Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Elan School => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 15, 2003, 08:43:00 AM
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Hey everyone, this site is ridiculous. I really doubt that the staff at Elan enjoyed running GM's and making our lives difficult. When you think about it, 40,000 bucks a year is cheap when you consider that it is year round care. I don't think that any of the staff called and requested your presence there. Yeah, I hated being at that place as much as anyone, but the things that you are all accusing them of is just your warped view of the world taking over. You probably don't like anyone.
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On 2003-11-15 05:57:00, normaljordan wrote:
I really doubt that the staff at Elan enjoyed running GM's and making our lives difficult.
There is a woman who posts here, who as a GM, had ketchup-filled tampons taped to her. No, I am sure that staff hated doing that to her, but just knew that it is the optimum solution. Okay.. :roll:
I think they enjoyed.. That's just too creative of punishment.
Also, if you read through some of my past posts, you will see that I have a well-founded theory that they not only enjoyyed it, but chose a lifestyle, where they required, and fed off it.
Paul St. John
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When you think about it, 40,000 bucks a year is cheap when you consider that it is year round care.
What's the going rate for year-round abuse these days?
Paul
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Why should I tell you who I am? You don't even have a ligit name to identify yourself with. Besides, people on this site go by the name "Nazi" which is so f@*$&ed up. Why do you people believe you are rightfully allowed to know anything? Why don't you just be thankful that someone tried to correct your awful behavior at Elan and recognize that they were only trying to help you?
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Oh, you must be staff that failed at Elan. Or, you had kids that failed at Elan.
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There isnt anything about elan were one can be branded as a failure.Elan is nothing but a sick twisted game invented by Joe Ricci and that Gerald Daividson mother fucker.Many of us did not agree with elan's concept, so that makes us failures?I would love to invite the staff to my world, lets see if they come out on top.The Elan staff coul,t make it in the real world so they hide in an old hunting lodge deep in the woods of Maine.Take a look at Joe Ricci, he fled from the city becasue he couldnt hack it, same as Jeffery Gottlieb, Maty, Marc ECT.THese people couldn't hack it in the real world.
Look at us now, some of us own business, make decent money "More then what Elan staff currently make" and live amongst society, we are not isloated deep in the woods unless some of us have the luxury of owning a cabin we get away to form time to time.We can function in the real world and dont have to be scared like the elan staff.
Elan staff are jealous of the students that didnt graduate their program because they are afraid to find out that those students have becaome more successfull then them and make more money.
Lets take Syn for an example, here is a kid that split from elan and now owns wine stores and drives a BMW, not bad for a failed splitee?I myself own business and also did not graduate the elan program.
Imagine yourself placed in an enviroment and being told this is what you have to do in order to graduate, now keep in mind, this enviroment makes no sense and is the stupiest thing you ever heard of?Well that expalins the defination of elan.
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On 2003-11-15 09:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why don't you just be thankful that someone tried to correct your awful behavior at Elan and recognize that they were only trying to help you?"
Because, in most cases, there wasn't any awful behavior to begin with. Just an inability to deal in an effective way with unreasonable, emotionally neglectful and/or abusive control freak adults in our lives. The Program has never been about helping young people better deal with life's challenges. The Program is all about breaking people's will and self esteem and making them willing to suck it up and believe it's all their fault.
The method is extremely effective, too! Not the least bit therapeutic, but very effective. I'll give you an example.
I'm trying to remember the Elan lingo for this. I think it was just "image". In straight, any aspect of our personalities that Staff decided was bad and needed to be washed out of us was called a "druggie image" or a "druggie tie". This could be anything from clothing to your hair to books to a certain very expensive Les Paul guitar that one friend of mine lost to the black hole of "druggie ties".
Not long after I got there, a staffer stood me up and informed me that my name was a tie to my druggie image. So they were going to call me by my given name, instead. Now, no one but strangers had ever called me by my given name. As far back as I can remember, I've always been Ginger to my family, friends, teachers, doctors... that was my name. But I went along with that and just kept my mouth shut on the gut instinct to not ask for any favors or take candy from strangers. It was my little secret and a constant reminder to me in the privacy of my own mind of just how full of shit the whole Program was.
Around 10 years later, though, I took over a house for my dad when he wanted to get out into the country for his retirement. He left a few things laying around, some old books and some papers and nick-nacks that he'd just missed while packing up. One of those little items that I found was a piece of construction paper art that I'd done in Kindergarten. I remembered making it, too. It had been one of my best pieces and I was deeply touched to find that my dad had held onto it for all those years. He never struck me as the sentimental type, ya' know? More of a hard assed WWII vet.
I actually cried tears of joy when I flipped it over and saw, in my own early handwriting, "GINGER". Not "VIRGINIA". See, intellectually, I knew all along that I was right, that I wasn't lying to myself, that they had just been trying to fuck with my mind and that they'd guessed wrong on that one. But emotionally, I still needed PROOF.
Even though it was years later and even though I'd never fully bought into the Program beyond trying my best to avoid an ass kicking till I could either split sucessfully, graduate or come of age, I still needed to see hard evidence that my memory was correct and they had been wrong.
Kid, if/when you discover that remaining in good standing with Elan requires you to choose between something true and valuable about yourself and rejecting it as an image, per Elan, don't lose your grip.
History gives us a kind of chart, and we dare not surrender even a small rushlight in the darkness. The hasty reformer who does not remember the past will find himself condemned to repeat it.
--John Buchan
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Why do you people believe you are rightfully allowed to know anything? Why don't you just be thankful that someone tried to correct your awful behavior at Elan and recognize that they were only trying to help you?
Looks like staff to me fellow adventure seekers.
What the fuk u think is worth being thankfull about?? Help, no try ABUSING, fuk you helping. Help us right now and suk on a tail pipe.
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Ok, as far as the Ginger vs Virginia story goes, I think that the valuable question to ask yourself is, who really cares? I happen to have two names also- my birth name and my nickname. Now, hardly anyone calls me by my birth name, but if they did, I wouldn't really care, because it's my name! If you're going to base your negative feelings about Elan on a situation as stupid as that, well then you win the argument because I don't have time to discuss such irrelevent bs.
I guess my comments have sparked some controversey- that's fine. I guess we're all entitled to our opinions. I know, deep down, that Elan saved my life. If I had not decided to stop acting like an out of control psych ward escapee, determined to destroy everything in my path, school, family, friends.... then I would have a terrible life. Without school, I'd be flipping burgers, without family and friends, I'd be alone.
I don't think that those who agree with this site are bad people, or stupid people, or anything. Elan was not the enemy, if anything, society is the enemy and Elan just tried to show you a better way to deal with it. Who can blame us for acting out and being angry? This world can suck (at times) and what better way to react than throwing a fit? But when you grow up, you can't throw fits anymore. It's better just to play along and try and come out a winner.....
PS- When it comes to your "image," they have a point too. Although, sometimes they took it a little far. I think in the end, they were only trying to seperate you from what had brought you to the point that you needed to be placed in a therapudic learning facility.
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Am I not the only one that gets a sick feeling deep in the pit of their stomach when somone says one of these mind fuck programs saved their lives?
To me it just shows how weak people are. Take one person, lock him up, fuck with his mind, strip his/her identity, and forever and ever it impacts the way they look at the world and calls them to action to prevent others from suffering the same fate.
Take the next specimen, and they forever thank their abuser and buy into the "it saved my life" shtick, the only weak excuse these idiots can come up with for institutionaly brainwashing and abusing children.
Fuck, the world is weird.
If you want a voluntary urine sample from me it'll have to be a taste test.
--Bumper Sticker
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On 2003-11-17 03:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
PS- When it comes to your "image," they have a point too. Although, sometimes they took it a little far. I think in the end, they were only trying to seperate you from what had brought you to the point that you needed to be placed in a therapudic learning facility.
"
Well yes, that was the intent. But it wasn't the only result. By insisting that the only name I'd ever used was a "druggie tie", they were effectively trying to seperate me from that part of myself that knew the whole thing was full of shit.
There was nothing about me that brought me to the Program except the shitty luck to have a neurotic mother who needed for all 6 of her children to be broken and helpless.
What about all the kids placed by state services for no reason, other than the promise of room, board, clothing and education? What part of themselves was Elan bent on seperating them from, except the part that remembers that they didn't need behavior mod to begin with?
Time is running out. The Indians' botanical knowledge is disappearing even faster than the plants themselves.
--Richard Schultes, Harvard University educator, authority on medicinal plants
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
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PS- When it comes to your "image," they have a point too. Although, sometimes they took it a little far. I think in the end, they were only trying to seperate you from what had brought you to the point that you needed to be placed in a therapudic learning facility.
If you want to say that Elan worked for you, fine. But don't try to tell me that there is one damn thing "therapuetic" about abusing kids. How long have you been out of the program?
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-11-17 18:50 ]
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On 2003-11-17 18:49:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"PS- When it comes to your "image," they have a point too. Although, sometimes they took it a little far. I think in the end, they were only trying to seperate you from what had brought you to the point that you needed to be placed in a therapudic learning facility.
If you want to say that Elan worked for you,
That's were they were trying.. hmmm.. I odn't know. What is it they use to say in Daytop, " Trying is the opposite doing"
I see a kid, like the age, of 5.. Let's say he has a teddy bear, and in your opinion, he's just to close to it, ya know.. it.. umm.. gets in the way of his being "normal".
What do you do?
Do you kill the teddy bear? Do you beat it into a mound of stuffing right before the kid's eyes?
If you did what type of effect do you think it would have on the kid?
He ptrobably wouldn t be very trusting to say the least.
I oculd go on for years. There is a million ways to tell the story. It just is what it is.
False-Science being practiced at the expense of the well-being of others.
In Daytop, I let my sanity die to protect my image.
.. becuase it was MINE!
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Totally agree with you. I am in my late 30s now and I cannot think of a more traumatic time in my life. I spent time in Juvenille facilities and would much rather spend the day in a cage or a hole than at elan. At elan we were humiliated and my spirit was crushed. Thank God I am okay now and a Nurse Practitioner. I would never recommend a facility like that for anybody. It is not a place to chane, but a place to feel like garbage 24 hours a day. Thank God the real world is so much better than that little hell hole in Maine
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I spent a lot of time at elan thinking the same exact thing. I would rather be floating on a defating raft in the middle of the ocean starving and hallucinating that sit through one more gm or vr. I couldn't stand the amount of screaming and yelling, the smoking VR's, man that shit permanently fucks up your head, Ive been out for 9 years and I still have effects from the rings, and If I am ever in a place where people start shouting I have to leave immediately. I Mute the tv if people are yelling. I hope perspective parents read this stuff too, so that they know how fucking terrible that place is. Oh yeah and to any staff that might read this, Pete Rowe basically forced me into having sex with him When I was overseeing the house as COD durring outside time. I wouldn't call it rape, but I knew I had to and I feared for what would happen to my grad dates and postion if I didn't. I hate that man, and I hate anyman who talks, looks, or acts like him. I wish I could let his family know he fucks girls there. I know of at least 2 others and a staff member Tracey who he had sex with.
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P.S. Pete If you read this you know exactly who i am. You should watch your back, someday I might feel like letting elan know, I know Tania trusts me and would believe me.
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If that is true, you were raped. You were at a facility for youths and a man of power a lot older raped you. I am sorry you had to go through that and if you ever need help I would gladly take a ride up there and see if Peter can take on a man, not little kids.
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yah right. We wouldn't be let in!
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If this is true REPORT it could be just what is needed to take Elan down for all the shit they pulled! Please tell someone who can help.
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Elan sucked so bad, it made my other placements look like a Disneyland vacation.
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So, who was raped by Peter Rowe? If you're going to post it up there, put a name there too... As for everyone else, I don't know what program, or what time period you were there, but I know that the Elan I went to, and the Elan I worked at was different... And I didn't agree with a lot of things, and I fought to fight certain things as a staff, and ultimately, the way that certain things were run is what made me leave Elan as a staff, however, I know personally that I worked my ass off to help people... You guys talk about images, and everything else... More and more, I realize, Elan wasn't about changing, but learning about yourself... Some of the ways were bullshit, but what you did with yourself while you were there, was up to you... Regardless, think what you want, and your memories and experiences of the place are probably directly related to how you performed there... Like anything else in life, you make it or you don't...
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You give yourself away with your style of writing Shakes :smokin:
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So Matt you only sign your name to a few? But not others? Is that cuz you let pete moore fuck you in the ass. I will call elan tomorrow and let them know about your little boy bullshit on this site. You can do what you do best and lie. Say its someone pretending to be you. But everyone knows the retarded way you talk. So I hope You get fired. And move near me. You need a visit. BADLY.
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if someone was sexually abused why in the world would they use there real name ? i know i wouldnt, i would be worried about retaliation or maybe it happening again....i know that there were staff members who had sex with residents at elan.....i nevvvver remember white water rafting or anything even remotley close.....corners, haircuts, rings, gms, sleep deprivation, hummiliation and degradation i remember in abundance....elan was the first "placement" or "hospital" i was ever in.....talk about a mindfuck....if you think elan helped you, maybe it did, but chances are you spent your time kissing ass or saying lalalalala bad dream bad dream, bad dream.....
fucking nightmares more like it....
jackie
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Hey Jackie Iam with you sounds like the elan I went to..
As far as this sexual abuse if theres any truth to it the people who were abused need to speak out! I dont know if theres limitations on that type of crime but if it happened the girls need to tell someone.
I dont know about the rest of you but I find it kinda funny along comes this smart ass staff member when something real comes up, is he here for a reason? I find him the most pathetic of them all! :roll:
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ineed a visit badly? hahah... how retarded is that... you plan on doing anything you say, or you going to just sit here and bitch?
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Hey cold precision give me a fucking time of day, Id love too annhialate you. You sackless waste of human flesh get off our board. Retarded piece of shit. Seriously you should die. And if you are writing from here that means you are a little boy, I can't believe people leave there childs lives in there hands. Hopefully you don't take advantage of young girls like Pete did to me. Tell pete that he's been uncovered too, and a lawyer has his records, and soon he will be going down. GOING DOWN AS IN NO MARRIAGE NO JOB REGISTERED SEXUAL PREDATOR. Tracey Mendonites is helping me with my case:-)
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You go girl !!!!!!!!! who knows maybe Elan will have to owe up to everything they did! And Matt fuck off,,, your really not very good as these people have stayed on track!!!!
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On 2004-12-25 17:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey cold precision give me a fucking time of day, Id love too annhialate you. You sackless waste of human flesh get off our board. Retarded piece of shit. Seriously you should die. And if you are writing from here that means you are a little boy, I can't believe people leave there childs lives in there hands. Hopefully you don't take advantage of young girls like Pete did to me. Tell pete that he's been uncovered too, and a lawyer has his records, and soon he will be going down. GOING DOWN AS IN NO MARRIAGE NO JOB REGISTERED SEXUAL PREDATOR. Tracey Mendonites is helping me with my case:-)"
Holy Cow. How pitiful that people use this type of language and live this type of attitude. It IS sad. I have to agree that YOU make your OWN decisions, so TAKE responsibility for YOURSELVES...if you have issues, ADMIT them, DEAL with them (get HELP in need be) and then MOVE ON, grow, progress, be happy! There are NO excuses to live as a victim (whether you were or pretend to be)... those who bitch and complain on this site about how they were brainwashed, or abused seriously need to MOVE ON already. You are being FOOLED big time, if you think that this site helps you in any solice or resolve.
I encourage those of you "angry", revengeful, bitter posters to MAKE A REAL attempt of improving your life!
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to the person who was raped by Peter Rowe, that is really fucking sick. that man is there to help people, a lot of who are weak, abused, and scared women themselves.....whether it was rape or not-for him to have sex with girls at that school and to abuse that kind of power is really disturbing. You say you know others who he did this to-do the future girls at Elan a favor and report this so no one else has to go through what you did.
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To be quite honest I would have loved to work at Elan. I made great friends and from what I understood people found me helpful and sincere. I am so tired of people blaming everyone else. Look you have a right to vent but lets be honest none of you were put there because you were a great kid. Or anything close. I can say that because I was so out of control I was very lucky to have found myself in Elan. I hated alot of days and I even did not like some of the staff ok just one of the stay. But the bottom line is I was lucky not to be dead, in jail, or on acrap load of medicine. So those of you that did not deserve to be ther please tall me why I would love to know why you parents or the courts paid that amount of money to fuck with you. Yes I did swear but my kids are a sleep. I was so relived to get to Elan because I had bearly slept in years. IT DID SAVE MY LIFE SO WHAT DOES THAT MAKE ME ANY LESS.
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i will never call a person a liar who screams sexual abuse, because what kind of mother would i be to my 2 little girls, but i do want to say, if this is so, I am truely sorry for you being demoralized, belittled and taken advantage of while in Elan. However, I was part of P.Rowe's x-country team for 3 years and I never found anything to be foul. I never liked the man, dont get me wrong, but I never seemed weary of the man. If tracey M. (who was also on my x-country team ) is helping you, why would she choose to be staff? Posting something like this on this site, seems like nothing more than a rumor, like so many others have posted. If it is the truth, why the need to tell people that you dont even know that you have been violated.
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i have to agree... i was student when tracy started working at elan... and she did very well as a staff... and there were times when her and pete butted heads, and the whole house saw it, but she worked her ass off, and she was co-x's with pete... so, why would she do all that if she was helping you?
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What is all this business about Tracey having saex with Peter Rowe? Was this staff member's last name Hutchinson? Did she have a fairy tattoo or a sun tattoo, and if she did, tell me where on her body they were so I know you are telling me the truth.
And another thing, if she was staff, then it was yes, distasteful, but LEGAL for Peter and Tracey to have sex, so just get the fuck off of that topic already. I'm sure that we have all done things in the heat of the moment.
What is all this BS about Peter anyway?? Peter is a great guy, and he would never ever rape, or molest or even touch a girl at Elan. Do you know why? Because he's not stupid. He knows that they would go and tell on him the first chance they got and then it would be the end of his career/life/etc. He would probably be put in jail as most of the girls are under age. Seriously, if anyone believes all this shit about Peter Rowe, just please, think about it. There's no way that he is that dumb. :wstupid:
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On 2005-01-16 06:50:00, Outlaw wrote:
What is all this BS about Peter anyway?? Peter is a great guy, and he would never ever rape, or molest or even touch a girl at Elan. Do you know why? Because he's not stupid. He knows that they would go and tell on him the first chance they got and then it would be the end of his career/life/etc. He would probably be put in jail as most of the girls are under age.
So you're saying that he wouldn't have sex with underage girls because he knows they would tell??? Damn, I would HOPE that he wouldn't have sex with underage girls because it's FUCKING WRONG!!!!!!!!
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On 2005-01-16 06:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-01-16 06:50:00, Outlaw wrote:
What is all this BS about Peter anyway?? Peter is a great guy, and he would never ever rape, or molest or even touch a girl at Elan. Do you know why? Because he's not stupid. He knows that they would go and tell on him the first chance they got and then it would be the end of his career/life/etc. He would probably be put in jail as most of the girls are under age.
So you're saying that he wouldn't have sex with underage girls because he knows they would tell??? Damn, I would HOPE that he wouldn't have sex with underage girls because it's FUCKING WRONG!!!!!!!!"
That's besides the point. Don't put words in my mouth. Thanks.
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On 2005-01-16 07:22:00, Outlaw wrote:
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On 2005-01-16 06:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-01-16 06:50:00, Outlaw wrote:
What is all this BS about Peter anyway?? Peter is a great guy, and he would never ever rape, or molest or even touch a girl at Elan. Do you know why? Because he's not stupid. He knows that they would go and tell on him the first chance they got and then it would be the end of his career/life/etc. He would probably be put in jail as most of the girls are under age.
So you're saying that he wouldn't have sex with underage girls because he knows they would tell??? Damn, I would HOPE that he wouldn't have sex with underage girls because it's FUCKING WRONG!!!!!!!!"
That's besides the point. Don't put words in my mouth. Thanks. "
That it would be WRONG to have sex with them is BESIDE the point??? WOW. Amazing. I would hope that it would BE the point.
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The point is, that Peter Rowe is my bud and y'all are making aquisations because once, a long time ago he told you something that you didn't like and now you're all out for blood.
The reason that I didn't bring up the fact that sleeping with students is wrong, is because that is a given. :wstupid:
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Apparently you can't say a damn thing on this site without being attacked. I was there just as you were. I was close with the staff. You don't think that they know you all are going to say this kind of stuff about them?
Joe R and Peter are two different people. I'm sure that Joe R did some stuff that was fucked up. I remember talking to a staff member on the phone shortly after he died, and I asked about Joe because I didn't know much about him. This staff member told me that Joe R was a very fucked up man, and that was all he would say. I'm not denying you the fact that he was. It's not like I'm in denial of the fact that there was stuff going on there that shouldn't have been. But unless someone has some cold hard proof about this stuff with Peter, aside from these outlandish stories (and let me tell you, people just sit around making up scenerios to get people going) then I will never believe it.
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Josie, one former resident has said she was raped by Peter and another admitted to having consensual sex, those are the facts. It is your choice who to believe, but did you know that Peter almost got divorced because his wife caught him cheating on her with a staff member? Did you know Terri Volk couldn't stand him because he always tried to get her to sleep with him. Remember, when you were there Peter was pretty young still. Think about it.
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On 2005-01-20 04:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Josie, one former resident has said she was raped by Peter and another admitted to having consensual sex, those are the facts. It is your choice who to believe, but did you know that Peter almost got divorced because his wife caught him cheating on her with a staff member? Did you know Terri Volk couldn't stand him because he always tried to get her to sleep with him. Remember, when you were there Peter was pretty young still. Think about it."
Who is this? (write me a private message if you don't want your name on here, I won't say anything)
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Well said Coz. First off, Outlaw has plenty of compassion, and it is unfair to attack someone you don't know. That said, I will have to chime in on this subject. Nobody spent more time with Peter Rowe during my bid than I did, on and off the premises. I was captain of the first basketball team, ran track and spent sundays at the gym and IHop with him. He pushed me and was a mentor. He was also a cocky bastard. While I cannot say I ever saw him act inappropriate or hear from any of my peers of anything, it has disturbed me that two past students have made claims against him. The two stories both make sense. Of all people I had a ton invested in the man, but I have to take these allegations seriously, and believe the victims until proven otherwise. This site spews lots of BS, but it would be wrong to ignore anyone who may be crying out for help. While I would like to agree with you Outlaw, there is way to much I know that gives me second thoughts, and that info I will keep between you and me if you want to know, you know how to get in touch with me.
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Sorry to hear about your college interview crap, but it does not surprise me. My mother had a kidney transplant from my sister, she was very ill and the doctors dod not give her a good shot at making it while I was a new resident. I was not allowed to see her( im from boston, two hour drive tops to the hospital) before. Thank God she made it. While I take resposibilty for the actions that put me in a place like Elan, I will never understand why I could not see my mother under those circumstances. I have heard many similar cases, and it is not jail, there is no reason to not let kids see ailing parents or family members.
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i could not have said it better Coz
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Ok, I took this whole thing one step further. I contacted an ex Elan staff memeber who still has ties with Elan. I figured that if I called Elan directly, they would either refuse to answer any questions, or lie, so I didn't even bother.
It is true, Tracy M and Peter had and I'm pretty sure still have a relationship, but I don't think it began until after she was a staff member, so fucked up, yes, but illegal? No. From what I hear the relationship has raised some eyebrows.
All the other stuff, is fabricated. It's just rumors that are being blown up from this whole Tracy M thing. Peter has his faults, but he is not sleazy, dirty, etc.
Not to be rude, but what sort of proof do you have? Some stuff written by a bunch of people that don't even have an identity? C'mon, you both know that people used to make up the most outlandish crap ever. I won't say any names, but JNAILZ, do you remember when a certain someone claimed to have broken cardinal rules with a certain other person, and got shot down, GM, the whole thing, and then it turned out to be a lie? You might ask why anyone would lie about this, and the answer would be, there is no reason, it was simply amusing for them.
There is nothing amusing to me about taking people's lives and picking them apart for no reason other than you believe what some baghead told you. I'm sorry if I sound arrogant that's not my intention.
I don't know why I even got so upset about this in the first place. It's not like anything that is said on this board is read by most people, I guess it just upset me to think that someone who I completely trusted would be guilty of that.
When I went to John Dewey, shortly after I left the owner was arrested for touching one of the students. Then I went out west, to this place called Royal Haven. I finished up school there, while living in this house in the country with five or six other girls. Now, all these years later, the owner of that program is in jail for pretty much the rest of his life for having relationships with more than one of the girls there, like 10 of them or something. I've never encountered a problem like they did, but just to think that these people I trusted turned out to be so completely evil is kind of awful. Elan was and is the only place with a clean slate as far as that goes.
What the fuck is wrong with the people who run these schools??? It's a disturbing pattern.
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On 2005-01-22 06:32:00, Outlaw wrote:
There is nothing amusing to me about taking people's lives and picking them apart for no reason other than you believe what some baghead told you.
Not to me either. I wish the programs would stop doing that to the kids in their "care".
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Hey Outlaw, I know what you mean about that resident climing he had sex with a staff member, but I think there is a huge difference between a guy saying he had sex with a hot female staff and a female claiming rape, don't you? I'm just trying to be objective. Give me a call if you get a chance.
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This is really crazy for me reading all of your posts. I am Joe's son Jason Ricci.I grew up with this man and saw him in every imaginable state of being amazing, Bad and ugly.
I have myself also been through confrontational therapy in a long term residential treatment program in Fl called the renaissaince institute as well as a less expensive residence I did in a West Palm Beach Jail. I make no attempt to qualify with you old school Elan alumni's as I know it is completly futile and pointless as times have changed at Elan and in other treatment centers everywhere.
After spending a few hours here and reading all your posts I felt the need to add one of my own.
My Father was not as you might imagine a convential Dad. I have come to terms with all that my Brother Noah and I had to endure in growing up with him,Joe as a Dad, the media, and his employees and friends. I feel no need to brag, complain or ask for sypathy regarding these facts and I do not need to disclose them to you all in detail in an effort to win your bad life/childhood award. There was plenty of very strange,lousy,scary,and wonderful,enlighting and brilliant moments I shared with my Dad.
I love my father very much and I cherish his intellect and passion and my overall memory of him as a man was one of greatness.This was not always the case for me and I have grown to this place over years.as many of you already know, My Father came from a very hard upbringing in New York himself and went through some experimental new programs himself there where he conceived the idea/ideas of Elan. I am not here to defend him nor implicate him in any misguided treatments to any of you, only to say I know for certain my Father wanted to do his best in life and fought for what he believed was right both at Elan, and in his other endevours.
I have gotten over a little in my time as well. At 17 years old I was homeless and a runaway, at 18 I was finding Drugs and booze for the first time, by 24 I was still homeless and a crack addict and in and out of jail and other institutions constantly. That year at 24 years old I went to the program I listed above. I will not go into leangth about the program but let me say in short I indentify and sympathize with what many of you have descibed about your time at Elan. I lasted 90 days there ran away/left A.M.A. (was a adult)and ended up doing a year in jail as a direct result from the influence the institution had on the judge, me, my family and the system in FL as well. I did my time...got sober, have been clean off EVERYTHING for 7 years now. I live a happy life as a successful musician in Nashville TN with my BOYFRIEND (Yes I'm gay for all the homophobes and gaybashers that run rampant on this site)a lot of that was the result of me making the most out of a set of shitty circumstances,unfair and yes Barbaric treatment, and more inspite of a long list of exuses I could start my own message board with.
I really believe there should be more people on this list helping people who feel they were abused at Elan stop abusing themselves and others now, and move on with their lives!
Thank you all for listening. I will be back here and will be happy to answer any questions any of you might like to know about me or Joe Ricci my Father.
Thank you Jason Ricci http://www.jasonricci.com (http://www.jasonricci.com)
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Jason, thanks for posting that.
On 2005-07-10 06:13:00, JR wrote:
I really believe there should be more people on this list helping people who feel they were abused at Elan stop abusing themselves and others now, and move on with their lives!
In all seriousnes, no sarcasm, I think you should try setting up such a site. I think it would be troublesome and often, if not usually, go wrong. But if you think there should be such a site, do it.
This site is here for another purpose, but only slightly different if you think about it. This site is about getting information out to the public; counter-advertising as it were.
So now ppl searching the net for placements for their troubling teens have whatever the hell this has turned into for balance. Did you know that some joker has set up essentially the same program to make gay kids straight? I'm not joking! Here, check it out!
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 09&forum=9 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10609&forum=9)
Don't hate the media. Become the media
--Jello Biafra
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Staff beat the hell outa us on a regular basis.Made us shovel snow with teaspoons for 18 hours.Wash dishes for 24 hour periods....
I didnt go to school there like many of you did.I went to a sack where at anytime,ageneral meeting would be called and we'd be stuck in the dining room for the next 12 hours
:wave:
Now that is the elan I know no school just 24/7 abuse Hi art!Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
--Albert Einstein
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This site is here for another purpose, but only slightly different if you think about it. This site is about getting information out to the public; counter-advertising as it were.
There you have it. Straight from the horses ass.
All the disgusting posts that go into this Elan portion of the site have a purpose: To provide support to the claim that TCs fuck people up, no good has ever come from a TC and the cess pool of people, no matter how intelligent or together they try to appear (you know who you are) who also contribute just as much as the anon fucks who post thier swill.
All dialogue is left to stay as a testimonial to onlookers that TCs produce evil fucking monsters.
I am in fucking awe that you idiots have not figured this out yet. This isnt a place to heal wounds of former elan residents, or try to make sense of the fucked up place it was or is. It is an ongoing mug shot of the effects of TCs. You are all being displayed as evidence that TCs create retarded fucks. Sort of like a slide show of before and after pictures of a nice productive kid turned meth addict. But without the before pictures, because most of us were miserable devious fucks before we went to Elan!
Ask yourselves this, If you were never in a TC, and came here to get the jest of it all, would you take any of this shit seriously? Would any of the stupid fucking drivel found here effect your decision to find a structured disceplinary atmosphere for your outtafuckincontrol kid?
Lets see here, a place where adults, some as old or older than even Artman himself, come in to rant and rave and argue and post sick shit. A reader would assume all of you failed the program, walked out of it with an attitude no different than when you went in, and would disregard every last word you idiots had to say.
There are an infinite number of kids in this country who NEED a place like Elan. What are the options? TO remain in a neglactful, abusive go-nowhere environment at home?
Teach parents to take responsibility for thier kids? yeah, what-fuckin-ever!
I honestly think this site has the oposite effect it tries so hard to have. If I were the parent of an out of control teen, this site would encourage me to find the POSSITIVE of TCs, and disregard the fucking swill Ive read here with complete faith that my child could succeed in a program with such a structured environment knowing that these TCs are a LAST RESORT to jail, and psychiatric facilities who use drugs and isolation to treat behavior problems.
I'd look in here and have a great idea of what my child would end up like if he/she FAILED a program such as Elan. But as a parent of one of the many many out of fucking control punk assed kids out there who are without a conscience, who abuse thier sibblings and others, who abuse drugs and alcohol, dont go to school, have unprotected sex, lie, cheat, steal and are destined to end up dead or in prison. What else is there? Some fucking school bus livin hippy fucking idealistic lifestyle like gingers is gonna make it all better?
Bullshit. Dont waste your fucking time trying to close all the TCs of the world, its as much a waste of time as trying to legalize hemp and realize any significant agricultural industry to "save the world"
Kids still need a place to go when they are out of control and all but helpless in a functioning society that leaves the weak and troubled behind!
Push your govs for strict guidelines in TC's Push for state level monitors of programs. On site monitors from a state organization who has the power to shut a fucking place down if there are signs of abuse beyond what goes on in jails and juvenile detention centers.
Push your legislators to draft laws requiring a state level employee be on site 24/7 to observe the program, and thier salaries are PAID by the TC itself. Push legislators to require annual evaluations of the effectiveness of state-funded occupants of TCs. See if they are getting thier moneys worth!
EVery state in this country allows TCs and youth treatment facilities. one goes away, another comes along and theres not a fucking thing you snivelers are going to do about it except get active at a state level. Make demands of your goverments to MONITOR these facilities closely.
Just a tidbit of info for all you fucks crying "its not fair" boofucking hoo.
I went after Elan with a civil suit of abuse. Elan settled out of court for less than I could pay my attorney to reprisent me. BUT, I then sued the state that sent me there and won, easily. Big money too. I have used a lot of that money to pressure legislators and locel govs to place higher demands on TCs and child facilities. Ive used some to work with the ACLU and create a lobby for childs rights.
Face it, TCs are not going to go away, and parents are NOT going to stop sending thier kids there. NO FUCKING CHANCE!
Waste your time here fighting for some cause, or do something productive. For the rest of you who have no fucking social life and come in here to post crap, and argue and, well, basicly do what Artman does, and play dad...go the fuck away.
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JR, congrats on your success. Ive heard your music and enjoy it very much.
I have to say that posting in a place like this is a futile endeavor. Far too many people take comfort in the idea that they are victims and no matter who comes along to dispute that, or even validate it, when its time to move on they wont budge.
I have to say I would rather not see you here. Sort of like seeing an innocent child wander into a big city. There are incredibly insensitive and sick people in here. Not what you need to continue your pursuit of happiness, challenge whatever fondness you hold in your heart for your dad, or validate whatever doubts you might have.
I only knew your father for a short 3 years while a resident of Elan, and an employee at the downs.
Weve all got dirt, his was exposed to far more people who have nothing better to do than keep kicking up the dust.
I saw the depth of your father first hand, the love in his heart for people in general. He wanted people to be happy and successful. He took an interest in those with challenges, and I could see it in his eyes that he really cared.
Please forget about this site. Continue doing what you love to do, and surround yourself with happy people.
Doug
dfoiusgh@yahoo.com
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And thank you, Anon, for so adeptly demonstrating the fucked up mentality of Program supporters.
In case you hadn't noticed, very few splits and pull offs spend much time in these forums. Mostly only long term Program vets, graduates and former staff. These ARE the Elan success stories, you moron! If you want to abuse and cow your child, be a fucking man about it. Get out that leather belt and force the kid to stare at a corner yourself. Don't wimp out by hiring someone to do it for you and them whine about our comparing notes on the issue.
The troubled parent industry is only a few decades old. It's essentially just another subset of the newage utopian cults. Odds are, it won't last any longer than Chautauqua.
Don't laugh when you leave this courtroom, thinking you have beat the system because you have looked these things up yourself. We are going to get you down the road.
Washington Superior CourtJudge Rebecca Baker
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On 2005-07-10 18:33:00, Antigen wrote:
"And thank you, Anon, for so adeptly demonstrating the fucked up mentality of Program supporters.
Huh? Are you retarded too?
If you insist on putting me on the other side of the fence Ill take the liberty of identifying my stance, since you adamantly refuse to recognize the far more reasonable approach I take, than simply trying to close all the TCs of the world.
I'm all for regulations, setting standards and forced guidelines for theraputic communities.
First, I obviously have to force feed you the concept that PARENTS CANT CONTROL THIER KIDS. Why do you refuse to accept this, and the vital need for an atmosphere which does?
Unless you have a fucking collar on your kid, you cant tell me you have any firm control of thier behavior. What about the parents who dont give a shit where thier kid is or what they are doing?
You also refuse to acknowledge that a double standard is taking place here. I cannot confine my child to a padded room if they are a physical threat to themselves or the rest of my family, but an institution can. I would end up in jail. Your claim is that TCs or any facility should also face criminal prosecution.
Parents have lost all rights to discepline above and beyond verbal confrontations. Could you at least acknowledge that parents either will not, or CONNOT control an out of control kid?
What planet are you from. Here on earth, kids use drugs, commit crimes ranging from victimless to barbaric. They do what they want when they want, and as tough as it is for you to accept, theres not a fucking thing any parent can do about it, even if they want to. Take that pill and swallow it Ginger. Its the cold hard truth.
So, now that you know this, and asumably wont counter with some far-fetched idealistic approach to how the impossible can be accomplished...what is your solution?
I DO support therapuetic communities and institutions of behavior modification. Why? read above.
I however clearly indicated that the current state of these institutions needs help.
These places need regulations, guidelines, and they need thier conduct closely monitored, period.
Your simple-minded approach to close them all down is just so laughable and such an idealistic and unrealistic vision that I cant help but ask with a smirk how things are going in your "save the children" campaign? Close any TCs lately?
Fuck!
In case you hadn't noticed, very few splits and pull offs spend much time in these forums. Mostly only long term Program vets, graduates and former staff. These ARE the Elan success stories, you moron!
Could you please provide some sort of backup or statistics for this claim? Put me on the "non-grad" list as you comprise it. Please provide some sort of information as to how you develop statistics of status among anon posters who have nothing more to say than "Marty fucks buffalos"
If you want to abuse and cow your child, be a fucking man about it. Get out that leather belt and force the kid to stare at a corner yourself. Don't wimp out by hiring someone to do it for you and them whine about our comparing notes on the issue.
I admire your ability to incorporate an ALLEDGED "issue" and present it as fact.
I do whine about you fucks comparing notes, but none of my whining has anything to do with the fairy tale that kids are getting whipped with leather belts at a TC. Low and behold though, my suggestions and efforts to monitor the discepline at a TC would insure that no kids ARE.
Your plight to close them all has no direct effect on what goes on in them while they are still open.
What is so hard to admit about the idea that we both ultimately have to same goal to stop abusive treatment of children who will not respond to any form of discepline in the home up to and INCLUDING the belt therefore being sent to a facility that confronts and modifies the behavior that might have gotten them whipped at home. or killed, or thrown in jail, or confined to an instution that uses drugs to control behavior.
Youll never admit that changing the TC is a far more valid and productive effort than closing them all down. You will never spell it out for the former residents of elan and other TCs that you are USING them either will you?
Every one here, no matter if they are a so-called "success" in whatever terms Ginger choses to identify you as one, or a split or sign-out have one thing in common, NONE have really considered thier role in Fornits. Ginger is using you all as examples of how "good kids" are abused and brian-fucked by TCs and become the troubled adults you are. You are her ammo, the poster kids for a righteous cause with little possitive results.
I see how Ken, and any other person who says "move on" are your nemisis.
As for Elan successes, they are not here Ginger!, The silence is deafening isnt it? Do you realize how many people are out there living normal productive happy lives after Elan?
I am one of them. If I were to be asked if I would recommend elan for a severely out of control kid, knowing what I know about Elan today, I would say "send him"!
As much as I didnt like being forced to be accountable for my behavior in Elan back in the early 80s, If any kid was as out of control as I was, Elan was an answer when considering the options. No, parental control was NOT an option! Get that through your fucking thick head!
The troubled parent industry is only a few decades old. It's essentially just another subset of the newage utopian cults. Odds are, it won't last any longer than Chautauqua.
Fucking hilarious!
Troubled parents are held far more accountable for thier acts on children than ever before. Parents are undoubtedly a direct effect on the bahvior of thier children.
So many of the kids today with behavior problems are the result of abusive neglectfull parents.
Children were forced to continue staying in these environments at home thus compounding thier hostility, and thier outrageous behavior. Along comes the righteous group that says we cant slap or spank our kids anymore. We cant confine them to thier rooms if they act out, we cant physically force them to stay in the house rather than go to the meth party down the street. So who's gonna do it?
Tell me Ginger...who the fuck is going to force these kids to behave, and take accountabilty for thier actions? My brother has only seen his 16 year old kid 3 times in the last year. In A juvenile detention center. He has spent upwards of $100k not only trying to find the kid, but mopping up the fucking messes this little fuck has left behind. The 16 year old kid raped his 8 year old sister. The 16 year old kid stole cash, and jewelry, and credit cards and a $40k SUV from his own family. He stole two pistols and they have not been seen since. This kid had everything, nice home, loving parents, a reasonably structured environment. What the hell do YOU do for a kid and many others like this? Close a TC that may save his life?
Who gives a fuck if the kid has to do dishes for 24 hours? Who really fucking cares if this kid that nobody knows, and would run away from if they did shovels snow with a fucking spoon for 2 days? WHO FUCKING GIVES A SHIT? If this "kid" was an adult, we would all be there to testify against him in a court of law that would put him in a prison where its OK to be confined in a cell for years on end, where its ok to restrain and sedate them if they are a physical threat to others or themselves. Where there are no treatment options for addictions and mental illnesses to people who NEED them.
Whats your answer Ginger? What is your fucking solution. Should we all send our fucked up kids to YOUR house?
Ill bet my left eye if you had the money you would be the first to open a TC for kids thinking you would protect them from other TC and then painfully discover you cannot do a thing for them either without incorporating forcable control!
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Funny how people come in here and intitiate a very valid and relavent conversation...and nobody replies.
This last post is a huge slap in the face to the "close TCs" crowd.
Isnt this site geared to providing a place for former residents of TCs to validate the need for justice within those TCs?
Seems more like a place for people to "compare notes" on what they themselves went through while all the children in them now face the possibility of the same treatment! What the fuck? Selfish?
Quit your fucking crying and DO something.
Ive said it a million times, and those of you who know me , know me by these words:
So many people here take such comfort in being victims, that any resolve to the terrible things that might have happened to you is ignored and rejected.
You all would rather display your scars and battle wounds than make any reasonable effort to put them behind you AND take a reasonable approach to avoiding it happening to anyone else.
Attempting to close all the TCs of the world IS profoundly laughable.
An effort to close all TCs is simply a tool you fucks use to display your own scars and wounds.
Im a victim, Im a victim, look at me!
Pathetic.
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On 2005-07-17 07:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Funny how people come in here and intitiate a very valid and relavent conversation...and nobody replies.
This last post is a huge slap in the face to the "close TCs" crowd.
Isnt this site geared to providing a place for former residents of TCs to validate the need for justice within those TCs?
Seems more like a place for people to "compare notes" on what they themselves went through while all the children in them now face the possibility of the same treatment! What the fuck? Selfish?
Quit your fucking crying and DO something.
Ive said it a million times, and those of you who know me , know me by these words:
So many people here take such comfort in being victims, that any resolve to the terrible things that might have happened to you is ignored and rejected.
You all would rather display your scars and battle wounds than make any reasonable effort to put them behind you AND take a reasonable approach to avoiding it happening to anyone else.
Attempting to close all the TCs of the world IS profoundly laughable.
An effort to close all TCs is simply a tool you fucks use to display your own scars and wounds.
Im a victim, Im a victim, look at me!
Pathetic.
"
Shouldn't this have "Hi-yuh Hi-yuh Hi-yuh Hi-yuh" in it somewhere? I thought THAT's what this thread is about...?
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You're right....
Me Marty grow up and stop whining......
hi-yuh hi-yuh hi-yuh hi-yuh
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I love how as soon as a REAL topic is brought up, the topic is brought back to "Marty fucking buffalo."
I couldn't agree more with the person who posted the most recent, intelligent topic. I am also glad to see that some of the folks from the 80s haven't dedicated the rest of their lives to whining about their abuse suffered in Elan.
I was in Elan in the early 90's for almost 3 years, I was pulled out by the state of Ct 3 months after my 18th birthday. It wasn't important to them that I finished what I started. They were more concerned with the amount of $ they were shelling out to Elan and also to provide me with my own apartment in CT.
I DIDNT enjoy my time in Elan, but I believe that it was 3 years well spent. I credit a lot of my current successes to the changes that I was put through- by the staff, the students, and most importantly by myself!!
I am one that speaks highly of Elan and any other place like it that aides in helping save lives of uncontrollable, out-of-control teens just as I was.
Just wanted to say how nice it is to see someone out there with half a brain embrace a "not-so-nice" experience and move on without placing blame on some place you were because you put yourself there.
As for the "hi-yuh......." Its really fucking old, dude!!!
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Maybe a study should be conducted to see if these TCs are effective at all. Everyone I know who graduated Elan (roughly 20 students) fell flat on their faces within months of their graduation. Most are doing fine now, but I believe this is a result of growing up (we?re talking 10-15 years later), NOT a result of the wonderful therapy they received while in Elan.
I do believe that dangerous people should be kept off our streets. Anyone who rapes an 8-year-old should be tried for his crime and perhaps sent to prison. I don?t believe that a teenager who talks back to their parents should be ?put behind bars? for 3 years. Since when is being an oppositional teenager a crime worthy of imprisonment? In Elan, you had some kids who were sent by the state because they had committed crimes and it was Elan or prison. In Elan, there were many many other students, especially the girls, who were sent there because their rich parents were tired of not being listened to and being disrespected and Elan was the place where they could dispose of their child for several years. Why don?t the children of the rich parents have a right to a lawyer and trial? Because no jury would convict them. On my 14th birthday my parents took me to court to get a ?divorce? from me. They were laughed out of the courtroom. So what did they do?they sent me to Elan.
So, what can we do instead?
Well, I?ll tell you what I?m doing. There was this 13-year-old girl who was cursing her parents, dropped out of school, smoking pot, and dressing slutty. Her parents wanted to send her away before things escalated. I stepped forward and took her into my house. I live far away from her home so she is away from her ?bad friends? and I am pleased to say she is doing great. She?s back in school, no drugs, talking with respect, etc. I did this just by providing a loving environment for her away from the bad elements that she familiarized herself with. She (like most of us) was a sweet girl underneath a very rough exterior. I didn?t put her in the corner; I didn?t scream or spit in her face; I didn?t put her in a boxing ring; I didn?t tell her how worthless she is. I am just trying to help her figure out who she is and do so in a nondestructive manner.
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Good for you, and I mean that with out ANY sarcasm at all. I did the same thing with my brother and it worked. I was fresh out of ELan @ 18 years old and he was 12. I took him in for the next 5 years and gave him a foundation to start his life from.
Some people need exactly the opportunity that you and I both gave and some people need a little more. Elan was the place that I NEEDED! I wasn't there for any crimes, but nonetheless, I was OUT OF CONTROL. There wasnt any person out there who was able to give me what I needed. I needed a loving environment with hard structure, accountability, therapy, relationships, and a place that wasn't going to kick me out with thte first sign of my disruptive behavior. For me- Elan was my only hope!!!
I thank god for the opportunity Elan gave me and the great relationships I made while I was there; Clare, Jenn H., Marc, Marian, Shalonda, Janine, Jeff, Alicia G., Emily, Lindsey, RPA, Jamie U...and even the newer residents that taught me so much; Steve T., Jeremy F., Ellie, Jenn F., and so many more. I hope every one is doing well.
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On 2005-07-18 10:29:00, Chrysta wrote:
" I needed a loving environment with hard structure, accountability, therapy, relationships,"
Are we still talking about elan here? Because this does not sound like the Elan I went to. Sounds like you were in Elan 3, Maybe things were different in 7.
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actually, proud to say I was in Elan 8 when Clare was the director. I know that we had a different experience in our house then you guys did in Elan 7. I never envied you guys. E7 was refered to as the robot house, E3 was refered to as the corrupt house, and E8 was refered to as the most family oriented house. I always felt that the staff always wanted the best for me (I have to speak for myself here.)
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On 2005-07-10 20:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
Whats your answer Ginger? What is your fucking solution. Should we all send our fucked up kids to YOUR house?
Ill bet my left eye if you had the money you would be the first to open a TC for kids thinking you would protect them from other TC and then painfully discover you cannot do a thing for them either without incorporating forcable control!
First, you'd lose that bet. Second, if your nephew actually did rape an 8yo little girl, he belongs in prison. If you send him to Elan, he'll likely move on up the chain and have authority over other children. And I'd bet my left eye they don't go out of their way to let the other kids' parents know how that all works. I have a problem with that! Would you want this kid working as nightman watching over your potty-mouthed 13yo son all night? I wouldn't.
Third, I readily and repeatedly acknowledge that there's a double standard. It's one of the major problems w/ the industry. There are good reasons why it's illegal to physically and emotionally abuse your kids. Sending them to strangers to do it for you doesn't make it any better. It only gives you the benefit of not having to deal w/ the messy details first-hand. It's still wrong and illegal and nearly always does more harm than good.
Fourth, the alternative is pretty easy to understand if you turn off the idiot box and crack a book once in awhile. Teenagers rebel against the way we're treating them these days because we're treating them inapropriately for their age. They're not little children; they're young adults. Down through history, people have been considered more-or-less adults at around the age of 15. The way we're doing it now, they can't do anything important till the magical age of 18, when we then expect them to suddenly and magically become adults.
I don't expect to control my 15yo daughter's every move and thought. I expect her to handle herself well enough by now. And, for the most part, she does. When she slips up, she's got a whole family to help straighten her out. When she doesn't slip up (which is most of the time) she gets the respect and trust she deserves. It may sound crazy as hell to anyone who's been swollowing all the psychobabal and fear mongering for most of your adult life. But it actually works. Kids don't grow up to be what you tell them you want them to be. Kids grow up to be what you tell them they are.
Finally, I've never been anything but straightforward about the purpose of this site. As for programs shut down, well I understand that the ppl who shut down the Brown Schools made contact w/ each other through this site. Look at how WWASPS is being marginalized even by their own industry. Every revolution eats its own children first, I guess. But I think this has happened largely because of this site as well as dozens of others very like it that have sprung up over the years.
Just look at how these groups work. Every last one of them incorporates strict controls on free communication in order to control the group. Take that away and things fall apart.
Guard with jealous attention the public Liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that Jewel. Unfortunately, Nothing will Preserve it but downright Force. Whenever you Give Up that Force, you are ruined.....The Great Object is that every man be armed.....Everyone who is able may have a gun.
- Patrick Henry
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I agree with you, Chrysta, on that point. Most (not all) of the E-8 staff wanted the best for us (possible exceptions are Jenn E. and Jenn C.) If there was one staff who dispensed the most responsible therapy, it was Marian. I liked Marc and Clare, but I disagree with them on significant issues. But they all wanted the best for us and are good people, in my opinion.
As for the Elan 7 kids, I am filled with pity. That house was AWFUL! Tania Merette makes me sick. Both of Elan's senior directors (Tania and Marty) should be fired.
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Fourth, the alternative is pretty easy to understand if you turn off the idiot box and crack a book once in awhile. Teenagers rebel against the way we're treating them these days because we're treating them inapropriately for their age. They're not little children;
they're young adults. Down through history, people have been considered more-or-less adults at around the age of 15. The way we're doing it now, they can't do anything important till the magical age of 18, when we then expect them to suddenly and magically become adults.
Ginger, you hit the nail on the head. I never thought of it that way. That paragraph alone, I think, will help me be a better parent when I have kids.
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Thanks, Pete. Check out just about anything by John Taylor Gatto, too. You can read his latest online for free @ http://johntaylorgatto.com/ (http://johntaylorgatto.com/) It'll give you some valuable insight into what goes on in regular public and accredited private schools and, hopefully, help you to properly support and understand your kids as they deal w/ it.
The clergy know that I know that they know that they do not know.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
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On 2005-07-18 11:02:00, Pete wrote:
"As for the Elan 7 kids, I am filled with pity. That house was AWFUL! Tania Merette makes me sick. Both of Elan's senior directors (Tania and Marty) should be fired."
Finally a little compassion for what us 7ers had to go through.
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That guy is interesting, Ginger. I am going to online college right now -- scheduled to graduate next year. For the most part, it is a complete waste of time. I feel like I'm just doing time so I can get a piece of paper that seems to impress employers. I already make pretty good money, but I've been told that somewhere down the line, dropping out could bite me in the ass. So I plod through it. Less than a year to go!
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On 2005-07-18 13:54:00, ShyGirl wrote:
"
On 2005-07-18 11:02:00, Pete wrote:
"As for the Elan 7 kids, I am filled with pity. That house was AWFUL! Tania Merette makes me sick. Both of Elan's senior directors (Tania and Marty) should be fired."
Finally a little compassion for what us 7ers had to go through.
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No problem. Elan 7 seemed like a jail. I'm sorry you had to experience it. And that "mighty, mighty Bucs" cheer! I still hear that cheer in my head sometimes.
Wanna hear a funny story? When we used to watch the Elan 7 cross-country people run, we used to mimic them by talking like Soviets in those bad '80s movies.[ This Message was edited by: Pete on 2005-07-18 14:21 ]
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Hmmmmm....
Everyone's Elan experience was so unique. I guess that's why some of us shout abuse while others claim, "They saved my life."
Aside from my being in the worst house, I remember I used to wish I was older. I was only 14 when I went to Elan. The staff treated me like such crap. I remember the older students being treated so much better. Especially the 17-year-olds. The staff was always so nice to them. I guess they didn't want them to sign out when they turned 18. Most of them did anyway.
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On 2005-07-18 17:06:00, ShyGirl wrote:
Everyone's Elan experience was so unique. I guess that's why some of us shout abuse while others claim, "They saved my life."
Same exact line w/ all of these programs. I think it's telling. If you ask 50 ppl who attended the same concert, some will tell you it was great, others will not be happy. But everyone will usually agree on whether or not it rained, who performed and what kind of crowd showed up. Not so w/ the programs. People have such starkly different perceptions of the exact same incidents. Why is that? What could possibly explain how one kid wittnessed another violently attacking someone and then getting gently, properly restrained while another kid standing in the same room saw a kid get his ass kicked for some trivial think like rolling his eyes?
Never underestimate the power of the status quo...America's schools are part of government, subject to public whim and will. By and large, we have the kind of schools that people want. While they acknowledge the need for improvement, in other people's schools, most American are reasonably content with their own.
--Former public school superintendent Ronald J. Perry, 1992.
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What could possibly explain how one kid wittnessed another violently attacking someone and then getting gently, properly restrained while another kid standing in the same room saw a kid get his ass kicked for some trivial think like rolling his eyes?
I don't know. What I do know is that I remember a little boy named Clyde. I think he was 12 but looked about 8. He used to wet his bed and he got beat up in the ring for that several times. Anyone remember anything differently? Anyone remember him deserving that? Anyone remember this being productive therapy? Anyone remember this "saving his life?"
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ging. Elan was in a class all its own. And it scard all of us deliberatly. Thye weak turned worse, the strong forcefully forget the worst of it and dwell on the rest. Elan staff pretty much was on the sidelines and provoked verbal and physicall attacks on our peers. They manipulated and harassed to the point where there was NO other option. And they will never pay for it. Not legally anyway. Lord knows what an individual all to himself may do; but looking through my records parents who send their children (in my time) sign all rights away legally clearing elan to do as it seems fit. Though by the by I plan on doing a visit unnotified again with a bullhorn (again) and venting as I did last year.
all the best to u and yours ging.
Mike
[ This Message was edited by: SyN on 2005-07-19 12:52 ]
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You visited with a bullhorn, Mike? That sounds interesting. What exactly happened?
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Mike, how much do you know about the other Synanon based TC's? I don't really think Elan was or is all that unique. Same thing is going on in a lot of these places.
Life may have no meaning. Or even worse, it may have a meaning of which I disapprove.
Ashleigh Brilliant
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Cant wait to read about Mike getting arrested for trespassing. BTW, Mike did nothing last year, all talk and all Boy.