Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Botched Programming on September 22, 2010, 08:27:11 AM
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Now let's get back to the question I posed as we really need to make a list
Hey guys we keep running round and round and getting nowhere with the battle of programs are bad, let's give Who, Max, and Danny the opportunity to tell us which programs are good since they are stuck on the one track.
I think this is a reasonable request from Botched. I would like to see the list of specific programs which come so highly reccomended here. Names, address and phone # would be helpful. We can start with the program which maximillian/suck it attended. thanks. :rocker:
I agree with what Shaggy's said.. I made a reasonable request and "Who" you danced around the question... Name the good programs...
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I agree with what Shaggy's said.. I made a reasonable request and "Who" you danced around the question... Name the good programs...
We have tried this in the past with mixed results. I think for starters "Academy at Swift River" would be considered a good program.
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I once met a young man who introduced himself as Swift River Dan. He wanted to talk to me about my perspective as a program parent. I don't like speaking for others for risk of putting words in their mouth they may not have intended; but I will say I got the strong impression he was very angry with his parents for the experience. He did not consider it "good". In his clearly stated opinion, based on his experience, It was abusive and traumatizing. In other words, depressingly typical.
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There are at least hundreds of various types of treatment programs out there, fornits tends to focus on about a dozen or so. Fornits seems to ignores the rest of them, and tries to generalize an entire industry based on the worst case examples. So coming up with a list of good programs would be a very long list, indeed. I've been to good treatment programs, I was not abused or mistreated. But the real question is how the posters here can prove that all programs are abusive, just because an individual person had a negative experience doesn't mean everybody else did. Fornits only has a relatively small amount of posters compared to the number who attended programs. Most kids go through it and do fine, the one's who don't end up here complaining about it, which isn't very many.
So the real question isn't about naming good programs, that is easy, because it's almost all of them. But I'll wait here for the people claiming all programs are abusive to come up with some kind of proof of that statement. There are a lot of programs open right now with kids in them and nobody here on fornits ever heard of, and I'm not going to start naming names of these programs so the extremists here can start stalking the staff at them, or hacking their websites and all the things fornits extremists like to do. Programs work and parents continue to use them, despite fornits posters complaining about them on this forum. Arguing with me or anyone else here isn't going to stop a parent from using a program. If you want to do something about it you probably should do something other than demanding proof that programs are good, and start coming up with your own proof why programs are bad. Otherwise you're just wasting your time, because a sob story about how you couldn't make it through a program isn't really that convincing to most parents.
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So Whooter highly recomends the Academy at Swift River huh? Well it took a 10 second google search to uncover the troubling history of this place. Allegations of abuse from students, parents and ex-employees are plentiful. State investigations of this place prompted by concerns of brainwashing and abuse. Yeah this is where you want to send your child. How disturbing that Whooter would choose this place to give his "thumbs up" to.
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I once met a young man who introduced himself as Swift River Dan. He wanted to talk to me about my perspective as a program parent. I don't like speaking for others for risk of putting words in their mouth they may not have intended; but I will say I got the strong impression he was very angry with his parents for the experience. He did not consider it "good". In his clearly stated opinion, based on his experience, It was abusive and traumatizing. In other words, depressingly typical.
I think you will see this in most schools of learning. There will always be kids who did well and liked it and those who dreaded their experience. Unfortunately sometimes kids get paired off with a counselor who they dont get along with or one who is on a power trip and this can negatively impact their experience.
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There are at least hundreds of various types of treatment programs out there, fornits tends to focus on about a dozen or so. Fornits seems to ignores the rest of them, and tries to generalize an entire industry based on the worst case examples. So coming up with a list of good programs would be a very long list, indeed. I've been to good treatment programs, I was not abused or mistreated. But the real question is how the posters here can prove that all programs are abusive, just because an individual person had a negative experience doesn't mean everybody else did. Fornits only has a relatively small amount of posters compared to the number who attended programs. Most kids go through it and do fine, the one's who don't end up here complaining about it, which isn't very many.
"I didn't find fornits until 25 years after I got out of the program. It sometimes takes years, or even decades, to get on your feet after going through that. There might be a WHOLE LOT more of us soon."
So the real question isn't about naming good programs, that is easy, because it's almost all of them. But I'll wait here for the people claiming all programs are abusive to come up with some kind of proof of that statement. There are a lot of programs open right now with kids in them and nobody here on fornits ever heard of, and I'm not going to start naming names of these programs so the extremists here can start stalking the staff at them, or hacking their websites and all the things fornits extremists like to do. Programs work and parents continue to use them, despite fornits posters complaining about them on this forum. Arguing with me or anyone else here isn't going to stop a parent from using a program. If you want to do something about it you probably should do something other than demanding proof that programs are good, and start coming up with your own proof why programs are bad. Otherwise you're just wasting your time, because a sob story about how you couldn't make it through a program isn't really that convincing to most parents.
Saying that we couldn't make it through a program implies that we WANTED to make it through a program. I never did. Not once in the whole five months I was there. I did not want or need what they were selling. Them forcing it on me anyway caused me profound emotional trauma at a very sensitive age and almost certainly hindered my ability to develop into a healthy adult.
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I agree with what Shaggy's said.. I made a reasonable request and "Who" you danced around the question... Name the good programs...
We have tried this in the past with mixed results. I think for starters "Academy at Swift River" would be considered a good program.
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OK... We have one program... Come on people let's make the list of good programs. Can you think if any others ???
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So the real question isn't about naming good programs, that is easy, because it's almost all of them.
No...that was my question, to name the good ones
There are a lot of programs open right now with kids in them and nobody here on fornits ever heard of, and I'm not going to start naming names of these programs so the extremists here can start stalking the staff at them, or hacking their websites and all the things fornits extremists like to do.
And here we have a conspiracy theory..... LOL
If you want to do something about it you probably should do something other than demanding proof that programs are good, and start coming up with your own proof why programs are bad.
We have proven there are bad prgrams, now the burdon of proof is on you to show us the good ones.
Otherwise you're just wasting your time, because a sob story about how you couldn't make it through a program isn't really that convincing to most parents.
Here is a personal attack on me not even on the topic of discussion...
P.S. I am sorry if it makes you uncomfortable to name the good programs, maybe because you can't, there's not any !!!
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We have shown that there are good and bad programs.
The key is to match a childs needs to a program in which he or she will be successful. Even in the best program if the child digs in his/her heels and doesnt apply themselves then they will be unsuccessful and end up here on forints blaming the program and his/her parents for their lifes outcome and lost opportunities.
There are occasions where the child is mismatched and the program is not effective but this is typically noticed early on and the program recommends that the child leave the program and try a new approach. The last thing a program wants is to have an unsuccessful child pass through their system. Public school systems dont mind but programs depend on word of mouth to keep them growing.
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We have shown that there are good and bad programs.
The key is to match a childs needs to a program in which he or she will be successful. Even in the best program if the child digs in his/her heels and doesnt apply themselves then they will be unsuccessful and end up here on forints blaming the program and his/her parents for their lifes outcome and lost opportunities.
There are occasions where the child is mismatched and the program is not effective but this is typically noticed early on and the program recommends that the child leave the program and try a new approach. The last thing a program wants is to have an unsuccessful child pass through their system. Public school systems dont mind but programs depend on word of mouth to keep them growing.
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This is still dodging the questions... Names of good programs is what we want !!!
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I must request that the topic of this thread be honored. Who/Max?Suckit need to name the excellent programs which they endorse. The first one named has already had numerous abuse problems so please name another. This time try to pick one that hasn't already chalked up an abuse record. We are waiting.
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We have shown that there are good and bad programs.
The key is to match a childs needs to a program in which he or she will be successful. Even in the best program if the child digs in his/her heels and doesnt apply themselves then they will be unsuccessful and end up here on forints blaming the program and his/her parents for their lifes outcome and lost opportunities.
There are occasions where the child is mismatched and the program is not effective but this is typically noticed early on and the program recommends that the child leave the program and try a new approach. The last thing a program wants is to have an unsuccessful child pass through their system. Public school systems dont mind but programs depend on word of mouth to keep them growing.
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This is still dodging the questions... Names of good programs is what we want !!!
I dont think you will get much of a response here on fornits, Botched, and I dont think anyone wants to take the time to type out the 500 to 700 programs you are looking for. An easier way is to name the handful that are mentioned here on fornits that have been shown to be ineffective.
Its like saying name all the high schools which did not experience mass murder (or multiple) killings. Its easier to list Columbine high school and the few others then type out the thousands of schools which did not have a problem. Do you see what I mean?
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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We have shown that there are good and bad programs.
The key is to match a childs needs to a program in which he or she will be successful. Even in the best program if the child digs in his/her heels and doesnt apply themselves then they will be unsuccessful and end up here on forints blaming the program and his/her parents for their lifes outcome and lost opportunities.
There are occasions where the child is mismatched and the program is not effective but this is typically noticed early on and the program recommends that the child leave the program and try a new approach. The last thing a program wants is to have an unsuccessful child pass through their system. Public school systems dont mind but programs depend on word of mouth to keep them growing.
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This is still dodging the questions... Names of good programs is what we want !!!
I dont think you will get much of a response here on fornits, Botched, and I dont think anyone wants to take the time to type out the 500 to 700 programs you are looking for. An easier way is to name the handful that are mentioned here on fornits that have been shown to be ineffective.
Its like saying name all the high schools which did not experience mass murder (or multiple) killings. Its easier to list Columbine high school and the few others then type out the thousands of schools which did not have a problem. Do you see what I mean?
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Just admit you cant list any good ones and be done !!!
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We have shown that there are good and bad programs.
The key is to match a childs needs to a program in which he or she will be successful. Even in the best program if the child digs in his/her heels and doesnt apply themselves then they will be unsuccessful and end up here on forints blaming the program and his/her parents for their lifes outcome and lost opportunities.
There are occasions where the child is mismatched and the program is not effective but this is typically noticed early on and the program recommends that the child leave the program and try a new approach. The last thing a program wants is to have an unsuccessful child pass through their system. Public school systems dont mind but programs depend on word of mouth to keep them growing.
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Just admit you cant list any good ones and be done !!!
This is still dodging the questions... Names of good programs is what we want !!!
I dont think you will get much of a response here on fornits, Botched, and I dont think anyone wants to take the time to type out the 500 to 700 programs you are looking for. An easier way is to name the handful that are mentioned here on fornits that have been shown to be ineffective.
Its like saying name all the high schools which did not experience mass murder (or multiple) killings. Its easier to list Columbine high school and the few others then type out the thousands of schools which did not have a problem. Do you see what I mean?
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Whooter this thread is a useless waste of cyberspace. I wouldn't participate in this thread if I were you. If you do decide to participate in this thread, Botch should specify the specific problem. Is Botch referring to eating disorders, addictions, etc?
Maybe my question is too simple for complicated minds.. Just name programs you youself approve or you think are good programs... Damn it is so simple
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Sports programs. > Highschool football, hockey, wrestling, soccer. :roflmao:
Please ignor this childish attempt to dreail the topic... Now let's get back to the creation of the list of programs they can say are good .... So far one and it had bad stuff happen at it... lets have some more names of good programs guys and stick to the topic
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Fulshear Ranch Academy
http://www.fulshearranchacademy.com (http://www.fulshearranchacademy.com)
I was curious, so I took a quick peek at the website - and I must admit - they definately
seem to have their shit together.
Assuming that everything posted there is true, here are a few things I saw on Fulshear's website that I like:
1.) They are staffed with qualified and licensed therapists/professionals. Big Plus that
the staff actually have real training & education!
2.) They have a written game plan (forgive me I don't know the techinical term)
with a plausible completion goal, including specific milestones towards acheiving
that final goal. I like the fact that the majority of the program focuses on helping
the client live on their own outside from the main facility, but still offers whatever
support they might need. Fulshear seems intent on keeping their clients part of
the outside world during their time there, rather than isolating them from it
(highly unlike most programs I know of).
3.) The clientel are between 18-24 years old, which suggests to me that participatation
in the program is strictly voluntary, and as such the participants can pull themselves out
and leave anytime they want to. I feel that personal choice is the single greatest factor
of determining whether therapy works or not. If you don't really want to get better, then
no amount of therapy can help you. Enrollment in any program should be strictly voluntary
for the participant.
4.) The program seems highly individualized, with each person progressing at their
own pace. Huge plus! Everyone is different. Therapy should be individualized to
meet each clients specific needs.
5.) I didn't see any red-flagg buzz-words like "emotional growth", "behavior modifiction", "Raps", "life springs","dianetics", "profeet", "dead/insane/in jail", or
any of the other cult-inspired, money-scamming, bullshit terms posted anywhere.
Again this is all based on my assumption that the website is being truthful; however,
based on what I've read: Fulshear definately seems to be the polar opposite of my own personal program hellhole - Cedu!
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Fulshear Academy
Age range is 18-24... lets work on teen programs
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Whooter this thread is a useless waste of cyberspace. I wouldn't participate in this thread if I were you. If you do decide to participate in this thread, Botch should specify the specific problem. Is Botch referring to eating disorders, addictions, etc?
Maybe my question is too simple for complicated minds.. Just name programs you youself approve or you think are good programs... Damn it is so simple
All the programs are good, Botched. I think this is the point you are missing. There may be people who work for various programs who are bad and there may be programs which went bad over time, but I think we can all agree that programs are essentially good and are designed to help people.
I think one of the issues people have is they had a bad experience in a program and mistakenly think that everyone has the same experience they did which we all know is impossible.
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No, botch. I asked you to specify you didn't want to. You didn't specify that in your original topic.
Who the hell do you think you are trying to make rules on my thread ????
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Whooter this thread is a useless waste of cyberspace. I wouldn't participate in this thread if I were you. If you do decide to participate in this thread, Botch should specify the specific problem. Is Botch referring to eating disorders, addictions, etc?
Maybe my question is too simple for complicated minds.. Just name programs you youself approve or you think are good programs... Damn it is so simple
All the programs are good, Botched. I think this is the point you are missing. There may be people who work for various programs who are bad and there may be programs which went bad over time, but I think we can all agree that programs are essentially good and are designed to help people.
I think one of the issues people have is they had a bad experience in a program and mistakenly think that everyone has the same experience they did which we all know is impossible.
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I see the fact is you can not answer the question and give the names of the programs because you don't know any !!!!
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Whooter this thread is a useless waste of cyberspace. I wouldn't participate in this thread if I were you. If you do decide to participate in this thread, Botch should specify the specific problem. Is Botch referring to eating disorders, addictions, etc?
Maybe my question is too simple for complicated minds.. Just name programs you youself approve or you think are good programs... Damn it is so simple
All the programs are good, Botched. I think this is the point you are missing. There may be people who work for various programs who are bad and there may be programs which went bad over time, but I think we can all agree that programs are essentially good and are designed to help people.
I think one of the issues people have is they had a bad experience in a program and mistakenly think that everyone has the same experience they did which we all know is impossible.
...
I see the fact is you can not answer the question and give the names of the programs because you don't know any !!!!
Well I did answer your question, Botched, so we agree that all programs are good at the onset. I think the next step should be to look at staff members. I dont think the same can be said about them. I am sure there are staff members who are less than good and their actions can give programs a bad name.
...
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Whooter this thread is a useless waste of cyberspace. I wouldn't participate in this thread if I were you. If you do decide to participate in this thread, Botch should specify the specific problem. Is Botch referring to eating disorders, addictions, etc?
Maybe my question is too simple for complicated minds.. Just name programs you youself approve or you think are good programs... Damn it is so simple
All the programs are good, Botched. I think this is the point you are missing. There may be people who work for various programs who are bad and there may be programs which went bad over time, but I think we can all agree that programs are essentially good and are designed to help people.
I think one of the issues people have is they had a bad experience in a program and mistakenly think that everyone has the same experience they did which we all know is impossible.
...
I see the fact is you can not answer the question and give the names of the programs because you don't know any !!!!
Well I did answer your question, Botched, so we agree that all programs are good at the onset. I think the next step should be to look at staff members. I dont think the same can be said about them. I am sure there are staff members who are less than good and their actions can give programs a bad name.
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Whooter, you're being childish. Just name one specific program (other than ASR), which
you think is good. No need to overcomplicate this. Name one fucking place, the request
is simple enough. Joel already named several places - why can't you name a single one Whooter?
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San Cristobal Academy
17 and over
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Independence Center Residential Program
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Capstone Treatment Center
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Valleyhead, Inc.
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The only thing about Joel's places he is listing is they are for people 17 and up.. not young teens
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Germaine Lawrence
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It's still a program Botch. :soapbox:
Let's stick with 11 to 16
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Negative botch. It wasn't specified in your original post. You are changing things around in your favor and you did so as soon as another poster said Fulshear Academy looked good. Not gonna happen. Lets move on.
You can't make the rules on my thread ... So it is yes AGES 11-16... So grow up and quit trying to show grown up programs....
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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They are both scared to touch the 11-16 year old programs.... LOL... just like good little shills
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Brattleboro Retreat
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I still maintain that it would be much easier to name the few bad ones.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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I still maintain that it would be much easier to name the few bad ones.
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No... The names of the ones you approve of for 11-16 year olds is what we want... why keep trying to run around the question... OH WAIT ONE MINUTE.... THERE ARE NONE...
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Caron Adolescent Residential Treatment Center
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Montcalm School for Girls
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Fulshear Ranch Academy
http://www.fulshearranchacademy.com (http://www.fulshearranchacademy.com)
I was curious, so I took a quick peek at the website - and I must admit - they definately
seem to have their shit together.
Assuming that everything posted there is true, here are a few things I saw on Fulshear's website that I like:
1.) They are staffed with qualified and licensed therapists/professionals. Big Plus that
the staff actually have real training & education!
2.) They have a written game plan (forgive me I don't know the techinical term)
with a plausible completion goal, including specific milestones towards acheiving
that final goal. I like the fact that the majority of the program focuses on helping
the client live on their own outside from the main facility, but still offers whatever
support they might need. Fulshear seems intent on keeping their clients part of
the outside world during their time there, rather than isolating them from it
(highly unlike most programs I know of).
3.) The clientel are between 18-24 years old, which suggests to me that participatation
in the program is strictly voluntary, and as such the participants can pull themselves out
and leave anytime they want to. I feel that personal choice is the single greatest factor
of determining whether therapy works or not. If you don't really want to get better, then
no amount of therapy can help you. Enrollment in any program should be strictly voluntary
for the participant.
4.) The program seems highly individualized, with each person progressing at their
own pace. Huge plus! Everyone is different. Therapy should be individualized to
meet each clients specific needs.
5.) I didn't see any red-flagg buzz-words like "emotional growth", "behavior modifiction", "Raps", "life springs","dianetics", "profeet", "dead/insane/in jail", or
any of the other cult-inspired, money-scamming, bullshit terms posted anywhere.
Again this is all based on my assumption that the website is being truthful; however,
based on what I've read: Fulshear definately seems to be the polar opposite of my own personal program hellhole - Cedu!
You can't be serious. This is an InnerChange program:
Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24481&p=327137#p327137) on 01 Mar 2009 in the SOLACIUM Holdings LLC (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24481) thread:
I have found extensive information about "Solacium Fulshear Ranch" as they now sometimes call themselves. They have several alias's: Fulshear Ranch Academy, I-4 Investment Group, Solacium Fulshear LLC. While they tout themselves as a therapeutic ranch, they don't help these women at all. They instead have them brainwashed! The facility is not fenced, but the girls won't leave because they believe that if they leave they have nowhere to go.
I wouldn't mind sharing notes and learning any info anyone might have...I have a 3-inch binder full of info on Fulshear Ranch Academy and the "goings'-on" so if you are interested, reply.
[/list]
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This is an InnerChange program.
InnerChange was formerly known as Solacium Holdings LLC.
Incidentally, L. Jay Mitchell, co-founder of SUWS, Alldredge Academy, and Greenbrier Academy among others, used to be part of Solacium for a while.
As a bit of a non sequitur, John Reuben of STICC would know all about that, given that STICC recently merged with the Alldredge Family Foundation (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=29607).
Interestingly enough, fwiw, during one of the rare lulls in Whooter's prodigious output, an alleged Ed Con by the name of "KathyS" (thought by many, at the time, to be yet another of Whooter's sock puppets) posted the following in response to pretty much the same query as is currently being posed, i.e., "name one good program":
Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25983&start=45#p323995) on 21 Jan 2009 in the Wow, obama is going to win (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25983) thread:
...I could never give a full list of schools, but a few that come to mind are:
Wil Lou Gray
The Academy
The family foundation school
Fulshear ranch academy
Most of the Aspen schools and wilderness programs
[/list]
Coincidentally, again as a bit of a non sequitur, John Reuben has a younger sister by the name of Catherine.
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Psychologically, there is a HUGE difference between a program you have chosen, as an adult, to enter, and a program that your parents or other authority chose for you against your will, from which there is no escape.
This is the main reason why, I believe, adult programs can be effective and teen programs generally are not. Even when they succeed, the kid ends up like Max, no individuality, no mind of their own.
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Psychologically, there is a HUGE difference between a program you have chosen, as an adult, to enter, and a program that your parents or other authority chose for you against your will, from which there is no escape.
This is the main reason why, I believe, adult programs can be effective and teen programs generally are not. Even when they succeed, the kid ends up like Max, no individuality, no mind of their own.
'Cept there is no real max.
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This is an InnerChange program.
InnerChange was formerly known as Solacium Holdings LLC.
Incidentally, L. Jay Mitchell, co-founder of SUWS, Alldredge Academy, and Greenbrier Academy among others, used to be part of Solacium for a while.
As a bit of a non sequitur, John Reuben of STICC would know all about that, given that STICC recently merged with the Alldredge Family Foundation (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=29607).
Interestingly enough, fwiw, during one of the rare lulls in Whooter's prodigious output, an alleged Ed Con by the name of "KathyS" (thought by many, at the time, to be yet another of Whooter's sock puppets) posted the following in response to pretty much the same query as is currently being posed, i.e., "name one good program":
Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25983&start=45#p323995) on 21 Jan 2009 in the Wow, obama is going to win (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25983) thread:
...I could never give a full list of schools, but a few that come to mind are:
Wil Lou Gray
The Academy
The family foundation school
Fulshear ranch academy
Most of the Aspen schools and wilderness programs
[/list]
Coincidentally, again as a bit of a non sequitur, John Reuben has a younger sister by the name of Catherine.
Ver,very interesting Ursus. 2 + 2 = 4 , Reuben = Whooter. :rocker:
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Psychologically, there is a HUGE difference between a program you have chosen, as an adult, to enter, and a program that your parents or other authority chose for you against your will, from which there is no escape.
This is the main reason why, I believe, adult programs can be effective and teen programs generally are not. Even when they succeed, the kid ends up like Max, no individuality, no mind of their own.
So you must be aware that the admin of this forum did exactly what you described, entered an adult program of their own choosing and signed themselves in as an adult. It's good to see you have decided for Psy that his programs was effective, and the one's for teens are not. Lucky for us we have people like you who can make that distinction for everyone else. Guess we'll have to find a new admin then, right? Because according to the great wisdom of ShadyAcres, Psy went to an effective program, and all of us who had good experiences in a program as teens must be full of it.
Talking about no individuality or mind of their own, welcome to fornits. The reason I am so hated here is precisely because I have a mind of my own, and have the ability to come to my own conclusions on my experience in the program. Most posters here mold their own beliefs to fit in with the group, so much for individuality.
Look. You are probably white, is that right? You also probably come from a relatively well off family, if they could afford to send you to a program. Have you noticed there aren't a lot of kids who were sent to juvenile hall and abused by guards posting here? It seems to be mostly limited to rich white kids, who are in a desperate need of something to blame why their life turned out the way it did. So you can throw a pity party here, and some of the resident victims might even agree with you, and support you in your quest to find something to blame. But in the end of the day, the truth is that you can't let go of your anger because you aren't really angry at the program, or your parents, or society. You are angry at yourself, for getting yourself into a situation that you couldn't handle. Be honest, did you cry yourself to sleep at the program the first night?
It can feel good to blame other people,and most importantly to label yourself a victim. But you are a product of your own decisions in life, which have led you to fornits which is nothing more than a bunch of spoiled rich kids whining about how they got sent to boarding school, and the truth is nobody cares but the other self absorbed, self described victims that post here. So let's all hold hands, and embrace our group victim status, and hopefully somebody will listen. Have you ever considered writing a letter to your congressman?
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Fulshear Ranch Academy
http://www.fulshearranchacademy.com (http://www.fulshearranchacademy.com)
I was curious, so I took a quick peek at the website - and I must admit - they definately
seem to have their shit together.
Assuming that everything posted there is true, here are a few things I saw on Fulshear's website that I like:
1.) They are staffed with qualified and licensed therapists/professionals. Big Plus that
the staff actually have real training & education!
2.) They have a written game plan (forgive me I don't know the techinical term)
with a plausible completion goal, including specific milestones towards acheiving
that final goal. I like the fact that the majority of the program focuses on helping
the client live on their own outside from the main facility, but still offers whatever
support they might need. Fulshear seems intent on keeping their clients part of
the outside world during their time there, rather than isolating them from it
(highly unlike most programs I know of).
3.) The clientel are between 18-24 years old, which suggests to me that participatation
in the program is strictly voluntary, and as such the participants can pull themselves out
and leave anytime they want to. I feel that personal choice is the single greatest factor
of determining whether therapy works or not. If you don't really want to get better, then
no amount of therapy can help you. Enrollment in any program should be strictly voluntary
for the participant.
4.) The program seems highly individualized, with each person progressing at their
own pace. Huge plus! Everyone is different. Therapy should be individualized to
meet each clients specific needs.
5.) I didn't see any red-flagg buzz-words like "emotional growth", "behavior modifiction", "Raps", "life springs","dianetics", "profeet", "dead/insane/in jail", or
any of the other cult-inspired, money-scamming, bullshit terms posted anywhere.
Again this is all based on my assumption that the website is being truthful; however,
based on what I've read: Fulshear definately seems to be the polar opposite of my own personal program hellhole - Cedu!
You can't be serious. This is an InnerChange program:
Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24481&p=327137#p327137) on 01 Mar 2009 in the SOLACIUM Holdings LLC (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24481) thread:
I have found extensive information about "Solacium Fulshear Ranch" as they now sometimes call themselves. They have several alias's: Fulshear Ranch Academy, I-4 Investment Group, Solacium Fulshear LLC. While they tout themselves as a therapeutic ranch, they don't help these women at all. They instead have them brainwashed! The facility is not fenced, but the girls won't leave because they believe that if they leave they have nowhere to go.
I wouldn't mind sharing notes and learning any info anyone might have...I have a 3-inch binder full of info on Fulshear Ranch Academy and the "goings'-on" so if you are interested, reply.
[/list]
Like I said in my first email - my earlier comments were based on the assumption that what I read at the Fulshear website was truthful. I qualified my statement in this way, because the only information I'd seen re: Fulshear came from their website. If the website's information is fabricated, and Fulshear really is a mind-fuck factory in disquise - then obviously I don't support them. I oppose any facility that brainwashes people.
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Gosh max/suckit you have posted previously that your parents "couldn't afford" this or that, which would seem to indicate that you were not rich. So how did your parents afford to send you to a program? My parents certainly were not wealthy either. So your post describing us all as spoiled rich kids must have been another of those little stories you like to make up. BTW please name the program that you supposedly attended. I know many troubled teens needing help and since you describe your program as a utopian heaven on earth I would like the name and address so i can reccomend its services to everyone. Seems like you would want to do the same thing.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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How do we define good program? What are the criteria?
Firstly "do no harm".
None of them - no not one - can be said to be harmless.
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How do we define good program? What are the criteria?
Firstly "do no harm".
None of them - no not one - can be said to be harmless.
We need to loosen up the criteria a little bit. I dont think there is anyplace that is completely free from harm. People get hurt at high schools, McDonalds, church etc.
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Psychologically, there is a HUGE difference between a program you have chosen, as an adult, to enter, and a program that your parents or other authority chose for you against your will, from which there is no escape.
This is the main reason why, I believe, adult programs can be effective and teen programs generally are not. Even when they succeed, the kid ends up like Max, no individuality, no mind of their own.
So you must be aware that the admin of this forum did exactly what you described, entered an adult program of their own choosing and signed themselves in as an adult. It's good to see you have decided for Psy that his programs was effective, and the one's for teens are not. Lucky for us we have people like you who can make that distinction for everyone else. Guess we'll have to find a new admin then, right? Because according to the great wisdom of ShadyAcres, Psy went to an effective program, and all of us who had good experiences in a program as teens must be full of it.
Max, I said I BELIEVE they CAN be effective, I did not say they ARE effective. I have been in both, graduating from the adult rehab. Though I don't consider it effective, it could have been, no program will work until the subject wants it to.
Talking about no individuality or mind of their own, welcome to fornits. The reason I am so hated here is precisely because I have a mind of my own, and have the ability to come to my own conclusions on my experience in the program. Most posters here mold their own beliefs to fit in with the group, so much for individuality.
Look. You are probably white, is that right? You also probably come from a relatively well off family, if they could afford to send you to a program. Have you noticed there aren't a lot of kids who were sent to juvenile hall and abused by guards posting here? It seems to be mostly limited to rich white kids, who are in a desperate need of something to blame why their life turned out the way it did. So you can throw a pity party here, and some of the resident victims might even agree with you, and support you in your quest to find something to blame. But in the end of the day, the truth is that you can't let go of your anger because you aren't really angry at the program, or your parents, or society. You are angry at yourself, for getting yourself into a situation that you couldn't handle. Be honest, did you cry yourself to sleep at the program the first night?
For the record, we had been middle class until the divorce, Mom put the program on Dad's insurance. I had nothing to do with causing the situation I was in, which you know nothing about. And I spent my first night at LIFE bruised and bloody and worried that I might have broken my oldcomers foot (he only had one) by stomping on it repeatedly to get him to let go of my belt loop.
It can feel good to blame other people,and most importantly to label yourself a victim. But you are a product of your own decisions in life, which have led you to fornits which is nothing more than a bunch of spoiled rich kids whining about how they got sent to boarding school, and the truth is nobody cares but the other self absorbed, self described victims that post here. So let's all hold hands, and embrace our group victim status, and hopefully somebody will listen. Have you ever considered writing a letter to your congressman?
Wow, did I strike a nerve?
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A good program is a specialized program which deal with participants who apply to be there in person and can opt out without consequences if circumstances speak for it.
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Name One Good Program: All In The Family
::deadhorse:: :twofinger: :fuckoff: :poison:
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A good program is a specialized program which deal with participants who apply to be there in person and can opt out without consequences if circumstances speak for it.
Like Meadow Haven, for instance. I was in therapy there for a year and it was nothing but a positive experience.
www.meadowhaven.org (http://www.meadowhaven.org)
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A good program is a specialized program which deal with participants who apply to be there in person and can opt out without consequences if circumstances speak for it.
That would probably be the best scenario, I agree. But if the child is underage then, by law, they need to get a parents consent to leave. I cant see a program just allowing a 15 year old kid just say "I am leaving" and then just let them walk off. That would be very dangerous in my opinion and the program should be held liable if they allowed this to happen.
...
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How do we define good program? What are the criteria?
Firstly "do no harm".
None of them - no not one - can be said to be harmless.
We need to loosen up the criteria a little bit. I dont think there is anyplace that is completely free from harm. People get hurt at high schools, McDonalds, church etc.
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Let me amend my comment then: Do no Intentional harm. Regarding the Privately owned, for profit teen help industry not one of them qualifies.
They have to inflict harm to break the kid down - and thats what they do.
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This is an InnerChange program.
InnerChange was formerly known as Solacium Holdings LLC.
Incidentally, L. Jay Mitchell, co-founder of SUWS, Alldredge Academy, and Greenbrier Academy among others, used to be part of Solacium for a while.
As a bit of a non sequitur, John Reuben of STICC would know all about that, given that STICC recently merged with the Alldredge Family Foundation (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=29607).
Interestingly enough, fwiw, during one of the rare lulls in Whooter's prodigious output, an alleged Ed Con by the name of "KathyS" (thought by many, at the time, to be yet another of Whooter's sock puppets) posted the following in response to pretty much the same query as is currently being posed, i.e., "name one good program":
Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25983&start=45#p323995) on 21 Jan 2009 in the Wow, obama is going to win (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25983) thread:
...I could never give a full list of schools, but a few that come to mind are:
Wil Lou Gray
The Academy
The family foundation school
Fulshear ranch academy
Most of the Aspen schools and wilderness programs
[/list]
Coincidentally, again as a bit of a non sequitur, John Reuben has a younger sister by the name of Catherine.
WOW, where have I heard this before. OH, coincidentally, again as a bit of a non sequitur, from members here on fornits.
I have a cousin named Catherine and she goes by Catherine, hates Cathy.
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SIBS!!!
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SIBS!!!
BRIALLIANT!!
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We have shown that there are good and bad programs.
The key is to match a childs needs to a program in which he or she will be successful. Even in the best program if the child digs in his/her heels and doesnt apply themselves then they will be unsuccessful and end up here on forints blaming the program and his/her parents for their lifes outcome and lost opportunities.
There are occasions where the child is mismatched and the program is not effective but this is typically noticed early on and the program recommends that the child leave the program and try a new approach. The last thing a program wants is to have an unsuccessful child pass through their system. Public school systems dont mind but programs depend on word of mouth to keep them growing.
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Every word of this posting is utter nonsense. None of it is true.
The key is to match a childs needs to a program in which he or she will be successful.
Completly untrue. Programs only care if you can pay your bill, that's it. Why else would they have the most watered down admittiance criteria, or be willing to have virtually anyone sign off on a childs evaluation?
Even in the best program if the child digs in his/her heels and doesnt apply themselves then they will be unsuccessful and end up here on forints blaming the program and his/her parents for their lifes outcome and lost opportunities.
Are you sure? I was smart enough to avoid the brainwashing at HLA, and I can assure you, I am a much more succesful adult for it. I don't blame anyone for anything, and am genuinely happy with the state of my life. I haven't missed out on anything, and would undobtedly feel I had, had I stayed locked up in that kiddie prison.
There are occasions where the child is mismatched and the program is not effective but this is typically noticed early on and the program recommends that the child leave the program and try a new approach.
Really? Then why do programs offer their unlicensed counselors bonuses for keeping kids for the duration of the program? How many examples can you as an industry insider, cite where a program dismissed a child stating, "He's fine, and doesnt need to be here."?
The last thing a program wants is to have an unsuccessful child pass through their system. Public school systems dont mind but programs depend on word of mouth to keep them growing.
That would explain why so many programs are shutting down. We can all agree they all start out with the intent of bilking parents and abusing kids. Public schools use standarized testing and teacher ratings to ensure that kids are not passed through. Programs don't allow kids to fail grades, education always comes secondary there. Some of them , like ASR, don't even offer legitimate diplomas.
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Sorry, Bruce, you are trolling again. Your detail doesnt warrant a response because it is not based on any knowledge and lacks personal experience. You are a 30 day wonder at best (actually 3 weeks).
I would strongly suggest you stick to the Drama threads.
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Let me amend my comment then: Do no Intentional harm.
So we would have to find programs which intentionally harm kids. We would have to define harm, also, because many here consider anything which is forced on a child as being harmful.
Forced to go to group meeting? forced to brush their teeth? Forced to walk for thee miles? forced to clean their rooms? Forced to go to LGAT meetings? Forced to spend time with their parents when they visit? Forced to eat the food?
I think it would be difficult to come up with a standard definition in-which everyone agrees.
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Sorry, Bruce, you are trolling again. Your detail doesnt warrant a response because it is not based on any knowledge and lacks personal experience. You are a 30 day wonder at best (actually 3 weeks).
I would strongly suggest you stick to the Drama threads.
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Whoops sounds like you can't respond to the post at hand. I know it stings John, but I can't allow you to move forward until you accept accountability for your actions. Now, you once again have 24 hours to either back up your claims regarding me, or retract them. If no action is taken I'll find someone else in your life to clue in to your extra ciriculars.
In the mean time I suggest you focus on this topic at hand, and not try to once again derail a thread. A challenge has been forward to you to present a program that's actually does some good and does not harm kids. So far you seem to keep coming up empty. It sounds like we can all now agree there are no good programs, all of them are abusive.
If you wish to discuss the other matter with me you may always PM me, or bring to one of your many threads. I recommend 'John Reuben's Garbage Depot'. I know you hate accountability John, but I'm doing this for your own good. You're going to have to face this. You can wiggle wiggle, but you can't get free.
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No studies have ever shown that coercive/forced therapy does any good whatsoever. Given that all of the TTI programs are based on such a philosphy, it would stand to reason none of them do any good.
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program people = 99.9% lyin' bastards.
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I was in a program for teens in the 80's and I'm still upset over it.
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Upset that they wouldn't hire you on?
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Upset that they wouldn't hire you on?
:roflmao: :moon: :twofinger: :cheers: :rasta: :nods:
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I was in a program for teens in the 80's and I'm still upset over it.
Upset that they wouldn't hire you on?
The thread is about "Naming a good Program" not making fun of other people, Bruce, lets stay on topic.
See this further proves my point, Bruce. If you really did spend time in a program you wouldn't be making fun of other survivors and their posts.
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See this further proves my point, Bruce. If you really did spend time in a program you wouldn't be making fun of other survivors and their posts.
No John, proof would be you providing a link or a pdf or even verification from a reliable source who could verify your claim. So far though you don't seem to be able to do any of those things, or anything else that might actually make someone with half a brain believe you. Remember John, I can prove how long I was at HLA, you can't. Nothing you can do can change that fact, because no matter how many pictures of Pinochio you put up, you're the one who has to lie about things, I don't. Stings doesn't it Johnny?
As far as Max goes, hse herself claims that she was never abused in her program. That being the case what did she actually survive? Since she goes so far as to support the same child abuse that you do, I have no issue calling her on it. If hers or your feelings are hurt, so be it. I don't care, get over it. It's not my fault that you and yours aren't capable of having any affect on us.