The problem here is that you are trying to shock everyone into seeing it your way, or maybe this is just you, though I doubt it from how clearly intelligent you are underneath the rhetoric.
Don't worry about temptation--as you grow older, it starts avoiding you.
-- Old Farmer's Almanac
On 2003-12-14 12:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Let me help the owner or moderator of this mess:
1- Carey is a horribly despicable person for accepting money from WWASP. There is no excuse for what she's done. If she feared the subpoena power of WWASP, then why not wait until it was issued and then act in accordance with the Court Order, or try to fight the subpoena?
That she accepted money from the organization abusing children, and afterwards cloaked her misdeed in fear of the law is an extremely clear message that Carey has no integrity whatsoever and that she is now, in addition to being a bad mother, a complete coward.
2- The moderator (Antigen?) is clearly smoking grass while posting her position of sympathy to Carey's position. Antigen, you seem to be a survivor. I'm curious to know how you can take the position that these organizations are bad, and then defend someone, in any way, who just profited financially by accepting money from it and, at the same time, helped to further WWASP's mission of torturing children?
3- Froderick13. You're right about everything. The problem here is that you are trying to shock everyone into seeing it your way, or maybe this is just you, though I doubt it from how clearly intelligent you are underneath the rhetoric. Anyhow, the problem about this board that you need to come to terms with is that its moderator, owner or whatever has virtually no control over it. She let's it run absolutely out of control. She pretends to be neutral, yet she becomes hostile when someone goes from just bitching behind his or her keyboard to provoking some worthwhile thought. It's funny to no end, but very unhelpful to the cause of shutting down WWASP and its partners.
"
Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
--James Madison
How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate, they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to.
George Orwell, 1984
Carey took money, when she could have given the information to WWASP involuntarily and for free. After that, Miss "why would anyone be interested in my thoughts", there is nothing else!
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe. -- My First Summer in the Sierra , 1911, page 110.
John Muir
On 2003-12-14 14:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Carey took money?"
If you think yourself too wise to involve
yourself in government, you will be governed
by those too foolish to govern.
--Plato
Every man has a property in his own person.
This nobody has any right to but himself.
The labor of his body and the work of his
hands are properly his.
--John Locke
On 2003-12-14 14:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Morli, you're a God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
By the way, why insult Froderik13. I acknowledged that his base argument is right. That's funny how?
Carey took money, when she could have given the information to WWASP involuntarily and for free. After that, Miss "why would anyone be interested in my thoughts", there is nothing else!
...and in all indictments for libels the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the facts, under the direction of the court, as in other cases.
(Jury nullification. It's not just a good idea, it's the law!)
Declaration of Rights, PA Constitution
On 2003-12-14 15:56:00, GregFL wrote:
"The way I see it is that WWASP and PURE are the flip sides of the same coin, and Carey is just another victim of the teen help industry, like we all were/are.
The players here WWASP and PURE, and those other people attacking individuals here are just playing right into their game and deflecting the conversation away from important and topical issues.
So, those of you that are fond of attacking people here, I hope you are also fond of being used by people that for all intents and purposes resemble the people who fucked up your own childhood. Here you are 10, 20, and 30 years later, using language and techniques you learned in group to attack other victims. This has become one big fucked up come down session, and like the old days, it has no meaning and no value except to belittle and humiliate people. How weak and how pathetic.
Tell me, how far have you really come? Why are you still stuck acting like you are still an oldcomer with a questionable set of unsociable skills used to attack others?
To me, this whole discussion has been unproductive and irritating. Those responsible should be ashamed of themselves and re-evaluate their behavior.
Every man has a property in his own person."
This nobody has any right to but himself.
The labor of his body and the work of his
hands are properly his.
--John Locke
I believe that human beings arrive on this Earth wanting to know absolutely everything, and the best thing we can do as parents is to get out of the way -- just be there to let them know what opportunities are there
-- Dorothy Werner, media liaison for the National Homeschool Association
Does you question here, Froderick, justify your behavior...your deeply offensive and insulting words? Your discussing Carey's body parts in a highly disrepectfull and juvenile manner? Your alignment with a racist and someone who threatens people? Your threatening and offensive comments to people who have tried to bring a halt to this nonsense?
On 2003-12-14 16:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"GregFL seems to think he is some sort of analyst and that he is better than everyone else posting on this board. That is Greg's theme. Greg, I for one am pretty glad you're irritated, because you're just about the most boring person I have ever come accross!
What a doofus!"
On 2003-12-14 16:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Antigen,
I get it, you think I'm Sue Sheff. No, no, no. Oh my gosh, No. That may be the greatest insult you have written all evening. If Sue is doing what all of these businesses do that charge parents to get them to the torture houses, she's just as bad as WWASP. So, I hope we've gotten that out of the way.
You and I don't see any of this the same way, which is fine, it's your forum. But I don't think you're helping anyone here.
Bye!"
To make certain that crime does not pay, the government should take it
over and try to run it
--G. Norman Collie
On 2003-12-14 16:52:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"Sorry Greg.QuoteDoes you question here, Froderick, justify your behavior...your deeply offensive and insulting words? Your discussing Carey's body parts in a highly disrepectfull and juvenile manner? Your alignment with a racist and someone who threatens people? Your threatening and offensive comments to people who have tried to bring a halt to this nonsense?
You're a little off here. That woman pissed me off. Period. It wasn't about what she did, it was her behavior in the moment that did it for me. And man, I don't "align" myself with nobody. I was just sticking up for the guy. Yeah, I didn't think people were right in messing with him, even though...and that stuff was resolved peacefully in the end, believe it or not. If you don't believe me, go read the Elan forum. it won't kill you. I bite back when these anons start in on me. i won't apologize for that. I don't regret one bit of the nastiness to them. I do hopr that this doesn't put people off, BUT, I figure anyone with a pulse will understand (to some degree) my reactions. "
Save our planet; it's the only one with chocolate!
--Andi, domestic goddess
WHEN SPIDERS UNITE, THEY CAN TIE DOWN A LION
-- Ethiopian Proverb
On 2003-12-14 16:52:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"Sorry Greg.QuoteDoes you question here, Froderick, justify your behavior...your deeply offensive and insulting words? Your discussing Carey's body parts in a highly disrepectfull and juvenile manner? Your alignment with a racist and someone who threatens people? Your threatening and offensive comments to people who have tried to bring a halt to this nonsense?
You're a little off here. That woman pissed me off. Period. It wasn't about what she did, it was her behavior in the moment that did it for me. And man, I don't "align" myself with nobody. I was just sticking up for the guy. Yeah, I didn't think people were right in messing with him, even though...and that stuff was resolved peacefully in the end, believe it or not. If you don't believe me, go read the Elan forum. it won't kill you. I bite back when these anons start in on me. i won't apologize for that. I don't regret one bit of the nastiness to them. I do hopr that this doesn't put people off, BUT, I figure anyone with a pulse will understand (to some degree) my reactions. "
On 2003-12-14 16:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"She testified in the deposition that she went to them. But on the money, I just want to clarify one thing, are you saying that you'd risk making trouble for a large group of injured parents and take $12,500.00, if you were in the same boat as them and they were confiding in you? Or would you tell WWASP, go ahead and get your subpoena. I'd do the "go get your subpoena" plan. I don't like to be told what to do, especially when it's going to clearly hurt others and help the monsters win law suits just to shut-up people trying to speak out against them.
C'mon Froderik, you'd do the right thing!"
If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil
deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
Alexandr Solzhenitsyn
On 2003-12-14 17:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Antigen:
While we may disagree on Carey and the ganging up on Froderick13, there is no disagreement between us about Sue Sheff. If Sue took money to liberate kids and added some huge surcharge as I did read, by the way, in other threads that is 100% wrong. Sheff represents to the public at large that she is the savior of all troubled kids selflessly fighting against WWASP, It's obvious that's bullshit. If she's making money by inducing parents to send kids, already messed up, to torture farms she's WWASP with another name. Here, we agree."
Come in the evening, or come in the morning; Come when you 're looked for, or come without warning.
-- Thomas O. Davis (1814-1845): The Welcome.
On 2003-12-14 17:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To the other anon. Your name is what, Mary Tyler Moore or are you Alice in Wonderland, and you just fell into the rabbit hole? Nobody here is owed an apology on Carey and I stand by my comments on Greg. Greg thinks he's Prof. Kingsfield from the Paper Chase TV Series and that tone would annoy most people.
"
On 2003-12-14 17:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Here we go, we're going to disagree again. If Carey did one thing to accelerate the process in getting WWASP to the people who made the comments against WWASP it's flat out wrong.
The "personality transplant" did not come by accident, but by way of the twelve and a half grand.
Any way you look at it, it's tainted money."
Homeschool is self regulating. The school board is not going to have illiterate useless people living in their homes forever if they don't have a working education policy.
--Sisterbluerose
The body of
Benjamin Franklin, printer,
(Like the cover of an old book,
Its contents worn out,
And scripts of it's lettering and gilding)
Lies Here, food for worms!
Yet the work itself shall not be lost,
For it will, as he believed, appear once more
In a new
And more beautiful edition,
Corrected and amended
By it's Author!
Epitaph for himself.
--Benjamin Franklin 1706-1790
On 2003-12-14 17:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Anon:
What I see, is that this board is not the Queen's Annual Garden Party and that the owner has utterly failed to establish what is or is not proper to post on this board.
No rules = no apologies."
Legalizing drugs is far from a panacea for all the distress caused by drugs, but it will eliminate most of the profit and corruption from the drug trade.
--Nobel laureate, Gary S. Becker
On 2003-12-14 17:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
Her shield seems to get raised when she's been personally offended, and then you get a long, wordy reply, which depending on how much she's been smoking can be very nasty.
WHEN SPIDERS UNITE, THEY CAN TIE DOWN A LION
-- Ethiopian Proverb
That which does not kill you can make you stronger, but I really never needed to be this strong.
Scott Wagner
On 2003-12-14 18:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Antigen,
In your parallel the diamond buyer or the buyer of something made in China doesn't know for certain that the item they're purchasing caused the expoitation of another. With Carey, there is no doubt that she took money from WWASP which literally celebrates their reputation of torturing children. Also, Carey knew there were people who might be harmed by what she was doing. If you liker and what she did then I say fine, but wow is that messed up!"
The worst government is the most moral. One composed of cynics
is often very tolerant and human. But when fanatics are on top,
there is no limit to oppression.
--H.L. Mencken
On 2003-12-14 18:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Antigen,
I understand your position better than you think."
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-- Emo Phillips
If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil
deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
Alexandr Solzhenitsyn
On 2003-12-14 17:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Greg:
If it's OK to call you Greg. Where I am coming from is that there is a massive amount of hypocrisy on this board. Look at all the threads. People talk their mind and it gets dicey, and then the owner kicks in with her two cents, which usually is the rambling of someone who smokes weed, and then sides with whoever can't defend themselves. It doesn't even matter whether they're right or wrong. Her shield seems to get raised when she's been personally offended, and then you get a long, wordy reply, which depending on how much she's been smoking can be very nasty.
As far as you are concerned, I've read some of your posts and they come accross in such a way so as to suggest you're coming from some higher moral ground.
The Carey issue is a special issue, which has been discussed here for a long, long time. Until this week, nobdy truly knew what was going on. I can't speak for anyone but myself and I have to say that what she did is a major disappointment and while Froderick13 upset some people, his underlying message was correct.
Lots worse has been said on this board and I have not ever seen an apology. Why should he be the first?"
On 2003-12-14 18:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Actually Antigen, I don't think you would have taken the money under the same circumstances. It may be the only compliment I'll pay you all night."
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-- Emo Phillips
When Plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in a society, they create for themselves in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
--Fredric Bastiat
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin
On 2003-12-14 18:47:00, GregFL wrote:
I believe the author is Dave Mason.
You should be allowed to do whatever you want with your own person and property, as long as you don't physically harm the person or property of a nonconsenting other.
Peter McWilliams - Ain't Nobody's Business If I Do
On 2003-12-14 18:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
and unless and until he tires of this game he is playing and packs it in, he'll be yanking our chain 24-7.
I believe that human beings arrive on this Earth wanting to know absolutely everything, and the best thing we can do as parents is to get out of the way -- just be there to let them know what opportunities are there
-- Dorothy Werner, media liaison for the National Homeschool Association
On 2003-12-14 19:00:00, Antigen wrote:
"Quote
On 2003-12-14 18:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
and unless and until he tires of this game he is playing and packs it in, he'll be yanking our chain 24-7.
Done did it already, I think. Froderick is an alright guy. Just go back and read some of what he's had to say before the recent flame wars got going. You'll see.I believe that human beings arrive on this Earth wanting to know absolutely everything, and the best thing we can do as parents is to get out of the way -- just be there to let them know what opportunities are there
-- Dorothy Werner, media liaison for the National Homeschool Association
"
Bottom line, the guy isn't just crude, he is delusional (remember the post where he equated himself with being christ-like??) and unless and until he tires of this game he is playing and packs it in, he'll be yanking our chain 24-7.
This is what I was saying Froderik13. You really do owe Carey an apology. I'm sorry, but you have been completely out of line. I read your words, and think to myself, I hope he wouldn't talk to a woman like that in real life. It's actually frightning.
bewilderment as you got involved and helped worsen an situation already out of control.
Carey as the boogie-man to deflect attention away from the self-serving agenda of your alleged cohorts.
Oh, grow up, insult is insult. Frod13 stepped way over the line of appropriateness. You not seeing this throws you in the, "not old enough/mature enough to know better" catagory.
Ginger: I don't see how Carey made any money for WWASP. She took some of their profit and redirected it to, one would assume, housing, feeding, clothing and making Christmas for her sons. If I had a chance to take a few grand from Melvin Sembler without hurting anyone who didn't need hurting I'd jump on it.
I can easily understand how someone in her position might make a mistake in thinking that everyone involved is a bad guy. It is essentially the same reason, I believe, why you have concluded, on spare evidence, that she's a bad woman
On 2003-12-14 20:20:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"QuoteGinger: I don't see how Carey made any money for WWASP.
But what about what she gave them?
"
If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
I understand what you're saying and there is a valid point in what you say, but he's a GREAT noisemaker and considering the informality of the forum I would think it's easily something everyone can live with. Not everyone can be a great wordsmith, and he is thought provoking (in a very good way).
On 2003-12-14 20:24:00, Froderik13 wrote:
Spare evidence??
If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil
deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
Alexandr Solzhenitsyn
On 2003-12-14 20:28:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"QuoteI understand what you're saying and there is a valid point in what you say, but he's a GREAT noisemaker and considering the informality of the forum I would think it's easily something everyone can live with. Not everyone can be a great wordsmith, and he is thought provoking (in a very good way).
Thanks, anon...whoever you are."
On 2003-12-14 19:55:00, Froderik13 wrote:
why is Carey innocent
Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln
On 2003-12-14 20:31:00, Froderik13 wrote:
Not trying to bail on you here Ginger, but I've got to sign off...'night..
On 2003-12-14 20:31:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"Ask not for which you shall never need not brought to the forefront of the pretentious misgivings due to the fact that the flyin rollin doughnut just passed not either in front nor afterwards behind the front end.
"
If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil
deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
Alexandr Solzhenitsyn
On 2003-12-14 20:44:00, Antigen wrote:
"Quote
On 2003-12-14 19:55:00, Froderik13 wrote:
why is Carey innocent
I think we're looking at this whole thing in very different ways. You seem to be looking for the guilty parties to punish and innocent parties to love and protect.
I think none of us are innocent, most are forgivable and even more of us are understandable.
The government is much more interested in preserving the purity of its ideology than it is in allowing patients to get effective medicine.
-- Ethan B. Russo, neurologist at Western Montana Clinic
nobody else knows what you know about this lady (Carey). Well, perhaps you can enlighten the rest of us. If not, then I trust you can understand why some of us prefer to reserve judgment until all the facts are on the table. Which will probably be the 12th of Never.
I think we're looking at this whole thing in very different ways. You seem to be looking for the guilty parties to punish and innocent parties to love and protect.
I think none of us are innocent, most are forgivable and even more of us are understandable.
If we can shed some light on how the whole scam works and how everybody loses, then people won't be so easily taken in by it. That's my whole aim.
Anyway, I said that nobody KNOWS HER like I do.
Frog, when did we ever meet? How do you know me so well? At one point you claim to not be involved with any of this. You were not with Trekers or PURE and had no personal involvment. Now you know me so well, you claim, how.
On 2003-12-15 06:22:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"Quotenobody else knows what you know about this lady (Carey). Well, perhaps you can enlighten the rest of us. If not, then I trust you can understand why some of us prefer to reserve judgment until all the facts are on the table. Which will probably be the 12th of Never.
Clarification: Please take care to read what I write. Not trying to get pissy with you here, but it could save us a little time in the future. I ain't that wordy, so you can surely digest my posts pretty easily. Anyway, I said that nobody KNOWS HER like I do. Not: nobody else knows what I KNOW ABOUT HER. In other words, nobody else was there when that (censored) pissed me off enough to go ahead and start threads like "Carey's Rectum Probed" etc...
"
If quitting drugs means joining the war on terrorism, does this portend the fire bombing of Amsterdamn ?
--Felton Manifestation
Frod, correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe you've got some info I don't and some good reason for keeping it to yourself. But it seems to me that you don't really know Carey at all. All you have is what you've been told by people you trust(ed?). And so you believed it.
On 2003-12-15 11:08:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"I know, I'm a bastard, ain't I? And, I killed three birds:
1. I offended you, which I've been waiting to do.
2. I created a link to the post by anon, which I liked.
3. I bumped up the thread.
I apologize for #3. I promise not to do it again, unless someone posts on that thread.
Whatta ya know?
A pig in a plain brown wrapper
He wanna bring me down
I'll hit that corna
Lemme just warn ya
I'll bring ya ass down
make ya family mourn ya"
Frod, I thought you wanted out of the "carey-sucks-club"? What are you, a liar? Yeah, that must be it
On 2003-12-15 12:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"QuoteFrod, I thought you wanted out of the "carey-sucks-club"? What are you, a liar? Yeah, that must be it
No, just changed my mind...care for a cup of tea?"
On 2003-12-15 13:23:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"So far, she was the only one to call me "Frog." I make sense, asshole. One hell of a lot of sense...how about a cup of tea?"
If you think yourself too wise to involve
yourself in government, you will be governed
by those too foolish to govern.
--Plato
Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following
pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them
general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong,
gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises
at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the
tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason.
Thomas Paine, Common Sense