Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: spots on December 10, 2003, 05:39:00 PM
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On October 13, 2003, at 8:08PM, in a series of responses to blasts about her "snitching", Carey Bock posted on this fourm:
"I have not cashed any check from WWASPS. You better be careful with what you say. My opinions and beliefs are not for sale. Not to anyone. Your accusations are way off base."
Legally, one might argue that handing over more than 7000 private communications, many back-and-forth emails from a list, including the mailings from Ms. Bock, may not reflect her "opinions and beliefs" which she stated were "not for sale". I do not believe this is so. Please note that this statement was made about one month after said emails had already been delivered to WWASPS.
On Tuesday, December 9, 2003, Carey Bock gave a deposition on her complicity in forwarding private emails to WWASPS. A WWASPS attorney flew to Louisiana in September 2003, picked up her hard drive and returned it to Utah where it was copied. The hard drive was then shipped back to Ms. Bock. [Let's see, if her computer was out of commission in the WWASPS offices, how did Ms. Bock write the zillions of posts to the Fornits site? From work? Would the Resource Bank like to know that?]
She initially offered her cache of private information to WWASPS for $100,000, later lowering her asking price to $30,000. She ulitmately settled for $12,500. This money may have saved her house from foreclosure. Sadly, however, the price of Ms. Bock's Judas gold saved not one child from WWASPS...and we can only guess how many other American teens have made the harrowing journey, handcuffed in the night and slung into some stranger's car, toward a future of a couple of years of terror and humiliation and a lifetime of nightmares and anxiety. Ms. Bock sold her soul while thwarting honest and strong efforts by others to get the message to parents that WWASPS' good schooling, strict-but-fair rewards and punishment techniques, and redirection by loving, caring staffers is really a Crock of Shit.
Ms. Bock stated in deposition that she doesn't think WWASPS is bad; she only has a problem with Dundee and they aren't affiliated with WWASPS.
Being a personal victim of Ms. Bock's immorality (my very private email to her one night while my grandaughter was still incarcerated in Casa by the Sea made it to this forum bright and early at 8:30 the next morning), I share with you what she forwarded to the World:
[my email]... Carey, we have "talked" now for a lot of the 9 months my grandaughter has been incarcerated at Casa by the Sea. This is my personal, fervent, non-anonymous plea to back off Teen Help at fornits.
You have your sons back. They have had harm...possibly irrepairable harm...done to them, but they are surviving. You responded personally to me when I "stood up" for you on Bridge to Understanding. I need a pay-back. This is the most heart-felt communication I can make directly to you. Please please please don't continue destroying the voice of Fornits!
In the greater scheme of things, the world doesn't really give a damn about Sue Schepp or PURE or Coldwater. We can hardly get the world to give a damn after they read Tim Weiner's reports, or the London Observer. The small stuff...the details, as it were...you are fighting about, really don't mean squat to the average Kansas cattle rancher or the soccer mom in Florida. The only way to stop this proliferation of "programs" is to make it illegal to do some of the basic things they need to have done: illegal to intercept mail, illegal to halt communications with the outside world (this applies to WWASP as well as all those other "legitimate" programs at strugglingteens.com), illegal to make untutored packets the only form of education, illegal to cut off communications, news, independent and inquisitive learning, illegal to isolate in solitary confinement, illegal to withhold everything from food to letters from home to break spirit, illegal to get full control of a growing, maturing mind and tell it that the parents hate and want to off-load this particular problem for a lot of $$$$.
Get the hell off Fornits for one day and read voyfourms. There are kids, full of swearing and tears, foreigners appalled at what we Americans are allowing to be done to our kids, relatives innocently wondering if Casa may be something bad, something harmful that a brother-in-law has done to his daughter. These people don't give a crap about PURE and the subtrefuge, the hidden/dual personalities, the false postings, the anonymous bickering. You appear to have lost sight of the forest for the trees. You continue to try to focus all these folks in the entire universe on a very small technical issue that The World doesn't want to know, doesn't care to know, and wouldn't think twice about if it did know.
I really for the life of me cannot imagine what motivates you in this crusade. Yes, your kids were hurt. So are others, including mine...the grandaughter who lived with us as a "daughter". We have lost her to a cult, to a cult who preys on mentally-unstable parents like our oldest daughter who was always looking for someone/something to bail her out of one mess after another. Are you after revenge? On WWASP? On your ex? On the anonymous posters promoting WWASP on Fornits (who pretty much shoot themselves in the foot whenever they open their mouths)? No matter. Your crusade is injuring countless others...at the least, the 2200 children still in WWASPS, at the most the decent people who abhor injustice, abuse, and want every human to have a warm nuturing path to adulthood. Somewhere in between are the parents caught in the middle, those who, for unknown reasons having to do with stupidity and looking for an easy way out, paid big bucks, got their kids hurt, and will live with guilt, shame, and anger the rest of their lives.
Allow all these people to do their work. They need to have it done. Your agenda of proving you are right and PURE is wrong pales in comparison to what is at stake. Please don't continue this. If I believed, as some on Fornits, that you have gone over the edge, that your mental accuity is hampered, I wouldn't be writing you. I think you are sincere in your hatred of this evil thing. You can't win this fight alone. Let us all work together, each with his own strengths. Please don't destroy the Fornits forum, which, after all, is called "Teen Help", not Carey's vendetta to lead us all on the only way to salvation.
Sue Kolbo
Rivergait Ranch
Red Bluff, CA
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"Legally, one might argue that handing over more than 7000 private communications, many back-and-forth emails from a list, including the mailings from Ms. Bock, may not reflect her "opinions and beliefs" which she stated were "not for sale". I do not believe this is so. Please note that this statement was made about one month after said emails had already been delivered to WWASPS."
She did not sell her beliefs did she? If she gave wwasp emails and she was paid money for them, then she sold emails not her beliefs.
I am curious Spots, where is your information coming from...Sue Scheff?
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carey either lied here or lied yesterday, which is it? beliefs or emails does it matter?
guilty of her own accusations of others if you ask me. just another one in it for the money!
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I am curious Spots, where is your information coming from...Sue Scheff?
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No.
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i wonder if she was wined and dine by wwasps the night before?
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Spots, you realy should hold your statements until you have read her deposition. Could be you have been given inaccurate information. Consider your source, I have.
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If it is not coming from Sue Scheff, then who is it coming from? Were you there?
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that's what i like, nothing like a cover-up...12,500 is 12,500 for a pay off. nothing more nothing less. or do you want to argue if it was for the emails or computer rental now?
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"beliefs or emails does it matter? "
Yes, it matters, as does the truth.
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If it is not coming from Sue Scheff, then who is it coming from? Were you there? Spots, can you answer the question. If your information did not come from Sue Scheff, then who did it come from?
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just because a person gave a deposition, doesn't constitute it to be truth or gospel. they maybe a habitual lier or truth stretcher...which is it?
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If it is not coming from Sue Scheff, then who is it coming from? Were you there? Spots, can you answer the question. If your information did not come from Sue Scheff, then who did it come from?
Spots, where is your information coming from? Were you there?
Judas betrayed Jesus...are you saying that Sue is your Jesus? If I am not mistaken, the only court case that Carey would be giving a depostion in at this point would be in the case of WWASP vs PURE.
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Jeez, what's up with all this self-righteous indignation? For months Carey has been defending herself against one despictable allegation after another, all based on heresay and innuendo, never fact. At least that is my impression having searched for and not found any factual basis for the very personal (some might say vicious) attacks and accusations made against this woman.
As for the allegations that Carey sold some private emails from a listserve, that information appears to be highly personal, not public, information. Ditto the details surrounding some deposition she gave. Why Spots published this information without revealing her sources, is a question only she can answer. If it is in the public record, why not provide a link so people can read it for themselves and subsequently, form their own opinions?
:wave:
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The lack of security on this forum makes me wary of posting. I'm sure some of my enemies out there will be relieved to hear this. As Bellis says *shrug* I could really care less. I like it here, and it's been real, as they say, but I don't like the idea of my IP address being exploited by some bea-snitch. This board is not worth the risk. Later, folks...
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On 2003-12-10 19:06:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"The lack of security on this forum makes me wary of posting. I'm sure some of my enemies out there will be relieved to hear this. As Bellis says *shrug* I could really care less. I like it here, and it's been real, as they say, but I don't like the idea of my IP address being exploited by some bea-snitch. This board is not worth the risk. Later, folks..."
Oookay, paranoid guy... :roll:
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I wouldn't say it's paranoia after reading this thread..and hearing 'things...' :eek:
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Get the hell off Fornits for one day and read voyfourms
Spots, my sincere thanks to you for spilling the beans. God knows there's enough skulking going on here. What's the link to those forums? I'd like to check them out...Thanks in advance, Fr13
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"Ms. Bock stated in deposition that she doesn't think WWASPS is bad; she only has a problem with Dundee and they aren't affiliated with WWASPS."
Wow, Sue Kolbo for you to make a statment like that, you must have been there. I mean you would not repeat something you heard from someone else, would you? Surely you are quoting what you yourself witnessed Carey saying in her deposition, right? You had to have been there. You would not just take what someone else has told you and repeat it as a fact would you? That really could be damaging to not only yourself, but also to all other parties involved. NO, you had to have been there. You surely are not the kind of person who just blindly trust what someone tells you and then repeats as fact when you really only know what you have been told.
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Fro - the Voy board is down and has been for a long time now. I've given up on it.
Spots is correct in the news provided.
And as for where it came from - could be from any direction on the compas at this point - the word is out.
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Wow, Sue Kolbo for you to make a statment like that, you must have been there. I mean you would not repeat something you heard from someone else, would you? Surely you are quoting what you yourself witnessed Carey saying in her deposition, right? You had to have been there. You would not just take what someone else has told you and repeat it as a fact would you? That really could be damaging to not only yourself, but also to all other parties involved. NO, you had to have been there. You surely are not the kind of person who just blindly trust what someone tells you and then repeats as fact when you really only know what you have been told.
Spots, please don't leave me hanging. Tell me you were there and that you heard Carey say that with your own two ears. Please, tell me you are not posting this information second hand. Please, tell me that you would not post a statement such as the one you posted because someone one else told you so. It is so important that creditability is not lost. I know you are there. I know you are reading these posts...so please post a resonse to my yearning for the truth. Tell me, were you there? Maybe you saw a transcribed court document. Maybe that is how you know what Carey said. I don't think though, that that would be possible, given the time frame.
Tell me were you there?
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On 2003-12-10 20:22:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"I wouldn't say it's paranoia after reading this thread..and hearing 'things...' :eek: "
Frod, if you're hearing about security problems with my site, please tell me whatever you've heard. As far as I know, we've never been hacked so your IP info is not getting out by way of these forums. However, there are dozens of other ways to figure out someone's IP address. Some free email services add an X-Originating-IP header, for example. A direct connection via any IM software will reveal your IP address too.
Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
--Rep. Robert L. Henry, TX December 22, 1914 (quoting Lincoln)
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Nothing you don't already know about..
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The best evidence of whether someone did or did not say certain words attributed to her is to hear the alleged speaker in her own words. Whether the trekkers lists and emails were sold to WWASPS only tangentially concerns Ms. Scheff and the PURE litigation. (One doesn't have to consider oneself to be "Jesus" in order to be the harmed by a person who assists one's adversaries for money).
Carey is a frequent contributor to this forum, and never reticent to reply to all slights (real or imagined).
Accordingly, if you are out there Carey, could you please tell us:
1) Did you provide testimony in a deposition concerning the World Wide Association of Specialty Schools, aka WWASPS (including its affiliated legal entities, or individuals who serve said organizations and entities as owners, shareholders, directors, or employees)?
and
2) Have you at any time accepted any financial compensation in any amount, or other gift, from WWASPS (or any of its affiliated legal entities, or other individuals who serve said organizations and entities as owners, shareholders, directors, or employees) for any reason?
Carey might reasonably respond that the answers to such questions or none of my business, nor anyone else's for that matter.
On the other hand, her silence would testify more conclusively than SPOTS or any other witness or second-hand source possibly could.
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The best evidence of whether someone did or did not say certain words attributed to her is to hear the alleged speaker in her own words.
Ah, if only THAT were true...
Carey is a frequent contributor to this forum, and never reticent to reply to all slights (real or imagined)
Bull-SHIT...
Carey might reasonably respond that the answers to such questions or none of my business, nor anyone else's for that matter.
How would it be not our business if she's violating people's right to privacy under the half-baked guise of "freedom of information?" :flame:
On the other hand, her silence would testify more conclusively than SPOTS or any other witness or second-hand source possibly could.
I agree 100%
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-12-11 09:21 ]
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On 2003-12-11 08:43:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"Nothing you don't already know about.."
What the hell are you talking about?I know that our bodies were made to thrive only in pure air, and the scenes in which pure air is found.
-- John Muir
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On 2003-12-11 08:52:00, scottT wrote:
On the other hand, her silence would testify more conclusively than SPOTS or any other witness or second-hand source possibly could.
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Possibly. On the other hand, if the ppl who claim that Carey's been sued (by whom, they won't say, for what exactly, that's a little sketchy too) then she might also be under advice from her atty or even a court order to not discuss the issue with anyone for any reason.
Now, if this turns out to be the case and the people demanding she say something or be adjudicated guilty know it, well what does that say about them?
Hey, anyone up for a little discussion on relative benefits and pitfalls of pure democracy?
:wink:
The newspaper articles are what really put the nail in the coffin for the local program.
--Claude Greene, Seed spokesman, speaking of the closing of the St Pete Seed, 10/7
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
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You seem to stand up for Carey alot. If she's gonna take info off of this site and send it to someone, especially WWASP, I'd think you would naturally want to demand a little more from our friend Ms. "Tar-Baby" Bock...it makes me wonder..
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-12-11 10:10 ]
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I'm not standing up for Carey, Frod! I don't have any insider info, I only know what's posted here and very little more.
I am, however, suggesting another, equally plausible, explanation for Carey not responding to these questions.
Why are you so sure all these claims are true? I'm not saying I'm sure they're not. Sometimes, the only true and correct answer is "I don't know". This is one of those times.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-- Aristotle
But you seem very convinced. What do you know that I don't? Please share.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those that torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
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Antigen -
Maybe your mistaken as to which law suite she was deposed for. This was in relation to wwasps' action aginst PURE and others; and was primarily about how and when and why she provided her hard drive to wwasp - as well as her relationship to and thoughts about various persons.
Have you any proof, Mz Bock? What Proof Mz Bock? Thats not Proof Mz Bock. Did you know Mz Bock. . ? Are you aware Mz Bock. . .?
Mz Bock has not been suied. Not yet.
The lawyers giving her advice; and taking her to dinner, are wwasp's lawyers; not hers.
She believes they are the 'good guys', and they are looking out for her best intrest.
And she calls us dumb ass parents. . .
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Does anyone know who was actually at this deposition? Obviously Spots quit talking.
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"Maybe your mistaken as to which law suite she was deposed for. This was in relation to wwasps' action aginst PURE and others"
What others are you talking about?
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Could be that her contact with Rep Miller in California went no where, so now she's throwing out (up) new allegations anywhere she thinks :rofl: she has an audience...
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What alligations is she making?
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read her post. Looks like allegations or accusations or whatever. Still no proof of what she is saying is true...and actually I don't care if it is. Carey will do what she feels is right. She's proved that.
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"Still no proof of what she is saying is true...and actually I don't care if it is. "
Anon, really...you don't care about the truth? What then, do you care about?
Spots, why won't you say where your information came from?
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Please wwaspie, everyone here already knows how to distract attention from the real issue by attacking some bogus "straw man". Whether or not SPOTS herself was sitting in the deposition room is utterly irrelevant. The ONLY issue anyone cares about is whether or not Carey did or did not testify that she received $12,500 from WWASPS.
If -- as I requested earlier today -- Ms. Bock herself will say whether she did or did not accept any monetary or other consideration from WWASPS or its satellites, that would be vastly stronger evidence than ANY second or third hand account of her testimony.
Now of course, in the court of public opinion, silence is a form of adoption of the statements made. However, if Ms. Bock would now DENY making such statements in her deposition about receiving money for email records, I can see how it might upset somebody who thought they were shelling out good money to get a witness who can keep the story straight.
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Okay, I'm confused. Was Carey deposed by PURE's lawyers or WWASPS?
Second, what this about a "preliminary injunction" against PURE? Seems to me this is a very significant issue and one which should not be side-stepped and/or brushed under the carpet.
Anyone have a link to the court document that details the specific terms of the preliminary injunction?
Thanks!
:smile:
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No, that really doesn't answer everything either.
Aren't sworn depositions public domain? Can't we see the content and guess for ourselves the beliefs or motivation of various players?
At the bottom of it, going all the way back to May when Carey came over here after being banned from the Treckers' list, was Carey making unpopular statements and observations about Sue and PURE.
Yes, I know that the Treckers' list predates PURE by years. But it also seems plausible that the effort was hijacked by PURE.
And I still haven't gotten any satisfactory answer to my questions about them, either. By your reasoning, this conspicuous silence would constitute affirmation; i.e. there is no difference between WWASP and PURE but the brand names.
If that's the case, why, exactly, should any of us care if one recruiting outfit is suing another, who wins or if Carey managed to extract some financial gain for herself and her kids from the whole deal? From the start, the whole idea was to get the truth out. Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog
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On 2003-12-11 18:03:00, Antigen wrote:
From the start, the whole idea was to get the truth out.
Somehow that idea seems to have gotten lost somewhere. But this is far from demonstrating that the authorities must interpose to suppress these vices by commercial prohibitions, nor is it by any means evident that such intervention on the part of the government is really capable of suppressing them or that, even if this end could be attained, it might not therewith open up a Pandora's box of other dangers, no less mischievous than alcoholism and morphinism.
Ludwig Von Mises
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Supply and Demand. That's what this industry is all about and nobody knows that better than outfits like PURE and WWASPS. For Carey to have profited in some way from her association with either of these 2 groups seems only fair when you consider the self-serving agenda of these two organizations.
:smokin:
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At whose expense though? Fuck that, anon...
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"And she calls us dumb ass parents. . . "
I think she would call you a dumb ass parent if you placed your child in a program...oh wait, maybe she would refer to you as a reformed dumb ass parent. Thats better isn't it?
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Froderik asks: At whose expense though?
I think this from the lead post asnwers your question:
Ms. Bock sold her soul while thwarting honest and strong efforts by others to get the message to parents that WWASPS' good schooling, strict-but-fair rewards and punishment techniques, and redirection by loving, caring staffers is really a Crock of Shit.
[:(}
I personally believe a case can be made that she has been working for wwasp for a very long time. She was a perfict Mole; as her exploits seemed to give her blanket imunity to any and all outragious staments she made aginst anyone and everyone who was doing any good.
I can't get over any thiking person believing at this point, that Mz Bock's actions have anything at all to do with what is True.
Nor can I understand, how anyone who's been involved in this long and tiresome debate, can fail to understand this isn't about PURE. Only one of the many people who were on the Trekkers list has anything to do with PURE. They were ALL sold out.
She rolled over for the big dog, like the whore she is.
You can pat her head and lick her wounds; but you have to expect the rest of the pack is going to have their hackles up.
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God! Thank you. At last someone with the knowledge had the GUTS to just come out and say it with a concise statement that doesn't beat around the bush. Expressed plain and simple. I think that could very well be considered the final word on the subject of Carey Bock.
(Unfortunately though, I know in the back of my mind that some anon or maybe Ginger will come along and say something like "how do we really know that?" or "Where's the proof?")
Fuck it. GUILTY. Can't we just say that for now, and if she isn't, well, the bitch can speak for herself. No more bullshit. No more "Gee, I don't know..." END OF STORY. It's over. Thank you, anon. You are right on time. Goodnight.
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For all of you who want to defend Carey or pretend she didn't sell out, wait, you can get the records. They will be public, soon. Ginger, as a survivor, how in the hell can you defend her actions with 2200 kids still locked up? This isn't about PURE, this is about a bitch that sold out for money. As far as the law suit on Carey, it is coming, this deposition was only to show what an ass Carey Brock really is. This isn't the law suit on Carey. It is coming.
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On 2003-12-11 20:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"For all of you who want to defend Carey or pretend she didn't sell out, wait, you can get the records. They will be public, soon. Ginger, as a survivor, how in the hell can you defend her actions with 2200 kids still locked up? This isn't about PURE, this is about a bitch that sold out for money. As far as the law suit on Carey, it is coming, this deposition was only to show what an ass Carey Brock really is. This isn't the law suit on Carey. It is coming."
Anon, you really are pathetic. Carey does not hold the key to the liberty of 2,200 kids. Their mindless parents do. As for this not being about PURE, you must be joking, right?
:rofl:
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Ginger, I have a question for you. If you were still in a Straight program and someone offered me $12,500 to help their cause on you staying in there, would that be acceptable? Oh, and of course the money went on my kids, does that make it more acceptable? If you can answer this as "yes", then appearantly Straight didn't do much to harm you. She contacted WWASP and offered the info for $100,000 and settled for $12,500. Anyone who doubts this, the records will be available soon. Any survivor I have ever spoken to would never say it was acceptable at any price. All of you backing Carey Brock, remember there are 2200 kids in the WWASP program going to bed tonight terrified. This doesn't count all the other programs and kids that Carey hurt for $12,500. I don't care where the money went, on her kids or up her ass, this is selling out to the devil.
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On 2003-12-11 20:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Froderik asks: At whose expense though?
I think this from the lead post asnwers your question:
Ms. Bock sold her soul while thwarting honest and strong efforts by others to get the message to parents that WWASPS' good schooling, strict-but-fair rewards and punishment techniques, and redirection by loving, caring staffers is really a Crock of Shit.
[:(}
I personally believe a case can be made that she has been working for wwasp for a very long time. She was a perfict Mole; as her exploits seemed to give her blanket imunity to any and all outragious staments she made aginst anyone and everyone who was doing any good.
I can't get over any thiking person believing at this point, that Mz Bock's actions have anything at all to do with what is True.
Nor can I understand, how anyone who's been involved in this long and tiresome debate, can fail to understand this isn't about PURE. Only one of the many people who were on the Trekkers list has anything to do with PURE. They were ALL sold out.
She rolled over for the big dog, like the whore she is.
You can pat her head and lick her wounds; but you have to expect the rest of the pack is going to have their hackles up.
"
Another pathetic post that only underscores why some people believe this is most definitly "all about PURE".
:rofl:
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No Carey doesn't hold the key to their release. She certainly did jeopardize it. Carey isn't that powerful, she is a pathetic human that will get her just dos.
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Anon, you really are pathetic. Carey does not hold the key to the liberty of 2,200 kids. Their mindless parents do. As for this not being about PURE, you must be joking, right?
See I told you it would happen. Does anyone have a gun I could borrow for a minute? I promise to give it right back after I BLOW MY FUKKIN BRAINS OUT!!! Jesus Fucking Christ!!#$%^$%^%&*%$#
Anon, you really are pathetic. Carey does not hold the key to the liberty of 2,200 kids. Their mindless parents do.
So this makes it allright? Hey you know I was just thinking, I've got a few grand laying around...I could donate this $$ to WWASP so they can stay open a little longer..maybe help 'em out with some legal fees too. :skull: :skull:
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PURE is a small, insignificant part of all of this. I am confused as to why they keep being brought up. Did PURE ever receive money for turning over a computer to WWASP? Carey Brock did and wants to say the $12,500 was for the use of her computer for two weeks. As someone stated earlier, how did she continue to post? At work, of course, her employer needs to know what she is doing on the clock. They will, Carey, believe me.
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Another pathetic post that only underscores why some people believe this is most definitly "all about PURE".
Care to explain that statement?
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On 2003-12-11 20:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ginger, I have a question for you. If you were still in a Straight program and someone offered me $12,500 to help their cause on you staying in there, would that be acceptable? Oh, and of course the money went on my kids, does that make it more acceptable? If you can answer this as "yes", then appearantly Straight didn't do much to harm you. She contacted WWASP and offered the info for $100,000 and settled for $12,500. Anyone who doubts this, the records will be available soon. Any survivor I have ever spoken to would never say it was acceptable at any price. All of you backing Carey Brock, remember there are 2200 kids in the WWASP program going to bed tonight terrified. This doesn't count all the other programs and kids that Carey hurt for $12,500. I don't care where the money went, on her kids or up her ass, this is selling out to the devil. "
Anon, did it ever occur to you that the same can be said of the very people you are defending?
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
What is PURE? The opposite of the Devil? I don't thinnnnnnk soooooooo.
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I am not defending or accusing PURE. The only one that seems to get it is Frod. This is about Carey. She sold her soul to the devil. And Ginger says she is a survivor and supports Carey selling out to the devil. Hey Ginger, she might sell your info to Straight next, is that ok??
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On 2003-12-11 21:03:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"Another pathetic post that only underscores why some people believe this is most definitly "all about PURE".
Care to explain that statement?"
No, I do not care to explain that statement. It speaks for itself. Go to bed, F-13 .... tomorrow is another day, and maybe you will wake up to the reality that you have been duped big time.
:wave:
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On 2003-12-11 21:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am not defending or accusing PURE. The only one that seems to get it is Frod. This is about Carey. She sold her soul to the devil. And Ginger says she is a survivor and supports Carey selling out to the devil. Hey Ginger, she might sell your info to Straight next, is that ok??"
Hmm, you seem to be as delusional as Frod. Hell, for all we know, you could be Frod's alter ego.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :
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Nevermind, I caught up...I get it now..and that statement makes no sense at all. In no way did that post imply or otherwise indicate that PURE has anything to do with all of this? What is it gonna take to get past that?
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-12-11 21:22 ]
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It ain't me...check your IP's :lol:
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Why is this about PURE? Anyone know of any money they received from WWASP? Carey Brock did, and that will be proven shortly. All you doubters will see first hand what this crazy bitch is capable of.
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On 2003-12-11 21:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"PURE is a small, insignificant part of all of this. I am confused as to why they keep being brought up. Did PURE ever receive money for turning over a computer to WWASP? Carey Brock did and wants to say the $12,500 was for the use of her computer for two weeks. As someone stated earlier, how did she continue to post? At work, of course, her employer needs to know what she is doing on the clock. They will, Carey, believe me."
For God's sake, quit apologizing for PURE. What the hell has that organization ever done but make money referring kids into programs without due-process? You think those children give a damn what you think? Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:flame:
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"WELL??" :smokin:
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-12-11 21:30 ]
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For the Anon making threats against Carey and taking cheap shots at Ginger and anybody else that isn't buying what you're selling:
You need a serious reality check. But please, bring on the court documents. The truth cuts both ways, pal.
:roll:
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I think I'd like a check pal, not a reality check, but just a check for oh, say $12,500.You can make it out to me.
Nobody's selling anything for anyone to buy, except for CAREY... ::deal::
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-12-11 21:42 ]
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Man, is Froderick bouncing off walls, or what?
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On 2003-12-11 21:40:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"I think I'd like a check pal, not a reality check, but just a check for oh, say $12,500.You can make it out to me.
Nobody's selling anything for anyone to buy, except for CAREY... ::bigsmilebounce:: ::bigsmilebounce:: ::bigsmilebounce:: ::bigsmilebounce::
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Somewhere in another thread I told ya'll I would give WWASP my emails. So why you are now surprised I did, I don't understand. I could have said no and had them subpoened or I could attempt to negotiate with them and have them pay for them. Afterall, I incurred a lot of expense removing my boys from a program that I did not want them in. I chose the later. It was going to cost WWASP one way or another to get them, whether it be incurring legal expenses or paying for the inconvience it caused me. If you have a problem with that...well, its your problem.
When I have more time, I will share with you something else that was uncovered in this depostion. Well briefly let me throw this out there for you. If you found out that your child was in a program that you felt was abusive and if you appealed to the director of that program and hit nothing but rock solid walls only to find out later that this same person who refused to help you to protect your child from further abuse by making a statement that could be used in court would not do so, but then was more than willing to help PURE by providing them with a statement, a company that places kids in these risky programs (adults that is, a business, not children who are or who had been subjected to abuse, but adults making money off of this business) would you start to question the motives and the story of that director?
Just and FYI, there is a lot more to that (the director's involvment) which you will be seeing more of in the future. That is not over...she was responsible for the wellbeing of my kids for approximately 5 months of their 7 month stay at Dundee. If she knew about the proported abuse and did not report it...she is just as guilty as those commiting the abuse. She is also responsible for the months after my boys returned home and the fact that they were afraid of being sent back.
Is she hooking up with Sue because she wants to stay in the "teen help" business because she too has the potential for earnings therein? Is it really about abuse with these people or is about something else?
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Very funny, jackass. :roll:
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Frod is the only one that seems to get this. Carey sold out. Why would wwasp even know about her computer? She called and told them and offered to sell the info. It was never a question of them trying to subpeona her computer. Another Carey fantasy.
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On 2003-12-11 21:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why is this about PURE? Anyone know of any money they received from WWASP? Carey Brock did, and that will be proven shortly. All you doubters will see first hand what this crazy bitch is capable of."
This is about PURE because PURE is one of the defendants in the cause of action. Carey is neither a defendant nor a plaintif, just a witness. She's not the only witness, either. Other ppl, some who ya'll are defending, have or will also be deposed, provide information and give testimony.
To draw a comparison to Straight, this would be like if Straight sued LIFE for trademark infringement; badmouthing them in order to lure clients away. If that had happaned and sombody managed to liberate a few thousand dollars from either party, why the hell should I care?
That didn't happen, though. But Fred Collins managed to squeeze a quarter mil or so out of them. And what did he do with it? Did he hang around and spend it all shutting down the program? Providing counceling for program clients? Fuck no! He was smart about it. He spent it getting a good education. Go Fred!!! He'll always be a hero of mine.
Frankly, I hope WWASP and PURE remain so utterly obsessed with this bullshit case that they both break their respective banks and the principle players all drive themselves over the edge psychologically and show their asses for all the world to see.
Carey has very little to do with any of it. She's the only player who actually rescued kids from WWASP and then did NOT ship them off to yet another program. That is what PURE does, you know. They recruit parents away from WWASP and directs them, for a fee, to places like Glacier Mountain Academy, Sorenson's Ranch
School, Red Rock Canyon School, Oak Ridge
Military Academy, Safe Harbor Haven, New Horizons Youth Ministries, The Whitmore Academy. Any others?
That's what the cause of action is all about and that's what Carey and all the other witnesses are being deposed about.
What a distressing contrast there is between the radiant intelligence of the child and the feeble mentality of the average adult.
-- Sigmund Freud
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I'm with you Ginger. All this character assasination going on against Carey is just stupid. I have been deposed before, and if anyone else here understands the process, it is seldom voluntary.
In any event, Carey is not PURE, not WWASP, not Straight, not Elan. Why all the attention on her? sometimes I come to this board and leave after onlyt a minute, shaking my head in disbelief over the venomous and confrontational attitudes I see here. In fact, many remind me of the worst of the program...don't agree? COME DOWN ON YA TIME!!!!
...to disarm the people (is) the best and most effective way to enslave them...
-- George Mason
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Ginger-where did you go to law school? You really don't get the case at all, do you? Your assumptions are way off base. Remember to prove a case, you need facts not hearsay and that is all Carey has. Even in her deposition. which was on video, you can see Carey had no proof. Only hearsay and sometimes the hearsay was 3rd or 4th party. Just wait for the video. Forget the transcripts, you will enjoy seeing Scary Carey going a big coo=koo. Don't take my word for it, Carey said she talks to you, ask her for a copy.
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Hey anon - You must be working for PURE... ::bigsmilebounce::
Only kidding, of course...
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-12-12 08:53 ]
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For any of you who would like to know where Spots and the other anon's information was coming from, it was coming from Sue. She was the only other person there besides me and the two attorney's.
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-12-12 08:53 ]
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Yes, it seems Froderick and his cohorts are beating the wrong drum. Oh wellllll. Monkey see, Monkey Do. They will wise up soon enough, because the truth is marching on (and rolling right over these hapless fools!)
:smile:
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Let me ask you this...why should we trust Carey any more than Sue Scheff? Hmmm.....?
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Ginger-where did you go to law school? You really don't get the case at all, do you? Your assumptions are way off base. Remember to prove a case, you need facts not hearsay and that is all Carey has.
Then why all the worry about my depostion?
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-12-12 08:57 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-12-12 08:59 ]
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Why are you talking about yourself in the 3rd person? SLAP! SLAP!
Oh, that's funny. You just edited it. Ok, I take back the slaps..
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-12-12 08:59 ]
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http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#28250 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3827&forum=9#28250)
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What am I misunderstanding, Anon?
Here's the complaint
http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/wwasp/ ... cv0005.pdf (http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/wwasp/WvPURE/202cv0005.pdf)
Now, I never claimed any legal training. And I do understand that, very often, terms of art in legal proceedings don't mean the same thing as the same words or phrases do in normal speech. But this damned sure looks to me asif WWASP is suing PURE for badmouthing them to customers in order to draw business away from them.
Frod, I don't think Carey's asking anyone to trust her. Do you? Can you tell me why I should hate her?
The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this.
--Albert Einstein, My First Impression of the U.S.A., 1921
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WWASP is suing PURE for badmouthing them to customers in order to draw business away from them.
Ok, this is beside the point, for the 1000th time.
Frod, I don't think Carey's asking anyone to trust her. Do you?
Gee, I don't know. WTF?? Of course she is. She attempts to validate herself here, but the shit ain't flushing.
Can you tell me why I should hate her?
Pardon me, but who the fuck said anything about hating her? LMAO...She is detestable for being a snitch, but I never asked you to hate her. Have you had yuor coffee yet?
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WWASP is suing PURE for badmouthing them to customers in order to draw business away from them.
Ok, this is beside the point, for the 1000th time.
Frod, I don't think Carey's asking anyone to trust her. Do you?
Gee, I don't know. WTF?? Of course she is. She attempts to validate herself here, but the shit ain't flushing.
Can you tell me why I should hate her?
Pardon me, but who the fuck said anything about hating her? LMAO...She is detestable for being a snitch, but I never asked you to hate her. Have you had your coffee yet?
(please go ahead and delete the anon post prior to this one)
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-12-12 11:06 ]
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Ginger-where did you go to law school? You really don't get the case at all, do you? Your assumptions are way off base. Remember to prove a case, you need facts not hearsay and that is all Carey has. Even in her deposition. which was on video, you can see Carey had no proof. Only hearsay and sometimes the hearsay was 3rd or 4th party. Just wait for the video. Forget the transcripts, you will enjoy seeing Scary Carey going a big coo=koo. Don't take my word for it, Carey said she talks to you, ask her for a copy."
Ginger, you were in the program, like me, and when someone is FOS, I can smell it a mile away. :flame:
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-12-12 13:41 ]
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Frod, I think your reality check just bounced. Yes, I went through the program. No, it didn't impart to me any special awareness or psychic ability to spot dishonesty. It only made me accutely aware that life's not fair, sadism is a lot more widespread than I had formerly thought and that there's a fool born every minute.
You don't have any special, supernatural ability to determine which of the conflicting parties here are telling the truth. If you have info that I don't have, again I ask, please share. That's the only thing likely to influence my opinion on anything. Browbeating and ad hominem attacks will not.
Ok, so I did gain from my program experience a high threshhold for that kind of bullshit. It just doesn't effect me anywhere near as much as it does most people.
Unless they've hacked my server, nobody's gotten any information from it that's not readily available to the public. To my knowledge, no one has hacked my server.
In all seriousness, though, some folks seem determined to drag me into this if at all possible. If I were you and you have any private messages that you wouldn't want the jaberwocks to have, I'd go and delete them. If they subpeona the data, I'd probably have to deliver it. Even if I refused, they could subpeona my hosting provider.
Finally, I've talked to a LOT of people, Frod! I'll talk to you if you want. When I firs heard about PURE, the very fist thing I did before even finishing looking over the website was to call up Sue Scheff and have a chat with her. When Carey came along and I had more questions than it would have been practical to ask and have answered in writing, why I asked for her number and rang her up. I'll also do phone interviews for damned near any book author, journalist or anyone else interested in my experience or viewpoints. I'm just not shy that way.
Maybe YOU should have given Carey a call back in May when all this bullshit started. Then you'd have had another pov on the whole story right from the beginning.
The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
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On 2003-12-12 08:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ginger-where did you go to law school? You really don't get the case at all, do you? Your assumptions are way off base. Remember to prove a case, you need facts not hearsay and that is all Carey has. Even in her deposition. which was on video, you can see Carey had no proof. Only hearsay and sometimes the hearsay was 3rd or 4th party. Just wait for the video. Forget the transcripts, you will enjoy seeing Scary Carey going a big coo=koo. Don't take my word for it, Carey said she talks to you, ask her for a copy."
Isn't anybody even remotely curious who posted this information? Especially since the only people at the deposition according to Carey, were herself, Sue Sheff, and the 2 attorneys. Since it's obvious Carey didn't make the post, that leaves Sheff and the 2 attorneys. Hmmm. Something tells me this is a BIG BOO-BOO .... unless there is some other logical explanation???
:scared:
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On 2003-12-12 05:33:00, Carey wrote:
"Somewhere in another thread I told ya'll I would give WWASP my emails. So why you are now surprised I did, I don't understand. I could have said no and had them subpoened or I could attempt to negotiate with them and have them pay for them. Afterall, I incurred a lot of expense removing my boys from a program that I did not want them in. I chose the later. It was going to cost WWASP one way or another to get them, whether it be incurring legal expenses or paying for the inconvience it caused me. If you have a problem with that...well, its your problem.
When I have more time, I will share with you something else that was uncovered in this depostion. Well briefly let me throw this out there for you. If you found out that your child was in a program that you felt was abusive and if you appealed to the director of that program and hit nothing but rock solid walls only to find out later that this same person who refused to help you to protect your child from further abuse by making a statement that could be used in court would not do so, but then was more than willing to help PURE by providing them with a statement, a company that places kids in these risky programs (adults that is, a business, not children who are or who had been subjected to abuse, but adults making money off of this business) would you start to question the motives and the story of that director?
Just and FYI, there is a lot more to that (the director's involvment) which you will be seeing more of in the future. That is not over...she was responsible for the wellbeing of my kids for approximately 5 months of their 7 month stay at Dundee. If she knew about the proported abuse and did not report it...she is just as guilty as those commiting the abuse. She is also responsible for the months after my boys returned home and the fact that they were afraid of being sent back.
Is she hooking up with Sue because she wants to stay in the "teen help" business because she too has the potential for earnings therein? Is it really about abuse with these people or is about something else?
"
If it was my child, I would be upset, too, and see nothing wrong with getting to the bottom of any of this. After all, you are their parent and have every right to demand an explanation. It's as simple as that.
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From: "Amberly Knight"
>To: "Director"
>Subject: Dundee News Update
>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:03:52 -0600
>
>Dear Parents and Friends,
>
>I have recently been presented with some different options in my life, and I have made the very difficult decision of leaving Dundee Ranch to pursue these other options. I feel very blessed to have had the opportunity to meet so many of you and to work with your teens. I want you to know how much I love you and support you. I believe in the program because of the changes I have seen in so many lives. You are giving them the opportunity of the lifetime, and I applaud your courage and commitment to their change.
>My co-directors, Joe Atkin and Kenny Wilson, will be assuming my responsibilities. Joe has been here since the program opened. Kenny has
>four years of experience with the program in Carolina Springs. I have full confidence in their abilities to continue improving things here at Dundee Ranch. I will miss you all. Best luck to you now and in the future.
>
>Love,
>Amberly
>Amberly Knight
>Director, Academy at Dundee Ranch
>011-506-428-7000 x 28
Obviously, adminstering care and treatment for a large population of troubled youth is a job that requires specialized training and considerable expertise. What is the background of Ms. Knight and is she still involved in the teen-help industry?
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You up there
its on tape at the request of your (wwasps) lawyer.
Being on tape greatly increases the potential numbers of eyewitnesses.
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shut up!!!!!!!