:39:00 PM
PURE = SPOILED
SAFE = UNSAFE
STRAIGHT = CROOKED

vsp
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Kiwi on January 09, 2004, 06:01:00 AM
Quote
My hosting provider has received 4 letters by courier, one of them from Spring Creek Lodge, the other three varying between requesting the removal of some postings and demanding that they discontinue hosting my websites.


What did SCL have to say and who were the other letters from?  Are any of these people threatening legal action as well?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2004, 09:22:00 PM
Maybe the Court will order a 730 Exam for Carey.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2004, 10:50:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-01-09 18:22:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Maybe the Court will order a 730 Exam for Carey."


OMG, what are YOU, Anon?  A certifiable lunatic?  

 :silly:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2004, 11:06:00 AM
I think the first Anon has a point, Carey could benefit from a psych exam.  Why not?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2004, 11:08:00 AM
Oh and let me not forget the stupid emoticon

 ::bwahaha::
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2004, 12:52:00 PM
Assicons would be more appropriate for the anon posting this b.s. which is nothing more than a half-assed attempt to sway public opinion.

 ::crybaby::
Title: Important Notice
Post by: animals all of us on January 10, 2004, 03:25:00 PM
well, I have enjoyed all this tyrannical raving about the truth.  Without her and other people I don't know their names yet, many of those who post here would not be so lucky to have the communication and luxured privilege to know other survivors for better or worse.  
I have seen more days of confidence (and earnest growing pains) in knowing who I am, where I come from, and where I am going now, along with the support and knowing that there are others who have been there with me - with the aid of these forums.
I mean, who are we kidding here???  You know this site is good.  It allows you to come here and rant about how its no good and that you got too much free time and you wanna make victims suffer just
a          
little            
bit
more
and whatever else you wanted to say.  I would have done with you by now.
You know you like the attention.  
Hell is what this is baby.  Its personalized and I know you will be sorry when you try to fuck it up and waste more of your wasted lives or whatever cos its gonna be
Shoved
into your ass again like it always has. I feel sorry for you losing bums.  And you'll probly still be welcome here I betcha and then I will see what's really wrong with ya cos you ain't chattin bout shit right now.  Nevermind that you don't go to other sites for special victims cos there really ain't none who have been in bulk treatment like us.  How the fuck would YOU improve a site like this where ALL are welcome and can finally speak openly and outwardly?  I get still when I think how they let me back after some of the secret things I have said about my ho Melvin Sembler.  I mean, its none of your damn business that I am one of those classic perverts who doesn't mind not being popular.  That's right, I still use the old PVC pipe and gerbil/hamsters on Melly.  He doesn't seem to mind.  He smiles while he gets pet-filled.  Maybe that's why he talks with a lisp with all those gerbils rampant in him.  Maybe that's why you can't walk right or talk right, too, Everyone one of you chumbucket spammzoids.
This message is intended for everyone who has a real problem with these forums.  
I have a problem with this forum because it allows any others to tarnish the luvin and growth factor, many bozo type fuckers more bozoie than myself come here and fuck shit up.  
More importantly, dear persons against these forums, Fuck you and yours.  Let me know.
If you are interested in meeting face to face I will set up a time when it is convenient for you and I to meet so we can work it all the way out.
If you are serious and want to go all the way with your serious disgruntled misgivings about any of these straight or elan forums; sup.  Lemme know.  I'll cash you a check with a fat return.
Yep, I am threatening you.  Bitch.
 :em:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2004, 07:41:00 PM
What is your IQ, maybe 60 or 70?  What a freak.  Your threat definitely scared me LOL!!
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2004, 11:28:00 PM
I think Animals is more or less expressing his/her displeasure for those who are trying to shut down Fornits through legal action.  That's what I'm reading here, but because I don't know all the issues, maybe I am off base.  Anyway, the suggestion for Carey to get a psych exam was just plain assinine.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: animals all of us on January 11, 2004, 05:52:00 PM
I was laughing harder when I wrote that shit about you nutsacks.  Anyways, seriously, if you disagree with these websites, we should definitely meet.
Carrie needing a severe psych eval is assinine in the fact that she and all the rest of you gerbil in your ass lovers are way beyond your checkup dates and just plain late.
LOL.  I am way more scared.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: kaydeejaded on January 12, 2004, 05:11:00 PM
::nod:: everyone could benefit from a good psych eval. animals I totally agree.

if fornits gets shut down it will be directly related at least in my mind to Carey. I hope in the end her bringing all this upon us who mind you were actual victims in the first place...... does some good and is not just an exersise in ego development.

because, and bare with me I do not know all the facts as to what Good Carey and he e-mail whatever has done, if it is none. Then she has taken this place away from the survivors it is intended for and used it to just inact her own ego issues.  

To the extent that a society limits its government to policing functions which curb the individuals who engage in aggressive and criminal actions, and conducts its economic affairs on the basis of free and willing exchange, to that extent domestic peace prevails. When a society departs from this norm, its governing class begins, in effect, to make war upon the rest of the nation. A situation is created in which everyone is victimized by everyone else under the fiction of each living at the expense of all.

--Edmund A. Opitz

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2004, 09:31:00 PM
It would be helpful to know what the case filing number of this lawsuit is and where (state) the lawsuit was filed.  

 :???:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on January 12, 2004, 10:51:00 PM
Kady, saying that Carey did something to these fora by drawing a lawsuit is like saying the bitch bought herself a good ass whoopin' cause sue doesn't know when to shut up. Don't take anybody's word for anything. Judge for yourself.

BTW, I looked it up and found that, indeed, fora is the proper plural form of forum. Should I change the logo? What do ya'll think? I sort of like the sound of it.

The most fundamental fact about the ideas of the political left is that they do not work. Therefore we should not be surprised to find the left concentrated in institutions where ideas do not have to work in order to survive.


--Thomas Sowell

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2004, 03:32:00 PM
To the anon requesting lawsuit Info.  I assume you mean the lawsuit against Ginger and Carey:

Case was Brought in the State of Florida, Broward County, which, in Florida, is the 17th Judicial Circuit.

To Antigen:

I thought Kaydee's post was very very insightful!
Title: Important Notice
Post by: animals all of us on January 13, 2004, 04:03:00 PM
To the anon postor directly before this:
Are you spam hindering these sites, your last post is confusing as you use an incomplete antecedent while mentioning a post from kaydeejayded.  That is what quotations are for.
If you were talking about psych evals, check your own head.  If you weren't, check it anyways.
If you don't like these sites, lets get together and discuss it and stuff.  If you do like this site, please disregard this message.

When I think of the word 'forum', or 'fornits' (little creatures that live inside my keyboard from steven king???) I always think of something disturbingly hectic and a little dirty and involved and maybe healthy and cheap.
So if Fora is the plural of that, you could give me some more.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2004, 04:06:00 PM
Animals, you are stupid - enough said.

Anon, I forgot the Docket Number.  It is CA-C-03-022837, Division 18.

Animals, in case you forgot, you are stupid!
Title: Important Notice
Post by: teachback on January 13, 2004, 05:00:00 PM
Quote
BTW, I looked it up and found that, indeed, fora is the proper plural form of forum. Should I change the logo? What do ya'll think? I sort of like the sound of it.

No.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: SyN on January 13, 2004, 08:25:00 PM
no.
no.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2004, 08:54:00 PM
No Ginger don't change it. :em:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on January 13, 2004, 10:20:00 PM
But ... how come :???: I like it! It sounds like flora

A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
A republic is where the sheep get to pick which wolves vote on what to have for dinner.
But in a constitutional republic, voting on dinner is strictly
forbidden.

--A Patriot

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2004, 11:13:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-01-13 13:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Animals, you are stupid - enough said.



Anon, I forgot the Docket Number.  It is CA-C-03-022837, Division 18.



Animals, in case you forgot, you are stupid!"


Has anyone actually seen or read the docket on this case?

 :idea:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2004, 03:42:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-01-13 12:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

"To the anon requesting lawsuit Info.  I assume you mean the lawsuit against Ginger and Carey:



Case was Brought in the State of Florida, Broward County, which, in Florida, is the 17th Judicial Circuit.



To Antigen:



I thought Kaydee's post was very very insightful!



"


When was this case filed?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: animals all of us on January 14, 2004, 06:51:00 AM
Well, if I be stupid what does that make you ?
No argument here.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2004, 09:43:00 AM
The docket here in Florida is tough to read,  It's a voice response system that sucks big time.  You can call it and try to deal with the antiquated auto-attendant but you're best bet is to male away for it if you think it might be of some interest.

I hope this helps you:

ADA/TDD LINE: 954-831-6364


APPEALS - Room - 220
Public Information: 954-712-7899 Ext 7801


ARCHIVES - 515 S. W. 2nd Avenue, Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33301
Public Information (Archived Records): 954-712-7899 Ext 7802
Public Information (Current Records): 954-712-7899 Ext 7803


CIRCUIT COURT CIVIL - Room - 230
Automated Docket Information: 954-712-7899
Public Information: 954-831-6565
Adoptions: 954-831-8619
Copy Center: 954-831-5775
Correspondence: 954-831-5740
Court Registry: 954-831-5659
Divorce: 954-831-7196
Docketing: 954-831-5795
Domestic Violence: 954-831-5520
Family File Room: 954-831-6245
Foreclosures: 954-831-5745
Record Search: 954-831-5740
Search/Transfer Clerk: 954-831-5769


CTD - CLERK'S TECHNOLOGY DIVISION - Room - 760
Technology Services: 954-831-6938


COUNTY COURT - CIVIL - Room - 120
Automated Docket Information: 954-712-7899
Public Information: 954-831-6565


CRIMINAL COURT - FELONY - Room - 160
AVR (Automated Voice Response) Case Information: 954-712-7899
Public Information: 954-831-6565
Attorney Information: 954-831-5600


FINANCE/BUDGET - Room - 275
Public Information: 954-831-6244


GUARDIANSHIP AUDITING - Room - 252
Public Information: 954-831-5512


HUMAN RESOURCES - Room - 137
Public Information: 954-831-5514


JUVENILE DIVISION - Room - 444
Public Information: 954-831-5662


MARRIAGE - Room - 270
Public Information: 954-712-7899 Ext. 7842
Marriage License Copies: 954-712-7899 Ext. 7841


MARRIAGE - Room - 270
Public Information: 954-712-7899 Ext. 7842
Marriage License Copies: 954-712-7899 Ext. 7841


ONE STOP CUSTOMER SERVICE DIVISION
North Public Information: 954-831-1453
South Public Information: 954-831-0320
West Public Information: 954-831-3371


PARKING - Room - 220
Public Information: 954-831-5804


PROBATE/MENTAL HEALTH - Room - 252
Automated Docket Information: 954-712-7899
Public Information: 954-831-7154


PUBLIC ACCESS PROGRAMS - Room - 760
Internet/Public Access Help Desk: 954-831-5588


PURCHASING/FACILITIES - Room - 265
Public Information: 954-831-5657


SATELLITE COURTHOUSES - COUNTY COURT

NORTH REGIONAL COURTHOUSE - 1600 W. Hillsboro Blvd., Deerfield Beach, FL 33442
Civil Automated Docket Information: 954-712-7899
Civil Public Information: 954-831-6565
Traffic & Misdemeanor Fine Payments: 954-712-7899
Traffic & Misdemeanor Public Information: 954-831-6565


SOUTH REGIONAL COURTHOUSE - 3550 Hollywood Blvd., Hollywood, FL 33021
Civil Automated Docket Information: 954-712-7899
Civil Public Information: 954-831-6565
Traffic & Misdemeanor Fine Payments: 954-712-7899
Traffic & Misdemeanor Public Information: 954-831-6565


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Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2004, 09:45:00 AM
oh boy, iy's too early here, male should be mail, before I get 20 hostile reply posts.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2004, 09:54:00 AM
Can someone check the PACER system to see when the case was filed?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: kaydeejaded on January 14, 2004, 11:10:00 AM
animals you are not stupid and you know it  :wink:

Ginger don't change it fora fornits maybe stick that somewhere but changing it all together? :sad: It would feel well changed.

as for the Carey thing hmmm I see the point of your arguement I do. For some reason this whole thing has just never sat right with me. It is probably just my own issue though, and as I said earlier I am not completely informed on it. I do also tend to be suspicious of people and there motives. One of by charecter flaws indeed.  

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense

--Buddha

Title: Important Notice
Post by: kaydeejaded on January 14, 2004, 11:11:00 AM
Ha perfect quote as usual  :lol:

It continues to amaze me to talk to law students -- college
graduates all and smarter than the average bear -- who will
seriously tell me about how dangerous mj is and how it
destroys the lives of those who use it and who, in the
very next sentence, will tell me how they and their
friends -- now CPAs, engineers, med students -- used
pot regularly through high school and college.  And
they don't see the contradiction between these statements.

We're not just talking ignorance here -- we are talking
deep down, serious, religious indoctrination.


--Buford C. Terrell, Professor of Law, South Texas College of Law

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2004, 12:35:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-01-14 06:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

"oh boy, iy's too early here, male should be mail, before I get 20 hostile reply posts."


If this case was filed in the Flordia 18th District County Court, it should show up in the Pacer System, where you could read the complaint online, correct?  

 :???:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2004, 02:59:00 PM
Is this another Red Herring?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2004, 03:43:00 PM
PACER is Federal.  Only Federal cases appear on the PACER system.  Unfortunately, we have to access the state specific systems for information about cases filed in State Court, which Sue's was.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2004, 05:19:00 PM
If someone finds it online, please post a link. I searched the site and couldn't find it.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2004, 05:51:00 PM
Have the defendants filed a counter-claim (lawsuit) yet?  If so, is it available online?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2004, 10:55:00 PM
Forums are very important. I just came off a crusade trying to take down forum pages because I believed in someone the pages appeared to attack. Come to find out the person I believed in turned on me as well.

Be careful who you champion. Your character, reputation and good name is on the line when you stand with some scum ball that is showing you only his/her good side to you. Be sure you know them. When there is compelling amounts of data regarding a peson or entity that is negative about that person or entity, don't disregard it and say that just can't be true! A body of evidence confirms the old saying "Where there is smoke there must be fire....". If you disregard the smoke you may get BURNED yourself!!

I got forum page squashed that had truth about this man/woman. Now they are gone. Now I know the truth about him/her but it is TOO late!

Be sure, so sure when you go after a ideal it is really a shining and pure ideal, not just a sham wrapped in idealistic clothing.

If I sound cryptic, I am so I don't reveal my identity. It doesn't matter who I am, anyway. It is the concept I am interested in anyway. Know the people you lay your reputation on the line for!
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2004, 11:00:00 PM
I wish I had resources, but right now I don't, but my prayers are with you. Stand up for what is right and what you believe in.

Thanks!
Title: Important Notice
Post by: animals all of us on January 15, 2004, 06:25:00 PM
Hey!!!
Someone said the word 'Male' a few posts ago, which was apparently meant to be spelled out as 'mail'. Some anonymous postor who spent ten hours trying to tell everyone how to log into the county and/or federal recording systems over the phone or some hidden agenda crap.
What the fuck is that supposed to be Mr./Mrs. Anonymous Postor, some kind of fucking Freudian Slip or something ???
Huh? No.  Next time you finish the slip, finish your insult and go ahead and say that you feel that only men should deliver the 'male' in their tight fucking shorts, huh???
Next time finish your statement you 'hidden meaning' typer you.
You can write some fifteen hour paste/copy perfecto recordo stuff so that I can log onto the phone to find the 'Male' room, but you can't fix a Freudian typo ?!?  
I bet you are one of those people who want to shut down the Fora, you clocking mindwasher.
Hey, Melvin Sembler is my g/f.  He likes to be called 'Male' while your delivering service to him with a smile.  Wanna go at him???
(this message is brought to you by someone who has more time on his mail hands than several others)
 :grin:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on January 15, 2004, 08:19:00 PM
Animals forgot about being a retard, or was it stupid...pitty for Animals!
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Therion on January 16, 2004, 03:40:00 AM
I have nothing in this world but time :smokin:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Therion on January 16, 2004, 03:41:00 AM
Just look at my hefty post count...

God forbid I actually put my mind to something
useful like ruining evil mindwashers...


And I have been getting bored lately...
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on February 11, 2004, 08:57:00 AM
Finally!,
The fates have smiled, well... maybe snickered a little, upon me. For the first time in over a month I have the time, info and reasoned advice from my lawyer so that I can say something about the damned lawsuit. Well, no, actually, I probably could, but I don't have that much time today. I can only give you some of the correspondence.

Here (http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/PURE/Silvester.doc) is a letter from WWASP attys.

And, finally, Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)

[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2004-02-11 05:58 ]
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2004, 04:01:00 PM
Ginger is in interesting company being added to Phil Elberg's client list.  Let's take a walk down the Memory Lane of some of Mr. Elberg's very upstanding list of clients.

Let us start with a man indicted for assault with intent to commit sodomy (N.J.S.A. 2A:90-2), sodomy (N.J.S.A. 2A:143-1) and impairing the morals of a child (N.J.S.A. 2A:96-3). Ginger's lawyer did a fine job representing his Defendant client on this one.  Check it out State v. Ciuffini 164 NJ Super 145.

Next interesting case involves a Defendant client of "Phil's" who was convicted of distribution of a controlled dangerous substance (N.J.S.A. 24:21-19(a)) and conspiracy to distribute a controlled dangerous substance (N.J.S.A. 24:21-24). This didn't work out so well for his client, but "Phil" definitely did his best to get his fine client off on this. State v. Hamlet 155 NJ Super 512.

Oh, there's more... try in re: The Estate of Erwin Wurtzel, where "Phil" tried to get an increased attorney's fee in excess of the contingent fee provided for in their retainer agreement and allowed by R. 1:21-7(c) pursuant to the provisions of R. 1:21-7(f).

I'm not sure this would have been my choice?
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2004, 07:07:00 PM
Are you saying no attorney should defend criminals?  Or that no attorney should ever lose?  Or that fees should never be renegotiated in legal cases in accordance with the law?

By those criteria, Abraham Lincoln would be considered an unethical lawyer.  Give me a break!
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Kiwi on February 12, 2004, 04:30:00 AM
http://http://election.dos.state.fl.us/laws/02laws/ch_2002-077.pdf

In case anyone is wondering, Section 57.105 says:

(1) Upon the court?s initiative or motion of any party, the court shall award a reasonable attorney?s fee to be paid to the prevailing party in equal amounts by the losing party and the losing party?s attorney on any claim or defense at any time during a civil proceeding or action in which the court finds that the losing party or the losing party?s attorney knew or should have known that a claim or defense when initially presented to the court or at any time before trial:

(a) Was not supported by the material facts necessary to establish the claim or defense; or

(b) Would not be supported by the application of then-existing law to those material facts.

It then rambles on a bit but this is the key part.  Bottom line: PURE's lawyers stand to lose money as well!  That should give them something to think about.
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2004, 07:31:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-02-11 13:01:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ginger is in interesting company being added to Phil Elberg's client list.  Let's take a walk down the Memory Lane of some of Mr. Elberg's very upstanding list of clients.



Let us start with a man indicted for assault with intent to commit sodomy (N.J.S.A. 2A:90-2), sodomy (N.J.S.A. 2A:143-1) and impairing the morals of a child (N.J.S.A. 2A:96-3). Ginger's lawyer did a fine job representing his Defendant client on this one.  Check it out State v. Ciuffini 164 NJ Super 145.



Next interesting case involves a Defendant client of "Phil's" who was convicted of distribution of a controlled dangerous substance (N.J.S.A. 24:21-19(a)) and conspiracy to distribute a controlled dangerous substance (N.J.S.A. 24:21-24). This didn't work out so well for his client, but "Phil" definitely did his best to get his fine client off on this. State v. Hamlet 155 NJ Super 512.



Oh, there's more... try in re: The Estate of Erwin Wurtzel, where "Phil" tried to get an increased attorney's fee in excess of the contingent fee provided for in their retainer agreement and allowed by R. 1:21-7(c) pursuant to the provisions of R. 1:21-7(f).



I'm not sure this would have been my choice?



                                   

"


Sure, you're right....let's throw out the entire justice system.  FUCK rights, FUCK innocent until proven guilty...we should have NO defense attorneys....how dare they!! :roll:  :roll:

Why don't you check out some of Phil's OTHER clients....Lulu Corter?!?!?!  http://www.thestraights.com/articles/lulu.htm (http://www.thestraights.com/articles/lulu.htm)
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/ap ... 9.opn.html (http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a4975-99.opn.html)
Phil got good ole Miller to SETTLE for $11.5 MILLION and 4.5 MILLION respectively...SETTLE
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on February 12, 2004, 08:07:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-02-11 16:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Are you saying no attorney should defend criminals?  Or that no attorney should ever lose?  Or that fees should never be renegotiated in legal cases in accordance with the law?

By those criteria, Abraham Lincoln would be considered an unethical lawyer.  Give me a break!"


I think what our anonymous friend here is saying is that he is just incredibly ignorant of even fairly recent industry history.  

Most of our readers at WWF, where the acronym is no accident, know very well who Phil is. Here's a Google search on his name.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=U ... hil+elberg (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=phil+elberg)

Without giving away the actual (or pretended?) identity of this anon poster, I would like to add that it seems to be the same person who provided me w/ some of the WWASP v PURE documents from PACER.

Either that or this is just a.  :nworthy:






[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2004-02-12 05:30 ]
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2004, 01:09:00 PM
Excellent choice for an attorney, Ginger!  They don't come much more brilliant or dedicated as Phil.  Good luck and I look forward to updates as you are able to provide.  Fornits is in very good hands.

 :wave:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Janet on February 12, 2004, 05:52:00 PM
Ginger, I, too, am pleased to hear of your good news and look forward to updates.  Your attorney wrote a very good letter to WWASP.  
    Janet
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on February 18, 2004, 07:37:00 AM
Ginger, I have read the letter to Pollack (PURE's attorney) which certainly makes a definitive argument in defense of your legal and constitutional rights.  Has Pollack responded to the points made by your attorney and/or officially notified you as to whether his client (Sue Scheff) actually intends to go forward with this lawsuit?

http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/PURE/DearMrpo3.doc (http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/PURE/DearMrpo3.doc)
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on February 18, 2004, 11:02:00 AM
You'd have to ask Phil.

Whenever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on February 23, 2004, 11:37:00 PM
Well now, I'll be damned! Unbenounced to me, Marty Goldensohn actually did ask him! Phil was a guest on Been There/Done That on NPR yesterday, Sunday, Feb 22 and had occasion to mention the letters I've received from WWASP- PURE and the PURE lawsuit. I'm listening now. Haven't gotten to that spot in the show yet and I may have to turn in before I do.

Here's the setup:
http://www.whyy.org/91FM/btdt/index.html (http://www.whyy.org/91FM/btdt/index.html)

Here's the current audio feed (RealAudio):
http://www.whyy.org/rameta/BTDT/current.ram (http://www.whyy.org/rameta/BTDT/current.ram)

And here's the link to the archive if you're reading this after Leap Day, 2004:
http://www.whyy.org/91FM/btdt/archive.html (http://www.whyy.org/91FM/btdt/archive.html)

May 12-13: Sowed Hemp at Muddy  hole by Swamp. August 7: Began to separate the Male from the Female at Do - rather too late.
George Washington (Diary)

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Deborah on February 24, 2004, 09:04:00 AM
Hey Ginger,
No time to listen to the whole program. Can you tell me where to fast forward to?
Thanks
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on February 24, 2004, 12:51:00 PM
I listened to the whole show, it was excellent! For some reason though, the segment with Phil was not aired on the show I listened to.  Perhaps we need to wait a few days until this interview is available?  Ginger, lemme know, because I definitly want to hear what Phil has to say.  Thanks!! (And Come Back Soon!!!!)

 :wave:
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on February 24, 2004, 10:34:00 PM
Hey folks. I was mistaken. It was actually the 02/14/04 show

http://realserver2.whyy.org:8080/ramgen ... 0214_20.rm (http://realserver2.whyy.org:8080/ramgen/91FM/BTDT/BTDT20040214_20.rm)

I haven't heard it yet either. Just got in a few min ago.

To go to Journal of Applied Polymer Science go to http://www3.interscience.wiley.com (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com) and then journal search and put the journal number and year
-- Journal of Applied Polymer Science  Vol. 47, 1984

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2004, 06:59:00 PM
What happen to the brave PURE Volunteer, Lee?

Quote
Judge Warbis,

It appears that fornits maybe in some kind of trouble, from your recent reply for assistance. I'd love to help you; but then I'd be accused of supporting fornits, Ginger & Carey!!! Not in this life time. Remember the ass chewing I received for supporting the last site I saved??? Sorry to see you go, I've enjoyed the entertainment over the last year.

Maybe now you have some idea of how INVOLVED you really are? If memory serves me...it was you who continued to harp on me letting go of a shovel a few months back. I guess you can look for a tool of your choosing now. Oh & BTW now you may have noticed that your psychology experiment, you so boldly bragged about; has bitten the hand that feeds it.

Regards,

Lee
P.U.R.E. Volunteer


Judge Warbis,

Oh, weary one of the key boards & master of the English language...excuse me it appears that I may have struck a nerve?

Your honor, you are absolutely incorrect...I am the perfect asshole according to my last rectal exam via my local physician.

Now, you want to resort to tongue lashing me? My...My...aren't we the righteous one to carry a torch for child abuse or even Straights for that matter. Again...if my memory serves me correctly...didn't you miss YOUR opportunity to save the children?

I don't know anything about a SLAPP suit or why you are accusing me of this grateful feat! But, I do love it when the shoe is on YOUR foot. Just maybe, you should thank Carey for exposing HER truths...she's a figment of her own imagination, along with you & your ever so humbling self. Please tell me again...which one of you is fighting for child abuse...I forgot?

Couldn't happen to a better pair of ladies if you ask me!!! BTW; I don't bully or intimidate...I state my opinion & move on...however, I do sometimes repeat my self from time to time as turbinekat or anon right along with the rest of yawl. Please have a happy New Year this evening!!! Remember not to drink & drive.

Oh & dear, please remember, that this is only my honest opinion via the internet?on your own forum.

Regards,

Lee
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on July 03, 2004, 09:20:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-01-03 22:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ginger,

That does make sense and it is quite an interesting point you brought up.



Let me make sure I understand.



1. Nobody has ever said that ken abused anyone while he was a resident or on the staff at Elan.


And, btw, that is essentially the same argument that Charles Manson's defense used to successfully defend him against multiple first degree murder charges. Stick w/ a winner! WTF, right?

Until you've lost your reputation,you never realize what a burden it was or what freedom really is.

 


MARGARET MITCHELL

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Antigen on July 03, 2004, 09:22:00 PM
P.S., you probably won't believe me, but I honestly don't pick the quotes that turn up randomly at the end of my posts. If anyone does, it's Crazy Mac. And I miss him dearly.

...the people have a right to keep and bear arms.
-- Patrick Henry and George Mason Debates

Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on July 16, 2004, 07:38:00 PM
I can't read all of these huge threads, do you still need help? I'm definitely on your side in this thing being a Synanon victim/veteran/whatever.

You mentioned Manson, he is still defending himself: http://www.atwa.info/ (http://www.atwa.info/)
Title: Important Notice
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2004, 08:14:00 AM
Manson is an ass and deserves to die in prison.