Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: shaneunc on May 21, 2002, 01:32:00 PM
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Shane,
You give a very confusing message. These sites exist not because some meglamaniac existed, and not because overt child abuse occured in some situations. These were negatives, for sure, but the real, down dirty, low down truth, is that the entire modality was abusive. If Newton never abused anyone personally, if no one was ever thrown to a concrete floor, the inhumanity of going thru Thought reform as a teenager would be enough to support all of these message boards, and more.
You see, Shane, you say you deserved to be in Straight. Since you won't speak up for yourself, I will. You did not. You may have needed help with a substance abuse problem, and Straight may have provided you a vehicle to temporarily stop abusing substances, but you never deserved the inhumanity of the seedstraightkids, Inc. modality. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here either.
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Greg,
Your comments echo in eternity! It is because of this abusive modality, I wish to attend the conference coming up in St. Pete. For I was unaware of Straight's continued existence, (just under a different name), and I feel determined to do everything in my power to prevent anyone else from ever having to endure the abuse which all of us endured to varying degrees.
Shane, you may feel as though you "deserved" Straight, or even feel Straight "saved" you from uncertain doom. The point here is your treatment plan should have been an individual one, not one which involved the same treatment plan for all.
Sure, Straight may have really helped you change the life you were living, but isn't it also possible if you or your family had seeked an actual professional in Drug Addiction and Treatment, you might have achieved the same results, without the abuse you more than likely received from Straight?
I know for me I had never used drugs before going into Straight, but I sure used them after I got out. They introduced me into a world which I had never even known existed, and since I felt I had to be such a part of the "group" after "copping-out", I had to see what they were talking about. And thus my introduction to the drug world. Now here 15 years later I begin to understand, from people like Wes Fager, had Mel Sembler and Newton been stopped in Florida where they should have been stopped, I might never have had to go through my experience, and neither would of you Shane. It is this reason I am determined to do what it takes to expose these places for what they really are.
I hope you will be able to make it to the conference Shane, for I am now more than ever determined to attend.
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While, yes, I agree that the modality is abusive, I don't think that the modality is solely the cause of all the abuses that went on at KIDS or Straight or AARC or even the still-operational offshore boot camps.
We also have to look at Newton who took this Modality he helped develop ion Straight and take it to a MORE abusive level in creating KIDS.
The bitter group staff certainly did not help, as they took their power and took out some of that bitternes on group members in various ways (denial of needs, physical abuses, restraints, humiliations, etc.)
So is KIDS (the entity) at fault? Yes.
How about Newton himself? Surely.
And the staff members? Some of them, yeah, as well as certain bitter (usually FoS) oldcomers, as well.
It almost looks like a vortex spiral in my mind, and it had to be stopped before another person died as a result...
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exactly. The "theraputic Community" modality, as practiced in Seedstraightkids, Inc. fosters and environment that encourages individuals to heap abuse on top of the already inhumane conditions that the kids are subject too, like sleep & food deprivation, denial of basic needs,shame, humiliation, public confessions, etc, etc. You can't blame anyone individual, as they were all complicit, and in fact, as captives, some of us did things we are not proud of.
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Shane ~ I felt I needed to comment on how you put ," I DESERVED to be there ".Because I have a brother who was in Kids that feels the same,but what you and him don`t get is you DESERVED help and SeedStraightKids Inc. was not the only thing out there for you.Thousands of people were in your same position and went to all different rehabs in the country.One of the things about the program was they wanted us to feel that they were THE ONLY PLACE that could help !And that was more of the brainwashing shit.You did need help{not that I know you}but there was another way.And as someone else wrote if you got the help you needed you would not be at this site right now.
My brother looks at it as a wash , he feels it saved his life. But I see how his 5+ year stay has negativitly effected his life as well,it`s very sad. And he feels he "DESERVED" it as well.
I thank you for your post and hope you are well today and always.
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I`m glad to hear that you see it a bit differently.I hope for much more healing for you and all. Your open heart will help you heal.
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Shane, you were never a nobody or a loser. You were a kid who'd made mistakes and, aparently, needed help finding your way back. But you did it. You learned from your experience and found your feet despite the abuse.
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You people are unbelievable!
GregFL
Antigen
Anonymous
infanalyst
This guy Shane pops in to share his expierience and you all want to tell him that it was something different that what he daclared to us that it was.
You are all so wrapped up in how victimized you were you cant see straight.
I think you types are the sickest of all.
Shane needed help. He got it. He is better for it. You want to deny him that! All so that you can further your agenda of hate and vengance.
Your attitudes bring people down. Why wouldnt you just want to accept his statement and his experience?
Have you vere heard the saying "misery loves company"? Thats you! God forbid anyone ever experienced these programs and walked away better for it.
Shane, dont join in the pity party.
You were a looser nobody and now you are not.
These people here are victims and thats all they want to be.
It is easy to be a victim. It takes no effort. Dont let them turn you into one too.
Oh, and for my critics, think what you want but the truth is no less because you think little of who speaks it.
tt
P.S. nobody gets the "little head" bit?
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interesting post, fartoogone.
I don't think anybody said that his experience was any different than he experienced it, only that he was not worthless and did not deserve to be thrown into the snakepit called seedstraightkids, inc.
I stand by that, and have no real opinion on what you said, only to point out that your statement is incorrect, and you seem to be the only possessor of venom thru this whole thread.
Victim? no, not today, but yes, in the past. Advocate? yes. That is how I see it. My experience happened 29 years ago and is now but bad memories. I am here to help people deal with their childhood demons and to help prevent today's children from going thru it, along with opening the eyes of the public to the horrors of the drug war against american citizens.
Why are you here?
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Wow! What a lunatic. Betty? Mel? That you guys? Fartoogone is right. What ARE you doing here. If there is anything more pathetic then a "pity party" then it is a lonely bored angry person who has nothing better to do then read about a "pity party" that does not even involve them! Why if you are so rightous and happy is your screenname so doomed and sad? Go to a meeting and use your 12th step there, thanks, we are fine without your input. smooches :wink:
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blaaa blaaaa blaaaaaaa
If the shoe fits...............
tt
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Now your making sheep noises....
You are an interesting character, but I still don't understand your purpose here. Maybe you can enlighten me as I am genuinely interested. I mean, you are as welcome as anyone, irrespective of your opinion, but I fail to see what your point is other than to argue and degrade other posters. If you want to debate something, bring an opinion to the table, not just a slam of other people. There are those of us whom would love to hear what you stand for.
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Oh those are sheep noises I was confused.
Thank God the program did not do that to me. I would rather have PSTD!! :grin:
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Greg - Whoever this person is, he/she could be experiencing guilt and shame. Or maybe he/she is reaching out because they're possibly still in denial about something that's happened to them in the past.
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fartoogone sed: "Why wouldnt you just want to accept his statement and his experience?"
Cause it pains me so to see someone carry around any little bit of the baggage that rightly belongs at Fr. Cashin's feet. Now there's a pathetic loser if ever there were one!
Folks, I don't know exactly who fartoogone is. But the name first popped up on Kim's KIDS board. As far as I know, he's only ever posted anonymously. I suspect he might be one of those utterly sick individuals who's still running mini groups secretly in NJ. So I can understand why he maight want to remain anonymouse; the NJ state prosecutor would certainly pursue criminal charges against them if they could find them.
Sleep well, fartoogone. Soon come de day when your neighbors, who probably think you're a little strange but don't know the half of it, will readily recognize you for what you are. Then where will you hide?
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fartoogone sed: "Why wouldnt you just want to accept his statement and his experience?"
Cause it pains me so to see someone carry around any little bit of the baggage that rightly belongs at Fr. Cashin's feet. Now there's a pathetic loser if ever there were one!
Folks, I don't know exactly who fartoogone is. But the name first popped up on Kim's KIDS board. As far as I know, he's only ever posted anonymously. I suspect he might be one of those utterly sick individuals who's still running mini groups secretly in NJ. So I can understand why he maight want to remain anonymouse; the NJ state prosecutor would certainly pursue criminal charges against them if they could find them.
Sleep well, fartoogone. Soon come de day when your neighbors, who probably think you're a little strange but don't know the half of it, will readily recognize you for what you are. Then where will you hide?
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"Welcome to the United States Prime Time Victim Show. You love to be a victim. You love to feel scared. Makes you want to run out and buy a gun."
- Al Jourgensen, "Gila Copter" by Revolting Cocks
Now what does this mean? Not very bloody much. The "lyrics" (The tune is more prose against an industrial soundscape more than anything) just floated across my brain while reading this thread.
But fartoogone is 100% right. Victims are victims because they choose to remain victims. They did not choose to BECOME victims, only STAY victims.
My daughters mom (PTUI!) is that way. She was molested by her father as a young child. Horrible actions. The man should be tortured, in my eyes. A slow painful death.
However, she refuses to move on with her life beyond the molestation. Everything in her life that is negative isn't her fault. It's either someone else (Me, her ex-husband, her father, her mother, her brother, her mother, grandparents, boss, etc.) or it's because she is head-fucked because of the molestation.
Granted, she's head-fucked, and I'm sure that's due at least in part to her fucked-up childhood. She's got vision like a coal miner trapped in a mine by a landslide: NONE. She claims to put her children first, but does she make either of them clean their rooms or do homework & chores or teach them or read to them? No....
She's a victim, remember? So if her children (one of whom is the fruit of my loins) turns out to be like any of us, it's because she was a pisspoor parent, which can be blamed on her childhood.
Bullshit.
If she's a pisspoor parent, it's because she chose to be a pisspoor parent, PERIOD.
And if you are still wallowing in the pathetic "victim" mode, then you deserve the unhappy life you're going to lead.
Move the fuck forward people. We're no longer under the control of Newton. You are his victim no longer.
The goal now is to prevent Newton (who is probbably a victim of some lame-assed bullshit himself) from making victims out of any more youth.
Nobody knows more what this fuckwit Newton is capable of doing to our youth than us.
Just like being a victim this, too, is a choice. And those who make the choice to ignore or forget or whatever, that's y'all's right.
Not everyone wants to be an activist. Not everyone wants to make the world better. That's individualism, and that's what's beautiful about this country.
Blah. Before I go into a patriotic rant (which is longer than any anti-Newton rant I could ever conjure up) I'll shut the fuck up and save some server space for someone else who may or may not have anything intelligent, poignant, timely or funny to add.
Go Kings. Sunday's the day.
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john -fartoogone is not correct. If the victims remained silent and moved on with their lives, These child-abusers have already won, and more victims are easier to obtain. Discussion boards that allow victims to vent their past, are a great learning tool for those that know little or nothing about this problem. It's all about educating the sheeple. I question your reasons for stifling the truth. Brainwashing is a terrible thing.
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Those that do not learn from the past, are doomed to repeat it. - ?
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final comments from me.
John, good post, and it brings us back to the point I originally made, you may have needed help, but you didn't deserve the inhumanity of straight. Good tho that you got your life straightened out.
There has been a lot of posturing about a victim mentality. Funny, I have met a lot of the people whom post here personally, and I know of not one person running around blaming their adult problems on the program at this juncture. I do know people whom are interested in setting the record straight (pun intended) and exposing the program and the drug war for the fraud they are.
I will say that for years I had problems, shame, anger and family problems, left over from my time in the program, but I have worked thru these as best I can and years and years ago moved on. Like you, John, I wouldn't discuss it but instead chose to bury it in a safe place in my mind. A couple years I ago worked thru my remaining issues connected to it, much like you are doing now.I post here for several reasons, none of them have anything to do with me being a victim. The people whom think that about the posters on these sites are missing the big picture and perhaps have an agenda of their own to push that they aren't being forthcoming about.
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Sorry, replace john with Shane in my post above, both places.
[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2002-06-01 13:51 ]
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Sometimes, when dealing with a mind-bender like this, it's instructive to look at a parallel situation.
I'm reading Gulag Archipalego right now. I can say that, while none of these programs were ever quite as bad as Stalinis Russia, it's only a matter of degrees. And I can easily imagine that Miller Newton, if fate had put him in the place and time of Joseph Stalin would have behaved very similarly and the outcome might have been very similar.
So what would be the honorable, heroic or at least respectable thing for a former Soviet citizen to do right now in this day and age?
Go through life hiding and denying whatever they did and believed under the Soviet regime? What for? Look to some imagined authority to get revenge and make right what can't possibly be undone? I suppose some have done that, but I've never heard of it. Pretend it wasn't all that bad? Madness!
How about this:
- Document what happened as best they can, compare notes among themselves and with other people with whom they were not able to communicate under the regime. That way they might figure out just where fate has landed them, what their options are.
- Pick a direction to take from where they are to where they'd like their grandchildren to be and start moving.
- Try to salvage as much as they can from the ruins of their culture, learning from other cultures what they can to fill in the gaps.
- Try to give the rest of the world a heads up where they see similar mistakes in progress.
No doubt, a lot of people suffered great loss because of these programs. Speaking for myself, I know I'll never have back the time lost and I'll never know what would have been. Maybe we would have gone along, moderately normal and functional and now I'd be one of those SAFE parents worrying about my son after months of not seeing him and frightened to ask 'inapropriate' questions or to talk to people who are critical of the Program. Maybe we would all have been one big, happy family and gotten snuffed in a plane wreck on a family vacation... no tellin'.
All I do know is where I am now and I can't complain. There's no denying that I'm angry about what happened. But not anywhere near enough to waste any time thinking about it. For almost 20 years, I thought The Seed was pretty much all there was left of the cult and they were just an insignificant, weird little cult in Ft. Lauderdale. I have no problem living with that, laughing at Seedlings on the rare occasion that I might see them, but not really bothered by it.
The only reason I spend any time or effort working on these websites, conferences and related projects is that the criminals who hurt my family are not only still doing the same thing to other families, they have literally infiltrated our government and, in my opinion, have placed the very republic at great risk.
Think that sounds paranoid? That's what I used to think when I read stuff like The Governor's Sub-rosa Plot to Subvert an Election in Ohio (http://www.ips-dc.org/projects/drugpolicy/ohio.htm)
No foolin. We are cursed with having information about these criminals, these traitors. Although American civic tradition does not require any citizen to report crime under most circumstances or to act as police, it does rely on each of us to act in our own perceived self interest. These people were dangerous as hell when all they had at their disposal was a warehouse and a slick sales pitch. How dangerous do you suppose they are with significant resources of the Federal, state and local governments at their disposal?
I'm glad America is nowhere near, not even comperable to, the horror that was the Soviet Union. But if you think it can't happen here, we're halfway there.
[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2002-06-01 18:38 ]
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On 2002-05-29 20:02:00, GregFL wrote:
Now your making sheep noises....
You are an interesting character, but I still don't understand your purpose here.
Ze's a troll, a troll is defined as an internet entity/person who deliberately tries to cause problems on boards and mailing lists and chat rooms. Ignore hir.
Honestly, when fartoogone actually has something actually well thought out to say, I'll most likely miss it, as I've stopped paying attention long ago. Look at how ze managed to derail this thread.
-Trish
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FARTOOGONE IS SOMEONE THAT IS STILL FOR MILLERS CAUSE TO ABUSE AND HURT OTHERS. HEY FARTOOGONE TAKE YOUR FOOLISH OPINIONS AND SHOVE THEM SO FAR UP YOUR FUCKING ASS
THANKS TRISH