Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Antigen on October 15, 2003, 04:10:00 PM
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[Male__] - Gender*
13_ - Age* 12-15-89 - Date of Birth*
(If your child is under 10 years old or over 17½ we cannot assist you.)
Please click the issues that best describe your child:
[X] Defiant [ ] Drug or Alcohol Usage
[ ] Underachiever [X] Undesirable Peers
[ ] Suspended from School [ ] Gang Involvement
[ ] Lack of Motivation [ ] Suicidal or Thoughts of Suicide
[X] ADD/ADHD/LD/ODD [X] Violent, Anger, Rage, Rebellious
[ ] Expulsion from School [ ] Sexually Active
[ ] Truancy [X] Withdrawn
[ ] Depression [X] Disrespectful towards Authority
[X] Other Dresses in black ALL the time!
__________________________________________________________________________________________
What type of school/program are you interested in?
[X] Military Schools [ ] Summer Programs/Camps
[X] Behavior Modification [X] Boarding Schools for Struggling Teens
[X] Wilderness Programs [ ] Boarding Schools
[X] Ranch Programs [X] Other I'm open to suggesti
Describe the situation that lead you to seek this service:
My son is a good kid. But lately, I think he hates me! Went on to mention yelling, ignoring directives, staying out with older friends and "Urban" music. (the horrors!!!)
Your IP Address: I don't know my IP address
SUBMIT!
Response....
Dear Ms. XXXXX:
We received your request for information regarding XXXXX. We commend you for taking steps to get your son the extra help he may need. We encourage you to contact our PURE Consultant, Susan Scheff, for a complete evaluation of Jeremy to best fit his needs. Her toll free number is 1-866-798-2285, or her direct line is 1-954-349-7260. This is a free consultation with a professional.
We pride PURE on finding the best quality schools and/or programs for your child's individual needs. As a reminder, our Director of Quality Assurance has done complete and thorough background investigations on the schools and programs we recommend. This assures you that the schools and programs are fully accredited, licensed, insured and have been researched for incidents. Education is just as important as therapy. Our programs offer excellence in both areas.
We thank you for being a proactive parent and wish you the best in your search.
Sincerely,
PURE Inc.
WHEN SPIDERS UNITE, THEY CAN TIE DOWN A LION
-- Ethiopian Proverb
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http://www.purerebuttal.com (http://www.purerebuttal.com) - Yes, maybe they can help, but it's the methods that they use that would have me running away as fast as I can! :eek:
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Are you saying PURe wants to know somebody's IP number?
:silly:
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http://www.helpyourteens.com/free_information.shtml (http://www.helpyourteens.com/free_information.shtml)
Yes, it shows your IP address at the bottom of the page.
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This assures you that the schools and programs are fully accredited, licensed, insured and have been researched for incidents.
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Is this an accurate statement.
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What it doesn't disclose is that even though they may have been "researched" for incidents, how do they know, unless it's been published in a newspaper (and we all know the inaccuracies of this!) or are in some way public knowledge?
ALL programs of this type have "incidents" - don't let that statement fool you into thinking the slate is "pure"
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http://www.helpyourteens.com/terms_of_use.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/terms_of_use.html) -
an accurate statement? You be the judge
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On 2003-10-15 16:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What it doesn't disclose is that even though they may have been "researched" for incidents, how do they know, unless it's been published in a newspaper (and we all know the inaccuracies of this!) or are in some way public knowledge?
ALL programs of this type have "incidents" - don't let that statement fool you into thinking the slate is "pure""
Exactly. By this standard, SAFE, Orlando would qualify.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Ginger,
Have you ever been employed by Coral Springs Medical as a unit clerk?
Have you ever NOT testified to help your peers?
Please run by & visit my fellow majors in your local area, the next time you get a chance.
Do I have a dog in this fight?? No, do I chose to use my free time to help others?you bet!!! At least I am attempting to correct the government & introduce regulations. Unlike others who do not show up for their friends in their time of need! Someone else may have benefited from you stepping up to the plate when it was your turn?just my POV.
Have I ever posted anon...? You know I have!!! Have you ever posted anon...? I know you have!
Regards,
Lee
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What is your problem with PURE or Sue Scheff? How do you know if she researches the facilities or not? How can you possibly waste your time and others sending ridiculous letters to PURE, to try to prove she doesn't? Why not concentrate on people like Carey Brock who have such a mental problem that they are trying to defeat any good any one is doing for the kids? Do you believe that she didn't give info to WWASP? She did and that has hurt alot of kids. Do you condone that? If you are really a survivor, you will help others, not help someone as nuts as Carey. I work with a lot of survivors and have the utmost respect for them. You don't fit in their category. Are you sure you are a survivor or just someone who likes to argue? And no, I don't mind signing my name.
Blanche
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On 2003-10-15 16:34:00, turbinekat wrote:
"Ginger,
Have you ever been employed by Coral Springs Medical as a unit clerk?
Why no, actually, I have not. Why would you ask?
Have you ever NOT testified to help your peers?
Not if I thought it might help, no. Why would you ask?
Please run by & visit my fellow majors in your local area, the next time you get a chance.
Excuse me? In English please?
Do I have a dog in this fight?? No,
Ok then, so Sue should take your names and email addresses off of the PURE site and quit sharing confidential info with you. Right? Since you don't work for PURE, what business is it of yours who makes inquereys to them or what they say about themselves in those forms?
Is anyone's irony detector going balistic right about now?
:rofl:
do I chose to use my free time to help others?you bet!!! At least I am attempting to correct the government & introduce regulations. Unlike others who do not show up for their friends in their time of need!
Boy! For someone who never even knew I existed till this year, you sure think you know a lot of factual info about me, huh? Did Marti tell you that I'm tormented with guilt or something? Marti's not always the most reliable sorce for info, Lee. You'll figure that out sooner or later. But don't say I didn't warn you.
Now, as I've said before, I've had just about all the help I can stand and so has the Youth of the Nation. Please, please just quit HELPING so damned much!! The road to hell is paved with good intentions. May you reach your destination sooner, rather than later.
Someone else may have benefited from you stepping up to the plate when it was your turn?just my POV.
Or some undeserving soul might have been seriously hurt by it. You should really consider that my POV derives from actually having been there while your POV is based entirely on what some stranger on the net tells you happened.
Have I ever posted anon...? You know I have!!! Have you ever posted anon...? I know you have!
Indeed I have. Which is why I don't go around saying things like "Take that anon bag off your head..." asif it's something to be ashamed of.
Lee, just some advice. When you look around and find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is to quit diggin.
This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
Adolph Hitler
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You may want to remove the child's name in the future, just to protect a minor. Again, just my POV.
Regards,
Lee
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Well hi Blanche. It's a distinguished.... well, certainly different to meet you (NOT!)
What makes you think I have anything against PURE or Sue Scheff? If you have some problem with the inquery form, the questions asked or the response that they sent me, take it up with the authors. I didn't come up with this shit. I just got curious about what PURE is doing and thought I'd find out for myself. Is this supposed to be secret or something???
What's this apparent fixation w/ Carey, anyway? Do I believe that she didn't give info to WWASP? No, I have no proof that Carey didn't give all your scary secrets to WWASP.
By the same token, I have absolutely no evidence that you haven't got a basement full of hitchhikers. Now, admit it! You've got a basement full of starving, half dead and half decayed hitchhikers don't you, DON'T YOU!!! You know it. I know it cause some stranger on the net said so and so we all know it's true, right????. They're starting to reek and soon everyone will know it too so you may just as well fess up now!!
:roll:
" Why not concentrate on people like [pick your scapegoat] who have such a mental problem that they are trying to defeat any good any one is doing for the kids?"
Now.... where oh where have I heard something like this before?????
So... when will you guys start making the case that you're completely different from WWASP? Please. This stuff is getting old. I'd really like to see some evidence to support your claim that you're helping the children and anyone who get's in your way is an evil, crazy, bad, bad person.
In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."
--Thomas Jefferson 1798
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Oh no!! Poor Jeremy Sullivan of LHP, FL!!
:rofl: :rofl:
Lee, just in case someone by that name does exist, please don't get yourself in trouble trying to 'help' him. Florida is notorously unforgiving of stalkers, especially where children are concerned.
Hear me people: We now have to deal with another race - small and feeble when our fathers first met them, but now great and overbearing. Strangely enough they have a mind to till the soil and the love of possessions is a disease with them. These people have made many rules which the rich may break but the poor may not. They take their tithes from the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule.
Chief Sitting Bull, speaking at the Powder River Conference, 1877
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No rainbow chasing here, Mrs. Warbis. I only speak with those people who contact me via my email account or telephone number...
Your welcome to contact me... as did two others today. Gotta help the kids Ginger that's what it's all about. Someone helped you ...didn't they?
Off to starbucks for the evening motorcycle ride with my family & friends...will return soon, wouldn't want to miss any of the psycobable presented here for the world. I know you're in it for therapy... or some other good reason?
About the hole...how do you know my destination isn't the other side? Or my therapy?
Regards,
Lee
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Lee - do the people that contact you ever see through the blinders of what PURE is. It's a slam sight disguised as help. It's self-serving and I see no other purpose.
Why would PURE want WWASP to close their doors? Wouldn't that be business suicide? The whole site bashes wwasps, so what would you/they have left?
Also, do you refer them to sensationalized newspaper articles that would seem to confirm your allegations. Or do you just state your own child's experience in your words for them?
Exactly what is in this for you? Don't give me the bologna of satisfaction.
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On 2003-10-15 18:43:00, turbinekat wrote:
Your welcome to contact me... as did two others today. Gotta help the kids Ginger that's what it's all about. Someone helped you ...didn't they?
Sure, like I said, my dad helped me immensely when he quit drinking the kool aid. When are you going to do the same?
Off to starbucks for the evening motorcycle ride with my family & friends...will return soon, wouldn't want to miss any of the psycobable presented here for the world. I know you're in it for therapy... or some other good reason?
About the hole...how do you know my destination isn't the other side? Or my therapy?
Regards,
Lee"
Like I said, may you reach your destination sooner, rather than later. Arms in the hands of citizens [may] be used at individual discretion...in private self-defense...
-- John Adams, (1788)
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On 2003-10-15 18:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why would PURE want WWASP to close their doors? Wouldn't that be business suicide? The whole site bashes wwasps, so what would you/they have left?"
Taking all your business, maybe? Why would Burger King want to see McDonalds go under?
Don't hate the media. Become the media
--Jello Biafra
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The discovery blinders, the vision illusions or the focus fallacy?
You lost me on PURE wishing to close wwasp's...ain't my fight...don't have a dog in that one. May have one soon though!?
I never mentioned anything written in a newspaper article. I never mentioned PURE either. Although, I did find a book today which does reference PURE in it? Very professional writer out of San Fran... I believe?
I did question where the very nice person found my number & their response was...get this; THE HELP YOUR TEENS.COM SITE. They found it under volunteers!?
Actually, after I spoke with the very nice person today...my son completed the conversation with his experiences at CBS.
In it for me...you ask? The kid?s man or woman...the kids!!! You can make a sandwich with it if you want?
Regards,
Lee
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So Lee, you're saying that the call you received from the parent today was not about the programs PURE refers to, but about your son's experiences at CBS? It would seem to me that if they were looking for help for their child you would address why they were on the PURE site. The conversation was about what they don't want vs what they do want. Did you tell them that what PURE offers is "better?" If so, do you have inside personal knowledge of the schools PURE offers since you are on their volunteer list?
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On 2003-10-15 20:15:00, turbinekat wrote:
"The discovery blinders, the vision illusions or the focus fallacy?
You lost me on PURE wishing to close wwasp's...ain't my fight...don't have a dog in that one. May have one soon though!?
I never mentioned anything written in a newspaper article. I never mentioned PURE either. Although, I did find a book today which does reference PURE in it? Very professional writer out of San Fran... I believe?
I did question where the very nice person found my number & their response was...get this; THE HELP YOUR TEENS.COM SITE. They found it under volunteers!?
Actually, after I spoke with the very nice person today...my son completed the conversation with his experiences at CBS.
In it for me...you ask? The kid?s man or woman...the kids!!! You can make a sandwich with it if you want?
Regards,
Lee
"
Monkey See, Monkey Do.
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Lee wrote: "I did question where the very nice person found my number & their response was...get this; THE HELP YOUR TEENS.COM SITE. They found it under volunteers!?"
Lee - the way you wrote this, it seems to come as a surprise? that they found you on that site???? ::noway::
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Lee Writes (as excerpted from his post)
"You lost me on PURE wishing to close wwasp's...ain't my fight...don't have a dog in that one. May have one soon though!?"
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Lee et al, seems to me you got a dog in this fight, allright, but that dog don't hunt about as good as it don't fight.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Which ever anon. I'm responding to...the person never asked about PURE. Yeah, you read it. Yes, my son's experience...?
Not my objective to ask anyone why they found my story on PURE's site? One more time anon...No, I'd didn't mention PURE, at all.
I know of one & only one school PURE refers to. Kind of ironic, when I was looking for help for my family, I contacted this same school without any prior knowledge of the teen help industry or the nightmares. I spoke with the owner, explained our circumstances...they basically explained to me that their school / program / what ever someone wants to refer to them as, could not accept a child of seventeen +.
The gentleman I spoke with said he could take our money & incarcerate our son until he was 18...but they did not recommend this scenario. Neither of us would benefit except his profits would increase due to our payments. I respected this person's input & continued on my merry way.
It all boils down to this...I don't, never will nor do I have the education to assist a family in choosing a program. I wonder if anyone enrolling children at wwasp's hotline has any formal training or education to do the same.
Do I have the education, experience & knowledge of what my family went through...by all means yes. Do I have a right to speak out about our experience pertaining to our dealings with behavior modification programs...why hell yes...thanks to people like my dad who was a warrior for this great nation & defending freedom when ever he was ask to!!! As you can tell I'm kinda partial & proud of ol' pops brings tears to my eyes.
Back in a few?gotta go potty!!!
Give it your best shot!!!
Regards,
Lee
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Lee- not taking pot shots - just thinking here that you were hell bent on finding a program that would take those close to their 18th birthday and you found CBS? Did you expect different results like your son choosing to stay after his 18th birthday and transferring to an over 18 program? I take it he hadn't had enough time there to see that as an option and chose to leave when he turned 18? Has this had anything to do with feeling like teen help lied to you about something? If so what?
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Anon. Wasn?t hell bent...yes concerned? I didn't find CBS, wwasp's recommended it.
I'd have to answer my son & I picked it out. I took wwasps's for granite; at their word & being experts in their field. WOW, did that ever back fire.
I believe wwasp's reasoning behind CBS was exactly that, so our son could roll over into the eighteen & up program. Oh, no, they never did explain to him about the 18 & up program. He never chose to leave we picked him up & was he ever thankful. Wwasps would never speak to him about the eighteen & up program. All of his letters mentioned this same fact. Then when I tried for a week straight to contact the director, manager, & our FR with no response... I made a decision that wwasp's was not looking out for the best interest of my son or my family.
Teen help did lie...I'll save that for court!
The director lied as well on voice recording...again all in due time / court.
Then once we saw him at CBS & his loss of weight; was a definite deciding factor in removing him immediately. If you wish to read my story, surf the net or visit the website mentioned on this forum. Hey send me an email & I'll forward our experience of behavior modification schools. I wasn't impressed at all with them.
Regards,
Lee
[ This Message was edited by: turbinekat on 2003-10-15 22:48 ]
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Lee, I don't care about this little tempest in a teapot between PURE and WWASP.
What I care about is that we all know WWASPs claim that the PURE site is just a slam site is patently false. I know this because, many months ago, I called Sue up to see what she was about. During our conversation, she had to go right quick because there was an intake going on. "An intake?" one might ask incredulously? That's right, an intake. And, aparently, the kid wasn't game for it. That was the big emergency.
Then I find out that PURE (used to) advertise "escort services". In fact, that's what I was wandering around there looking to see last night, if they still advertise the escort services or if that detail has bee relegated to that info set which must be attained through more indepth personal contact.
Does it bother you at all, Lee, that you're affiliated with an organization that promotes pseudo-legal kidnapping of teenagers without any kind of due process? As a lawyer, an American, a Texan and the son of a sailor, does that not gnaw at your innards just a bit? Do you ever wake up from dreaming that one of your loved ones has decided that you need help you don't want and those damned Marines are standing over your bed?
who needs regular piss tests more than a former blowski who has his finger on the button?
--Chuck Beyer
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Your previous conversations with others does not intrest me in the least. What the two, three, four or group of you discussed is not my concern, either. When did I become anointed a PURE expert? By you or anyone else?
My self proclaimed "battle", as you called it; is NOT in the mixed up WWASP's vs. PURE issues!
Fact of the matter is, the word "volunteer" has a few of you stumped!
Does it bother you at all, Lee, that you're affiliated with an organization that promotes pseudo-legal kidnapping of teenagers without any kind of due process? As a lawyer, an American, a Texan and the son of a sailor, does that not gnaw at your innards just a bit? Do you ever wake up from dreaming that one of your loved ones has decided that you need help you don't want and those damned Marines are standing over your bed?
Just because a person's name is attached to a website does not make them a part of that organization...how much simpiliar does it get?
As far as being a lawyer..I not nor ever claimed to be one. Do I have a few at my disposal...I'd hope everyone has good legal council?
As far as being American...Yes judge warbis I am.
As far as being a Texan...again, judge warbis, I'm guilty of being born in Texas & currently residing here.
As far as being the son of a sailor...not I, judge warbis. Pops was a damn good fixed & rotary wing pilot, First Cavarly Infantry Division, if my memory serves me well. Chest full of medals in a war which you proclaim to regard as questionable? Did he want to go...hell no! Did I as a child want my father to go...hell NO! Did he...yes & fought like a SOB to ensure OUR safety & freedom! Do I need to bring a bunch of his old war buddies over here to discuss the wars of our nation with you. Because, my experience of war...has only been through what I have read. Thank the good Lord, that their are people on this earth like my father that do step up t the plate when their number has been drawn.
Just had a complete physical recently, innards are fine according to the doc.
No, jar heads standing over my bed at night? Nor have I ever had anyone inform me that there needed to be. Why is there one?
Regards,
Lee
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On 2003-10-16 07:23:00, turbinekat wrote:
No, jar heads standing over my bed at night? Nor have I ever had anyone inform me that there needed to be. Why is there one?
So how do you feel about PURE advertising pseudo-legal kidnapping services? Do you have any empathy for those kids who they drug, shackle and kidnap from their beds? Do you ever imagine yourself in their place? Cause if you think it can't happen to you, you're halfway there. Word to the wise, Lee. If/when you begin to come out from under the haze and see PURE for what it is, remember what they're doing to Carey right now. Step lightly till you're close enough to the door to make a clean exit. Do NOT piss them off!
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.
George Washington
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***Just because a person's name is attached to a website does not make them a part of that organization...how much simpiliar does it get?
Lee,
What is the definition of a PURE volunteer?
As a volunteer in all the organizations you mentioned previously, you work to support the efforts of those organizations.
That is the common definition.
If you're not a volunteer in the usual sense of the word, then shouldn't your name be listed elsewhere, say under "_________"- whatever accurately describes your relationship with PURE.
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Is there some sort of "SHAME" in being a PURE volunteer? I am proud to share that I am a VOLUNTEER for several organizations. I assist in any way I can for the GOOD of those organizations and have never once slammed another similar organization. What I read here, there may, in fact, be some hidden agenda and shame in admitting being a PURE volunteer??
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On 2003-10-16 13:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Is there some sort of "SHAME" in being a PURE volunteer? I am proud to share that I am a VOLUNTEER for several organizations. I assist in any way I can for the GOOD of those organizations and have never once slammed another similar organization. What I read here, there may, in fact, be some hidden agenda and shame in admitting being a PURE volunteer??"
No, but there's shame in duplicity and in stupidity. When I ask you specific questions about PURE, you claim to know nothing about them; "not an expert", you say. If this is a true statement, then you must be dumber than paint to allow them to use your name on their website. But I suspect this is just not ture. You know the answers to my questions. You just don't want to say.
Which brings us to duplicity. You didn't volunteer the information that you're a PURE volunteer. In fact, when Carey mentioned that you're affiliated with PURE, you came back almost immediately with a rather hostile and indignant skreed, accusing her of lying about your working for PURE and stating that neither you nor your wife have ever represented PURE. Then you tell me you're not a lawyer, in between boasting about 'saving the life' of another kid, who's parents called you after getting your number from PURE.
So now that we've established that you do, indeed, work for PURE in a voluntary capacity similar to that of a volunteer toy drive or whatever, I suppose we're ready to learn and new and interesting definition of the term (of art?) "represent".
But of course, if you're tired of attacking Carey, I suppose you'll want to go over to Marti's forum where you can attacker her without being challenged.
Have lots of good fun!
Whenever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
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Anon you said:
Is there some sort of "SHAME" in being a PURE volunteer? I am proud to share that I am a VOLUNTEER for several organizations. I assist in any way I can for the GOOD of those organizations and have never once slammed another similar organization. What I read here, there may, in fact, be some hidden agenda and shame in admitting being a PURE volunteer??
What, you are so proud you forgot to say who you are. Seems to me the Anon post means your ashamed...don't want anyone to know.... ::bigsmilebounce::
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Carey and Ginger: I wrote that, not Lee. I am not affiliated with PURE in any way :wink:
I was just saying that I AM PROUD of volunteering with several organizations. The local National Organization of Women, a local hospital and a book club. I am on their "volunteer list" and am very proud of the difference I make.
What I see in Lee and other volunteers with PURE is that they aren't proud and seem to be ashamed to admit their role over there.
Betsy
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Oh, sorry. (Doh!) Thanks for clearing that up.
You have rights atecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.
John Adams
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Ladies...I'll allow yawl to spat between the three of you on this one.
Thanks for the ownership Betsy. I can respect someone stepping up to the plate when it is their turn. Ain't no shame in my game, just way to MANY false accusations...thrown around by the moderator & her accomplice!
This just proves it ms. ginger...your therapy maybe all you have left. You may want go get some real help!!! Maybe call momma & beg for forgiveness? Ta! Ta!
Regards,
Lee
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On 2003-10-16 15:45:00, turbinekat wrote:
"Ladies...I'll allow yawl to spat between the three of you on this one.
Thanks for the ownership Betsy. I can respect someone stepping up to the plate when it is their turn. Ain't no shame in my game, just way to MANY false accusations...thrown around by the moderator & her accomplice!
This just proves it ms. ginger...your therapy maybe all you have left. You may want go get some real help!!! Maybe call momma & beg for forgiveness? Ta! Ta!
Regards,
Lee
"
You're nuts. Ginger's the sanest person on here, as far as I've been able to tell reading for the past handful of months.
Those of you telling each other how much they need therapy or tossing psychobabble around are the ones who come across as very "vivid."
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Lee wrote:"Ain't no shame in my game, just way to MANY false accusations...thrown around by the moderator & her accomplice!"
I'm not so sure these are false accusations, but I'm not so sure they're true accusations, either.
What I know is that the PURE website is based on bashing WWASPS. If you read the other forums here - STRAIGHT, CEDU, etc., you'll find the same stories, different programs. I don't see any of their stories over at PURE.
So, I've drawn my own conclusion.
One - PURE has been gaining volunteer support from ex-wwasps parents and relatives.
Two - The purpose of the volunteer support is to add fuel to their fire by talking to parents in crisis about what NOT to do.
Three - Do they really refer to kinder, gentler behavior modification schools? Does anyone really know besides the PURE Director and her wayward staff? IS THERE a gentler, kinder BM??
The quote "Wherever You Are Be There" comes to mind, Lee. You're either in it 100% or your not. If you are, then be proud of it. If not, you may want to take your volunteering to someplace else where you have a "warm and fuzzy" about helping with their purpose.
The purpose of PURE, from reading their site, is very much against what feels good for me. Someone might get it that if they changed their site to stand on their own merit, it could benefit more than creating fear in parents in crisis.
Lee, and the other volunteers may well be assisting in creating even more fear and confusion for those parents. :scared:
And you guys talk about how Teen Help creates fear! They don't even begin to close in on this, from everything I know.
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In my view, when your kid is as tall as you are and doesn't care for your advice or direction, they don't need it. The accusation "you can't control your kid" is based on the false premis that the grown folk who our society, in the last hundred years or so, have come to define as "kids", need to be controled by a handler.
They don't need to be "controled". I think if you're both conciencous and fortunate, your kids will voluntarily adopt enough of your culture and ethics to never come into major conflict with you. But some kids are explorers and some kids have idiots or assholes for parents. Either way, it's a mystery to us old folks. They have to figure it out for themselves.
PURE and WWASP share that same basic premis that, if you're worried about your kid, you must do something to stop them from doing whatever it is they're doing to figure it out for themselves, even if it involves hiring off duty SWAT team members to take them by force, without a trial or the right to face their accuser.
That's where I have a problem with both of them. That and that all too familiar cultic habit of demonising and smearing all critics.
I don't think PURE is creating unfounded fear. As hard as some of this stuff is to accepte, given my experience in a synanon, it's not the least bit implausable or even surprising. I just think it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black and believing it.
America when will you be angelic
When will you take off your clothes....
America after all it is you and I who are perfect
Not the next world.
--Allen Ginsberg
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Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
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I think the problem really comes when
people begin to look at their children as problems to be solved. This is an entirely unnatural view, and usually stems down to a lot of selfishness rooted from insecurity in the parent, or just miseducation and shityy paradigms.
People are human beings. They need to be nurtured, and they need to be accepted.
As soon as they are looked at as problems to be solved, we have lost touch with our humanity and we are in some dangerous waters.
A person is not an equation..
I am sure that there are actually people out there who look for the RIGHT PROGRAM for their kid. There is an assumption there, that the child needs a program in the first place. Where did this idea come from?
"Well, Billy has problems! He needs something! Nothing we have done has helped him! We have had the minister talk to him. We ve done this and that! He s unresponsive. He doesn t listem to people anymore. What else can I do?"
I say that you could leave the poor kid alone, and just see what happens..
First thing you might not wnat to do, is force him to leave his own family and go elsewhere.
Accepting children for who they are, I think is the best that you can do for them. Have a sense of humor about life. Let a kid fuck up from time to time.. Let them explore and find out who they are.
For every adult who attributes in a touching story how some program made him/her so much better off today, there s another kid whose parent's let him live life proving how great life really can be!
Paul
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Children who will not break today,
may very well be the heors of tomorrow.
Imagine if Einstein was sent to such a program.
What a loss we would all be at, that all his contributios were never given to the world, but rather Eintein grew up to be a man talking about bullshit terms, and rationalising, and life skills, and how some program saved his life, or how he handed himself over to some higher power.
I say " what a loss we would all be out", but if I may be so bold..
More importantly, is what a loss for him!
It's the people who have handed themselves over to higher pwers who make the most difference in the world.
In this society, there is a lot of pressure, on parents to make sure that there kids " fit in", or else the parent is said to be a bad parent or perhaps, they will reflect negatively upon the parent in some other way.
The real question is when narrowed down to essence...
Is can we be enough of heros for our kids..
Can we brave enough for them..
To let them find that in themselves?
My kid came up with the equation: E=MC2
My kid recites: " what goes around comes around"
What a fucking difference.
Yeah.. there s definatly a lot of pressure to make our kids fit in or appear normal.
When you allow yourself to know of, and accept that that pressure is there, but not give into it, and continue to maintain course, driven by your own convictions, desires, inner musci, etc.
You shine like the proverbial pot of gold.
Your children will learn to do the same.
What better can you give them?
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It's the people who have *NOT* handed themselves over to higher pwers who make the most difference in the world.
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On 2003-10-16 23:03:00, Paul St. John wrote:
"For every adult who attributes in a touching story how some program made him/her so much better off today, there s another kid whose parent's let him live life proving how great life really can be!"
Yeah. They just tend not to be the type to complain and panic so much. I've talked to some of those who got reeled in just as far as their first WWASP interview, followed a gut feeling and checked the crentials of the "eductaion consultant", found they had a bachelors in sales and said "Fuck this!"
It's refreshing and reasuring. So, if anyone who stumbles accross this forum feels the need to jump in and tell us that we're all idiots and psychopaths right about now, I won't take it the wrong way. :em: The fatal pedagogical error is to throw answers, like stones, at the heads of those who have not yet asked the questions.
Paul Tillich
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On 2003-10-16 23:18:00, Paul St. John wrote:
Yeah.. there s definatly a lot of pressure to make our kids fit in or appear normal.
Yeah, but it's not all, probably not even so much, about making the parents look good. It's about fear. And it's about that dear old friend, our high tolerance for congnative dissonance.
A lot of parents ride herd on their kids more than their heart and gut tell them to because they're afraid of what we'll do to them if they let them just be natural kids. But, in order to groom the kids to not be that nail that sticks out and gets the hammer, they have to teach them to conform to unnatural limits. In the course of doing so, they can't disrespect those limits. They're trying to teach the kids to honor and never question those limits, after all, so they don't get nailed for colouring out of the lines. They can't divulge the simple rule, because it's not an honorable rule.
It's a real catch 22. And if you get into fractals, take a close look at PURE and how they evolved. These seem to be the parents of those kids who spotted and could not unsee that spark of individuality in their parents and would not conform to the cover story. But they don't want the kids to suffer the consequences for it. But they have to become the draggon. But they're not. But they are...
Totalism is madening! Crazymaking! The high irony seems to be that people who most crave spiritualism and are least able to find it are the ones most likely to fall into the trap.
What experiences and history teach is this-that people and government never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.
--G.W.F Hegel (1770-1831)
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Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
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Ginger, your orignal post on this thread is a letter from PURE. Did you go on line on the PURE website and fill in the survey and submit it. Then the remainder is a letter from PURE in which they responded to your post? Did they ever give you any names of any of the programs that they "recommend?"
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That's right, Carey. I filled in the form labeled "Request more info" and what I got back the next day was a stroke (Such a good mother! You're doing the right thing contacting us!) along with instruction to call Sue at the same number that's all over the website. No new info at all.
And no, I've repeatedly asked for a list of schools and programs to which PURE refers kids and repeatedly been ignored.
Do you have any idea? Are they, for example, on board with Bridge to Understanding? Cause I know to a dead certainty that some of the programs they list in their website have a horrible reputation for overt abuse and emotional harm.
He that lives upon hope will die fasting
--Benjamin Franklin 1758
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I wonder why she does not post the list of schools on her website that she refers parents to? Do you think the schools she refers to do not want the public to know that she is refering parents to their programs?
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I think it's very likely that the schools PURE refers to wouldn't stand scrutiny any better than the ones WWASP refers to.
But of course, that's just speculation, as I don't know which schools PURE refers to. They won't say.
It will be generally found that those who sneer habitually at human nature and affect to despise it, are among its worst and least pleasant examples
--Charles Dickens
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Maybe PURE should get their own POWER BOARD going?
:rofl:
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I wonder why she does not post the list of schools on her website that she refers parents to?
***************
Uh, my guess is that she doesn't want to provide free advertising for the programs. A parent could assume the programs posted on her site had been carefully scrutinized and call the facility directly- therefore cutting her out.
Not posting them adds to the mystery, illusion, that the Ed Con "profession" is a valuable and necessary service. And that there's some "science" to selecting a program. In a nutshell, she refers to programs she "thinks" are less abusive than WWASP.
Not sure how the programs she refers to work, but the one I'm familiar with required a referal. My son never saw the Con, made a referal on Friday, he was enrolled on Monday. A quick telephone call netted her thousands. The headmaster told parents they'd receive a $250 kickback if they proved they used an EC. While they "couldn't give the money to the EC, the parent was free to do with it as they wished". His tone certainly implied it was the right thing to do. My question? Why? She didn't EARN the thousands my ex paid her to begin with.
What did she actually do to earn that money? Took a phone call and refered to an unlicensed program, "based on the owner's reputation".
BTW, anyone seen the list of programs at Bozak's site? Not all "recommended", but I guess that's a different strategy... overwhelm the parent with options (opportunities, as they like to call them) so they feel they need "professional" help choosing.
List of Therapeutic/RTC/Emotional Growth Schools
http://www.school-placement.com/therapeuticlist.html (http://www.school-placement.com/therapeuticlist.html)
Link to Other lists:
http://www.school-placement.com/ (http://www.school-placement.com/)
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BINGO! Good work Deborah -- Thank God somebody gets it. Please keep up the good work raising public awareness because these poor parents who get taken in by ed cons don't have a clue.
:nworthy:
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I'd still like to know. She was posting to Bridges about which schools she endorsed. Then, aparently, she stopped doing that. I wonder if it had something to do w/ Ian?
Regardless, I'm certainly not about to skip Sue and send my kid straight to the wholesaler. And I'm damned sure not about to go into competition. So why would PURE ignore my repeated requests for their referal list?
The law in its majestic equality, forbids all men to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread - the rich as well as the poor
--Anatole France
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous