Fornits
General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: SUCK IT on August 09, 2010, 02:02:02 PM
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Hi, my name is SUCK IT and I'm an addict and alcoholic.
I need to make a thread here that is a safe place with people with sobriety and addiction issues can come and have a serious conversation and not be ridiculed and shunned.
This thread is going to be an ongoing AA/NA "meeting", in an online form. If you want to introduce yourself you can, or you can remain silent and just read. Please post your experiences with drugs and alcohol if you wish, and why you have problems with substance use and why you sought out help.
I've always had problems with using alcohol or drugs. I've tried to do it as other "normal" people do, but it always gets out of control very quickly. I have had serious health problems as a result and have been hospitalized, these days I am trying my best to be sober. At the moment I am almost winning at this goal, but sometimes I slip up. But I don't give up, I keep trying. I know that being completely sober is the best thing for me, and I am striving towards this goal as best as I can.
Let's make this thread a positive example of what fornits can be. If you want to debate AA please do it in one of the many threads that exist discussing that topic. This isn't about debating AA in this thread. Think of this thread as an online AA meeting. Would you walk into an ongoing AA meeting and begin to debate them, or ridicule them for seeking help? Well if you wouldn't do it in real life, please refrain from doing so in this thread, it will be greatly appreciated.
We can even make online images of fornits chapter sobriety chips, for people who choose to receive them. I think this can be the start of a very positive thing here on fornits. Please, please, please, leave this thread for the people who choose to utilize it and keep the debates in the other threads. This thread is for people to post their personal stories, and experiences about their difficulties with addiction and substance abuse, and things like this. Thank you so much.
Ok, let's get this meeting started. Let's support each other in our shared goal of sobriety and it will be easier than facing this challenge on our own.
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Damn, enough of you already!
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Damn, enough of you already!
None Ya, you were asked to relate to the topic. Now if you can't do this then I would suggest you refrain from any more posting on this thread. Is this simple enough to understand.
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Thanks for sharing Danno. Here is your chip (http://http://www.basic-info-4-organic-fertilizers.com/images/cowmanureNRCS.jpg)
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There are thousands of threads on fornits. I'm asking that people who can't be mature and respectful find one of those threads to post in. This is your chance to prove to the world that fornits posters are responsible and mature and can have an adult conversation. You are free to start your own "I hate SUCK IT" threads, but can you please keep this one open for people who want to have a serious conversation, thank you for your cooperation.
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will you be my sponcer?
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Let's make this thread a positive example of what fornits can be.
It IS a positive example of what Fornits can be because nobody can tell us what we can or cannot say/write.
If you want to debate AA please do it in one of the many threads that exist discussing that topic. This isn't about debating AA in this thread. Think of this thread as an online AA meeting. Would you walk into an ongoing AA meeting and begin to debate them, or ridicule them for seeking help? Well if you wouldn't do it in real life, please refrain from doing so in this thread, it will be greatly appreciated.
See my above response. If you want to start your own message board totally dedicated to the cult that is Stepcraft, fine, but there is no way in hell that you're gonna tell anyone here what we can do/say/write, especially regarding Stepcraft.
We can even make online images of fornits chapter sobriety chips, for people who choose to receive them. I think this can be the start of a very positive thing here on fornits. Please, please, please, leave this thread for the people who choose to utilize it and keep the debates in the other threads. This thread is for people to post their personal stories, and experiences about their difficulties with addiction and substance abuse, and things like this. Thank you so much.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Jeebus Crist....there are tons of online Stepcraft meetings. Why the need to fuck this forum up? (the only one that allows criticism of Stepcraft, which is what you're really trying to avoid)
Ok, let's get this meeting started. Let's support each other in our shared goal of sobriety and it will be easier than facing this challenge on our own.
Who's goal of sobriety? Do you realize where you are?
There's only a couple of you Stepcrafters here anyway. Go find one that one that won't allow critical thinking. There's tons of them with regards to AA/NA/OA/GA/XA. You can start a thread about AA/NA/OA/GA/XA here if you want, but don't think for a minute that you can control what people say here.
Here's your chip.....
(http://http://nysuperblog.squarespace.com/storage/dog%20shit.jpg?__)
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SUCK IT wrote;
" thank you for your cooperation."
Yea , we'll see how that works out (?)
And I just might take your advise and start that thread
Where to beguin? HHMMM...........
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Anne Bonney wrote
"Who's goal of sobriety? Do you realize where you are?"
Man why don"YOU go to a meeting.
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Let's make this thread a positive example of what fornits can be.
It IS a positive example of what Fornits can be because nobody can tell us what we can or cannot say/write.
If you want to debate AA please do it in one of the many threads that exist discussing that topic. This isn't about debating AA in this thread. Think of this thread as an online AA meeting. Would you walk into an ongoing AA meeting and begin to debate them, or ridicule them for seeking help? Well if you wouldn't do it in real life, please refrain from doing so in this thread, it will be greatly appreciated.
See my above response. If you want to start your own message board totally dedicated to the cult that is Stepcraft, fine, but there is no way in hell that you're gonna tell anyone here what we can do/say/write, especially regarding Stepcraft.
We can even make online images of fornits chapter sobriety chips, for people who choose to receive them. I think this can be the start of a very positive thing here on fornits. Please, please, please, leave this thread for the people who choose to utilize it and keep the debates in the other threads. This thread is for people to post their personal stories, and experiences about their difficulties with addiction and substance abuse, and things like this. Thank you so much.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Jeebus Crist....there are tons of online Stepcraft meetings. Why the need to fuck this forum up? (the only one that allows criticism of Stepcraft, which is what you're really trying to avoid)
Ok, let's get this meeting started. Let's support each other in our shared goal of sobriety and it will be easier than facing this challenge on our own.
Who's goal of sobriety? Do you realize where you are?
There's only a couple of you Stepcrafters here anyway. Go find one that one that won't allow critical thinking. There's tons of them with regards to AA/NA/OA/GA/XA. You can start a thread about AA/NA/OA/GA/XA here if you want, but don't think for a minute that you can control what people say here.
Here's your chip.....
I'm not telling anybody what to say, or what not to say. I did ask politely. This forum has thousands of threads and anybody can post a new one. I was just asking politely if people could keep the negativity in this thread to a minimum. I think if people want to help support each other in sobriety that's a good thing. If people who went through abusive programs have PTSD like you said, then they might also have issues with drug abuse/addiction. There are many threads dedicated to debating the usefulness of AA, this thread is not one of them.
This thread is an online version of an AA meeting where people can share their experiences and maybe even offer help and morale support to other people going through a similar problem of addiction and alcoholism. I never once hinted or claimed I am trying to control what people say on fornits. But if people have some respect they might consider the people who suffer with addiction might want to communicate minus the heated politics and just talk openly. This is an open free for all forum, I think one thread out of thousands and thousands discussing addiction will not harm the overall forum in any way. Chips are a tool to have a goal, and a sense of accomplishment. I will design some and post them eventually. Then people can choose to use their fornits chip as their avatar if they so choose.
Like I said, if this bothers some people, they are free to post about it. Yes, you can post here. Nobody can stop you. But think about it for a second. If you want to have a respectful conversation, then you must also respect other posters. I have been drawn into the negativity on fornits and regret it. I now choose to have respectful conversations, and I will simply ignore the childish postings and people who are unable or unwilling to speak like adults. Would anybody here burst into a real AA meeting and say the things that are posted here? I doubt it, so I am simply asking for the same respect you already give to AA in real life. Thanks again, anybody is free to participate. I don't hold grudges, and will respond to anybody who is respectful and mature.
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Who will be my sponcer?
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The problem with having a meeting on line is that you can't go trolling for the skanky sober women.
But while I'm here , could I get some coffee? Maybe bum smoke?
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Can I get a skanky sober women to be my sponcer?
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The problem with having a meeting on line is that you can't go trolling for the skanky sober women.
But while I'm here , could I get some coffee? Maybe bum smoke?
You and Anne could resemble that remark, just say'in. :ftard:
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Can I get a skanky sober women to be my sponcer?
You already are one.
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Wrongo Danno. what I've got made suck it think up his name.
How do I score a skanky sponcer? I want a sexoholick sponcer. Danno, I'm not a rentboy, so don't even offer.
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The problem with having a meeting on line is that you can't go trolling for the skanky sober women.
But while I'm here , could I get some coffee? Maybe bum smoke?
You and Anne could resemble that remark, just say'in. :ftard:
WOW!!!
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Danny B wrote
"You and Anne could resemble that remark, just say'in."
Miss Anne, I think he just called you sober.
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Oh well.
So much for your first meeting.
Kind of a dud huh?
Mayby next time, maybe not.
C-ya
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Oh yea. Ain't I supposed to get a white chip, just for being here?
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What is a white chip????
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http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=2048 (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=2048)
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Or
http://www.google.com/images?q=pictures ... CCsQsAQwAA (http://www.google.com/images?q=pictures+of+alcoholics+anonymous+chips&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7GGLL_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=T3pgTPb6JMT7lwfGiIGaCA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQsAQwAA)
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I've done it. Me, personally, not a friend. In a bar called The Point in Atlanta in Little Five Points in the late 90s. I happened to have a white chip a friend had given me that I was carrying as sort of a lucky charm. I was about out of money, but had been tipping well and the bartender was friendly. So I pulled out the chip and asked what I could get for it. He laughed and gave me a pabst tall boy
There is actually a bar in Denver called Killian's. Its off 15th & Glenarm. They actually have a wall behind the bar with years of chips hammered to the wall. Im not sure what you get for how much time, but when you bring them in the give you a round, clap and hammer the thing to the wall. Pretty funny actually.
That... is beautiful. :twofinger:
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Have you two been in AA, before. You sound like you have.
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It's all fun and games until you are the one hitting rock bottom unable to stop drinking or using with your life falling apart all around you. Many people think they are too smart or too clever to become addicted to alcohol or drugs, hitting rock bottom can be a humbling experience.
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Sometimes I have dreams, that seem very real. In these dreams I end up using again, drugs that I have had difficulties with. I had one last night smoking meth, I know in the dream I shouldn't be doing it, but I do it anyways. Then I get high, and I feel high in the dream and all the feelings associated with it, and all the worries that come along with it to. I feel regret for having slipped up and then when I wake up it's like I just relived it all over again. You know how dreams can feel real, or at least the feelings that happened in them? I have these dreams every once in a while, which are both a blessing and a curse. It's a good reminder why I don't want to use again, but I feel like since my brain knows what it feels like to get high these dreams sort of tease me and say look what you're missing. Overall it brings up a lot of stress in my life to have these dreams, this is one reason I posted this thread.
I don't have a lot of money, I dont' see therapists or anything like that. I don't have health insurance so I can't go to rehab if I needed to. So to me right now the number one goal is prevention, preventing myself from falling down the same path I have taken before. AA/NA is an organization that I think helps to accomplish this task. It's all about prevention. If you can keep from picking up the pipe, or a drink then you have won the most important part of the battle. Once that happens then, at least for me, it's too late. So I choose to focus on trying to find ways to keep myself from doing these things I used to do. It's a constant battle and one that is never going to be won, but I have to keep on fighting. I know some people here hate AA for whatever reason. But I would hope that they can also respect that it does help some people. If you don't want to share, that's fine. I will share and people can read it, and post pictures of poop in response if they want. But it helps me to talk about it, and so I do it. i like this forum and so I thought we could help each other out in being sober, at least sober from the things we cannot control. Smoke pot or drink, or whatever. If you can control it I could care less, really. But when people have difficulty controlling taking substances that cause serious life problems, I don't think it's that weird to hold a hand out and say, at the very least, we are hear to listen. I am going to be respectful and can only hope people will return the favor, thanks.
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These two posters do seem to take alcohol and drugs very lightly. It is not funny.
I don't have vast experience with AA/NA but a limited exposure. In my brief time
with AA, I learned that it does help the alcoholic and his family recover from a seemingly
hopeless state of affairs.
You can just see the evidence in there faces.
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I know exactly what you are talking about. Thank you so much for your input T Rex.
I have been thinking a lot in relations to spirituality and sobriety lately. I wonder at times, does God want me to be sober? Then I question if God really wanted me to be sober, why are there addictive drugs in the first place? Am I being tested? I know that I want to experience life as clearly as I can, and not be under the influence all the time. I don't want to avoid the entire world, but at the same time I have difficulty remaining sober for some reason. I have been through every kind of therapy and rehab there is when younger, and I still have very strong urges despite knowing the consequences. I know I'm not chemically addicted anymore because it's been a while since I've used, but the urges remain and it remains a difficult struggle.
I put my favorite slogan of AA in my signature because it means a lot to me. I can't look into my future and say I will never use again, honestly, because I don't know if that's true. I will try my best though, and if or when I fall off the horse I will get right back on and try again. Sometimes when it becomes difficult I pray that I can control myself, because the ability to do so feels like it is outside of me sometimes. I want to believe that God wants me to remain sober, because this gives me information. I believe God would want me to experience and see his creation through the clearest eyes possible, and appreciate all the universe in it's magnificent glory. I have been humbled by my own inability to do things others find so easy like control my usage of drugs and alcohol, and illogical as it is the solution escapes me even now. I have structured my life in a way that I am not a part of any party scene, and I don't have friends that use anymore. When it comes to sobriety sometimes my best friend is God because he is always there to listen, and I know and feel deep down that even as minuscule and unimportant I am in the scheme of the universe, God still cares.
I put up this thread in hopes people would find it and maybe realize that there are people who also struggle and are willing to help, but more important they are willing to listen. If anybody wants to post in this thread about their struggles with addiction and substance abuse, I am here to listen. If God exists, and I honestly believe God does exist without doubt, then I have to believe that although sometimes it feels like nobody is paying attention or cares, that somewhere on some level there is a part of us all that knows we are all cared about in the end. I am trying hard to become the person I know I can be, and this is one of my hardest struggles and has been my entire life. Please feel free to share about your own experiences, whoever is reading this, and remember you are not alone.
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If God wanted you to remain sober, grape juice wouldn't ferment and alcohol would be hard to distill.
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If God wanted you to remain sober, grape juice wouldn't ferment and alcohol would be hard to distill.
That's a good point, and I thought about that myself many times before. Thanks for your input in this thread, it is appreciated.
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Pile of Dead Kids wrote:
If God wanted you to remain sober, grape juice wouldn't ferment and alcohol would be hard to distill.
If God wanted me to remain sober, I would simply remain sober. I am not after all, more powerful than God.
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I'm not telling anybody what to say, or what not to say. I did ask politely. This forum has thousands of threads and anybody can post a new one. I was just asking politely if people could keep the negativity in this thread to a minimum. I think if people want to help support each other in sobriety that's a good thing. If people who went through abusive programs have PTSD like you said, then they might also have issues with drug abuse/addiction. There are many threads dedicated to debating the usefulness of AA, this thread is not one of them.
Yes, it's a message board with thousands of threads, but it states very clearly that it is an OPEN forum.....meaning that anyone can say what they want. That's kind of the purpose of a discussion.
This thread is an online version of an AA meeting where people can share their experiences and maybe even offer help and morale support to other people going through a similar problem of addiction and alcoholism.
There are tons of those in support of AA.....why not go there?
I never once hinted or claimed I am trying to control what people say on fornits.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
But if people have some respect they might consider the people who suffer with addiction might want to communicate minus the heated politics and just talk openly.
Again...there are plenty of positive only Stepcraft forums. Go there if you only want to hear one side of the story. Here you at least get both sides.
This is an open free for all forum, I think one thread out of thousands and thousands discussing addiction will not harm the overall forum in any way. Chips are a tool to have a goal, and a sense of accomplishment. I will design some and post them eventually. Then people can choose to use their fornits chip as their avatar if they so choose.
This is not a fucking Stepcraft meeting.
Like I said, if this bothers some people, they are free to post about it. Yes, you can post here. Nobody can stop you.
Gee.....thanks for your permission. ::)
But think about it for a second. If you want to have a respectful conversation, then you must also respect other posters. I have been drawn into the negativity on fornits and regret it. I now choose to have respectful conversations, and I will simply ignore the childish postings and people who are unable or unwilling to speak like adults. Would anybody here burst into a real AA meeting and say the things that are posted here?
No, because we respect their decision to join a cult if they choose. As you said...this is an OPEN forum....meaning that anyone can say anything they want.
I doubt it, so I am simply asking for the same respect you already give to AA in real life.
I respect AA by not going to the meetings.
I don't hold grudges, .
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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If you respect AA meetings in real life by not going, why not do the same and not click on this thread? I'm not saying I don't enjoy your posts, but it makes me wonder why it is so offensive to put this post up among thousands of other threads. I post it here because other people might have substance abuse issues if they were sent to treatment as a teenager. I believe, as a group, that people who went to treatment so young probably have more issues than just the regular population. I needed to let people know that not everyone here is hostile to recovery, and there are people here willing to listen if they want to share.
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If you respect AA meetings in real life by not going, why not do the same and not click on this thread? I'm not saying I don't enjoy your posts, but it makes me wonder why it is so offensive to put this post up among thousands of other threads. I post it here because other people might have substance abuse issues if they were sent to treatment as a teenager. I believe, as a group, that people who went to treatment so young probably have more issues than just the regular population. I needed to let people know that not everyone here is hostile to recovery, and there are people here willing to listen if they want to share.
We don't like what you and Whooter say in the other threads, but we don't bar you from commenting on them because we're not afraid to hear the other side.
And I post in the Stepcraft threads because other people might have substance abuse issues and AA is, IMO, a sham and will do more harm (see Valliant's study) than good.
Besides....I thought Fornits was/is so insignificant that nobody pays any attention. :eek: :seg:
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I can't and never attempted "to bar" anyone from posting in this thread. I just asked politely if people could be respectful and that's it. I am trying to follow these same considerations myself from now on, no matter what thread I post in. I mostly post in threads I start now, anyways. People come into those threads and post disgusting pictures of poop and violence. Is this not an attempt to silence the conversation? I think the anti treatment people here are much less open to an honest conversation than me, or Whooter.
Like I said, you are of course free to post here, obviously. I don't have the power to stop anybody from posting here, that is just a fact and I can't change that. Even if I could I wouldn't. All I simply asked was if people wanted to debate AA, we could do it in one of the many threads that existed. I was attempting to create a positive environment here so that people could feel comfortable to share about their issues with sobriety, and what helped them deal with it. I think there is enough political fighting threads, I'm trying to create something different. Obviously this approach didn't work, I'll try something new the next time. Thanks for your post, as always, its much appreciated.
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MEETING ADJOURNED!!
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SUCK IT has some sort of personality or mood disorder with wild swings from one extreme to the other. He spent all day a couple of days ago creating threads about how "DJ is a child rapist" but now has swung the pendulum to the other extreme - oh so polite and accommodating. Maybe this is the no meds/meds cycle.
At the least this cat is full of shit and a troll, but if he were to be believed at face value, he has a serious mental problem or problems.
Either way, you decide.
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People come into those threads and post disgusting pictures of poop and violence.
For what it's worth, I hate those too.
Like I said, you are of course free to post here, obviously. I don't have the power to stop anybody from posting here, that is just a fact and I can't change that. Even if I could I wouldn't. All I simply asked was if people wanted to debate AA, we could do it in one of the many threads that existed. I was attempting to create a positive environment here so that people could feel comfortable to share about their issues with sobriety, and what helped them deal with it. I think there is enough political fighting threads, I'm trying to create something different. Obviously this approach didn't work, I'll try something new the next time. Thanks for your post, as always, its much appreciated.
Since Fornits is so "insignificant", why not start your own site where you could reach more marks..er...alkies.
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Because I want to hear opinions from all spectrum of this debate, I find it much more interesting. I also appreciate that this forum is open and not moderated and my posts are not edited or deleted. It's a place I can be completely honest without fear of censorship, and I enjoy this privilege very much.
All I was trying to create with this thread was a discussion, not about the merits of AA or debate it's effectiveness. More structured like an AA meeting, or if you dislike AA, just like a group of friends who have had issues with substance abuse and choose to discuss it on a serious level, what works for them, what doesn't. Why do they think they are addicts, alcoholics. Sometimes I get tired of discussing the politics of issues, and prefer to hear human stories and experiences. That was my only point in starting this thread. like I said, I think I failed. I'll try again in some other way, eventually. Thanks for posting.
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Because I want to hear opinions from all spectrum of this debate, I find it much more interesting. I also appreciate that this forum is open and not moderated and my posts are not edited or deleted. It's a place I can be completely honest without fear of censorship, and I enjoy this privilege very much.
Don't you see how that's contradictory to what you're trying to do?
All I was trying to create with this thread was a discussion, not about the merits of AA or debate it's effectiveness. More structured like an AA meeting, or if you dislike AA, just like a group of friends who have had issues with substance abuse and choose to discuss it on a serious level, what works for them, what doesn't. Why do they think they are addicts, alcoholics. Sometimes I get tired of discussing the politics of issues, and prefer to hear human stories and experiences. That was my only point in starting this thread. like I said, I think I failed. I'll try again in some other way, eventually. Thanks for posting.
I have no problem with people discussing trying to quit using and I've always said that AA as ONLY a support group (no big book, no 12&12, and NO sponsors), isn't necessarily a bad thing....but when you start throwing pseudo-cults in the mix, you're gonna get negative reactions.
And I must say, I'm somewhat confused......you've been quite the asshole yourself, but lately not so much. It's appreciated. At least by me.
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I do recognize the contradictions in my last post, saying that I enjoy the diversity of opinions but please don't post your AA opinions in this thread. All I was trying to do here was create a thread where people can talk about addiction issues in a non political kind of format. I think it came across wrong or something, I will try again in a new thread eventually. So everyone feel free to post whatever you want here, the 'meeting' is officially adjourned.
I'm trying to be respectful. I know that in order to get respect you must give it first, so I'm putting that into practice. I'm not on medications. I don't go to psychiatrists so I don't have any diagnosed mental disorders. I just get tired of fighting with people. I'm only here to offer my own opinions. I'm not going to debate with people in a heated way anymore about things. I'd rather just put up my opinions, and let people decide how they want to react to it. I have accepted that people might dismiss what I say, not believe it, or ridicule me. I don't really mind either way. From now on I am going to ignore posts that I feel are hostile or negative and try to focus on responding to people who are open to have a real conversation. At the same time I am going to try to keep my posts from being hostile or negative as well.
One of my favorite movies of all time is "Contact". One of my favorite parts of the movie is when Jodie Fosters character is talking to the scientist who stole her position and get to go on the journey instead of her.
David Drumlin: I know you must think this is all very unfair. Maybe that's an understatement. What you don't know is I agree. I wish the world was a place where fair was the bottom line, where the kind of idealism you showed at the hearing was rewarded, not taken advantage of. Unfortunately, we don't live in that world.
Ellie Arroway: Funny, I've always believed that the world is what we make of it.
So although I viewed fornits as hostile, I am going to attempt to 'create the forum I want to post in' and follow the golden rule, and see how that goes. I don't want to be dragged down by negativity and fighting, because the only person it hurts is me. Thanks for your posts, they are always appreciated and welcome .
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So then , dont go away mad, just go away.
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Because I want to hear opinions from all spectrum of this debate, I find it much more interesting. I also appreciate that this forum is open and not moderated and my posts are not edited or deleted. It's a place I can be completely honest without fear of censorship, and I enjoy this privilege very much.
Don't you see how that's contradictory to what you're trying to do?
All I was trying to create with this thread was a discussion, not about the merits of AA or debate it's effectiveness. More structured like an AA meeting, or if you dislike AA, just like a group of friends who have had issues with substance abuse and choose to discuss it on a serious level, what works for them, what doesn't. Why do they think they are addicts, alcoholics. Sometimes I get tired of discussing the politics of issues, and prefer to hear human stories and experiences. That was my only point in starting this thread. like I said, I think I failed. I'll try again in some other way, eventually. Thanks for posting.
I have no problem with people discussing trying to quit using and I've always said that AA as ONLY a support group (no big book, no 12&12, and NO sponsors), isn't necessarily a bad thing....but when you start throwing pseudo-cults in the mix, you're gonna get negative reactions.
And I must say, I'm somewhat confused......you've been quite the asshole yourself, but lately not so much. It's appreciated. At least by me.
Let me see, delusional one. Do you ever see your abusive side here or is it always someone else who forced you to be a asshole.
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Because I want to hear opinions from all spectrum of this debate, I find it much more interesting. I also appreciate that this forum is open and not moderated and my posts are not edited or deleted. It's a place I can be completely honest without fear of censorship, and I enjoy this privilege very much.
Don't you see how that's contradictory to what you're trying to do?
All I was trying to create with this thread was a discussion, not about the merits of AA or debate it's effectiveness. More structured like an AA meeting, or if you dislike AA, just like a group of friends who have had issues with substance abuse and choose to discuss it on a serious level, what works for them, what doesn't. Why do they think they are addicts, alcoholics. Sometimes I get tired of discussing the politics of issues, and prefer to hear human stories and experiences. That was my only point in starting this thread. like I said, I think I failed. I'll try again in some other way, eventually. Thanks for posting.
I have no problem with people discussing trying to quit using and I've always said that AA as ONLY a support group (no big book, no 12&12, and NO sponsors), isn't necessarily a bad thing....but when you start throwing pseudo-cults in the mix, you're gonna get negative reactions.
And I must say, I'm somewhat confused......you've been quite the asshole yourself, but lately not so much. It's appreciated. At least by me.
Let me see, delusional one. Do you ever see your abusive side here or is it always someone else who forced you to be a asshole.
If you can read, you'll see that I said that I was a timid and shy person before going in. At Straight I was taught to be a bitch. You couldn't progress in your phases unless you were a total bitch, confronting and screaming at other phasers. That's why I was on 1st phase for 8 months straight (no pun intended).
And it's "an" asshole, not "a" asshole.
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Because I want to hear opinions from all spectrum of this debate, I find it much more interesting. I also appreciate that this forum is open and not moderated and my posts are not edited or deleted. It's a place I can be completely honest without fear of censorship, and I enjoy this privilege very much.
Don't you see how that's contradictory to what you're trying to do?
All I was trying to create with this thread was a discussion, not about the merits of AA or debate it's effectiveness. More structured like an AA meeting, or if you dislike AA, just like a group of friends who have had issues with substance abuse and choose to discuss it on a serious level, what works for them, what doesn't. Why do they think they are addicts, alcoholics. Sometimes I get tired of discussing the politics of issues, and prefer to hear human stories and experiences. That was my only point in starting this thread. like I said, I think I failed. I'll try again in some other way, eventually. Thanks for posting.
I have no problem with people discussing trying to quit using and I've always said that AA as ONLY a support group (no big book, no 12&12, and NO sponsors), isn't necessarily a bad thing....but when you start throwing pseudo-cults in the mix, you're gonna get negative reactions.
And I must say, I'm somewhat confused......you've been quite the asshole yourself, but lately not so much. It's appreciated. At least by me.
Let me see, delusional one. Do you ever see your abusive side here or is it always someone else who forced you to be a asshole.
If you can read, you'll see that I said that I was a timid and shy person before going in. At Straight I was taught to be a bitch. You couldn't progress in your phases unless you were a total bitch, confronting and screaming at other phasers. That's why I was on 1st phase for 8 months straight (no pun intended).
And it's "an" asshole, not "a" asshole.
Anne I am talking about your personality on fornits, "now" (present day).
I enjoy saying, ("a" asshole). Thanks.
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SUCK IT wrote;
All I was trying to create with this thread was a discussion, not about the merits of AA or debate it's effectiveness. More structured like an AA meeting
AT least I tried to play along.
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Sometimes I have dreams, that seem very real. In these dreams I end up using again, drugs that I have had difficulties with. I had one last night smoking meth, I know in the dream I shouldn't be doing it, but I do it anyways. Then I get high, and I feel high in the dream and all the feelings associated with it, and all the worries that come along with it to. I feel regret for having slipped up and then when I wake up it's like I just relived it all over again. You know how dreams can feel real, or at least the feelings that happened in them? I have these dreams every once in a while, which are both a blessing and a curse. It's a good reminder why I don't want to use again, but I feel like since my brain knows what it feels like to get high these dreams sort of tease me and say look what you're missing. Overall it brings up a lot of stress in my life to have these dreams, this is one reason I posted this thread.
I don't have a lot of money, I dont' see therapists or anything like that. I don't have health insurance so I can't go to rehab if I needed to. So to me right now the number one goal is prevention, preventing myself from falling down the same path I have taken before. AA/NA is an organization that I think helps to accomplish this task. It's all about prevention. If you can keep from picking up the pipe, or a drink then you have won the most important part of the battle. Once that happens then, at least for me, it's too late. So I choose to focus on trying to find ways to keep myself from doing these things I used to do. It's a constant battle and one that is never going to be won, but I have to keep on fighting. I know some people here hate AA for whatever reason. But I would hope that they can also respect that it does help some people. If you don't want to share, that's fine. I will share and people can read it, and post pictures of poop in response if they want. But it helps me to talk about it, and so I do it. i like this forum and so I thought we could help each other out in being sober, at least sober from the things we cannot control. Smoke pot or drink, or whatever. If you can control it I could care less, really. But when people have difficulty controlling taking substances that cause serious life problems, I don't think it's that weird to hold a hand out and say, at the very least, we are hear to listen. I am going to be respectful and can only hope people will return the favor, thanks.
I have heard other people in 12 step meetings talk about dreaming of using. I think a part of it might be the idea that what you are dealing with is a disease as opposed to a bad habit. I dont know if it helps you to look at it this way but drug taking like eating junk food is a choice. If on a day to day basis you choose not to do it, in the same way you choose not to steal or not to hit people that piss you off you wont. If one day you do use, then rather than feeling convinced that you have fallen off some wagon, you can always just make the choice to stop again and maybe have a think about what gave you the urge and how better to deal with it. Remember 12 steps are not the ONLY answer. Hope this helps
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reformed12stepper,
I am so happy that you have reformed and found that you no longer have to abuse drugs and/or alcohol. Many never seem to get the answer that you have so graciously received and die a agonizing death.
Watching someone die from alcohol poisoning, cirrhosis of the liver ect...is a sad experience.
Drug dreams, as they are called are very real for the addict, early on in his recovery. They are very vivid and scary for the individual having them.
I am not sure what your point was concerning whether addiction is a disease or habit and if one or the other has anything to do with dreaming about using drugs. Please elaborate more on this, if you can.
I agree with you that the 12 steps are not the only way to recover.
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"God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference."
If only.
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None-Ya,
Hey thanks for the serenity prayer. One of my favorites. You are right, "if only".
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reformed12stepper,
I am so happy that you have reformed and found that you no longer have to abuse drugs and/or alcohol. Many never seem to get the answer that you have so graciously received and die a agonizing death.
Watching someone die from alcohol poisoning, cirrhosis of the liver ect...is a sad experience.
Drug dreams, as they are called are very real for the addict, early on in his recovery. They are very vivid and scary for the individual having them.
I am not sure what your point was concerning whether addiction is a disease or habit and if one or the other has anything to do with dreaming about using drugs. Please elaborate more on this, if you can.
I agree with you that the 12 steps are not the only way to recover.
I guess what i was saying is that sometimes the idea that you have some disease that you can never be cured of is counter productive and may add to any fears someone has of using unnecessarily. Thus they could be more likely to still have nightmares after a prolonged period of absence. Because if after detoxing etc you start to view drug abuse as a bad habit or even negative behavior you are in the drivers seat. You can decide to not take drugs, just as you regularly decide not to steal or not to beat your spouse. If you have a disease you are at it's mercy. I am not pretending to be some kind of guru on this topic it is just how i have come to see it.
I too had quite a few nasty dreams early on in the process. I think when you first stop using you have a lot going on and it is a stressful time.
I am glad too that I have gotten past that stage of my life. I am a pretty lucky guy. One thing that has sustained me is my relationships with family and friends. Not feeling alone is a big help. If you are someone who is isolated socially then I would suggest taking up a hobby that is social like a sport or amateur theatre. Other people can be a real comfort. if you are the flinty eyed solitary type just ignore this last paragraph :seg:
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reformed12stepper,
Thanks for more insight there. I think the people you are referring to who have no one in there life at the exact time they get sober, use AA as a hobby (so to speak) it fills the huge void left by their destructive life style.
AA does not have to be a life time choice, many fellow members do not go to AA on a regular bases as they once did. They were able to get sober and sustain the sobriety, made some friends, built some character and gradually moved on. These folks will check in from time to time but it is not mandatory for them to stay sober nor do they see it that way.
AA is a choice and how you go about making your decisions while attending AA is critical in the lasting opinion you will have of your time there. You are responsible for your success in AA, not the others you meet. This is your decision.
12, you talk about the freedom to make decisions and so forth concerning drug addictions and alcoholism, there is a point in both afflictions that medically they can no longer make a "free choice". There many decisions we can make, I agree but I also know those same free decisions can also be taken away.
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reformed12stepper,
Thanks for more insight there. I think the people you are referring to who have no one in there life at the exact time they get sober, use AA as a hobby (so to speak) it fills the huge void left by their destructive life style.
AA does not have to be a life time choice, many fellow members do not go to AA on a regular bases as they once did. They were able to get sober and sustain the sobriety, made some friends, built some character and gradually moved on. These folks will check in from time to time but it is not mandatory for them to stay sober nor do they see it that way.
AA is a choice and how you go about making your decisions while attending AA is critical in the lasting opinion you will have of your time there. You are responsible for your success in AA, not the others you meet. This is your decision.
12, you talk about the freedom to make decisions and so forth concerning drug addictions and alcoholism, there is a point in both afflictions that medically they can no longer make a "free choice". There many decisions we can make, I agree but I also know those same free decisions can also be taken away.
this is certainly the case for some. But many people that do have other supports are referred to AA anyway. Personally i see a benefit in joining orgainzations that are not focused on the problem. This way the focus is not continually on what you are trying to give up. it is on the sport or hobby etc.
I dispute the idea that taking drugs is never not a choice. Dont get me wrong it is a hard thing to give up. But you always have a choice. about giving up. Afterall you made the choice to develop a dependency. The therapist who worked with me when i got treatment had previously worked a this place
http://www.stgregoryctr.com/ (http://www.stgregoryctr.com/) they utilized what they call a life process model
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-proce ... _addiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-process_model_of_addiction)
Not eveyone at the rehab i attended was into this but i did great with it.
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For me personally I believe addiction is closer to a disease than a choice. Using for the first time is a choice, after that it becomes very difficult and the more it goes on, the less and less it feels like a choice. Eventually whatever choice existed, is no longer an option and the only choices are where/how will I be able to use next? I have friends who seem to be able to use drugs on the weekends, and go back to work on Monday like nothing happened. I envy them. But if I start on a friday night, I won't stop until I run out of money, or what usually happens is whoever I'm buying from puts a stop to it. I've had several different dealers flat out refuse to sell me more, and every time that happens I know something is wrong. When your drug dealer is telling you no, sorry buddy, but you got to stop for a few days before I'll sell you any more then you realize you have issues.
So yes I suppose it is a choice. The choice of whether I'll use that first time, and to remain in the right mind set to make the right choice everyday things like AA help. Even the corny sayings help a lot, and just the idea of that AA is out there and there are people who will help. Its sort of a safety net, like a life jacket. I don't plan on falling off the boat, most people on boats do not. But you wear the life jacket just in case you do fall off, even if you think you can swim. Because it might just keep you afloat in your most desperate hour. I know you can't take somebody's blood and diagnose them with "addiction", but the term disease is accurate from my view because it's a lifelong issue that never really goes away (for me at least). Its like living with diabetes or psoriasis or something, you might not have symptoms, but every now and then you might have a flare up and need to treat it. i'm not trying to start an argument about it, just stating my opinion in my own personal experience with addiction issues.
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I have friends
False.
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reformed12stepper,
Thanks for more insight there. I think the people you are referring to who have no one in there life at the exact time they get sober, use AA as a hobby (so to speak) it fills the huge void left by their destructive life style.
AA does not have to be a life time choice, many fellow members do not go to AA on a regular bases as they once did. They were able to get sober and sustain the sobriety, made some friends, built some character and gradually moved on. These folks will check in from time to time but it is not mandatory for them to stay sober nor do they see it that way.
AA is a choice and how you go about making your decisions while attending AA is critical in the lasting opinion you will have of your time there. You are responsible for your success in AA, not the others you meet. This is your decision.
12, you talk about the freedom to make decisions and so forth concerning drug addictions and alcoholism, there is a point in both afflictions that medically they can no longer make a "free choice". There many decisions we can make, I agree but I also know those same free decisions can also be taken away.
this is certainly the case for some. But many people that do have other supports are referred to AA anyway. Personally i see a benefit in joining orgainzations that are not focused on the problem. This way the focus is not continually on what you are trying to give up. it is on the sport or hobby etc.
I dispute the idea that taking drugs is never not a choice. Dont get me wrong it is a hard thing to give up. But you always have a choice. about giving up. Afterall you made the choice to develop a dependency. The therapist who worked with me when i got treatment had previously worked a this place
http://www.stgregoryctr.com/ (http://www.stgregoryctr.com/) they utilized what they call a life process model
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-proce ... _addiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-process_model_of_addiction)
Not eveyone at the rehab i attended was into this but i did great with it.
Very interesting article, thanks reform 12. I do believe this "life process" can work, I believe I know a few folks who have benefited from something similar.
I do have say that disputing the consumption of drugs as a choice when it reaches the critical stages is not wise on your part, reform 12. People do reach critical consumption levels where mentally they can not rationally see a choice.
Now this is not many and I am sure that you never experienced this level for any length of time but leave the door open.
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I am convinced that addiction runs in families. Some people can stop on Sunday night and others just need to keep going until they run out of money. I saw this in College and all throughout life. I can look at all my family and extended family and we have drinkers and druggers. They are “all” functional but on the occasion that they needed to abstain because of pregnancy or needed to quit to support a spouse or because of a reaction to a medication….. I have a few relatives who drank everyday of their lives for decades and then needed to stop for various reasons…… Each and every time they were able to do it on their own without outside help and never struggled to stay clean down the road.
On the other hand I have inlaws who are plagued with addiction issues to the point where every member of the family ended up in rehab to one extent or another and struggle on a daily basis. They are not weaker minded or different in any other way. Some are successful and others are not but the addiction strikes them equally. They cant quit smoking, drinking, gambling, drugging. It runs right to their core.
In my experience it seems to be contained to certain blood lines.
For those cursed with addiction issues I think it can be classified as a disease.
...
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For me personally I believe addiction is closer to a disease than a choice. Using for the first time is a choice, after that it becomes very difficult and the more it goes on, the less and less it feels like a choice. Eventually whatever choice existed, is no longer an option and the only choices are where/how will I be able to use next? I have friends who seem to be able to use drugs on the weekends, and go back to work on Monday like nothing happened. I envy them. But if I start on a friday night, I won't stop until I run out of money, or what usually happens is whoever I'm buying from puts a stop to it. I've had several different dealers flat out refuse to sell me more, and every time that happens I know something is wrong. When your drug dealer is telling you no, sorry buddy, but you got to stop for a few days before I'll sell you any more then you realize you have issues.
So yes I suppose it is a choice. The choice of whether I'll use that first time, and to remain in the right mind set to make the right choice everyday things like AA help. Even the corny sayings help a lot, and just the idea of that AA is out there and there are people who will help. Its sort of a safety net, like a life jacket. I don't plan on falling off the boat, most people on boats do not. But you wear the life jacket just in case you do fall off, even if you think you can swim. Because it might just keep you afloat in your most desperate hour. I know you can't take somebody's blood and diagnose them with "addiction", but the term disease is accurate from my view because it's a lifelong issue that never really goes away (for me at least). Its like living with diabetes or psoriasis or something, you might not have symptoms, but every now and then you might have a flare up and need to treat it. i'm not trying to start an argument about it, just stating my opinion in my own personal experience with addiction issues.
I agree that some people are more likely to form dangerous habits and would even say that this is why people like you and I suck it should stay away from drugs. But there are some people who struggle with weight issues and others who spend too much. Some Gamble. None are making a rational choice because if they were they would know that they need to be a healthy weight to live or that they could loose everything if their debts pile up on top of them. Such people may benefit from counselling some may even do well taking some time out and getting some intensive therapy, but i dont think that what they have is a disease. I am glad that AA is a life jacket for you but to steal your metaphore a life jacket cant save you if you don't learn how to swim in emergency conditions. If you can swim you will get to the shore yourself
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BP, I think you will find some great insight here on this AA/NA thread. Give it a go.