Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 11, 2003, 02:02:00 PM

Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2003, 02:02:00 PM
IMHO - If a parent attended a seminar or not, they were lead to believe a very different program that what many bought into.  For Example, so what if Karen or any parent didnt attend a seminar, the sales reps (unqualified most likely to diagnosis or even credentialed to treat) will tell the parents exactly what they want to hear. I understandt they -sales reps- are trained to do this. If your kid is ADD/ADHD, then it is for them, if the kid is Bipolar, again, they will match you up, if defiant, agian a match, you see whatever the problem the sales reps are trained to lead you to beleive they can help. Even the most educated people, like lawyers, doctors, accountants fall for this crap since they are DESPERATE. Desperation leads you to beleive the good words at the other end of the phone. Maybe a answer to your prayers or whatever. Blind trust, you betcha.  The best line for the abroad programs is  - your child will have a cultural experience - How about the promises of great academics.  Give us all a break.  You need to live to know what I am talking about.  And I bet many of you do. Not the WWASPie's they need to keep the sales pitchs alive.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Carey on October 11, 2003, 02:21:00 PM
Quote
Even the most educated people, like lawyers, doctors, accountants fall for this crap since they are DESPERATE. Desperation leads you to beleive the good words at the other end of the phone. Maybe a answer to your prayers or whatever. Blind trust, you betcha.


This is B___S____.  It does not matter what kind of degree someone has.  It has to do with common sense.  

Yeah, desperation can make educated people loose sense of reality...but for how long?  Are they still desperate after the child is placed in a program?  Are they not able at that time to sit back and reevalute the situation based on the experience that has begun after placement?

Ok, three weeks is up and they are not allowed to speak with their child as they had been told they would be able to.  How many left their child in the program anyway?  How long did they wait before communication was granted?  How long before they pulled their child?  

Any parent that left their child in the program without open communication between parent and child is without common sense!  Any parent that was fed by the seminars is without common sense.  Any parent that left their child with untrained staff in an unliscensed faciltiy is without common sense.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2003, 02:26:00 PM
Sorry, but I need to say this:

CAREY YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE.   O-kay, I feel better now.

Too bad we all are not as perfect are Scary Carey. Stupid me, I know this will start a bunch of Bull, but like others have said, sometimes she just pushes you there.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2003, 02:47:00 PM
ditto ANON.  The b-tch thinks she is so holier then thou since she believes she would have never fallen for the scam.  B____ S____ to you Scary! :grin:  Any your ugly ID.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Antigen on October 11, 2003, 03:11:00 PM
You want to know how powerful and effective this kind of brainwashing can be? Just check out this site: http://elanalum.com/ (http://elanalum.com/) This is a site run by a former Elan staffer who, 20 or 30 years hence, is still 'in the program'. As one might expect, the whole site is locked, controled and restricted just like a WWASP site. So I can't give you a direct link to their forums, because copying urls or viewing page source code is a no-no (not impossible, just really inconvenient)

To get to their discussion forums, to through the Communications door, then to the relating table.

Have fun! Gain insight. But don't piss Ken off or he'll ban you and then trash you like he's having his very own fantasy GM and you're the newcomer.

The most fundamental fact about the ideas of the political left is that they do not work. Therefore we should not be surprised to find the left concentrated in institutions where ideas do not have to work in order to survive.


--Thomas Sowell

Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2003, 03:20:00 PM
That is very interesting Ginger. I dont know the Elan school. Is it as bad as WWASPS? It seems to use that mind control element.  I want to express my feelings abuot this thread.  The first anon poster is absolutely correct, I didnt attend the seminars but I did get sucked in. I am ashamed to say yes, I did screw up, BUT I also am big enough to say it. It does seems many too many of us did the same thing. We are not perfect and they had preyed on us at our weak times, and then kept stroking us so we wouldnt wake up. This is sad. Our saving factor is finally a law firm will put an end to it.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2003, 08:53:00 PM
Quote
and then kept stroking us so we wouldnt wake up.


So, while you, you poor thing, were being stroked, what was happening to your child?  How sad, how selfish...but beleivable.

Sorry Ginger, but I don't beleive the parents were or are brainwashed.  They have not been isolated from society, deprived of their normal defenses, given little or no food, etc., etc.  I do beleive that the kids who have been in the program may have been and maybe still are brainwashed, but the parents, NO WAY.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Carey on October 11, 2003, 08:54:00 PM
Sorry, that was me.

Quote
I did get sucked in. I am ashamed to say yes, I did screw up,

How in the hell did you get sucked in?  What a crock of shit.  What, did you get sucked in because it was so much more peaceful for you at home with your son/daughter in a program.  What, were your ears being tickled and that is all that you needed.  Let me say it again, what a crock of shit!

Quote
. The b-tch thinks she is so holier then thou since she believes she would have never fallen for the scam


Nope, not holier then thou...just think neglegent parents should be held accountable too.  

[ This Message was edited by:  on 2003-10-11 18:06 ]
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2003, 09:12:00 PM
:eek:  :eek:  :eek:
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2003, 09:40:00 PM
Judging by how many of these parents are "potential plaintiffs" in the HURON lawsuit, I'd say these parents are sorry, allright.  Plaintiff-ly Sorry ...

 :roll:
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2003, 10:32:00 PM
Quote
Judging by how many of these parents are "potential plaintiffs" in the HURON lawsuit, I'd say these parents are sorry, allright. Plaintiff-ly Sorry [/QUTOE]

Really, well maybe if that is all it takes is being sorry, then maybe WWASP can just be sorry too?  

I don't think these parents are sorry.  I think these parents are mad because they spent sooooo much money and got very little in return.  I would love to know for each plantiff in this case, how many months total their child was left in the program.  I would love to know how many months it took before they had any REAL communication with their child.  I would love to hear how the program brainwashed them (the parent).  What was the method used on the parent, isolation, deprivation, WHAT?
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Carey on October 11, 2003, 10:33:00 PM
That was me.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Antigen on October 11, 2003, 10:56:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-10-11 17:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote
and then kept stroking us so we wouldnt wake up.



So, while you, you poor thing, were being stroked, what was happening to your child?  How sad, how selfish...but beleivable.



Sorry Ginger, but I don't beleive the parents were or are brainwashed.  They have not been isolated from society, deprived of their normal defenses, given little or no food, etc., etc.  I do beleive that the kids who have been in the program may have been and maybe still are brainwashed, but the parents, NO WAY.



  "


No, they really are. Carey, I have known a LOT of program parents in my lifetime. Remember that, from the time I was around 6 until I was 15 and placed in Straight, program families were the only people I was really allowed to hang out with. Open meetings every Friday, "volunteer" work making up lunches for group on Sundays. We're talking about the culture of my childhood here; my kin, my tribe, the folks I knew better than I knew myself in my formative years.

They do become isolated from the rest of society. Not by brute force, they volunteerily impose the isolation on themselves. Have you noticed how insular the TeenHelp forums are? These folks only talk to eachother and, in order to keep group approval, are not allowed to be friends with anyone 'not in good standing'. How the parents are discouraged from having much meaningful contact with their own extended family members if they're not 'supportive of the program'?

No, there's no one standing over them every minute of every day keeping them from using a telephone. But they become convinced that if they buck the program, their children will die!

Carey, I've had people my age call me and tell me they'd wanted to speak to me for awhile, but were afraid one of the other program parents would find out and turn them in to staff. I know and you know they have every freedom to just pull their kids. They don't know that anymore. They're well trained to equate quitting the program with murdering their own child.

Our Constitution is in actual operation; everything appears to promise that it will last; but in this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.
Ben Franklin Letter to M. Leroy, 1789.

Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Carey on October 11, 2003, 11:49:00 PM
Ginger, I respect you and your insight on this topic, but I do not agree with you that the parents are "brainwashed."  Maybe they are easily influenced by others, but they are not brainwashed.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2003, 05:21:00 AM
Quote
On 2003-10-11 19:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote
Judging by how many of these parents are "potential plaintiffs" in the HURON lawsuit, I'd say these parents are sorry, allright. Plaintiff-ly Sorry



Really, well maybe if that is all it takes is being sorry, then maybe WWASP can just be sorry too?  



I don't think these parents are sorry.  I think these parents are mad because they spent sooooo much money and got very little in return.  I would love to know for each plantiff in this case, how many months total their child was left in the program.  I would love to know how many months it took before they had any REAL communication with their child.  I would love to hear how the program brainwashed them (the parent).  What was the method used on the parent, isolation, deprivation, WHAT?

"


Seems to me these parents really have nobody to blame but themselves and that the only people who should benefit from a lawsuit are the children who were made to suffer the consequences of their parents actions.  Second, if these parents are so outraged, why didn't they bring their own civil lawsuits against the people alleged to have abused their children?  Doesn't make sense at all but then again, most of these parents are claiming they JUST RECENTLY WOKE UP which seems to suggest they were comatose the rest of the time and unable to take any DIRECT ACTION themselves. Wonder how that explanation will hold up in the court of public opinion, not to mention a court of law?  I mean, where is the documentation to prove these parents were suffering from anything but indifference to the
quality of their child's care and treatment?  If it's there, I honestly don't see it except in a few publicized cases involving children whose parents pulled them shortly after placement.

 :???:
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2003, 09:54:00 AM
the thing for parents it seems is that you really don't expect an organization to lie to you, over and over again. Our nature is to believe that most tell the truth most of the time and they do use documented thought reform methods. Perhaps Carey would not have been taken in, by many have been.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Carey on October 12, 2003, 10:12:00 AM
I agree totally anon.  Some how, some where along the lines these parents started feeling guilty about what they had done.  I think they knew what they were signing when they signed away thier childs rights.   I think they knew that their child was going to receive less than quality care.  I think they knew their child was going to be deprived of the essential love and support that ALL people, big and small, need to develope both emotionally and physically.  They knew all of this, but...I beleive they felt that this would be a good way to "teach their child a lesson," almost a "last choice" decision.  Now, maybe the lesson did not work for them (which should not surprise anyone given the methods that I am aware of...methods like that used at Dundee), maybe it made things worse for them and so now they need to blame someone for the bad decision they made and who else is there to blame other than themselves...only WWASP!

If people want to stop this type of thing from happening to other children, then hold the parents accountable.  Let them know that their kids are their responsibility and they will be held accountable if they irresponsibly or neglectfully leave their children in the care of a program that admittingly spells out and puts in writing they are not a liscensed to care for children.  This is not about WWASP, this is about children being abused and/or neglected by a bad program and parents who have dropped them off on the front porch of strangers or parents who have hired escorts to kidknapp their child and deliver them into the hands of strangers.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2003, 11:33:00 AM
Carey,  

You should really make a quick trip to HELL.

How dare you judge us parents as if you know what you are talking about.You dont care about the kids.Your claim to fame is harrassing and blaming. Drop dead.

You are a dull bitch who thinks she has insight into the truth. You dont.

What I read from you is a bunch of crap.. Know it all know nothing crap. Go get laid or something.

  Just go away! You are useless to the overall endeavor.

Better yet join up with Teen help.They too have all of the correct answers.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2003, 01:42:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-10-12 08:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Carey,  



You should really make a quick trip to HELL.



How dare you judge us parents as if you know what you are talking about.You dont care about the kids.Your claim to fame is harrassing and blaming. Drop dead.



You are a dull bitch who thinks she has insight into the truth. You dont.



What I read from you is a bunch of crap.. Know it all know nothing crap. Go get laid or something.



  Just go away! You are useless to the overall endeavor.



Better yet join up with Teen help.They too have all of the correct answers."


Man, you whiny, wacked anti-carey fanatics need to get a grip before your "cause" goes down the toilet along with your disgusting crap-attacks.

 ::bigmouth::
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Antigen on October 12, 2003, 02:02:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-10-11 20:49:00, Carey wrote:

"Ginger, I respect you and your insight on this topic, but I do not agree with you that the parents are "brainwashed."  Maybe they are easily influenced by others, but they are not brainwashed.  "


Ok, let me give you a little more info. As you may have gathered from some of my prior writing, I'm one of those old fashioned daughters who held my father in the highest regard and have been happily married to a guy who has a lot of the same good qualities for pretty close to 20 years. I don't like to trash my dad, especially now that he's gone. But I'll tell you this story so that maybe you can understand a little bit.

My dad and I always got along, which drove my mother absolutely NUTS. She had been a devoute follower of AA since her father had become, as my dad described him and others like him, a "professional alcoholic". When my mom kicked my dad out of the house, he moved into a little shack on a farm owned by a friend of his in exchange for keeping up the property. This is not a hard luck story here, this is how my dad prefered to live. He loved it! He could have as many cars and air conditioners and other toys as he wanted in various stages of repair. And he had two refigerators in that little place; one stocked with Busch and the other with PBR to accomodate his friends who took to seeking refuge there at Crazy Mac's little shack.

Coincidentally or not, this was around the same time my older brothers went into The Seed.

Since she couldn't influence me to lose affection or respect for my dad, she started working on his confidence in me. It took awhile, but eventually she got him convinced that, just like all 5 of my older brothers and sisters, I was, indeed, a druggie in need of treatment. It was really insideous as hell. I think she knew, on some level, just what she was doing.

She would do bizarre things. One time I had a crush on one of my older cousin's friends. We were all going out to dinner together and, on the way from the car to the restaurant, she calls out LOUDly from like 20 feet away "Ging, did you remember to change your tampon?". And she wouldn't let it go, she went on to note that I was wearing white pants and how unfortunate it would be to have an accident.

She tortured me emotionally and then blamed the effects on all these wild parties and drugs that I'd never even seen or dared to try for fear of getting put in the Program.

I could go into a lot of detail here about how my dad changed ever so slightly over the years from being completely hostile to Art Barker, another "professional alcoholic". But I doubt anyone really wants to read all that. So I'll cut to the chase.

When I split the program for the final time, I didn't know it, but my dad was making headlines. He had been wrongfully fired from the Postal Service and, after about 5 years of not making any progress through the normal channels of grievance and civil court, he staged a PR stunt to bring attention to his case. The PS folks had claimed that he was physically disabled and refused disability retirement and so that's why they had to fire him. So he walked right up US1 from the Pompano Beach, Florida post office all the way to the Postmaster General's office on US1 in Washington, D.C. with a hand made sign on his back pack that read "DISABLED HELL!"

I found out about this when I got to my brother's house in Stone Mountain, Georgia. Dad was passing through S.C. about that time and my brother drove over and picked him up so he could come visit and rest for awhile before continuing his treck.

I didn't know it at the time, but Dad was absolutely furious with the damned program once again. All those years he'd emptied his pockets, solicited donations of cash and food for them. Now that all he needed was a thousand bucks or so so that he could spend more than on in 7 nights in a hotel and a little publicity, instead he got condemned by the parents group for endangering the lives of all of their children by trying to selfishly divert money and resources from the Program to his stupid, quixotic grudge trip.

Never the less, more than he hated those people and their ways at that time, he sincerely believed that I was going to die if I didn't go back and sit in that warehouse till Staff deemed me done to a turn, even if it took another two years. Mind you, I was not out selling my ass or binging or anything like that. Never have. I had just tried to enroll in high school, but couldn't because my mom refused to release my school transcript from Florida. So I got a job at Arby's instead.

The day before I was to start work, I decided to go clock my walk to the nearest bus stop to make sure I'd be on time. Just about the time I got there, a cop pulls up and asks me my name, where I'm going, what I'm doing, etc. I didn't know exactly what, but I knew something was up. So I was very polite, not to mention very frightened!

It turns out, my dear old dad, who normally never told a lie (unless it was a funny story) had called the police and told them that he'd seen me, a known addict, in a store. He knew I didn't have any money (which, thankfully, was an error on his part) and so he was sure I was there to shoplift. He thought that if he could get me arrested, the Program supporters in the Cobb County force (where the newest Straight facility had just opened) would make sure I got put back in Group.

Carey, my dad was a brilliant man just on raw intillect. He was one of those hard assed WWII Navy vets who had become a man under fire. He held himself to the highest standards of responsibility and ethics straight out of the Bluejacket Manual, which he kept on his book shelf instead of a Bible. And he had an extremely low threshhold for bullshit from people who habitually failed to meet his standards.

And Carey, the man was brainwashed. A year or so later, he was, indeed, very sorry for his part in putting 5 out of 6 of us kids through the wash. He told me in words one day that it had been a mistake, he'd been taken in and how he should have seen it coming and we never spoke of it ever again. We didn't need to. He showed me by his actions that he was sorry. For the rest of his days, regardless of what the rest of the family thought, he treated me with respect and affection and I remain so very grateful to him for snapping out of it and, finally, choosing me over those brainwashed zombies.

Differnt folks have different ways. Some want to fight through the legal system. Some let sleeping dogs lie. I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of the parents who are now suing WWASP on behalf of their children. You should understand that it's not like ordering a pizza. It's an excruciating proccess, very expensive and very risky. I hope they win and I hope a little more of the truth trickles or floods out as a result.

Power concedes nothing without a demand. The limit of oppression is determined by the extent of the endurance of the oppressed.
--Frederick Douglas



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
   10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Antigen on October 12, 2003, 02:23:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-10-12 10:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2003-10-12 08:33:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Carey,  





You should really make a quick trip to HELL.
...




Man, you whiny, wacked anti-carey fanatics need to get a grip before your "cause" goes down the toilet along with your disgusting crap-attacks.



 ::bigmouth:: "


I agree with both sentiments. I think Carey doesn't 'get it' entirely. But she's not insincere and I have to admire a gal who did what she did to rescue her own kids from this cult AND continues to harry the enemy like a pissed off and psychotic mother rottweiler. I can easily forgive a little excess in this.

Now, can we all just smoke um peace pipe and give a little more care and attention to our common ground and a little less to our differences?  :smokin:

India Indicas, Mr. Peabody?
-- Sherman

Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: anon on October 12, 2003, 05:56:00 PM
[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-18 18:08 ]
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2003, 06:21:00 PM
Quote
On 2003-10-12 14:56:00, KarenZ wrote:

"Ginger, Define Enemy Please.

Its been a long time sence Carey has done anything other than smear with innuendo, those who are striving to help stop the abuse in what ever way they can.

Her list of the stupid and/or greedy, or those with secret, sinister, hidden motive, grows longer day by day; and it hasn't been about anyone on the other side of the fence, for a long, long while.

Do you really want a psycotic Rottweiler for a watch dog? "


Oh brother, give me a dime for every bible-thumping, anti-carey, pro-pure, pity-the-parents, posts Karen Z. has written, and I'd have enough money to buy myself a case of jack daniels to help me swallow all this regurgatated b.s.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Antigen on October 12, 2003, 06:51:00 PM
Karen, I can't define the term enemy for you or for Carey. But maybe if all of ya'll would just respond civilly or pass, maybe you'd find that you're not really eachother's enemy. Maybe not, there's only one way to find out.

And yes. I think having a psychotic rottweiler for a watch dog is a wonderful idea, provided they view you as a friend.

May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-- George Carlin

Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Carey on October 12, 2003, 07:58:00 PM
Ginger, I want to say I am sorry if I offended you with some of my remarks.  You truely are a victim of program abuse.  It hurts me to think that people such as yourself and my boys have had to endure isolation and feeling not worthy of love. I am also sorry that you had to live so much of your life in pain because of a mother who was controlling and a father who bought into what he was being sold.  

I think the only way to stop the abuse is to make parents accountable.  Parents have to be the NUMBER ONE, FIRST line of defense.  They have to know that it is their responsibility to protect their child from predators.  They have to know that if they don't they will be held accountable.  They have to know that if they put their child in a program that does not allow for them to be heard by the outside world then they are putting their child at risk and should something happen to the child, they will be held accountable.  (Remember, we are talking about lock down facilities.)  

If WWASP is shut down today, then another program will open tomorrow. We see it happening over and over again.  As long as the demand is there, then the supply will be there too.
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: anon on October 12, 2003, 08:20:00 PM
[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-18 18:10 ]
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Antigen on October 13, 2003, 12:20:00 AM
Quote
On 2003-10-12 16:58:00, Carey wrote:

"Ginger, I want to say I am sorry if I offended you with some of my remarks.

You didn't offend me. I've just seen this argument from a lot of different perspectives over the last 33 or so years since my parents were the parents in question. You know that old saw about how dumb your dad was when you were 17 and how much he'd improved himself by the time you were 25? Well that's a lie. They don't really smarten up till you bring them grandchildren. Then they learn the difference between petty power struggle and high stakes issue.


Quote
I think the only way to stop the abuse is to make parents accountable.  Parents have to be the NUMBER ONE, FIRST line of defense.  

Yeah, like I said. Start bringing them grandchildren, and they smarten up real quick sometimes. Sometimes not. But the parents are accountable already, no matter what. Trust me on this one, they suffer in their lonely old age, just like anyone.


Quote
They have to know that it is their responsibility to protect their child from predators.  

It's born in us. They already know it and can only put it out of mind to a certain degree.

Underneath it all, we all know the same truths. And we all have to live with them. These people got swindled out of their very progeney! I wouldn't wish that on anyone.  

Quote

If WWASP is shut down today, then another program will open tomorrow. We see it happening over and over again.  As long as the demand is there, then the supply will be there too."


That's why I care so much less about punishing anyone for anything than for getting testimony, depositions and other discovery material onto the public record. Do you want to know the amount of my bandwidth bill one month from people pulling that material from Mitchell vs. Mitchell transcripts? It was shocking!

It's not really so much about punishing the bad guys for me. It's all about getting the story out. I have a stayed belief in basic human decency and prescience and I do not believe the public would support these cruel scams if they really understood what they were looking at. This includes the people currently getting reamed out for some imagined transgression in a RR seminar right now and those doing all the shouting.



It's obnoxious to ask law enforcement to follow the law. That's insulting to every cop.

--John Lovell, lobbyist for the California police chief's association

Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Antigen on October 13, 2003, 12:34:00 AM
Keren, your patient sounds a whole lot like my brother on a bender. So should we cast disparagements upon all Irishmen?

Define psychotic. Ok. Not like that at all, and you're quite correct that that was not the best choice of words.

I'm talking about the purely natural response to threat sometimes called the battle warp. Other times called the three F's. So mother rottweiler in a battle warp is a better and more artful turn. Thanks! Sorry Carey.  :wave:

When I started as a federal narcotics agent, the budget that we were working with, it was less than $5 million a year, and there was only 125 agents for the entire world to work the narcotic trade that we were fighting in those days.  Times have changed.  The gluttony has grown.
--Nick Navarro, former Broward, FL Sherrif

Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: anon on October 13, 2003, 12:48:00 AM
[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-18 18:12 ]
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Antigen on October 13, 2003, 01:01:00 AM
A judge I admire once (or twice) said that we should reserve our prisons for people we're scared of, not people we're just mad at. I have no doubt there are players within WWASP ought to wind up either put away or divested of their wealth and publicly humiliated and shamed.

Like I said, the parents are responsible. We know that because we're moms. They know it too when you really get down to it. You can't get any more accountable than that. What we have to make them is able to see these scammers coming a mile away. The rest comes naturally.

Q. I simply ask, why is PUNISHMENT the solution with regards to the narrow group of behaviors which encompass illegal drug use....?

A.Pharmaceutical Business, both legal and illegal, run by the same people either way, money coming to the middle from both ends.  Bush.
Bill Gallagher

Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 13, 2003, 04:22:00 PM
Change yourself before you attempt to change others.

If it's not a cause against "programs", it's a cause against Carey, Religion, medication, etc.,

From irrational minds, comes irrational bashing.

Have a nice day :smile:
Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Antigen on October 13, 2003, 06:04:00 PM
Change yourself before you try to change others? Is that another gem of wisdom from the Kay/Lichfile book of "Do as I say, not as I do?"

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base.
-- Dave Barry

Title: Brainwash, Mind Control, Blind Trust
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2003, 02:09:00 AM
Is that Kay/Lichfile?  I heard that same thing from a little old lady in my neighborhood as a kid - It was her favorite thing to say it seemed - and I've heard it other times too...it's really nothing new.