Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 13, 2003, 04:12:00 PM
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very interesting that Carey feels everyone has a right to know everything
wouldn't it have been interesting if the people who were helping her and knew of her plans to rescue her kids would have used this same philosophy and called down to Dundee and her ex to let them know of all of Carey's very secret plans then they would have had time to wisk the kids away - Carey would have been devastated, her kids still in the program, and she would have spent alot of money for nothing
or maybe they should've let the Embassy know that she was going to get her kids on a plane home - begging the airlines and seemingly lying to them without the proper papers?
after all they had a right to know right?
or is it only regarding the care of other children and their safety that EVERYONE has a right to know - now what about others who may have the same concerns for their children RIGHT THIS MINUTE should we let programs know of their plans?
lucky for Carey those who knew cared about her and her kids and knew that letting everyone know everything would jeopordize her efforts and possibly cause her kids to suffer.
everyone does not have the right to know everything gosh why not let the Iraq bombers know what our next military plans are.
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This makes sense to me...Carey? Care to comment? Why DID you "share that information,,," huh? What? What? What was the reason? Be honest now...
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My advice is if you are the legal parent of a teen in a program that you don't want them in, go get 'em out. You don't need to spend thousand of dollars on middle men. If you are the legal guardian, you have rights. If you are not, you still have options. Contact an attorney who can advise you. All this covert stuff is hype and scaring parents is a favorite tactic these people use. Run from them. They want your money.
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You must have joined us recently. Good God, it was insane here around August. Good luck getting any cooperation from either party. It's already been addressed, and addressed and addressed.
Perhaps if you read some of these threads, you'll appreciate the relative peace we've had until the last few days.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&mode=viewtopic&topic=2614&forum=9&start=0)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=10 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&topic=2810&forum=9&start=10)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&mode=viewtopic&topic=2620&forum=9&start=0)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=50 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=944&forum=9&start=50)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=20 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=2778&forum=9&start=20)
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On 2003-11-13 13:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"very interesting that Carey feels everyone has a right to know everything
wouldn't it have been interesting if the people who were helping her and knew of her plans to rescue her kids would have used this same philosophy and called down to Dundee and her ex to let them know of all of Carey's very secret plans then they would have had time to wisk the kids away - Carey would have been devastated, her kids still in the program, and she would have spent alot of money for nothing
or maybe they should've let the Embassy know that she was going to get her kids on a plane home - begging the airlines and seemingly lying to them without the proper papers?
after all they had a right to know right?
or is it only regarding the care of other children and their safety that EVERYONE has a right to know - now what about others who may have the same concerns for their children RIGHT THIS MINUTE should we let programs know of their plans?
lucky for Carey those who knew cared about her and her kids and knew that letting everyone know everything would jeopordize her efforts and possibly cause her kids to suffer.
everyone does not have the right to know everything gosh why not let the Iraq bombers know what our next military plans are.
"
Maybe you people should have played straight with Carey instead of exploiting her situation and apparently, costing her alot of money in the process. DISGUSTING!!!!
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Hey anon - cite an example of this. Carey - why did you "share the information" with WWASP? So they wouldn't sue you? Yeah, if that's what you call freedom of information, you need your damn head examined... ::armed::
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Hey frog, what are they going to sue me for?
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For doing a good thing, probably. Why else would they try to sue anyone...You blew the whistle on them. But when they wanted to sue you, you offered up posts from another website so that they would leave you alone. Now you want to deny all of this. :scared: If this isn't true, answer this question: Why did you give peoples posts to WWASP without asking them if they minded first?
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very interesting that Carey feels everyone has a right to know everything
wouldn't it have been interesting if the people who were helping her and knew of her plans to rescue her kids would have used this same philosophy and called down to Dundee and her ex to let them know of all of Carey's very secret plans then they would have had time to wisk the kids away - Carey would have been devastated, her kids still in the program, and she would have spent alot of money for nothing
No they would not have done that. They needed me to do what I did in order to draw attention to the issue. They wanted me to think my kids were being beaten, raped and starved to death.
or maybe they should've let the Embassy know that she was going to get her kids on a plane home - begging the airlines and seemingly lying to them without the proper papers?
after all they had a right to know right?
What did I lie to the embassy about. I did not lie to them about anything. I did not lie to the airlines. I told them I had lost one passport. I had. I had an old passport for the other twin.
or is it only regarding the care of other children and their safety that EVERYONE has a right to know - now what about others who may have the same concerns for their children RIGHT THIS MINUTE should we let programs know of their plans?
I tell parents all the time that they need to be involved. I tell them not to blindly trust others with the care of their kids. I don't go around making things up as others do and I don't try to control others. I certainly don't go around recommending other programs to them. Programs that are just as risky as WWASP programs.
lucky for Carey those who knew cared about her and her kids and knew that letting everyone know everything would jeopordize her efforts and possibly cause her kids to suffer.
Like I already said, they did not keep quiet for me, they kept quiet because they needed me to do what I did. Big differnce.
everyone does not have the right to know everything gosh why not let the Iraq bombers know what our next military plans are.
We are not talking about our military and Iraq, we are talking about PURE and WWASP.
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Personally, I think all these program referral agencies are beneath contempt. How do they sleep at night? Probably very well, considering the fact they have no conscious and are morally bankrupt.
::armed::
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The question remains, Carey...Why did you "sell out" to WWASP? :???:
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I have to go on. It is apparent Carey that the gist of the anon post you responded to (i.e. the very last post that you made before my above post) was lost on you. Those were rhetorical questions. I don't believe that you realize this. Take a deep breath and think twice before you post again.
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you may have to wait awhile for carey, froderik...this time of year; snakes normally go into hiding.
however, she may be sheddng her skin?
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On 2003-11-13 21:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you may have to wait awhile for carey, froderik...this time of year; snakes normally go into hiding.
however, she may be sheddng her skin?"
Takes one to know one, eh Anon?
:rofl:
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Who is hiding? Not me. You must be refering to those who post anonymously.
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Carey says that someone tried to convince her that her kids were being raped etc?? that's interesting
I was told that Carey hounded a party who reportedly was raped at Dundee and Carey kept phoning and bothering them because they did not want to come forward - to the extent that the parent and said victim called others complaining about Carey and her inability to leave them alone and walk away (sounds like phone stalking) Carey seemed to think it was their duty to come forward to help HER situation with her sons - now to me this sounds like Carey was the one pushing for people to say they were raped at Dundee and others told her to back off that all victims have a choice to share or not to share -it's their choice - but Carey would not drop it and she lost alot of respect from others who were helping her and many discontinued efforts to help her
- with all of Carey's posts this kinda makes sense because Carey believes that everyone has a right to know and probably could not understand why the potential rape victim would not want to come forward.
wonder if Carey gave WWASP those emails? bet someone has them.
also VERY interesting are Carey's comments that everyone needed her story and efforts to share experiences at WWASP. That seems to point to her need to be the center of attention and when it looked like she wasn't going to be the queen bee with her name at the top of list with focus on her then she turned... has Lou Kilzer, George Miller or Huron needed her story- doesn't sound like it. It looks to me like this industry WWASP and others have created a HUGE plaintiff pool that will not soon be emptied.
I do not know the name of the reported rape victim and would not post it if I did - Carey should not either as she certainly does seem to know.
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Takes one to know one, eh Anon? :rofl:
Stupid ass post. I'll bet that was you wasn't it Carey?
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Give us a break, Anon. Did PURE place any kids from Dundee? JUST CURIOUS.
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I think every parent with a child at Dundee had a right to know about the rape. I think they could then make an informed decision as to whether they wanted their child kept there.
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No Froderick, that post wasn't Carey's. Take 5, you are obviously on overdrive.
:idea:
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On 2003-11-14 07:37:00, Carey wrote:
"I think every parent with a child at Dundee had a right to know about the rape. I think they could then make an informed decision as to whether they wanted their child kept there.
"
Hell yeah! Rape is rape. Whether it happens at the United States Air Force Academy (see this month's Vanity Fair) or a private school.
:flame:
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Allright that one was a little better there anon. I was just checking...
Carey, WHY DID YOU SEND THE INFO TO WWASP?
You still haven't answered this question.
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Carey,
You neglected to mention the young girl raped at Dundee also had a serious brain injury which necessitated emergency surgery.
The girl was in no postion to "share her story" with anyone,least of of all YOU.
You don't REALLY care about parents having the information so that "they can make an informed decision". Other wise why would you be condeming the so called actions of the trekkers. Which is it? Parents should know or not? Can't have it both ways.
Dundee was being scrutinized by the Costa Rican Government at the time you were HOUNDING the rape victim. Her info was not necessary.
My experience of you is that you are a callous phoney. How would you feel if one of your sons had been traumatized at Dundee and some well intentioned parent demanded they tell the details of being sexually assaulted.Pleeeeeease.
This information is over a year old. In the mean time kids at Tranquility Bay are probably lying face down with Jamaican knees in their backs for having expressed their displeasure of treatment from their captors.
Be useful.Demand proper treatment of these kids.
Get over last year's news.
One more thing .If you feel you had been duped by the folks from Pure, that your sons were safe at Dundee, by all means send them to TB. There they can complete and "Graduate the Program."
I'm sure WWASP will oblige you.
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Oh, so it's okay to be in the business of referring kids into a specialty school that pays big bucks for referrals-- as long as you beat the drum for industry reform? You are an idiot, Anon. Talk about you can't have it both ways!!!!
:flame:
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The news that a girl was raped and suffered a near-fatal brain injury is appalling. What happened to the person who committed this assault? Let me guess. Nothing??????
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I was told by the mother that they were going to hold the individual accountable here in the states. However, I don't think they did. I don't think they can, as the incident occured in Costa Rica. I think they would have had to press charges there.
By the way, parents could have been informed of the incident by the school, without ever having to disclose who the victim was.
One of the reasons the PUREst wanted me to let this issue go was because they did not want it to be seen as an isolated incident. It was a terrible thing that happened and I feel for the girl, but the cover up was what I wanted to expose not the victim.
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-11-14 09:16 ]
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Carey,
Contrary to what you say or think, it WASNST our story to share. There wasnt any cover up!
It was a tragedy.
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I was on the BBS when this incident took place. While I think it true in the very early hours afterwards, there was some attempt to 'cover up,' it wasn't successful, and it was know to the parents at the time what had hapened. There were request for prayer and people praying, and IMO, this is why the girl is alive and recovered today.
The parents knew about it is my point. No body needed mz bock to uncover anything.
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Anon,
No need to call names.
I am suggesting IMMEDIATE response to the situation at the speciality school in Jamaica.
I never, ever promoted for a referral fee.
It was not within my capacity to have families not be able to talk with their child for months and months and months.
REFORM is necessary .The sooner the better.
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I know you're watching this like a hawk-
Carey, WHY DID YOU SEND THE INFO TO WWASP?
You still haven't answered this question.
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so Carey did you give the emails of you trying to force the victim to come forward and of others telling you to back off and leave the victim alone to WWASP? sounds like there were many as you didn't listen and the complaints continued to come from the victim and family about you pestering them.
If others were so rabid to get WWASP why weren't they hounding the victim? they certainly had heard about it but it was YOU trying to lead the way and FORCE her to come against WWASP and the assailant.
did you follow your own policy that WWASP has a right to know what YOU did or did you feel that emails showing others trying to control you and you trying to force others to go against WWASP should not be available to everyone?
many others must have many emails - sounds like those emails could fill a thread here..and it may damage WWASP's star witness (YOU) against any conspiracy theory... and could cause WWASP to want to silence you?
BTW sounds like the rape may not be an isolated incident in the history of WWASP camps - there have been other allegations before. anyone who has done any research on WWASP would probably find those allegations so your arguement that others wanted it not to look like an isolated incident doesn't make sense.
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Sorry for the cussing, but i'd really like to see this b**** come clean already. This is worse that the OJ Simpson trial! :skull:
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Oh, so it's okay to be in the business of referring kids into a specialty school that pays big bucks for referrals-- as long as you beat the drum for industry reform? You are an idiot, Anon. Talk about you can't have it both ways!!!!
Could it be the lesser of two evils thing?
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If you trekkers will remember, I was trying to convince a judge of the inherent danger within the program. I was afraid for my boys. I wanted the judge to know about the rape so that she would understand my concern. However, without proof, the information could not be presented in court. It would only have been considered hearsay. It was very important to me that the judge know everything about Dundee.
Other parents on the BBS might have know about the rape and been satisfied with what they were being told, but remember I was not on the BBS and even if I were, that still would have been considered hearsay. My ex was on the BBS, I would imagine, yet he would not or did not admit to knowing anything about it.
Do you still not get why it was important to me.
did you follow your own policy that WWASP has a right to know what YOU did or did you feel that emails showing others trying to control you and you trying to force others to go against WWASP should not be available to everyone?
I have already told you, they can have all 7,000 emails, every last one, mine, yours and ours. I have not done anything wrong!
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-11-14 10:35 ]
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Why did you sell out to WWASP?
Oh, hold on...you added something there. It is NOT ok to take other people's email and turn it over to ANYONE, especially WWASP. You are fucked in the head. And you still haven't told us WHY WHY you did it. You cowardly little (censored)...
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-11-14 10:41 ]
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Because I am not a hypocrit!
I beleive information is vital!
I beleive my boys rights, as well as my own were, violated by Dundee et al. I want everything out in the open. I don't want any other family to be exploited by any group. I don't want information to be controlled by one group or the other.
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But you didn't ask thre people who made the posts if they MINDED you turning that info over to WWASP before you did it. You're full of it. And you still are skirting around the question: Why did you give the emails to WWASP??
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You people who call yourself Trekkers are demented if you think you smell any better than yesterday's garbage. PPPPPP-UUUUUUUU.
:cry2:
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Froderick 13, what is your problem? You don't make sense most of the time but it seems you are really off base on this issue. Why do you have a dog in this fight? Come now, let's here your story bucko.
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First of all, I'm not a trekker, if that was you before.
How am I off-base? I hate it when morons like you come on here anonymously and can't even back up what you say...
And, I make sense most of the time. Who the fuck are you, and what is YOUR problem, "bucko?"
Kiss My Ass! :wave:
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-11-14 11:22 ]
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Bucko???
Bucko?
No wonder you guys pick on children.
I got your Bucko right here buddy.
I tell you what. My dog will be watching from the window safe in the house while I fight :smokin: :skull:
Bucko .....I can't get over that one......Alex call the dogs inI'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I'm a human being first and foremost, and as such I am for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole
--Malcolm X
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Dogs on the way, hopefully. I've notified the Elan Forum... :skull: :grin:
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Carey,
7,000 emails? You have saved 7,0000 emails?
One would think you had intentionally planned this turn over of private emails to WWASP attorneys.
Intentional betrayal.
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I don't know Frod, but his posts have always made sense. Gotta back it up with a nice 'Fuck you Carey'.
So the issue goes;
Carey took some posts and sold them out to some widely known criminals. She did it to protect her own interests knowing that it would hurt others. She is somehow still involved with her ex lover whom she is still emotional screwed over because she's punishing her children by putting them in institution because she does not know how to handle the burden of truth.
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excellent reflection of meaning Animals
now Carey time to take a look at the real issue are you attention seeking here ?
That which does not kill you can make you stronger, but I really never needed to be this strong.
Scott Wagner
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No Kaadee I am not. I don't want to be seen as being on either side. I don't agree with the industry as a whole. It is far too risky.
I am sure the PUREst would like to see me just shut up and disappear just like Dundee would like for me to have done. I didn't and I am not going to.
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No WE'D like you to shut up and disappear, at least from this board, unless you come clean.
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carey,
did WWASP promise not to sue you and include you in a conspiracy theory to put them out of business lawsuit?
do you trust them?
to the best of my knowledge in civil law it does not matter what they promise you (even in writing)- there is no immunity and they could add you to a suit AND it sounds like that's exactly what they did when they named you in writing along with many others to reserve the right to sue in the future.
so I wouldn't say/think that you're different from anyone else who has shared their experiences and dis-satisfaction and you've corresponded with others so?????
just a little FYI
ya might want to get more counsel than your new friends at WWASP on this one. Just because you think you didn't do anything wrong doesn't matter. Who has done anything wrong?-the point is WWASP wants all anti-voices to go away and may try to slap suit you to achieve it.
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did WWASP promise not to sue you and include you in a conspiracy theory to put them out of business lawsuit?
No.
do you trust them?
I don't trust them anymore that I trust you!
to the best of my knowledge in civil law it does not matter what they promise you (even in writing)- there is no immunity and they could add you to a suit AND it sounds like that's exactly what they did when they named you in writing along with many others to reserve the right to sue in the future.
Like I said, I have not done anything wrong. I have only shared my experience. They can sue me, you can sue me, everyone who wants can sue me.
so I wouldn't say/think that you're different from anyone else who has shared their experiences and dis-satisfaction and you've corresponded with others so?????
Well I think that is what it is all about...sharing experiences. I guess the difference in me sharing my experience and PURE sharing their experience is the fact that I am not in the business of placing kids in other programs.
just a little FYI
ya might want to get more counsel than your new friends at WWASP on this one. Just because you think you didn't do anything wrong doesn't matter. Who has done anything wrong?-the point is WWASP wants all anti-voices to go away and may try to slap suit you to achieve it.
I don't have any friends at WWASP. I don't want any friends at WWASP. I am not looking for friendship from any folks in the industry. I couldn't aford an attorney if I wanted one. I am still struggling to pay off the debt already incurred as a resulf of all tht has occured as a result of the boys placement in Dundee.
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has WWASP paid you for the emails you've already given them?
How did you turn them over to them? did you mail them - did they come pick them up or did you take them to Utah?
if they do sue you - you say you cannot afford an attorney so would you just agree to never say anything bad about WWASP again?
it seems those may be your choices?
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from my unlegal mind- Carey - these lawsuits are civil actions not crimminal. They are not alleging any crime but WWASP is alleging that through defamation/lies they have been damaged and it has hurt their business and cost them millions..funny tho because they brag about how enrollment has only gone up so where's the damage?
you keep saying I haven't done anything illegal but that doesn't apply in civil court...your actions may have hurt their feelings :sad: and in our litigeous society that's all it can take
seems like you would have done some research here before diving in with them.
good news is the truth is an absolute defense yet you must be able to pony up for an attorney to get that far. but if WWASP loses a slap suit they are responsible for??
and the BEST news is that they are open to counter suits/discovery so they better think long and hard before adding to the list - there are many others who can afford to fight them and would love to file counter suits and Bobby doesn't seem to like to sit for depositions...
maybe they've been storing up all that $ for a transfer to the righteous?
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The facts: Carey went ahead and sent people's emails (posts, whatever...stuff ) that she had NO RIGHT to forward ANYWHERE, LET ALONE WWASP! Let's forget about PURE for a goddamn minute here. She should not have done that, period. No excuse. And then, THEN - when the people here were trying to find out what happened she denied, denied, denied, denied, denied, denied, and then FINALLY ADMITTED what she had done. This seems like a no-brainer. She's a coward and a liar on top of that, and STILL refuses to come clean as I write this. Let's call a spade a spade here. This shit is getting old...I wish it were over, but it keeps going, and going, and going, and going...
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-11-16 20:07 ]
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Froderick, did she admit something? Or is she continuing to deny it? How can it be both ways?
The only information that everyone agrees Carey sent to Lon Woodburry were pictures proving abuse at Dundee. I would love to see those pictures and share them with the whole world.
As to confidential emails, the only ones I know for sure that Carey's shared with anyone are the ones on this site. Do you see anything in any of those that might somehow hurt children or draw legal fire from WWASP? I don't.
All the rest is just rumor and gossip.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is
proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in
everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
--Herbert Spencer
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The only information that everyone agrees Carey sent to Lon Woodburry were pictures proving abuse at Dundee. I would love to see those pictures and share them with the whole world.
******************
Nope, everyone doesn't agree. That is not what was presented in another thread:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=40 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&mode=viewtopic&topic=3495&forum=9&start=40)
This comment was made:
Carey - please drop the issue you're doing exactly what I asked you not to do - pointing fingers and being, frankly, a bit pushy. I conceded already that Maria gave you permission to give Lon the pictures however I don't believe she understood what she was doing or who Lon is.
**************
Does that mean that Carey was in possession of the pictures? Does that mean that she had Marie's permission IF she were to gain possession?
Must be the latter because Carey followed with this comment:
I don't have them. I have never seen them. I have only heard about them. If I had pictures of kids being abused I would have turned them over to police and I would have made a copy and turned them over to the media. I surely would not be sitting on them for some law suit. That was my argument back then. I have to wonder if they really exist. If they do, and someone has been holding on to them, then that someone should be held accountable for any child who has suffered abuse since.
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Froderick, did she admit something? Or is she continuing to deny it? How can it be both ways?
She admitted to sending the emails, Ginger. But she hasn't told us why she did it, and why she denied it for so long. She sent them to WWASP. They weren't hers to send. Enough said. :flame:
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carey HAS given thousands of emails to WWASP and they've added many others including Carey (in writing) to a list they are asking for permission to add to the lawsuit - they seem to feel that after Carey's actions that she and others are acting to put them out of business and defame them.
it HAS been done weeks ago.
the questions that remain are was she paid as WWASP seems to indicate????
she obviously did not fully understand what she was doing as she writes like Sue's case is crimminal and she did nothing wrong yet it is NOT criminal and Carey is in the same boat as everyone else named except others may also have cause of action against her.
the point of this thread is to remind Carey of the facts and her hounding of the alleged rape victim..she was the one pushing then to come forward and others were telling her to back off. She was the one trying to force others to come out and others were telling her to back off and mellow out the choice belongs to the victim even if Carey had a Judge to convince- so what- it's still up to the individual with the experience if they want to come forward or not...others tried to get her to back off kind of like they've done here.
Sounds kinda hard to believe that she would hound a victim for her purposes yet after reading what she writes here it is very believeable especially since she seems to go by what is good for Carey at a particular time.
so Carey we have a right to know how much money you got don't we?
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Yeah, how much money did wwasp pay you for turning over that information Carey? Everyone knows you said you were in debt. How much did you get? :???:
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C'mon Ginger - Don't stay on the fence!!
Your time has come, Carey...
[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-11-17 07:40 ]
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Like I said awhile ago, if Carey really turned over all that material to WWASP that they couldn't have gotten, or couldn't have gotten easily, she'll rue the day. Not bcause of someone else on the trekers' list punishing her for it. But because of what WWASP will do with it.
Do we defame WWASP? By some definitions, we sure as hell do, every chance we get.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/ ... &va=defame (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=defame)
Is it illegal or born of bad intent? Well, no. I don't see a real difference between accusing someone like Ken Lay and accusing someone like Ken Kay. If you think Lay is not half the monster Kay is, you should talk to some of these old pensioners who will not be able to afford their heating bills in coming winters.
I don't know what Carey means by "My experience". But you're dead on. If she handed them evidence they could use to sue her for defamation, they'll probably do it. You'll be vindicated and right and get all the sympathy you crave. Bit it won't make me happy. It will be just another in a long string of tragic events.
What I don't understand is the reason for taking time, energy and cash away from something that might actually help kids, help shut down WWASP and have an overall positive effect for everyone but the bad guys just to punish Carey.
As to the issue of pressing the rape victim's family to come forward, I see both sides of that. I wouldn't do that to anyone. But a lot of people have a hard time understanding that, not just Carey. How many hours have you folks spent trying to pressure me into banning Carey from these forums cause that's what YOU think will help the kids.
This is especially hypocritical coming from ISAC ppl after all the disruption last summer around the time of the conference. And this is typical Program behavior. That's what gets me. You assume so much about other people's motives and decide for them what they should do. Then you go after them like a blood enemy, malign them publicly, threaten them, accuse them of all kinds of ill deeds and bad intent and then attack anyone who doesn't pile right on the attack.
So now you're suing. Great! Keep up the good work! I know some kid somewhere will be so thankful when they get out and find out that, instead of doing anything to help them, you're all consumed with this vendetta against Carey.
Somewhere in a post from last night, Carey linked back to the original topic back in May. You should read it over. Karen's response was particularly telling. She states outright that Carey's mortal sin had been to refuse to accept the group position.
What if the group position was wrong? What if the lawsuit never happens? What if the evidence is ruled out for some reason (or none)? Was it worth all this?
I swear by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
* - ~ Galt's Creed ~ - *
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Ginger, you think it is wrong to malign Carey because she isn't into "Groupthink". Well, I don't agree with the way she goes about her business (especially when she publishes my private email to her, asking her to not focus on PURE), but I can certainly live with it if I have to. But my beef is that *I* cannot be allowed to practice my own preferred method of ending behavior modification venues.
I think a great strength of the Internet and this fourm is to pony up anecdotal info to counteract every single lie that WWASPS puts forth in their advertising, that really strong presence that pulls parents in. Melissa is great in that regard...she KNOWS what really goes on, and can tell it in an interesting, easy-to-read form that visiting strangers to this forum will read. I also try to publish straight-forward stories that will be repeated by parents and neighbors and law enforcement folks and school administrators and church youth group leaders...the real people who remember "horror" stories and repeat them. If every time I try to tell a story, maybe about the reality of "school" vs. the WWASPS story of credentialed, high-achieving WWASPS students who regularly go into college (even if it is Southwestern Utah State), and my story/post is followed by Carey's bizarre ramblings about me being a PURE/Trekker/stooge who doesn't care about abused children because killing WWASPS is my "true" mission" [which only she can determine, I guess]...well, then, I object to her presence in a Big Way.
If Carey wants to babble about an ed consultant that most visiting inquisitive parents have never heard of, it dilutes the effectiveness of this forum. If Carey wants to babble about an ed consultant as a response to virtually every meaningful post, then she is killing the effectiveness of this forum.
Have you noticed that we are not getting many anonymous postings lately about "It saved my son's life, because he would be dead or in jail"? Do ya' think WWASPies are now satisfied, letting this forum die its own death from imploding?
I almost forgot the real purpose here, until The Source magazine came in the mail the other day, and Article #1 had to do with a mom's plea to keep your kid in until he graduates. OK, another anecdotal story: she pulled her kid before graduation, he turned into a little shit after a short time at home, she is convinced that if she handed over tens of thousands of dollars more, this wouldn't have happened, etc. Wouldn't we like to see the give-and-take on the BBS as the other clueless parents comfort her for having a failure child and saying it was not her fault but just bad judegement on her part to pull him early. God, I hope she doesn't have a younger kid...and lots of extra money to incarcerate him.
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Like someone said, when you're good Ginger, you are really good. As for Spots, I see your point too but disagree that Carey has not helped your cause, because the truth is, these ed cons and independent program referral agents are a big part of the problem, along with parents who also receive compensation for placement referrals. There are many layers in this corrupt, sinister industry. Peeling 'em back one-by-one is the way to broaden public awareness and get the attention of lawmakers who can propose legislation to plug the loopholes. Whether that was her intention, or not, I do not know, but it certainly raised awareness about an important issue that has lay dormant far too long. Just my opinion.
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Thanks, Anon. :smile:
Spots, not to be a wise ass or anything, but I suppose it depends on what the definition of "wrong" is.
I certainly wouldn't sit here and try to make a moral judgement about you or anyone else. So in that sense of the word, if I have an opinion I'm keeping it to myself.
I think it's a mistake, though, to let your anger toward this woman overshadow everything else. In that sense, it's the wrong thing to do.
All other things aside, it may also be a mistake to dismiss questions and criticizms of PURE as babble. I also worry about these people's younger children. Especially about them because that was me. When they packed me off to Straight, I don't think anyone even suspected what was going on. After all, the bad old Seed had been exposed and pared back to the one location treating only adults, so everything was just okee dokee, right?
I think it's a very legitimate concern and, regardless of what Carey might have done or said on another front, I'm interested in this aspect of the situation too.
Yes, I've noticed that we're not getting a lot of new takers. And I've seen this before. That bit about cleaning out older messages to save disk space? Well, I'm a lousey housekeeper, the database isn't even flinching and disk space is pretty cheap. So it's all there for anyone who cares to study the phenomenon. We're not folding, don't worry.
I think just about everyone around here has been seeing injuns behind every bush and reacting to that. I just hope the row is over for now and we can get back to the important stuff.
You're dead on correct, in my view. The most important thing is sharing our experience with people who are considering forced BM for kids under their authority and with kids who are looking for advice about what to do to escape the influence of adults who've already made up their minds and with people coming out of these places, thinking they're probably crazy and all alone in the world.
As far as I can remember, which is usually pretty far, you've never lost your mind and joined in on the more hostile attacks on anyone, even when you're attacked directly. I'm not confused. I know the difference between you and what you say and someone else who says something different. Your credibility remains intact. If anyone has trouble making that distinction, well I can't help that. But I have faith that, in the end, the truth usually wins out, provided no one is able to hide certain facts and protect lies.
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Perl Services
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As to the issue of pressing the rape victim's family to come forward, I see both sides of that. I wouldn't do that to anyone. But a lot of people have a hard time understanding that, not just Carey. How many hours have you folks spent trying to pressure me into banning Carey from these forums cause that's what YOU think will help the kids.
Good God! don't you think that this analogy is a bit of a s-t-r-e-t-c-h? Comparing hounding a rape victim to asking that someone be banned from a goddamn forum?!?! I'm sure you'll find some sort of pretzel logic to come back with, but I just have to say that this about the most half-witted thing that I've ever heard you say on these forums, Ginger...
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This is especially hypocritical coming from ISAC ppl after all the disruption last summer around the time of the conference. And this is typical Program behavior. That's what gets me. You assume so much about other people's motives and decide for them what they should do. Then you go after them like a blood enemy, malign them publicly, threaten them, accuse them of all kinds of ill deeds and bad intent and then attack anyone who doesn't pile right on the attack.
So now you're suing. Great! Keep up the good work! I know some kid somewhere will be so thankful when they get out and find out that, instead of doing anything to help them, you're all consumed with this vendetta against Carey.
I don't think anyone's accused her (gee, who could I be talking about?) of anything she didn't do. You go to great lengths to defend her I see.. Why is that? We're all wrong about things from time to time. It's ok to change your mind...and I think (but hell, what do I know, right?) that ISAC just might be capable of dealing with a couple of things at once. Just my thoughts here, and remember, I'm not of an org., just an observer throwing in his own goddamn two cents, which last time I checked was allowed, lol. Or is this board strictly for people on the "inside track?" Hell, maybe there ought to be A forum called "The Elite" somewhere on here... :lol:
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yeah, yeah, yeah! Word up...