Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 30, 2003, 08:48:00 PM
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Someone said that Spring Creek Lodge has about 450 kids. Not only is this bizarre if it is true, it is a cash cow blow out! $1.8 MILLION A MONTH!!!!! Pleeeezzzzeeeeee! This is only one of the programs, does anyone have the numbers on the other? What I would liek to know also is does SCL have the quota for employees to meet this number of kids? What parent would place there kid in a group of over 400 kids? Talk about an assembly line and cookie cutter program. With or without abuse, it is insane to think your kids can get help with that many others.
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Not that it makes a HUGE difference, but Spring Creek Lodge is $2900 a month. If they do indeed have 400 kids, they aren't all running around in a big crowd out of control. They have their groups, I think I saw Melissa mention the name of her "family" - After all these years, they can handle it...it would just be a matter of hiring enough staff.
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Whats far more interesting is that one of former program directors stated publicly that he sent 80% of the revenue to WWASP. That means those kids are being supervised, fed, clothed, and "treated" on $580 a month. Any professional in mental health can tell you that it costs at the minimum more than twice that amount to actually treat someone in a residential setting. Decent food, electricity, and running water alone would cost that much.
WWASP just pockets the money and if your kid lives through it is only by luck because when they get sick at the program they are denied medical care and little problems like sanitation become big problems when you have 500 people swimming in the same shit.
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Are you talking about Amberley Knight, the former director of Dundee that didn't know her ass from a hole in the ground and instead of being fired, chose to quit before the heat burned her ass? Yeah, right, I'd believe anything she says!! NOT! that came from one of those newspaper articles, right?
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There are now 500+ kids at SCL. There are about 20 lower level male and female families, and they are supervised 'round the clock, shuffled in and out of classrooms, cafeteria, etc. The facility at Spring Creek is just not large enough to accomodate that many kids. They had to move all the upper level students off the facility and bus them in each day. When I was on the upper levels I lived in a house about 20 minutes away from the facility at one point. Since there are so many kids, the majority of time is spent walking to and from places, "orderly", sitting in class, standing in line to eat.... it cuts into nearly 2/3 of mealtimes, and 1/3 of classtimes....and then a good portion of the time in class you're being hounded and harassed by the "teachers". It's incredibly difficult to get any work done. Kids have to sit on the floor, there aren't ever enough chairs, food runs out and you get whatever scraps are in the kitchen if you're "last lunch," there is never enough toilet paper, and the place is always filthy, laundry gets bumped back weeks and weeks, so you're without clean uniforms, but worry not, they still find all the time in the world to pick, prod, discipline, manipulate, consequent, etc.
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Its crazy parents would pay so much for their child to be imprisoned on about 2 acres of land in a program that has a history of abuse. All I can say is: SELLFISH.
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The parents are not crazy, they were desperate and lied to. And I am certain that SCL is more then $2900.00 a month. Either way, it is in the millions. I have to believe parents thought they were getting help, sure some may just want to get rid of the kids but many wanted help. So many borrowed there 401K, IRA's loans etc, not all rich people, if they just wanted to dump a kid, give them to the state. No, most of these parents really thougth they were helping.
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For the majority of the parents and teens (families) it does help and they weren't lied to by whoever you think lied to them besides their child. http://www.wwasprebuttal.com (http://www.wwasprebuttal.com) - I read it and I'm crazy enough to believe it, just like I'm crazy enough to believe the http://www.purerebuttal.com (http://www.purerebuttal.com) site. I do not believe Ryan Fraidenberg, Ashley from Tx that was on Inside Edition, and only 10% of what I read in the newspapers. I believe the graduates of the schools, they are the results of self-commitment to change their lives. Funny, they didn't get where they are FOR their parents, they did it for themselves.
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FOOD FOR THOUGHT - If WWASPS was so wonderful, why wwasprebuttal? why would there be 2 BIG lawfirms (masrey and vititoe and huron law group) willing to represent the victims of WWASPS on a contingency? becasue they think they would lose? NOT. If you had great results from WWASPS that is great, but what about all these victims? Do you actually condone the abuse? Oh, you think they are lying? the truth will come out in court and these victims will be heard. So go ahead and sing your praises of WWASPS, becasue if they were so great, you wouldnt have to be defendign them so boldly. I have never seen any other schools hire PR firms, create websites to discredit truths etc.
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Or you wouldn't be trying to discredit "THEM" so much more boldly, don't ya think? Every RTC, BM, etc., has the same allegations, some true, some not. They're ALL bad and the parents should keep it within the family, never get help outside in this form. Period. No one program is better than another. Period.
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To get back to the original premise of this thread...
Casa by the Sea costs $1990 a month. Add to this the huge initiation fees, which means you pay more than $5000 the first time to get your kid going. Additional costs are $95 a month for personal items (like soap, shampoo, things that should be covered by $2 Grand a month), a "personal allowance fund" (required) of $100 a month, which usually gets eaten up by consequences and infractions, unconsciounably-inflated medical fees of up to 5 times the costs of US office visits, with an additional $75 transportation fee to take your kid the 3 miles into Ensenada (if you can get your kid to a doctor, dentist, or orthodontist at all), laundry and uniform fees (shouldn't this be included for $3K a month?) and any other incidental fees they may be able to "make up". Add to this the long-distance calls; all calls (if there are any) from child to parent are collect...at exhorbitant operator-assisted international rates. If a parent tries to call on their appointed day, the Family Rep is frequently/usually not available, requiring several other attempts. [Each completed call, even to a machine, constitutes an international long-distance call.] A parent can usually expect to shell out between $2500 and $3000 or much more per month for the "greater value, due to the foreign location" Mexican variation of WWASPS.
Multiply that by the 570 kids that were there 2 months ago. That is equal to (at the $2500 average) $1.425 Million. At the high end, $3000, that is $1.71 Million. The percentage going to Utah???? Purported to be 75% from foreign locations, this equals 1.07 MILLION DOLLARS per month, just from this one location.
The impact of these fees depends on who the parents are. If they have their accountant make out the checks, so what? If they are making payments on a second mortgage on a house they hoped to pay off by retirement and now face payments until they, the parents, are 87 years old...that is something else. Hey, it's their choice, and they think somehow that this phantom stranger with underpaid, untrained, downright dangerous and sadistic employees will fix what they, the parents, cannot...then caveat emptor (i.e., tough shit).
Obviously, there should be some of those fees directed to therapists, etc., but in Mexico, it costs $950 for a preliminary placement interview with Dr. Chappius, and any additonal time with him is charged at $150 an hour (often charged; seldom really materializes). Chappius apparently spends 2 weeks a month at TB, leaving 2 more weeks a month to travel and attend to all the other 1500 or so kids at other WWASPS facilities. Three and a half minutes of quality psychiatric time...that'll fix everything.
These Utah guys have a lot at stake. Be careful. They obviously know how to play hardball.
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Wow, that is a chunk of change, even for the more affluent families. Do school districts pay for these schools under the provisions of the IDEA act like some of the other emotional growth boarding schools (e.g. Elan)?
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What do you mean "be careful ... "these guys obviously know how to play hardball"?
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Anon,
Get in line behind the rest of us SUCKERS. You keep telling youreself that all is ok sister.How great WWASP is. One day it WILL bite you in the ass.
Get real. Graduates.? Pleeese.
The poor kids! They are afraid to be sent back under the warranty.
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Being afraid to be sent back? I would think that's a good thing - stay clean, out of trouble, then they wouldn't be sent back. No one sends their kid back for normal teenage stuff, do they?
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Any guess-timates on how much money these programs have contributed to the LDS (Mormon) coffers?
:smokin:
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the standard tithe is ten percent. i'm not sure if that's calculated on the gross or the net.
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Can we say CASH COW here?
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Since when are companies asked for a "tithe" - I thought that was an individual thing given to their church. Don't Catholics or other churches have donations or love offerings - it doesn't matter what the name for it is, they all do it. And what difference does it make? Healing families doesn't come free unless you expect your state to do it for you. LOL!
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Incidentals - 400 times $95.00 per month is another how much? My God, how much money does one make off of desperate parents and IMHO abusing kids?
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$38,000.00 so what does that pay for?
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On 2003-10-06 17:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Incidentals - 400 times $95.00 per month is another how much? My God, how much money does one make off of desperate parents and IMHO abusing kids?"
Well, if that's what parents are willing to pay to control their children, so be it. I mean, this is an industry driven by PARENT DEMAND. These parents had a choice to JUST SAY NO!!!
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Amen. The parents were very negligent.
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On 2003-10-01 19:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Being afraid to be sent back? I would think that's a good thing - stay clean, out of trouble, then they wouldn't be sent back. No one sends their kid back for normal teenage stuff, do they? "
According to a growing number of former WWASP parents, a lot of them send their kids in there for normal teenaged stuff in the first place. But what's normal? Is criticizing the program not one of the signs of returning to old, manupulative ways? Do you really want your kid to go through life just going through the motions to please you because they're afraid you'll send them off to be tortured? I know you must be pretty emersed in program dogma these days. But to the rest of the world, do you have any idea how utterly sick that is?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid
of the dark. The real tragedy of life is
when men are afraid of the light.
--Plato
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Parents are tryng to get the kids help. they were frauded, told that there would be a cultural experience, education, therapy, and we got lies. Dont say we agreed to this abuse, we didnt. We were not told about OP or the truth of.
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I don't care how emotional you were when your child was in crisis - each of the schools has a very different version of "OP" - did you think your child would be sent to their room or grounded when they tried to hurt someone or themselves? Get real! They are "observed" away from their peers for however long it takes.
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Being OBSERVED is different from being abused. Being OBSERVED is not having your arms twisted, haveing large people sit on you, having your chin crushed into the concrte floor, having to lay in one position for hours with very brief intervals, Sorry OP was never described for the reality it is. Why do you think that is?
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Well, obviously some parents believe the ends justify the means. How else can you explain such indifference to the safety and well-being of these kids? Second, ignorance is NOT AN EXCUSE but sure seems to be used by parents in lieu of taking the greater responsibility for the care and treatment of their own kids.
:roll:
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Parents are tryng to get the kids help. they were frauded, told that there would be a cultural experience, education, therapy, and we got lies. Dont say we agreed to this abuse, we didnt. We were not told about OP or the truth of.
Yes you were told about OP. They did not call it OP, but you were told about it. It is in the contract, you just did not understand what you were signing evidently. It even states that those who place your child in OP were not trained or qualified in any way to do so...it goes further to say that you could not hold the school liable if something happened to your child because of the untrained staff that placed them in OP.
Yes the brochure show quite a glossy view of the places, but the contract you signed is quite to the contrary, it says something very different.
Well, obviously some parents believe the ends justify the means. How else can you explain such indifference to the safety and well-being of these kids? Second, ignorance is NOT AN EXCUSE but sure seems to be used by parents in lieu of taking the greater responsibility for the care and treatment of their own kids.
That says it all!
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-10-07 05:25 ]
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I'm just curious about how the contract reads regarding OP. Anyone have a copy of a contract and willing to spell it out? How WWASP describes it to parents, that is.
In my situation (not wwasp) there were things mentioned in the parent handbook, but they were implemented very differently. There was no mention of the "restriction diet". It was touched on at the parent workshop before the first visit. The headmaster told parents they would probably hear about it, but not to worry- while "sparse" he had it approved by the health dept.
Months later, and many red flags later I checked with the health dept. They had never talked to anyone at the facility and further stated that it wasn't in their scope to approved any kind of diet.
That wasn't the only discrepency in stated policy and procedure.
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Observation Place isn't described in any way shape or form; at least in my experience.
It was only mentioned to me when my son got sent there; and the description I was given when I asked what it was, was in no way accurate.
As I've said before - judging from people's reaction on the BBS when I mentioned it, after learning what it is, really; I don't think any of the parents have a clue. There were several adamant denials from parents who had been at the 'schools'that any such thing existed.
It was assumed to be more manipulation by the kids.
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On 2003-10-07 10:36:00, KarenZ wrote:
"Observation Place isn't described in any way shape or form; at least in my experience.
It was only mentioned to me when my son got sent there; and the description I was given when I asked what it was, was in no way accurate.
As I've said before - judging from people's reaction on the BBS when I mentioned it, after learning what it is, really; I don't think any of the parents have a clue. There were several adamant denials from parents who had been at the 'schools'that any such thing existed.
It was assumed to be more manipulation by the kids.
"
Karen, what I am getting from your statement is that no parent whose kid was in OP believes this was an appropriate form of restraint and seclusion. That says it all and quite frankly, these other parents who believe otherwise should ask themselves WHAT ARE THEY NOT SEEING!!
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Deb, there is a link to the TB contract on the ISAC document about TB..... you're right, it does not say anything about untrained personnel,but it does release the facility from any liability.
This is the standard WWASP contract, and there are few differences with the others. Pretty much all the contract is about is liability release, so that's why I question the ability of whatever lawsuit that is going on to call WWASP to order. They have released themselves from a lot of things people complain about. Each parent signed it, plain as day, so as far as the abuse allegations go, there is little hope on that. What I'm hoping is WWASP will go down for false advertisement and whatnot.
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Hell if htey disclosed that htey didn't have qualifed personal or really described OP in the contract, lets hope many of us would have woke up from our desperate state. Many of us THOUGHT we were getting therapy and help, not abuse and fraud.
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Dundee's contract is a fairly recent contract written. EVERY paragraph in it states that the "sponser will hold harmless....the program." So, when parents signed Dundee's contract they signed it with FULL knowledge of that statement. And almost every paragraph states that the staff members that were in control of the teens were not trained and not qualified. Parents who signed that contract were well aware of that fact.
Again, one of the red flags to me was the fact that the entire contract was written to protect the program and NOT the teens!
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On 2003-10-08 18:55:00, Carey wrote:
"Dundee's contract is a fairly recent contract written. EVERY paragraph in it states that the "sponser will hold harmless....the program." So, when parents signed Dundee's contract they signed it with FULL knowledge of that statement. And almost every paragraph states that the staff members that were in control of the teens were not trained and not qualified. Parents who signed that contract were well aware of that fact.
Again, one of the red flags to me was the fact that the entire contract was written to protect the program and NOT the teens!"
Let's just hope these parents kids are not so indifferent to RED FLAGS when it's time to commit their parent into an assisted-living-facility that relies upon untrained and unqualified staff.
:scared:
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I wonder if Joy Margolis is still the spokes lizard for Lutheran Services?
We ought to be grateful that our government monopoly schools are such a failure. If today's 18 year olds could do arithmetic, they'd be out buying enough rope to hang everybody over 40.
--Alan Handleman on Social Security
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Many Parents do believe that the end justifies the means - and know exactly what goes on. The problem is that, in a capatalist society, business is sacred, because $ is sacred. And WWASP sounds Cheap. CEDU Brown Schools/ Rocky Mountain Academy, Boulder Creek Acdemy, CEDU High School and Middle School comes at close to $8000 per month.
This problem most be solved politically, Because capatalist democracy really means "goverment of business, by business and for business" under the pretense of goverment by the people of the people and for the people - CEDU and WWASP represent business and money, and they can only be reformed by revolt on the Order and Magnitude of Enron - where legislators have to act or they risk loseing the false confidence of the people. That's why Regulators and Legislators in Idaho Ignore Legitimate complaints by workers, therapists, managers and advocates aimed toward these places.
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On 2003-10-14 18:21:00, Roy wrote:
"Many Parents do believe that the end justifies the means - and know exactly what goes on. The problem is that, in a capatalist society, business is sacred, because $ is sacred. And WWASP sounds Cheap. CEDU Brown Schools/ Rocky Mountain Academy, Boulder Creek Acdemy, CEDU High School and Middle School comes at close to $8000 per month.
This problem most be solved politically, Because capatalist democracy really means "goverment of business, by business and for business" under the pretense of goverment by the people of the people and for the people - CEDU and WWASP represent business and money, and they can only be reformed by revolt on the Order and Magnitude of Enron - where legislators have to act or they risk loseing the false confidence of the people. That's why Regulators and Legislators in Idaho Ignore Legitimate complaints by workers, therapists, managers and advocates aimed toward these places."
Don't forget to factor in the number of JOBS these organizations provide in predominately small-towns who are surely benefitting from the trickle-down effect.
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And the political donations.
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Hi Deborah, my name is Jeffery Gottdick? and I invite you to cum over to the elan school forum and chat with us.
I would love to hear your input on our forum and tell us what you think.
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We don't live in a capitalist democracy. We live in a constitutional republic. Rule of law, not of man. That formula once gave us the most astouncing free market and practically unimagined liberty.
In a free society, Synanon based programs wouldn't stand a chance. Given real choice in the market, who would tolerate the pablum pucking daytime talking heads who feed on parents (who, aprently haven't been out of the house for 30 years) fears? There would be no government curfews or government mandated interventions. It would not be a crime just to be 16 and out of your cage. There would be no demand.
Besides that, if ANYone did to any of my kin what these sadistic bastards do to kids every day, under our once vaunted Constitution, back in the day when a fair and speedy trial by a jury of my peers meant something; when they taught the Magna Carta as an important historic epoch; I would be well within my rights to take a baseball bat to the sons of bitches if that's what it took to defend my kid, brother, sister, niece, nephew or other dependent minor from them.
They're not generating good local jobs any more than prisons do. Just ask people who voted in favor of a local prison how wonderfully it's picked up their economy.
There would be no return on investment in public policy if we didn't give juvenile judges the power to arbitrarily sentence kids to these programs without due process. If we had the protection of the afore mentioned jury, instead of being dragged off as criminals for acts of concience, we wouldn't need to try and convince all these politicritters and bureaucrats to act against their own immediate interests as we're doing.
668: The Neighbor of the Beast
--Anonymous Postman