Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Aaron3 on November 21, 2003, 02:12:00 PM
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Ya know, when I was in Straight DC from 89-90, none of the really bad shit that I read about in these forums happened. I read that in the early 80's girls were threatened with being gang banged for misbehaving. (my problem in there was wishing I could randomly screw every good looking girl in the place so I would have gladly sat on the girls side for a couple of weeks!) BUT I damn sure wouldn't feel that way if I was a 15 year old girl in the middle of the guys side!
I also read that people were starved and beaten up and totally humiliated in group for just being normal kids. That is fucked up. No wonder everybody is so pissed off at the place. I would be too. In fact, I may have destroyed my life trying to track the bastards down after I got out.
My heart goes out to those who went through that kid of stuff.
Of course I still want to randomly screw every good looking woman I see but at least I can't get started over for expressing it! Or spit on or restrained! God ain't freedom wonderful!!
Sincerely,
Serious Nutball!
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I think it's a matter of perspective. The Program really was different from one location or time to another. I saw changes in attitude and intensity between St. Pete and Sarasota and in Sarasota over time. But I didn't "see" exactly the same thing as anyone else who was there. I think that's one of the effects of not being allowed to talk or even think about what was going on from day to day.
I did see girls put on guys' side several times. I'm sure people yelled all kinds of horrible, degrading and threatening things. Something like that wouldn't have made much of an impression on me because I looked at the whole thing as nothing but theatre intended to manipulate us into changing our behavior and thinking. I knew they didn't really mean that they were going to let the guys' side gang bang the girl. I thought everyone understood that.
But, to someone who didn't know going in what it was all about, that would be a terrifying experience, shocking, thought stopping and extremely harmful psychologically and emotionally. I didn't get out of it completely unscathed. But I think I had an advantage that some others didn't have. So I didn't "see" a lot of abuse going on, either. Even the time I got sat on, I believed they wouldn't let it go so far as permanent injury. So the same incident didn't have anywhere near the effect on me that it did on some people.
I understand that the Virginia location was way tamer than St. Pete or Sarasota at first. But several different people who hadn't even done acid before have reported haleucinating in group. The worst abuse was going on inside people's heads. You couldn't see it happening. I think it's real likely that you'll run into people who were there with you and who view the same experience very differently than you do.
You know, if Mama Cass Elliot would have shared that damn sandwich
with Karen Carpenter, they would both still be alive today!!!!!!!
--chongo
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Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
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Hey!
No Shit! When I first went in to Straight in May of 88, it was lunch time and a huge ass food fight broke out- guys against girls. The entire place seemed to be on the floor. Peoples backs actually made holes in the walls as people were being slammed and restrained. Now I then realized to myself that joining the Army and going thru basic training really does not look all that bad. Also, a few shots and a couple of bong hits really seemed to be a good coping situation at that precise moment but instead I probabley said W T F at the time and then was handed someones leg or arm to hold onto.....i dunno don't remember really or i may have had a hand slapped over my mouth which I am sure I didn't care much for. Then before ya knew it, we were all sitting in harmony once again singing "Straight Is It" and feeling nothing but love in the air. Yeah I pretty much wanted to nail every girl in the place! Wasn't it John Higby that used to sing "Guyside" Slayer version? Wonder whatever happened to him? I dunno how I even made it thru the place.....I delt with it by screamming to the point that no one including myself knew what I was saying and I also took time out in my busy day to play headgames about rules and if I was really honest. I mean was I honest about my headgames or if I was breathing heavier then normal or was I trying to give myself a headrush? Oh God, Did I just relapse on the side of group with my breathing motives? Should I make an amends for having a wet dream about a girl 5th phaser? Or should I report myself to staff because I probabley had a motive of rape in my dream.....or was it just normal to have a wet dream at age 15 where you could hardly ever even masturbate unless you had 2 or 3 newcomers hanging on to the side of a shower rod? What is a normal wet dream? Is there a wet dream with a criminal motive? I should have been started over for the dream was "MUST HAVE" been pre planned in my subconscience while standing on the side of group which meant that I at some point for at least a second or two got in my head and must have not cared about my group which made me basically a druggie wanting to sell all the newcomers heroin. Started over 7 and 21.....Back To The Front!!!! This is often how my head was pretty much til I graduated. It rarely stopped. I have never had a dream like the ones I used to have in there. I actually cried and felt so guilty about that dream. I could not decide in my mind if I did something wrong or not with that dream. But, I am still sober and I am alive and doing fairly well in life. Don't play as many headgames but, I occasionally still look up at the shower rod looking for all the hands hanging on when I am in the shower......kidding! Aaron, God Damn do you remember when I came into group on 4th phase all fucked up because I was at the Springfield Mall with my parents and I went into the arcade to play a video game and there was a fuzzy on the joystick and I touched it and made myself think that I just touched a leaf of pot......I ran away from my parents Crying violently through the crowded mall trying to find the exit so I could get back to Straight so I could tell the group that I should be started over. Damn, I miss that shit! NOT!! Now , I do truely believe that if a person was in there that did have a problem w/drink or drug and attempted to be as honest as they possibly could and had a desire to get sober, they could get some sort of help thru something even if it was just a time slot of being away from our own choices (it saved me) and being introduced to the steps and eventually AA. I remember an oldcomer asked me if it was wrong that he masturbated that day while on his lunch break at work.....he got set back when he told group...but, shit we were all a bunch of highly hormoned young teens still trying to go through puberty. After he got set back a girl stood up and started talking about this specific time in here past when she was fucking her druggie boyfriend and how disgusted and dirty she felt about it...meanwhile the entire guysides dicks are poking the persons head infront of them while they are all trying to figure out how they can jerk off in their pants with out being noticed or set back. That kind of shit was just rediculous. I don't ever remember seeing anyone getting starved in there or not being allowed to sleep at night...none of us got enough sleep. What the hell, I got set back because I found cigarettes and money and I think pot in a host home.....I deserved that punishment...why did I get set back? Because I played a headgame when I was asked in how many seconds did it take for me to get my newcomers out of that room? I couldn't decide wether I got them out that second or if 5 seconds may of passed before I removed the 1st phasers from the room....meanwhile the oldcomer copped out that night from where we were staying...Me, I got a big shiney set back for 2 weeks!!!! My stay there was very much like 17 and ahalf months of Disney World. Til this day I avoid the aisle in the grocery store that has peanut butter. Is there anyone in here that is sober other then myself and the big A.? Just curious??
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wow!!!
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Is there anyone in here that is sober other then myself and the big A.? Just curious??
I'm still sober. 11/28 will be twenty three years. I don't attend AA though. Never had a desire to stay in a group setting after I left in April 1984.
Don
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hmmm....I get your meaning Don, but you might want to clarify before someone jumps this one. I am "sober", however I still drink occasionally and smoke the wayward joint once or twice a year. I suppose I was always "sober" in that I was never an addict....dunno, thats a hazy line. Hehe, does this make me a "dry drunk"? ::cheers::
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I get your meaning Don, but you might want to clarify before someone jumps this one.
I said what I meant. I'm sober. I haven't had a drink or drug for nearly 22 years. I condsider myself an alcoholic. But not because Straight said I was. I knew I had a problem years before I went in.
Don
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I think it's a matter of perspective. The Program really was different from one location or time to another. I saw changes in attitude and intensity between St. Pete and Sarasota and in Sarasota over time. But I didn't "see" exactly the same thing as anyone else who was there. I think that's one of the effects of not being allowed to talk or even think about what was going on from day to day.
Yeah, I noticed changes over time in VA straight. When I went in there (November 6, 1982) the group was insane. It seemed like endless confrontation, with me as one of the main scapegoats. There was a lot of the "St. Pete style" shit going on - people getting sat on, restained, 'marathoned' with exercise all day in intake rooms, food consequences, etc, etc..But over time, a lot of this either faded somewhat, or I didn't notice it due to being out of group more.
I did see girls put on guys' side several times. I'm sure people yelled all kinds of horrible, degrading and threatening things. Something like that wouldn't have made much of an impression on me because I looked at the whole thing as nothing but theatre intended to manipulate us into changing our behavior and thinking.
This is kind of my take on it too...
I understand that the Virginia location was way tamer than St. Pete or Sarasota at first. But several different people who hadn't even done acid before have reported hallucinating in group. The worst abuse was going on inside people's heads. You couldn't see it happening.
Hallucinating in group? Damn...
It's safe to say that VA was tamer than the Florida programs, no doubt about it. Like I said, it seemed to tone down a bit over time. It was rough there in the beginning, but still not as bad as the Florida programs..
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-11-22 13:42 ]
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Sorry, I guess I made an assumption on that. I suppose it comes from what the Straight definition of sober was. According to them, I would not be "sober" even though I am not an abuser. In there, you were either a druggie or you were FOS, there was no in between....so I guess when people ask about still being sober, it chafes a little. You and I have different roots in that respect though...both very valid under the circumstances.
Hmm, you know, it makes me see how I have struggled with that issue since I was in Straight, I think its actually a definable remnant of my time there, those of which I usually have quite a hard time defining.
How long did I go on feeling guilty for drinking a beer, even though I was not an alcoholic? It was always in the back of my mind. I knew that if i had a few with my buddies it was normal, but if I ever drank in front of anyone from Straight, it was a relapse. The first time I drank after I got out of the program, I defned it as my relapse. It never occured to me that even though I wasnt an addict, that I was still relapsing because drinking was,is, and always would be bad..bad...bad. And the fact that I was in Straight made me an addict...not the fact that I may have ever actually drank or taken drugs....wow, I am starting to get confused. Any thoughts?
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It's kind of funny the way things happened. By that I mean 'weird' funny. I had been out of straight for 3 or 4 months & had been AWOL on my "aftercare" for maybe a month or so. I was no longer living at home, but would still refuse pot or alcohol if it was offered to me. I had what straight used to call (I know the name was taken here by someone) a "powerful attitude." Even before I went AWOL, I had no qualms about hanging out with people (old "druggie" friends) who were getting high. I'd just tell them I didn't smoke any more and that was that. Nobody tried to talk me into doing anything I didn't want to do. I even rode around with total strangers while they went to score dope (pot) in the 'hood. I was in their car and was not about to bail - I needed a lift home after jamming with them. I had met them at the Marble Bar on open mic night...
Anyway, back to broken sobriety. I was at an art opening. I ate a rum ball, not knowing it had alcohol. That was it...At that point I remember saying to myself something like, "Well, I've done that..why bother with this not drinking crap anymore? What difference does it really make anyway?" I went back to the table and poured myself some wine. Up until now, my girlfriend had seen me refuse to drink, etc..so she asked me, "Hey, I thought you didn't drink?" I forget what I said, but we drank together and eventually smoked pot and did bromo-mesc together and that was that. I think I began to realize the fallacy of the whole "chemically dependant" routine that they had finally convinced me of. I just couldn't give a rat's ass about that anymore..I knew deep down that it really didn't matter either way. Life became a carnival. :silly: I didn't really slow down until about 7 years ago, after my first child was born.
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-11-22 20:20 ]
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There seems to be such a huge difference in oppinion about sobriety and thoughts on Straight and whether Straight helped or hurt people in some way or another. It seems as if the people that are still sober don't have to many negative things to say about Straight but, the ones that are still active in their drinking (holic or not)have a ton of bad things to say. Is their many staff members from straight on this forum or graduates? I could be wrong but it seems like most of the comments are made by people that either were misbehaviors. I have nothing against anyone in here whether they graduated or not or if they were misbehaviors or if they are sober or die hard drug abusers...it makes no difference to me. Everyone makes their own choices in life regardless of what they may have gone through in life. I just find it interesting that some say how bad the experience was at a specific Straight and another says theirs was not as bad or that they are even grateful to some degree for Straight. I am also well aware that some people probabley didn't have drug problems where others may have. After reading Aarons original post and whoever the person was that wrote about some of the specific head games that they played in their(which was actually quite comical....not sure if it was intended to be funny or not), they still seemed to find some good things that they got out of the place. What are your thoughts to all of this :question:
Dave
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These are good observations of how people look at the program differently. There are some ex-staff who post here (and elsewhere) regularly - Clay and Don to name a couple. And for the record, neither one of them thinks too highly of the program, from what I can gather. For myself, the only real good that came out of the place was that I was able to get to know some of the people that I was thrown into that mess with, especially now as "survivors." The program itself was (and still is) an atrocity to say the least.
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Well Dave, theres over 9,000 posts here in the straight survivor forum. I am sure if you scroll back a ways, you will find more than enough info about what people think.
For those people who are still washed, well, they don't post here that much. If they do, they get their heads bit off and then leave.
What difference does it make anyway? The program was evil, corrupt and it killed kids, plain and simple.
:flame:
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Gonna venture out on a HUGE limb here and say that maybe those who are still "sober" have good things to say because the idea of "sobriety" is part of what needs to be called into question. At least the programs idea of it.
Just sounds to me like that " in or out" mentality. You are either sober or you are not sober. I thought being an addict or not being an addict was really the issue......whether or not I am drinking or drugging or clean as a whistle...if I am an addict, its the addictive behavior that will manifest in anything and everything else....people can hide from even taking Tylenol for a headache and still behave and make choices as if they were the hardest heroin abuser.
One thing I do remember from Straight and AA was the idea that drugs were not the problem, they were a symptom of the problem....this idea was conveniently extended and retracted in order to satisfy the needs of the moment in group....but its probably the only true thing I ever learned in there.
I am NOT going to speak for everyone, I am simply saying that I really believe that if you can resolve the core issues you have that drive you to self destruct.....it doesnt matter if you have a few drinks or if you smoke a joint or have a one night stand or eat a whole bag of oreos one day....or if you do nothing at all...if those core issues arent dealt with, the behavior will manifest over and over in whatever form is available....for example in religious fervor or other similar paths. Just because something is deemed acceptable by society doesnt mean it cant be the same thundering juggernaut of excess that drugs were for people.
We are made to make mistakes in life, thats our existence, its how we deal with and make good on those mistakes that makes us better people. Being "sober" in the conventional sense, to me, is simply another cop-out.
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I went in when I was 20 and totally fucked up on crack and a bunch of other shit including a whopper of an alcohol problem. Although I was a young adult, I had the mind and emotional level of a 12 year old with a serious anger management problem. I walked into the open meeting room and the staff member said " this is Aaron...who's got something to say?" When everyone broke out in motivation I realized that I had just wound up in a place full of retarded people who needed to get some air. I thought about punching the asshole holding my beltloop right in the face and bolting for the door. I just knew that one of the kids close to me ( they were all shaking and carrying on like stroke victims) was going to jump up from his seat and chew off one of my arms. Then, all of a sudden, one of the horrifying gyrators jumped up out of his seat and spoke english to me. I was afraid he would say someting like " Awl urrup dorrhogniss ooof" But no...he said...."I just want to welcome you to straight and if you ever had sex with your sister, you had better tell us." I was relieved because I didn't have a sister and being as twisted as I was, had I had a sister I probably would have tried to nail her every day! Two weeks later there I was, arms flailing, slobber flying, ass slamming up and down on a chair just hoping I could be the one that got to say hidie-ho to the the new guy with an oldcomer-ass-attachment.
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Hey but, I still would of never thought when I went in there and saw all the people skitzing out flopping around. :eek: ..and all this to say hi and welcome to me. WOW! All these people wanted to talk to me....for once I was getting all the attention that I so much craved and deserved......the love I felt was almost mollesting. Many months of nothing but bliss! Straight did not kill me though. I am sober now. Being sandwiched between to women sexually at one time makes me wonder why I wasted so much time looking to get high or drunk. LOL
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Are we all "washed" or are you just in denial? You know nothing about someone else to make a general statement like that. When I read some of things that were posted....yes I felt bad for some of those people and I also read things that I simply didn't believe. I witnessed accusations made by someone that I was in with the entire time that they were there and they were just bluntly lying about a ton of stuff and it was on national TV. I am sure there was abuse through the years, especially the early years of Straight but, I also realize how fucked up some can be when their lives are trashed for whatever reason and things just seem to suck for them, so they tend to blame anything and everything else for their own choices. My point is this, Aaron and the other person(headgames) both said what they didn't like about Straight but, they also founs some sort of positive out of it and I certainly didn't read them as still being brain washed. And they both claimed to still be sober.
Dave
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I think the topic of sobriety will probably always be a rather touchy issue for a lot of us. It was just such a pervasive part of the Straight lingo. It's like the alternate definition of the word honesty.
Till the end of time, my mother will believe that I chose pot over my family when given THE ultimatum. This was after 10 years as a Seed sibling, 2 years in Straight and a couple of hours in the intake room at LIFE. This, she'll blithely tell uncomfortable strangers on the street is hard evidence of the mighty awsom power of the marijuana addiction.
The truth is just a little more complex than that and not to my mother's liking. So when you ask "Are you sober", knowing that you spent some time speaking the same lingo in the same context I did, it carries a different definition than the usual.
I don't abstain from mind altering drugs asif a mere taste is certain death for me. It's not. I never had a drug problem to begin with and have failed, so far, to develop one, except for tobacco.
Am I sober?
1 a : sparing in the use of food and drink : ABSTEMIOUS b : not addicted to intoxicating drink c : not drunk
2 : marked by sedate or gravely or earnestly thoughtful character or demeanor
3 : UNHURRIED, CALM
4 : marked by temperance, moderation, or seriousness
5 : subdued in tone or color
6 : showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice
synonym see SERIOUS
Our youth can not understand why society chooses to criminalize a behavior with so little visible ill effect or adverse social impact... These young people have jumped the fence and found no cliff.
Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse
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To answer your question......I can't answer it! I don't know if you have a problem or not, only you know that. I have a problem and that is very clear and blunt to me. I didn't begin to learn about true recovery until I left Straight and walked into AA. I certainly do not have ill feelings towards you or anyone else that drinks or smokes weed or whatever. If you or anyone is able to do that stuff with out negative results...my hats off to ya.I have friends that party and I am friends with them. I just got a little fired at what "1985" said in their last posting. I don't like when people speak for an entire group or telling me how I feel or think.I feel that the only thing I have control over in my life is the decisions that I make. Every decision has an action and every action has a result some good, some bad. This was not "taught " in Straight, AA or anything else that I was or am involved with. I am also not saying this is how anyone else should think...what do I know....I know nothing about anyone else nor would I just tell someone what they should do. I seriously wish everyone in this forum well and to the people that still are very unhappy in their lives, I hope they find what makes them happy. It seems like people are either for Straight or against it and then there are people that went through it with likes and dislikes but, still moved on in their life some positive, some negative (meaning destructive to themselves somehow w/ drugs or with out). I respect and accept everyones oppinion about Straight. I am not a spokes person for the place and matter of fact, I really have very little support for the place or the places like it. Main reason is because I don't feel like staff members were qualified to decide and treat the kids the way they best felt hard core or not.
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I just got a little fired at what "1985" said in their last posting. I don't like when people speak for an entire group or telling me how I feel or think.I feel that the only thing I have control over in my life is the decisions that I make. Every decision has an action and every action has a result some good, some bad.
I don't know that he or she was trying tell you what to think, necessarily. That was just their take. And I see where you're coming from. You started off with some legitimate questions about peoples' different takes on the program. Nothing wrong with that...it's not always as black-and-white as "the program sucked 100% period." For some that's the case, but that doesn't mean that I have to say that I never had one moment there that I didn't hate from the pit of my heart either...
And you're right about what you said concerning the staff. They weren't qualified, and some of them went way too far in the name of treatment. But even deeper than that, the whole idea of forcing an ideology down someone's throat is bound to go wrong somewhere along the line.
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I can only speak for myself and one person I have stayed in touch with from our time at Straight, Dallas. We both were on staff. I was a Jr II when I left and my friend a Jr I. You will not hear a good word, thought or idea endorsed by either of us about Straight. I commenced in 88 and was around until 90. My friend commenced in 89 and left staff a few months later in 90. I was 15 when I came in for eval - also a rape and incest victim at that time although today I am proud and speak to others as a survivor. I had maybe 8-10 drinking stories and tried pot 1x. I was a nutcase but not becuase of drugs - my friend was opposite - will claim that he was one who could have benefitted from a theraputic drug rehab as he had done just about everything but herion. We both witnessed physical abuse but the main thing Straight did at every program, the true evil at Straight was the mental and pyschological abuse. You were locked in and could either comply and admit you were a druggie/addict or be on first phase which was a humiliating phase with absolutely no respect for anything human. I finally gave in at day 52 - can remember it exactly even today. Started making my FOS list by taking the stories I had heard in group and piecing things together - I actually wrote them down as soon as I got to second phase and kept them stuffed in my MI spiral so I would not screw them up. By about 4th phase I absolutely believed them and you could not have ever convinced me different. 12-9-2003 will be 14 years and after many,many years of therapy I still do not have a good thing to say about that place. I have not talked to or met anyone who can say that they have nothing negative to say or did not see things that were not abusive and just plain wrong. my biggest issue once I finally understood what had happened to me was the shame, guilt, fear, sadness and regret that I had inflicted this kind of soul stripping on many other kids. I still struggle with that, even understanding the way that brainwashing works and that the only way to perpetuate a system is to only allow people who have been beat down to succumb to the beliefs to be the leaders. still want to puke when I think about it. So to anon, this is a former staff member who can tell you that I was not a misbehavior - obviously and even today, as a successful woman who has overcome many obstacles that by far the most difficult has been Straight. I have said to some close to me that I would do the rape and molestion over before I would ever do Straight and that is one of the strongest statements I know to make someone understand just how horrific I found that place to be. It seems to me, 1985 that you must be in the, perhaps 1% who does not feel that they suffered long term negative effects from Straight - I don't know you - but my hope is that is true while my guess is that that is a coping mechanism to not remember what really went on in those blue chairs.
-Jennifer
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Those who read my messages and think that I have positive things to say about straight are WAY off. I couldn't even graduate from that program and I went there on my own! The mind games and terror tactics that they used on me were too much to bear and I withdrew before I really went crazy. It took me 4 years to be able to put my head on the pillow at night with out angrily playing the the tapes of that place over and over in my mind. AND understand this. I have been a sober, active member of AA ever since (14 years) and it still affects me in subtle ways. (SOBER means not drinking ONLY IF YOU ARE AN ALCOHOLIC LIKE ME!!! Otherwise all Websters definitions apply to you just finewhether you drink alcohol or not!!! In order for ME to be described as sober by dictionary standards is for me NOT to drink at all!!!) Anyway, I digress there!
I think I still have a distant fear of sucess and failure as well as a fear of other people as aresult of that place. I was taught how to strip a person down and I was taught that everyone is lying about something. How well do you think my relationships have gone living with those type of beliefs??? ALL I have been saying is that I refuse to stay negative and to let anything RULE my life. All the fears I mentioned I have made tremendous progress with and My life is finally really really good. Actually beyond my wildest dreams. BUT IT TOOKS ASS LOADS OF PAIN AND PERSERVERANCE AND GOD'S GRACE TO GET ME HERE! THE ONLY POSITIVE THINGS STRAIGHT DID FOR ME ARE THESE:
1) Got me away from drugs and alcohol for an extended period of time.
2) Told me to go to AA when I got out.
3) Taught me how to tell the truth (and this one had serious consequences because I did out in the world what we did in straight which was tell everybody everything.....NOt good to do in the real world I assure you)
4) Introduced me to my best friend
5) Gave me time to actually find a power greater than myself that had nothing to do wiht straight
Does it really sound like I like the Place??
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Sorry to rub you wrong Dave, but I very specifically stated I wasnt speaking for anyone else at all...its just my take on it, its what I process in my own mind when I think about it. Of course I dont know much about the other people here...I do know how I feel about the issue though and how it pertains to me, and thats all I was putting out there.
I dont deny that people lie or get carried away or whatever about what happened to them in Straight....but we really do have to "open our minds" and realize that even if there are a few good eggs in the program basket....there are hundreds upon hundreds of bad ones. That says something about Straight, whether we think it was a good place or not. I was not a misbehavor, in fact I tried to be 100% honest as much as possible, if there was something I was doing wrong, beleive me, I didnt know it. But staff was always willing to tell me what it was, and coerce me into admitting to several other things while they were at it. Therein lies the problem see. Getting sober and getting help is admirable....but Straights version was very twisted and very wrong.
I wasnt a crack or cocaine or PCP user when i went into the program, couldnt even imagine where I would have gotten those drugs even if I wanted to be....but you betchyer bottom dollar I was ALL of those things by second phase, and I beleived it too. I knew someone who knew someone who had snorted coke, and I justified that I may have been in the room when they were dong it and got some second hand dust or something. That sort of abuse is different from being thrown on the floor and sat on, but its no less dangerous and wrong.
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J-
I agree with you 100%, I was in Dallas probably right after you left. From 90-91 give or take. I did many of the same things you did, made things up in order to progress....in there you would go nowhere fast if you didnt.
Welcome!
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That sort of abuse is different from being thrown on the floor and sat on, but its no less dangerous and wrong.
NO DOUBT
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I couldn't agree more with your opinion, Jennifer. I was a Jr. II in ATL and was fired for calling the program a bunch of Neo-Nazis. I can tell you this didn't go over to well. The biggest problem I have with the straight methodology is the indivdual was not responsible for the determination they have an addiction issue. The client was bluntly told they had a drug problem and were then beaten over the head, in some cases physically, until the client also believed they had a drug problem.
Jennifer is also right that the abuse was planned at the highest levels. We had a list of people who were not to be allowed to talk in group no matter what. Considering that most of what a first phaser "earned" was based on their participation in group, you can see where this lead. By the time the client was allowed to talk again, they were beaten shells of their former selves. This being just one example. First phase was geared to destroy ones self esteem through abject humiliation, to remove any support base the client might have and to replace all this with an unwholesome reliance on the "group" and its whims.
Also like Jennifer, I have spent many years in therapy getting to the point where I could be productive in society once again. Straight was and continues to be the most painful and damaging period in my life and I been through some shit like most everyone else here. It has hampered and colored all my relationships and career with the left over baggage simply paralyzing at times.
-CL
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Those who read my messages and think that I have positive things to say about straight are WAY off. I couldn't even graduate from that program and I went there on my own! The mind games and terror tactics that they used on me were too much to bear and I withdrew before I really went crazy. It took me 4 years to be able to put my head on the pillow at night with out angrily playing the the tapes of that place over and over in my mind. AND understand this. I have been a sober, active member of AA ever since (14 years) and it still affects me in subtle ways. (SOBER means not drinking ONLY IF YOU ARE AN ALCOHOLIC LIKE ME!!! Otherwise all Websters definitions apply to you just finewhether you drink alcohol or not!!! In order for ME to be described as sober by dictionary standards is for me NOT to drink at all!!!) Anyway, I digress there!
I think I still have a distant fear of sucess and failure as well as a fear of other people as aresult of that place. I was taught how to strip a person down and I was taught that everyone is lying about something. How well do you think my relationships have gone living with those type of beliefs??? ALL I have been saying is that I refuse to stay negative and to let anything RULE my life. All the fears I mentioned I have made tremendous progress with and My life is finally really really good. Actually beyond my wildest dreams. BUT IT TOOKS ASS LOADS OF PAIN AND PERSERVERANCE AND GOD'S GRACE TO GET ME HERE! THE ONLY POSITIVE THINGS STRAIGHT DID FOR ME ARE THESE:
1) Got me away from drugs and alcohol for an extended period of time.
2) Told me to go to AA when I got out.
3) Taught me how to tell the truth (and this one had serious consequences because I did out in the world what we did in straight which was tell everybody everything.....NOt good to do in the real world I assure you)
4) Introduced me to my best friend
5) Gave me time to actually find a power greater than myself that had nothing to do wiht straight
Does it really sound like I like the Place??
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Hey Aaron, I get ya'.
If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
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A few years ago I went to a concert and was close by to Springfield. I found the old Straight building (which is now a plumbing or lighting store). Anyhow, I got out of the car and went around back to the parking lot where the phasers were dropped off and picked up. It was now very overgrown with weeds and looked a lot different but, I just stood there and instantly had about 300 flash backs of when I was there....it was very eerie....I just stood there and started to cry, I could do nothing else but, cry! The emotions that I felt were just a flood. I miss people from there and I also feel guilt and regret for how I treated some people. I know then that I thought I was doing the right thing by freaking out on people that I thought was full of shit and I thought that these people would die if we weren't like this to them. I mean this is what was taught to us. People were like that to me when I was new and even when I was honest later on higher phases. Jesus, that place was no walk in the park and I still struggle with huge amounts of insecurities today and I still fear what people think of me. I have learned to force and push myself through it most times now but, I truely don't think I will ever get over that shit totally. I still find myself at times thinking about the place and specific situations like it was yesterday and I graduated in 89 for God sakes. The one thing I can say that I would not trade in the world is a friend that I met in their that specifically kept my ass from relapsing and / potential suicide twice in the 15 years since I have been out. If I would have never been placed there regardless of all the mind fucking and pain in or after Straight...I would have not ever met this person. And I can also relate to the hosty thing in the real world, I remember going to a meeting after graduating terrified out of my skull and all I could do is cry violently and then when people could finally begin to understand me I decided to tell them that I was mollested and I think I avoid feelings by masturbating to much and that meant I was gonna relapse. I am not sure that particular AA meeting was quite ready for that type of honesty coming out of a 15 year old boy that already had over a year and half of sobriety. Holy Shit was I fucked up!! Thank God the silence ended after my sharing moment in that meeting. Everyone just sat there after I said what I said and finally stopped crying. The men in that meeting did not know what to do, let alone how to respond. I remember a older woman finally chimed in with tears in her eyes and welcomed me. I dunno what she all said anymore but she kind of took me under her wing and then a few more people started to talk to me as time passed, then I slowly....very slowly started to realize that Straight was not sobriety or recovery and I really knew next to nil anything about recovery or reality. Being in Straight and then being released like an animal back into the real world was probabley the hardest thing I ever went through in my life. A normal person would respond to me then you should be so proud and confident and secure in your life. Well, I am far from any of that. I also hate the awareness bull shit that I took with from Straight that always tends to creep up allowing me to judge everyone or not trust anyone....that I see. Amazes me what can be drilled and learned in a stay at Straight(average 1-2 years)and 13 years of trying to get rid of most of what I was taught. The torture that I must have put old girlfriends and some others through after I got out of Straight must have been insane but, I only ever believed I was doing the right thing for them or for myself at the time. I never that I can recall ever wanted to intentionally hurt anyone....thats the ironic thing. I am just glad that their was some other people or at least one person that got to go through this specifically with me in and out. I also know that I have a very strong bond with just about anyone that ever went through Straight whether I know them or not and regardless of their present state or situation. It's scarey to think that there is probabley a ton of people out there in the wild that think like I did and still do at times.
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But then there are times when all I seem to interested in is my own belly butto lint.....I that normal??
Signed,
Very Concerned
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Thanks for your honesty Aaron. I know it is hard to be open about that type of thing and I too normally show interst only to my belly button lint. I sometimes will look at my belly button and see little people in there motivating all to the beat of the Gomer Pyle theme song. I still do not know what this means as of yet but, I am working on getting grants from the state to further research this mystery.
BORK BORK BORK!!!!!
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Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!! :em:
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Did everybody survive the big T-Day? Was it just me or did everyone get to experience complete sickness everywhere they went yesterday (Thanksgiving). I swear everyone has the flu or a cold everywhere I went. I thought about snorting echanasia(sp?) rather then swallowing the pill for Helens sake. :scared:
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Hey,
Remember Thanksgiving in Straight? The holidays were always very special in there.
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I think that the next 100 callers should get the opportunity to view my massive penis. It is absolutely huge. A virtual freak of nature. Thank you for letting me share.
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Keep it in your pants, you sick fuck...
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uh.....yeah....LOVE YA ANON!!!!!
Lets have a song....
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What song though????? hmmmm....."My Cock Is It!"
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oh great. at least this discussion has gone straight to hell. does anyone know a guy named shane welch? how about a girl named sarah greenwald?
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I would also like to know about or if anyone remembers Dave or Barbra Frenzle, Tom Carter, Anthony Riccio, Matt Bullman,Nikki Longmore(sp?)staff, Rob Hocksmith, Marc Glover, a guy named Parnell,Andy Boyd, girl named Ladonna, Jennifer Sheppard, Jason Leville, Ken Deal, Jim White, Elizabeth Huey, Damn there is so many!!!!! Oh and Brady Minick(staff). Does MJ Design or Meadows Farm still exist in Springfield? I wonder what the janitor (don't remember his name) of Straight used to think about that whole thing?
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Aaron ,
This whole thing did go south rather quickly, didn't it?
Scott :cool:
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On 2003-12-01 15:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What song though????? hmmmm....."My Cock Is It!""
I would love to see your cock... How about you e-mail me a piture of it at: ladymorli@yahoo.com
Pleeeeeease, I can't wait !!
Hurry!! I'll be waiting...I tried for years to live according to everyone else's morality.
I tried to live like everyone else, to be like everyone else.
I said the right things even when I felt and thought quite differently.
And the result is a catastrophe.
---Albert Camus
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Alright Miss Morli. You got it. Can I send a picture of my butt too?? It is exceptionally cute!!
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It won't be so cute after it's full of lead.. ::armed::
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On 2003-12-03 09:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Alright Miss Morli. You got it. Can I send a picture of my butt too?? It is exceptionally cute!! "
You haven't sent anything yet... :roll: All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William Kingdon Clifford
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Are you single, married or a swinger? :grin:
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anon, YOU are so very pathetic... ::boohoo::
...it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds..
--Samuel Adams
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What, this whole forum? I agree!
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What happened here? This whole thing did start off pretty good?